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Author Topic: SkepsiDyne Integrated Node - The Bitcoin Mining Company  (Read 92811 times)
filharvey
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June 25, 2011, 12:01:24 AM
 #341

The one thing you would also need to consider is the hardware to run the cards, but that is cheap in comparrision. so would need some hard cash coming in.

Also this could eat through the remaining ipo shares with an extra what 20 cards?

Phil
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filharvey
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June 25, 2011, 12:27:13 AM
 #342

Actually thinking about it more you should not offer to purchase any equipment in this manner.

As mentioned earlier it basically reduces value in previously sold shares. that means the current people who hold 1400 shares or there abouts will see a significant reduction in dividends.

I certainly would take advantage place if u offered it but I think, U are basically selling shares at under (ipo value) / basically ignoring the ipo conditions. And this is the same with the buyout offer.

Btw what level of voting on shares are u taking notice on? Ie if u get only 10% voting on a motion Are u listening and if not which way are company decisions going?

Phil
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June 25, 2011, 12:31:02 AM
 #343

The one thing you would also need to consider is the hardware to run the cards, but that is cheap in comparrision. so would need some hard cash coming in.

Also this could eat through the remaining ipo shares with an extra what 20 cards?

Phil

20 cards at  ~$2000 per card.  3391 shares are left in the IPO, which is ~2500 BTC, which is about $40k.

Actually thinking about it more you should not offer to purchase any equipment in this manner.

As mentioned earlier it basically reduces value in previously sold shares. that means the current people who hold 1400 shares or there abouts will see a significant reduction in dividends.

I certainly would take place if u offered it but I think. U are basically selling shares at under (ipo value) / behind the ipo. And this is the same with the buyout offer.

Btw what level of voting on shares are u taking notice on? Ie if u get only 10% voting on a motion Are u listening and if not which way are company decisions going?

Phil

I don't understand how people would be "losing" dividends (edit: as long as the shares were issued based on the value of the hardware being traded for), by that logic I should stop selling all IPO shares.

My level of voting is that I get however many shares of the IPO have sold + 1 votes, which means I have the final decision in all matters.  I do listen to shareholders however, otherwise I wouldn't bother making any motions.  I appreciate the opinions and ideas of the shareholders, they often come up with good ideas and solutions to problems.

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June 25, 2011, 12:45:07 AM
 #344

I certainly would take advantage place if u offered it but I think, U are basically selling shares at under (ipo value) / basically ignoring the ipo conditions. And this is the same with the buyout offer.
If he prices the shares at ~BTC market value converted to USD and then converted to a fair aftermarket value for each card, this should be a quite fair deal for everybody involved (just be aware that the dishwara deal is NOT fair by any means).

My level of voting is that I get however many shares of the IPO have sold + 1 votes, which means I have the final decision in all matters.  I do listen to shareholders however, otherwise I wouldn't bother making any motions.  I appreciate the opinions and ideas of the shareholders, they often come up with good ideas and solutions to problems.
No, you need 51% of shares and votes, not 50% + 1 share. Read your own contract!

If you need to have 2 BTC, 1 BTC + 1 Satoshi isn't enough as well, right?

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filharvey
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June 25, 2011, 01:16:20 AM
 #345

K when I say 20 cards I mean if u are selling hash rate as u plan to. U are saying 3.8gh/s is worth 900+ shares.

That means. 6990 is worth a min of 160 shares. Hence a $1800 valuation at The current offer rate.

When I talk about losing dividends shareholders like me who bought on the idea u were building machines not purchasing power (which is not mentioned in the contract), bought shares assuming that the ipo money would be used effectively. U are talking about $15k of shares being offered for 3.8gh/s. That is just wrong for he initial investors ( yes BTC price has changed but we are still talking or should be talking best investment for share holds not badly run competitors). You should be expecting around 10-15gh/s for thos number of shares at the current market price of BTC. so basically people oh have shares are now getting a lower rate of Mh/s due to yourndown grade policy.

1400 shares currently sold got us what 8-9gh/s. As per your graphs are showing.

Yup are now offering 900+ shares for 3.8gh/s. can u now see the difference?

I understand everyone wanting to sell out the ipo, but this is not the way to go.
 
As I have said if u want to cheat the ipo to get a higher hash rate, I will be willing to sell 6990's for shares but I think personally I would be gaining a don't he other share holders which is wrong..

as per voting level. U own 50% + 1 shares but what I means for an issue like this where shareholder value gets reduced will u just ignore the result. Wll u publish the voting? Etc...

This all concerns me as I purchased a new block of shares today.

Phil
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June 25, 2011, 01:29:01 AM
 #346

K when I say 20 cards I mean if u are selling hash rate as u plan to. U are saying 3.8gh/s is worth 900+ shares.

That means. 6990 is worth a min of 160 shares. Hence a $1800 valuation at The current offer rate.

When I talk about losing dividends shareholders like me who bought on the idea u were building machines not purchasing power (which is not mentioned in the contract), bought shares assuming that the ipo money would be used effectively. U are talking about $15k of shares being offered for 3.8gh/s. That is just wrong for he initial investors ( yes BTC price has changed but we are still talking or should be talking best investment for share holds not badly run competitors). You should be expecting around 10-15gh/s for thos number of shares at the current market price of BTC. so basically people oh have shares are now getting a lower rate of Mh/s due to yourndown grade policy.

1400 shares currently sold got us what 8-9gh/s. As per your graphs are showing.

Yup are now offering 900+ shares for 3.8gh/s. can u now see the difference?

I understand everyone wanting to sell out the ipo, but this is not the way to go.
 
As I have said if u want to cheat the ipo to get a higher hash rate, I will be willing to sell 6990's for shares but I think personally I would be gaining a don't he other share holders which is wrong..

as per voting level. U own 50% + 1 shares but what I means for an issue like this where shareholder value gets reduced will u just ignore the result. Wll u publish the voting? Etc...

This all concerns me as I purchased a new block of shares today.

Phil

Due to the feedback from shareholders, that is no longer going to be the deal, so rest assured we will not be giving 950+ shares for 3.8 Ghash/sec.  What Sukrim suggested was a fair trade in shares for cards, which would more or less simply take out the steps where I transfer the BTC off of GLBSE, put them on an exchange, transfer them to Dwolla, transfer them to my bank account, then spend them on cards.

I actually own over 8000 shares so the point is rather moot.  As I said before, I will not ignore shareholder wishes unless I think that they are not in the best interest of the company.  I'm pretty sure vote results can be seen using the tally command, but that could be just for the person who created the motion, I'm not sure, but either way, I do publish the results of votes.

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June 25, 2011, 01:38:17 AM
 #347

I actually own over 8000 shares so the point is rather moot.

You bought around 3000 of the 4999 sold to the public? How is that possible?
filharvey
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June 25, 2011, 01:40:47 AM
 #348

I actually own over 8000 shares so the point is rather moot.

Sorry can u repeat that comment???

Phil
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June 25, 2011, 01:45:33 AM
 #349

This is getting really out of hand guys... I have over 8000 shares in my portfolio because only 1600 out of 10000 have sold.

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June 25, 2011, 01:52:58 AM
 #350

This is getting really out of hand guys... I have over 8000 shares in my portfolio because only 1600 out of 10000 have sold.

OH, I see. Because they're in the same account, you'd be voting with all shares on the account, so as far as voting is concerned, you have 8k+ shares.

My mistake.
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June 25, 2011, 02:00:51 AM
 #351

This is getting really out of hand guys... I have over 8000 shares in my portfolio because only 1600 out of 10000 have sold.

Sorry but in an ipo shares which are not sold are unissued, that means they cannot be used for voting rights etc...

I think we have just found out an issue with this market?

Phil
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June 25, 2011, 02:10:23 AM
 #352

This is getting really out of hand guys... I have over 8000 shares in my portfolio because only 1600 out of 10000 have sold.

Sorry but in an ipo shares which are not sold are unissued, that means they cannot be used for voting rights etc...

I think we have just found out an issue with this market?

Phil

If it became an issue (it hasn't yet) I would take down 99 shares of the IPO so I would then officially have 5100 shares, or 51%.  The point is that it hasn't been an issue and probably won't be an issue, which is why this whole discussion is completely moot.

But you understand that we won't be selling 1000 shares / 4 Ghash/sec, right?

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June 25, 2011, 02:22:35 AM
 #353

The amount of shares DISHWARA receives should be based on the equipment we actually need (and we will take/use) and the hashing power of that equipment.

If we need some equipment for something other than generating hashes, I think Tawsix should purchase it with some generated funds and not IPO shares (perhaps funds from selling said shares though).

If we give DISHWARA X shares, we shouldn't be able to get more hashing capability from (X*.75) BTC worth purchased equipment. And as I said before, the amount of shares should be based  on
  • Hashing Power of Assets
  • NOT the Value of Assets
  • Equipment Acquired That Helps Generate More Hashes

If we don't need an i5, should we take it? I don't see a problem as long as it either helps us generate hashes OR it isn't tacked on top of the shares we pay for hashing capabilities.

i agree it should be based mainly on hashing power of the assets, 10k seems like too much.

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June 25, 2011, 02:24:29 AM
 #354

This is getting really out of hand guys... I have over 8000 shares in my portfolio because only 1600 out of 10000 have sold.

Sorry but in an ipo shares which are not sold are unissued, that means they cannot be used for voting rights etc...

I think we have just found out an issue with this market?

Phil

I think you're right.

Unissued IPO shares definitely shouldn't count in votes.

Tawsix
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June 25, 2011, 02:38:26 AM
 #355

It turns out that that was a lot of noise over nothing: the deal between dishwara and I fell through and he will continue his operation as before.

In other news, all parts for our next rig have shipped, and should arrive on schedule next week!  Hopefully we can get some more investors in soon and snag another rig.  Soon we'll be migrating from BTCmine to BTCguild and the mining pool that we're currently voting on.

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June 25, 2011, 11:29:29 AM
 #356

This is getting really out of hand guys... I have over 8000 shares in my portfolio because only 1600 out of 10000 have sold.

Sorry but in an ipo shares which are not sold are unissued, that means they cannot be used for voting rights etc...

I think we have just found out an issue with this market?

Phil

I think you're right.

Unissued IPO shares definitely shouldn't count in votes.
This can be solved by having 2 Accounts on GLBSE:
1 that issues shares and takes care of all the BTC coming in and going out (I'd call it "broker" account)
1 that holds shares that Tawsix (or the company owner if it's another BTC company) uses to actually buy these shares (or to at least transfer them from the "broker account") that are already paid off from his 50%.

The broker account then does not participate in voting.

What I find weird though: How would you, Tawsix, be able to buy 99 shares from the public shares _before_ buying all your "private" shares back?

Could we please have an overview over:
* # of shares to be sold to the public
* Public shares sold
* # of shares reserved for Tawsix
* Shares already paid for by Tawsix (via 50% margin and/or private money)
* Depts of Tawsix to the company (= number of shares not yet paid * 0.75 BTC)

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June 26, 2011, 04:15:17 AM
 #357

Could we please have an overview over:
* # of shares to be sold to the public
* Public shares sold
* # of shares reserved for Tawsix
* Shares already paid for by Tawsix (via 50% margin and/or private money)
* Depts of Tawsix to the company (= number of shares not yet paid * 0.75 BTC)

1. Undecided
2. 1645 as of 6/25/11@23:35 EST
3. Undecided
4. 438
5. Undecided

Update:  I just withdrew another 64 BTC from GLBSE from investments, so I'll be ordering another rig tonight!  It should arrive shortly after the first rig next week, which will bring us up to 11 rigs!

Also, I have an updated share contract that I would like to vote on.  The new contract is identical to the old, except it clears up the language so that you aren't "shareholders" in the company but rather partners in the company (I also removed language concerning officers and such, as this is not a corporation).  It also deals with the 51%/50% + 1 issue.    Here is the <terms> section:

Code:
The holder of this certificate (from here on known as a partner) is a holder of one share of the organisation(named elsewhere in this contract).
That is, the owners of these shares are the owners of the organisation, such that all assets held and profits earned
by the organisation are the property of the partners.

Each share entitles the partner to one vote in motions put forward by the organisation, such that the ownership
of 10 shares entitiles the owner to 10 votes, and so on.

Profits are the income remaining after expenses including operating costs, and research and development of new technologies or services,
and any action that the organisation see's nessecary to take part in.

All profits earned by the organisation will be paid to partners as a dividend, such that these profits will be divided equally among all shares.
Each share entitles the partner to one share of the organisations profits.

The issuer of the shares will reinvest all dividends recieved until such a time that all owned shares are paid for.

In the event of winding up of the organisation and liquidising of it's assets , after the payment of the organisations creditors,
the partners will be paid all remaining liquidity, divided equally among shares, such that one share entitles the partner
to a single share of liquidity.

The decision to wind up the organisation (and therefor liquidate it's assets) requires the approval of at least 50% + 1 of shares in a vote
on the issue in a motion.

A change in the organisations by laws (a link to which can be found elswhere in this contract) requires the approval of at least 50% + 1 of shares
in a vote on the issue in a motion.

Motions can be put forward for voting by 30% or more of shares, and require the vote of 50% + 1 or more ofshares to pass.

No partner is liable for the actions of this organisation.  No partner is liable for any debt that this organisation takes on.

The limit of liability of a partner is solely limited to the capital already invested in this organisation when this share was purchased,
and no further.

This doesn't change how the company operates, just clears up some legal loose ends.

In other news, the last difficulty increase has made it very clear the switch to BTCguild needs to be soon, at the very least in order to help curb some variance from being on a < 1 Thash/sec pool.  That will be the next project until the new rigs arrive.

Voting is still down, so I may end up reissuing the motion concerning our backup pool if it doesn't come back up by tomorrow.

I'm very excited, our computing power will be in the double digits by this time next week!

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June 26, 2011, 11:09:19 AM
 #358

I understand that next week hashing power of SIN will be 10+ Ghash/s, this is great !
I really like the concept of what you're doing and I bought SIN shares at GLBSE (which has a great new userfriendly webinterface btw).

But I have a question.

There are 10.000 certificates each 0.75 BTC.

When I buy 100 certificates = 75 BTC = US$ 1125.

Will my revenue be 1% of 10 Ghash/s = 100Mhash/s ?

I ask this because in the first posts you said:
Quote
Once again, I think it is important to stress that I will be striving to have investments pay for themselves in 4-8 months.
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June 26, 2011, 02:59:55 PM
 #359

I understand that next week hashing power of SIN will be 10+ Ghash/s, this is great !
I really like the concept of what you're doing and I bought SIN shares at GLBSE (which has a great new userfriendly webinterface btw).

But I have a question.

There are 10.000 certificates each 0.75 BTC.

When I buy 100 certificates = 75 BTC = US$ 1125.

Will my revenue be 1% of 10 Ghash/s = 100Mhash/s ?

I ask this because in the first posts you said:
Quote
Once again, I think it is important to stress that I will be striving to have investments pay for themselves in 4-8 months.

That is correct, you will own 1% of the company, 1% of the company's computing power, and 1% of profits made from it. 

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June 26, 2011, 04:11:44 PM
 #360

That is correct, you will own 1% of the company, 1% of the company's computing power, and 1% of profits made from it. 

And who gets the revenue of the unsold stocks ? I understand that you sold 1645+438 stocks.

Should my share not be 100 out of 1645+438 instead of 100 out of 10.000 ?

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