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Author Topic: SkepsiDyne Integrated Node - The Bitcoin Mining Company  (Read 93157 times)
Tawsix
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May 16, 2011, 12:19:41 AM
 #41

Here's my problem with what I'm reading.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't watch the whole video.

But right now only 4% of the payout goes to the investors, and 96% goes to you, due to the huge IPO.  I'd be much more interested in investing if your dividends matched the amount sold in the IPO.  With 405 Shares sold, you only collect 405 shares worth of dividends.  As more shares get sold, you get to match that, so you always get half.  Eventually, the IPO is sold out, and you still get half.

But now it feels to me like you're cheating a bit on the payout.  Not actual cheating, but you get a huge reward vs risk compared to the people putting money into the venture.  Yes I know the money doesn't go into your pocket, but it seems like you're paying off your paper debt too easily.


This is the plan, the dividends will always be split such that I am getting 1 share more worth of dividends than the investors.  I had this extrapolated to its conclusion of having all shares sold, I did not intend to keep 95% of dividends and distribute the rest.

Stock update: 496 shares have been sold so far, which means that only ~250 more are needed before operations begin.  I project that this will be met by the end of the week, especially if the current rate of selling continues.

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May 16, 2011, 01:21:05 AM
 #42

Here's my problem with what I'm reading.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't watch the whole video.

But right now only 4% of the payout goes to the investors, and 96% goes to you, due to the huge IPO.  I'd be much more interested in investing if your dividends matched the amount sold in the IPO.  With 405 Shares sold, you only collect 405 shares worth of dividends.  As more shares get sold, you get to match that, so you always get half.  Eventually, the IPO is sold out, and you still get half.

But now it feels to me like you're cheating a bit on the payout.  Not actual cheating, but you get a huge reward vs risk compared to the people putting money into the venture.  Yes I know the money doesn't go into your pocket, but it seems like you're paying off your paper debt too easily.


This is the plan, the dividends will always be split such that I am getting 1 share more worth of dividends than the investors.  I had this extrapolated to its conclusion of having all shares sold, I did not intend to keep 95% of dividends and distribute the rest.

Stock update: 496 shares have been sold so far, which means that only ~250 more are needed before operations begin.  I project that this will be met by the end of the week, especially if the current rate of selling continues.

Thanks for clearing that up.
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May 16, 2011, 03:37:31 PM
 #43

OK, I bit (and bought). One issue; the IPO is so large that initial liquidity for investors is tough.

Can anyone raise a vote? I'd like to vote that you limit the IPO to 1,000 shares to start; that's more than enough to get building and generating. We could then vote on a secondary capital raise.

How does GLBSE manage stuff like this? Nefario?

As a note, this 'half +1 share for me' is really confusing. Typically corporations issue a bunch of shares for cheap to founders, then go and sell extra shares; the ownership changes as the corporation sells more shares.

You are doing something hard to understand which is saying 'I will borrow enough from the corporation to  just barely keep control, and try and quickly pay it back.'

Better would be 'I have 5,000 shares, and I'll pay 3,800 BTC for them, later, I swear. I'm selling shares, up to 4999 of them (or I now suggest 1000) at .75BTC per and will dividend out everything over run-rate costs plus withholdings for miner growth.' Instead, we have a world in which your putative shares owned change as more are sold; confusing!

Doing it my way means, for instance, that early "angel" funders will get a better bite, that is, in a later capital raise, the price will hopefully go up, meaning the angels will get some equity appreciation. Also, people will understand and be able to debate whether or not you have priced the company fairly and properly. Right now, that calculation is sort of tough. As a side note, I would say a fair price for this sort of activity would be a fund-manager style price: 2% of gross capital utilized/20% of earnings, since you bring no capital to the picture. But, I bought anyway, so I hope you're successful!

Also, I feel bound to warn you that doing this in the US is without a doubt, highly illegal without filing a Reg. D, and the SEC will probably require you return any losses you incur to investors. I'm not a lawyer, just a startup entrepreneur. Tongue

I'm the CEO of CoinLab (www.coinlab.com) and the Executive Director of the Bitcoin Foundation, I will identify if I'm speaking for myself or one of the organizations when I post from this account.
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May 16, 2011, 05:45:58 PM
 #44

Can anyone raise a vote? I'd like to vote that you limit the IPO to 1,000 shares to start; that's more than enough to get building and generating. We could then vote on a secondary capital raise.

Even if we could raise a vote (according to the terms 30% would be required for that - I doubt that the GLBSE has rules for that in place though yet) - he owns 50%+1 share (+ a few thousand more shares) of the company and could easily deny the request.

Also as it looks you have to be the asset owner to raise votes, at least according to the documentation.

With the suggested 30 rigs @ 700MH/s a single share represents btw. 2.1 MH/s - at current difficulty that's 0.01341733 BTC/day - until that is reached however, it still might take a while, as these rigs have yet to be set up.

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Nefario
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May 17, 2011, 12:53:41 AM
 #45

With regards enforcing anything, GLBSE wont be able to do that until I implement smart contracts, and then it will enforce whatever the rules in the contract are.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
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May 17, 2011, 01:27:45 AM
 #46

With regards enforcing anything, GLBSE wont be able to do that until I implement smart contracts, and then it will enforce whatever the rules in the contract are.

By what mechanism? It seems you are limited to stopping specific shrares trading in case of a dispute.

Unless you have a private police force somewhere?

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May 17, 2011, 01:37:26 AM
 #47

With regards enforcing anything, GLBSE wont be able to do that until I implement smart contracts, and then it will enforce whatever the rules in the contract are.

By what mechanism? It seems you are limited to stopping specific shrares trading in case of a dispute.

Unless you have a private police force somewhere?

Smart contracts would be able to control the number of shares issued, voting(for example a shareholder being able to put forward a motion), whether funds raised can be released or not to the issuer, and other actions.

Of course they can't go after someone after they've run off with the bitcoin.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
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May 17, 2011, 02:42:17 AM
 #48

Speaking of which, hey Tawsix, got an update for us?

I'm the CEO of CoinLab (www.coinlab.com) and the Executive Director of the Bitcoin Foundation, I will identify if I'm speaking for myself or one of the organizations when I post from this account.
Tawsix
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May 17, 2011, 05:21:10 AM
 #49

Speaking of which, hey Tawsix, got an update for us?

Absolutely: so far, 594 shares have sold.  At the current exchange of 7.82USD/BTC, that's $3483.81USD.  I have changed the rigs I will be buying, with each rig costing $960 and capable of 1065 Mhash/sec.  I will be starting when enough funds have been raised to purchase 4 rigs.  Only 61 more shares need to be sold.  I am confident this will happen before the end of the week.

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May 17, 2011, 05:39:22 AM
 #50

Speaking of which, hey Tawsix, got an update for us?

Absolutely: so far, 594 shares have sold.  At the current exchange of 7.82USD/BTC, that's $3483.81USD.  I have changed the rigs I will be buying, with each rig costing $960 and capable of 1065 Mhash/sec.  I will be starting when enough funds have been raised to purchase 4 rigs.  Only 61 more shares need to be sold.  I am confident this will happen before the end of the week.

so let me rephrase that:

you have money for 3 of your rigs already now, 4 if you would take a more optimized build, capable of give or take 1gh/s. you could already be mining with 3 rigs taking in, given current valuation, a few hundret bucks. instead, it seems part of your plan to let this go waste, the money of your investors. if ROI if your investors is a concern for you, why arent the first btc already there? we are looking at anything between 40 to 60 btc not mined just since the week started.

proud 5.x gh/s miner. tips welcome at 1A132BPnYMrgYdDaRyLpRrLQU4aG1WLRtd
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May 17, 2011, 06:07:17 AM
 #51

I'm not so testy, but I agree that it would be nice to see the three rigs purchased. Some photos and receipts might go a long way here; I bet additional shares get picked up more quickly, too.


I'm the CEO of CoinLab (www.coinlab.com) and the Executive Director of the Bitcoin Foundation, I will identify if I'm speaking for myself or one of the organizations when I post from this account.
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May 17, 2011, 08:11:42 AM
 #52

I agree with some of the other posters here. You could have ramped up by buying 1 or 2 machines and started them mining. This would increase confidence and trust that investors bitcoins are in safe hands. I am not a shareholder in your effort however I dont wish to see people taken advantage of.

Trust in these dealings with remote cluster mining are paramount.
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May 17, 2011, 11:25:42 AM
 #53

Speaking of which, hey Tawsix, got an update for us?

Absolutely: so far, 594 shares have sold.  At the current exchange of 7.82USD/BTC, that's $3483.81USD.  I have changed the rigs I will be buying, with each rig costing $960 and capable of 1065 Mhash/sec.  I will be starting when enough funds have been raised to purchase 4 rigs.  Only 61 more shares need to be sold.  I am confident this will happen before the end of the week.

From the recent activity on glbse I'd say you've got enough to start.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

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May 17, 2011, 11:32:08 AM
 #54

python bmc.py depth SIN
Enter passphrase:

bids --:-- [[10, 1]]
asks --:-- [[4385, 75000000]] <-- 460,5 BTC raised Shocked

Please give exact rig specs + an update when the first rig is going to mine (as you won't start before the next difficulty increase, which is estimated to be 230k+, this means not starting this week with 1 rig lost you and your investors already quite some coins...).

Can shareholders also start motions in the future?

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May 17, 2011, 02:40:58 PM
 #55


Can shareholders also start motions in the future?

Yes this is something I'll be adding.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

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May 18, 2011, 07:10:22 AM
 #56

Today, enough shares have been bought to give me the confidence that there is sufficient interest in this venture and that operations can commence.  I will be withdrawing the funds raised from GLBSE and converting them to USD on MtGox.com.  The funds will be transferred to a dwolla.com account and then deposited into my bank account.  At this point, I will order the rigs, and assemble them upon arrival.  The central computer they will be pointed at is already available.

The amount of BTC raised at the time of withdrawal is 483, or 644 shares worth of funds.  At the exchange rate of $7.4USD/BTC, this will raise over $3500USD.  I have revised the build used for the rig such that each rig will cost $1160 and is capable of producing > 1400 Mhash/sec.  The funds raised will allow for the purchase of 3 of these rigs, for a total output of ~4200 Mhash/sec.  Using a difficulty of 250000, the first 50 BTC will be generated in about 3 days. 

I have initiated a vote for shareholders of the business concerning the reissuing and repricing of unsold shares.  The file attached to the vote contains the following content:

Vote Start:   Wednesday May 18, 2011 - 2:00 AM
Vote End:      Friday May 20, 2011 - 12:00 AM
Vote Num:   000001
Vote issue:   Reissuing and repricing unsold shares

This vote is being held to determine the shareholders' opinions
on the matter of reissuing and repricing current unsold shares
from .75 BTC/share to 1.0 BTC/share.  These shares would be
offered until May 25, 2011, at which point another vote would
be taken on reissuing and repricing.  The purpose of this is
to reward early investors for their greater risks as well as
raise funds quicker once the reputation and legitimacy of the
business is solidified.

A vote in favor (yes) will support a reissuing and repricing
of unsold shares to 1.0 BTC/share.

A vote against (no) will support a continuation of current
pricing of the shares until May 25, 2011, at which point
another vote will be taken.


I would like to thank those who have invested this early in this business, because without you it never would have left the drawing board.  Together we will break new ground and pave the way to the future.  Others will follow where you have led, but you are the pioneers who blazed the trail, and I can not thank you enough.

I would also like to thank Nefario: I would like to thank you for the opportunities you've provided not only me but the entire Bitcoin community.  This has been a huge success, far greater than what I anticipated, and I feel that it's just the beginning.  We will grow together, each of us benefiting the other as much as we individually benefit.  You have provided the solid ground for others to build upon, the ability to reach untold heights that could not be reached alone.  You have my gratitude.

I will continue posting updates on the status of the funds/rigs/etc. as things progress.  The hardest part is over, but there is still much work to do.

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May 18, 2011, 07:34:27 AM
 #57

The funds raised will allow for the purchase of 3 of these rigs, for a total output of ~4200 Mhash/sec.  Using a difficulty of 250000, the first 50 BTC will be generated in about 3 days.

How do you plan to mine? I would suggest using one of the zero fee pools (like btcGuild for example) with Eligius as a fallback (I wrote a guide how to do that back in the btcGuild thread). In general I would recommend everyone to have 2 miners running per GPU, there is sometimes even a performance increase and they do automatic failover this way.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
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May 18, 2011, 03:51:29 PM
 #58

I voted.

I'm the CEO of CoinLab (www.coinlab.com) and the Executive Director of the Bitcoin Foundation, I will identify if I'm speaking for myself or one of the organizations when I post from this account.
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May 18, 2011, 04:36:26 PM
 #59

@Tawsix,

Do you withhold from voting? You do have 51% of the shares, which means you would overrule all the other share holders.
Tawsix
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May 18, 2011, 05:22:53 PM
 #60

@Tawsix,

Do you withhold from voting? You do have 51% of the shares, which means you would overrule all the other share holders.

These votes are to test the waters and help me make decisions concerning the business.  I will vote, but it will usually be in concurrence with the majority of the shareholders, unless I feel that it is an unfeasible or unprofitable move (aka shareholders vote that I send each one flowers every week, etc.) or I *really* want a certain outcome and there is a large split in the shareholders' votes.  I will not be overruling shareholder votes except in the most extreme circumstances, and I will be forward with my actions and reasoning.

We have since sold another 163 shares, which I will be withdrawing and listing on MtGox later this evening.  So far only 288/808 votes have come in.  The current tally is 288 yea, 0 nay.

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