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Author Topic: The great debate - dank vs vod  (Read 7636 times)
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October 17, 2014, 06:31:42 PM
 #121

I find it very curious that this forum periodically needs to have an Atlas vs Matthew thread.

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October 19, 2014, 08:04:14 AM
 #122

Sorry to intrude. I seem to often stumble upon Vod versus Dank threads - seems to be a popular discussion once you get to know this forum.

If you're looking for impartiality I can do this for three reasons - 1) I don't know either of you, 2) The job that I do heavily depends on my impartiality and non-judgementalism. 3) You may see that I have negative rep from Vod but I'm willing to accept that this as a newbie mistake on my behalf and still remain impartial.

I think you guys are handling it all wrong here. It seems all the comments come from one bias or the other, but mostly weighting on Vods side. I think there are more things at play here. Perhaps I can ask a few probing questions?

Vod: As I understand it from Danks negative reputation (Yep, I've read it) it seems that he borrowed that huge amount when btc was only worth about $10, is that right? Or someone just trying to boost the credibility of another taker? Also, if it is right, why do you think it is fair that Dank pay back over 10,000% of which he borrowed? Also, why do you feel that it is your responsibility to chase Dank for the btc? - these are only questions, not judgements.

Dank: Have you tried to negotiate your loan price in any way with your lender? Have you tried to pay anything back? If you haven't paid anything back why do you think it is unfair that you pay anything back? Are you really unemployed? If so why and how did you think it feasible to pay back a loan when you're unemployed - again,  questions, not judgements.

Hope this opens up the discussion a bit more than cheap shots at one another Smiley
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October 20, 2014, 12:19:39 AM
Last edit: October 20, 2014, 12:54:47 AM by username18333
 #123

Sorry to intrude. I seem to often stumble upon Vod versus Dank threads - seems to be a popular discussion once you get to know this forum.

If you're looking for impartiality I can do this for three reasons - 1) I don't know either of you, 2) The job that I do heavily depends on my impartiality and non-judgementalism. 3) You may see that I have negative rep from Vod but I'm willing to accept that this as a newbie mistake on my behalf and still remain impartial.

I think you guys are handling it all wrong here. It seems all the comments come from one bias or the other, but mostly weighting on Vods side. I think there are more things at play here. Perhaps I can ask a few probing questions?

Vod: As I understand it from Danks negative reputation (Yep, I've read it) it seems that he borrowed that huge amount when btc was only worth about $10, is that right? Or someone just trying to boost the credibility of another taker? Also, if it is right, why do you think it is fair that Dank pay back over 10,000% of which he borrowed? Also, why do you feel that it is your responsibility to chase Dank for the btc? - these are only questions, not judgements.

Dank: Have you tried to negotiate your loan price in any way with your lender? Have you tried to pay anything back? If you haven't paid anything back why do you think it is unfair that you pay anything back? Are you really unemployed? If so why and how did you think it feasible to pay back a loan when you're unemployed - again,  questions, not judgements.

Hope this opens up the discussion a bit more than cheap shots at one another Smiley

Your phrasing (e.g., "…only worth about $10…") betrays a belief that Bitcoin is only valuable insofar as it may prove exchanged for more commonplace capital.

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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October 20, 2014, 04:28:09 AM
 #124

Also, if it is right, why do you think it is fair that Dank pay back over 10,000% of which he borrowed?
Somebody has to absorb the loss of purchasing power. Either dank, squall or a mixture of both.
Anyway, squall set out a generous reduced repayment amount dank had to pay.

Lots of people owe lots of people coins on this forum. Unfortunately dank feels the need to endlessly beg for more money, usually for scammy reasons, which is why he's a target.

Made his own bed.

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October 20, 2014, 04:32:26 AM
 #125

Also, if it is right, why do you think it is fair that Dank pay back over 10,000% of which he borrowed?
Somebody has to absorb the loss of purchasing power. Either dank, squall or a mixture of both.
Anyway, squall set out a generous reduced repayment amount dank had to pay.

Lots of people owe lots of people coins on this forum. Unfortunately dank feels the need to endlessly beg for more money, usually for scammy reasons, which is why he's a target.

Made his own bed.

Your statement assumes that ownership of these bitcoins, had they gone un-loaned, would have, effectively, been maintained until this time present.

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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October 20, 2014, 04:36:21 AM
 #126

Dank: Have you tried to negotiate your loan price in any way with your lender? Have you tried to pay anything back?

You obviously haven't followed the story.

Squall could have sold the 53btc at $1,100 each for $60,000.  Squall negotiated the debt at $10,000 - provided dank made monthly payments.

dank only made three agreed payments before he started falling behind and eventually stopped.

That agreement is null and void and dank now owes the original 53 btc.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325070.0

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October 20, 2014, 04:42:00 AM
 #127

Dank: Have you tried to negotiate your loan price in any way with your lender? Have you tried to pay anything back?

You obviously haven't followed the story.

Squall negotiated the debt at $10,000 - provided dank made monthly payments.

dank only made three agreed payments before he started falling behind and eventually stopped.

That agreement is null and void and dank now owes the original 53 btc.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325070.0
"dank" was an investment whereupon "squall1066" lost his shirt.

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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October 20, 2014, 04:43:38 AM
 #128

"dank" was an investment whereupon "squall1066" lost his shirt.

I could agree with that.

But why then would we let the deadbeat "investment" come back and keep asking for more money?  That's all I am trying to prevent - another scam.

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October 20, 2014, 04:46:42 AM
 #129

"dank" was an investment whereupon "squall1066" lost his shirt.

I could agree with that.

But why then would we let the deadbeat "investment" come back and keep asking for more money?  That's all I am trying to prevent - another scam.

Quote from: Wise Guy
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Quote from: The "People"
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice— "Help, Police‼"

(Within the latter, one diffuses responsibility from the formerly responsible individual to the presently irresponsible collective—enabling other such losses of shirts.)

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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October 20, 2014, 06:46:37 AM
 #130

Also, if it is right, why do you think it is fair that Dank pay back over 10,000% of which he borrowed?
Somebody has to absorb the loss of purchasing power. Either dank, squall or a mixture of both.
Anyway, squall set out a generous reduced repayment amount dank had to pay.

Lots of people owe lots of people coins on this forum. Unfortunately dank feels the need to endlessly beg for more money, usually for scammy reasons, which is why he's a target.

Made his own bed.

Your statement assumes that ownership of these bitcoins, had they gone un-loaned, would have, effectively, been maintained until this time present.
The 'what if' is unknown, I cannot avoid making assumptions.

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October 20, 2014, 06:48:28 AM
 #131

Also, if it is right, why do you think it is fair that Dank pay back over 10,000% of which he borrowed?
Somebody has to absorb the loss of purchasing power. Either dank, squall or a mixture of both.
Anyway, squall set out a generous reduced repayment amount dank had to pay.

Lots of people owe lots of people coins on this forum. Unfortunately dank feels the need to endlessly beg for more money, usually for scammy reasons, which is why he's a target.

Made his own bed.

Your statement assumes that ownership of these bitcoins, had they gone un-loaned, would have, effectively, been maintained until this time present.
The 'what if' is unknown, I cannot avoid making assumptions.

Had you made no statement, you would not have voiced an assumption.

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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October 20, 2014, 06:53:56 AM
 #132

Also, if it is right, why do you think it is fair that Dank pay back over 10,000% of which he borrowed?
Somebody has to absorb the loss of purchasing power. Either dank, squall or a mixture of both.
Anyway, squall set out a generous reduced repayment amount dank had to pay.

Lots of people owe lots of people coins on this forum. Unfortunately dank feels the need to endlessly beg for more money, usually for scammy reasons, which is why he's a target.

Made his own bed.

Your statement assumes that ownership of these bitcoins, had they gone un-loaned, would have, effectively, been maintained until this time present.
The 'what if' is unknown, I cannot avoid making assumptions.

Had you made no statement, you would not have voiced an assumption.
Okay, I see where your coming from. Point taken.

What would of been the correct answer to rayban34's question, from your perspective?

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October 20, 2014, 07:02:10 AM
 #133

Also, if it is right, why do you think it is fair that Dank pay back over 10,000% of which he borrowed?
Somebody has to absorb the loss of purchasing power. Either dank, squall or a mixture of both.
Anyway, squall set out a generous reduced repayment amount dank had to pay.

Lots of people owe lots of people coins on this forum. Unfortunately dank feels the need to endlessly beg for more money, usually for scammy reasons, which is why he's a target.

Made his own bed.

Your statement assumes that ownership of these bitcoins, had they gone un-loaned, would have, effectively, been maintained until this time present.
The 'what if' is unknown, I cannot avoid making assumptions.

Had you made no statement, you would not have voiced an assumption.
Okay, I see where your coming from. Point taken.

What would of been the correct answer to rayban34's question, from your perspective?

Any whereto you do not object. Wink

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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October 20, 2014, 05:17:40 PM
 #134



This is interesting...

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Bitcointalk Official Thread
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October 20, 2014, 09:50:54 PM
 #135

I am watching this thread - it's quite interesting. All I'm waiting for now is Dank to comment so I have a bit more of a balanced perspective and then I will have a few more questions for you all to consider.

VOD - you are correct. The assumption that the bitcoin would have remained untouched and secured in squalls wallet was a bad one. I retract that question. And possibly throws a better understanding of the situation from my perspective.

Username18333 - I think that is an unfair statement because this situation would not have arisen if bitcoin was the equivalent of carpediem coin or equivalent. However, I do see the point that you are making.
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October 20, 2014, 10:47:24 PM
 #136



This is interesting...

This is me, except I also have 3d glasses on.
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October 20, 2014, 10:49:15 PM
 #137

The debate is over.  I won 4 days ago.

I post for interest - not signature spam.
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October 20, 2014, 11:12:36 PM
Last edit: October 20, 2014, 11:29:23 PM by username18333
 #138

I am watching this thread - it's quite interesting. All I'm waiting for now is Dank to comment so I have a bit more of a balanced perspective and then I will have a few more questions for you all to consider.

VOD - you are correct. The assumption that the bitcoin would have remained untouched and secured in squalls wallet was a bad one. I retract that question. And possibly throws a better understanding of the situation from my perspective.

Username18333 - I think that is an unfair statement because this situation would not have arisen if bitcoin was the equivalent of carpediem coin or equivalent. However, I do see the point that you are making.

Actually, it still could have: if the amount of, say, ground beef that a bitcoin could purchase increased over that time, "dank" could still face those same difficulties, regarding repayment of that debt being discussed, he presently does.

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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October 23, 2014, 12:45:02 AM
 #139

If this was a philosophy or spiritual forum, then that would be great.  But you generally make only two kinds of threads here: 1) Talking about your beliefs, and 2) asking for loans.  When those are your primary motives for posting on a *Bitcoin* forum, something is obviously suspect to further inquiry.  There are much better audiences for you to preach to, so that leads me to believe that either you're unwise for selecting and persisting upon this audience, or preaching simply isn't your number one motive here (but money is).
Good post. Yes, very suspect indeed. He exists on this forum to take money off the unwary. I cannot think of any other reason he's here.
Well dank am I right? Tell me different.

What do you want me to talk about?  Want me to judge people and objects?  Who's your favorite celebrity?  What food tastes the best?  What's the best sex position?

I'd prefer to talk about existence, I didn't realize that was a problematic thing to do.

If I wanted to scam people I would go on silk road and scam people.  I wouldn't post on the same forum with the same account for two years.

And yet all the 115 sales I made on silk road ended with 5/5 reviews.  And I was the cheapest vendor selling the product in the United States.  Those who do wrong onto others go nowhere, as karma balances their actions out.  Those who do right go everywhere, as there is no limit as to how high you may vibrate.

Do you think there's any possibility I am here because I found god, seek to share god with the world and establish a new society based off love?

It makes quite a bit of sense to share what I know with the bitcoin community, because bitcoin carries a very real threat of throwing humanity further into financial enslavement.  Look at the distribution of wealth with bitcoin.  It is no better than the dollar.  All it does is tie people to a system dependent on machines.

We need to balance our technological society with nature, not more technology.  That's like trying to stop war with more war - completely insane.

Money will never bring peace, it stimulates the opposite side of the mind - greed.  The only way to find peace is love.  Unity, oneness.

Unless you want your kids and family raised in a one world government that uses the population as cheap slaves, you may want to listen.

A moneyless society means true freedom.  A moneyless society means a quantum leap in conscious evolution and technological evolution.

We really can't go anywhere with the status quo of today suppressing any revolutionary technologies that come about.  Remove money, you remove the greedy elitist's power.  Remove their power and you end the retardation of humanity's progression and evolution.

It's not that complicated.

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October 23, 2014, 01:32:07 AM
Last edit: October 23, 2014, 01:56:03 AM by the joint
 #140


What do you want me to talk about?  Want me to judge people and objects?  Who's your favorite celebrity?  What food tastes the best?  What's the best sex position?

I'd like you to talk about and answer the questions asked of you...to have a "great debate."  So, basically I'm asking you to stay on topic within the thread that you created.  

Quote
I'd prefer to talk about existence, I didn't realize that was a problematic thing to do.
 

Then why did you make this thread to have a debate when you don't want to debate?

You:  Let's debate!
Us:   Okay!
You:  I prefer to talk about existence.
Us:  Huh and/or  Shocked

Quote
If I wanted to scam people I would go on silk road and scam people.  I wouldn't post on the same forum with the same account for two years.

Irrelevant.  You *owe* squall a set amount of money that you stated that you would pay.  You no longer are attempting to pay squall back and are therefore a thief. Accordingly, you have retained more than is rightfully yours, thereby making you a thief.  We can toss that "scam" word right out the window if it causes confusion for you.  You're a thief.

Quote
And yet all the 115 sales I made on silk road ended with 5/5 reviews.  And I was the cheapest vendor selling the product in the United States.  Those who do wrong onto others go nowhere, as karma balances their actions out.  Those who do right go everywhere, as there is no limit as to how high you may vibrate.

Also irrelevant.  You're a thief.  Quit bringing up things that don't matter in an attempt to pull a fast one over on me.  It's insulting, and you know I'm smarter than that.  You can get 10,000 5/5 reviews, and you'd still be a thief.  Doing 'good' many times does not absolve you from the responsibility of being honest in other situations.  You're a thief, and what's worse is that you do anything you can to justify it.

Quote
Do you think there's any possibility I am here because I found god, seek to share god with the world and establish a new society based off love?

Do you think there's any possibility you found Satan instead who has deceived you?  Do you think there's any possibility that someone else in this thread may have found God but got a better view?  Do you think it's possible that maybe you did find God but didn't automatically gain the capacity to express your experiences and their implications in a consistent way?

Based upon what you've demonstrated, I can answer your questions as follows:  At this point, what I will not allow any possibility for is that you both found God and are also able to communicate the truth of what you've found in a consistent way.

Dank, your arguments are provably inconsistent and unsound, and many are flat out invalid.  There isn't anything that you could possibly to do demonstrate otherwise. Logic has rules and you break them constantly. If you're not familiar with those rules, you won't be aware you're breaking them.  For some others here, it's so stunningly clear that it warrants no explanation.  All we need to do is say, "Just look!" and it would be more than convincing.  

Quote
It makes quite a bit of sense to share what I know with the bitcoin community, because bitcoin carries a very real threat of throwing humanity further into financial enslavement.  Look at the distribution of wealth with bitcoin.  It is no better than the dollar.  All it does is tie people to a system dependent on machines.

It doesn't make sense if 1) people repeatedly tell you that they don't want to hear it, and if 2) people prove you wrong and yet you continue to state you are correct.  That's what we call a total waste of time. You've spent hundreds of hours on this forum and have actually turned more people away from your ideas than onto them.  I don't know what part about spending several years making negative progress makes sense to you.

You also carry the actual *responsibility* of having thrown squall further into financial enslavement.

Quote
We need to balance our technological society with nature, not more technology.  That's like trying to stop war with more war - completely insane.

We need people who contribute to society, not who mentally masturbate all day and contribute nothing of any value.  You infinitely overexaggerate the importance of the things you say.  I'm not impressed by them.  I've said everything you've tried to say, only better (sorry, it's true) without success.  You're not a guru.  You're not a genius.  You're a stubborn fool who doesn't understand that it does not matter how right you are. Nobody even cares if you're right anymore. At this point, you could probably throw down a 100% accurate proof of God and blah blah, and NOBODY WOULD CARE.  Why would nobody care?  Because everything else you do suggests you're stupid.  Learn and adapt, or die and make way for somebody who will.

Oh, and trying to gain clarity through drugs is also insane.

Quote
Money will never bring peace, it stimulates the opposite side of the mind - greed.  The only way to find peace is love.  Unity, oneness.

Wow. Money will never bring peace.  Something I (in an ideal world) agree with.

...But you're stupid for saying it (because nobody cares...you've exhausted your cards).

Quote
Unless you want your kids and family raised in a one world government that uses the population as cheap slaves, you may want to listen.

Unless you want people to ignore you for the rest of your life, you might want to actually "communicate" with people instead of turning every single post into a one-way conversation wherein every the only thing you know how to talk about is what you believe in.  

This is very insulting to people. All it shows is you don't care one bit about what others think.

Quote
A moneyless society means true freedom.  A moneyless society means a quantum leap in conscious evolution and technological evolution.

Ah...but not a moneyless Dank, right?  Money is only bad if everyone else has some and you don't, am i right? Wink

What you're experiencing is jealousy manifesting itself as victimization.

Also, if a moneyless society means true freedom, why did you make 115 drug sales on Silk Road? You should have given it away.  You're a hypocrite.

Quote
We really can't go anywhere with the status quo of today suppressing any revolutionary technologies that come about.  Remove money, you remove the greedy elitist's power.  Remove their power and you end the retardation of humanity's progression and evolution.

And how do you suggest we do that?  Moreover, how do we get rid of your greed?

I'd argue your greed is just as bad if not worse than the elitists'.  It's people like you that allow the elitists to get away with their greed.  You -- the people who complain but never pitch in, who project their own negative qualities onto others and who needlessly play the victim and continually take without giving back -- are the larger problem.

Quote
It's not that complicated.

I agree with you that the idea isn't complicated. It doesn't take any significant intelligence to recognize this.  That's why what you're saying isn't impressive.  Countless millions of people have this idea.

However, what IS complicated is fixing the problems that we have in society without everything collapsing and having tens or hundreds of millions of people die.  You're naive and you think that the world can collectively flick a lightswitch and change everything.  But, for those of us who actually have real world experience *doing stuff*, we realize that it's actually hard work, it takes time and resources, and is massively complex, and there is no perfect scenario wherein everything changes positively and you don't have any negative consequences.

TL;DR:  When I first began conversing with you, I thought you were misunderstood.  Over time, that turned into a believe that, although misguided, you still have a good heart.  Now, I *really* question your good heart, because, despite being a proven liar and thief, you still show absolutely no remorse, no concern, no sense of responsibility, etc. and you make no attempt to improve yourself or help those whom you have hurt.
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