Mining Hardware Company Dishonesty Ranking

[btcusury]

For those following the mining hardware development and the fall from grace of KnC, etc, can we get a picture of where honesty remains, if indeed there remains any? Post your impression of "most to least honest mining hardware company".

Butterfly Labs is probably gonna be at the bottom, but I'm curious as to where KnC and AMT would rank.

[TheRealSteve]

There are already two lists that aggegrate some data, and plenty of posts celebrating one or denouncing another:
[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide
[GUIDE] Bicknellski's Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide

[philipma1957]

For those following the mining hardware development and the fall from grace of KnC, etc, can we get a picture of where honesty remains, if indeed there remains any? Post your impression of "most to least honest mining hardware company".

Butterfly Labs is probably gonna be at the bottom, but I'm curious as to where KnC and AMT would rank.

Knc = 47 of 100

AMT = 35 of 100 on dogie's thread

[PatMan]

There is a conflict of interest with dogie's guide, as he is now an employee of Bitmain, so it has lost a lot of credibility I'm afraid.

[opieum2]

AMT rates worse IMO than BFL (I was sadly a investor-customer of both), altho considering the fact that they have issued death threats along with plans on execution for Gleb Gamow/Phinneas Gage, and implied such to me in the form of a "chat" at their office, AND threatened to sue ANYONE who speaks out against them. Not to mention they doxxed anyone who speaks badly about them. So AMT SHOULD IMO rate low.

But all things considered, despite the debate on dogies guide. I still think its accurate. Bitmain may have issues, but they at least own them and make things right as quick as they can. Read the latest posts by them just to see that much. You will not see any such from anyone else except maybe spondoolies. They are another good vendor, but ship a little too far out for my preferences. There are a few good vendors here, but you gotta really do your own homework.

[TheRealSteve]

There is a conflict of interest with dogie's guide, as he is now an employee of Bitmain, so it has lost a lot of credibility I'm afraid.

Considering the hardware he has received to write guides for, I think that argument would have applied a long time ago for various manufacturers.  As it stands, the overview is still pretty a pretty good guideline (you can compare Dogie's top half/bottom half and Bicknellski's list), and any issues people take with it can be read in the actual thread (it's not self-moderated).

In the end you're going to have to choose... either put some trust in aggregate lists like theirs, or ask around and be sure you're going to get replies from people who feel they have been personally wronged in one way or another, usually writing in allcaps bold red text, but who either cannot or will not provide anything that would back up their claims, with the manufacturer left no choice but to turn things into a he-said/she-said situation, and the reader being none-the-wiser on overall reputation.
Well, that or the third option: start one yourself

[dogie]

There is a conflict of interest with dogie's guide, as he is now an employee of Bitmain, so it has lost a lot of credibility I'm afraid.

Considering the hardware he has received to write guides for, I think that argument would have applied a long time ago for various manufacturers.  As it stands, the overview is still pretty a pretty good guideline (you can compare Dogie's top half/bottom half and Bicknellski's list), and any issues people take with it can be read in the actual thread (it's not self-moderated).

The thing is though, how can I be biased for / against every company at once? Patman has a personal vendetta against me, so I wouldn't care too much about what he says. Ps, I'm not an employee of bitmain, I'm an external contractor.

[opieum2]

A huge red flag is if the threads for a manufacturer are self-moderated. It opens the door for abuse by the manufacturer. They can curate the thread to make themselves look good. A number of the shady (in fact almost all of them) have one. Usually you will see a secondary user owned (unofficial or users or fucks us) threads pop up. That should be pretty much the way you will know what is going on. Most of the shadier dealers will claim its paid black marketing and such, but really it's almost always people who exposed their crap. Just gotta be willing to do the research. After all it's your money you are spending. If you are not willing to do the research, then you are setting yourself up for losing money, take it from someone who has already been burned twice.

[opieum2]

There is a conflict of interest with dogie's guide, as he is now an employee of Bitmain, so it has lost a lot of credibility I'm afraid.

Considering the hardware he has received to write guides for, I think that argument would have applied a long time ago for various manufacturers.  As it stands, the overview is still pretty a pretty good guideline (you can compare Dogie's top half/bottom half and Bicknellski's list), and any issues people take with it can be read in the actual thread (it's not self-moderated).

The thing is though, how can I be biased for / against every company at once? Patman has a personal vendetta against me, so I wouldn't care too much about what he says. Ps, I'm not an employee of bitmain, I'm an external contractor.

I have to agree, even if he did work for them, his reviews have been very objective. About as much as they can get. There are people hating on here, but he has done excellent work, and his body of work on the reviews speaks for itself.

[Bicknellski]

[Thumbs Up]

Reputable companies that you can expect delivery on time and to spec and will when they are in error provide reasonable and equitable relief to the customers satisfaction. In no particular order of importance.

ASICMiner
Bitfury
Bitmaintech
BTCGarden
IASCICMINER (Asicminer Tube Miner Promoted by FriedCat)
Rockminer
Spondoolies Tech

-------------------------------------------



[Thumbs Down]

Disreputable companies that have provided late delivery or not to spec and will not or have yet to provided adequate relief to customers when the company is in error. In no particular order of importance.

KNC
CoinTerra   
Butterfly Labs - FTC Has Shut Them Down! See Link
HashFast - Forced Bankruptcy! See Link
Bitmine
Technobit
Black Arrow
AMT- No Longer Shipping Units. See Link
VMC
nTek - No Longer Shipping Units. See Link
Minersource

* If you would like to COMPLAIN ANONYMOUSLY about a company feel free to PM me about that company so that your order from that company will not be put in jeopardy. As much as possible we will use posts made by customers with valid complaints posted directly in the hardware and group buy threads.


-------------------------------------------




[Delisted Thumbs Up]

Removed Thumbs Up Companies for Lack of Shipping (30 days without a post or units shipped)

Twinfury USB miner Last Post  May 26, 2014  

One String Miner Last Post August 18, 2014

Nano Fury Project USB miner Last Post September 23, 2014


* Note that these companies or entities could develop new miners or start sales again and would be listed again. Links for threads give reasoning for lack of shipping and potential future projects.


-------------------------------------------


[REASONING]

Here is my biased and opinionated guide on purchasing hardware. I am only taking into account which companies have, in my personal assessment, a reputation for delivering on time and to spec without any significant or outstanding customer service issues. This is not a comparative chart it is merely a suggestion for consumers looking for a starting point rather than having to read through all the forums and other media.

As the OP I am willing to move companies in or out of either area given sufficient complaints from customers or sufficient rectification of past indiscretions based sufficient CUSTOMER feedback from those who were injured initially. Feel free to discuss my biased and opinionated ratings in this a new moderated thread. I value the opinions of actual customers over the fabricator in every case. If you are here to troll me I will simply ignore you and delete your bs and move on to the topic at hand. This is a BIASED and OPINIONATED review of the companies still shipping units. If a company remains in the Thumbs Up or Down section I will review customer posts over the week and take a snap shot on the weekend and post their opinions with my editorial comments. This snapshot will look for negative posts for those in the Thumbs Down and positive in the Thumbs Up. Should there be significant changes to the company in how they resolve or fail to resolve issues then moving them from their current category could be warranted.

Please note there are only two categories so you will need to weigh the merits on your own and determine whether or not you would recommend someone trust a company to deliver on time and to specification and will if in error resolve any and all disputes with their customer base. Let me know if I am missing any fabricators far or wide inside or outside bitcointalk remember NO SCRYPT or ALTCOIN. ONLY SHA256 box makers please. Obviously we will just avoid the outright scams that never shipped a unit right? And please make sure to debate vigorously if you feel I am wrong in my opinion. I will change it based on evidence of customer support for the company is fairly universal.

Remember this guide is just the starting point. You can scan the list and agree or disagree and do your own research. I am giving you my best appraisal based on the reading of the bitcointalk forums and other sources. It is not a comparison of companies. It is just meant to give you a starting point especially for new members to source miners. And as always... read the Caveat Emptor by Gmaxwell and learn any purchase of mining equipment is a crapshoot at best. Good Luck hope it helps you avoid the pitfalls when buying miners.

Oh here is a great rant about ROI. Some rants about Financial ROI by TheRealSteve. Although this Rant relates to stick or usb miners it almost seems to mirror the current situation for the home miner attempting to buy now.

Further to mining there are questions regarding cloud or derivative mining contracts. Please review the thread by DrG here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739510.msg8355686#msg8355686


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[PatMan]

Patman has a personal vendetta against me....

    That's ridiculous, thinking that anyone who has a different point of view to yours has a "vendetta" against you......

Please.....

[dogie]

Patman has a personal vendetta against me....

    That's ridiculous, thinking that anyone who has a different point of view to yours has a "vendetta" against you......

Please.....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=518205.msg9130013#msg9130013
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=518205.msg9131180#msg9131180

tldr you're mad that S2 firmware isn't coming quicker, and as I'm the only person around so you throw your frustrations out at me. I'm not the entity bitmain, nor do I have any control on software or the engineers.

[Bicknellski]

Thought this was about rating Hardware companies not the people who rate the hardware companies?

[dogie]

Thought this was about rating Hardware companies not the people who rate the hardware companies?

He's spoiling to be banned, every post he makes [on any topic] is toxic / off topic.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54366;sa=showPosts;start=0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54366;sa=showPosts;start=20
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54366;sa=showPosts;start=40

[Bicknellski]

Thought this was about rating Hardware companies not the people who rate the hardware companies?

He's spoiling to be banned, every post he makes [on any topic] is toxic / off topic.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54366;sa=showPosts;start=0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54366;sa=showPosts;start=20
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54366;sa=showPosts;start=40

So fan the flames? Given your own brand of spam why are you not going to get banned as well? Well off topic again.

I don't really care if you are biased, not biased, or think you are unbiased.

Why don't people post their thoughts beside us? I'd be keen to hear what consumers think over people fighting about you and your list.

Seems to me you have about 10 threads and post in another 10 and this "fight" is spilling over everywhere. How about less you and more consumer discussion?

Way off topic. Topic was rank bottom up.

For me no real need to do that as I have stated in my own thread my reasoning.

[seriouscoin]

Thought this was about rating Hardware companies not the people who rate the hardware companies?

He's spoiling to be banned, every post he makes [on any topic] is toxic / off topic.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54366;sa=showPosts;start=0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54366;sa=showPosts;start=20
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54366;sa=showPosts;start=40

Yes its toxic because i hate lying POS like you? and expose your lies?

Do you see me ever posting lies for my own benefits? lies to get donation?

This is all started because you reply to me that i've mistaken you with someone else. Many members here long enough can recall your early posts. I never even replied to your early posts, I read it and chuckled: pathetic liar. So guess why i call you out now? .....  

And you dare to call me a liar? :

I've already said this is off topic 10x but he won't stop spreading lies about me, so I have to disprove them.

If you were able to read english, you would understand that I was replying to the statement "why don't you have lots of money". I was saying that those two degrees are expensive to attain. I have attained one of them so far.

Why you're randomly [and badly] bringing up 18 month old posts I have no idea. Go post in scam accusations.

NO you did not you little lying piece of shit. You got a master degree in less than a year? from MIT? while living in your mom's basement in UK?

The fact that you lied to get ppl to "donate" money while fcking brag about building a $1Million company at age of 13 does not make you a scammer? There is a reason why the forum prohibits begging now, to block fcking pathetic liar like you. There is nothing random about you, everyone here long enough knows what a joke you are.

More off topic stuff, but forced to reply to the lies...

1) Yes, I have a masters in mechanical engineering - you just repeating "no" does not remove my degree :/
2) No its not from MIT
3) I've been financially independent from my parents for the last 7-8 years.
4) I never lied that I was/am/will be paying for college....
5) I've never forced anyone to donate, even for any of my guides...
6) If people want to donate, they can do. In the last 18 months donations have not exceeded $200 or so.
7) It was in £
It was sales. I don't know about you but I don't want around donating companies by their net worth.
9) Post a scam accusation, this is all off topic.

You need to script your lies little better asshole

1) repeating that you HAVE Master degree WHILE begging for a college fund = you're a lying cunt

You have a BEng in Mechanical Engineering? I have a Masters (MEng) in Mechanical Engineering, you are a million miles away being qualified for this - you're going to have a rude awakening once you do more research. [I too I am unqualified for this....]

Note the date of that post?

Then stop complaining. I had £12 in my bank account. Was bored, started my own £1M company at 13. Do something about it other than complain. In either case, why do we have to hear the QQ?

Paying for college: 15UhE4x7d1hD2o2YKCcdddzuhymsTKdeuz

Ah internet...

4 years of engineering and a 2 year MBA at Harvard/MIT = big bucks. Your attempt at logic was a good try though.

Yet still lying....?

2) But you said Master degree from MIT is expensive. Are you admitting your lies to get donation?

3) Ofcourse you've been financially independent.... right....  . My point is you never attended or even got admission to MIT/Harvard like you said when you looked out for donation

4) Every liar says they dont lie. Whats new?

5) Scammers ofcourse dont force their victims to send them money do they? They lie and mislead ppl to send them money. Thats how it works Mr. Master degree

6) Nobody knows how much was "donated" to you, so why bother saying X while you're already caught lying?

7) Thats not the point

8 ) Sorry i cant comprehend gibberish.

9) Lets not have everyone here know about me, i'm not a liar.

Notice i never ditch your guides because i thought you've changed ..... Until your recent balantly BS posts in Bitmain's thread. I didnt even want to reply to your post, i replied to a fellow hero member who recalled what a joke you were.....

[opieum2]

Back to the topic....My consumer experience.

BFL: Paid in late November 2013 for monarch. got assurances in writing it would be delivered in January, asked in January and got pushed a month each time until I requested a refund which they took their sweet as time giving (June after a request in January and another more forceful request in May). In that time frame I provided the FTC all the info they needed to take action. Now that company is in receivership they have those emails anyway....FTC should not need my emails.

AMT: paid in February 2014....AMT lies about delivery dates knowing miners are not even assembled or working 2 months of wrangling in the forums over wtf is going on and then I get a miner that they KNEW did not work despite assurances otherwise....months of drama with all customers some suing some working with them (which I did) on a technical level to resolve issues with no comp.....only to receive miners that sorely under-perform.  Because of all the unethical crap Joshua Zipkin stated in the chats trying to work to make things right (he had no intentions of refunding....chats are doxxed so it can be reviewed at anyones leisure).....one non-customer decided he had his time wasted and doxxed the chats. Afterwards I was fed up after all the work I put in to help only to have him fuck me over by not delivering my miner as everyone was getting theirs. He routed someone elses rejected order to me.

Bitmaintech: I order hardware, and they are either early or on time. My biggest issue is when they are early and my order arrives days to a week earlier than they expected.......a good problem to have IMO. I have no connection to bitmain whatsoever besides being a customer. Support is excellent. They are responsive.

[jb0316]

There is a conflict of interest with dogie's guide, as he is now an employee of Bitmain, so it has lost a lot of credibility I'm afraid.

AMEN! conflict of interest.