why do people agree to pay taxes?

[teukon]

So many overly thought replies in this thread.

Most 'sane' individuals agree to pay taxes to avoid having their anuses ripped in prison from tax evasion.  No more, no less.

Kind of like how most sane individuals choose to not commit crimes.

Though I agree with the first part of your post (that people pay taxes to avoid having their anuses overstretched), the second part is far from reality. The majority of population don't commit crimes since humans are social beings, and bringing damage to another human is obviously antisocial, thus being against human nature.

A person choosing to pay taxes out of fear is precisely a person choosing not to commit the crime of tax evasion out of fear.

Far from being an isolated example, there are many laws which terrorise* the public into modified behaviour, laws which do not mirror what most consider good social behaviour, laws which do not directly concern "bringing damage to another human".  "crime" and "wrongdoing" are quite distinct notions.  "legality" and "morality" are poles apart.

*The word "terrorise" sounds loaded but I honestly just needed a verb to capture "force behaviour using the threat of violence" and I'm trying to use "coerce" less these days.

[tee-rex]

So many overly thought replies in this thread.

Most 'sane' individuals agree to pay taxes to avoid having their anuses ripped in prison from tax evasion.  No more, no less.

Kind of like how most sane individuals choose to not commit crimes.

Though I agree with the first part of your post (that people pay taxes to avoid having their anuses overstretched), the second part is far from reality. The majority of population don't commit crimes since humans are social beings, and bringing damage to another human is obviously antisocial, thus being against human nature.

A person choosing to pay taxes out of fear is precisely a person choosing not to commit the crime of tax evasion out of fear.

Despite the fact that tax evasion is considered a criminal offense in many countries, it is not considered as a crime against the person (which makes most of criminal offenses). My post was primarily about this type of crime.

[ajareselde]

So many overly thought replies in this thread.

Most 'sane' individuals agree to pay taxes to avoid having their anuses ripped in prison from tax evasion.  No more, no less.

Kind of like how most sane individuals choose to not commit crimes.

Though I agree with the first part of your post (that people pay taxes to avoid having their anuses overstretched), the second part is far from reality. The majority of population don't commit crimes since humans are social beings, and bringing damage to another human is obviously antisocial, thus being against human nature.

The most people are not comitting crimes out of fear, nothing more, nothing less, weather its the fear of god for some religious people, weathers its fear from legal prosecution.
But to say that its not in human nature to hurt another human, is purely unrealistic comprehension of the matter.

cheers

[tee-rex]

So many overly thought replies in this thread.

Most 'sane' individuals agree to pay taxes to avoid having their anuses ripped in prison from tax evasion.  No more, no less.

Kind of like how most sane individuals choose to not commit crimes.

Though I agree with the first part of your post (that people pay taxes to avoid having their anuses overstretched), the second part is far from reality. The majority of population don't commit crimes since humans are social beings, and bringing damage to another human is obviously antisocial, thus being against human nature.

The most people are not comitting crimes out of fear, nothing more, nothing less, weather its the fear of god for some religious people, weathers its fear from legal prosecution.
But to say that its not in human nature to hurt another human, is purely unrealistic comprehension of the matter.

Saying so is equal in effect to the denial of social nature of men, which most obviously contradicts the facts of life. Humans live in societies.

[cameronpalte]

Paying taxes is part of a social contract.  I pay taxes and expect several things in return: security and an ever improving way of life, basically.  I had a neighbor that used to complain of paying taxes when the money went to schools and programs for school children.  I could have made the same complaint but you have to think about what that money is doing.  Putting kids through school enables adults to spend more time in the work force.  It educates children.  That's pretty much it.  I mean, that's just one example of many but you get the idea.  Also think about when new technologies such as the internet come along.  The internet is a new attack vector for pedophiles so you need law enforcement to handle it and that costs money.  

Why is it so hard to understand that libertarians are not against paying for services, just against paying by compulsion ?
Let me pay for my school. Let me decide if my child need schools at all.

A contract assume two consenting person. But if you don't consent, you go to jail. This is not what I call a contract.

And you misunderstand what social contract is - social contract is you pay because you expect things from the society.

Let's say you live in a country with 100 million people. You may use more than your 1/100 million share of the roads. But may not have kids in school. What social contract does is it keeps you from saying I don't want to pay for school but then not paying extra to use the roads more.


You are right a contract assumes two consenting people and that is what government does - you don't go to jail if you don't consent you go to jail if you break the law. And the law states that if you want to be a citizen and live in the U.S. you have to pay taxes. You don't have to pay taxes in the U.S. but you can't choose to live in the U.S., be its citizen and receive those advantages without paying taxes.

[TheButterZone]

So many overly thought replies in this thread.

Most 'sane' individuals agree to pay taxes to avoid having their anuses ripped in prison from tax evasion.  No more, no less.

Kind of like how most sane individuals choose to not commit crimes.

Though I agree with the first part of your post (that people pay taxes to avoid having their anuses overstretched), the second part is far from reality. The majority of population don't commit crimes since humans are social beings, and bringing damage to another human is obviously antisocial, thus being against human nature.

A person choosing to pay taxes out of fear is precisely a person choosing not to commit the crime of tax evasion out of fear.

Despite the fact that tax evasion is considered a criminal offense in many countries, it is not considered as a crime against the person (which makes most of criminal offenses). My post was primarily about this type of crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malum_in_se
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malum_prohibitum

On the totalitarian planet we live in, most "crimes" (and criminal offenses) are in fact malum prohibitum: victimless, and so not legitimately defined as crimes.

[Nicolas Dorier]

And you misunderstand what social contract is - social contract is you pay because you expect things from the society.

You misunderstood what a "contract" is.
The problem is that racket is a word with a bad karma.
But obliging me to pay something by force is a racket, the definition does not depend on who does it.
The question is : is it a morally acceptable racket or not ? (I'm not attacking people defending it, I just asking for the right terminology to be used)

You don't have to pay taxes in the U.S. but you can't choose to live in the U.S., be its citizen and receive those advantages without paying taxes.

Well, actually you can. Concrete example, Halsey Minor, founder of Bitreserve. (personal bankruptcy does not prevent him to create great business and living great)
Get your money out of your personal account, use your multiple companies money, possibly off shore, for buying stuff.
You can even combine tricks : live on your company, and at the same time get all the social benefits because you have technically no income.
I have no doubt that expert on the subject have more tricks than that under their hat, without being called illegal.

But once again, I'm not against paying for a service.
I just want to be free to choose what I consume.
If other people don't want to choose, it is their problem, and nothing prevent them, from a libertarian perspective, to delegate their decisions, but don't ask me to be like them.

Let's say you live in a country with 100 million people. You may use more than your 1/100 million share of the roads.

Simple solution for such problem : Add a road tax on the gazoline, now, if I use more than my share, I will pay more than the others. Fair.
Right now, I am actually in the other case, I don't use roads (I have no car), but still pay for it.
Murray Rothbarth has another solution that do not depends on taxes.

And the law states that if you want to be a citizen and live in the U.S

Well, I don't want to be a citizen, a country meaning nothing to me, but I need a place to live.
What you say would be fair if the land of the country was property of the state. But on juridic perspective, the land is mostly owned by individuals, or moral entities, not by the state.
If I chose to live somewhere, this is a contract between me and the owner, not with the state, since it does not own the land.

Then you can say that the state owns the land because he can expropriate the owner. And you are actually right.
But so we should not pretend living in a country embracing capitalism, free enterprise with respect of your rights of ownership.

As I have no choice about that and as the sailor in "Waking life" says :

Now, I may not understand it. I may not even necessarily agree with it. But I'll tell you what, I accept it and just sort of glide along.

That is it say, I'll just organize my life to play the game with their rules, to my advantage, not fighting it.

[bl4kjaguar]

You are being taxed because you are under a contract with "the government".

It is not a social contract; it is a commercial contract.

In other words,
you still have a contract with the government
and this is why they make claims against you.

IT IS NOT A "SOCIAL CONTRACT" BY ANY MEANS!

It is the SSN "brand" that makes you a target.

The State does not force you to sign the false premise "servitude/branding" document nor the false premise "abandonment" Document--at least not in theory.

The taxes are simply a deception run by the false premise foreign COPYRIGHTED "UNITED STATES" in order to ultimately benefit the Zionist elites as you can see from the book "Are You Lost at Sea?" And these important links:
http://www.lb7.uscourts.gov/documents/12-33012.pdf
http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm

[seoincorporation]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

But goverment have the army on his side, and police follow their orders too.

People dont pay taxes because they love to do it, people pay it because is an obligation.

[GingerAle]

hrm.... naw, not really. thats some kind of logic. I think statism is really just the idea that a large body of people ends up being something more than simply a large body of people.

what that image refers to is probably more the dualistic nature of american politics, which is a fraggin shitshow and is plenty silly.

[Enjorlas]

[Snipe85]

Not depending on someone else to hold your money is progress not anarchy. People can still do everything they are doing now with bitcoin instead of fiat and that includes paying taxes.

[hashman]

Not depending on someone else to hold your money is progress not anarchy. People can still do everything they are doing now with bitcoin instead of fist and that includes paying taxes.

+1 

Exactly.  it's just like old fashioned money, except you aren't being continually robbed. 

[NotLambchop]

...except you aren't being continually robbed. 

Lol, are we talking 'bout the same Bitcoin?

[najzenmajsen]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

But goverment have the army on his side, and police follow their orders too.

People dont pay taxes because they love to do it, people pay it because is an obligation.

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

[tee-rex]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

But goverment have the army on his side, and police follow their orders too.

People dont pay taxes because they love to do it, people pay it because is an obligation.

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

The problem with taxes is not that they are paid to make free hospitals, etc possible. The main problem is their inefficient assignment and obscure expenditure on purposes that most people find dubious, e.g. military operations. And I don't even mention direct theft and fraud.

[leopard2]

On the totalitarian planet we live in, most "crimes" (and criminal offenses) are in fact malum prohibitum: victimless, and so not legitimately defined as crimes.

Exactly, they are synthetic, man-made, virtual crimes, call it what you want

It is the govermnent scum that creates such rubbish to subdue and shaft the population...

Gun control, to subdue
Speed limits, to shaft

and so on, just those two categories. No victimless crime serves to protect. Sure enough, if only malum in se was prohibited (which really is the way libertarianism/anarchy makes sense) 90%+  of government employees would no longer be required.

Government is like fungus, it grows and produces toxins == shitty laws to steal our lifetime

[GingerAle]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

But goverment have the army on his side, and police follow their orders too.

People dont pay taxes because they love to do it, people pay it because is an obligation.

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

The problem with taxes is not that they are paid to make free hospitals, etc possible. The main problem is their inefficient assignment and obscure expenditure on purposes that most people find dubious, e.g. military operations. And I don't even mention direct theft and fraud.

hence the need for truly representative government, hence we need to increase the size of the house and repeal the 17th.

[teukon]

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

Good.  When everyone has a positive reason to fund their government there is no need to force people to pay taxes.  Your country can make its taxes optional, effectively making them "suggested donations", and thereby eliminate some unnecessary bureaucracy.

[B.A.S.]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

But goverment have the army on his side, and police follow their orders too.

People dont pay taxes because they love to do it, people pay it because is an obligation.

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

The problem with taxes is not that they are paid to make free hospitals, etc possible. The main problem is their inefficient assignment and obscure expenditure on purposes that most people find dubious, e.g. military operations. And I don't even mention direct theft and fraud.

What I think few people on this thread realize is that the majority of collected taxes yearly in the US doesn't go to anything other than paying down the interest on the deficit. Spending for Gov't mandated projects (public transport, hospitals, buildings, roadways, etc.) is already built into a budgetary plan annually. These projects are also projected out many years as well. The money for these projects has already been approved and spent.

Taxes serve to pay down the interest, nothing more.