[ANN][Blocknet] truly decentralized exchange | token ecosystem infrastructure

[illodin]

I read much marketing meaningless babble (like "the internet of blockchains"), but not much subtance or technical details...

could you please explain for one use case, from the beginning to the end, how would this work?
e.g. let's say I want to send money using SMS, a feature from XST, while I hold some other thing, let's say APEX. Coins would be automagically exchanged? how? what currency does the service provider receive? can the receiver of the SMS receive other currency than XST? how?

the xbridge api would have a method for each possible service? so it would have to be updated every time a new service is added... otherwise... how would it work?

Is the coding of the exchange and the xbridge api finished? When would this be deployed? right after the ITO?

thanks!

Hey hey

Have you checked out the FAQ below the OP?

The XBridge is a protocol. There's only one XBridge.

The API supports a general-purpose application platform. Ultimately there aren't that many fundamental actions to code for. Their composites would specify a very wide range of potential applications. That said, no doubt the API will go through revisions from time to time, and more or less indefinitely, as technology advances.

Part of the XBridge code is done. But only part. The exchange is not done (though in reality I suspect there'll be multiple decentralised exchanges all competing to offer their services).


As for your SMS example, it would depend to a large extent on however XST code it, but here's a sketch:
Let's say you owe APEX.
And you want to SMS some APEX over to someone.
Your node would pay an XST node for the service, using APEX.
The APEX would be automatically exchanged for XST.
The XST node receive the XST and keep it as profit.
The XST node would pay the Blocknet microfee.
The XST node would take phone number you're sending the amount to.
It would send the amount in XST (because the SMS system is built on the XST blockchain).
The recipient node would receive the XST.
The recipient node would then convert the XST to APEX using the decentralised exchange.
The resulting APEX would then be sent to the recipient's APEX node.

If you're wondering how decentralised exchange works, this speculative post could turn into an interesting discussion.

Took a while before one question that is actually important was asked.

Next question obviously is, how does the system deal with slippage, so you don't start with $5,000 worth of APEX and end up with $2,500 worth of APEX. And, how do you protect against people/bots exploiting the exchange when they know that soon someone's gonna have to sell a hefty amount of XST for APEX.

[synechist]

And we're not interested in having a squabble, so you get booted out.

Which is why you have a circle jerk going on in your thread rather than productive discussion.  & you have a very critical public facing thread in the more visited area of the forums.

Gotta keep the circlejerk going to keep people from dumping.  But on the other hand - the issue of not actually accepting negativity has forced it elsewhere.  Which keeps new money out of XC.

Funny how I always look for unmoderated threads if I'm contemplating an altcoins legitimacy now.  Why would I come "alongside" a community?  Truth doesn't come alongside anybody.  It sits there like an elephant in the room and pisses people off as they howl in pain at lost retirement accounts while Enron drops form $200 a share to .20.

You're right that truth doesn't come alongside anybody.

The issue isn't the truth, it's that you bash people over the head with your opinions.

For all anyone knows, you have a point. But you'd be wrong to think that you'll get anywhere by bashing people over the head.

The truth will never be heard unless it's spoken with respect and empathy.

Question is, why do you persist with a manner of addressing people designed to make them want you to leave? What's the point?

[joebob999]

so you don't start with $5,000 worth of APEX and end up with $2,500 worth of APEX

this is one thing I don't get.  my assumption with the other one (supernet? all out scam by jl777 dude to let him offload his assets wout tanking the market) was that this was why they were getting 10% of the coins to somehow have like a ripple effect of those 10% of coins always being available.

Put in coin A at current coin A/B price -> do coin B stuff with coin B that net owns -> exchange back for coin A without having to go to the exchanges.  it still seems like they'd run ou of popular coins and have too many of unpopular coins.  

but it gets really fuzzy in my head.  

What's the point?

I don't have a lot of patience or tolerance for bullshit.  And prefer to get down to brass tax.

[Revelation]

I read much marketing meaningless babble (like "the internet of blockchains"), but not much subtance or technical details...

could you please explain for one use case, from the beginning to the end, how would this work?
e.g. let's say I want to send money using SMS, a feature from XST, while I hold some other thing, let's say APEX. Coins would be automagically exchanged? how? what currency does the service provider receive? can the receiver of the SMS receive other currency than XST? how?

the xbridge api would have a method for each possible service? so it would have to be updated every time a new service is added... otherwise... how would it work?

Is the coding of the exchange and the xbridge api finished? When would this be deployed? right after the ITO?

thanks!

Hey hey

Have you checked out the FAQ below the OP?

The XBridge is a protocol. There's only one XBridge.

The API supports a general-purpose application platform. Ultimately there aren't that many fundamental actions to code for. Their composites would specify a very wide range of potential applications. That said, no doubt the API will go through revisions from time to time, and more or less indefinitely, as technology advances.

Part of the XBridge code is done. But only part. The exchange is not done (though in reality I suspect there'll be multiple decentralised exchanges all competing to offer their services).


As for your SMS example, it would depend to a large extent on however XST code it, but here's a sketch:
Let's say you owe APEX.
And you want to SMS some APEX over to someone.
Your node would pay an XST node for the service, using APEX.
The APEX would be automatically exchanged for XST.
The XST node receive the XST and keep it as profit.
The XST node would pay the Blocknet microfee.
The XST node would take phone number you're sending the amount to.
It would send the amount in XST (because the SMS system is built on the XST blockchain).
The recipient node would receive the XST.
The recipient node would then convert the XST to APEX using the decentralised exchange.
The resulting APEX would then be sent to the recipient's APEX node.

If you're wondering how decentralised exchange works, this speculative post could turn into an interesting discussion.

Took a while before one question that is actually important was asked.

Next question obviously is, how does the system deal with slippage, so you don't start with $5,000 worth of APEX and end up with $2,500 worth of APEX. And, how do you protect against people/bots exploiting the exchange when they know that soon someone's gonna have to sell a hefty amount of XST for APEX.

This is an interesting question. If both sending and receiving addresses are APEX addresses, why is there a need to make XST-XST SMS transaction as neither the sender nor the recipient of this transaction has anything to do with the original transaction. Isn't in this example APEX-APEX transaction simply becoming APEX-exchange-APEX transaction, something what Cloak had at its infancy?

[illodin]

so you don't start with $5,000 worth of APEX and end up with $2,500 worth of APEX

this is one thing I don't get.  my assumption with the other one (supernet?) was that this was why they were getting 10% of the coins to somehow have like a ripple effect of those 10% of coins always being available.

Put in coin A at current coin A/B price -> do coin B stuff with coin B that net owns -> exchange back for coin A without having to go to the exchanges.  it still seems like they'd run ou of popular coins and have too many of unpopular coins.  

but it gets really fuzzy in my head.  

Well they better have an answer before they start raising money for the project.

[SumthngsWrong]

Another important question: how on earth does someone with a newbie account post negatively in THIS forum? Newbies Fudding in alt forums, I get that, but hard to imagine someone with little-to-no prior involvement within these pages as having a clue about this (Blocknet's proposed) tech.
JMO

[Conurtrol]

Do any of the blocknet team have any thoughts on this?-https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=826263.0
 Would it be possible to incorporate this into the blocknet?

[Mountaingoat]

Is this how the Blocknet works?
You have XST, you want to use a function of SWIFT.

You pay in XST you click what function you want to use, then the Blocknet converts the XST to SWIFT(*1) and then once the function has been used it converts it back from SWIFT to XST(*1).

*1: Does the Blocknet hold funds from every coin to do this?

Please tell me if I have it right.

[joebob999]

Do any of the blocknet team have any thoughts on this?-https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=826263.0
 Would it be possible to incorporate this into the blocknet?

the blocknet is like a network.  what you are looking at in that link is a programming language implimented into a coin.  it would make more sense to put that on xcurrency than the blocknet.

[synechist]

I read much marketing meaningless babble (like "the internet of blockchains"), but not much subtance or technical details...

could you please explain for one use case, from the beginning to the end, how would this work?
e.g. let's say I want to send money using SMS, a feature from XST, while I hold some other thing, let's say APEX. Coins would be automagically exchanged? how? what currency does the service provider receive? can the receiver of the SMS receive other currency than XST? how?

the xbridge api would have a method for each possible service? so it would have to be updated every time a new service is added... otherwise... how would it work?

Is the coding of the exchange and the xbridge api finished? When would this be deployed? right after the ITO?

thanks!

Hey hey

Have you checked out the FAQ below the OP?

The XBridge is a protocol. There's only one XBridge.

The API supports a general-purpose application platform. Ultimately there aren't that many fundamental actions to code for. Their composites would specify a very wide range of potential applications. That said, no doubt the API will go through revisions from time to time, and more or less indefinitely, as technology advances.

Part of the XBridge code is done. But only part. The exchange is not done (though in reality I suspect there'll be multiple decentralised exchanges all competing to offer their services).


As for your SMS example, it would depend to a large extent on however XST code it, but here's a sketch:
Let's say you owe APEX.
And you want to SMS some APEX over to someone.
Your node would pay an XST node for the service, using APEX.
The APEX would be automatically exchanged for XST.
The XST node receive the XST and keep it as profit.
The XST node would pay the Blocknet microfee.
The XST node would take phone number you're sending the amount to.
It would send the amount in XST (because the SMS system is built on the XST blockchain).
The recipient node would receive the XST.
The recipient node would then convert the XST to APEX using the decentralised exchange.
The resulting APEX would then be sent to the recipient's APEX node.

If you're wondering how decentralised exchange works, this speculative post could turn into an interesting discussion.

Took a while before one question that is actually important was asked.

Next question obviously is, how does the system deal with slippage, so you don't start with $5,000 worth of APEX and end up with $2,500 worth of APEX. And, how do you protect against people/bots exploiting the exchange when they know that soon someone's gonna have to sell a hefty amount of XST for APEX.

so you don't start with $5,000 worth of APEX and end up with $2,500 worth of APEX

this is one thing I don't get.  my assumption with the other one (supernet? all out scam by jl777 dude to let him offload his assets wout tanking the market) was that this was why they were getting 10% of the coins to somehow have like a ripple effect of those 10% of coins always being available.

Put in coin A at current coin A/B price -> do coin B stuff with coin B that net owns -> exchange back for coin A without having to go to the exchanges.  it still seems like they'd run ou of popular coins and have too many of unpopular coins. 

but it gets really fuzzy in my head. 

Good questions there. Nice one.

As with any exchange, slippage depends on liquidity and trade size.
To mitigate risk to the user, the exchange could first return a quote (at a cost, of course) before exchanging.
The exchange wouldn't keep any coins; it's decentralised so there'd always be users supplying liquidity. Therefore unpopular (illiquid, in this context) coins would either get dumped or held.
Bots could exploit the exchange if they knew what a given previous trade was for - in this case an SMS tx that involves trading back to the original currency.
But bots will have no access to this information. XBridge communication is encrypted and P2P.

[Conurtrol]

Do any of the blocknet team have any thoughts on this?-https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=826263.0
 Would it be possible to incorporate this into the blocknet?

the blocknet is like a network.  what you are looking at in that link is a programming language implimented into a coin.  it would make more sense to put that on xcurrency than the blocknet.

I think Atomic cross-chain transfers would be relevant to this discussion.

Edit- Although I understand you are referring to the turing complete scripting language that CIYAM has created, this is something new. It's about transfers between block chains who are running the language.

[spookycoins]

@synechist

I love your calm, informative, level-headed replies.
Really glad we have you as a mouthpiece on the XC side.
Lord knows how you keep your sanity when people are just trying to get a rise out of you.
Keep up the great work.

[dan7777777]

How many tokens are people thinking about getting?

[gatra]

I read much marketing meaningless babble (like "the internet of blockchains"), but not much subtance or technical details...

could you please explain for one use case, from the beginning to the end, how would this work?
e.g. let's say I want to send money using SMS, a feature from XST, while I hold some other thing, let's say APEX. Coins would be automagically exchanged? how? what currency does the service provider receive? can the receiver of the SMS receive other currency than XST? how?

the xbridge api would have a method for each possible service? so it would have to be updated every time a new service is added... otherwise... how would it work?

Is the coding of the exchange and the xbridge api finished? When would this be deployed? right after the ITO?

thanks!

Hey hey

Have you checked out the FAQ below the OP?

The XBridge is a protocol. There's only one XBridge.

The API supports a general-purpose application platform. Ultimately there aren't that many fundamental actions to code for. Their composites would specify a very wide range of potential applications. That said, no doubt the API will go through revisions from time to time, and more or less indefinitely, as technology advances.

Part of the XBridge code is done. But only part. The exchange is not done (though in reality I suspect there'll be multiple decentralised exchanges all competing to offer their services).


As for your SMS example, it would depend to a large extent on however XST code it, but here's a sketch:
Let's say you owe APEX.
And you want to SMS some APEX over to someone.
Your node would pay an XST node for the service, using APEX.
The APEX would be automatically exchanged for XST.
The XST node receive the XST and keep it as profit.
The XST node would pay the Blocknet microfee.
The XST node would take phone number you're sending the amount to.
It would send the amount in XST (because the SMS system is built on the XST blockchain).
The recipient node would receive the XST.
The recipient node would then convert the XST to APEX using the decentralised exchange.
The resulting APEX would then be sent to the recipient's APEX node.

If you're wondering how decentralised exchange works, this speculative post could turn into an interesting discussion.

hi! thanks for your reply.
I did read the FAQ, and I did understand xbridge is the protocol. The question is if there should be one message of that protocol for each possible special service.

The concept is interesting, however I wonder how could I be sure that the node providing the service will not steal my money by not providing the service at all. Can the blocknet chain give me security about that? If so, how could it be possible without tracking every service on every chain? if it has to track everything then it's not like the internet of blockchains, it's more like a giant monster that reimplements all other blockchains.
if it can't provide trustless security then I'd rather exchange my apex to xst and then do the xst transfer without going through the blocknet and paying the blocknet fee. I mean an app could do that, there would be no need for a blocknet chain.

[synechist]

Coin Report features the Blocknet!


https://coinreport.net/little-appcoin-sanity-blocknet/

[ndrog]

Coindesk hasn't covered the story  yet about blocknet. Shame on them.

[Mountaingoat]

Can somebody please answer my question?

[synechist]

I read much marketing meaningless babble (like "the internet of blockchains"), but not much subtance or technical details...

could you please explain for one use case, from the beginning to the end, how would this work?
e.g. let's say I want to send money using SMS, a feature from XST, while I hold some other thing, let's say APEX. Coins would be automagically exchanged? how? what currency does the service provider receive? can the receiver of the SMS receive other currency than XST? how?

the xbridge api would have a method for each possible service? so it would have to be updated every time a new service is added... otherwise... how would it work?

Is the coding of the exchange and the xbridge api finished? When would this be deployed? right after the ITO?

thanks!

Hey hey

Have you checked out the FAQ below the OP?

The XBridge is a protocol. There's only one XBridge.

The API supports a general-purpose application platform. Ultimately there aren't that many fundamental actions to code for. Their composites would specify a very wide range of potential applications. That said, no doubt the API will go through revisions from time to time, and more or less indefinitely, as technology advances.

Part of the XBridge code is done. But only part. The exchange is not done (though in reality I suspect there'll be multiple decentralised exchanges all competing to offer their services).


As for your SMS example, it would depend to a large extent on however XST code it, but here's a sketch:
Let's say you owe APEX.
And you want to SMS some APEX over to someone.
Your node would pay an XST node for the service, using APEX.
The APEX would be automatically exchanged for XST.
The XST node receive the XST and keep it as profit.
The XST node would pay the Blocknet microfee.
The XST node would take phone number you're sending the amount to.
It would send the amount in XST (because the SMS system is built on the XST blockchain).
The recipient node would receive the XST.
The recipient node would then convert the XST to APEX using the decentralised exchange.
The resulting APEX would then be sent to the recipient's APEX node.

If you're wondering how decentralised exchange works, this speculative post could turn into an interesting discussion.

hi! thanks for your reply.
I did read the FAQ, and I did understand xbridge is the protocol. The question is if there should be one message of that protocol for each possible special service.

The concept is interesting, however I wonder how could I be sure that the node providing the service will not steal my money by not providing the service at all. Can the blocknet chain give me security about that? If so, how could it be possible without tracking every service on every chain? if it has to track everything then it's not like the internet of blockchains, it's more like a giant monster that reimplements all other blockchains.
if it can't provide trustless security then I'd rather exchange my apex to xst and then do the xst transfer without going through the blocknet and paying the blocknet fee. I mean an app could do that, there would be no need for a blocknet chain.

Valid point, and I agree: if the Blocknet reimplements all the other blockchains then it wouldn't be a Blocknet.

My (hypothetical) suggestion in the hyperlink above is to use atomic group_sig (M-of-M) transactions

Say buyer M wants XYZcoins and seller N wants ABCcoins. There would be:
- buyer M's receiving address in XYZcoin
- seller N's sending address in XYZcoin
- buyer M's sending address in ABCcoin
- seller N's receiving address in ABCcoin

ABCcoins would be sent from address M_ABC to address N_ABC
XYZcoins would be sent from address N_XYZ to address M_XYZ

ABCcoin transactions would be accounted for on the ABC chain
XYZcoin transactions would be accounted for on the XYZ chain
Both parties can publicly observe this.
The receiving nodes on each of the two blockchains would trustlessly verify that the tx's are valid and that the coins are spendable.

The decentralised exchange protocol would enable an atomic group_sig transaction on all participating addresses.
Being atomic, no party could pull out without the whole transaction failing.
And since every address has to sign the transaction, no party is able to redirect coins.
And so no coins can be stolen.


Also, in real life the transactions would be way more complicated because a bid can be part-sold into, so that multiple parties can take a single order.
Furthermore buyer M might want to trade XYZcoin for ABCcoin, but buyer N ABCcoin for QRScoin. So the multiparty transactions could get beautifully complicated.
So it's really atomic multiparty_sig, like XCurrency's mixer transactions... possibly ideal for the ad hoc mesh tech, but now not only denominated in XC.

[synechist]

@synechist

I love your calm, informative, level-headed replies.
Really glad we have you as a mouthpiece on the XC side.
Lord knows how you keep your sanity when people are just trying to get a rise out of you.
Keep up the great work.

Thanks!

Let's just say that by talking about the virtues in operation in constructive conversation, I'm able to enjoy the beauty of the virtues and thereby endure the horrible parts.

[ndrog]

Potential Investors

Please speculate how much returns we can get by holding the tokens?

If we all knew, wouldn't that make life easy? IMO it will have a good ROI