The negative impact of mining farms

[YouAreABetaProvider]

...
You do know that likely the biggest mining company out there, BitFury, sells industrial mining gears to other miners...

I know that KNC, one of the largest companies out there, is

http://s13.postimg.org/g1hik8v3b/Capture.jpg<== click

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrxyUeUCUAASNcy.jpg:large

A fraction of one of KNC's megafarms.

if they can pump out so much bitcoins, isnt this a monopoly game in mining.. and its 1 sided to people who have those kind of institutional resources.

That's exactly what it is and the main point of this thread. Somehow, that logic seems to elude a plethora of bitsheep and their perpetual bleating of trying to turn any events surrounding BTC into great news.

- mtgox hacked, millions of $ lost: great news
- centralization of mining: great news
- BTC price crash: more cheap coins
- rampant scamming in BTC: it's the victim's fault
- government regulation: to da moon, best news ever
- illicit marketplaces: drug dealers are like robin hoods of crypto

Now I'm not saying that every news regarding btc is bad. It's just that some people here try to twist everything to look favourable for btc when it's obvious that isn't the case.

Have you not figured it out yet bro? That is because they have a financial gain in making suckers believe that. Bitcoin isn't all its cracked up to be. I have traded thousands of coins and spent countless hours studying. Its bullshit. Brg444 is the kinda retard that laps it up. Its not about real change but personal gain.

Absolutely. It was always a monopoly, first, the mining monopoly, then, the lucky investors monolopy. So we have KnC being the monolopy of the mining, and retards that have no idea what they are doing but found themselves on wealth by pure chance (basically all early investors, if somebody tells you when they invested bitcoin would hit 1K dollars, they are lying to you). Of course they will never accept it was luck, they will ramble from "skill" to "god wanted it to be like that" and so on. These guys usually become sort of gurus around here and tell other people to keep believing because they will be millonaires too if they wait enough (remember all these dumb failed predictions by rpietila?). It's a classic pyramidal scheme.
Sure, Bitcoin's technology is great, but greed of these that become very wealthy and the desperation of the 99% to become wealthy as well to scape the rat race, ruin everything as always. The system is fucked and no kind of currency can save it. We need a Resource Based Economy and worldwide education on science.

[brg444]

It's too bad that bitcoin allowed dedicated silicon (FPGA/ASIC) to participate.  If they had adapted to prevent it there still would be large farms of CPU/GPU miners.  But it would be a more level playing field and there would be more use of having that much computational power in play that could also be solving real problems and not just generating a lot of heat and having an overabundance of SHA256 brute force engines lying around.

But in reality it is almost impossible to create a proof-of-work mining algorythm that will forever remain ASIC-resistant so that point is moot

‏@Pierre_Rochard
Lastly, energy consumption by ASIC #bitcoin mining is not wasteful, energy consumption by those who whine about it is.

[brg444]

Absolutely. It was always a monopoly, first, the mining monopoly, then, the lucky investors monolopy. So we have KnC being the monolopy of the mining, and retards that have no idea what they are doing but found themselves on wealth by pure chance

 

do you believe all that shit you are writing

please tell me about the "original" mining monopoly  

please tell me about how KnC is a mining monopoly right now  

[labsbitforum]

It's too bad that bitcoin allowed dedicated silicon (FPGA/ASIC) to participate.  If they had adapted to prevent it there still would be large farms of CPU/GPU miners.  But it would be a more level playing field and there would be more use of having that much computational power in play that could also be solving real problems and not just generating a lot of heat and having an overabundance of SHA256 brute force engines lying around.

But in reality it is almost impossible to create a proof-of-work mining algorythm that will forever remain ASIC-resistant so that point is moot

I'm pretty sure someone will come up with a good solution.  Ethereum has a couple approaches that have merit and one will go in to practice soon.
https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/197/mining-faq-live-updates
https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/06/19/mining/

[brg444]

I'm pretty sure someone will come up with a good solution.  Ethereum has a couple approaches that have merit and one will go in to practice soon.
https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/197/mining-faq-live-updates
https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/06/19/mining/

So you agree that Bitcoin is good enough right now and all the other alternatives are still only "in theory"

[labsbitforum]

I'm pretty sure someone will come up with a good solution.  Ethereum has a couple approaches that have merit and one will go in to practice soon.
https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/197/mining-faq-live-updates
https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/06/19/mining/

So you agree that Bitcoin is good enough right now and all the other alternatives are still only "in theory"

Completely agree.

[sublime5447]

This is how bitcoin slowly dies from here.  What started as a chance for everyone to generate their own bitcoins and participate in the economy now turns to a few data centers producing bitcoins thus forcing new users to purchase new bitcoins from them.  We've traded fiat currency controlled by a few central banks to bitcoin controlled by a few data centers.

Meet the new 1%.  Slightly different to the old 1%, but they're still there.

If this turns into a giant downhill snowball effect & miners decide to cut losses btc will be finished... Maybe with a new all time low  

I've been saying this on the forums for a while.  These are the idiots that need to be driven out for bitcoin to rise again.  Until then, we will continue to go down.  Any time we drop, more will have to exit to cut their losses, and the more exit, the more bitcoin value will drop... and that's the exact snowball effect that you're talking about.  I wholeheartedly agree - it's inevitable.  

I don't think bitcoin would be finished, but we will hit a new 'all time' low.  Not early day prices, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get to $40-$50 by mid-2105.  The mentality of basing mining businesses on the assumption that bitcoin prices will always rise - that mentality must die.  That mentality is what keeps bitcoin from being treated as a currency, it creates an environment for encouraging scams, thefts, etc.  

It's kind of ironic that this is in the Speculation forum, because I personally think Speculation is what holds bitcoin back.  

Bitcoin is not currency its a digital collectible. It is the equivalent of a digital baseball card. A lot of people around here dont see that as a problem, but if your goal is mass adoption or price stability it's a massive problem.    

[raid_n]

Bitcoin is not currency its a digital collectible. It is the equivalent of a digital baseball card. A lot of people around here dont see that as a problem, but if your goal is mass adoption or price stability it's a massive problem.    

Your analogy makes no sense to me. If you compare bitcoin to a government backed currency whose use they enforce then yes, it is probably harder to convince someone why they should use it.
Either you want massive external control and intervention (then you might get your stability and possibly adoption) or you want something decentralized and have to accept that your control options are limited.

Value always lies in the eye of the beholder so although you may think your precious paper bill of legal tender from country a is worth x, it is only because the current circumstances make you (and others) believe so.
Just look at extreme situations such as natural disasters etc. Suddenly your currency might be nothing more than a piece of paper, a collectible, yet that bottle of fresh water becomes a desirable trade good.

[labsbitforum]

It's too bad that bitcoin allowed dedicated silicon (FPGA/ASIC) to participate.  If they had adapted to prevent it there still would be large farms of CPU/GPU miners.  But it would be a more level playing field and there would be more use of having that much computational power in play that could also be solving real problems and not just generating a lot of heat and having an overabundance of SHA256 brute force engines lying around.

But in reality it is almost impossible to create a proof-of-work mining algorythm that will forever remain ASIC-resistant so that point is moot

I'm pretty sure someone will come up with a good solution.  Ethereum has a couple approaches that have merit and one will go in to practice soon.
https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/197/mining-faq-live-updates
https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/06/19/mining/

You have got to be joking.  Ethereum was one of the biggest scams in the history of alt-coins.  Hope you didn't get burned.

Everything I have read and watched about what they are doing and the people involved leads me to believe the are 100% legit.  I think their goals are ambitious and complex.  Time will tell if they produce a viable decentralized crypto currency.  Just calling them "one of the biggest scams in the history of alt-coins" with no basis is pointless FUD.

If you are going to chime in, by all means enlighten us.

[sublime5447]

Bitcoin is not currency its a digital collectible. It is the equivalent of a digital baseball card. A lot of people around here dont see that as a problem, but if your goal is mass adoption or price stability it's a massive problem.    

Your analogy makes no sense to me. If you compare bitcoin to a government backed currency whose use they enforce then yes, it is probably harder to convince someone why they should use it.
Either you want massive external control and intervention (then you might get your stability and possibly adoption) or you want something decentralized and have to accept that your control options are limited.

Value always lies in the eye of the beholder so although you may think your precious paper bill of legal tender from country a is worth x, it is only because the current circumstances make you (and others) believe so.
Just look at extreme situations such as natural disasters etc. Suddenly your currency might be nothing more than a piece of paper, a collectible, yet that bottle of fresh water becomes a desirable trade good.

Yeah you're not telling me anything.

Just because its decentralized doesn't mean it can't have price stability.

 Two Kinds of Money

1.The Scarcity Model: A single uniform quantity in limited supply made valuable by its own scarcity.
In other words, the value of this type of money depends on the supply of, and demand for, the money commodity itself. Conventional definitions of money define money only in terms of this model, a "medium of exchange". Examples are: cowries, gold and silver, fiat cash and coins, bank credit, and now, in the model's purest and most spectacularly speculative form, Bitcoin.

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems.

[MrBig]

Rumors are circulating that some of the large pools are planning to shut down due to the impending government regulations.

There's also rumors that certain cloud mining services are not actually mining with investor btc, but running a ponzi scheme.

[raid_n]

Yeah you're not telling me anything.

Just because its decentralized doesn't mean it can't have price stability.

[snip]

To be honest I do not care what you think about bitcoin or what solutions you advocate for an ideal form of money (http://paulgrignon.netfirms.com/MoneyasDebt/MAD2014/solution.htm , this is you right?)
Bitcoin is not forced onto you and you probably do not see the advantages of an open, decentralized system where ownership of abstract units is recorded.
It is an algorithmic construct and not some monetary policy.

Muse all you want on how to create an ideal form of money, in the meantime technology will advance and do its own thing.
It is kind of like the legal system trying to figure out how to deal with intellectual property in the digital age while p2p filesharing as a technology already exists and evolves.

[sublime5447]

Yeah you're not telling me anything.

Just because its decentralized doesn't mean it can't have price stability.

[snip]

To be honest I do not care what you think about bitcoin or what solutions you advocate for an ideal form of money (http://paulgrignon.netfirms.com/MoneyasDebt/MAD2014/solution.htm , this is you right?)
Bitcoin is not forced onto you and you probably do not see the advantages of an open, decentralized system where ownership of abstract units is recorded.
It is an algorithmic construct and not some monetary policy.

Muse all you want on how to create an ideal form of money, in the meantime technology will advance and do its own thing.
It is kind of like the legal system trying to figure out how to deal with intellectual property in the digital age while p2p filesharing as a technology already exists and evolves.

God damn bro, no I am not Paul Grignon. Watch money as debt. You dont know how stupid you sound and yes I support decentralized systems bitcoin isnt one.     

[FattyMcButterpants]

Rumors are circulating that some of the large pools are planning to shut down due to the impending government regulations.

There's also rumors that certain cloud mining services are not actually mining with investor btc, but running a ponzi scheme.

BTCguild is shutting down/being sold although not because of government regulations but because large farms are not using their pool.

I would say that the larger cloud mining services are likely not running a ponzi as it can be shown that their equipment is actually finding new blocks and their payouts can be traced back to the coinbase transactions of these founds blocks

[Jeremias]

Rumors are circulating that some of the large pools are planning to shut down due to the impending government regulations.

There's also rumors that certain cloud mining services are not actually mining with investor btc, but running a ponzi scheme.

BTCguild is shutting down/being sold although not because of government regulations but because large farms are not using their pool.

I would say that the larger cloud mining services are likely not running a ponzi as it can be shown that their equipment is actually finding new blocks and their payouts can be traced back to the coinbase transactions of these founds blocks

Why don't people go in for load balance and use a quota rotation, that eases the variance and increase luck factor as well as dependence on a large mining farm.

[mavericklm]

Stop crying and wait for the halving!