Powercolor 7990

[Lethos]

4x7970 system = ~$2000. Generates ~2800 MH/s. Would need about 9 of these systems to make 25GH/s. Total cost = $18k. After a year of mining, I could still sell my 36 7970s for ~$300 each for ~$11k recovered.


Thus you are really comparing the total cost of owning:

25GH/s for a year in GPUs for $8000.

vs

25GH/s into perpetuity for $15300.

I dont know about you but at this point the risk in bitcoin going belly-up and FPGAs being worthless is too high for me.

I would consider FPGAs only after the reward halving and watching if the market responds appropriately. Even then it would take a process advantage (ie. the first good 28 nm FPGA) before I buy in.

You forgot the SMALL factor of paying for electricity of 9 x quad 7970 Rigs for a straight year.

Kinda hard to ignore ~9000 Watts (Just the GPU's) because lets face it if you quoted overclocked MH/s ratings for those cards, it's going to be running hot and close to 250w per card, especially when you take into account PSU efficiency.
At UK rates, that many GPU's would cost me about £0.90 per hour. Holy crap on a stick, it ends up costing abit under £8000 for a year of electricity just on the GPU, not counting the other parts. That would not work out very well here to your profit margin.
Especially since you still got to take into account massive amounts of heat and noise. About half of those 9000W will be heat, maybe more, so that is enough to heat the average 4 bedroom house in a really bad winter (-10c), you'd be baking cookies if you did this setup without a really good A/C (multiple). Something not so much of a concern with FPGA's, with energy consumption as much as 1/10th of GPU's. There is other parts to buy, but you could say the same about FPGA's.

Starting to wonder if I even did my sums right... but 24/7 operation of 9KW is kinda expected to cost a lot, when your paying 10 pence per kwh.

Ya I was trying to be sarcastic about the small part. In my post right after that one I ran the numbers, and got similar results as you.

Oh I knew you was being sarcastic. Just scary to think of having a energy bill that high.
Think I'd freak if I saw every month it was costing me £666 a month :O I'm pretty sure my energy supplier would wonder what is going on too.

[1714946860]

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[1714946860]

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[1714946860]

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[crazyates]

To get back on topic. I just read an article with that same cooler for a 7970 ghz edition. They might use it for a 7990. I also just read that they will be making 7970X2 cards to compete with the 690.
http://www.techpowerup.com/166554/PowerColor-Teases-with-Vortex-III-Cooling-Solution.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/166643/AMD-AIB-Partners-Said-to-be-Working-on-quot-HD-7970-X2-quot-.html

Sorry we did kinda highjack for a while...

So we're gonna have a 7970 X2, AND a 7990 that are both dual 7970 GPUs? I see this as a bad idea...

[rjk]

To get back on topic. I just read an article with that same cooler for a 7970 ghz edition. They might use it for a 7990. I also just read that they will be making 7970X2 cards to compete with the 690.
http://www.techpowerup.com/166554/PowerColor-Teases-with-Vortex-III-Cooling-Solution.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/166643/AMD-AIB-Partners-Said-to-be-Working-on-quot-HD-7970-X2-quot-.html

Sorry we did kinda highjack for a while...

So we're gonna have a 7970 X2, AND a 7990 that are both dual 7970 GPUs? I see this as a bad idea...

Sounds like it will be the 7990 like the 5970, and the 7970 X2 being like the 5970 ARES edition. So one efficient and fitting within the PCIe power envelope, and the other crazy insane and sucking down more power than a refrigerator (literally).

[BR0KK]

4x7970 system = ~$2000. Generates ~2800 MH/s. Would need about 9 of these systems to make 25GH/s. Total cost = $18k. After a year of mining, I could still sell my 36 7970s for ~$300 each for ~$11k recovered.


Thus you are really comparing the total cost of owning:

25GH/s for a year in GPUs for $8000.

vs

25GH/s into perpetuity for $15300.

I dont know about you but at this point the risk in bitcoin going belly-up and FPGAs being worthless is too high for me.

I would consider FPGAs only after the reward halving and watching if the market responds appropriately. Even then it would take a process advantage (ie. the first good 28 nm FPGA) before I buy in.

You forgot the SMALL factor of paying for electricity of 9 x quad 7970 Rigs for a straight year.

Kinda hard to ignore ~9000 Watts (Just the GPU's) because lets face it if you quoted overclocked MH/s ratings for those cards, it's going to be running hot and close to 250w per card, especially when you take into account PSU efficiency.
At UK rates, that many GPU's would cost me about £0.90 per hour. Holy crap on a stick, it ends up costing abit under £8000 for a year of electricity just on the GPU, not counting the other parts. That would not work out very well here to your profit margin.
Especially since you still got to take into account massive amounts of heat and noise. About half of those 9000W will be heat, maybe more, so that is enough to heat the average 4 bedroom house in a really bad winter (-10c), you'd be baking cookies if you did this setup without a really good A/C (multiple). Something not so much of a concern with FPGA's, with energy consumption as much as 1/10th of GPU's. There is other parts to buy, but you could say the same about FPGA's.

Starting to wonder if I even did my sums right... but 24/7 operation of 9KW is kinda expected to cost a lot, when your paying 10 pence per kwh.

Ya I was trying to be sarcastic about the small part. In my post right after that one I ran the numbers, and got similar results as you.

Oh I knew you was being sarcastic. Just scary to think of having a energy bill that high.
Think I'd freak if I saw every month it was costing me £666 a month :O I'm pretty sure my energy supplier would wonder what is going on too.

Rhere were already some cases of that sort.

The police went into a house because the thought the guy had a MJane growing farm....Surprisingly the only found a bunch of pcs runing there, and thats not illegal Some suppliers are watching enery bills and report them to authorities.

[crazyates]

4x7970 system = ~$2000. Generates ~2800 MH/s. Would need about 9 of these systems to make 25GH/s. Total cost = $18k. After a year of mining, I could still sell my 36 7970s for ~$300 each for ~$11k recovered.


Thus you are really comparing the total cost of owning:

25GH/s for a year in GPUs for $8000.

vs

25GH/s into perpetuity for $15300.

I dont know about you but at this point the risk in bitcoin going belly-up and FPGAs being worthless is too high for me.

I would consider FPGAs only after the reward halving and watching if the market responds appropriately. Even then it would take a process advantage (ie. the first good 28 nm FPGA) before I buy in.

You forgot the SMALL factor of paying for electricity of 9 x quad 7970 Rigs for a straight year.

Kinda hard to ignore ~9000 Watts (Just the GPU's) because lets face it if you quoted overclocked MH/s ratings for those cards, it's going to be running hot and close to 250w per card, especially when you take into account PSU efficiency.
At UK rates, that many GPU's would cost me about £0.90 per hour. Holy crap on a stick, it ends up costing abit under £8000 for a year of electricity just on the GPU, not counting the other parts. That would not work out very well here to your profit margin.
Especially since you still got to take into account massive amounts of heat and noise. About half of those 9000W will be heat, maybe more, so that is enough to heat the average 4 bedroom house in a really bad winter (-10c), you'd be baking cookies if you did this setup without a really good A/C (multiple). Something not so much of a concern with FPGA's, with energy consumption as much as 1/10th of GPU's. There is other parts to buy, but you could say the same about FPGA's.

Starting to wonder if I even did my sums right... but 24/7 operation of 9KW is kinda expected to cost a lot, when your paying 10 pence per kwh.

Ya I was trying to be sarcastic about the small part. In my post right after that one I ran the numbers, and got similar results as you.

Oh I knew you was being sarcastic. Just scary to think of having a energy bill that high.
Think I'd freak if I saw every month it was costing me £666 a month :O I'm pretty sure my energy supplier would wonder what is going on too.

Rhere were already some cases of that sort.

The police went into a house because the thought the guy had a MJane growing farm....Surprisingly the only found a bunch of pcs runing there, and thats not illegal Some suppliers are watching enery bills and report them to authorities.

Haha I read about that! They said his "sustained increase in electricity" was very similar to an indoor farm and caused suspicion.

[cmg5461]

Did a Google news search for "Radeon 7990" limiting results published in the last 24 hours.

This came up: (Appears to be legit? - multiple search results have this)

http://www.pc-max.de/news/grafikkarten/zeigt-powercolor-ein-erstes-bild-der-radeon-hd-7990

It's a 7970 X2 by powercolor's standards. 

This isn't the 7990 released by AMD yet, however it most likely beats anyway.

Similar to the 6870 x2 by powercolor.  Their own PCB's - But they have loads of problems.

[bulanula]

I'll give you the other points as valid concerns, esp coming up toward summer, but no resale value? Really? Video cards have an entire other market that coexists (or overlaps, depending on how you look at it) with miners: gamers. You can always sell video cards. FPGAs? There is no other market for crazy fast SHA256 hashers.

I can sorta see where ur coming from, but I think you have it all wrong...

People are paying insane amounts for a BFL single right now.

Some people ordered them when they looked like a scam. Now if you want to have a single tomorrow you need to pay like $800 or more. Their value is increased compared to initial cost to buy the FPGA ( $599 ).

I would love to see you buy a 7970 from the egg for $450 and sell it on here for $650 or something.

FPGA has resale value as long as BTC is not dead ...

[imsaguy]

I'll give you the other points as valid concerns, esp coming up toward summer, but no resale value? Really? Video cards have an entire other market that coexists (or overlaps, depending on how you look at it) with miners: gamers. You can always sell video cards. FPGAs? There is no other market for crazy fast SHA256 hashers.

I can sorta see where ur coming from, but I think you have it all wrong...

People are paying insane amounts for a BFL single right now.

Some people ordered them when they looked like a scam. Now if you want to have a single tomorrow you need to pay like $800 or more. Their value is increased compared to initial cost to buy the FPGA ( $599 ).

I would love to see you buy a 7970 from the egg for $450 and sell it on here for $650 or something.

FPGA has resale value as long as BTC is not dead ...

Why would you resell the FPGA as long as BTC is not dead?  You buy it for the mining.  They can only be flipped so many times before the price for flipping is so high that you're back at the only reason you'd guy it is for mining.

[cmg5461]

1. Buy 20 BFL singles
2. Sell on these forums
3.
4. Profit!

[Tomatocage]

People are paying insane amounts for a BFL single right now.

Some people ordered them when they looked like a scam. Now if you want to have a single tomorrow you need to pay like $800 or more. Their value is increased compared to initial cost to buy the FPGA ( $599 ).

I would love to see you buy a 7970 from the egg for $450 and sell it on here for $650 or something.

FPGA has resale value as long as BTC is not dead ...

ROFL you act like that's a GOOD thing.  If anything that just makes the price/performance ratio even WORSE than it already is 

[crazyates]

People are paying insane amounts for a BFL single right now.

Some people ordered them when they looked like a scam. Now if you want to have a single tomorrow you need to pay like $800 or more. Their value is increased compared to initial cost to buy the FPGA ( $599 ).

I would love to see you buy a 7970 from the egg for $450 and sell it on here for $650 or something.

FPGA has resale value as long as BTC is not dead ...

ROFL you act like that's a GOOD thing.  If anything that just makes the price/performance ratio even WORSE than it already is 

Wait, people buying them for 600 to sell for 800 are making those who just want to mine spend more money, and that isn't a good thing for the overall market?! Shocking!

[AzN1337c0d3r]

Regarding this post, it is very misleading:

1. Assuming you buy a HD7970 at $500 each, it does not mean 4 GPUs = $2000. At best you need a $250 motherboard + $100 of other components, and a $250 power supply to run 4 GPUs per system, so 4 GPUs become more like $2600. So for hardware alone at $15300 you are looking at most 24 GPUs which will give just under 17GH/s assuming you overclock them a bit, which bring to problems 2 ...

7970s are basically at the $400 mark now if you know where to look. I dont know what kind of miners you build, but $250 motherboards seem kind of excessive. You can easily build a 1200W system for $400 without GPUs. So the $2000 estimate is correct.

2. With that many GPUs you are looking at atleast 6000watts of heat, so you will have to allocate an entire room and maybe install an air conditioning unit, which raises the cost even higher. Personally I don't have a spare room in London, if I did I could rent it out for atleast $140 per week.

Why would you install an A/C unit for this? Just vent all the air outside.

3. With 6000 watts power consumption you really need free electricity to make any decent profit, if any profit at all, assuming your sockets can handle that much load.

Actually revenue from mining is something like 3x what the electricity cost is right now (@ 11c/kwh). I'll let you do the math on this one.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You forgot the SMALL factor of paying for electricity of 9 x quad 7970 Rigs for a straight year.

at 700MH/s for each card, you're not talking about a lot of undervolting. Each of those cards will pull ~250Watt at those speeds, is that correct? That means prolly around 1.2KW for each rig?

1.2KW * 9 rigs = 10.8KW
10.8KW * 24 hours in day = 259.2 KWh
259.2KWh * 11cents/KWh = 28.51 $ a day
$28 * 365 days = 10,406 USD.

Even if you have "free electicity", someone is paying that 10k in electricity costs...

Actually "free electricity" is possible with no one else burdening the cost by installing solar panels. Obviously a large investment initially, but you get free power into perpetuity.

Let's entertain the cost of power however. You are roughly correct in terms of most of the numbers. However, I hope to god if you're paying for 9kW of power you're not doing it at residential rates, It's more like 7c/kwh here at most. Which turns out to be $6622.

The BFL mini-rig, even if you could get it to qualify for the same rates as the GPUs cost $735.84.

I also noticed that I made an error and typed $8000 for GPU depreciation instead of $7000 like I originally intended. So I will revise my original estimates:

25GH/s for a year in GPUs for $13600 (7000+6600). If bitcoin goes belly-up you can recoup your investment for $11000.

vs

25GH/s into perpetuity for $16000 (15300+700). If bitcoin goes belly-up you recoup your investment for $0.

[AzN1337c0d3r]

Another thing I forgot to mention is that the ability to dump your GPUs after a year is actually very flexible.

The reason is because you scale with Moore's law.

In my example, my GPUs depreciate about $100 after a year. Given that I have 36 of them, I lose about $3600/year.

However, given Moore's law that computational power doubles every 2 years, I basically pay only $7200 to have my computational power double.

It is up for debate whether Moore's law will continue for the far future, however it seems pretty clear for at least another 2-3 nodes, it will hold.

[oldDirty]

Did a Google news search for "Radeon 7990" limiting results published in the last 24 hours.

This came up: (Appears to be legit? - multiple search results have this)

http://www.pc-max.de/news/grafikkarten/zeigt-powercolor-ein-erstes-bild-der-radeon-hd-7990

It's a 7970 X2 by powercolor's standards. 

This isn't the 7990 released by AMD yet, however it most likely beats anyway.

Yea that what i read too, because AMD launchdate for 7990 is very imprecise, so that some Boardpartner are creating a 7970x2.

[seriouscoin]

Stuff

I kinda expect alot more accurate math from a asian. Maybe you should change your username (which is also very amusing btw)

You then back pedaling your math with bunch of assumptions. I guess thats how you "aced" your math in school huh?


You know what, fuck all this pricing bs, i will go straight to being Newegg owner and own a datacenter, fuck all of you bitcoin miners.

This is coming from a guy with one watercooled gaming rig and one dedicated 5850s minging rig, not even owning a mining farm.
 

[AzN1337c0d3r]

No actually, I own only about 10 machines with dual Xeons in them... just that they dont mine.

Of course if you think the numbers are wrong, maybe you should just point it out?

[seriouscoin]

No actually, I own only about 10 machines with dual Xeons in them... just that they dont mine.

Of course if you think the numbers are wrong, maybe you should just point it out?

Lovely, lets also assume each GPU is watercooled as well (since you just pulled 2800MHash/s) But thats ok, i'm the owner of Koolance.

What the point when you can just assume i paid $0.07/Kwh, get whole sale price for parts and a datacenter equivalent of power grid.

I would love to see where do you live that you can pull 9Kw of power without major rewiring.

You argue you rather operate a delivering business by using 10 Civics instead of one Semi-truck.

Its amusing when you can get the civics at dealer cost as well..

Then complete omit the management cost, drivers' salaries and maintenance cost.

[Tomatocage]

No actually, I own only about 10 machines with dual Xeons in them... just that they dont mine.

Of course if you think the numbers are wrong, maybe you should just point it out?

Lovely, lets also assume each GPU is watercooled as well (since you just pulled 2800MHash/s) But thats ok, i'm the owner of Koolance.

What the point when you can just assume i paid $0.07/Kwh, get whole sale price for parts and a datacenter equivalent of power grid.

I would love to see where do you live that you can pull 9Kw of power without major rewiring.

You argue you rather operate a delivering business by using 10 Civics instead of one Semi-truck.

Its amusing when you can get the civics at dealer cost as well..

Then complete omit the management cost, drivers' salaries and maintenance cost.

lol holy shit bro, you're a fucking moron rofl

[MrTeal]

No actually, I own only about 10 machines with dual Xeons in them... just that they dont mine.

Of course if you think the numbers are wrong, maybe you should just point it out?

Lovely, lets also assume each GPU is watercooled as well (since you just pulled 2800MHash/s) But thats ok, i'm the owner of Koolance.

What the point when you can just assume i paid $0.07/Kwh, get whole sale price for parts and a datacenter equivalent of power grid.

I would love to see where do you live that you can pull 9Kw of power without major rewiring.

You argue you rather operate a delivering business by using 10 Civics instead of one Semi-truck.

Its amusing when you can get the civics at dealer cost as well..

Then complete omit the management cost, drivers' salaries and maintenance cost.

9000W really isn't that much, it's only around 40A. I could easily install that on my existing panel without upgrading my service, and I don't even use electricity for heating. Dealing with 9000W of heat is a much bigger challenge that providing electricity to GPU farm.

[seriouscoin]

No actually, I own only about 10 machines with dual Xeons in them... just that they dont mine.

Of course if you think the numbers are wrong, maybe you should just point it out?

Lovely, lets also assume each GPU is watercooled as well (since you just pulled 2800MHash/s) But thats ok, i'm the owner of Koolance.

What the point when you can just assume i paid $0.07/Kwh, get whole sale price for parts and a datacenter equivalent of power grid.

I would love to see where do you live that you can pull 9Kw of power without major rewiring.

You argue you rather operate a delivering business by using 10 Civics instead of one Semi-truck.

Its amusing when you can get the civics at dealer cost as well..

Then complete omit the management cost, drivers' salaries and maintenance cost.

9000W really isn't that much, it's only around 40A. I could easily install that on my existing panel without upgrading my service, and I don't even use electricity for heating. Dealing with 9000W of heat is a much bigger challenge that providing electricity to GPU farm.

Not everyone use 240v. You might not need to upgrade your panel, but wiring isnt just your panel.