OPEN LETTER to Donald, Patrick & Amir RE: Bitcoinica

[Transisto]

At least 3 of us have tried to contact the liquidators, no answer.

What should liquidators be doing at this point ?

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[repentance]

At least 3 of us have tried to contact the liquidators, no answer.

What should liquidators be doing at this point ?

At this point they should be taking control of Bitcoinica's records and assets.

The liquidators must issue the first report to creditors within 25 business days of the company being put into liquidation - so by 6 December 2012 (I can't recall if NZ has had any public holidays in the last few weeks).  The first report to creditors usually has a claim form attached, advises the date by which claims must be lodged and gives information about how to contact the liquidator.

Here's an example of what a first report looks like (prepared by a different liquidator than the company which is handling the Bitcoinica liquidation but the basic requirements are essentially the same).

http://www.mvp.co.nz/media/reports/Active+Heating+Products+and+Services+Limited+(In+Liquidation)/first%20report.pdf

The liquidators should definitely be responding to contact from creditors, even if it's only a formula response saying when the creditors report will be issued and the date by which claims must be lodged.  If they aren't responding, I would keep a record of all attempts to contact them and I would probably contact them again specifically requesting a claim form and information about the cut-off date for claims.  "We'll get this information to all creditors by the first week of December" would be a reasonable response, but no response at all is simply unacceptable.

[MPOE-PR]

The liquidators should definitely be responding to contact from creditors, even if it's only a formula response saying when the creditors report will be issued and the date by which claims must be lodged.

I have no idea how it actually works in NZ but it may be the case that until such a time they've actually acquired the company books they're not held to answer to anyone's mail, whether they claim to be creditors or not. Obviously an auto-responder or something would be a lot nicer than just silence.

[ninjarobot]

Here's an example of what a first report looks like (prepared by a different liquidator than the company which is handling the Bitcoinica liquidation but the basic requirements are essentially the same).

http://www.mvp.co.nz/media/reports/Active+Heating+Products+and+Services+Limited+(In+Liquidation)/first%20report.pdf

Thanks Repentance. I really appreciate your continued support and insight in this affair! I also have not received any response yet from the Liquidator.

As to the creditor report & claim form. Is this typically sent to creditors by regular mail? Or might they send it by email as well?

I'm asking since I recently moved and am unable to update my records with Bitcoinica (for obvious reasons).

[guruvan]

maybe if you have usd dollars there you might eventually see something, but if you only had btc which most people did as it paid more interest I guarantee you won't get anything

part of nothing is still nothing. The likelihood of getting back either USD or BTC seems pretty remote....there really can't be much left after the owners liberated (Liberty Reserved?)  most of our money.

Would surprise me if I got back 1% of my USD.

[ninjarobot]

I finally got a reply from the Liquidator after a new attempt to contact them following the instructions posted by Repentance. I got permission to post it here:

Thank you for contacting us.  I apologise for the delay in responding to your email.
 
We confirm that we have been appointed liquidators of the Bitcoinica Limited Partnership, which is registered in New Zealand. We are currently collecting information and our immediate priority is securing the investor funds (in both cash and Bitcoins) and determining investor balances. It is too early to know how long the liquidation process will take, but we would like to move as quickly as possible towards a distribution to investors/creditors.
 
With this in mind, we would be grateful if all investors and creditors could email us and provide their address and contact details, as well as details of any amounts owed to them and proof of the claim. Also the Liquidators’ first report is due to be sent to all creditors by 26 November 2012, but we are unable to do so if we do not have contact details for creditors or investors.
 
We would also appreciate feedback from investors on whether they would prefer to receive a distribution in the form of Bitcoins (where possible) or whether they would prefer a straightforward cash distribution. We are still seeking to determine what options are available to us at law, and will let investors know in due course.
 
Lastly, we are aware of legal proceedings underway in California against the Limited Partnership. The Liquidators have sought to have the Limited Partnership withdrawn from the proceedings on the basis that it is in liquidation. We urge creditors/investors to refrain from taking any legal action against Bitcoinica, as it will simply add to the plaintiffs costs with no benefit. Any legal claims against Bitcoinica would need to be made in the New Zealand Courts. Judgements against the Limited Partnership in any foreign jurisdiction will not be recognised by the liquidators.
 
Please contact me directly if you have any queries or wish to bring any matters to the liquidators’ attention.

and

Hi,
 
We are attempting to post our response to the bitcoinica forum, however we are having difficulty in submitting a post at this stage.  We are happy for you to forward this on to the forum until we are able to do so.
 
Thanks
 
Kind Regards
Taslim Bhamji
Senior Insolvency Administrator

If you are a creditor you can contact Taslim directly at Taslim[dot]Bhamji[at]pkfcr[dot]co[dot]nz (please be civil)

[repentance]

Here's an example of what a first report looks like (prepared by a different liquidator than the company which is handling the Bitcoinica liquidation but the basic requirements are essentially the same).

http://www.mvp.co.nz/media/reports/Active+Heating+Products+and+Services+Limited+(In+Liquidation)/first%20report.pdf

Thanks Repentance. I really appreciate your continued support and insight in this affair! I also have not received any response yet from the Liquidator.

As to the creditor report & claim form. Is this typically sent to creditors by regular mail? Or might they send it by email as well?

I'm asking since I recently moved and am unable to update my records with Bitcoinica (for obvious reasons).

It depends on the liquidator.  Some set up an online claims process and some don't - I'd be a little surprised if they didn't in this case because the window for lodging claims is often quite short and nobody's going to want to deal with the headaches of lost or delayed snail mail.  Very often reports to creditors are made by email these days, but I'm pretty sure that you can elect to receive them by snail mail.

I admit that I'm very curious to see who waives their claims in liquidation and to what extent - it will have a significant impact on the funds which will be available to the liquidator for distribution to unsecured creditors.

It's probably worth pointing out that although some liquidators ask for proof of claim to be submitted with the claim, the claims aren't generally formally validated until the liquidator is ready to make disbursements.  This is to save on liquidator fees.

Also, perhaps you could email Taslim back and advise him to ask the mods to be whitelisted.  He won't be able to post outside Newbies otherwise.

Also, can I suggest copying your post with the liquidator's reply into a new thread with an attention-grabbing title which makes clear that the liquidator is seeking contact from Bitcoinica users (maybe "Bitcoinica liquidator wants to hear from users" or something similar).  People have become jaded by these old threads going nowhere so they might not check them for updates.

[ninjarobot]

Also, perhaps you could email Taslim back and advise him to ask the mods to be whitelisted.  He won't be able to post outside Newbies otherwise.

Also, can I suggest copying your post with the liquidator's reply into a new thread with an attention-grabbing title which makes clear that the liquidator is seeking contact from Bitcoinica users (maybe "Bitcoinica liquidator wants to hear from users" or something similar).  People have become jaded by these old threads going nowhere so they might not check them for updates.

Done and Done. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126847.0

[MPOE-PR]

part of nothing is still nothing. The likelihood of getting back either USD or BTC seems pretty remote....there really can't be much left after the owners liberated (Liberty Reserved?)  most of our money.

Would surprise me if I got back 1% of my USD.

Always look on the bright side of life: maybe there's enough to cover most of the liquidator's fee.

[repentance]

Always look on the bright side of life: maybe there's enough to cover most of the liquidator's fee.

It's not going to help that the funds taken during the MtGox intrusion were returned largely in $.

40,000 BTC and USD 40,000 went missing.  At today's price of USD 11.70 that's a total of USD 508,000.

According to Patrick Murck, USD 100,000 and 20,000 BTC were returned, for a total of USD 334,000.

Of course there are still funds frozen on AurumXchange which Zhou said on the one hand belonged to a friend and on the other hand said could be returned to MtGox.  God knows whether AurumXchange will release those to the liquidator given that Zhou claimed they weren't his.  And we don't know how much was in the MtGox account at the time of the intrusion (but presume that it was roughly enough to cover claims at the rate of USD 5 per BTC which was applied when the refund process began).

[disclaimer201]

So, is it time to send the same emails we have received from Bitcoinica and the emails about the claim process to above address? Or is it still too early for that?

What is meant by creditors? People who had money or Bitcoins on bitcoinica?

[repentance]

So, is it time to send the same emails we have received from Bitcoinica and the emails about the claim process to above address? Or is it still too early for that?

What is meant by creditors? People who had money or Bitcoins on bitcoinica?

They don't know who is owed money so you need to contact them.  They've asked for evidence of what you're owed so send them whatever you have which helps establish that.  Yes, a creditor is someone who is owed funds by Bitcoinica.  They may have creditors apart from Bitcoinica users.

[osmosis]

So, is it time to send the same emails we have received from Bitcoinica and the emails about the claim process to above address? Or is it still too early for that?

What is meant by creditors? People who had money or Bitcoins on bitcoinica?

They don't know who is owed money so you need to contact them.  They've asked for evidence of what you're owed so send them whatever you have which helps establish that.  Yes, a creditor is someone who is owed funds by Bitcoinica.  They may have creditors apart from Bitcoinica users.

How do we contact them?

[repentance]

So, is it time to send the same emails we have received from Bitcoinica and the emails about the claim process to above address? Or is it still too early for that?

What is meant by creditors? People who had money or Bitcoins on bitcoinica?

They don't know who is owed money so you need to contact them.  They've asked for evidence of what you're owed so send them whatever you have which helps establish that.  Yes, a creditor is someone who is owed funds by Bitcoinica.  They may have creditors apart from Bitcoinica users.

How do we contact them?

Taslim[dot]Bhamji[at]pkfcr[dot]co[dot]nz

It's probably best to look for updates in the new thread which ninjarobot created as that's specifically about the liquidation and the information the liquidator needs.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126847.0