Bitcoin Foundation to repair relationship with community

[lightningmccoin]

Lol.. was it destroyed?

[pissedoff]

One of the best thing to happen to Bitcoin is being detached from the foundation.

[Spendulus]

Despite these half measures the true problem is they are trying to be the voice for a decentralized project with a centralized and hierarchical representation which is damaging in itself. The best thing they can do is fragment into multiple organizations not centrally managed and controlled by any one president. 

Really?

Much of the evidence shows that they (the board members) have simply sought to enrich themselves, often in very questionable ways.

[Gleb Gamow]

I don't think many/any foundation (or similar entity that accepts donations) is ever going to be willing to give refunds in the way that you request.

I find "traditional establishments would never do this" to be a particularly uncompelling argument within the bitcoin space. The whole point of bitcoin should be to NOT make the same mistakes of traditional institutions.

From this perspective, the foundation has failed so far. When their chief scientist abandoned them, and stated reasons like lack of transparency, that was a major red flag for me - and should be for any bitcoiner.

Any establishment/institution still needs to follow the basic principles of economics. It simply does not make any sense for TBF to refund any donation they have received as they have already budged for the money they have been given.

I am certainly not defending any of their actions, as I am not in any way a supporter of them, but I do think that to ask to have donations refunded would be something that is very unlikely.

If Bitcoin is the new paradigm in showing the world how a better system of things could improve their lives, and TBF has opted to be the governing body that speaks in behalf of that swift, then wouldn't it have been wiser of them to simply honor one refund, whereupon two to three more memberships would taken their place due to their kind gesture? The alternative is categorically state fuck you and the horse you came in on, thus amassing more discontent, then having to conduct an AMA on Reddit to save face after most its venerable members have flew the coop with the hope of future revenue flowing in to stay afloat.

[QuestionAuthority]

Relationship with community? How can you destroy something you never had? Is the community in question the members of their little trade association? This thread should really be posted on their private forum. It doesn't effect us. We're only the users of Bitcoin. We don't really matter to them.

[TaunSew]

Relationship with community? How can you destroy something you never had? Is the community in question the members of their little trade association? This thread should really be posted on their private forum. It doesn't effect us. We're only the users of Bitcoin. We don't really matter to them.

Precisely.  The Bitcoin Foundation is anything but a foundation but a little trade association which hides in their own little corner of the internet.  It's best for the Bitcoin developers to ignore them and continue relying on their own medium of communication.

[Gleb Gamow]

Relationship with community? How can you destroy something you never had? Is the community in question the members of their little trade association? This thread should really be posted on their private forum. It doesn't effect us. We're only the users of Bitcoin. We don't really matter to them.

Precisely.  The Bitcoin Foundation is anything but a foundation but a little trade association which hides in their own little corner of the internet.  It's best for the Bitcoin developers to ignore them and continue relying on their own medium of communication.

Unless, that is, a dev rises to the top and is able to garner a six-figure salary.

[Probably]

Notably, former general counsel Murck acknowledged a need to repair the foundation's relationship with the bitcoin community, even if that meant sometimes adopting unpopular or controversial positions on some issues, and taking risks with communication and transparency to demonstrate honest engagement.

He wrote:

"That means we may not always say exactly the right thing and we might not always be on message, but we will be authentic in how we interact with the community in the future and I hope that you all get to know the people who work hard to make the foundation go."

So being "on message" is not being truthful and transparent? Cool story. Maybe that's your problem?

Adopting unpopular and controverial positions on some issues is why people loathe / don't give a shit about Bitcoin Foundation in the first place.


What propaganda is this? Stating something but meaning something else and separating messaging from mission = shitty foundation with alterior motives.

It isn't difficult. State your mission and then your roles within the organization is to exemplify the mission via action or clarify the mission to explain action.

There shouldn't be a disconnect with what you are stating and what you are doing.

[Probably]

When Andreas left the foundation, I requested a refund of my 0.3 BTC donation for lifetime membership. They denied my request.

Allowing refunds would be a great place to start building good will. Maybe if I like the new direction you take the foundation I'll donate again, but holding my donation hostage in an entity that has changed is not cool.

I don't think many/any foundation (or similar entity that accepts donations) is ever going to be willing to give refunds in the way that you request. When a foundation receives a donation they will plan their budget accordingly however if they were to honor requests to refund donations then they would have no way to make a budget.

What you are asking is also essentially that they buy people's trust

Yeah, well, most boards don't have "lifetime memberships" either. Maybe that's a pretty horrible idea?

Most boards work hand-in-glove with members at smaller, budgetable paces. They donate yearly or quarterly for their seat on the board. They sever ties by severing business propositions.

Do you realize how ridiculous it would be to say "OK, I'm going to provide my [utility service] to you at a discount forever, but I get to steer your organization for eternity as well" and PAY UP FRONT? Silly.

[Gleb Gamow]

When Andreas left the foundation, I requested a refund of my 0.3 BTC donation for lifetime membership. They denied my request.

Allowing refunds would be a great place to start building good will. Maybe if I like the new direction you take the foundation I'll donate again, but holding my donation hostage in an entity that has changed is not cool.

I don't think many/any foundation (or similar entity that accepts donations) is ever going to be willing to give refunds in the way that you request. When a foundation receives a donation they will plan their budget accordingly however if they were to honor requests to refund donations then they would have no way to make a budget.

What you are asking is also essentially that they buy people's trust

Yeah, well, most boards don't have "lifetime memberships" either. Maybe that's a pretty horrible idea?

Most boards work hand-in-glove with members at smaller, budgetable paces. They donate yearly or quarterly for their seat on the board. They sever ties by severing business propositions.

Do you realize how ridiculous it would be to say "OK, I'm going to provide my [utility service] to you at a discount forever, but I get to steer your organization for eternity as well" and PAY UP FRONT? Silly.

The USPS seems to think it's an excellent model:

[cbeast]

If a centralized organization to put  a face on Bitcoin was a good idea, then Satoshi Nakamoto would have come out to promote it.

[BitCoinNutJob]

Well they kinda have to repair relationship with community since the community funds them, they cease to function without us.

[inBitweTrust]

Really?

Much of the evidence shows that they (the board members) have simply sought to enrich themselves, often in very questionable ways.

Sociopaths and autocrats will always exist, create organizations, and be drawn to systems of power. Our goals should be on the constant struggle of questioning these forms of hierarchy and power and dismantling them as needed. Ignoring the threat does not stop them meeting with regulators and acting on behalf of Bitcoin. We would be better off appealing to their selfish interests by suggesting a more decentralized approach to the organization and how it could be an opportunity for growth. This doesn't mean I would respect or support any of the new fragments. Respect must be gained.

[alc]

When Andreas left the foundation, I requested a refund of my 0.3 BTC donation for lifetime membership. They denied my request.

Allowing refunds would be a great place to start building good will. Maybe if I like the new direction you take the foundation I'll donate again, but holding my donation hostage in an entity that has changed is not cool.

I don't think many/any foundation (or similar entity that accepts donations) is ever going to be willing to give refunds in the way that you request. When a foundation receives a donation they will plan their budget accordingly however if they were to honor requests to refund donations then they would have no way to make a budget.

What you are asking is also essentially that they buy people's trust

Yeah, well, most boards don't have "lifetime memberships" either. Maybe that's a pretty horrible idea?

Most boards work hand-in-glove with members at smaller, budgetable paces. They donate yearly or quarterly for their seat on the board. They sever ties by severing business propositions.

Do you realize how ridiculous it would be to say "OK, I'm going to provide my [utility service] to you at a discount forever, but I get to steer your organization for eternity as well" and PAY UP FRONT? Silly.

Well, maybe you expect to be able to claim a refund on every donation you make to a foundation, but I'd argue that you're misconstruing the concepts of "donation" and "foundation". Irrespective of where you stand on the Bitcoin Foundation (they're due their share of criticism, it seems), it is unreasonable to expect donations to be refundable in perpetuity.

(As an aside to Beliathon, I have often enjoyed reading your posts in the past - please don't take this as a personal attack.)

[Beliathon]

I don't think many/any foundation (or similar entity that accepts donations) is ever going to be willing to give refunds in the way that you request.

I find "traditional establishments would never do this" to be a particularly uncompelling argument within the bitcoin space. The whole point of bitcoin should be to NOT make the same mistakes of traditional institutions.

From this perspective, the foundation has failed so far. When their chief scientist abandoned them, and stated reasons like lack of transparency, that was a major red flag for me - and should be for any bitcoiner.

Who do you mean by that?

Andreas

[CIYAM]

Andreas

He was never their *chief scientist* (that is Gavin's title).

[Beliathon]

Andreas

He was never their *chief scientist* (that is Gavin's title).

Ah, my mistake.

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112042/andreas-m-antonopoulos-leaves-bitcoin-foundation-not-happy-with-management

[Feri22]

Let's hope it is not too late yet...

[Gleb Gamow]

Game on!

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ldjk7/hello_rbitcoin_im_patrick_murck_executive/clttx4a

I just took the time to read all the comments to date to see if a certain concern had been addressed, opting to not search the page.

Sadly, it had not, but at least I was amused with all the softball questions that I can't help myself from thinking some were contrived beforehand to control the narrative.

KnC Miner.

KnC Miner and The Bitcoin Foundation are on record in stating that the former paid the $100K USD fee to become a Platinum Member of TBF. TBF ONLY accepts memberships fees via a dedicated bitcoin wallet address, but said fee amount is nowhere to be found.

In spite of all the scuttlebutt on BitcoinTalk, TBF had yet to address concerns about said payment, in spite of such being an important issue at the time due to now/then KnC gaining unique voting rights for the then upcoming elections for vacated board seats in which Bobby Lee and Brock Pierce won.

Question: Where's the proof that KnC Miner truly did pay for their Platinum Member to join The Bitcoin Foundation, given that such is no state secret because bitcoins were supposed to be used and full-transparency is what TBF adheres to?

~Bruno Kucinskas

[HWoodrow]

It's very hard for bitcoin foundation to repair relationship with community because you have to consider that some people which is in bitcoin foundation is in arrest state now.