BitBay | Decentralized Marketplace | Unmoderated Thread

[JohnTheSalch]

It is impossible to go below the peg price since the supply is simply locked. A series of rules forces people to use scripts and those rules are enforced by miners. Not only is there a video on it, but im always willing to discuss it as well.

You're only talking about supply. I watched that but it only describes the mechanics of controlling the supply.

You don't control a price by controlling supply. You still need the guy on the other side of the trade to click the "buy" button. How does that fit into the scheme of things ? How to you make him buy having jacked the price up many thousands of a percent from where it is now and given him umpteen incentives to run a mile from a currency who's velocity is so heavily rigged ?

History is littered with central planners that wanted to control the economy and failed.  Central controllers that think they know better than the market.  
This sounds like something that should be called CommieCoin lol.

[barabbas]

You all should not let you fool by barabbas aka IconicExpert. Either he have interests in getting this coin cheap or he is pissed because nobody want to buy his Bytecent scam and Bay is stealing volume on his coin  

How much of a retard can you be? BYC is trading at 100% plus its ICO price and hss never even come near its ICO price since the mess of a launch that it was. Amzing, simply amazing...

And not only was I the strongest critic of IE's pretending that the mess of the launch was "normal", but actually forced the refund from bittrex... which I took... by the way not my most brilliant decision since I could have more than trple my investment.

You must be some new kind of stupid, really.

Call me stupid but I have seen your posts in libertycoin thread as you forgot to log out and posted with your wrong ID. A lot of other people also seen it. You better make a new account bimbo. Your crap talk is not longer working here  

Now you are a NEW kind of stupid, undiscovered until now.

And a blatant liar.

But that would be the extent of my engaging. Over and out.

[toknormal]

It's fucking working: https://bter.com/trade/nbt_btc

That is quite impressive - it has converged on a dollar.  I wasn't aware of that.

But look at the volume - it's almost negligible once it converges on the peg. Clearly the valuation just ends up getting reflected in the liquidity instead of price. In other words, your holdings can theoretically be worth a million dollars but your lucky if you can realise 10 dollars of that in a year.

Would that not be the case ?

[JohnTheSalch]

It's fucking working: https://bter.com/trade/nbt_btc

That is quite impressive - it has converged on a dollar.  I wasn't aware of that.

But look at the volume - it's almost negligible once it converges on the peg. Clearly the valuation just ends up getting reflected in the liquidity instead of price. In other words, your holdings can theoretically be worth a million dollars but your lucky if you can realise 10 dollars of that in a year.

Would that not be the case ?

https://i.imgur.com/rgo8qv3.png

What's worse. That model seems to make more sense on a coin that is thought to be used as a store of value. But if a coin wants to be used on a Decentralized Marketplace, won't that dynamic you witnessed pretty much kill the operation?

[toknormal]

The thing that makes BitUSD work is that it accounts for demand as well as supply.

Demand is part of the peg model (and you do need those two things to fix a price).

The other thing about it is that it is free market driven - it isn't a price 'fix' as such but a natural confluence of two distinct market sectors: a risk market and a stable liquidity market. The risk market provides the collateral and is compensated with a risk return upon on adoption of the liquidity asset.

The liquidity market on the other hand (the real world economy which needs liquidity to do basic stuff like buy & sell goods and that isn't interested in risk assets) provides the demand for the collateralised asset. Everybody wins.

On the other hand the Nubits kind of peg looks like a Frankenstinien attempt to hammer a square peg into a round hole and keep it there. I don't see the ultimate advantage here but I'm not saying it may not have one. One thing's for sure, it sure ain't elegant from a market perspective.

It's a bit like fish. If all the fish in the sea were brought to market at once, there'd be over supply and a price crash. So the fish are brought in a trickle from the sea to market which restricts the supply and buoys the price. So I presume this is the model that's serving as a template here.

My problem with that is that you paid a premium for the fish so that you didn't have to get in a boat and go and net it yourself. On the other hand, these coins are in a wallet. They're already "caught". It's normal for me to be able to send my coins all over the place and dump as many as I like on the market or buy up as many as I like. By synthetically restricting supply to market all your doing is p*ssing off the wallet holder and giving them less functionality than they usually have.

Even with BitUSD the holder still has full freedom of movement with their coins. They can buy or dump as many as they like because that market has a natural commercial mechanism to gravitate to the peg that is consistent with commonly understood market forces.

With the "rigged supply" approach however, it's just software putting up roadblocks for the fish lorries. How can this possibly improve anything ?

I'm not drawing any final conclusions on this one way or the other and I am quite impressed with how Nubits is working, but there some quite big question marks over this approach for me all the same.

[barabbas]

In what pertains to BAY, this is absolutely ridiculous beyond any "explanation" for, to begin with, no one wants BAY nor no one is ever going to want BAY. No speculators, no merchants, no one, alright? Now, that eliminated any potential "market" right there, right? But, for the sake of argument, lets assume that you cannot buy what you want with FIAT, that you cannot buy it with BTC and that the "merchant" is so stupid that he insist in being paid with BAY, so, in order to purchase his shit, you have to purchase BAY first (I hope the immensity of absurdity in that scenario slowly sinks in). In that case, if you cannot live without those items you want to purchase, and there's absolutely no other supplier less strict you can go to, you absolutely have to buy BAY at whatever price the supply allows in order to get the goods. So count on BAY to be able to skip the lines and purchase the iPhone7 before the neighbor has it set to his home the following day by Apple.... (absurdity starting to sink in yet? oh wait, there's more!). Obviously, by a simple process of elimination, you will have providers and customers of "very special" goods/services somewhat interested in this type of transaction. You want to hire a killer? Simply use BAY; you want the latest, most grotesque child porno in your computer anonymously?, Sure, just use BAT! Ah, you have it in for cocaine, heroine maybe? Here, directly from the supplier, you got it... if you are willing to pay in BAY! Law Enforcement? Nah, they are stupid compared to the brilliance of Zimbeck's algo. They'll never catch up...

I could go on... but I have to leave the meaty part for the pay-per-view version. It is too ridiculous as it is already. Lets just leave it at this: Zimbeck pretend's to put a price on something no one wants or will ever. The rest is just decoration.

[SkyValeey]

It's fucking working: https://bter.com/trade/nbt_btc

DUHHH! But according to barrabas it cant be done even though it has been done. TWICE (NBT and BitUSD) using different theories to do it too. lol

This is beyond stupid, amazingly so. But I won't go into details of that exercise in absurdity until everyone has it clear for what it is the scam that BAY is and in which you are an accomplice.

And, again, the only relevant question, the only one: Who is selling  all they can at 1/3 and below the price of the ICO?

Morons in panic mode or dev.

There's no third option.

Dev must be a moron to sell that way (he would pump much higher to sell: )so I guess that noobs panic option is valid. 

[Mig-23]

ok fuder and non fuder,....let rest for while 

[altcoinUK]

Bob is certainly not my boss. Dont ever wanna hear his name.

As posted, indirectly he is. He's the one calling the shots.

Very easy to not being called liar: Don't tell lies. Or half truths.

I dont lie to people get that straight through your head. I'm getting tired of this shit. If you have issues with Bay then take it up with them.

Bob is not my boss indirectly either, hes a bad guy and i dont want to hear his name again.

David, all due respect and with the best intention I am saying this: it's time you start listening Barabbas and take seriously the shamble you navigated yourself into, because whatever your intention was you are the face of the Bitbay project. We understand your limited development  role in the operation, but still, most of the legit investment was made into Bitbay because of you.

Bob, if he is lucky will end up in jail, if he is less lucky (and this is the most likely scenario for him) he will end up fucked over and over in ass by Russian speaking gentlemen before his head being smashed with a not so sharp hammer. History has proven that one just can't do what he does over a long period of time without being punished. The word is already out about the Bitbay scam within the Russian speaking investor community (the organized mob) that invested via Bitbay on Bter, I already told you this, and you are (most likely unintentionally) in the middle of this mess.

However, you still have (probably your last chance) to save your reputation ... and basically yourself. I suggest you request the Bitbay team to reveal
a) the identities of all parties who received any payments from the 66% transfer of the ICO fund up to date
b) all BTC addresses that involved with the fund distribution (and then the community can verify by asking a small transfer from the addresses who owns what and who is really organizing this scam)

otherwise, if the Bitbay team refuse to comply with your request you just simply stop contributing to the process. Since we both know, and you know very well that the majority of the ICO was bought by your Bitbay team mates, the only ethical action from you could be  to clean up this mess and you should do this with your best of your abilities. I suggest to do this not only to save yourself but save the over scammed altcoin market from this train wreck that is called Bitbay.

[altcoinUK]

It's a bit like fish. If all the fish in the sea were brought to market at once, there'd be over supply and a price crash. So the fish are brought in a trickle from the sea to market which restricts the supply and buoys the price. So I presume this is the model that's serving as a template here.

My problem with that is that you paid a premium for the fish so that you didn't have to get in a boat and go and net it yourself. On the other hand, these coins are in a wallet. They're already "caught". It's normal for me to be able to send my coins all over the place and dump as many as I like on the market or buy up as many as I like. By synthetically restricting supply to market all your doing is p*ssing off the wallet holder and giving them less functionality than they usually have.

The sea fish supply is a great analogy. Of course it's hypothetical, but what if all sea fish were taken from the sea, but 99.999% of the supply is frozen (as David suggested will be done with his algorithm) and then the supply will be artificially controlled by allowing a small portion to enter to the fish market every day? Would that guaranty the same or even higher price as the current fishing and marketing methods? It would surely guaranty, so I think from strictly logic stand point the pegging could work - given that the demand for the product, the very important element of the process is there and one entity can control the supply.

The main issue with the pegging is that users and customers would simply not accept such complicated and artificially controlled financial product, when their coins are in fact controlled by and organization and the users aren't allowed to sell/buy freely the coins.

As you pointed out very correctly, the low volume of Nubits proves nothing except that once such artificial control is in place then people stop investing in the coin.

[altcoinUK]

Dev must be a moron to sell that way

Except if the organizers of the scam who bought into their own ICO - to create the hype and to attract legit investments - received the money from Bter - which they did as we established here already. So, if they have the BTC why is it irrational to sell it for 120 satoshies when there is a very good chance the price will be 50 sat very soon?

[+EV]

@altcoinuk, is there any way you can delete these image posts that Mig 23 keeps spamming? I understand you don't want this thread to be moderated, but he is doing absolutely nothing to contribute to the discussion of BAY. Many people have a lot of their bitcoin tied up in BAY, it is a very serious matter. All he is doing is burying relevant posts that actually matter.

[SkyValeey]

Dev must be a moron to sell that way

Except if the organizers of the scam who bought into their own ICO - to create the hype and to attract legit investments - received the money from Bter - which they did as we established here already. So, if they have the BTC why is it irrational to sell it for 120 satoshies when there is a very good chance the price will be 50 sat very soon?

I have one question: Are you sure that Dev is selling own coins?

Part of ICO was scam? Dev bought own coin just for fees? (So he has profi even at 1 sato huh) ? ? ?

I was wondering how it's possible to gain 2500-3000BTC from ICO nowadays when crypto is is depression like never before.....

you can cal it FUD but this is most important question with huge ICO....

[altcoinUK]

@altcoinuk, is there any way you can delete these image posts that Mig 23 keeps spamming? I understand you don't want this thread to be moderated, but he is doing absolutely nothing to contribute to the discussion of BAY. Many people have a lot of their bitcoin tied up in BAY, it is a very serious matter. All he is doing is burying relevant posts that actually matter.

I  have opened this thread, but I am unable to delete posts from here. Only the BCT moderator can delete the posts.
Personally I couldn't care less what the supersonic Mig-23 boy and other trolls post here, since I started to use Internet well before these high school boys born I am pretty much resistant to trolls, still you are absolutely right, the posts could be distracting for most users.

In my opinion, we should leave all posts in this unmoderated thread. This Mig-23 air plane boy pushes the Bitbay scam very-very hard in the official thread, he is there 24/7 arguing how great that scam is, then it's not enough for him that we are regularly deleted from the official thread, but he comes here and try to troll this thread. The fact, that one of the prominent members of the Bitbay scam, one of the most desperate hypers try to troll this unmoderated thread says a lot about Bitbay. That's how I see this, but if you don't want to experience with the trolling images you could click on the "Report to moderator" link in his posts and ask the moderator to delete it. Since this idiot Miggy boy brings nothing to the table except trolling I am sure the moderators will delete his posts if you really want they be deleted.

[altcoinUK]

Dev must be a moron to sell that way

Except if the organizers of the scam who bought into their own ICO - to create the hype and to attract legit investments - received the money from Bter - which they did as we established here already. So, if they have the BTC why is it irrational to sell it for 120 satoshies when there is a very good chance the price will be 50 sat very soon?

I have one question: Are you sure that Dev is selling own coins?

Part of ICO was scam? Dev bought own coin just for fees? (So he has profi even at 1 sato huh) ? ? ?

I was wondering how it's possible to gain 2500-3000BTC from ICO nowadays when crypto is is depression like never before.....

you can cal it FUD but this is most important question with huge ICO....

I am not sure if you are serious to ask such question, that you are in this environment and you are not aware of the most basic P&D method?

Yes, there is an incentive to buy into your own ICO. That method is about the snow ball effect: once the organizers of the scam create a volume, legit and naive investors think there is a serious demand for the coin and therefore start buying into it, the volume grows which attracts more and more investment. You put 1500 BTC into the ICO, that attracts another 1500 BTC from legit investors, and since the ICO is completed you will receive the full 3000 BTC, plus obviously you get the coins for the 1500 BTC. During the ICO process right hand put money into the left hand to create volume and attract legit investment. Once you have the BTC, any coins (in this case obviously BAY) can be sold at any price. Of course from the scammers viewpoint it is better to sell at 500 sat, but to minimize the risk in this collapsing altcoin market it is probably better to sell it at any price - and that's what is happening right now when the coin is dumped at 90 sat. There is simply no other logical explanation for the magnitude of dump.

As I said many times, David Zimbeck is not a bad guy by default configuration, and as the result of his good side even he, the lead developer can see and acknowledge that his Bitbay team mates pushed this ICO to 3000 BTC and the completion of the money party wasn't a free market, legit process.

I suggest accept the fact that Bitbay is a scam.

[barabbas]

And Bobsurplus, true to form, sending yet another barrage of minions and sock puppets to give advice to the poor (idiotic) believers who have drunk so much kool-aid he will applaud the "advice" from just-registered newbies... Amazing, simply amazing.

[MemoryShock]

It's fucking working: https://bter.com/trade/nbt_btc

That is quite impressive - it has converged on a dollar.  I wasn't aware of that.

But look at the volume - it's almost negligible once it converges on the peg. Clearly the valuation just ends up getting reflected in the liquidity instead of price. In other words, your holdings can theoretically be worth a million dollars but your lucky if you can realise 10 dollars of that in a year.

Would that not be the case ?

I think that the idea is that liquidity through the use of Bay on the Marketplace will create the ability for eventual mobility in and out of Bay.

So pretty much, the coding can potentially lock the price.  The people who are going to populate the marketplace will provide the liquidity to realize more than 'ten dollars a year'.  So I think you are right but everything hinges on the marketplace.  I've known that since during the IPO and posted as such.  No one really paid attention to it...

For those who are going to attack this post - I'm describing my impression of how it is supposed to work.  I really don't care about being asked or being forced to wonder about who those people are and whether or not the Alibaba connections are real or the NDA's are a convenient excuse.

Time will tell those stories...and if they're not worth telling than that will be it.  You're not going to get your answers by demanding them to people who don't know.  You're going to get them when it happens...

[MemoryShock]

What's worse. That model seems to make more sense on a coin that is thought to be used as a store of value. But if a coin wants to be used on a Decentralized Marketplace, won't that dynamic you witnessed pretty much kill the operation?

There are different reasons to peg a coins value.  One is a store of value to fight volatility.  Nubits is awesome for that.  Another is to create a coin that can be used to purchase items without wondering if the value of the money you used is more valuable tomorrow...or for a seller, wondering if they are accepting money that will be worthless a week from the purchase date.

Euphoria is a coin that just pegged one EUPH to 1000sats.  They don't care about the coin other than it is a vehicle for them to sell their product (with dubious legality dependent on geography).  The point is, the business model for Bay is showing signs of success...albeit on a much smaller scale than Bay.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=863799.0

Edit - When I say Business Model for Bay I am referencing my impression of the basic details regarding how hedging will benfit from a marketplace.  I haven't really dived into the logistics of Euphoria so the technical details may differ and there is certainly no link between the two projects afaik...

[altcoinUK]

And Bobsurplus, true to form, sending yet another barrage of minions and sock puppets to give advice to the poor (idiotic) believers who have drunk so much kool-aid he will applaud the "advice" from just-registered newbies... Amazing, simply amazing.

At least 10 newbie puppet nicks were activated to support the scam and create the hype just in the last three days ... and all of them states how cheap Bitbay is, the cheap price (being 60% below the ICO price) is the best thing happened to them ever and of course all of them buys, because these newbie accounts of course must make public that they buy. What happens there is really pathetic. Terms of hype making the Bitbay team and Bob & Co. certainly takes this operation to the next level.

[barabbas]

It's fucking working: https://bter.com/trade/nbt_btc

That is quite impressive - it has converged on a dollar.  I wasn't aware of that.

But look at the volume - it's almost negligible once it converges on the peg. Clearly the valuation just ends up getting reflected in the liquidity instead of price. In other words, your holdings can theoretically be worth a million dollars but your lucky if you can realise 10 dollars of that in a year.

Would that not be the case ?

I think that the idea is that liquidity through the use of Bay on the Marketplace will create the ability for eventual mobility in and out of Bay.

So pretty much, the coding can potentially lock the price.  The people who are going to populate the marketplace will provide the liquidity to realize more than 'ten dollars a year'.  So I think you are right but everything hinges on the marketplace.  I've known that since during the IPO and posted as such.  No one really paid attention to it...

For those who are going to attack this post - I'm describing my impression of how it is supposed to work.  I really don't care about being asked or being forced to wonder about who those people are and whether or not the Alibaba connections are real or the NDA's are a convenient excuse.

Time will tell those stories...and if they're not worth telling than that will be it.  You're not going to get your answers by demanding them to people who don't know.  You're going to get them when it happens...

Once again: There's no NDAs, there's no Alibaba connections of any kind -except the "chinese" guy maybe purchasing some batteries on the Alibaba market- whatsoever. None. It is all vapor. It is all a scam.