BitBay | Decentralized Marketplace | Unmoderated Thread

[Decentradical]

If you help get the price back to ICO prices - what does that accomplish?  If you get the markets working - what does that really change?  Even in that scenario, the best you are really doing is improving the already tainted proceeds for the guys that set this up in the first place!  There is no 'protecting the investors' in this scheme... and what does that do for those of us that already dumped long ago anyway?  If you were really interested in protecting anyone other than yourself - you would have called it out during the ICO - so that remediation could have occurred.

That depends on how much information the crooks have access to and how much funds they still hold. If they're kept in the dark about Bitbay then they're still in the same boat as all the other genuine investors. Sure enough with a good part of ill-gotten money but also with money they threw in themselves.

What's unacceptable however, is that these people still have channels to know more about Bitbay than the rest of us. If anything David could switch things around and give genuine investors private channels for communication and keep these folks out.

[digicidal]

Finally -and only after having littered many threads with amazingly stupid posts- digicidal seems to have accepted the reality of things here after being in denial for weeks.

Better late than never I guess!

Yeah, it's really too bad you're such a ridiculous troll.  If you hadn't been all over IE's jock for so long defending his numerous obvious shenanigans in scam after scam with your lunacy and mindless vitriol - even long after he admitted to it plainly - then I might have actually listened to you.

Of course, I've seen all your posts... so don't think you're somehow immune to getting vocally behind some really stupid and shady shit yourself.

You express yourself very poorly and I have difficulty understanding what your ramblings are about, not to mention the fact that you seem -if I understand it correctly- intent on somehow discrediting me for either being a bagholder than did not buy in at 500 satoshis or a burned trader that was let hanging... I don't know, very confusing. Look, punk, I have been in this for a long time (if the longest is 2 months, of course- and made a ton of money in it. I believed in it the moment I went in through the beautiful logo. Supported, traded it, pumped it and told all my friends about it. You, little punk, are greedily looking at making a few cents manipulating the market. I am looking at defending a coin that can not just survive but thrive all the way to 1=1.

Don't even pretend to be on the same level, ok?

Now it seems like those BC days when you were one of the largest cheerleaders are gone... maybe didn't get out enough at the top to buy back cheaper after the fallout?

Oh and remember SPA?   How about that KNC group buy?

[altcoinUK]

I delivered the smart contracting wallet. And I plan on continuing to deliver. This thread is a paid FUD thread. You are a Hero member, this should be apparent to you.

Now, you are disrespectful not only to me who opened this thread but to those members of the community who are quite rightly concerned about the level of scam and fraud in crypto. If you read the OP you will see this thread was opened in the very firsts days of the ICO, because - just like many community members - I understood that the Bitbay operation is a scam: there is no legitimate team behind the operation but P&D guys, there is no business plan and consequently the raised fund will not be used for development but will be used for personal purposes. It is clear by now from your own admissions and Bob's logs that not a legitimate team organized this project but a mob, there is no business plan whatsoever as the main guy is Steven Dai and he never had a legitimate business before and therefore the presented "business plan" that he will take on eBay is as much fraudulent as pretty much all elements of the Bitbay project are and the raised fund was shared between the organizers of the project instead of using it for development. You have acknowledged Bitbay was a scam, Bob has acknowledged it was a scam and even your biggest fanboys (like this decentralised boy) say in this thread that they have been victim of a fraud ... but you come here and have the stupidity, arrogance and self assured idiocy in believing in your own ill-driven truth to post that "this thread is a paid FUD thread".

Even Bob came through, he posted the logs and he posted a BTC address that his money was forwarded to. Despite many requests in this and other threads from the community you refuse to post the requested details (I am not going to repeat you know what was requested). You are the tough guy, you are posting all over the places that you are untouchable and that law enforcement won't act upon complaints - in the meantime you are still hiding the details and refusing to disclose the requested information. In the meantime, (despite you were equally active and deceiving in the scam as your partners were) you put all the blame on Bob & Gecko. You  started this project with Chinese mobsters, Steven and Lin, and then you were hiding the whole fraud for weeks while investors kept investing into the biggest scam of the year. However, you still not only refusing to comply with the request of the community and assist us with the data so we can work with law enforcement more effectively ... no, you don't do that (what even Bob did) ... but accusing us that we are paid FUDsters.

I said David a few days ago, I had enough from you. I will see you before you will be jailed and we will have a chat who is the paid FUDster.  

[digicidal]

If you help get the price back to ICO prices - what does that accomplish?  If you get the markets working - what does that really change?  Even in that scenario, the best you are really doing is improving the already tainted proceeds for the guys that set this up in the first place!  There is no 'protecting the investors' in this scheme... and what does that do for those of us that already dumped long ago anyway?  If you were really interested in protecting anyone other than yourself - you would have called it out during the ICO - so that remediation could have occurred.

That depends on how much information the crooks have access to and how much funds they still hold. If they're kept in the dark about Bitbay then they're still in the same boat as all the other genuine investors. Sure enough with a good part of ill-gotten money but also with money they threw in themselves.

What's unacceptable however, is that these people still have channels to know more about Bitbay than the rest of us. If anything David could switch things around and give genuine investors private channels for communication and keep these folks out.

The obvious answer as far as the funds are concerned is: all of them.  They didn't buy their own BAY with any of their own funds.  Essentially they merely reduced the actual size of the ICO... after using the investor BTC to pump it and create artificial demand.

On the math side - around 900BTC and between 200-400M BAY would be my guess as to what the BTER/David side has now.  I do believe that David has gotten very little of that... and I also believe that he's done 90% of what very little work has even been done thus far.  However, that doesn't change the fact that the guys he's currently doing business with are 100% up to their eyeballs... even if he's only up to his knees.  

[Decentradical]

If the group owns around 40million coins they didn't bother with dumping further then that's still ugly, but I could live with that margin, it's not too big a piece of the billion coins pie.

I delivered the smart contracting wallet. And I plan on continuing to deliver. This thread is a paid FUD thread. You are a Hero member, this should be apparent to you.

Now, you are disrespectful not only to me who opened this thread but to those members of the community who are quite rightly concerned about the level of scam and fraud in crypto. If you read the OP you will see this thread was opened in the very firsts days of the ICO, because - just like many community members - I understood that the Bitbay operation is a scam: there is no legitimate team behind the operation but P&D guys, there is no business plan and consequently the raised fund will not be used for development but will be used for personal purposes.

You're right. I completely misjudged at first and now I'm quite happy this thread exists. It's the only place that isn't in control of people with agendas.

Anybody with the intention of clearing this up, and that should include David, should be thankful for that. Think about it, if you didn't start this then we'd still be caught up in a shitstorm of accusations, shills and crappy pictures.

[digicidal]

If the group owns around 40million coins they didn't bother with dumping further then that's still ugly, but I could live with that margin, it's not too big a piece of the billion coins pie.

That's only 2 of them though... the coins held by Steven, Lin, and David are another ~220 million at least (without audit it's impossible to know exactly, but by their own statements it's at least 220M).  Still hasn't been conclusive proof that they haven't moved... but I'm not sure which is better, they dumped some as well and have less now - or they still have all of them and could 'divest' at any time.  

[Decentradical]

Now there's a problem. Probably the biggest obstacle to recovery as well.

[barabbas]

Finally -and only after having littered many threads with amazingly stupid posts- digicidal seems to have accepted the reality of things here after being in denial for weeks.

Better late than never I guess!

Yeah, it's really too bad you're such a ridiculous troll.  If you hadn't been all over IE's jock for so long defending his numerous obvious shenanigans in scam after scam with your lunacy and mindless vitriol - even long after he admitted to it plainly - then I might have actually listened to you.

Of course, I've seen all your posts... so don't think you're somehow immune to getting vocally behind some really stupid and shady shit yourself.

You express yourself very poorly and I have difficulty understanding what your ramblings are about, not to mention the fact that you seem -if I understand it correctly- intent on somehow discrediting me for either being a bagholder than did not buy in at 500 satoshis or a burned trader that was let hanging... I don't know, very confusing. Look, punk, I have been in this for a long time (if the longest is 2 months, of course- and made a ton of money in it. I believed in it the moment I went in through the beautiful logo. Supported, traded it, pumped it and told all my friends about it. You, little punk, are greedily looking at making a few cents manipulating the market. I am looking at defending a coin that can not just survive but thrive all the way to 1=1.

Don't even pretend to be on the same level, ok?

Now it seems like those BC days when you were one of the largest cheerleaders are gone... maybe didn't get out enough at the top to buy back cheaper after the fallout?

Oh and remember SPA?  How about that KNC group buy?

Yes pathetic idiot, I was quite a supporter of BC initially... until I discovered the scam that it was, denounced it and proclaim,ed that it was going to lose 90% of its value (it was then above 50k sat) and eventually die. I discovered and wrote amply about it, the manipulation that was taking place there with the full complicity of the dev team, everyone included, no exceptions and perpetrated by the group I named The Black Hand. It's all over these threads and, in some detail -and contributions by some of the ex-members of the dev team- on my WALL OF SHAME, also on these boards. That's what honest, normal people do when they are aware of scams. Like this one. Regardless of interests. Oh I know you cannot possibly understand even the concept, that's just the way you are wired, but it is like that. So simple.

As for IE, I put him on THE WALL OF SHAME for his peculiar handling of the so called Wall Street event, which I opposed completely from the get go. The guy does very idiotic things on account of his uncontrolable ego and his victim complex by which there are always excuses that impede him to assume responsibility for what he does -or allows others to do, on his name- wrong. But I have to call it like it is and, although a public manipulator -quite different from scummy Bob and Ryan or Prometheus or others like those-, he has no scammed anyone. I don't give a fuck about the guy, too many character flaws, but what's true is true. And I don't give a fuck either about you or anyone else putting any or all credibility on me, up to you and up yours, actually, in your particular instance. But the trail is there for the interested parties to follow and decide.

You acted your usual stupid self, for weeks, while you were being told -by me and others- why this was an obvious scam. It doesn't matter. In true IE fashion, you choose to blame how I said it for you to not believe it. More power to you and I hope you loss in direct proportion with the lesson you have been taught. More are coming, I am pretty sure.

Of course I remember SPA. You or others, hopefully saved some money by not investing on such display of incompetence, fully denounced by me from the get go, in both Spanish and English. It is posted here, anyone can check it. It is still a monument of incompetence that will never be worth shit. Like you.

As for the KNC miner, that idea went off the wall the moment I found out that company was associated with an individual accused of pedophilia in the US, but it was a good idea at the time... if only they delivered on their promises, which I don't believe they did BUT have done in the past and made a small fortune for those who did similar things to the proposed acquisition. Was anything wrong or shady in any way on that?

[altcoinUK]

I delivered the smart contracting wallet. And I plan on continuing to deliver. This thread is a paid FUD thread. You are a Hero member, this should be apparent to you.

Now, you are disrespectful not only to me who opened this thread but to those members of the community who are quite rightly concerned about the level of scam and fraud in crypto. If you read the OP you will see this thread was opened in the very firsts days of the ICO, because - just like many community members - I understood that the Bitbay operation is a scam: there is no legitimate team behind the operation but P&D guys, there is no business plan and consequently the raised fund will not be used for development but will be used for personal purposes.

You're right. I completely misjudged at first and now I'm quite happy this thread exists. It's the only place that isn't in control of people with agendas.

Thank you, and I suggest the following to all who try to get their heads around what's happened and what should be done:

a) Read the verify first post of this thread that was submitted on the 24th November, because the issues with the "project" are very much summarized in that post and remained the same. By now it is clear that this was indeed a scam, contradictory what was presented to investors there were never any business plans nor a legitimate professional team and the fund was not used for software development.

b) We, the community work with mob, fraudsters and more importantly with law enforcement to compensate investors by returning their funds. (Once the investors are compensated even the development of decentralized marketplace can be continued if someone really believe in that delusional use case).

For the full disclosure, I have zero BAY investment, and therefore for me no compensation will be required and my interest is to consolidate the scam driven altcoin market. Probably most of us are crypto enthusiasts here, I believe digital currency has an important role in modern society, but the current state of the altcoin market makes impossible of any progression and therefore we need to clean up the place from the crooks.

[barabbas]

I delivered the smart contracting wallet. And I plan on continuing to deliver. This thread is a paid FUD thread. You are a Hero member, this should be apparent to you.

Now, you are disrespectful not only to me who opened this thread but to those members of the community who are quite rightly concerned about the level of scam and fraud in crypto. If you read the OP you will see this thread was opened in the very firsts days of the ICO, because - just like many community members - I understood that the Bitbay operation is a scam: there is no legitimate team behind the operation but P&D guys, there is no business plan and consequently the raised fund will not be used for development but will be used for personal purposes. It is clear by now from your own admissions and Bob's logs that not a legitimate team organized this project but a mob, there is no business plan whatsoever as the main guy is Steven Dai and he never had a legitimate business before and therefore the presented "business plan" that he will take on eBay is as much fraudulent as pretty much all elements of the Bitbay project are and the raised fund was shared between the organizers of the project instead of using it for development. You have acknowledged Bitbay was a scam, Bob has acknowledged it was a scam and even your biggest fanboys (like this decentralised boy) say in this thread that they have been victim of a fraud ... but you come here and have the stupidity, arrogance and self assured idiocy in believing in your own ill-driven truth to post that "this thread is a paid FUD thread".

Even Bob came through, he posted the logs and he posted a BTC address that his money was forwarded to. Despite many requests in this and other threads from the community you refuse to post the requested details (I am not going to repeat you know what was requested). You are the tough guy, you are posting all over the places that you are untouchable and that law enforcement won't act upon complaints - in the meantime you are still hiding the details and refusing to disclose the requested information. In the meantime, (despite you were equally active and deceiving in the scam as your partners were) you put all the blame on Bob & Gecko. You  started this project with Chinese mobsters, Steven and Lin, and then you were hiding the whole fraud for weeks while investors kept investing into the biggest scam of the year. However, you still not only refusing to comply with the request of the community and assist us with the data so we can work with law enforcement more effectively ... no, you don't do that (what even Bob did) ... but accusing us that we are paid FUDsters.

I said David a few days ago, I had enough from you. I will see you before you will be jailed and we will have a chat who is the paid FUDster.  

I personally am more than willing to BECOME paid. So Bob, if you are reading -as I know you are, piece of shit-, send a couple hundred of those BTC you scammed here since, apparently I am doing such a good job for you that this idiot is even convinced I am you -among other things I am way more handsome than you will ever dream to be since faces reflect personalities and you truly look like the rat you are while I look more like Han Solo, or Batman-. I believe I have earned them 200...

[altcoinUK]

Now there's a problem. Probably the biggest obstacle to recovery as well.

There is no recovery the way you want to recover the process. As I said to you, I fully understand you want to salvage the operation, but once a crime was committed it is not possible to just move on. It just can't work that way.

First the fraudsters should return the money to the investors, and then you will have many options how to progress with the Bitbay project - even you can continue working with David (until he is jailed) if you think he is an honest individual -, but you can't ignore the fact that many naive investors have been the victim of this crime and first they must be compensated. Not only common sense and moral dictate this, but this is the interest of all of us who has anything to do with digital currencies.

[Decentradical]

You may be right. 40 million is okay but Bter's share is insurmountable.

[barabbas]

Now there's a problem. Probably the biggest obstacle to recovery as well.

There is no recovery the way you want to recover the process. As I said to you, I fully understand you want to salvage the operation, but once a crime was committed it is not possible to just move on. It just can't work that way.

First the fraudsters should return the money to the investors, and then you will have many options how to progress with the Bitbay project - even you can continue working with David (until he is jailed) if you think he is an honest individual -, but you can't ignore the fact that many naive investors have been the victim of this crime and first they must be compensated. Not only common sense and moral dictate this, but this is the interest of all of us who has anything to do with digital currencies.

Actually this is pretty much the last nail in a coffin that has been solidly built by crooks such as Bob and Ryan, Prometheus (that still is uncovered and in full operation), his face, Dan Metcalf, and a few others. Liquidity has dried up completely -they took it all- and the last available went to Ethereum and the SuperNet. There's no money to be stolen so -sorry Bob but that record-breaker you and Ryan are planning for April? Not gonna happen, ok?-, the gig is up for all these MF scammers. And Alts will slowly disappear while people will go back to Bitcoin, which will flourish in 2015 and beyond.

The nightmare is pretty much over. And it ain't coming back.

[altcoinUK]

Finally -and only after having littered many threads with amazingly stupid posts- digicidal seems to have accepted the reality of things here after being in denial for weeks.

Better late than never I guess!

Yeah, it's really too bad you're such a ridiculous troll.  If you hadn't been all over IE's jock for so long defending his numerous obvious shenanigans in scam after scam with your lunacy and mindless vitriol - even long after he admitted to it plainly - then I might have actually listened to you.

Of course, I've seen all your posts... so don't think you're somehow immune to getting vocally behind some really stupid and shady shit yourself.

You express yourself very poorly and I have difficulty understanding what your ramblings are about, not to mention the fact that you seem -if I understand it correctly- intent on somehow discrediting me for either being a bagholder than did not buy in at 500 satoshis or a burned trader that was let hanging... I don't know, very confusing. Look, punk, I have been in this for a long time (if the longest is 2 months, of course- and made a ton of money in it. I believed in it the moment I went in through the beautiful logo. Supported, traded it, pumped it and told all my friends about it. You, little punk, are greedily looking at making a few cents manipulating the market. I am looking at defending a coin that can not just survive but thrive all the way to 1=1.

Don't even pretend to be on the same level, ok?

Now it seems like those BC days when you were one of the largest cheerleaders are gone... maybe didn't get out enough at the top to buy back cheaper after the fallout?

Oh and remember SPA?  How about that KNC group buy?

You think and do what you want, I am not here to tell you what you should think, but I think in this case Barabbas should be the last person to be attacked. Actually Barabbas articulated first the main characteristics of this scam. For the full disclosure, I have quite a lot disagreements with him on logistical and technical topics, but he is usually correct on development, business and organizational issues - even if he is IE, Lady Gaga or Wayne Rooney (which is the most unlikely scenario ... but on that note I am off because Manchester United-Livepool is just starting)

[dzimbeck]

Barrabas this is what you get for invading my privacy. Prove it.

[dzimbeck]

Finally -and only after having littered many threads with amazingly stupid posts- digicidal seems to have accepted the reality of things here after being in denial for weeks.

Better late than never I guess!

Yeah, it's really too bad you're such a ridiculous troll.  If you hadn't been all over IE's jock for so long defending his numerous obvious shenanigans in scam after scam with your lunacy and mindless vitriol - even long after he admitted to it plainly - then I might have actually listened to you.

Of course, I've seen all your posts... so don't think you're somehow immune to getting vocally behind some really stupid and shady shit yourself.

You express yourself very poorly and I have difficulty understanding what your ramblings are about, not to mention the fact that you seem -if I understand it correctly- intent on somehow discrediting me for either being a bagholder than did not buy in at 500 satoshis or a burned trader that was let hanging... I don't know, very confusing. Look, punk, I have been in this for a long time (if the longest is 2 months, of course- and made a ton of money in it. I believed in it the moment I went in through the beautiful logo. Supported, traded it, pumped it and told all my friends about it. You, little punk, are greedily looking at making a few cents manipulating the market. I am looking at defending a coin that can not just survive but thrive all the way to 1=1.

Don't even pretend to be on the same level, ok?

Now it seems like those BC days when you were one of the largest cheerleaders are gone... maybe didn't get out enough at the top to buy back cheaper after the fallout?

Oh and remember SPA?   How about that KNC group buy?

You think and do what you want, I am not here to tell you what you should think, but I think in this case Barabbas should be the last person to be attacked. Actually Barabbas articulated first the main characteristics of this scam. For the full disclosure, I have quite a lot disagreements with him on logistical and technical topics, but he is normally correct on development, business and organizational issues - even if he is IE, Lady Gaga or Wayne Rooney (which it the most unlikely scenario ... but on that note I am off because Manchester United-Livepool is just starting)

I discussed my issues with the project openly its a known fact there are fake accounts on bitcointalk. Barrabas has invaded my privacy on many occasions. Thats what happens when you invade the privacy of others. He claims to be a truth teller. I want to know who he is.

[dzimbeck]

If the group owns around 40million coins they didn't bother with dumping further then that's still ugly, but I could live with that margin, it's not too big a piece of the billion coins pie.

I delivered the smart contracting wallet. And I plan on continuing to deliver. This thread is a paid FUD thread. You are a Hero member, this should be apparent to you.

Now, you are disrespectful not only to me who opened this thread but to those members of the community who are quite rightly concerned about the level of scam and fraud in crypto. If you read the OP you will see this thread was opened in the very firsts days of the ICO, because - just like many community members - I understood that the Bitbay operation is a scam: there is no legitimate team behind the operation but P&D guys, there is no business plan and consequently the raised fund will not be used for development but will be used for personal purposes.

You're right. I completely misjudged at first and now I'm quite happy this thread exists. It's the only place that isn't in control of people with agendas.

Anybody with the intention of clearing this up, and that should include David, should be thankful for that. Think about it, if you didn't start this then we'd still be caught up in a shitstorm of accusations, shills and crappy pictures.

I'm not concerned with who started it, im concerned with who posts. Its fine that it exists people should know what goes on here.

[altcoinUK]

I discussed my issues with the project openly its a known fact there are fake accounts on bitcointalk. Barrabas has invaded my privacy on many occasions. Thats what happens when you invade the privacy of others. He claims to be a truth teller. I want to know who he is.

First, answer my above post which was directed to you. It's not an issue here who Barabbas is, but who we proceed with you and the rest of the crooks.

[dzimbeck]

AltcoinUK, must I show you my entire chat history to clear my name? Then will you stop these people from doing this? I really was naive to what was going on until it started. Add me on skype i will show you something.

[Kronenberg]

"I delivered the smart contracting wallet. And I plan on continuing to deliver. This thread is a paid FUD thread. You are a Hero member, this should be apparent to you."

Lol, you delivered a broken wallet where the smart contracts did not even work. Took you a week to fix it. The wallet is back doored because you apparently don't have the skills to compile a wallet yourself.  And now these accusations.  AltcoinUK paid??   That's rich.   Barrabas paid??  even richer.

But none of this is apparent to you. You are so desperate to get everyone to forget you are at the center of this scam that i cannot open a thread without the latest post being you declaring some new person to be The Source of All Problems. Just today alone: you have blamed everything on - let's see, so far - Flubber, Bob Surplus. Barrabas, and now AltcoinUK.

And let's list the people you are not holding responsible: yourself, Steven, and Lin from BTer. You guys are are trying to get away with the biggest crypto scam in memory. And your strategy is the same day after day:

Admit nothing.

Protect Steve & Lin from Bter.

Try to get people to 'just move on'.

Demonize anyone who questions you.

And above all - hold on to your ill-gotten stacks of BTC and Bay.