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Author Topic: The BitcoinCard : Vienna, Austria Workshop  (Read 13094 times)
marcus_of_augustus
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June 16, 2012, 10:06:29 PM
 #141

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I'm not questioning the tech tbh, but more whether people would prefer this over mobile phones (a social problem) despite improved security. Phones can do way more than this device so I'm not sure.

I think fungibility will come into it ... money transfer with a phone will not be very private and difficult for the average user to make it so (particularly with the aggressive, predatory data-miners like google listening in). From what I can see using money on these cards can easily be as good as cash, electronic cash.

Also seems like a 'hardware wallet' concept like this can be secure enough to extend to a "savings card" and a "spending card" .... wouldn't want to leave more than a hundred btc on a phone.

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bitlizard
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June 16, 2012, 10:16:20 PM
 #142

when can I get my hands on on of these? how much are they gonna cost? (approx.)


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molecular
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June 16, 2012, 10:20:22 PM
 #143

when can I get my hands on on of these? how much are they gonna cost? (approx.)



i'm hoping for: next year, nada (as in: free (of cost) for the consumer)

this could be big... kudos to these guys for what they've achieved already (which seems very impressive) and even more kudos if they manage to pull it through!

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June 17, 2012, 01:38:31 AM
 #144

nice ,it looks like someone already used,can't wait to get one
52 gateways7,140 bitcoiners ("A")44,461 local reach ("B")
source http://bitcoincard.org/earth/

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June 17, 2012, 02:02:40 AM
 #145

nice ,it looks like someone already used,can't wait to get one
52 gateways7,140 bitcoiners ("A")44,461 local reach ("B")
source http://bitcoincard.org/earth/

I think that you misunderstood the intent of that particular webapp.  That isn't there to annouce who actually has a bitcoincard or gateway already, but who would be willing to do so and their estimate of how many potential bitcoincard users could pass that person's personal gateway each week.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 18, 2012, 07:09:17 PM
 #146

I'll be waiting with baited breath!

Sally, having swallowed cheese,
Directs down holes the scented breeze,
Enticing thus with baited breath
Nice mice to an untimely death.

I'm looking forward to the info!

+1,000,000

this sentence has fifteen words, seventy-four letters, four commas, one hyphen, and a period.
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anu
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June 19, 2012, 09:20:35 AM
 #147

Is not the Bitcoin card perfect for countries like Africa...

It may work nicely for other countries, such as Asia and Europe, too  Grin

Seriously, I had the same thought. If this card live up to it's promise, it should work in most parts of Africa with very little additional infrastructure.

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June 19, 2012, 12:04:48 PM
 #148

I'm not questioning the tech tbh, but more whether people would prefer this over mobile phones (a social problem) despite improved security. Phones can do way more than this device so I'm not sure.

My understanding is that the argument for this sort of device over a phone is that it has the potential to be independent of traditional communication infrastructure, which, assuming the P2P infrastructure it uses is secure, would eliminate at least that attack vector.  I love that idea, however, I think there are two related criticisms to be made.  (1) Network independence depends on widespread enough adoption and it's hard to believe that level of adoption is achievable even over the next few years.  (2) It seems that to overcome (1) they'll use hubs that are connected to the world's standard communication infrastructure, and, therefore, possibly invalidate the security benefit, at least initially.  Though, perhaps I'm misunderstanding how these hubs will work, and maybe they don't plug into the existing infrastructure but simply act as higher power signals for the P2P network.  Admittedly I haven't read all the documentation they've provided, so if I've got something wrong let me know.

hopefully we can run a virtual card on our phones / laptops to help the mesh grow
molecular
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June 19, 2012, 01:56:51 PM
 #149

I'm not questioning the tech tbh, but more whether people would prefer this over mobile phones (a social problem) despite improved security. Phones can do way more than this device so I'm not sure.

My understanding is that the argument for this sort of device over a phone is that it has the potential to be independent of traditional communication infrastructure, which, assuming the P2P infrastructure it uses is secure, would eliminate at least that attack vector.  I love that idea, however, I think there are two related criticisms to be made.  (1) Network independence depends on widespread enough adoption and it's hard to believe that level of adoption is achievable even over the next few years.  (2) It seems that to overcome (1) they'll use hubs that are connected to the world's standard communication infrastructure, and, therefore, possibly invalidate the security benefit, at least initially.  Though, perhaps I'm misunderstanding how these hubs will work, and maybe they don't plug into the existing infrastructure but simply act as higher power signals for the P2P network.  Admittedly I haven't read all the documentation they've provided, so if I've got something wrong let me know.

hopefully we can run a virtual card on our phones / laptops to help the mesh grow

+1

also: a phone has many more attack vectors than a card like that, even if it'd use traditional network infrastructure. You don't just install loads of apps on it or use it to surf porn (although that'd be kind of classy with the e-ink display *goes make monochrome-small-display-optimized porn site*)

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unclescrooge
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June 20, 2012, 05:35:57 PM
 #150

I read the blog report of bitinstant guys: http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/6/19/our-discovery-in-vienna-the-bitcoin-card.html

This is truly something big. If it takes off (and considering the future of the economies worldwide I think it will, then it can literally change our societies.

I mean bitcoin could be use everywhere with a smart card and an usb dongle as payment processor! This will change everything!

molecular
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June 20, 2012, 10:45:59 PM
 #151

Long gone the days when one could impress people with an American Express Gold Card.

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June 20, 2012, 11:58:54 PM
 #152

I mean bitcoin could be use everywhere with a smart card and an usb dongle as payment processor!
exactly and customers doesn't need a dongle  Grin like PayPal,Square,iZettle,Swiffpay,Intuit Payanywhere,Gopayment,Salesvu etc...

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June 21, 2012, 04:41:08 AM
 #153

I don't know how easy to use this will be. I hope you don't have to type out long addresses on that weird keyboard.

I remember when the Sprint card came out. I think I connected to every BBS in the country at 2400 baud. Even at the discount rate, I still racked up huge phone bills. Just the novelty of this card will cause people to spend money if it is convenient.

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June 21, 2012, 06:50:08 AM
 #154

I don't know how easy to use this will be. I hope you don't have to type out long addresses on that weird keyboard.


I think we can trust them to come up with a reasonable solution for this, because that'd be a no go. Curious what it will be in the absence of a scanner / camera and NFC.

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Matthew N. Wright
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June 21, 2012, 06:56:19 AM
 #155

I don't know how easy to use this will be. I hope you don't have to type out long addresses on that weird keyboard.


I think we can trust them to come up with a reasonable solution for this, because that'd be a no go. Curious what it will be in the absence of a scanner / camera and NFC.

Bingo.

molecular
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June 21, 2012, 07:44:29 AM
 #156

I don't know how easy to use this will be. I hope you don't have to type out long addresses on that weird keyboard.


I think we can trust them to come up with a reasonable solution for this, because that'd be a no go. Curious what it will be in the absence of a scanner / camera and NFC.

Bingo.

quote from bitinstants blog-post (http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/6/19/our-discovery-in-vienna-the-bitcoin-card.html)

Quote from: bitinstant
In order to pay someone with the card, you press the “Pay” button and a small list of nearby devices appears. Each device has a unique alias/name. You scroll down to the device you wish to pay, select it, enter the amount to pay, and submit. Thus, you do not need to enter any ugly BTC addresses in daily use.

If you wish to pay out to a normal BTC address, you will be able to enter it on the card (but obviously this is tedious). It is likely that the solution will be a linked ewallet-type account paired to your device. If you wish to send to a normal BTC address, you’d use the ewallet via the web on a computer or mobile phone.


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June 21, 2012, 08:01:01 AM
 #157


Quote from: bitinstant
In order to pay someone with the card, you press the “Pay” button and a small list of nearby devices appears. Each device has a unique alias/name. You scroll down to the device you wish to pay, select it, enter the amount to pay, and submit. Thus, you do not need to enter any ugly BTC addresses in daily use.

If you wish to pay out to a normal BTC address, you will be able to enter it on the card (but obviously this is tedious). It is likely that the solution will be a linked ewallet-type account paired to your device. If you wish to send to a normal BTC address, you’d use the ewallet via the web on a computer or mobile phone.

Ooops, missed that. Going back to school to learn how to read properly ...

Thanks for the slap.

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June 21, 2012, 08:22:34 AM
 #158

In the future will everything be open source exclusive for bitcoin network?
Can the USB dongle work on all cross-platform ?

If they're asking for NDAs, I don't believe it's going to be open source. But it would be interesting, for them and for their customers, if they make at least the protocol open, so that different implementations can talk with it.

I'm pretty sure it will be closed-down pretty tightly. They've invested heavily and want to make some money.

This doesn't need to be a showstopper, but I'd like to hear some specifics on their "openness policies".

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June 21, 2012, 08:45:53 AM
 #159

I'm pretty sure it will be closed-down pretty tightly. They've invested heavily and want to make some money.

This is a piece of infrastructure. Infrastructure must create opportunities to be successful. If it has the potential to do so, but is locked down so can't, the Bitcoincard will go the way of so many other cool technologies. Like BeOS.

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June 21, 2012, 09:03:29 AM
 #160

The bitcoincard needs to have a method to easily send bitcoin to someone who is not part of the bitcoincard-system, otherwise it will be hard for it to become successful IMHO.

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