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Author Topic: The BitcoinCard : Vienna, Austria Workshop  (Read 13098 times)
LightRider
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June 21, 2012, 09:27:59 AM
 #161

I think one of the distinctions between this and the ellet is that the bitcoincard promotes a bitcoin community, while the ellet tries to engage and maintain the status quo. Obviously the ellet will likely be more successful as a device if it delivers on its promise, but bitcoincard would more than likely engender a more philosophically like minded market/ecosystem. In any case, I still doubt that meatspace is the right place for bitcoin right now, but it is always exciting to see these developments.

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Matthew N. Wright
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June 21, 2012, 09:39:40 AM
 #162

I think one of the distinctions between this and the ellet is that the bitcoincard promotes a bitcoin community, while the ellet tries to engage and maintain the status quo. Obviously the ellet will likely be more successful as a device if it delivers on its promise, but bitcoincard would more than likely engender a more philosophically like minded market/ecosystem. In any case, I still doubt that meatspace is the right place for bitcoin right now, but it is always exciting to see these developments.

I agree wholeheartedly in everything you said, although I think you have a very immature idea of what "statis quo" even means. By your definition I wonder if you think Bitcoin Magazine "tries to maintain the status quo" by making it more available to people in Barnes & Noble, which doesn't accept bitcoin.  Roll Eyes

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June 21, 2012, 09:48:31 AM
 #163

I think one of the distinctions between this and the ellet is that the bitcoincard promotes a bitcoin community, while the ellet tries to engage and maintain the status quo. Obviously the ellet will likely be more successful as a device if it delivers on its promise, but bitcoincard would more than likely engender a more philosophically like minded market/ecosystem. In any case, I still doubt that meatspace is the right place for bitcoin right now, but it is always exciting to see these developments.

I agree wholeheartedly in everything you said, although I think you have a very immature idea of what "statis quo" even means. By your definition I wonder if you think Bitcoin Magazine "tries to maintain the status quo" by making it more available to people in Barnes & Noble, which doesn't accept bitcoin.  Roll Eyes

Obviously, using old media, via traditional printing and distribution to large establishment chain stores is in a way maintaining the status quo. (Actually, ironically, I also find it quite anachronistic!) As an idealist, it is not something I agree with entirely, but realistically and practically I understand it and cannot really criticize it. The world will not change in an instant, and I do appreciate any change that in the long run helps to make society better for everyone. I am glad that you and the rest of the bitcoin community are engaging in this shift, and any criticism I levy is not against any one person or product, but the underlying assumptions of the way the world works right now. We are all victims of culture, and it is ultimately inescapable. Hopefully more people begin to understand that, and push the boundaries of what they think is possible.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
Matthew N. Wright
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June 21, 2012, 10:49:53 AM
 #164

I think one of the distinctions between this and the ellet is that the bitcoincard promotes a bitcoin community, while the ellet tries to engage and maintain the status quo. Obviously the ellet will likely be more successful as a device if it delivers on its promise, but bitcoincard would more than likely engender a more philosophically like minded market/ecosystem. In any case, I still doubt that meatspace is the right place for bitcoin right now, but it is always exciting to see these developments.

I agree wholeheartedly in everything you said, although I think you have a very immature idea of what "statis quo" even means. By your definition I wonder if you think Bitcoin Magazine "tries to maintain the status quo" by making it more available to people in Barnes & Noble, which doesn't accept bitcoin.  Roll Eyes

Obviously, using old media, via traditional printing and distribution to large establishment chain stores is in a way maintaining the status quo. (Actually, ironically, I also find it quite anachronistic!) As an idealist, it is not something I agree with entirely, but realistically and practically I understand it and cannot really criticize it. The world will not change in an instant, and I do appreciate any change that in the long run helps to make society better for everyone. I am glad that you and the rest of the bitcoin community are engaging in this shift, and any criticism I levy is not against any one person or product, but the underlying assumptions of the way the world works right now. We are all victims of culture, and it is ultimately inescapable. Hopefully more people begin to understand that, and push the boundaries of what they think is possible.

Well spoken!

molecular
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June 21, 2012, 08:11:03 PM
 #165

I'm pretty sure it will be closed-down pretty tightly. They've invested heavily and want to make some money.

This is a piece of infrastructure. Infrastructure must create opportunities to be successful. If it has the potential to do so, but is locked down so can't, the Bitcoincard will go the way of so many other cool technologies. Like BeOS.

Then why is OpenBeOS (aka haiku) not taking off?

Maybe it's time to put my BeBox on bitmit?

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anu
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June 22, 2012, 07:58:37 AM
 #166

Then why is OpenBeOS (aka haiku) not taking off?

Maybe it's time to put my BeBox on bitmit?

I didn't even know it exists until a minute ago. Thanks for pointing me. But it doesn't look ready yet. Not being ready seems a pretty good reason for not taking off, even if its open, don't you think?

Lastly, i didn't say it must be all OpenSource. It must only allow independent vendors to extend it and build upon. Be violated that. The only vendors who AFAIK got away with closing their stuff extremely tight are IBM with their mainframes and Apple with their iPhone. But these are huge companies with almost infinite cash reserves. And even IBM was almost killed by that attitude during the PC revolution.

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June 23, 2012, 02:45:16 AM
 #167

I'm pretty sure it will be closed-down pretty tightly. They've invested heavily and want to make some money.

This is a piece of infrastructure. Infrastructure must create opportunities to be successful. If it has the potential to do so, but is locked down so can't, the Bitcoincard will go the way of so many other cool technologies. Like BeOS.
Oh boy, I haven't heard BeOS mentioned for quite some time. I still remember back in the nineties when they wisited my university. They were ahead of their time and I think too small to pofilerate. IMO bitcoin is still small but right on time.

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June 23, 2012, 05:37:56 AM
 #168

I'm pretty sure it will be closed-down pretty tightly. They've invested heavily and want to make some money.

This is a piece of infrastructure. Infrastructure must create opportunities to be successful. If it has the potential to do so, but is locked down so can't, the Bitcoincard will go the way of so many other cool technologies. Like BeOS.
Oh boy, I haven't heard BeOS mentioned for quite some time. I still remember back in the nineties when they wisited my university. They were ahead of their time and I think too small to pofilerate. IMO bitcoin is still small but right on time.

I remember trying it back in the 90's, after I'd already tried cutting my own Gentoo/Gnu linux on my own machine running BlackboxWM.  Sorry, but I was watching Stargate SG-1 torrents on a 486-66 with that, and BeOS just didn't seem to stack up.  Nothing ever did.  To this day there are people I meet who doubt that I've compiled my own Gentoo, much less played AVI files on a 66 mhz machine with 64 meg of ram.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
molecular
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June 23, 2012, 07:47:56 AM
 #169

I'm pretty sure it will be closed-down pretty tightly. They've invested heavily and want to make some money.

This is a piece of infrastructure. Infrastructure must create opportunities to be successful. If it has the potential to do so, but is locked down so can't, the Bitcoincard will go the way of so many other cool technologies. Like BeOS.
Oh boy, I haven't heard BeOS mentioned for quite some time. I still remember back in the nineties when they wisited my university. They were ahead of their time and I think too small to pofilerate. IMO bitcoin is still small but right on time.

I remember trying it back in the 90's, after I'd already tried cutting my own Gentoo/Gnu linux on my own machine running BlackboxWM.  Sorry, but I was watching Stargate SG-1 torrents on a 486-66 with that, and BeOS just didn't seem to stack up.  Nothing ever did.  To this day there are people I meet who doubt that I've compiled my own Gentoo, much less played AVI files on a 66 mhz machine with 64 meg of ram.

BeOS had a problem initially after being ported to x86 (it was powerpc architecture initially until Apple disallowed clone makers) with it's MediaKit: it had to byte-swap the raw image data (twice?) because of the endianess on x86 being different than the MeditKits native pixel-format which was derived from the powerpc platform (big endian vs. little endian)

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anu
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June 23, 2012, 08:47:42 AM
 #170

Oh boy, I haven't heard BeOS mentioned for quite some time. I still remember back in the nineties when they wisited my university. They were ahead of their time and I think too small to pofilerate. IMO bitcoin is still small but right on time.

The real difference is that Bitcoin is creating opportunity. Investing in a Bitcoin business has a good feeling because you are the master of your house, not Gavin.

Be Inc, otoh, tried to keep maximum control, as is Apple's culture. You had a feeling like Gassee got you at your balls - not a good feeling. This is really what broke their neck. This is also what broke the neck of the Blackberry. And this will eventually be the death of iOS. Just try to release a Bitcoin client on iOS and you know what I mean. There are reasons Android is with 59% way ahead of iOS (23%), even though iOS is undoubtedly better. And the reason is not only price.

For the Bitcoincard it's the same issue. It may be cool, but if as a developer you feel like under the command and at the mercy of Alex^2, this is bound to fail.

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June 23, 2012, 11:16:31 AM
 #171

Oh boy, I haven't heard BeOS mentioned for quite some time. I still remember back in the nineties when they wisited my university. They were ahead of their time and I think too small to pofilerate. IMO bitcoin is still small but right on time.

The real difference is that Bitcoin is creating opportunity. Investing in a Bitcoin business has a good feeling because you are the master of your house, not Gavin.

Be Inc, otoh, tried to keep maximum control, as is Apple's culture. You had a feeling like Gassee got you at your balls - not a good feeling. This is really what broke their neck. This is also what broke the neck of the Blackberry. And this will eventually be the death of iOS. Just try to release a Bitcoin client on iOS and you know what I mean. There are reasons Android is with 59% way ahead of iOS (23%), even though iOS is undoubtedly better. And the reason is not only price.

For the Bitcoincard it's the same issue. It may be cool, but if as a developer you feel like under the command and at the mercy of Alex^2, this is bound to fail.
Apple will flame out as fast as it rose. It is only as big as it is not because of its user base, but because it appeals to a generation that enjoys their vanity. All it will take is the next shiny thing to take their attention away. Meanwhile real innovation is being worked on in basements of folks like Alex^2.

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June 23, 2012, 11:17:28 AM
 #172

Oh boy, I haven't heard BeOS mentioned for quite some time. I still remember back in the nineties when they wisited my university. They were ahead of their time and I think too small to pofilerate. IMO bitcoin is still small but right on time.

The real difference is that Bitcoin is creating opportunity. Investing in a Bitcoin business has a good feeling because you are the master of your house, not Gavin.

Be Inc, otoh, tried to keep maximum control, as is Apple's culture. You had a feeling like Gassee got you at your balls - not a good feeling. This is really what broke their neck. This is also what broke the neck of the Blackberry. And this will eventually be the death of iOS. Just try to release a Bitcoin client on iOS and you know what I mean. There are reasons Android is with 59% way ahead of iOS (23%), even though iOS is undoubtedly better. And the reason is not only price.

For the Bitcoincard it's the same issue. It may be cool, but if as a developer you feel like under the command and at the mercy of Alex^2, this is bound to fail.
Apple will flame out as fast as it rose. It is only as big as it is not because of its user base, but because it appeals to a generation that enjoys their vanity. All it will take is the next shiny thing to take their attention away. Meanwhile real innovation is being worked on in basements of folks like Alex^2.
+1

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June 23, 2012, 03:59:54 PM
 #173

I'm pretty sure it will be closed-down pretty tightly. They've invested heavily and want to make some money.

This is a piece of infrastructure. Infrastructure must create opportunities to be successful. If it has the potential to do so, but is locked down so can't, the Bitcoincard will go the way of so many other cool technologies. Like BeOS.
Oh boy, I haven't heard BeOS mentioned for quite some time. I still remember back in the nineties when they wisited my university. They were ahead of their time and I think too small to pofilerate. IMO bitcoin is still small but right on time.
I remember trying it back in the 90's, after I'd already tried cutting my own Gentoo/Gnu linux on my own machine running BlackboxWM.  Sorry, but I was watching Stargate SG-1 torrents on a 486-66 with that, and BeOS just didn't seem to stack up.  Nothing ever did.  To this day there are people I meet who doubt that I've compiled my own Gentoo, much less played AVI files on a 66 mhz machine with 64 meg of ram.

They probably don't believe you because the Bittorent protocol was invented in 2001, so watching SG-1 torrents on a 486 machine in the 1990's would require time-travel.

more or less retired.
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June 23, 2012, 04:45:48 PM
 #174

I'm pretty sure it will be closed-down pretty tightly. They've invested heavily and want to make some money.

This is a piece of infrastructure. Infrastructure must create opportunities to be successful. If it has the potential to do so, but is locked down so can't, the Bitcoincard will go the way of so many other cool technologies. Like BeOS.
Oh boy, I haven't heard BeOS mentioned for quite some time. I still remember back in the nineties when they wisited my university. They were ahead of their time and I think too small to pofilerate. IMO bitcoin is still small but right on time.
I remember trying it back in the 90's, after I'd already tried cutting my own Gentoo/Gnu linux on my own machine running BlackboxWM.  Sorry, but I was watching Stargate SG-1 torrents on a 486-66 with that, and BeOS just didn't seem to stack up.  Nothing ever did.  To this day there are people I meet who doubt that I've compiled my own Gentoo, much less played AVI files on a 66 mhz machine with 64 meg of ram.

They probably don't believe you because the Bittorent protocol was invented in 2001, so watching SG-1 torrents on a 486 machine in the 1990's would require time-travel.


Ah, no.  The bittorrent protocol was invented in 2001, and the SG-1 series ran until 2007.  The 486-66 was old at the time, but it was all that I had until about 2003, when my sister gave me her P166, which was a huge improvement in both sync & framerate.  And I was oversimplifying also.  Running video files on the 66 required me to drop out of X-windows completely and run the video directly on the framebuffer svga driver, which didn't allow for pausing, fast-forwarding or rewinding.  It was either play from the beginning or kill it.  Even restarting a killed process didn't work right.  So when I upgraded to the 166 w/128 megs (IIRC) I was then able to run the videos in X on BlackboxWM.  So, technically, I was disingenuous; as I couldn't really run a video in BlackboxWM until the 166.  I did try BeOS in the late 90's, but it wasn't watching videos that was the killer, it was simply that I had old hardware and linux worked while BeOS (and any modern version of Windows) simply didn't in any functional manner.

These days I'm not so poor, so I'm doing this on a late model iMac because I can afford the extra costs in avoiding MicroSoft products.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 23, 2012, 05:06:33 PM
 #175

These days I'm not so poor, so I'm doing this on a late model iMac because I can afford the extra costs in avoiding MicroSoft products.

You must have misunderstood something about the reasons to avoid MS products, else why would you jump from the frying pan into the fire?

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June 23, 2012, 06:05:37 PM
 #176

These days I'm not so poor, so I'm doing this on a late model iMac because I can afford the extra costs in avoiding MicroSoft products.

You must have misunderstood something about the reasons to avoid MS products, else why would you jump from the frying pan into the fire?

You are making assumptions about my reasons for disliking MicroSoft products, and I'm still not sure what they are.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 23, 2012, 06:23:28 PM
 #177

You are making assumptions about my reasons for disliking MicroSoft products, and I'm still not sure what they are.

If even you are not sure what your reasons are, then may I suggest you figure them out?  Grin

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July 21, 2012, 05:28:53 AM
 #178

Sorry to dig this up...

How would double spending be prevented on a mesh network like this, if a little mesh cluster didn't have access to a dongle node?
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July 21, 2012, 05:36:49 AM
 #179

Sorry to dig this up...

How would double spending be prevented on a mesh network like this, if a little mesh cluster didn't have access to a dongle node?

If you could set up a small computer to communicate using the bitcoincard's own network protocol, there would actually be nothing to prevent you from trying to double spend to a disconnected bitcoincard user.  However, it's unlikely (not impossible) that a regular vendor would be willing to accept bitcoincard transactions sans a live Internet.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 27, 2012, 01:32:54 PM
 #180

Can anyone introduce or send BitcoinCard to Kim Dotcom?
from @KimDotcom Is Meshnet the solution? http://vimeo.com/45819231
http://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/228480841800642560

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