$XAI Sapience AIFX - Decentralized AI | 11% PoS | PlumeDB,IBTP on Testnet

[thefix]

lets do this 3k per node :p

I think between 8k and 16k is the way to go for nodes

[1713932535]

1713932535

[1713932535]

1713932535

[jasemoney]

well for sapience, you need stakers and node operators and coins for the database operations and coins for liquidity on the exchange... 8k is more than 1% say you get 50 nodes... thats 2/3 the current supply. the point of masternodes is to have enough that one person cant just own a few and start de-anonymizing the transactions.

*edit not sure if theres any studies on a reasonable number of nodes to represent a network well. a number thats low enough to incentivize participants to remain node runners, but high enough to make sure the nodes wont be a weak link in the system in any way.

[Kartaba]

lets do this 3k per node :p

I think between 8k and 16k is the way to go for nodes

I wanted to say 10k-15k but yeah... something like that

[trunks]

lets do this 3k per node :p

i think 3k per node is good too

will xai have hipos static pos rewards? that would be really cool. can you imagine?  

[thefix]

well for sapience, you need stakers and node operators and coins for the database operations and coins for liquidity on the exchange... 8k is more than 1% say you get 50 nodes... thats 2/3 the current supply. the point of masternodes is to have enough that one person cant just own a few and start de-anonymizing the transactions.

*edit not sure if theres any studies on a reasonable number of nodes to represent a network well. a number thats low enough to incentivize participants to remain node runners, but high enough to make sure the nodes wont be a weak link in the system in any way.

I wouldn't go below four, its really cheap so most everyone has a chance to get in now

[Honest Tim]

well for sapience, you need stakers and node operators and coins for the database operations and coins for liquidity on the exchange... 8k is more than 1% say you get 50 nodes... thats 2/3 the current supply. the point of masternodes is to have enough that one person cant just own a few and start de-anonymizing the transactions.

*edit not sure if theres any studies on a reasonable number of nodes to represent a network well. a number thats low enough to incentivize participants to remain node runners, but high enough to make sure the nodes wont be a weak link in the system in any way.

I wouldn't go below four, its really cheap so most everyone has a chance to get in now

What would be the incentives for running one?

[trader19]

lets do this 3k per node :p

i think 3k per node is good too

will xai have hipos static pos rewards? that would be really cool. can you imagine?  

agree 3k per xainode seems reasonable, 2k is even better   would give incentive for small holders to run xainodes. can't wait for joe to deliver this tech, we know that joe is elite and everything he does he does it better.  

[CedricQuotient]

lets do this 3k per node :p

i think 3k per node is good too

will xai have hipos static pos rewards? that would be really cool. can you imagine?  

agree 3k per xainode seems reasonable, 2k is even better   would give incentive for small holders to run xainodes. can't wait for joe to deliver this tech, we know that joe is elite and everything he does he does it better.  

Aww..i dunno about that... cross-compilation for Windows is definitely a weak spot for me

[CedricQuotient]

well for sapience, you need stakers and node operators and coins for the database operations and coins for liquidity on the exchange... 8k is more than 1% say you get 50 nodes... thats 2/3 the current supply. the point of masternodes is to have enough that one person cant just own a few and start de-anonymizing the transactions.

*edit not sure if theres any studies on a reasonable number of nodes to represent a network well. a number thats low enough to incentivize participants to remain node runners, but high enough to make sure the nodes wont be a weak link in the system in any way.

I wouldn't go below four, its really cheap so most everyone has a chance to get in now

What would be the incentives for running one?

In our case, we actually have a future use case for masternodes - neuromining pool operations.  There is a lot of development effort between here and there, but it is an actual useful purpose for them.

I think we have to be careful to strike the right balance when it comes to the collateral amount.  I've been watching some of the latest batch of coins lately, some are lower and some are higher.  It seems that if you make it too high it seems to limit the interest and participation.  I need to put together a spreadsheet and run some numbers and see what makes sense.

[trader19]

well for sapience, you need stakers and node operators and coins for the database operations and coins for liquidity on the exchange... 8k is more than 1% say you get 50 nodes... thats 2/3 the current supply. the point of masternodes is to have enough that one person cant just own a few and start de-anonymizing the transactions.

*edit not sure if theres any studies on a reasonable number of nodes to represent a network well. a number thats low enough to incentivize participants to remain node runners, but high enough to make sure the nodes wont be a weak link in the system in any way.

I wouldn't go below four, its really cheap so most everyone has a chance to get in now

What would be the incentives for running one?

In our case, we actually have a future use case for masternodes - neuromining pool operations.  There is a lot of development effort between here and there, but it is an actual useful purpose for them.

I think we have to be careful to strike the right balance when it comes to the collateral amount.  I've been watching some of the latest batch of coins lately, some are lower and some are higher.  It seems that if you make it too high it seems to limit the interest and participation.  I need to put together a spreadsheet and run some numbers and see what makes sense.

great, can't wait to get my own xainode 

[thefix]

lets do this 3k per node :p

i think 3k per node is good too

will xai have hipos static pos rewards? that would be really cool. can you imagine?  

agree 3k per xainode seems reasonable, 2k is even better   would give incentive for small holders to run xainodes. can't wait for joe to deliver this tech, we know that joe is elite and everything he does he does it better.  

1k is probably realistic then

[Kartaba]

well for sapience, you need stakers and node operators and coins for the database operations and coins for liquidity on the exchange... 8k is more than 1% say you get 50 nodes... thats 2/3 the current supply. the point of masternodes is to have enough that one person cant just own a few and start de-anonymizing the transactions.

*edit not sure if theres any studies on a reasonable number of nodes to represent a network well. a number thats low enough to incentivize participants to remain node runners, but high enough to make sure the nodes wont be a weak link in the system in any way.

I wouldn't go below four, its really cheap so most everyone has a chance to get in now

What would be the incentives for running one?

In our case, we actually have a future use case for masternodes - neuromining pool operations.  There is a lot of development effort between here and there, but it is an actual useful purpose for them.

I think we have to be careful to strike the right balance when it comes to the collateral amount.  I've been watching some of the latest batch of coins lately, some are lower and some are higher.  It seems that if you make it too high it seems to limit the interest and participation.  I need to put together a spreadsheet and run some numbers and see what makes sense.

Yes i now see that 10k is far too much indeed. Perhaps 0.75%--1% (around 4,5k-6,5k) of total tokens is more realistic? But then again Darkcoin was 1000drk and has around 5million coins atm which is 0.02% ish. I havent checked these latest batch of coins, but i have this feeling that its less than 0.5% of total amount. What was the amount of Crave again for example?.. I couldnt find it in the OP but its late here (5:00 AM) so my brain is full of farts by now hehe. Ill try again tomorrow. Goodnight all

[jasemoney]

crave is 500 with 560k coins so 0.1% per node. fyi there are over 230 crave masternodes for over 115k or 20% of the network locked into these. chainz.cryptoid shows over 50% of the crave network staking. appears to be 30% staking and 20% masternoding.


neutron ntrn plans to do 25k per node and has 1.4 mil coins about 1.7% of network per node there.

8bit has them live with 112 coins per node and has 103k coins so 0.1 %

sling is 7331 per node and 737k coins so 1%


sapience at .1% would be 650 or something

cedric, make sure to implement crave's ability to set a masternode specific port so people can run more than 1 per computer.

[Kartaba]

Hi all ;P. 
I am trying to understand what masternodes are, how it works etc. Because I have a background in finance I would like to say: “ please bear with me”, because I might say something which is technically false… please correct me if this is the case.
I tried to google for examples and the one i've been looking at is this link:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/darkcoin-update-masternode-requirements-masternode-payments.225/

First of all this thread outlines the fact that “you need to be fairly familiar with network administration and securing host”. But even tough I’m non-technical, I assume there will be some kind of tutorial which helps people setting up this at your home computer?

Then the thread outlines the fact that darkcoin’s point is to make it very expensive to aquire them:
Why is this good? Or why is this bad?

The thread continues with a calculation:
1x Masternode = 576 blocks * 10% of the reward = 1036DRK/day …………… =1036
8x Masternodes = (576/8) blocks * 10% of the reward = 129DRK/day………...= 1032
16x Masternodes = (576/32) blocks * 10% of the reward = 32DRK/day……….= 512/1024
128x Masternodes = (576/128) blocks * 10% of the reward = 8.1DRK/day……= 1036.8

I THINK THE FORMULA ON THIS THREAD OF 16x masternodes should be 576/16…. Instead of 576/32.. which gives total of 1024 drk instead of 512drk……. +

I've learned 3 types of approaches in my studies: I live in Holland so excuse me for my english...
1st: Progressive: Increasing, growing etc.
2nd Degressive: Decreasing, declining etc.
3rd Proportional: In proportion

So if I understand it correctly,… the more masternodes someone has…. The less reward he/she might expect. So Darkcoin/Dash is using a Degressive form.
Why is this form of system good? Or why is this bad?

Then I found a calculator for CRAVE:
http://jj12880.azurewebsites.net/CraveCalc.aspx

I made a small table in a spreadsheet….and here are the outcomes :

Number of owned masternodes      Estimated Crave per day
                   x1                                 2.610989011
                   x8                                 20.88791209
                   x16                                 41.77582418
                   x128                         334.2065934

So if I understand correctly, Crave works the other way around. Here there is an incentive to have more nodes because as you can see… the more nodes you have…. The more estimated crave you will receive.
Because the amount is multiplied with the number of masternodes this type is in my opinion a form of proportional system. 1+1=2 … it would be progressive if for example 1+1=3... or 4.. or 5 etc
Why is this form of system good? Or why is this bad?

I hope anyone could help me understand more about the how's, why's.. i would appreciate more info about this subjects so if you have some links... plz share

[jasemoney]

Hello Kartaba.
the math you show between crave and drk are backwards.

1x Masternode = 576 blocks * 10% of the reward = 1036DRK/day …………… = ~1036
8x Masternodes = (576/8) blocks * 10% of the reward = 129DRK/day………...= ~1036
16x Masternodes = (576/32) blocks * 10% of the reward = 32DRK/day……….= ~1036
128x Masternodes = (576/128) blocks * 10% of the reward = 8.1DRK/day……= ~1036

that the darkcoin math above is showing is how much the network plans on spending on masternodes daily (1036DRK) and how the rewards change based on how many masternodes enter the system. if there was one masternode it would receive the entire days masternode payouts (1440/2.5 min blocks = 576 blocks per day * 10 % of reward at this hashrate = ~1036 coins per day. as more nodes are introduced this 1036 needs to be split up amongst the participants. the math shows that with 128 masternode participants, each be getting their share on average 8.1 dark per day. (8.2*128=~1036)

the crave masternode calculator is not factoring changes in the overall system like that. the calculator isn't smart enough, if you put in 10 or 100 the reward increases linearly (27 or 270) this is the calculator not the network. crave is averaging 960 blocks per day and its masternode reward is .66666666 per block so the masternodes split ~640 coins per day. according to the darkcoin math above 1 crave masternode would make 640 coins per day while 1 of 128 masternodes would recieve 5 crave per day.

these are all based on averaging and variance, I have one crave masternode which has received 38 selected payments, in the same time period another has received 8. I hope in the future the runt will preform better. the masternode system over time should reward all participants equally.

the thing you should be examining is why pay the masternodes 10% of darkcoins reward per block, or 66% of cravecoins coinbase reward per block. with darkcoin the masternodes preform the anon mixing, along with the network confirmations to allow instantx transactions possible. with POS coins instantx may not be reasonable yet due to forking. that leaves anon and any yet to be developed use cases.  

also darkcoin only allows 1 masternode per host as far as i know where as cravecoin and clones allow you to set the masternode port to whatever and run as many per system as you like. the reason darkcoin suggests highly that you are familiar with network admin and security is because most people host theirs on a VPS. also 1000 darkcoins is not a trivial ammount of $ and when your a masternode your ip is known the the network (your ip is known to the network no matter what wallet-qt you run) but in the case of knowing a masternodes ip you know there 1000 dark sitting behind that computer. Since that hard reccomendation to use VPS use security etc etc, they have implemented a way to run a "cold masternode" where your coins can be safely in an address you control on your home computer while being part of a masternode on some other server. though im not exacty sure how that works...  I guess maybe the security recommendation applies when the node is worth 3000$ where as a crave node is worth $135. since all the new masternode coins dont have to high a marketcap yet im sure the security recommendation will come back around as they encounter growing pains.

as usual always ask for best practices and follow throught best you can. if your not comfortable securing your coins in masternodes, stick to staking or <trading?>.

[trader19]

Hello Kartaba.
the math you show between crave and drk are backwards.

1x Masternode = 576 blocks * 10% of the reward = 1036DRK/day …………… = ~1036
8x Masternodes = (576/8) blocks * 10% of the reward = 129DRK/day………...= ~1036
16x Masternodes = (576/32) blocks * 10% of the reward = 32DRK/day……….= ~1036
128x Masternodes = (576/128) blocks * 10% of the reward = 8.1DRK/day……= ~1036

that the darkcoin math above is showing is how much the network plans on spending on masternodes daily (1036DRK) and how the rewards change based on how many masternodes enter the system. if there was one masternode it would receive the entire days masternode payouts (1440/2.5 min blocks = 576 blocks per day * 10 % of reward at this hashrate = ~1036 coins per day. as more nodes are introduced this 1036 needs to be split up amongst the participants. the math shows that with 128 masternode participants, each be getting their share on average 8.1 dark per day. (8.2*128=~1036)

the crave masternode calculator is not factoring changes in the overall system like that. the calculator isn't smart enough, if you put in 10 or 100 the reward increases linearly (27 or 270) this is the calculator not the network. crave is averaging 960 blocks per day and its masternode reward is .66666666 per block so the masternodes split ~640 coins per day. according to the darkcoin math above 1 crave masternode would make 640 coins per day while 1 of 128 masternodes would recieve 5 crave per day.

these are all based on averaging and variance, I have one crave masternode which has received 38 selected payments, in the same time period another has received 8. I hope in the future the runt will preform better. the masternode system over time should reward all participants equally.

the thing you should be examining is why pay the masternodes 10% of darkcoins reward per block, or 66% of cravecoins coinbase reward per block. with darkcoin the masternodes preform the anon mixing, along with the network confirmations to allow instantx transactions possible. with POS coins instantx may not be reasonable yet due to forking. that leaves anon and any yet to be developed use cases.  

also darkcoin only allows 1 masternode per host as far as i know where as cravecoin and clones allow you to set the masternode port to whatever and run as many per system as you like. the reason darkcoin suggests highly that you are familiar with network admin and security is because most people host theirs on a VPS. also 1000 darkcoins is not a trivial ammount of $ and when your a masternode your ip is known the the network (your ip is known to the network no matter what wallet-qt you run) but in the case of knowing a masternodes ip you know there 1000 dark sitting behind that computer. Since that hard reccomendation to use VPS use security etc etc, they have implemented a way to run a "cold masternode" where your coins can be safely in an address you control on your home computer while being part of a masternode on some other server. though im not exacty sure how that works...  I guess maybe the security recommendation applies when the node is worth 3000$ where as a crave node is worth $135. since all the new masternode coins dont have to high a marketcap yet im sure the security recommendation will come back around as they encounter growing pains.

as usual always ask for best practices and follow throught best you can. if your not comfortable securing your coins in masternodes, stick to staking or <trading?>.

thanks jasemoney for nice overview, mr. google said that even dash/darkcoin masternodes payment is based on luck factor so its not guaranteed you will always receive the same (8.1 dark per day) reward running them. pretty similar to crave reward system. check 5 posts down
http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/26tvv8/how_much_profit_can_i_potentially_make_setting_up/

[Kartaba]

Thanks for all this info i will try to understand all of it. Im very exited for the future. Thanks again

[jasemoney]

thanks jasemoney for nice overview, mr. google said that even dash/darkcoin masternodes payment is based on luck factor so its not guaranteed you will always receive the same (8.1 dark per day) reward running them. pretty similar to crave reward system. check 5 posts down
http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/26tvv8/how_much_profit_can_i_potentially_make_setting_up/

yeah i have one crave node thats made 25 coins in the time another has made 8. so there is definitely a variance :p

[thefix]

Thanks for all this info i will try to understand all of it. Im very exited for the future. Thanks again

Once Joe(the developer) crunches the numbers and gets back to us, we should have a much clearer idea of how it will work.

[jasemoney]

Thanks for all this info i will try to understand all of it. Im very exited for the future. Thanks again

Once Joe(the developer) crunches the numbers and gets back to us, we should have a much clearer idea of how it will work.

more than one way to skin a cat they say. I'm interested to see what Joe determines as well, though whatever he decides on won't discredit other projects operating critera for their masternodes or modified masternodes.