Losing faith

[zeurpiet]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

[Coincoin256]

BTC is falling and any reason that I would give you for that, would be nothing but speculation.

[gog1]

with second round of silkroad coin coming, prices will be depressed until that clears up

big whale that wants to get in on BTC will try to do it through the auction instead of buying from exchange

[var53]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Where did you buy in at 270? The lowest it went to on bitstamp was about 275.

[Cassie.Jill]

 

I just do not know why some people can still make big money when prices fall.

[cbeast]

Silly old man missed the boat so he tries to sell a book. Sad. He should find Jesus.

[chopstick]

Price will be at 10K+ in the future, just be patient. Keep buying coins.

http://worldbitcoinnetwork.com/BitcoinPriceModel-Alpha.html

[Foxpup]

I just do not know why some people can still make big money when prices fall.

Short selling, of course. But what we really need is better options markets so that we can still make big money when prices stay the same. I hate stability.

[cbeast]

Silly old man missed the boat so he tries to sell a book. Sad. He should find Jesus.

Have you tried unmuting your audio?

I did that until my ears started bleeding from laughter.

[cbeast]

Silly old man missed the boat so he tries to sell a book. Sad. He should find Jesus.

Have you tried unmuting your audio?

I did that until my ears started bleeding from laughter.

Like Tom Cruise does when people tell him Xeno doesnt exist?

More like listening to people that are afraid to enter actual debate and refuse to answer serious questions. Alas, such fools relegate themselves to commercially sponsored talk shows and refuse callers.

[1echo]

more merchants = more price dump

[cbeast]

more merchants = more price dump

The problem with that is assuming consumers buy less bitcoins than they spend, which is impossible.

[r0ger_l]

more merchants = more price dump

The problem with that is assuming consumers buy less bitcoins than they spend, which is impossible.

Unless the majority of coins spent are mined and not actually purchased.

[cbeast]

more merchants = more price dump

The problem with that is assuming consumers buy less bitcoins than they spend, which is impossible.

Unless the majority of coins spent are mined and not actually purchased.

Yeah, but miners only buy hookers and blow.

[r0ger_l]

more merchants = more price dump

The problem with that is assuming consumers buy less bitcoins than they spend, which is impossible.

Unless the majority of coins spent are mined and not actually purchased.

Yeah, but miners only buy hookers and blow.

and weed, don't forget the weed

[abs350]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

[traderCJ]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

[jonald_fyookball]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

I dont think so.  You are required to pay capital gains tax at the end of the year.  Who said you need to report all conversions? 

[Newbie1022]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

I dont think so.  You are required to pay capital gains tax at the end of the year.  Who said you need to report all conversions? 

This. Also, you are assuming that you'll have any BTC-related income to report. I think, for most people this year, the IRS provisions are a Godsend because they can now claim losses.

[cbeast]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

I dont think so.  You are required to pay capital gains tax at the end of the year.  Who said you need to report all conversions? 

This. Also, you are assuming that you'll have any BTC-related income to report. I think, for most people this year, the IRS provisions are a Godsend because they can now claim losses.

How do you claim losses if you don't sell your bitcoins for less than you paid for them?

[KeyJockey]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

Hey Zeurpiet... I'm in the same boat as you, as I believe probably a lot of people around here are.

Anyone who heard about bitcoin (or, like me, who'd heard about it earlier but only finally began to take it seriously) only AFTER the last big run-up a year ago, is likely in the same situation.

It kinda sucks, yeah, but y'know just looking at the past price charts I figured something out for myself that's helped me a lot in coping with it.

Seems to me, most assets or investment vehicles that we are familiar with (stocks, etc) follow a typical long term pattern of slow, incremental increases with occasional periodic big-drop crashes.

It's like most investments go:
a little up,
a little up,
a little up,
a little up... then
BIG BOOM DOWN (but not below starting point), then again...
a little up,
a little up,
a little up... etc.

Bitcoin, in contrast, seems to me like it's following the exact opposite behavior.

Bitcoin goes thru these incredible periodic huge but infrequent 10X-SPIKES UP... then it calms down and goes thru normal price-falling periods, like:
a little down,
a little down,
a little down,
a little down... and then,
BAM!!  Huge 10X Spike UP!!!  Then again...
a little down,
a little down,
a little down... etc.

It's difficult to cope with this, unless & until you can SEE (and believe in) this patten.

Because what this all boils down to is, unfortunately, MOST OF THE TIME the price of bitcoin on a day to day, even month to month basis, WILL USUALLY BE GOING DOWN.

As the price is usually falling, ya just gotta get into a mindset of just buying buying buying and HOLD ON ("hodl" LOL)

Just accumulate as much BTC as you can... at any prices, so that when that next big spike finally comes, you'll benefit from one of those 10-X, ten-baggers, and then you won't care about the short term BTC price day to day anymore, LOL

Of course, that "next 10x spike" may never come... that's the risk we take. 

But I think there's a pretty good chance it will show up, one way or another, sooner or later.

I myself have never yet lived thru one of these 10X events but here's hoping it'll still happen. 

Hodl, Hodl, Hodl... 

[Biodom]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

I dont think so.  You are required to pay capital gains tax at the end of the year.  Who said you need to report all conversions?  

This. Also, you are assuming that you'll have any BTC-related income to report. I think, for most people this year, the IRS provisions are a Godsend because they can now claim losses.

How do you claim losses if you don't sell your bitcoins for less than you paid for them?

If you want to take losses in bitcoin this year, there is one interesting strategy that I have seen described on stock boards.
1. You buy whatever the number of bitcoins you want to keep on or before November 30 (Nov 29, 28).
2. You sell previously bought bitcoins (those that you bought before those that you buy in #1) on December 31.
3. You claim loss in BTC trade against your other capital gains for the year until ALL such gains are gone+$3000
4. You should not buy any new bitcoin until after Jan 31 so you don't have wash sales.

Result: you will have newly bought bitcoins, but you reduce your tax on other capital gains if you had them (plus $3000)

[cbeast]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

I dont think so.  You are required to pay capital gains tax at the end of the year.  Who said you need to report all conversions?  

This. Also, you are assuming that you'll have any BTC-related income to report. I think, for most people this year, the IRS provisions are a Godsend because they can now claim losses.

How do you claim losses if you don't sell your bitcoins for less than you paid for them?

If you want to take losses in bitcoin this year, there is one interesting strategy that I have seen described on stock boards.
1. You buy whatever the number of bitcoins you want to keep on or before November 30 (Nov 29, 28).
2. You sell previously bought bitcoins (those that you bought before those that you buy in #1) on December 31.
3. You claim loss in BTC trade against your other capital gains for the year until ALL such gains are gone+$3000
4. You should not buy any new bitcoin until after Jan 31 so you don't have wash sales.

Result: you will have newly bought bitcoins, but you reduce your tax on other capital gains if you had them (plus $3000)

Lose money just so you can claim to lose money. If everyone did that it would be musical chairs and you would be left without a chair.

[Biodom]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

I dont think so.  You are required to pay capital gains tax at the end of the year.  Who said you need to report all conversions?  

This. Also, you are assuming that you'll have any BTC-related income to report. I think, for most people this year, the IRS provisions are a Godsend because they can now claim losses.

How do you claim losses if you don't sell your bitcoins for less than you paid for them?

If you want to take losses in bitcoin this year, there is one interesting strategy that I have seen described on stock boards.
1. You buy whatever the number of bitcoins you want to keep on or before November 30 (Nov 29, 28).
2. You sell previously bought bitcoins (those that you bought before those that you buy in #1) on December 31.
3. You claim loss in BTC trade against your other capital gains for the year until ALL such gains are gone+$3000
4. You should not buy any new bitcoin until after Jan 31 so you don't have wash sales.

Result: you will have newly bought bitcoins, but you reduce your tax on other capital gains if you had them (plus $3000)

Lose money just so you can claim to lose money. If everyone did that it would be musical chairs and you would be left without a chair.

No, the point is to get rid of extra capital gains in other assets WHILE maintaining the same number of bitcoin as you want.
Basically, you are replacing bitcoins bought during the year with bitcoins that you are buying in Nov28-Nov 30 timeframe.

[traderCJ]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

I dont think so.  You are required to pay capital gains tax at the end of the year.  Who said you need to report all conversions? 

In the eyes of the IRS, the exchange of BTC for goods or services is a taxable event.  Surprised more wasn't made of this when the IRS announced this early 2014.

[traderCJ]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

I dont think so.  You are required to pay capital gains tax at the end of the year.  Who said you need to report all conversions?  

This. Also, you are assuming that you'll have any BTC-related income to report. I think, for most people this year, the IRS provisions are a Godsend because they can now claim losses.

Depends.  If you're buying Bitcoin as an investment, this makes sense.  If you planned on spending your Bitcoin on a regular basis (using it as a currency, which is the whole point), just be prepared to report all liquidations to the IRS (even coffee).  Will they find out about small transactions?  Probably not.  Larger ones may attract their attention.  Be careful who you brag to, because the IRS is now giving cash rewards to people who report "tax cheats".  Also, if you play around on a non-US exchange like Bitstamp, you would be foolish to assume the IRS doesn't already have a list of US traders who have gone through the account verification process.  If there's one government institution you do not want to mess with, it is the IRS.

Sidenote, whether or not FATCA applies to foreign Bitcoin exchanges is still in limbo.  This will probably be resolved in the first round of Bitcoin IRS audits coming down the pipe.

[fran2k]

Price will be at 10K+ in the future, just be patient. Keep buying coins.

http://worldbitcoinnetwork.com/BitcoinPriceModel-Alpha.html

Wow, very nice site! Thanks for the link.

[cbeast]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

I dont think so.  You are required to pay capital gains tax at the end of the year.  Who said you need to report all conversions?  

This. Also, you are assuming that you'll have any BTC-related income to report. I think, for most people this year, the IRS provisions are a Godsend because they can now claim losses.

How do you claim losses if you don't sell your bitcoins for less than you paid for them?

If you want to take losses in bitcoin this year, there is one interesting strategy that I have seen described on stock boards.
1. You buy whatever the number of bitcoins you want to keep on or before November 30 (Nov 29, 28).
2. You sell previously bought bitcoins (those that you bought before those that you buy in #1) on December 31.
3. You claim loss in BTC trade against your other capital gains for the year until ALL such gains are gone+$3000
4. You should not buy any new bitcoin until after Jan 31 so you don't have wash sales.

Result: you will have newly bought bitcoins, but you reduce your tax on other capital gains if you had them (plus $3000)

Lose money just so you can claim to lose money. If everyone did that it would be musical chairs and you would be left without a chair.

No, the point is to get rid of extra capital gains in other assets WHILE maintaining the same number of bitcoin as you want.
Basically, you are replacing bitcoins bought during the year with bitcoins that you are buying in Nov28-Nov 30 timeframe.

I mean volatility. My point is that if everyone sells, then the price drops and you get more loss. If everyone buys, you get less coins. Both ways you lose and the tax credit is trivial.

[chessnut]

Markets do not and cannot move in a straight line. This correction has been natural and healthy. If bitcoin was really a ponzi scheme, the price would be much lower right now, $50 and less, but the current price is very promising.

[picolo]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

2015 should be fun for people that accumulate a few bitcoins in 2014 because most big news will benefit Bitcoin

Silly old man missed the boat so he tries to sell a book. Sad. He should find Jesus.

He thinks he missed the boat but he didn't since there is the potential of a 10,000profit

[cbeast]

Silly old man missed the boat so he tries to sell a book. Sad. He should find Jesus.

He thinks he missed the boat but he didn't since there is the potential of a 10,000profit

I stand corrected. I actually meant to say he thinks he missed the boat.

[wachtwoord]

When you lose faith, remind yourself how the protocol is designed and be impressed with the elegance once more.

[KIRAZ]

Absolutely agree with wachtwoord, new users in bitcoin world looks at it with a complete different perspective but it's much more and bigger than it
and do not lose hope we still are the early adopters there's still much more to come to it.

[dinofelis]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

What are the bitcoin fundamentals right now ?  How much stuff is bought with bitcoin, and what is the bitcoin velocity ?
What is the fraction of, say, the gold market bitcoin is claiming right now ?

Honestly, if you look at all those fundamentals, bitcoin right now, without any speculative rise in the future, is largely over-priced.  I don't think that there's $ 20 billion worth of stuff is sold every year in bitcoin ($ 5 billion market cap, and velocity of 4, like USD), even on black markets, with  bitcoin.  I don't think that bitcoin took over 0.1% of the gold market.

These are the fundamentals that could justify a market cap of $ 5 billion.  

So most people are speculating on higher fundamentals in the future, which is why the price is so high as it is today.

That there have been speculative bubbles in the past, when there were not so many traders and exchanges, especially the bubble to $1200,- doesn't mean at all that the fundamentals in the near future justify such a price and certainly not the fundamentals today.  In fact, the bitcoin market doesn't even seem very liquid (in the sense that there are a lot of bitcoins with very low velocity, which haven't participated in the market often), which means that the current price actually only applies dynamically to a smaller fraction of the actual coins than those really existing.

So I am not surprised at all that the price is at the current level - I even think it is mainly speculative aiming for future fundamentals which are much higher than the actual fundamentals today (gold market, and merchand adoption).

I think that with all the trading going on now, there's no chance anymore to see these speculative bubbles as in the past.  I don't think people are going to fall again for a surge to more than $1000,- in a few weeks.  I don't think such prices are sustainable for the moment, and so everybody is going to expect a falling after such a potential surge - which means that the number of buyers at those high prices are not going to be able to sustain the price there, everybody expecting a lower price a few months later.  A market usually "sobers up" after a few burst bubbles, and I think that last year's bubble and the decline afterwards has sobered up more than one trader.

So the only movements I'm actually expecting are slow market movements following the speculation on the long-term fundamentals which are market share in the gold market, and merchand adoption, which can be higher or lower than current market price, and will subsequently have the market price evolve towards it, upward, or downward.

[NotLambchop]

When you lose faith, remind yourself how the protocol is designed and be impressed with the elegance once more.

Or simply have another sip.  Freshen your cup?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Unfortunately, anybody who bought in above 7 or 8 hundred will forever be victim to one of histories biggest accidental trolls. Nothing will ever change that

[KeyJockey]

One thing nobody's mentioned in this thread yet -- a possible huge wild card in all of it -- regarding bitcoin's future value and the possibility of at least one more 10X spike happening someday soon, is the entry of Wall Street and large institutional investor money into this space.

So far, because bitcoin is not any kind of "regulated" asset or investment vehicle, the big-money players have been prohibited (by LAW) from getting into it, in any significant capacity.  (Note this doesn't mean they haven't been fooling around, maybe even "meddling" with it, in some "unofficial" or background, off-books, covert sort of way... which I totally believe is possible or even VERY likely).

The fact that Silicon Valley VC money has been pouring into the space, makes the entire "sales pitch" for these guys more and more palatable to their clients, vis-a-vis the idea that future USE of bitcoin & blockchain tech will be expanding into more & much EASIER TO USE products and services.

This, IMHO, is a fairly slow incremental process that's been going on all during the last year.

Ever since the Gox crash we've had almost ALL only GOOD news, all year!  Yet the BTC price has gone down, even while every other metric of measuring bitcoin (transactions, hash rate, wallets, difficulty, etc) has continued exponentially UP.

Bottom Line: a "story" is being developed here, for these big-money boyz, which could give these guys the wherewithal that they'll need to *finally* get into bitcoin in a big way.

IF/WHEN that happens... billions of $$$ pouring into the space, there is no other possible price reaction due to the FIXED SUPPLY of existing bitcoins than UP UP UP.

If that doesn't happen?  Well, then, yeah maybe we could remain *stuck* around $500 per BTC forever, of course, or we could even possibly see the entire "experiment" ultimately fail, and BTC price may then go to sub-$100 again.

But, ask yourself this: does anyone you know who's started to use bitcoin ever gone back to NOT using it, at all?

There are very few users already, of course: out of 100 people you ask on the street if they use bitcoin you'd be lucky to probably find ONE actual user.  But if you put 100 bitcoin users into a room and ask how many of 'em are NOT using it any more at all... I think the number there would be zero or very, very low.

This, alone, means adoption & use is still increasing... despite the price dropping.

And a growing market is NEVER something that Wall Street or Silicon Valley *EVER* leaves alone for very long.

[ParabellumLite]

One thing nobody's mentioned in this thread yet -- a possible huge wild card in all of it -- regarding bitcoin's future value and the possibility of at least one more 10X spike happening someday soon, is the entry of Wall Street and large institutional investor money into this space.

So far, because bitcoin is not any kind of "regulated" asset or investment vehicle, the big-money players have been prohibited (by LAW) from getting into it, in any significant capacity.  (Note this doesn't mean they haven't been fooling around, maybe even "meddling" with it, in some "unofficial" or background, off-books, covert sort of way... which I totally believe is possible or even VERY likely).

The fact that Silicon Valley VC money has been pouring into the space, makes the entire "sales pitch" for these guys more and more palatable to their clients, vis-a-vis the idea that future USE of bitcoin & blockchain tech will be expanding into more & much EASIER TO USE products and services.

This, IMHO, is a fairly slow incremental process that's been going on all during the last year.

Ever since the Gox crash we've had almost ALL only GOOD news, all year!  Yet the BTC price has gone down, even while every other metric of measuring bitcoin (transactions, hash rate, wallets, difficulty, etc) has continued exponentially UP.

Bottom Line: a "story" is being developed here, for these big-money boyz, which could give these guys the wherewithal that they'll need to *finally* get into bitcoin in a big way.

IF/WHEN that happens... billions of $$$ pouring into the space, there is no other possible price reaction due to the FIXED SUPPLY of existing bitcoins than UP UP UP.

If that doesn't happen?  Well, then, yeah maybe we could remain *stuck* around $500 per BTC forever, of course, or we could even possibly see the entire "experiment" ultimately fail, and BTC price may then go to sub-$100 again.

But, ask yourself this: does anyone you know who's started to use bitcoin ever gone back to NOT using it, at all?

There are very few users already, of course: out of 100 people you ask on the street if they use bitcoin you'd be lucky to probably find ONE actual user.  But if you put 100 bitcoin users into a room and ask how many of 'em are NOT using it any more at all... I think the number there would be zero or very, very low.

This, alone, means adoption & use is still increasing... despite the price dropping.

And a growing market is NEVER something that Wall Street or Silicon Valley *EVER* leaves alone for very long.

Tell me, how much did you buy (recently) and at what price? I have carefully read all you tried to say here, but to come up with the idea that 2014 so far is a positive year after the Mt. Gox downfall really is delusional. It is not, nor is the argument that 'the big players' are just waiting to step in or moreover, that this is inevitable. Bitcoin can simply die due to altcoin competition in the next 12 months (as in, losing it's n1 place and slowly grinding down to 1) and then there's of course the issue if governments will actually allow Bitcoin to exist in the long run.

In each case wake up, and smell the coffee. The moon is not happening.

[jaredboice]

One thing nobody's mentioned in this thread yet -- a possible huge wild card in all of it -- regarding bitcoin's future value and the possibility of at least one more 10X spike happening someday soon, is the entry of Wall Street and large institutional investor money into this space.

So far, because bitcoin is not any kind of "regulated" asset or investment vehicle, the big-money players have been prohibited (by LAW) from getting into it, in any significant capacity.  (Note this doesn't mean they haven't been fooling around, maybe even "meddling" with it, in some "unofficial" or background, off-books, covert sort of way... which I totally believe is possible or even VERY likely).

The fact that Silicon Valley VC money has been pouring into the space, makes the entire "sales pitch" for these guys more and more palatable to their clients, vis-a-vis the idea that future USE of bitcoin & blockchain tech will be expanding into more & much EASIER TO USE products and services.

This, IMHO, is a fairly slow incremental process that's been going on all during the last year.

Ever since the Gox crash we've had almost ALL only GOOD news, all year!  Yet the BTC price has gone down, even while every other metric of measuring bitcoin (transactions, hash rate, wallets, difficulty, etc) has continued exponentially UP.

Bottom Line: a "story" is being developed here, for these big-money boyz, which could give these guys the wherewithal that they'll need to *finally* get into bitcoin in a big way.

IF/WHEN that happens... billions of $$$ pouring into the space, there is no other possible price reaction due to the FIXED SUPPLY of existing bitcoins than UP UP UP.

If that doesn't happen?  Well, then, yeah maybe we could remain *stuck* around $500 per BTC forever, of course, or we could even possibly see the entire "experiment" ultimately fail, and BTC price may then go to sub-$100 again.

But, ask yourself this: does anyone you know who's started to use bitcoin ever gone back to NOT using it, at all?

There are very few users already, of course: out of 100 people you ask on the street if they use bitcoin you'd be lucky to probably find ONE actual user.  But if you put 100 bitcoin users into a room and ask how many of 'em are NOT using it any more at all... I think the number there would be zero or very, very low.

This, alone, means adoption & use is still increasing... despite the price dropping.

And a growing market is NEVER something that Wall Street or Silicon Valley *EVER* leaves alone for very long.

Tell me, how much did you buy (recently) and at what price? I have carefully read all you tried to say here, but to come up with the idea that 2014 so far is a positive year after the Mt. Gox downfall really is delusional. It is not, nor is the argument that 'the big players' are just waiting to step in or moreover, that this is inevitable. Bitcoin can simply die due to altcoin competition in the next 12 months (as in, losing it's n1 place and slowly grinding down to 1) and then there's of course the issue if governments will actually allow Bitcoin to exist in the long run.

In each case wake up, and smell the coffee. The moon is not happening.

Choosing to ignore continual increases in adoption and venture capital reveals a hidden agenda.  Thanks for your entirely one-sided post but thankfully most people on these boards are too smart to be affected by comments like that

[NotLambchop]

^UR definitely overinvested, bro.  I've seen this sort of thing before--always ends in tears.

[picolo]

Unfortunately, anybody who bought in above 7 or 8 hundred will forever be victim to one of histories biggest accidental trolls. Nothing will ever change that

700$ is twice the current price but we can get there in a short rally. The real potential is 10k$ or more within years.

Silly old man missed the boat so he tries to sell a book. Sad. He should find Jesus.

He thinks he missed the boat but he didn't since there is the potential of a 10,000profit

I stand corrected. I actually meant to say he thinks he missed the boat.

Yes we agree, he didn't missed anything

[Coinshot]

These types of negative sentiment shows that the bottom is in. It may go lower some more but we are more likely to see more upwards movement than downwards.

[ParabellumLite]

One thing nobody's mentioned in this thread yet -- a possible huge wild card in all of it -- regarding bitcoin's future value and the possibility of at least one more 10X spike happening someday soon, is the entry of Wall Street and large institutional investor money into this space.

So far, because bitcoin is not any kind of "regulated" asset or investment vehicle, the big-money players have been prohibited (by LAW) from getting into it, in any significant capacity.  (Note this doesn't mean they haven't been fooling around, maybe even "meddling" with it, in some "unofficial" or background, off-books, covert sort of way... which I totally believe is possible or even VERY likely).

The fact that Silicon Valley VC money has been pouring into the space, makes the entire "sales pitch" for these guys more and more palatable to their clients, vis-a-vis the idea that future USE of bitcoin & blockchain tech will be expanding into more & much EASIER TO USE products and services.

This, IMHO, is a fairly slow incremental process that's been going on all during the last year.

Ever since the Gox crash we've had almost ALL only GOOD news, all year!  Yet the BTC price has gone down, even while every other metric of measuring bitcoin (transactions, hash rate, wallets, difficulty, etc) has continued exponentially UP.

Bottom Line: a "story" is being developed here, for these big-money boyz, which could give these guys the wherewithal that they'll need to *finally* get into bitcoin in a big way.

IF/WHEN that happens... billions of $$$ pouring into the space, there is no other possible price reaction due to the FIXED SUPPLY of existing bitcoins than UP UP UP.

If that doesn't happen?  Well, then, yeah maybe we could remain *stuck* around $500 per BTC forever, of course, or we could even possibly see the entire "experiment" ultimately fail, and BTC price may then go to sub-$100 again.

But, ask yourself this: does anyone you know who's started to use bitcoin ever gone back to NOT using it, at all?

There are very few users already, of course: out of 100 people you ask on the street if they use bitcoin you'd be lucky to probably find ONE actual user.  But if you put 100 bitcoin users into a room and ask how many of 'em are NOT using it any more at all... I think the number there would be zero or very, very low.

This, alone, means adoption & use is still increasing... despite the price dropping.

And a growing market is NEVER something that Wall Street or Silicon Valley *EVER* leaves alone for very long.

Tell me, how much did you buy (recently) and at what price? I have carefully read all you tried to say here, but to come up with the idea that 2014 so far is a positive year after the Mt. Gox downfall really is delusional. It is not, nor is the argument that 'the big players' are just waiting to step in or moreover, that this is inevitable. Bitcoin can simply die due to altcoin competition in the next 12 months (as in, losing it's n1 place and slowly grinding down to 1) and then there's of course the issue if governments will actually allow Bitcoin to exist in the long run.

In each case wake up, and smell the coffee. The moon is not happening.

Choosing to ignore continual increases in adoption and venture capital reveals a hidden agenda.  Thanks for your entirely one-sided post but thankfully most people on these boards are too smart to be affected by comments like that

I have noticed no such increase in adoption in my personal surroundings. Venture capital invests remain present, but it isn't called venture capital for nothing. The chance that the entire ediface might crumble is very real, if not much more likely than that Bitcoin will ever become a major success. For now, Bitcoin in the minds of the people that have actually even heard of it (few that is) is being identified with fraud, theft and shady business in general. It is going to take more than the average rant about 'ever increasing adoption', and that 'big money is coming'.

Bitcoin has been in a bear market since the China crash of last year and will probably remain in a bear market for quite a while longer. The failed rally (the one that lasted a few days) has thoroughly reaffirmed market sentiment as it exists now. Expect us to go down much further than this, maybe already before the end of 2014. And besides: what people do is their own concern. I simply like to point it out when they've lost all connection to reality regarding Bitcoin. Unfortunately, quite a few people here suffer from the same illness. They have repeated their bullshit so often that they actually started to believe it.

[bitebits]

I am a big proponent of the idea of collecting all the trolls and losing faith complainy pants into this one single topic. Thanks OP!

[KeyJockey]

I have noticed no such increase in adoption in my personal surroundings.

LOL... oh, okay then, you're right! OMG how could I have been so stupid?  

Of course, your own personal observations -- constituting a tiny, nay, miniscule, microscopic, beyond statistically insignificant sample size of actual data, MUST be more valuable and *correct* in the face of the massive irrefutable data evidence that's easily seen on the blockchain.info site's CHARTS alone.  Wow, man!  You're brilliant!  LOL.  Not.

These types of negative sentiment shows that the bottom is in.

Heh, you beat me to it with this post.  

I was gonna say the mere existence of this thread and it's several strident nay-saying posters = strongest evidence I've seen yet that "capitulation" is here.  

P.S. {Edit} Just for a bit more long-term viewpoint, i.e. larger data-sample size again, instead of looking at just the last year's BTC price alone here's a reminder of the log-scale BTC price from the very beginning, 4+ years...

Looks like a pretty good long-term investment, doesn't it?  Anyone see any real permanent "crash" in there anywhere? 

Yeah, no, didn't think so... LOL   

[ParabellumLite]

I have noticed no such increase in adoption in my personal surroundings.

LOL... oh, okay then, you're right! OMG how could I have been so stupid?  

Of course, your own personal observations -- constituting a tiny, nay, miniscule, microscopic, beyond statistically insignificant sample size of actual data, MUST be more valuable and *correct* in the face of the massive irrefutable data evidence that's easily seen on the blockchain.info site's CHARTS alone.  Wow, man!  You're brilliant!  LOL.  Not.

These types of negative sentiment shows that the bottom is in.

Heh, you beat me to it with this post.  

I was gonna say the mere existence of this thread and it's several strident nay-saying posters = strongest evidence I've seen yet that "capitulation" is here.  

P.S. {Edit} Just for a bit more long-term viewpoint, i.e. larger data-sample size again, instead of looking at just the last year's BTC price alone here's a reminder of the log-scale BTC price from the very beginning, 4+ years...

Looks like a pretty good long-term investment, doesn't it?  Anyone see any real permanent "crash" in there anywhere? 

Yeah, no, didn't think so... LOL   

Indeed, because it is a rule of nature that the past is a guarantee for the future right? In other words: Bitcoin grew tremendously in the past, so it MUST keep on growing in the future. If this really is the cornerstone of your belief in Bitcoin, or any stock in that regard that fits this profile, then you will be in for a sobering surprise at some point.

About my earlier comment about personal surroundings: this including what I pick up in the media over here (Western Europe), and Bitcoin just is not a topic in mainstream media, nor do I ever hear people talking about on the (financial) news. I don't read about it in newspapers, nor do I really read about it on sites not dedicated to Bitcoin. It is not unreasonable to say that Bitcoin is not alive under the people and the single time the mainstream media divert their attention towards it, it is because something bad happened again.

[abs350]

Oh god. Pleeeeeasseee. This thread is full of the typical bull market sentiments.

"Oh, wall st isn't here yet"

"The big money is coming"

bla bla bla.

Hey!!! The value of bitcoin depends only on what other people think, not on any rational figure. Any rational intrinsic value is impossible to come up with. There is no way you can justify a long term investment in bitcoin, unless it's in a really small (as a % of your net worth) amount.

High risk, high reward! The value of bitcoin will fluctuate. Bull market arguments are bullshit!!!!!! Bear market arguments are bullshit!! Period!

If you want wealth stability and insurance, and a pleasant, relaxing worry-free existence, buy gold.

If you want high stakes, high volality, high reward and high stress buy bitcoin.

Ok probably Im a few months / years short of saying that, but clearly the value of bitcoin will continue to fluctuate wildly in both directions. In the words of the venerable, the master, the legend, our savior that is Alan Greenspan: “It has to have intrinsic value. You have to really stretch your imagination to infer what the intrinsic value of Bitcoin is. ”

[Biodom]

“It has to have intrinsic value. You have to really stretch your imagination to infer what the intrinsic value of Bitcoin is. ”

It is such a nonsensical statement. What is the intrinsic value of internet www or TCP/IP?
The ability to send money or other value eventually anywhere anytime for a small fee and have it confirmed in ~10 min has to be worth something.

[johnyj]

It is human nature that the exchange rate can not sustain such a huge rise in such a short timee: Human are getting used to single or double digit percent increase in investment return. A large increase in price will scare most of the prudent investors and they will just wait for a better chance. And the high exchange rate make lots of early adopters to cash out their coin

More important, the user base and real world usage are expanding, but at a pace of 3-4x per year, that can not support a price increase of 100x in two years, so it will take some time until they find a balance

At the same time, mining hash power has expanded dramatically, but that mostly come from the technology shift, not from a cost perspective. To sustain an exchange rate increase of 100x, there should be 100x more cost spent on mining, that is not the case right now, most of the miners have so far increased their cost by one magnitude averagely

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Unfortunately, anybody who bought in above 7 or 8 hundred will forever be victim to one of histories biggest accidental trolls. Nothing will ever change that

700$ is twice the current price but we can get there in a short rally. The real potential is 10k$ or more within years.

Silly old man missed the boat so he tries to sell a book. Sad. He should find Jesus.

He thinks he missed the boat but he didn't since there is the potential of a 10,000profit

I stand corrected. I actually meant to say he thinks he missed the boat.

Yes we agree, he didn't missed anything

Some people rode gold all the way down from $1800. Is it that hard to admit that some boats can be missed? I don't think this is a stretch of imagination. Does anyone here think gold will reach all time highs again? For example

[jonald_fyookball]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

Maybe cause it's a bubble?

An "asset" with no intrinsic value???

Best to sell now before it gets to zero.

What did it for me was, as a US citizen, having to report all conversions of BTC to the IRS.  BTC -> USD, BTC -> gold, BTC -> dinner .. all require IRS disclosure.  Basically, it makes Bitcoin irrelevant as a "currency" if you plan on following the rules.  Well played, IRS, well played.

I dont think so.  You are required to pay capital gains tax at the end of the year.  Who said you need to report all conversions?  

This. Also, you are assuming that you'll have any BTC-related income to report. I think, for most people this year, the IRS provisions are a Godsend because they can now claim losses.

Depends.  If you're buying Bitcoin as an investment, this makes sense.  If you planned on spending your Bitcoin on a regular basis (using it as a currency, which is the whole point), just be prepared to report all liquidations to the IRS (even coffee).  Will they find out about small transactions?  Probably not.  Larger ones may attract their attention.  Be careful who you brag to, because the IRS is now giving cash rewards to people who report "tax cheats".  Also, if you play around on a non-US exchange like Bitstamp, you would be foolish to assume the IRS doesn't already have a list of US traders who have gone through the account verification process.  If there's one government institution you do not want to mess with, it is the IRS.

Sidenote, whether or not FATCA applies to foreign Bitcoin exchanges is still in limbo.  This will probably be resolved in the first round of Bitcoin IRS audits coming down the pipe.

its a non issue.  The IRS won't be coming after you for a cup of coffee.  trust me.
by the time bitcoin is widely adopted there will be user friendly apps to help track this
stuff...I'm sure some are being developed now and may even already exist.

[traderCJ]

its a non issue.  The IRS won't be coming after you for a cup of coffee.  trust me.
by the time bitcoin is widely adopted there will be user friendly apps to help track this
stuff...I'm sure some are being developed now and may even already exist.

It most certainly is an issue.

I never said they'd come after you for a cup of coffee.  That's a strawman.  They sure as hell will come after you for any large purchases like real estate or vehicles.  That's really not the point, though.  By the letter of the law, all Bitcoin transactions must be reported to the IRS, if you're a U.S. citizen.  Think about it.  A currency should not require an app to remain in compliance with tax code.  What you're failing to realize is that by that stroke of the pen, the IRS has relegated Bitcoin to be something other than a currency in the U.S.  In my opinion, this is the first thing that needs to be changed.  I doubt it will, ever.  It was a purely deliberate move to force regular users of Bitcoin to either throttle back on their Bitcoin use in order to remain compliant with tax code, or simply skirt the law.  Either way, the statists win.

[jonald_fyookball]

its a non issue.  The IRS won't be coming after you for a cup of coffee.  trust me.
by the time bitcoin is widely adopted there will be user friendly apps to help track this
stuff...I'm sure some are being developed now and may even already exist.

It most certainly is an issue.

I never said they'd come after you for a cup of coffee.  That's a strawman.  They sure as hell will come after you for any large purchases like real estate or vehicles.  That's really not the point, though.  By the letter of the law, all Bitcoin transactions must be reported to the IRS, if you're a U.S. citizen.  Think about it.  A currency should not require an app to remain in compliance with tax code.  What you're failing to realize is that by that stroke of the pen, the IRS has relegated Bitcoin to be something other than a currency in the U.S.  In my opinion, this is the first thing that needs to be changed.  I doubt it will, ever.  It was a purely deliberate move to force regular users of Bitcoin to either throttle back on their Bitcoin use in order to remain compliant with tax code, or simply skirt the law.  Either way, the statists win.

There are pros and cons to Bitcoin being a currency vs a commodity.
Not a very empowering attitude you're expressing.  Get into the
solution, brah.

According to you, "the statists won" because we might need an app
to follow the letter of the law ?   If its an issue, we will deal with it,
work around it, whatever... its certainly not a fatal flaw.

HEY THAT RHYMES   

[tabnloz]

Ok probably Im a few months / years short of saying that, but clearly the value of bitcoin will continue to fluctuate wildly in both directions. In the words of the venerable, the master, the legend, our savior that is Alan Greenspan: “It has to have intrinsic value. You have to really stretch your imagination to infer what the intrinsic value of Bitcoin is. ”

Well trolled Sir.

Greenspan's advice during his reign was consistently wrong and he completely missed the biggest crash in decades.

What I think is that no one knows how this will turn out and so the $10k by 201X crowd are just excitable.

But, regardless of bull/bear leanings or your viewpoint on regs, if NYFDS regs are introduced it will provide a playing field for Wall St to put $$ in to.

Also, importantly in my view, it will change the media narrative. Less drugs/ML and a shift from blockchain good, bitcoin bad to S.o.V-24/7- instant-secure-convienient way to pay.

[dinofelis]

Some people rode gold all the way down from $1800. Is it that hard to admit that some boats can be missed? I don't think this is a stretch of imagination. Does anyone here think gold will reach all time highs again? For example

That ride is similar to what bitcoin did since september :-)  grossly 1/3 of the exchange rate down, if you take the 1800 versus 1200 for gold now, and the 470 (September) to 350 (now) of bitcoin.

[adaseb]

My guess is lack of innovation. Many businesses are scams or get hacked and people end up losing money.

Future not looking too bright at the moment.

[tabnloz]

Some people rode gold all the way down from $1800. Is it that hard to admit that some boats can be missed? I don't think this is a stretch of imagination. Does anyone here think gold will reach all time highs again? For example

That ride is similar to what bitcoin did since september :-)  grossly 1/3 of the exchange rate down, if you take the 1800 versus 1200 for gold now, and the 470 (September) to 350 (now) of bitcoin.

I don't think it is a blight on bitcoin or gold, more a result of money running into stocks and the USD rising.

Will gold go to ATH's? I think while there is global QE, no. The US have stopped but the BoJ has picked up the baton. When the BoJ's printing runs out of steam I think the ECB will announce more straight forward QE (Draghi's words still have the desired effect & their current method is sneaky QE).

If, however, confidence in the policy nosedives or some geo-pol events explodes, then hello Gold / Bitcoin spike.

[dinofelis]

I just do not know why some people can still make big money when prices fall.

Short selling, of course. But what we really need is better options markets so that we can still make big money when prices stay the same. I hate stability.

Binary options ?

[dinofelis]

Some people rode gold all the way down from $1800. Is it that hard to admit that some boats can be missed? I don't think this is a stretch of imagination. Does anyone here think gold will reach all time highs again? For example

That ride is similar to what bitcoin did since september :-)  grossly 1/3 of the exchange rate down, if you take the 1800 versus 1200 for gold now, and the 470 (September) to 350 (now) of bitcoin.

I don't think it is a blight on bitcoin or gold, more a result of money running into stocks and the USD rising.

The USD rising wouldn't mean so much.  After all, that would have meant all other fiats falling at the same rate, which is not strongly the case.  Since this summer, the USD won less than 10% as compared to EUR for instance and that's maybe more the EUR falling than the USD rising.

My idea is that after the "black tulips" of last year,  the bubble has been deflating for more than a year and bitcoin is coming into another regime, more mature.   I don't think huge rallies are still a possibility.  Next time there would be a jump to $1000,- in a week's time, many people who bought this year will sell to cover their losses, and nobody is going to make the same mistakes as those who bought at $800,- and so - the price cannot stay there very long.  That would result again in a similar crash as in the beginning of this year, but this time people are not going to sustain the slow decay, and will cut losses.  Nobody (contrary to those buying at $1000, or at $800 last year) is going to believe in a sustained high price so that they will panic-buy to "get on the train" anymore.  If it spikes to $1000,-, people will hold their buy orders, might give their sell orders, and will wait for the price to come down, which it then surely will !  No market manipulator can sustain a high price and cover all the losses of this year (when people sell) plus the 3600 coins a day mined, unless he's willing to spend a lot of money on that (tens or hunderds of millions of $ a week). 
The reason is simply that the market fundamentals for bitcoin cannot sustain such a high price for the moment.  The gold market share is not large enough yet, and merchant adoption is not wide enough for the moment.  I even think that the current price can only be sustained because only a small fraction of the coins are liquid at this moment (most are held), and I would guess that most merchant adoption is still in the black market.

In other words, in my opinion, bitcoin came to a sort of "market maturity" and now the price will follow bitcoin's adoption (somewhat ahead, speculatively), so all long term price evolution will be rather slow.  Up or down, depending on adoption.  $10 000.- or $100 000,- are not out of reach, but not overnight, only when the fundamentals allow it.
$1.- is also a possibility.  The assigned probabilities to those future prices makes up the current market price.

[Wekkel]

So in essence, its still a way better bet than the lottery.

[TheTribesman]

I like the 'bigger fools' theory.

[dinofelis]

The only steps to get higher prices/value for BTC. If any of the traders miners in this world would start to buy a 0.1 each BTC price will rise to 1000$ easily and if anybody will keep holding it, it will always keep the exponential rise pattern.

... which would serve no purpose at all except making you somewhat poorer than you would have been without those coins.

Because what's the point in sitting on a stash of coins that are "worth a billion", on the condition that you never sell them ?  If you never spend them, the only thing you did was to have wasted some fiat you could have used to buy something you enjoyed (a holiday, a car, a new computer, a present for someone) into something you will never turn into something of any use.

Money is a store of value.... with the idea to cash in on that value one day.  Money doesn't serve any other purpose.

If bitcoin is to be money, it has to be spend on buying stuff that is actually useful to people.  Next week, next year, 10 years from now, it doesn't matter.  But it has to be spend buying stuff. 

To illustrate this, consider the following:

if you are really onto holding coins for ever, throw away your private keys !
Now, where will that bring you ? :-)

[lionelpaul]

If bitcoin is to be money, it has to be spend on buying stuff that is actually useful to people.  Next week, next year, 10 years from now, it doesn't matter.  But it has to be spend buying stuff. 

Totally agree.
It's strange to see people complaining every day about the rise and fall of BTC against $, which comes from speculation, while treating Bitcoin only as a speculative tool... Are you paying the same attention to the price of $ against € or £ or any other currency? Probably not, and the reason is that you don't care: you're just using your dollars every day, to buy stuff and live.

The most important thing about Bitcoin's future is not its value in fiat, it's its adoption. We should not be concerned about whether BTC will be worth $100 or $10,000. We should worry about the possibility that one day, 10,000,000 merchants worldwide accept Bitcoin, (instead of 100,000 now). When Bitcoin is accepted pretty much everywhere, nobody will care much about its value against USD.

[dinofelis]

If bitcoin is to be money, it has to be spend on buying stuff that is actually useful to people.  Next week, next year, 10 years from now, it doesn't matter.  But it has to be spend buying stuff. 

Totally agree.
It's strange to see people complaining every day about the rise and fall of BTC against $, which comes from speculation, while treating Bitcoin only as a speculative tool... Are you paying the same attention to the price of $ against € or £ or any other currency? Probably not, and the reason is that you don't care: you're just using your dollars every day, to buy stuff and live.

The most important thing about Bitcoin's future is not its value in fiat, it's its adoption. We should not be concerned about whether BTC will be worth $100 or $10,000. We should worry about the possibility that one day, 10,000,000 merchants worldwide accept Bitcoin, (instead of 100,000 now). When Bitcoin is accepted pretty much everywhere, nobody will care much about its value against USD.

Amen.  That's why I'm saying that the most important fundamental of bitcoin is merchant adoption.
Without that, bitcoin is indeed just a Ponzi scheme. And with that, it cannot go wrong.

For the moment, merchant adoption is on the rise, but I don't think that the current merchant adoption can even carry the current market cap - except maybe merchant adoption in the black markets.

This is why we shouldn't expect any sustainable price rise soon in my opinion, and yet another bursting bubble will do bitcoin more harm than good. 

Price will rise when merchant adoption generalizes, and if it doesn't generalize, bitcoin is essentially dead.  But that will take time.

[SunBin]

I bought in at 1000 , 750 , 650 , 450 , 350 , 270 , 350 , 420 , 350

Why are we still going down?
Is bitcoin failing?

It looks like he is right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

He sound like a genius right now. I don't think it is a coincidence Satoshi left this community.

[arbitrage001]

Everyone know bitcoin is a bubble. Some cash out too earlier and regret their actions.

It is not too late to cash out if one is an early adopter.

[piramida]

Everyone know bitcoin is a bubble.

Everyone know arbitrage001 is a dummy.

See? That's the sound of your empty statement with absolutely no ties to reality collapsing under it's own stupidity.

[picolo]

Everyone know bitcoin is a bubble. Some cash out too earlier and regret their actions.

It is not too late to cash out if one is an early adopter.

Early adopters that didn't believe in Bitcoin sold at 10$ or 30$ and were wrong so they don't have many bitcoins to sell anymore

[KeyJockey]

Indeed, because it is a rule of nature that the past is a guarantee for the future right? In other words: Bitcoin grew tremendously in the past, so it MUST keep on growing in the future. If this really is the cornerstone of your belief in Bitcoin, or any stock in that regard that fits this profile, then you will be in for a sobering surprise at some point.

Well of course "Past Performance Is No Guarantee Of Future Results", and if you actually READ what I wrote, you may notice that I said, multiple times, that "it may not happen" and "that's the risk we take" and etc.  But thanks for your kind concern for my financial wellbeing anyway I guess, LOL.

However, are you *seriously* advocating an investment ideology equivalent to buying stock of companies who's market share, customer base, sales total, etc... nevermind simply "stock price" -- are on long-term DOWN trends?

Given two stocks, one of which is going generally up and getting increased customers and the other of which is going generally downward and getting fewer customers, I'd say that, on average, the UP TREND one will always end up doing better than the DOWNTREND one.

"No Guarantee" of course but, again, in GENERAL, on AVERAGE.

About my earlier comment about personal surroundings: this including what I pick up in the media over here (Western Europe), and Bitcoin just is not a topic in mainstream media, nor do I ever hear people talking about on the (financial) news. I don't read about it in newspapers, nor do I really read about it on sites not dedicated to Bitcoin...

LOL okay, so you also advocate taking all your investment data only from what the mainstream media tells you to believe?  Great, good luck with that.

I'd recommend, instead, actually looking at the investment, the company, the product, the MARKET DATA for yourself and then make your decisions based on your own intelligence and careful analysis of ALL data.... not just what the Tee Vee Talking Heads tell you is "truth".

But, anyway, yeah okay whatever man: if you don't like bitcoin any more... sell it.  Get out if you can't handle the long term volatility, or whatever.

The rest of us who can SEE what's really valuable and important will be happy to take your coins off your hands, no problem. 

[neurotypical]

I just do not know why some people can still make big money when prices fall.

Market manipulation and/or luck. Can't predict chaos.

[Daanie]

your name zeurpiet makes sense. lol. Nah, there are big times to come, but you were unlucky so far. Maybe trading isn't your thing.

[NotLambchop]

...LOL okay, so you also advocate taking all your investment data only from what the mainstream media tells you to believe?  Great, good luck with that.
...

I prefer to get my investment data opinions from the seediest corners of the intertubes, from Anon going by "KeyJockey" if at all possible

[johnyj]

Actually the biggest faith in bitcoin lies in the fact that fiat money is a Ponzi scheme. As long as this scam continues and more and more people start to discover this scam, bitcoin will always find its ground: Maybe bitcoin is not very ideal, but fiat money is an unsustainable Ponzi scheme

[Foxpup]

I just do not know why some people can still make big money when prices fall.

Short selling, of course. But what we really need is better options markets so that we can still make big money when prices stay the same. I hate stability.

Binary options ?

No, vanilla options.

[KeyJockey]

I prefer to get my investment data opinions from the seediest corners of the intertubes, from Anon going by "KeyJockey"

Ha, well lucky for you that I'm here then, eh?   I aim's ta please: happy to oblige  

Srsly, it's all just 'data' -- even "opinion" is "information" and ya gotta collect as much input as possible, then process it as objectively and carefully as you can, to have any chance of a really solid OUTPUT in any attempt to figure this stuff out.

This shit's just difficult, no matter how you slice it, and there's always still gonna be an element of random chance luck too.  Anything can FAIL in the end, and the weirdest most bizarre things can succeed too.  Nobody knows.

But compared to the stupid banks offering some pathetic .01% savings interest, and the built-in inflation degrading the dollar, I'm personally quite happy to park the fruits of my labor in bitcoin, even if it HAS been going down all year.

Maybe that makes me "delusional" as some above have said, or maybe a year or two from now if BTC is going for $10,000+ some people will look back at this thread and say, "Wow that guy was really a visionary"... LOL.  We'll see, one way or the other, but either way I'm happy with my decision no matter which way it ends up.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained

[NotLambchop]

...
Maybe that makes me "delusional" as some above have said, or maybe a year or two from now if BTC is going for $10,000+ some people will look back at this thread and say, "Wow that guy was really a visionary"... LOL.  ...

"We will go down in history either as the world's greatest visionaries or its biggest lolcows."--Satöshi Göring

[KeyJockey]

"LolCow"....?  So, I'm funny, how I mean, funny like I'm a clown?  I'm here to fuckin' amuse you?     

http://youtu.be/IWINtUCshxY

 

[scryptasicminer]

...
Maybe that makes me "delusional" as some above have said, or maybe a year or two from now if BTC is going for $10,000+ some people will look back at this thread and say, "Wow that guy was really a visionary"... LOL.  ...

"We will go down in history either as the world's greatest visionaries or its biggest lolcows."--Satöshi Göring

Did satoshi actually say this? Where is his original post if you don't mind linking.

[Daanie]

"LolCow"....?  So, I'm funny, how I mean, funny like I'm a clown?  I'm here to fuckin' amuse you?     

http://youtu.be/IWINtUCshxY

 

You sound like a gta v character in my head right now. Lol

[NotLambchop]

...
Maybe that makes me "delusional" as some above have said, or maybe a year or two from now if BTC is going for $10,000+ some people will look back at this thread and say, "Wow that guy was really a visionary"... LOL.  ...

"We will go down in history either as the world's greatest visionaries or its biggest lolcows."--Satöshi Göring

Did satoshi actually say this? Where is his original post if you don't mind linking.

Original post was deleted.

[jonald_fyookball]

who da fawk is Satoshi Goring ?

[Omikifuse]

You already 25 up your 350 bought.


Could be worse

[picolo]

You already 25 up your 350 bought.


Could be worse

35 up now. You should keep faith, maybe forget about the price and even Bitcoin for a few months then come back.

[KeyJockey]

You already 25 up your 350 bought.

Well actually if Zeurpiet bought ONE bitcoin at each of the prices he/she listed in the original post, then they've invested a total of $4590 so far, for a total holding of 9 BTC (assuming they've never sold or lost any of it), and at a dollar-cost average price per-bitcoin of about $510 each.

So, no, they're not "UP" yet... still got a way's to go. 

Hodl Hodl Hodl 

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

You already 25 up your 350 bought.

Well actually if Zeurpiet bought ONE bitcoin at each of the prices he/she listed in the original post, then they've invested a total of $4590 so far, for a total holding of 9 BTC (assuming they've never sold or lost any of it), and at a dollar-cost average price per-bitcoin of about $510 each.

So, no, they're not "UP" yet... still got a way's to go. 

Hodl Hodl Hodl 

Why would we ever see $500 again

[poncom]

Why would we ever see $500 again

If that's what you think have you sold all your stash?

[opossum]

You already 25 up your 350 bought.


Could be worse

I don't think this is particularly good (assuming the OP purchased even amounts of bitcoin at the various prices he described in his OP). I think it is good that he can dollar cost average his costs down and purchase more bitcoin at low prices, however I also think that bitcoin needs to increase in value substantially soon so people who bought early this year and late last year can be in the "black"

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Why would we ever see $500 again

If that's what you think have you sold all your stash?

I'm a degenerate gambler and it was a legitimate question

[Daanie]

You already 25 up your 350 bought.


Could be worse

I don't think this is particularly good (assuming the OP purchased even amounts of bitcoin at the various prices he described in his OP). I think it is good that he can dollar cost average his costs down and purchase more bitcoin at low prices, however I also think that bitcoin needs to increase in value substantially soon so people who bought early this year and late last year can be in the "black"

It's also not particularly that bad. If he's suicidal right now I wonder what he'd do when the prices drop to €200. I think he's just trolling though, his name hints to that

[picolo]

You already 25 up your 350 bought.


Could be worse

I don't think this is particularly good (assuming the OP purchased even amounts of bitcoin at the various prices he described in his OP). I think it is good that he can dollar cost average his costs down and purchase more bitcoin at low prices, however I also think that bitcoin needs to increase in value substantially soon so people who bought early this year and late last year can be in the "black"

Or you could accept being down 20% and just use bitcoins when needed and keep it as a decentralized store of value without third party risk.

[poncom]

Why would we ever see $500 again

If that's what you think have you sold all your stash?

I'm a degenerate gambler and it was a legitimate question

I try to keep an open mind about the price. Perhaps falllling was right and the price will keep going down to nothing. Or the price might rise to $5000 because of all the other degenerate gamblers gambling money on it.

[fewcoins]

Why would we ever see $500 again

If that's what you think have you sold all your stash?

I'm a degenerate gambler and it was a legitimate question

I try to keep an open mind about the price. Perhaps falllling was right and the price will keep going down to nothing. Or the price might rise to $5000 because of all the other degenerate gamblers gambling money on it.

That's not how markets work... We are in a continued bearish slope & it's not stopping

[cbeast]

Why would we ever see $500 again

If that's what you think have you sold all your stash?

I'm a degenerate gambler and it was a legitimate question

I try to keep an open mind about the price. Perhaps falllling was right and the price will keep going down to nothing. Or the price might rise to $5000 because of all the other degenerate gamblers gambling money on it.

That's not how markets work... We are in a continued bearish slope & it's not stopping

And it's the same sock puppets that say the same nonsense year after year after year. The lamentations of the weak never get old. Your soulful cries whet the appetites of the Bitcoin Jungle predators. Meow.