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[Vrontis]

Are you aware that we also have Arbitrary Transaction for uploading arbitrary bits of data to the blockchain?    I wonder if we can use that to our advantage...

Yes i am.
You are actually asking the right person the right question. Why are you asking?

Talking about Arbitrary Messages can we please get rid of this Base58 encoding in API calls.
Look at the Qora Base58 implementation (@https://github.com/Qora/Qora/blob/master/Qora/src/qora/crypto/Base58.java ) and you will see it was never designed to process large amounts of Data like a 4kb Arbitrary Message.
In fact it's ridiculous slow and memory consuming. Can we please switch to HEX encoding for the next version?

This has been applied by Qora and it will be followed for the next releases that the AT team will handle.
Qora rules will be followed.

[calvinstm]

Yes i am.
You are actually asking the right person the right question. Why are you asking?

Talking about Arbitrary Messages can we please get rid of this Base58 encoding in API calls.
Look at the Qora Base58 implementation (@https://github.com/Qora/Qora/blob/master/Qora/src/qora/crypto/Base58.java ) and you will see it was never designed to process large amounts of Data like a 4kb Arbitrary Message.
In fact it's ridiculous slow and memory consuming. Can we please switch to HEX encoding for the next version?

LOL 

Are you sure you're not Qora Dev in disguise???    I was starting to have my suspicion.  There is no way you're a newbie with 4 posts.. lol

Funny you should mention it because I actually talked to Qora Dev about size limit (message size)... I cannot recall what he told me, but I am pretty sure it was never designed for large amount of data...

HEX is a good choice.. In fact, I think you should be Qora's lead dev.. I hereby nominate you! haha.

Think about that, friend.. 

[CIYAM]

The account would be determined as a hash of the actual machine code for the AT (which might also take into account the account of the creator and perhaps some other metadata such as its description, etc. to ensure there should be very little chance that your AT create tx fails due to an existing AT with the same account id).

All initial data for an AT is part of the AT creation tx (so is of course stored in the blockchain) but subsequent state data does not need to be sent around nor stored in the blockchain (just the hash of it does).

AT is actually an extremely "lean and mean" design (and IMO the most efficient Turing complete solution on offer).

[calvinstm]

So I just thought of this...

Let's say we have a portal/gateway that sells an AT-enabled token CIYAM-Bitcoin (which represents a Bitcoin IOU in the trading network) and set the exchange rate of Bitcoin to CIYAM-Bitcoin to 1:1. This portal is solely responsible for converting Bitcoin to AT-enable Bitcoin IOU (CIYAM-Bitcoin) and vice versa.

Doesn't that mean we will have the means to trade BITCOIN against any other AT-enabled cryptocurrency (Qora and Burst for starter)?

So a fully decentralized bitcoin-based exchange is certainly feasible, don't you think?

[calvinstm]

The account would be determined as a hash of the actual machine code for the AT (which might also take into account the account of the creator and perhaps some other metadata such as its description, etc. to ensure there should be very little chance that your AT create tx fails due to an existing AT with the same account id).

All initial data for an AT is part of the AT creation tx (so is of course stored in the blockchain) but subsequent state data does not need to be sent around nor stored in the blockchain (just the hash of it does).

AT is actually an extremely "lean and mean" design (and IMO the most efficient Turing complete solution on offer).

Thank you! I got it..  So nothing is being changed or stored at runtime (both data and code remain persistent).  Even the account hash is determined based on an amalgam of data.

That's brilliant!  Thanks for the explanation.  

[CIYAM]

So a fully decentralized bitcoin-based exchange is certainly feasible, don't you think?

The problem is basically achieving ACCT with Bitcoin - the technique that forum member TierNolan outlined is what the ACCT AT was based upon but it relies upon nLockTime which is "non-standard" (until after the time has been reached) so although possible it would be a bit clumsy to do with Bitcoin.

With Qora to Burst it will have a simple UI and work without requiring trust or any centralised website.

[calvinstm]

Speaking of GUI, I asked Qora Dev a question concerning GUI a long time ago (when we had weekly 'features' votes... One of the things was "Wallet Upgrades")... He told me GUI would eventually go OS.  But looks like he forgot to OS certain things before he left..

Hi Qora Dev,

I have an idea for the wallet upgrade option today.  I was thinking, what if we have a custom plugins and skin/theme system for Qora wallet?  So 3rd party developer can create different plugins to expand the features of Qora wallet (and artists can create custom themes).  To accomplish that, I'm thinking you will probably need a scripting engine (maybe based on Lua). 

For instance, there is a folder called "Plugins" and another folder called "Theme" inside wallet folder.  At the startup, the wallet will load all the plugins and skin/theme inside those folders.

Do you think it's something that can be added to the Wallet Upgrade option in voting list?    If you don't like my idea, just ignore it. No worries. 

Another thing, could you tell me how much time (approximate) is needed to do wallet upgrades? I think it should take no more 1 week. Am I wrong in assuming this?

Thank you!

PS: You're the best!

This could be done easily when the GUI is opensource.
It already uses a system to change to the OS theme.

[calvinstm]

So a fully decentralized bitcoin-based exchange is certainly feasible, don't you think?

The problem is basically achieving ACCT with Bitcoin - the technique that forum member TierNolan outlined is what the ACCT AT was based upon but it relies upon nLockTime which is "non-standard" (until after the time has been reached) so although possible it would be a bit clumsy to do with Bitcoin.

With Qora to Burst it will have a simple UI and work without requiring trust or any centralised website.

I understand having an intermediary coin is also a clumsy way to solve the problem, but I just thought it might be easier than doing a real ACCT with Bitcoin.    I don't know.

It seems like we're having a race to see which group will come up with a working decentralized exchange first (SuperNet, MGW, InstantDEX come to mind)..

I really hope to see AT becomes the dominant player.

[CIYAM]

We are hoping to get a Bitcoin clone to implement AT (it has been designed in a way that it should be able to work with Bitcoin's Script engine with just one new op code being required).

If this is achieved then AT would end up being the "standard" method to do such ACCT transfers and a marketplace could evolve in each supporting blockchain.

[calvinstm]

If this is achieved then AT would end up being the "standard" method to do such ACCT transfers and a marketplace could evolve in each supporting blockchain.

Wow!! Very encouraging news! It'd certainly be awesome to see AT becomes the de facto standard for ACCT transfers!

Do we have a candidate already?    It will be a major win for AT system if we can convince one of the two big guys (Litecoin or Dodgecoin) to incorporate AT into its core and serve as base currency in the AT system.

But before that can happen, I'm sure we need to get a smaller coin onboard first (to show that we have a viable and stable working system).

Happy with the direction AT is going!  Glad to have you here, CIYAM!

[CIYAM]

But before that can happen, I'm sure we need to get a smaller coin onboard first (to show that we have a viable and stable working system).

This is our main focus for now - improving AT (there is now both an assembler and a debugger) and getting ACCT to work across two blockchains.

[Djinou94]

We are hoping to get a Bitcoin clone to implement AT (it has been designed in a way that it should be able to work with Bitcoin's Script engine with just one new op code being required).

If this is achieved then AT would end up being the "standard" method to do such ACCT transfers and a marketplace could evolve in each supporting blockchain.

Original Bitcoin 

[olcaytu2005]

 Atomic Cross-Chain Transfer means that i can transfer my bitcoins to qora or burst or another altcoins blockchain? it means ACCT can be used like an p2p exchange ? am i wrong?

[Vrontis]

Atomic Cross-Chain Transfer means that i can transfer my bitcoins to qora or burst or another altcoins blockchain? it means ACCT can be used like an p2p exchange ? am i wrong?

ACCT does not mean that you can move your Qora coin into your burst wallet.
It means that you can trade your Qora coins for Burst coins (selling your Qora to buy Burst) in a 100% decentralized way.

[Vrontis]

If this is achieved then AT would end up being the "standard" method to do such ACCT transfers and a marketplace could evolve in each supporting blockchain.

Wow!! Very encouraging news! It'd certainly be awesome to see AT becomes the de facto standard for ACCT transfers!

Do we have a candidate already?    It will be a major win for AT system if we can convince one of the two big guys (Litecoin or Dodgecoin) to incorporate AT into its core and serve as base currency in the AT system.

But before that can happen, I'm sure we need to get a smaller coin onboard first (to show that we have a viable and stable working system).

Happy with the direction AT is going!  Glad to have you here, CIYAM!

Here is a 20 BTC bounty for this!
Spread it, may someone finds it interesting 

[Vrontis]

Speaking of GUI, I asked Qora Dev a question concerning GUI a long time ago (when we had weekly 'features' votes... One of the things was "Wallet Upgrades")... He told me GUI would eventually go OS.  But looks like he forgot to OS certain things before he left..

Hi Qora Dev,

I have an idea for the wallet upgrade option today.  I was thinking, what if we have a custom plugins and skin/theme system for Qora wallet?   So 3rd party developer can create different plugins to expand the features of Qora wallet (and artists can create custom themes).  To accomplish that, I'm thinking you will probably need a scripting engine (maybe based on Lua).  

For instance, there is a folder called "Plugins" and another folder called "Theme" inside wallet folder.  At the startup, the wallet will load all the plugins and skin/theme inside those folders.

Do you think it's something that can be added to the Wallet Upgrade option in voting list?    If you don't like my idea, just ignore it. No worries.  

Another thing, could you tell me how much time (approximate) is needed to do wallet upgrades? I think it should take no more 1 week. Am I wrong in assuming this?

Thank you!

PS: You're the best!

This could be done easily when the GUI is opensource.
It already uses a system to change to the OS theme.

About the wallet and the graphical user interface, Qora told me that he was wanted the wallet's design to follow these rules



Also, about the wallet.
I am working on how we will have an HTML based wallet.It will be achieved by making API calls, it will be based on node.js and the design rules that Qora preferred will be followed.
So far I have managed to create a standalone cross platform application based on node.js and follows those design rules...I need to get now deep into the API to make this app an actual wallet.

Last.. another leak of what Qora was planning about the wallet.

[wizzardTim]

Thank you Vrontis for sharing this, and for the clarifications.

 

[calvinstm]

About the wallet and the graphical user interface, Qora told me that he was wanted the wallet's design to follow these rules



Also, about the wallet.
I am working on how we will have an HTML based wallet.It will be achieved by making API calls, it will be based on node.js and the design rules that Qora preferred will be followed.
So far I have managed to create a standalone cross platform application based on node.js and follows those design rules...I need to get now deep into the API to make this app an actual wallet.

Last.. another leak of what Qora was planning about the wallet.

Thank you so much for sharing this!!  I see that qora dev did left us a lot of valuable insights and let us know the direction where he wished to go.

By the way, Vrontis, speaking of web-based wallet for Qora, I believe ASIC-8Tile had a working web wallet for Qora a long time ago.  It was fully working with nice-looking interface.

You should ask him for a copy.

[calvinstm]

Atomic Cross-Chain Transfer means that i can transfer my bitcoins to qora or burst or another altcoins blockchain? it means ACCT can be used like an p2p exchange ? am i wrong?

ACCT (Atomic Cross-Chain Transfer) between AT-enabled coins (right now only Burst and Qora) will become the basis for a full-fledged decentralized p2p exchange in the future.

What Ian (CIYAM) is trying to do is to first get a Bitcoin-based coin to adopt AT and incorporate AT engine into its core.  

Once we can show that we have a viable and working solution, bigger coins like Doge or LiteCoin (or even Bitcoin) might decide to adopt AT as well.

One advantage of AT over competing technologies (such as MGW or Jame's SuperNet) is that it's fully open-sourced and Devs simply need to take existing solutions (ie. for Nxt-clones/Bitcoin-clones) and incorporate AT into their cores, and voila!  They're now part of AT's ATOMIC trading network.

Another way to think of CIYAM's AT is that... it's like your obedient robotic servant who is up 24/7, and he does everything you tell him to.   Any developer can write AT-based application and upload it to the blockchain.  So if you think about it, the possibilities are truly endless!  For instance, CIYAM's AT is in a position to solve two of the biggest problems Cryptocurrency faces -- Anonymity and decentralized trading.  As you can see from our discussion above, anonymity will be solved via mixing, and decentralized trading will be solved via ACCT.

Read up on CIYAM's AT page for more possible use cases and information.  

[Vrontis]

By the way, Vrontis, speaking of web-based wallet for Qora, I believe ASIC-8Tile had a working web wallet for Qora a long time ago.  It was fully working with nice-looking interface.

Indeed, ASIC-8Tile has worked in the past on a web-based wallet



Post link

And here are the details about it

It will be a local machine installation.
From what I am hearing, not all people like "Deterministic Wallets".
I do. Because of the following...
http://www.coindesk.com/eavesdropping-attack-can-unmask-60-bitcoin-clients/

I am using .html/.js for the front end.
.php to glue the Qora.jar with the JSON api calls
Packaged using PHP Desktop (reduces memory leaks)
https://code.google.com/p/phpdesktop/
and installer for Windows 32/64

The webserver is mongoose for now.
There is a SQLite database that could be used to extend the existing functionality.

I'll send a PM to ASIC-8Tile