permabulls not only lost the control over this section-in fact they are extinct

[JimboToronto]

I have been buying and using bitcoins since they were $0.70. I have never lost any money and if bitcoin went away tomorrow I would walk away having been wildly financially successful. You say that people like me are just sour because we didn't sell at the high.  But I have never and will never sell a bitcoin. I use bitcoin to buy gold bars, guns, land, travel, cars, etc. I don't want or need dollars. I have a bunch of those also from ignoring FUD in other markets.

Bitcoin is a long option to a better world with infinite maturity and zero time value.

If a better world comes, it will be so valuable.
If a worse world comes instead, I think it will also be very valuable 

I am holding.

Ahh, voices of reason.

Buy, hold, spend.

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[NotLambchop]

I know I seem like a downer to you starry-eyed finance enthusiasts; no one likes being told to stop running with scissors. ...

The thing is, your providing an unneeded service. I have been buying and using bitcoins since they were $0.70. I have never lost any money and if bitcoin went away tomorrow I would walk away having been wildly financially successful. You say that people like me are just sour because we didn't sell at the high.  But I have never and will never sell a bitcoin. I use bitcoin to buy gold bars, guns, land, travel, cars, etc. I don't want or need dollars. I have a bunch of those also from ignoring FUD in other markets.

Bitcoin has made money for many, myself included.  Just as those who buy into a pyramid scheme early, and divest in time, get rich.
It's the "divest in time" bit that you seem to be (intentionally?) ignoring.

If not for the n00b money which poured into Bitcoin before the crash, your stash would be worthless, because math.  If people continue to sell, the price will continue to tank.
Of course it's in your best interest to maintain the illusion that all's well

[RodeoX]

I know I seem like a downer ...

The thing is, ...

Bitcoin has made money for many, myself included.  Just as those who buy into a pyramid scheme early, and divest in time, get rich.
It's the "divest in time" bit that you seem to be (intentionally?) ignoring.

If not for the n00b money which poured into Bitcoin before the crash, your stash would be worthless, because math.  If people continue to sell, the price will continue to tank.
Of course it's in your best interest to maintain the illusion that all's well

Unlike you I see no reason whatsoever to think bitcoin is going to be worth less in the future. A ponzi is not based on anything and it's assets have no utility or value. Bitcoin is the single greatest development in payments since the credit card. There is nothing faster, cheaper, or more secure.
Bitcoin has already succeeded wildly, beyond what I would have imagined. That is no surprise considering it's advantages over other payments. It's all I use now.  So when you say I'm ignoring the divestment phase, well I will not be divesting. Unless SHA 256 is broken or something, I will use bitcoin as my money forever.

[NotLambchop]

... Bitcoin is the single greatest development in payments since the credit card. There is nothing faster, cheaper, or more secure. ...

I'm tired of hearing the same tripe regurgitated.

-Bitcoin is tremendously slow.  You aren't new to this, I'm sure you know how long six confirms take.  
A CC transaction takes seconds.
So much for "fast."

-A CC transaction costs the consumer zilch.  I also get to flyer miles as perks.  The argument "the CC fee is already a part of the price" is valid, but opens Bitcoin to an identical one--the miners are compensated for processing transactions with block rewards, currently over 10% BTC market cap per year.
So much for "cheap."

-More secure?  How much of Bitcoin's market cap was lost to theft/hacks/scams?  Start with Mt.Gox.
Bitcoin user has absolutely no recourse when his coin magically vanishes--due to his stupidity or maleficence of others.
CC, on the other hand, offers real buyer protection.
So much for "secure."

[LFC_Bitcoin]

... Bitcoin is the single greatest development in payments since the credit card. There is nothing faster, cheaper, or more secure. ...

I'm tired of hearing the same tripe regurgitated.

-Bitcoin is tremendously slow.  You aren't new to this, I'm sure you know how long six confirms take.  
A CC transaction takes seconds.
So much for "fast."

-A CC transaction costs the consumer zilch.  I also get to flyer miles as perks.  The argument "the CC fee is already a part of the price" is valid, but opens Bitcoin to an identical one--the miners are compensated for processing transactions with block rewards, currently over 10% BTC market cap per year.
So much for "cheap."

-More secure?  How much of Bitcoin's market cap was lost to theft/hacks/scams?  Start with Mt.Gox.
Bitcoin user has absolutely no recourse when his coin magically vanishes--due to his stupidity or maleficence of others.
CC, on the other hand, offers real buyer protection.
So much for "secure."

Unfortunately this is very true atm.
I'd love to just keep all my BTC safely online in a wallet but I can't because there's loads of scumbag hackers stealing peoples hard earned coins.
Paper wallets are annoying but it's the way we have to go.

[RodeoX]

... Bitcoin is the single greatest development in payments since the credit card. There is nothing faster, cheaper, or more secure. ...

I'm tired of hearing the same tripe regurgitated.

-Bitcoin is tremendously slow.  You aren't new to this, I'm sure you know how long six confirms take.  
A CC transaction takes seconds.
So much for "fast."

I don't think you understand how credit cards work. It takes 2-30 days for a credit card to clear, sometimes longer. The retailer receives a promise to pay immediately, but no money. Like checks and the like, identity must be confirmed and that takes at least days. Oh, and because sometimes the identity is fake, you must pay to subsidize the criminals who use the cards also. You don't think that insurance is free do you? 

-A CC transaction costs the consumer zilch.  I also get to flyer miles as perks.  The argument "the CC fee is already a part of the price" is valid, but opens Bitcoin to an identical one--the miners are compensated for processing transactions with block rewards, currently over 10% BTC market cap per year.
So much for "cheap."

MasterCard did not get rich writing checks, they charge you for using their services. And man are they rich. Where did that money come from? Well the retailer has to pay 3%, and that is passed to you, of course. They also make huge money from interest and a million hidden fees. No thanks. I will control my own money and pay only a fee to the miners. That's fine with me as the price is silly low and they are doing something for me.

-More secure?  How much of Bitcoin's market cap was lost to theft/hacks/scams?  Start with Mt.Gox.
Bitcoin user has absolutely no recourse when his coin magically vanishes--due to his stupidity or maleficence of others.
CC, on the other hand, offers real buyer protection.
So much for "secure."

How much was lost in bank robberies this year? Are dollars safe?
If people are not safe with money, someone will take it. Is that your point? If so I agree.
Credit cards offer insurance, which is paid for by you and the retailer. That is not protection. Hell I could buy insurance for bitcoin.

I'm on my 3rd. card this year! MasterCard has proven to me that they CAN'T keep my financial information safe. Fortunately, with bitcoin I control my security and I have never lost a Satoshi.

[juve4v]

... Bitcoin is the single greatest development in payments since the credit card. There is nothing faster, cheaper, or more secure. ...

I'm tired of hearing the same tripe regurgitated.

-Bitcoin is tremendously slow.  You aren't new to this, I'm sure you know how long six confirms take.  
A CC transaction takes seconds.
So much for "fast."

-A CC transaction costs the consumer zilch.  I also get to flyer miles as perks.  The argument "the CC fee is already a part of the price" is valid, but opens Bitcoin to an identical one--the miners are compensated for processing transactions with block rewards, currently over 10% BTC market cap per year.
So much for "cheap."

-More secure?  How much of Bitcoin's market cap was lost to theft/hacks/scams?  Start with Mt.Gox.
Bitcoin user has absolutely no recourse when his coin magically vanishes--due to his stupidity or maleficence of others.
CC, on the other hand, offers real buyer protection.
So much for "secure."

 True, actually bitcoin is NOT the fastest , the cheapest or offer best anonimity

[juve4v]

Bitcoin is a long option to a better world with infinite maturity and zero time value.

If a better world comes, it will be so valuable.
If a worse world comes instead, I think it will also be very valuable 

I am holding.

What happened to Monero?

[NotLambchop]

... Bitcoin is the single greatest development in payments since the credit card. There is nothing faster, cheaper, or more secure. ...

I'm tired of hearing the same tripe regurgitated.

-Bitcoin is tremendously slow.  You aren't new to this, I'm sure you know how long six confirms take.  
A CC transaction takes seconds.
So much for "fast."

I don't think you understand how credit cards work. It takes 2-30 days for a credit card to clear, sometimes longer. The retailer receives a promise to pay immediately, but no money. Like checks and the like, identity must be confirmed and that takes at least days. Oh, and because sometimes the identity is fake, you must pay to subsidize the criminals who use the cards also. You don't think that insurance is free do you?

As a consumer, I do not have to wait more than a few seconds to transact via CC.  The rest of your reply has nothing to do with speed--the point being addressed--and thus irrelevant.

-A CC transaction costs the consumer zilch.  I also get to flyer miles as perks.  The argument "the CC fee is already a part of the price" is valid, but opens Bitcoin to an identical one--the miners are compensated for processing transactions with block rewards, currently over 10% BTC market cap per year.
So much for "cheap."

MasterCard did not get rich writing checks, they charge you for using their services. And man are they rich. Where did that money come from? Well the retailer has to pay 3%, and that is passed to you, of course. They also make huge money from interest and a million hidden fees. No thanks. I will control my own money and pay only a fee to the miners. That's fine with me as the price is silly low and they are doing something for me.

Again, as a consumer, I don't care how much credit card companies make--using CC costs me nothing.  Re. "hidden fees":  Kindly review what you are responding to, the point was addressed.

-More secure?  How much of Bitcoin's market cap was lost to theft/hacks/scams?  Start with Mt.Gox.
Bitcoin user has absolutely no recourse when his coin magically vanishes--due to his stupidity or maleficence of others.
CC, on the other hand, offers real buyer protection.
So much for "secure."

How much was lost in bank robberies this year? Are dollars safe?
If people are not safe with money, someone will take it. Is that your point? If so I agree.
Credit cards offer insurance, which is paid for by you and the retailer. That is not protection. Hell I could buy insurance for bitcoin.

Regardless of how CCs accomplish security & how much it costs, this security both exists and is superior to that offered by BTC, which is none.  Existent security is what you're attempting to address.
But I'll humor you:
If you buy insurance for Bitcoin, odds are ~95% that you are being ripped off, see:  all the "insured" Pirate@40 passthroughs.
Further, your argument is absurd on its face:  For insurance to be meaningful, there must be a trusted third party--the very thing Bitcoin was created to avoid.

I'm on my 3rd. card this year! MasterCard has proven to me that they CAN'T keep my financial information safe. Fortunately, with bitcoin I control my security and I have never lost a Satoshi.

You went through three CC this year?  But you said you use BTC?  

[hacknoid]

... Bitcoin is the single greatest development in payments since the credit card. There is nothing faster, cheaper, or more secure. ...

I'm tired of hearing the same tripe regurgitated.

-Bitcoin is tremendously slow.  You aren't new to this, I'm sure you know how long six confirms take.  
A CC transaction takes seconds.
So much for "fast."

I don't think you understand how credit cards work. It takes 2-30 days for a credit card to clear, sometimes longer. The retailer receives a promise to pay immediately, but no money. Like checks and the like, identity must be confirmed and that takes at least days. Oh, and because sometimes the identity is fake, you must pay to subsidize the criminals who use the cards also. You don't think that insurance is free do you?

As a consumer, I do not have to wait more than a few seconds to transact via CC.  The rest of your reply has nothing to do with speed--the point being addressed--and thus irrelevant.

Compare apples to apples.  Transactions appear (unconfirmed) almost instantly.  Every time I have made a purchase using bitcoin it goes through virtually instantly - and I can happily go on my way.  Confirmations, OTOH, could take up to an hour on average.  So instant=instant (consumer), 1 hr=/=2-30 days (merchant).

-A CC transaction costs the consumer zilch.  I also get to flyer miles as perks.  The argument "the CC fee is already a part of the price" is valid, but opens Bitcoin to an identical one--the miners are compensated for processing transactions with block rewards, currently over 10% BTC market cap per year.
So much for "cheap."

MasterCard did not get rich writing checks, they charge you for using their services. And man are they rich. Where did that money come from? Well the retailer has to pay 3%, and that is passed to you, of course. They also make huge money from interest and a million hidden fees. No thanks. I will control my own money and pay only a fee to the miners. That's fine with me as the price is silly low and they are doing something for me.

Again, as a consumer, I don't care how much credit card companies make--using CC costs me nothing.  Re. "hidden fees":  Kindly review what you are responding to, the point was addressed.

Yes, there is minimal cost to consumer for BTC, vs no noticeable cost for a CC.  However, there are MANY small businesses that do not (want) to take credit cards due to high fees.  They will either encourage you to pay with cash, or simply not accept it for small transaction amounts.  So, you are left with cash as the only alternative.  Great, if you have it.  But you know what?  I can always access my bitcoin wallet on my smartphone.  And I don't wind up with a heavy pile of coins for change.

Oh, and that 10% "inflation" that you are referring to, is constantly getting smaller.  Funny how the purchasing power of BTC has gone up over time (with few exceptions), while the value of a dollar in my pocket has gone down... and down... and down. 

-More secure?  How much of Bitcoin's market cap was lost to theft/hacks/scams?  Start with Mt.Gox.
Bitcoin user has absolutely no recourse when his coin magically vanishes--due to his stupidity or maleficence of others.
CC, on the other hand, offers real buyer protection.
So much for "secure."

How much was lost in bank robberies this year? Are dollars safe?
If people are not safe with money, someone will take it. Is that your point? If so I agree.
Credit cards offer insurance, which is paid for by you and the retailer. That is not protection. Hell I could buy insurance for bitcoin.

Regardless of how CCs accomplish security & how much it costs, this security both exists and is superior to that offered by BTC, which is none.  Existent security is what you're attempting to address.
But I'll humor you:
If you buy insurance for Bitcoin, odds are ~95% that you are being ripped off, see:  all the "insured" Pirate@40 passthroughs.
Further, your argument is absurd on its face:  For insurance to be meaningful, there must be a trusted third party--the very thing Bitcoin was created to avoid.

Again, apples to apples.  For bitcoin itself, there were no thefts, hacks or scams.  Some businesses and users in the bitcoin world ripped off people - exactly the same way some businesses using dollars or CCs ripped off users.  CC numbers are ROUTINELY stolen, and money - well, governments are still trying to come up with a way to make it counterfeit-proof.   So the medium is MUCH safer.  With Bitcoin, use a multi-signature wallet and most of those other problems go away.  Except for user stupidity - nothing there unique to Bitcoin. 

The biggest problem Bitcoin has right now is that it is still difficult for most people to use.  I will grant that.  No different than many other new technologies.

So, is it faster, cheaper and more secure? 
Faster - yes. 
Cheaper?  To merchants, yes, and to everyone else, at the end of the day, yes (though most people won't realize it is saving them money since it's happening behind the scenes). 
More secure?  Technologically - absolutely.   

[NotLambchop]

... Bitcoin is the single greatest development in payments since the credit card. There is nothing faster, cheaper, or more secure. ...

I'm tired of hearing the same tripe regurgitated.

-Bitcoin is tremendously slow.  You aren't new to this, I'm sure you know how long six confirms take.  
A CC transaction takes seconds.
So much for "fast."

I don't think you understand how credit cards work. It takes 2-30 days for a credit card to clear, sometimes longer. The retailer receives a promise to pay immediately, but no money. Like checks and the like, identity must be confirmed and that takes at least days. Oh, and because sometimes the identity is fake, you must pay to subsidize the criminals who use the cards also. You don't think that insurance is free do you?

As a consumer, I do not have to wait more than a few seconds to transact via CC.  The rest of your reply has nothing to do with speed--the point being addressed--and thus irrelevant.

Compare apples to apples.  Transactions appear (unconfirmed) almost instantly.  Every time I have made a purchase using bitcoin it goes through virtually instantly - and I can happily go on my way.  Confirmations, OTOH, could take up to an hour on average.  So instant=instant (consumer), 1 hr=/=2-30 days (merchant).

You must have been using a payment processor like OKCoin or Coinbase, that's why.  The "CC have hidden fees & 1 hr=/=2-30 days (merchant)" argument applies in this case.

-A CC transaction costs the consumer zilch.  I also get to flyer miles as perks.  The argument "the CC fee is already a part of the price" is valid, but opens Bitcoin to an identical one--the miners are compensated for processing transactions with block rewards, currently over 10% BTC market cap per year.
So much for "cheap."

MasterCard did not get rich writing checks, they charge you for using their services. And man are they rich. Where did that money come from? Well the retailer has to pay 3%, and that is passed to you, of course. They also make huge money from interest and a million hidden fees. No thanks. I will control my own money and pay only a fee to the miners. That's fine with me as the price is silly low and they are doing something for me.

Again, as a consumer, I don't care how much credit card companies make--using CC costs me nothing.  Re. "hidden fees":  Kindly review what you are responding to, the point was addressed.

Yes, there is minimal cost to consumer for BTC, vs no noticeable cost for a CC.  However, there are MANY small businesses that do not (want) to take credit cards due to high fees.  

Since you went all-caps on the word "MANY," I feel I should address this first:  Did you know that there are MANY companies, both large and small, that do not accept BTC?
Well, now you know.

They will either encourage you to pay with cash, or simply not accept it for small transaction amounts.  So, you are left with cash as the only alternative.  Great, if you have it.  But you know what?  I can always access my bitcoin wallet on my smartphone.  And I don't wind up with a heavy pile of coins for change.

If you're doing cash transactions and get a heavy pile of change, I can only assume you're not shopping online.  There are no brick & mortar Bitcoin retailers anywhere near where I live, which sort'a wipes out the convenience of using my smartphone

Oh, and that 10% "inflation" that you are referring to, is constantly getting smaller.  Funny how the purchasing power of BTC has gone up over time (with few exceptions), while the value of a dollar in my pocket has gone down... and down... and down.

That's what the dollar is meant to do.  Learn basic economics.  To compensate for inflation, salaries also go up even faster.

-More secure?  How much of Bitcoin's market cap was lost to theft/hacks/scams?  Start with Mt.Gox.
Bitcoin user has absolutely no recourse when his coin magically vanishes--due to his stupidity or maleficence of others.
CC, on the other hand, offers real buyer protection.
So much for "secure."

How much was lost in bank robberies this year? Are dollars safe?
If people are not safe with money, someone will take it. Is that your point? If so I agree.
Credit cards offer insurance, which is paid for by you and the retailer. That is not protection. Hell I could buy insurance for bitcoin.

Regardless of how CCs accomplish security & how much it costs, this security both exists and is superior to that offered by BTC, which is none.  Existent security is what you're attempting to address.
But I'll humor you:
If you buy insurance for Bitcoin, odds are ~95% that you are being ripped off, see:  all the "insured" Pirate@40 passthroughs.
Further, your argument is absurd on its face:  For insurance to be meaningful, there must be a trusted third party--the very thing Bitcoin was created to avoid.

Again, apples to apples.  For bitcoin itself, there were no thefts, hacks or scams.  Some businesses and users in the bitcoin world ripped off people - exactly the same way some businesses using dollars or CCs ripped off users.  CC numbers are ROUTINELY stolen, and money - well, governments are still trying to come up with a way to make it counterfeit-proof.   So the medium is MUCH safer...

Yes, CC #s get stolen, and even when it's clearly your fault, the credit card company reimburses you for your loss.  That's what "security" means.
Arguing that "the technology itself is secure" is meaningless--we're talking about IRL scenarios, not an idealized situation where the user does everything right, is vigilant and well-versed in security procedures, and never makes a mistake.
CC protect you regardless of the human factor involved.

Bitcoin has lost a significant percentage of total coins mined to theft & hacks.  The users also have no recourse if they get ripped off, unless they run to the nanny state they bitch about so often & said nanny state chooses to help the hapless ungrateful goofs.

[NotLambchop]

Regarding paying with Bitcoin, merchant adoption etc., etc, let's look at reality.
Dell is the hobbyhorse that often gets trotted out when merchant adoption is brought up.  Let's check what actually happens & how instantaneous it is:

Paying with Bitcoin

Provided by Coinbase.
The option to complete your transaction in Bitcoin is provided by Coinbase. Dell does not guarantee and is not responsible for the availability of Coinbase’s services. To complete your transaction via Coinbase, you will be re-directed to Coinbase’s website, where you will see the total cost of your transaction in Bitcoin, based on an exchange rate set by Coinbase. The Bitcoin price for your transaction will remain valid for 10 minutes. If you do not initiate a payment during this time, the Bitcoin exchange rate will be updated and the Bitcoin price for your transaction may change.
...
Bitcoin transactions can’t be changed or canceled.
Due to the nature of the Bitcoin network, once you initiate a Bitcoin transaction you cannot change or cancel it; you may seek a refund pursuant to the refund processes described below.

Transactions verified by Bitcoin network.
Once a Bitcoin transaction is submitted to the Bitcoin network, it may take an hour or longer for the Bitcoin network to fully verify the transaction. A transaction is not complete until it is fully verified. Dell has no control over this timeframe imposed by the Bitcoin network.

Taken from http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/campaigns/bitcoin-terms-and-conditions

[spazzdla]

Regarding paying with Bitcoin, merchant adoption etc., etc, let's look at reality.
Dell is the hobbyhorse that often gets trotted out when merchant adoption is brought up.  Let's check what actually happens & how instantaneous it is:

Paying with Bitcoin

Provided by Coinbase.
The option to complete your transaction in Bitcoin is provided by Coinbase. Dell does not guarantee and is not responsible for the availability of Coinbase’s services. To complete your transaction via Coinbase, you will be re-directed to Coinbase’s website, where you will see the total cost of your transaction in Bitcoin, based on an exchange rate set by Coinbase. The Bitcoin price for your transaction will remain valid for 10 minutes. If you do not initiate a payment during this time, the Bitcoin exchange rate will be updated and the Bitcoin price for your transaction may change.
...
Bitcoin transactions can’t be changed or canceled.
Due to the nature of the Bitcoin network, once you initiate a Bitcoin transaction you cannot change or cancel it; you may seek a refund pursuant to the refund processes described below.

Transactions verified by Bitcoin network.
Once a Bitcoin transaction is submitted to the Bitcoin network, it may take an hour or longer for the Bitcoin network to fully verify the transaction. A transaction is not complete until it is fully verified. Dell has no control over this timeframe imposed by the Bitcoin network.

Taken from http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/campaigns/bitcoin-terms-and-conditions

Is this suppose to be a bear statment?  You mean they cannot call bitcoin and demand they steal the bitcoin from my account and put it into theirs because they feel what they bought did not meat their standards?!?!?!?!

[NotLambchop]

...
Is this suppose to be a bear statment?  You mean they cannot call bitcoin and demand they steal the bitcoin from my account and put it into theirs because they feel what they bought did not meat their standards?!?!?!?!

No.
It is supposed to show that Bitcoin transactions are slow & that merchant who accept Bitcoin actually accept fiat.
If there's something else you don't understand, don't hesitate to ask.

[hacknoid]

As a consumer, I do not have to wait more than a few seconds to transact via CC.  The rest of your reply has nothing to do with speed--the point being addressed--and thus irrelevant.

Compare apples to apples.  Transactions appear (unconfirmed) almost instantly.  Every time I have made a purchase using bitcoin it goes through virtually instantly - and I can happily go on my way.  Confirmations, OTOH, could take up to an hour on average.  So instant=instant (consumer), 1 hr=/=2-30 days (merchant).

You must have been using a payment processor like OKCoin or Coinbase, that's why.  The "CC have hidden fees & 1 hr=/=2-30 days (merchant)" argument applies in this case.

Again, apples to apples.  Yes, the merchants I have purchased from have used a processor (BitPay in fact, is what I remember).  Which is why, as I said, the transaction for me, the consumer, was instantaneous.  It was an online transaction, so the moment it went through I was free to go on with my day.  Which is why I used it to illustrate it was just as fast for the customer as a CC online.  Oh, and the 'verified by visa' crap my wife had to deal with took significantly longer, since we had to enrol in the program at that moment.  And in future times it is yet one more password to have to remember.

I have not had the pleasure of using bitcoin directly with a merchant to their wallet (by when the processors only charge them a 1% (or no) fee, why would they bother?  The can still get bitcoin into their wallet at the end of the day...).  But regardless, the transaction will show up immediately in the p2p network.

Yes, there is minimal cost to consumer for BTC, vs no noticeable cost for a CC.  However, there are MANY small businesses that do not (want) to take credit cards due to high fees.  

Since you went all-caps on the word "MANY," I feel I should address this first:  Did you know that there are MANY companies, both large and small, that do not accept BTC?
Well, now you know.

Yes I am well aware.  The number that do is increasing every day.   This is just one example of it following the same trend that websites did.  For the longest time, back in the 90s and early 2000s many companies had no websites, and personally I found it a pain then when I couldn't go online to find out more information.  Similar now to how I wish the small companies (and many big ones) would accept bitcoin at the checkout counter, so I could use it more.  My point is that many want to, and either don't know about it, don't understand it, or don't have access to the knowledge currently required to accept it.  But, that will change.  And this will affect the convenience factor.  For the merchant, it will be a bonus.  And if they have their coin processed through a processor for a minimal fee, then they can remove some of those steps.  Again, this will be very convenient for me, much more so than cash.

They will either encourage you to pay with cash, or simply not accept it for small transaction amounts.  So, you are left with cash as the only alternative.  Great, if you have it.  But you know what?  I can always access my bitcoin wallet on my smartphone.  And I don't wind up with a heavy pile of coins for change.

If you're doing cash transactions and get a heavy pile of change, I can only assume you're not shopping online.  There are no brick & mortar retailers anywhere near where I live, which sort'a wipes out the convenience of using my smartphone

And there are none near me right now, either.  Hopefully that will change.  I personally can't wait for the day.  Electronic cash is certainly easier than physical cash, and using bitcoin would be cheaper than using Interac debit, which would cost me about $0.30 for small purchases (again, if retailers would do it at all).  Many need at least a $5 minimum transaction in order to accept Interac.

Oh, and that 10% "inflation" that you are referring to, is constantly getting smaller.  Funny how the purchasing power of BTC has gone up over time (with few exceptions), while the value of a dollar in my pocket has gone down... and down... and down.

That's what the dollar is meant to do.  Learn basic economics.  To compensate for inflation, salaries also go up even faster.

I understand that.   I don't believe inflation is required, however, since not all salaries go up to match inflation.  In fact, mine has not kept up with inflation for at least the past 6 years.

Again, apples to apples.  For bitcoin itself, there were no thefts, hacks or scams.  Some businesses and users in the bitcoin world ripped off people - exactly the same way some businesses using dollars or CCs ripped off users.  CC numbers are ROUTINELY stolen, and money - well, governments are still trying to come up with a way to make it counterfeit-proof.   So the medium is MUCH safer...

Yes, CC #s get stolen, and even when it's clearly your fault, the credit card company reimburses you for your loss.  That's what "security" means.
Arguing that "the technology itself is secure" is meaningless--we're talking about IRL scenarios, not an idealized situation where the user does everything right, is vigilant and well-versed in security procedures, and never makes a mistake.
CC protect you regardless of the human factor involved.

Bitcoin has lost a significant percentage of total coins mined to theft & hacks.  The users also have no recourse if they get ripped off, unless they run to the nanny state they bitch about so often & said nanny state chooses to help the hapless ungrateful goofs.

The security of the technology IS important - if it were possible for someone to easily steal or counterfeit bitcoins that would be a big deal - but they can't.  And many experts have tried.  So it's important to realize that the weak point is not the technology, but the human factor.  And no more so than with other forms of digital payment.

So if you are careful with your bitcoins and treat them as securely as you would a handful of cash, then you shouldn't have a problem.  You won't have to worry about someone stealing the credit card database from a large retailer and then you having to replace your card.  Sure the CC company will cover the fraudulent transactions, but its still a pain in the butt.  Especially if you happen to be travelling and charging stuff on your CC when it gets denied.  Ever have that happen?  That's certainly not convenient.

There is no recourse if someone steals your coins, just as there is no recourse if someone steals your cash.  Which is why I say compare apples to apples.  Theft of electronic cash is the same as theft of physical cash - if you can catch the thieves they can be charged, but whether you get any cash back in your pocket at the end of the day is questionable at best.  If a company rips you off then again the company could be sued.

[rpietila]

Bitcoin is a long option to a better world with infinite maturity and zero time value.

If a better world comes, it will be so valuable.
If a worse world comes instead, I think it will also be very valuable 

I am holding.

What happened to Monero?

I don't think it is the subject of this thread, but:

- Monero is a leveraged bet on Bitcoin, and
- A hedge on Bitcoin.

It is not prudent to invest a large part of your wealth in Monero, because the probability that it will completely fail next year is at least 25%. The probability that Bitcoin will not see 2016 is at max 5%. Monero has much better +EV though.

[Bobsurplus]

Ohh we're still here.. Us permabulls have just been quiet counting our btc.

[sgbett]

... Bitcoin is the single greatest development in payments since the credit card. There is nothing faster, cheaper, or more secure. ...

I'm tired of hearing the same tripe regurgitated.

-Bitcoin is tremendously slow.  You aren't new to this, I'm sure you know how long six confirms take.  
A CC transaction takes seconds.
So much for "fast."

You are obviously new to the fact you don't *need* six confirms.

-A CC transaction costs the consumer zilch.  I also get to flyer miles as perks.  The argument "the CC fee is already a part of the price" is valid, but opens Bitcoin to an identical one--the miners are compensated for processing transactions with block rewards, currently over 10% BTC market cap per year.
So much for "cheap."

The cost to the consumer is only one half of 'cheap'.

-More secure?  How much of Bitcoin's market cap was lost to theft/hacks/scams?  Start with Mt.Gox.
Bitcoin user has absolutely no recourse when his coin magically vanishes--due to his stupidity or maleficence of others.
CC, on the other hand, offers real buyer protection.
So much for "secure."

PEBKAC. *Bitcoin* is secure.

if you are going to call someone out for posting 'tripe' you ought to be a bit more convincing in your rebuttal.

[NotLambchop]

... Yes, the merchants I have purchased from have used a processor (BitPay in fact, is what I remember).  Which is why, as I said, the transaction for me, the consumer, was instantaneous.  It was an online transaction, so the moment it went through I was free to go on with my day.

If you used a payment processor, you did not buy with Bitcoin.  What you did was find the most convoluted way of buying with fiat, something Rube Goldberg would be proud of.
It goes something like this:

Buy BTC with fiat, possibly pay fee.
Send BTC to the payment provider, who will
convert it to fiat & pay the merchant.

Such convenient.  Wow.

Since you went all-caps on the word "MANY," I feel I should address this first:  Did you know that there are MANY companies, both large and small, that do not accept BTC?
Well, now you know.

Yes I am well aware.  The number that do is increasing every day.   This is just one example of it following the same trend that websites did. <snip the BTC is like interwebs bull>

Regardless of what you believe will happen in the future, we're not talking about one of the possible ways for the probability wave to collapse.  We're talking now.
Now the number of merchants accepting BTC is nowhere near those accepting CC.

...I don't believe inflation is required, however, since not all salaries go up to match inflation.  In fact, mine has not kept up with inflation for at least the past 6 years.

No, not all salaries keep up with inflation, because not communism.  Since yours hasn't, I suggest you get good.

...
The security of the technology IS important - if it were possible for someone to easily steal or counterfeit bitcoins that would be a big deal - but they can't.  And many experts have tried.  So it's important to realize that the weak point is not the technology, but the human factor.  And no more so than with other forms of digital payment.

So if you are careful with your bitcoins and treat them as securely as you would a handful of cash, then you shouldn't have a problem.  You won't have to worry about someone stealing the credit card database from a large retailer and then you having to replace your card.  Sure the CC company will cover the fraudulent transactions, but its still a pain in the butt.  Especially if you happen to be travelling and charging stuff on your CC when it gets denied.  Ever have that happen?  That's certainly not convenient.

So someone hacking into a server to get CC #s is the fault of CC technology?  Not a flaw in the overly technology or a lapse of security?  OK, but the consumer nonetheless doesn't lose his money, unlike the endless list of Bitcoin "hacks" from TF to Ukyo to Mt.Gox etc., etc., etc.

If you feel the inconvenience of dealing with the CC company is no worse than having all your money disappeared, I got nothing.

There is no recourse if someone steals your coins, just as there is no recourse if someone steals your cash.

If you keep all of your money in cash, you're doing it wrong.  You probably keep all your coin in an online wallet with a freshly-registered domain & no ssl, amirite?

Get yourself a few CC and live like a twenty-first century human being

[NotLambchop]

...
You are obviously new to the fact you don't *need* six confirms.

You do if you don't want to get screwed.  If Coinbase wants six, so do I
Edit:

Regarding paying with Bitcoin, merchant adoption etc., etc, let's look at reality.
Dell is the hobbyhorse that often gets trotted out when merchant adoption is brought up.  Let's check what actually happens & how instantaneous it is:
...
Transactions verified by Bitcoin network.
Once a Bitcoin transaction is submitted to the Bitcoin network, it may take an hour or longer for the Bitcoin network to fully verify the transaction. A transaction is not complete until it is fully verified. Dell has no control over this timeframe imposed by the Bitcoin network.

Taken from http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/campaigns/bitcoin-terms-and-conditions

The cost to the consumer is only one half of 'cheap'.

If you're going to reply to a post, have the decency to read through the thread to check if the issue was previously addressed.  It has, and though the bleeding heart liberal in me insist that I cater to the least of men, the pragmatist in me insists that I not bother.
If you still have questions after reading the thread several times, I'll apologise to my pragmatic half & explain shit to you.