Why I invested in bitcoin

[LordSonjai]

We all know the potential behind bitcoin but most of us,some now willing to admit it. Are here to make money,the American dream.
I believe bitcoin will create new winners,and new losers. Society is advancing,I could elaborate on how we are still stuck in our barbaric human ways but that is a story for another time. Although their is indeed a mystery behind bitcoin that could leave many of us broken,I feel as if I should take any opportunity I can if it can assure me and my family a better future. I don't want to be one of the people that share stories to their children or grandchildren about the time I could of been a millionaire.

This life will be over before I know it,time goes by fast,which once again points me into towards my opening point that society is advancing. I am sure people never would of imagined we would be driving cars,a lot of people were absolutely fine going 25 miles per hour on a camels back.

Anyway,not going to elaborate on the risk of bitcoin. Because ultimately I don't know the risk. I don't know where its going,Don't know where it even came from. But one thing is for damn sure,you got to risk it to get the biscuit,and scared money doesn't make money.

Its not just the greed,its not just the money,the money is just half of the pie. The other half,is the fact THAT FIAT IS SHIT! ITS A GOD DAMN LIE.

[finnile]

Anyway,not going to elaborate on the risk of bitcoin. Because ultimately I don't know the risk. I don't know where its going,Don't know where it even came from. But one thing is for damn sure,you got to risk it to get the biscuit,and scared money doesn't make money.

Its not just the greed,its not just the money,the money is just half of the pie. The other half,is the fact THAT FIAT IS SHIT! ITS A GOD DAMN LIE.

Well, scared money doesnt make money s true, but you also have to make wise decisions to invest in bitcoins. Why do you think, a particulat price is good? Why isnt a 100$/bitcoin a strong price as well? Just because FIAT is weak in some areas doesnt mean bitcoin would boom.

[LordSonjai]

Anyway,not going to elaborate on the risk of bitcoin. Because ultimately I don't know the risk. I don't know where its going,Don't know where it even came from. But one thing is for damn sure,you got to risk it to get the biscuit,and scared money doesn't make money.

Its not just the greed,its not just the money,the money is just half of the pie. The other half,is the fact THAT FIAT IS SHIT! ITS A GOD DAMN LIE.

Well, scared money doesnt make money s true, but you also have to make wise decisions to invest in bitcoins. Why do you think, a particulat price is good? Why isnt a 100$/bitcoin a strong price as well? Just because FIAT is weak in some areas doesnt mean bitcoin would boom.

The key thing is knowing when to buy,100$ per coin would be idea or lower,but we may or may not see that happen. Bitcoin is a very interesting topic in terms of where it will go in the future,I don't know,I believe in bitcoin,a lot of power behind it. It gives you power of your money again that the government and banks steal from us. Why couldn't it go boom?

[newIndia]

Anyway,not going to elaborate on the risk of bitcoin. Because ultimately I don't know the risk. I don't know where its going,Don't know where it even came from. But one thing is for damn sure,you got to risk it to get the biscuit,and scared money doesn't make money.

Its not just the greed,its not just the money,the money is just half of the pie. The other half,is the fact THAT FIAT IS SHIT! ITS A GOD DAMN LIE.

Well, scared money doesnt make money s true, but you also have to make wise decisions to invest in bitcoins. Why do you think, a particulat price is good? Why isnt a 100$/bitcoin a strong price as well? Just because FIAT is weak in some areas doesnt mean bitcoin would boom.

The key thing is knowing when to buy,100$ per coin would be idea or lower,but we may or may not see that happen. Bitcoin is a very interesting topic in terms of where it will go in the future,I don't know,I believe in bitcoin,a lot of power behind it. It gives you power of your money again that the government and banks steal from us. Why couldn't it go boom?

The downside of bitcoin trading is u never know which one is the lowest point. From 500 I'm guessing that is the lowest and still buying

[LordSonjai]

Anyway,not going to elaborate on the risk of bitcoin. Because ultimately I don't know the risk. I don't know where its going,Don't know where it even came from. But one thing is for damn sure,you got to risk it to get the biscuit,and scared money doesn't make money.

Its not just the greed,its not just the money,the money is just half of the pie. The other half,is the fact THAT FIAT IS SHIT! ITS A GOD DAMN LIE.

Well, scared money doesnt make money s true, but you also have to make wise decisions to invest in bitcoins. Why do you think, a particulat price is good? Why isnt a 100$/bitcoin a strong price as well? Just because FIAT is weak in some areas doesnt mean bitcoin would boom.

The key thing is knowing when to buy,100$ per coin would be idea or lower,but we may or may not see that happen. Bitcoin is a very interesting topic in terms of where it will go in the future,I don't know,I believe in bitcoin,a lot of power behind it. It gives you power of your money again that the government and banks steal from us. Why couldn't it go boom?

The downside of bitcoin trading is u never know which one is the lowest point. From 500 I'm guessing that is the lowest and still buying


I agree with you I bought some and made some but my last purchase was at 358 so as you can see i am in a poor place right now. I am assuming it is going to dip to 280 and than go back up. But that is a downside for sure,the only one I can think of,that pretty much the volatility in a nut shell.

[mymenace]

Because ultimately I don't know the risk. I don't know where its going,Don't know where it even came from.

Smart investors have risk management, investing in something you do not know is a bad investment.

bitcoin has a lot less risk compared to 12 months ago.

Research your investment so you can promote it and bring in other investors, such as merchants, consumers etc

this reduces your risk as well

[CoinCidental]

Because ultimately I don't know the risk. I don't know where its going,Don't know where it even came from.

Smart investors have risk management, investing in something you do not know is a bad investment.

bitcoin has a lot less risk compared to 12 months ago.

Research your investment so you can promote it and bring in other investors, such as merchants, consumers etc

this reduces your risk as well

none of the early adopters knew and yet they mined and traded ,
some cashed out at 10 ,20 .50 ,100 ,500 ,1000 etc and made a " good return" on their investment without fully knowing where it would go

people  who bought  into google ,ebay ,apple or facebook in the 90s etc probably never knew the returns would be astronomical
because it hadnt been done before

part of invesating in anything new is theres an element of  risk but the rewards can be 100's x times your investment  back

if you cant deal with any risk find a bank or trust  and make 3-8% a year

[bitz-bee.com]

If you'd like more btc for next to nothing and a clear out, sell some pre-loved bits and bobs on here https://www.bitz-bee.com too.

 

[LordSonjai]

Because ultimately I don't know the risk. I don't know where its going,Don't know where it even came from.

Smart investors have risk management, investing in something you do not know is a bad investment.

bitcoin has a lot less risk compared to 12 months ago.

Research your investment so you can promote it and bring in other investors, such as merchants, consumers etc

this reduces your risk as well

thanks for dropping that gem on me but no matter how much I research I will never know where bitcoin is going.

[1Referee]

My first experience with Bitcoin was solely for financial benefit.

After a while I invested some time in getting to know what Bitcoin exactly is and how it works.

I believe in Bitcoin, and also have to admit that I like to make some decent profits.

Nothing wrong with that. At this point there is plenty room for profitable trading.

[dimsky]

Do those that invest in bitcoins also use it in everyday lives? It's one thing to hoard and another to spread its acceptance.

[turvarya]

Anyway,not going to elaborate on the risk of bitcoin. Because ultimately I don't know the risk. I don't know where its going,Don't know where it even came from. But one thing is for damn sure,you got to risk it to get the biscuit,and scared money doesn't make money.

Its not just the greed,its not just the money,the money is just half of the pie. The other half,is the fact THAT FIAT IS SHIT! ITS A GOD DAMN LIE.

Well, scared money doesnt make money s true, but you also have to make wise decisions to invest in bitcoins. Why do you think, a particulat price is good? Why isnt a 100$/bitcoin a strong price as well? Just because FIAT is weak in some areas doesnt mean bitcoin would boom.

I look at it pretty simple.
For all the potential bitcoin has a market cap of $ 4,273,500,416 is not enough.
That gives me confidence, that the price will raise eventually

[Vessko]

The people here clearly do not understand what "investment" is.

Investment is a claim on long-term cash flow from a security. Bitcoin has no cash flow. You cannot "invest" in Bitcoin - or in gold, or in a fiat currency, for that matter. You can save, hoard or speculate in these things - but you cannot invest in them.

If you bought bitcoins because you thought they were going up in price, you were speculating. If you bought them because you thought they were useful technology and the future belongs to them, you've made an expenditure - just like when buying a new computer or an electric car or whatever.

If you are staring at your "paper loss" because Bitcoin is now worth less in some fiat currency than when you bought it, you've just made an unsuccessful speculation. Live with it - speculators do that all the time. If you think that Bitcoin is less useful now than when you bought it (or hasn't served your needs for the time you've owned it), then you've simply made a bad purchase - people do that all the time. If neither is the case, then why would its exchange ratio with fiat currencies matter to you?

[turvarya]

The people here clearly do not understand what "investment" is.

Investment is a claim on long-term cash flow from a security. Bitcoin has no cash flow. You cannot "invest" in Bitcoin - or in gold, or in a fiat currency, for that matter. You can save, hoard or speculate in these things - but you cannot invest in them.

If you bought bitcoins because you thought they were going up in price, you were speculating. If you bought them because you thought they were useful technology and the future belongs to them, you've made an expenditure - just like when buying a new computer or an electric car or whatever.

If you are staring at your "paper loss" because Bitcoin is now worth less in some fiat currency than when you bought it, you've just made an unsuccessful speculation. Live with it - speculators do that all the time. If you think that Bitcoin is less useful now than when you bought it (or hasn't served your needs for the time you've owned it), then you've simply made a bad purchase - people do that all the time. If neither is the case, then why would its exchange ratio with fiat currencies matter to you?

I still see it as an investment, since I invested into something, which with(is that proper english?) I could buy something in the future. It's not a speculation since I don't plan to sell back for fiat.
Comparing it to a computer is a bad example, since computer lose value over time(either because it is used or because there is a better computer coming out).
It is also an investment into companies that use Bitcoin, like when you buy stocks from a company. Sure, you can just use it for speculation, but the company still good money(an investment) from you.

[youngmike]

Bitcoin created new winners a year ago, now it's creating new losers who still on the boat 

[Q7]

For me, it is about technology which I think is what makes bitcoin special. Who would have thought you could have a currency that is supported by the network maintained solely by the community. Nobody can shut it down, nobody can control it (unlike fiat) and that is where the value lies

[swansong]

Because ultimately I don't know the risk. I don't know where its going,Don't know where it even came from.

Smart investors have risk management, investing in something you do not know is a bad investment.

bitcoin has a lot less risk compared to 12 months ago.

Research your investment so you can promote it and bring in other investors, such as merchants, consumers etc

this reduces your risk as well

this.

[Aemon]

When I first heard about Bitcoin, to be honest I wasn't sold at all.  I thought it was much like coins you could purchase in games, worthless.

Man do I wish I could go back in time and slap myself and did some more reading on it.  Too late now, I got in the game though and that is all that matters

[princesocapuyo]

Most of us invest in BTC because we know it will have a great future. In my case I love the technology around it, I believe it's the future. Of course we all want to make profit as well

[Sindelar1938]

I just bought some. I think it's a fabulous long term buying opportunity...

[btckold24]

you gotta risk it to get the biscuit. 

[ChuckBuck]

I invested and am invested in Bitcoin, because I personally know how it is to get screwed over by the existing banking, credit, and financial systems in place.

Whether it be getting declined for a loan with a major bank that I've banked with over a decade even an above average credit rating, or getting tacked on annual fees on my credit cards at a drop of a dime, continuously getting sent new Debit and Credit cards due to being "compromised" or someone trying to steal my identity....just a plethora of reasons.

Once I learned, read, and found out about Bitcoin, the light bulb lit up in my head, "This is the way money should be in this day and age."  No interest rates, No APR's, No ARM's, No chargebacks, no fraudulent charges I have to dispute, no waiting 3-4 days for charges to go through, no credit scores, no ATM fees, no checking and savings fees....

I still have fiat and savings, but the percentage of my investments and net worth is sliding over to BTC at a rapid rate.

[CoinCidental]

I invested and am invested in Bitcoin, because I personally know how it is to get screwed over by the existing banking, credit, and financial systems in place.

Whether it be getting declined for a loan with a major bank that I've banked with over a decade even an above average credit rating, or getting tacked on annual fees on my credit cards at a drop of a dime, continuously getting sent new Debit and Credit cards due to being "compromised" or someone trying to steal my identity....just a plethora of reasons.

Once I learned, read, and found out about Bitcoin, the light bulb lit up in my head, "This is the way money should be in this day and age."  No interest rates, No APR's, No ARM's, No chargebacks, no fraudulent charges I have to dispute, no waiting 3-4 days for charges to go through, no credit scores, no ATM fees, no checking and savings fees....

I still have fiat and savings, but the percentage of my investments and net worth is sliding over to BTC at a rapid rate.

this ^

[Vessko]

I still see it as an investment, since I invested into something, which with(is that proper english?) I could buy something in the future. It's not a speculation since I don't plan to sell back for fiat.

It is still a speculation. You are speculating that the purchasing power would increase.

Comparing it to a computer is a bad example, since computer lose value over time(either because it is used or because there is a better computer coming out).

I assure you that the computer I bought a year ago has depreciated in price significantly less than Bitcoin. Not that it means anything, I am just pointing out that your "but computers depreciate" argument is flawed.

It is also an investment into companies that use Bitcoin, like when you buy stocks from a company.

As I said, people here simply do not understand investment. When you buy US dollars, you are not "investing" in companies that use US dollars. If you want to invest in such companies, you buy their shares on the stock market. When you buy shares in a company, these shares represent your claim on the long-term cash flow from that company. The company either distributes its earnings to the shareholders, in which case you get dividends proportional to the number of shares you own, or the company uses the earnings to develop and grow, in which case you get them in the form of price appreciation of the shares (or a combination thereof). This is investing. You buy part of a public company's future earnings. (Of course, you might just buy the shares hoping to sell them at a higher price and not care one bit what the company does and how much it earns - but that's speculation, not investing.)

[exoton]

I invested and am invested in Bitcoin, because I personally know how it is to get screwed over by the existing banking, credit, and financial systems in place.

Whether it be getting declined for a loan with a major bank that I've banked with over a decade even an above average credit rating, or getting tacked on annual fees on my credit cards at a drop of a dime, continuously getting sent new Debit and Credit cards due to being "compromised" or someone trying to steal my identity....just a plethora of reasons.

Once I learned, read, and found out about Bitcoin, the light bulb lit up in my head, "This is the way money should be in this day and age."  No interest rates, No APR's, No ARM's, No chargebacks, no fraudulent charges I have to dispute, no waiting 3-4 days for charges to go through, no credit scores, no ATM fees, no checking and savings fees....

I still have fiat and savings, but the percentage of my investments and net worth is sliding over to BTC at a rapid rate.

It seems like most of your complaints about the banking system revolve around your inability to get credit. You need to understand that credit is much tighter and much more expensive in the bitcoin economy then via traditional banking.

If you are someone receiving bitcoin from selling things then you will benefit from things like the inability of your customers to initiate a fraudulent charge-back, however you will still need to work with customers to resolve any disputes otherwise your reputation will suffer when your customers take to social media to complain when they send you money but do not receive what they expect

[Daniel91]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

[resya]

I am not an early adopter of bitcoin, I bought few coins from my savings. It used to hurt my head figuring how much I'm down on my original investment, but then I realised I don't care about losing the money all that much, besides i have faith in reward halving 2015

[BigBertie]

Bitcoin created new winners a year ago, now it's creating new losers who still on the boat 

he's young
he's Mike
he talks a load of shite

tulip mania
tulip mania

[Ludi]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

Sadly I think many people don't think like this about bitcoin nowadays and only care about one thing: Profit. With that being said I do also personally see the massive potential for investment in the future, but I can wait.

[youngmike]

Keep believing  Faith gives meaning to life but I like to make money so I don't invest in Bitcoin 

[youngmike]

Bitcoin created new winners a year ago, now it's creating new losers who still on the boat 

he's young
he's Mike
he talks a load of shite

tulip mania
tulip mania

I'm the man with crypto profits made a year ago, you are a newbie account feeding whales 

[ChuckBuck]

I invested and am invested in Bitcoin, because I personally know how it is to get screwed over by the existing banking, credit, and financial systems in place.

Whether it be getting declined for a loan with a major bank that I've banked with over a decade even an above average credit rating, or getting tacked on annual fees on my credit cards at a drop of a dime, continuously getting sent new Debit and Credit cards due to being "compromised" or someone trying to steal my identity....just a plethora of reasons.

Once I learned, read, and found out about Bitcoin, the light bulb lit up in my head, "This is the way money should be in this day and age."  No interest rates, No APR's, No ARM's, No chargebacks, no fraudulent charges I have to dispute, no waiting 3-4 days for charges to go through, no credit scores, no ATM fees, no checking and savings fees....

I still have fiat and savings, but the percentage of my investments and net worth is sliding over to BTC at a rapid rate.

It seems like most of your complaints about the banking system revolve around your inability to get credit. You need to understand that credit is much tighter and much more expensive in the bitcoin economy then via traditional banking.

If you are someone receiving bitcoin from selling things then you will benefit from things like the inability of your customers to initiate a fraudulent charge-back, however you will still need to work with customers to resolve any disputes otherwise your reputation will suffer when your customers take to social media to complain when they send you money but do not receive what they expect

Yes, a flawed banking system that refused to grant me a loan when my wife had major surgery and bills were coming out the wazoo.  I had over $50k invested in this bank through various checking and savings accounts, CD's, traded through this bank, couple of credit cards....yet they declined me in an instant.  Ultimately, I metaphorically told this bank "eat a bag of dicks", and shopped my accounts to another big 3 bank that was willing to give me the breathing room I desperately needed (FUCK YOU BANK OF AMERICA).

I've bought and sold many many things for Bitcoin mostly right here in BitcoinTalk, check my Trust history.

If you know what you're doing, do the do dilligence, understand how trust history/rating and escrow work.  I've actually just bought another physical Bitcoin from a trusted member yesterday in this very forum without as much as a hassle:



It happens to mostly noobish buyers/sellers/traders.  If you know how the system works, there's no real risk.

Overall, from my personal experience, your point is moot.

[exoton]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

Sadly I think many people don't think like this about bitcoin nowadays and only care about one thing: Profit. With that being said I do also personally see the massive potential for investment in the future, but I can wait.

Well to be fair bank loans are one major way that people can achieve financial freedom. For example, most people are not able to purchase a house without some kind of loan from the bank (mortgage) and without this loan they would be susceptible to continuous rent increases by your landlord 

[Daniel91]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

Sadly I think many people don't think like this about bitcoin nowadays and only care about one thing: Profit. With that being said I do also personally see the massive potential for investment in the future, but I can wait.

Well to be fair bank loans are one major way that people can achieve financial freedom. For example, most people are not able to purchase a house without some kind of loan from the bank (mortgage) and without this loan they would be susceptible to continuous rent increases by your landlord 

I don't think so.
Bank loans are very clever way to make you bank's slave, until the end of your life.
This is not the way how to achieve financial freedom, please believe me.
I know this very well from my own experience.
Many people in my country lost job, couldn't repay loan to the banks and lost their homes.

[turvarya]

As I said, people here simply do not understand investment. When you buy US dollars, you are not "investing" in companies that use US dollars. If you want to invest in such companies, you buy their shares on the stock market. When you buy shares in a company, these shares represent your claim on the long-term cash flow from that company. The company either distributes its earnings to the shareholders, in which case you get dividends proportional to the number of shares you own, or the company uses the earnings to develop and grow, in which case you get them in the form of price appreciation of the shares (or a combination thereof). This is investing. You buy part of a public company's future earnings. (Of course, you might just buy the shares hoping to sell them at a higher price and not care one bit what the company does and how much it earns - but that's speculation, not investing.)

When I buy stocks to get dividends, I also speculate that the company will make profit and can pay dividends. When I buy bread, I also speculate, that it won't be already gone bad, when I want to eat it(happened to me, multiple times.
You are just a good example, that the people who call everybody else to dumb to understand such things, just don't know how it works them self.

[krishatnet]

I like your sentence "scared money doesn't make money". No risk no profit more risk more profit. Bitcoin is always in uptrend for longterm.

[BigBertie]

Bitcoin created new winners a year ago, now it's creating new losers who still on the boat 

he's young
he's Mike
he talks a load of shite

tulip mania
tulip mania

I'm the man with crypto profits made a year ago, you are a newbie account feeding whales 

You are the man that is soooo negative.
Do the community a favour.
Take your profit and get out of this forum as nothing you say is worthwhile

[exoton]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

Sadly I think many people don't think like this about bitcoin nowadays and only care about one thing: Profit. With that being said I do also personally see the massive potential for investment in the future, but I can wait.

Well to be fair bank loans are one major way that people can achieve financial freedom. For example, most people are not able to purchase a house without some kind of loan from the bank (mortgage) and without this loan they would be susceptible to continuous rent increases by your landlord 

I don't think so.
Bank loans are very clever way to make you bank's slave, until the end of your life.
This is not the way how to achieve financial freedom, please believe me.
I know this very well from my own experience.
Many people in my country lost job, couldn't repay loan to the banks and lost their homes.

I am not sure what country you live in, but this is the case anywhere. If you do not pay your loan then you will lose whatever collateral you put up. This is the importance of having some level of both job and financial stability before making such a major purchase.

[exoton]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

Sadly I think many people don't think like this about bitcoin nowadays and only care about one thing: Profit. With that being said I do also personally see the massive potential for investment in the future, but I can wait.

Well to be fair bank loans are one major way that people can achieve financial freedom. For example, most people are not able to purchase a house without some kind of loan from the bank (mortgage) and without this loan they would be susceptible to continuous rent increases by your landlord 

I don't think so.
Bank loans are very clever way to make you bank's slave, until the end of your life.
This is not the way how to achieve financial freedom, please believe me.
I know this very well from my own experience.
Many people in my country lost job, couldn't repay loan to the banks and lost their homes.

I am not sure what country you live in, but this is the case anywhere. If you do not pay your loan then you will lose whatever collateral you put up. This is the importance of having some level of both job and financial stability before making such a major purchase.

Some countries give loans without collateral or with half collaterals as well.

This is not country specific, it is lender/bank specific. Generally all banks will give out loans without collateral, using only a person's reputation, assuming they have sufficient income and credit history, however they will be on worse terms (shorter repayment length, higher interest rates and lower amounts) then a loan secured by collateral.

Even when you borrow without collateral, your assets can still be seized by your creditors, it is just more difficult to do so, and the lender needs to share your assets with your other creditors

[Vessko]

When I buy stocks to get dividends, I also speculate that the company will make profit and can pay dividends.

If you are buying them on the principle "oh, gee, this stock seems to pay dividends, let's buy it", then, yes, you are speculating. If, however, you research the company, examine its history of paying dividends (is it a long history? are the payments reliable? do they increase with time?), if you understand its business model - then you are investing.

There is risk associated with investing, of course. But the main difference between speculation and investing is that speculation relies on the immediate observation of something (the word "to speculate" comes from the Latin word "speculare", which means "to observe"; the word "spectacles" has the same origin) and its extrapolation to the near future. Investing, on the other hand, relies on research and understanding and basically on buying a long-term source of cash flow. If you buy a rental property, you are investing, because you are paying for a long-term source of rent - despite the fact that you are running the risk that rents will fall or any other business-related risks. When you are buying a house, hoping to sell it at a higher price, you are speculating. And when you are buying a house to live in, you are making a consumer expenditure. Of course, there can be overlapping between these three activities.

When I buy bread, I also speculate, that it won't be already gone bad, when I want to eat it

When you buy a consumer good, you are making an expenditure. That's not even speculation and is most definitely not investing.

You are just a good example, that the people who call everybody else to dumb to understand such things, just don't know how it works them self.

And you are a good example of how ignorant people tend to react when somebody who knows better than them points out their ignorance.

[sherbyspark]

I invested in bitcoin for the technology it offers, and luckily never invested more than 4-5 BTC at 600. Took a big loss and made some back by day trading wehn the prices were swinging between 300 and 400.

[Ghostface]

I invested in bitcoin for the technology it offers, and luckily never invested more than 4-5 BTC at 600. Took a big loss and made some back by day trading wehn the prices were swinging between 300 and 400.

I also invested because I believe in the technology, but also because I can see the potential future value in it. Give it 2-3 years and then lets see where it's at. Those that don't have patience and got out early may live to regret it.

[bornil267645]

We all caught up in the possibilities of Bitcoin, but the truth is, it may never become possible.

[turvarya]

When I buy stocks to get dividends, I also speculate that the company will make profit and can pay dividends.

If you are buying them on the principle "oh, gee, this stock seems to pay dividends, let's buy it", then, yes, you are speculating. If, however, you research the company, examine its history of paying dividends (is it a long history? are the payments reliable? do they increase with time?), if you understand its business model - then you are investing.

There is risk associated with investing, of course. But the main difference between speculation and investing is that speculation relies on the immediate observation of something (the word "to speculate" comes from the Latin word "speculare", which means "to observe"; the word "spectacles" has the same origin) and its extrapolation to the near future. Investing, on the other hand, relies on research and understanding and basically on buying a long-term source of cash flow. If you buy a rental property, you are investing, because you are paying for a long-term source of rent - despite the fact that you are running the risk that rents will fall or any other business-related risks. When you are buying a house, hoping to sell it at a higher price, you are speculating. And when you are buying a house to live in, you are making a consumer expenditure. Of course, there can be overlapping between these three activities.

When I buy bread, I also speculate, that it won't be already gone bad, when I want to eat it

When you buy a consumer good, you are making an expenditure. That's not even speculation and is most definitely not investing.

You are just a good example, that the people who call everybody else to dumb to understand such things, just don't know how it works them self.

And you are a good example of how ignorant people tend to react when somebody who knows better than them points out their ignorance.

I don't even want to correct you anymore. There is so much wrong about what you just wrote. But sure, you know it better, I am just ignorant.

[caga]

I invested in bitcoin for the technology it offers, and luckily never invested more than 4-5 BTC at 600. Took a big loss and made some back by day trading wehn the prices were swinging between 300 and 400.

I also invested because I believe in the technology, but also because I can see the potential future value in it. Give it 2-3 years and then lets see where it's at. Those that don't have patience and got out early may live to regret it.

I just see more doubts in bitcoin than ever before. This is primarily because of the price drop and a lot of scams happening, with BTC.
I have also seen people quit from BTC for that reason.

[Snipe85]

I invested in bitcoin, because I thought it's developing and should gain value. I don't care if it takes a year or 2 as long as it does. Since then it's been slowly, but surely going down...

[LordSonjai]

I invested in bitcoin, because I thought it's developing and should gain value. I don't care if it takes a year or 2 as long as it does. Since then it's been slowely, but surely going down...

Are you surprised?I knew this would happen. I doubt it will go back down to 45 dollars however. Its gradually going up,not going to buy anymore however I feel like its going to take one more dive at a new low.

[LordSonjai]

I invested in bitcoin, because I thought it's developing and should gain value. I don't care if it takes a year or 2 as long as it does. Since then it's been slowely, but surely going down...

Are you surprised?I knew this would happen. I doubt it will go back down to 45 dollars however. Its gradually going up,not going to buy anymore however I feel like its going to take one more dive at a new low.

Its still hard to say that. COuld sway either site. But since the price has dropped, buying has decreased. SO no fast increase or decrease will happen.

they have bitcoin set as a money transferring system can you believe that?

[amacar]

The main reason I invested in bitcoin was because of money. I am young so yes I need money. I have already got my investment back so don't really care about bitcoin price anymore. But of course I still have a few of bitcoins just in case it will go up again and we would be all happy  

[botany]

The main reason I invested in bitcoin was because of money. I am young so yes I need money. I have already got my investment back so don't really care about bitcoin price anymore. But of course I still have a few of bitcoins just in case it will go up again and we would be all happy  

Nice strategy.
Getting your investment back ensures that even if bitcoin price goes to zero, you will not feel terrible. 

[LordSonjai]

The main reason I invested in bitcoin was because of money. I am young so yes I need money. I have already got my investment back so don't really care about bitcoin price anymore. But of course I still have a few of bitcoins just in case it will go up again and we would be all happy  

Nice strategy.
Getting your investment back ensures that even if bitcoin price goes to zero, you will not feel terrible. 

YOU SOUND LIKE A PLAYER HATER,JS  SAYIN...

THE ODDS OF BITCOIN GOING TO 0 ARE HIGHY UNLIKELY.

[Possum577]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

Do you think your financial freedom will come if/when banks are gone?

The only way for you to achieve financial freedom is for you to break free of debt, make more money, and use that money to make you even more money.

[Possum577]

The main reason I invested in bitcoin was because of money. I am young so yes I need money. I have already got my investment back so don't really care about bitcoin price anymore. But of course I still have a few of bitcoins just in case it will go up again and we would be all happy  

Nice strategy.
Getting your investment back ensures that even if bitcoin price goes to zero, you will not feel terrible. 

YOU SOUND LIKE A PLAYER HATER,JS  SAYIN...

THE ODDS OF BITCOIN GOING TO 0 ARE HIGHY UNLIKELY.

Why do you say "highly unlikely"? I'd love to hear your thoughts, facts, and analysis on this opinion.

[bornil267645]

I am investing now so that more and more bitcoin are in the mainstream and it can be established.

[malaimult]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

Do you think your financial freedom will come if/when banks are gone?

The only way for you to achieve financial freedom is for you to break free of debt, make more money, and use that money to make you even more money.

Bingo. There is a reason why the poor tend to stay poor and the rich tend to get more money. The rich are able to invest their money and get returns that exceed inflation while the poor tend to stay in debt with interest payments that exceed inflation

[LordSonjai]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

Do you think your financial freedom will come if/when banks are gone?

The only way for you to achieve financial freedom is for you to break free of debt, make more money, and use that money to make you even more money.

Bingo. There is a reason why the poor tend to stay poor and the rich tend to get more money. The rich are able to invest their money and get returns that exceed inflation while the poor tend to stay in debt with interest payments that exceed inflation

wait i am confused with your analogy the banks are what make us poor.

[botany]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

Do you think your financial freedom will come if/when banks are gone?

The only way for you to achieve financial freedom is for you to break free of debt, make more money, and use that money to make you even more money.

Bingo. There is a reason why the poor tend to stay poor and the rich tend to get more money. The rich are able to invest their money and get returns that exceed inflation while the poor tend to stay in debt with interest payments that exceed inflation

The government through taxes tries to reduce this.

[hobala]

im invest in bitcoin because i know bitcoin is the future currency

[malaimult]

I invest in bitcoin simple because I believe in this idea and vision behind bitcoin.
I really hope to get rid of banks, bank's loans etc, and achieve financial freedom and right now I think just bitcoin have the potential to help me achieve this.
Also, as early adopter, I really hope that this investment will help me later financially

Do you think your financial freedom will come if/when banks are gone?

The only way for you to achieve financial freedom is for you to break free of debt, make more money, and use that money to make you even more money.

Bingo. There is a reason why the poor tend to stay poor and the rich tend to get more money. The rich are able to invest their money and get returns that exceed inflation while the poor tend to stay in debt with interest payments that exceed inflation

The government through taxes tries to reduce this.

The liberals try to reduce income inequality via taxes/transfer payments, however they are often ineffective (more or less always ineffective). If you want your citizens to prosper you need to create economic opportunities

[amytat]

Because bitcoin is currency of future , it's connecting with more places on the world , so you can buy/sell/exchange with everyone . So i think bitcoin is good currency which we should invest

[BitcoinFreak12]

Bitcoin price i think just stabilized, i think i`ll buy some next week, after the X-mas herd has left (because now at X-as you can see many people converting BTC back to fiat to buy presents).

[LordSonjai]

Bitcoin price i think just stabilized, i think i`ll buy some next week, after the X-mas herd has left (because now at X-as you can see many people converting BTC back to fiat to buy presents).

because obviously they haven't heard of the internet.

[BitcoinFreak12]

Bitcoin price i think just stabilized, i think i`ll buy some next week, after the X-mas herd has left (because now at X-as you can see many people converting BTC back to fiat to buy presents).

because obviously they haven't heard of the internet.

I dont understand what you mean by that, please explain.

[LordSonjai]

Bitcoin price i think just stabilized, i think i`ll buy some next week, after the X-mas herd has left (because now at X-as you can see many people converting BTC back to fiat to buy presents).

because obviously they haven't heard of the internet.

I dont understand what you mean by that, please explain.

You can buy gifts with bitcoin if you use the internet.

[mercistheman]

Always thought of a $300 bill as a good thing 

[BitcoinFreak12]

Bitcoin price i think just stabilized, i think i`ll buy some next week, after the X-mas herd has left (because now at X-as you can see many people converting BTC back to fiat to buy presents).

because obviously they haven't heard of the internet.

I dont understand what you mean by that, please explain.

You can buy gifts with bitcoin if you use the internet.

Yes, but not in many countries, and also i think until bitcoin gets more mainstream, people will just use conventional shopping. Not even many people use internet shopping, let alone bitcoin internet shopping.

We need to wait 6-7 more years until people will buy on the internet with bitcoin.

So probably on other holidays aswell the price will fall, for now.

[LordSonjai]

Bitcoin price i think just stabilized, i think i`ll buy some next week, after the X-mas herd has left (because now at X-as you can see many people converting BTC back to fiat to buy presents).

because obviously they haven't heard of the internet.

I dont understand what you mean by that, please explain.

You can buy gifts with bitcoin if you use the internet.

Yes, but not in many countries, and also i think until bitcoin gets more mainstream, people will just use conventional shopping. Not even many people use internet shopping, let alone bitcoin internet shopping.

We need to wait 6-7 more years until people will buy on the internet with bitcoin.

So probably on other holidays aswell the price will fall, for now.

6-7 is a little steep.

[BIT-Sharon]

Fiat is not always strong and it just represents the face value. However, Bitcoin has its own value, it is directly connected with the mining things, it can be invested just because of its own value. Fiat is restricted by national policy, economic policy and political policy and so on. 

[Vessko]

Fiat is not always strong and it just represents the face value.

The value of fiat comes from the ability of governments to tax their subjects. People produce goods and services, which are generally considered valuable by the society. The government appropriates some of the produced value via taxes and has the force to coerce people to part with this value.

However, Bitcoin has its own value,

No, it doesn't. Nothing does. Value is not an intrinsic property of anything. It is always subjective, in the eye of the beholder. Bitcoin is valuable because there are people who find it valuable - nothing more, nothing less. If these people disappear (or change their opinion), Bitcoin will become worthless, despite the fact that its properties won't change at all.

it is directly connected with the mining things

No, it is not. This is Marx's labor theory of value, which was proven wrong almost a century ago. The price of electricity needed to mine 1 BTC has increased much less than the price of 1 BTC for the past few years. The price of Bitcoin has plummeted this year, despite the fact that the cost of mining it hasn't decreased.

Value is determined by the personal, subjective preferences of the people who are valuing something - not by any intrinsic properties of that thing.

Fiat is restricted by national policy, economic policy and political policy and so on.

It is not "restricted" by these things; it is impacted by them. Bitcoin is similarly impacted by many things. If all countries make it illegal tomorrow, its price will plummet because only criminals will be willing to use it. If all countries decide to base their money transfer operations on it tomorrow, its price will skyrocket because lots of institutions will have to buy it.

[zebedee]

There is a reason why the poor tend to stay poor and the rich tend to get more money. The rich are able to invest their money and get returns that exceed inflation while the poor tend to stay in debt with interest payments that exceed inflation

The government through taxes tries to reduce this.

Lulz.  Things statists say.

[BitcoinFreak12]

There is a reason why the poor tend to stay poor and the rich tend to get more money. The rich are able to invest their money and get returns that exceed inflation while the poor tend to stay in debt with interest payments that exceed inflation

The government through taxes tries to reduce this.

Lulz.  Things statists say.

Actually they do, but most of it goes into the pockets of politicians.

Then the majority of the tax burden is on the worker class.

Rich people will flee with their money , to less taxed places. Then the workers will get taxed more to cover the deficit.

And then the workers will get just as broke and in-debt as the poor strata.

So in the end everyone will be poor, equal and poor, equal in poverty. Socialism in a nutshell

[Kprawn]

And the little mice, run round and round, in the little treadmill and they stay in one place.

Now connect a little dynamo to the treadmill and the pet owner get some FREE electricity. I think Bitcoin is the door to the cage, it gives us the opportunity, to climb out of the treadmill. 

And that is why, I invested in the technology and the currency.   

[Gyfts]

It's been about a year since I've been saving after the big crash that happened a year and months ago. So far to be honest nothing has changed. Of course you'll have to wait it out but I expected greater change after a years time.

[LordSonjai]

And the little mice, run round and round, in the little treadmill and they stay in one place.

Now connect a little dynamo to the treadmill and the pet owner get some FREE electricity. I think Bitcoin is the door to the cage, it gives us the opportunity, to climb out of the treadmill. 

And that is why, I invested in the technology and the currency.   

wow bravo,
yes this should make us the winners of this generation if we do. And it pans out as planned.

[Vessko]

Actually they do, but most of it goes into the pockets of politicians.

Actually, most of it goes into the pockets of their rich campaign contributors. The wealth appropriation by the politicians (directly) is pretty much insignificant compared to the wealth appropriation by their well-connected cronies.

In fact, taxes play a relatively minor role in this. Economically (i.e., all political implications aside), a developed country could simply stop taxing the population and print all the money its government wants to spend (waste). Yes, inflation would increase, but not outrageously so (because the taxes are just a small amount of money compared to the amount of money already printed by the banks) and the productivity would increase, since private businesses would be less burdened by taxes.

Then the majority of the tax burden is on the worker class.

It depends on the definition of the word "burden". The vast majority of the taxes is paid by the rich people - especially in a progressive tax regime (i.e., not a flat tax equal for everyone but a taxation rate that increases with increased income). On the other hand, poor people spend a larger percentage of their disposable income on essentials (such as food), so one and the same percentage of income reduction is more burdensome to them than to a rich person.

Then the workers will get taxed more to cover the deficit.

No, because the workers vote (well, at least in a democracy they do), so increasing the tax burden on them is not politically expedient. A much better solution (from the point of view of the politicians) is to run deficits forever and just have the central bank print the money needed. Extracting wealth from the population via inflation is much easier than via taxation.

So in the end everyone will be poor, equal and poor, equal in poverty. Socialism in a nutshell

I've lived under a socialist regime for decades. I can assure you that not everyone was poor and equal. A small but not insignificant number of people enjoyed riches and power not attainable by the rest of the population.

[s1ng]

because I believe bitcoin can be better than US$

We can see how much the eforia has been made because of bitcoin fever.

Just trust this currency, and it will raise to the star without being notice 

[BitcoinFreak12]

because I believe bitcoin can be better than US$

We can see how much the eforia has been made because of bitcoin fever.

Just trust this currency, and it will raise to the star without being notice 

I agree completely, but we need to spread the world, invite your friends , aquantances, everyone.

I think everyone should own atleast 1000$ worth of bitcoins, and then the price would skyrocket, what do you think?

[LordSonjai]

because I believe bitcoin can be better than US$

We can see how much the eforia has been made because of bitcoin fever.

Just trust this currency, and it will raise to the star without being notice 

I agree completely, but we need to spread the world, invite your friends , aquantances, everyone.

I think everyone should own atleast 1000$ worth of bitcoins, and then the price would skyrocket, what do you think?

i think I don't know what to think anymore.

[botany]

There is a reason why the poor tend to stay poor and the rich tend to get more money. The rich are able to invest their money and get returns that exceed inflation while the poor tend to stay in debt with interest payments that exceed inflation

The government through taxes tries to reduce this.

Lulz.  Things statists say.

Actually they do, but most of it goes into the pockets of politicians.

Then the majority of the tax burden is on the worker class.

Rich people will flee with their money , to less taxed places. Then the workers will get taxed more to cover the deficit.

And then the workers will get just as broke and in-debt as the poor strata.

So in the end everyone will be poor, equal and poor, equal in poverty. Socialism in a nutshell

In an ideal world, tax money would be used to remove income inequality.
In some countries, corruption is a chronic problem. In others, there is still hope. 

[LordSonjai]

There is a reason why the poor tend to stay poor and the rich tend to get more money. The rich are able to invest their money and get returns that exceed inflation while the poor tend to stay in debt with interest payments that exceed inflation

The government through taxes tries to reduce this.

Lulz.  Things statists say.

Actually they do, but most of it goes into the pockets of politicians.

Then the majority of the tax burden is on the worker class.

Rich people will flee with their money , to less taxed places. Then the workers will get taxed more to cover the deficit.

And then the workers will get just as broke and in-debt as the poor strata.

So in the end everyone will be poor, equal and poor, equal in poverty. Socialism in a nutshell

In an ideal world, tax money would be used to remove income inequality.
In some countries, corruption is a chronic problem. In others, there is still hope. 

do me a favor and explain income inequality.

[Aemon]

Do you guys think Bitcoins will rebuild themselves here?  It seems rather scary and hard to get people invovled with Bitcoin continually going down for the last year.  Everyone I try to talk to tells me they don't want to get involved because it will crash

[LordSonjai]

Do you guys think Bitcoins will rebuild themselves here?  It seems rather scary and hard to get people invovled with Bitcoin continually going down for the last year.  Everyone I try to talk to tells me they don't want to get involved because it will crash

It already crashed,it crashed probably more times than we can count. I believe its the future. No point in delaying the inevitable. Now,governments may say to hell with bitcoin,ban it and possibly make their own crypto currency. That is my worst nightmare,all this bitcoin gone to SHIT because the USA made a cryto currency and banned bitcoin. Wow what a nightmare. Anyway. What is going to end up happening is bitcoin will make us a lot of profit and once the gravy train is up people are going to want to get in on it but the price will be stabilized pass 1000. So people will instead have to seriously consider it as a currency and stop trying to get on to make a quick buck.

[Aemon]

So you think Bitcoins are dead?  Don't you think a crash would result in such a massive drop so fast that it would be 0 dollars already?  I think its tough to say what happens for the future, I just hope that it rebounds

[Demille]

Do you guys think Bitcoins will rebuild themselves here?  It seems rather scary and hard to get people invovled with Bitcoin continually going down for the last year.  Everyone I try to talk to tells me they don't want to get involved because it will crash

What do you mean rebuild themselves? Tell people not to fixate on the current price but it's potential value in the future. Bitcoin is more than just a currency it's an entire network that many industries and companies can benefit from using.

[Aemon]

What do you mean rebuild themselves? Tell people not to fixate on the current price but it's potential value in the future. Bitcoin is more than just a currency it's an entire network that many industries and companies can benefit from using.

While that is true, Bitcoins will not remain if the Cash value goes down to nothing, we would lose at least 70% of our current users and we would not get any newcomers.

[bitcoiner77]

I've Invested in bitcoin a few different times and for a few different reasons , I do now that only one time I was scammed out of my bitcoins and all other transactions went smoothly and I love it I just wish I could have got into mining them back in the day , I am trying to Get a start-up going here in Canada and acceapt and run my bussines around bitcoin Maybe Somehow i can get funding to start up and buy a few ASIC's to start but I keep reading its failing so it makes it hard for a young fella , To want to get to heavily involved i guess,,.

[darkmind]

I've invested a large portion of my money into bitcoin and been trading half of them since then. But each time I sell btc for fiat I feel like I'm doing the most stupid thing in the universe

[BitcoinFreak12]

I've invested a large portion of my money into bitcoin and been trading half of them since then. But each time I sell btc for fiat I feel like I'm doing the most stupid thing in the universe

Don't

Just trade between altcoins BTC/LTC and others, never exchange it back into fiat, maybe a small amount only if that is your income.

Do good for the community and dont devaluate bitcoins please

[FeelTheBeat]

I've invested a large portion of my money into bitcoin and been trading half of them since then. But each time I sell btc for fiat I feel like I'm doing the most stupid thing in the universe

I feel ya. But it is hard to believe in bitcoin when price is dropping every day.

[BitcoinFreak12]

I've invested a large portion of my money into bitcoin and been trading half of them since then. But each time I sell btc for fiat I feel like I'm doing the most stupid thing in the universe

I feel ya. But it is hard to believe in bitcoin when price is dropping every day.

Just hedge between other crypto's, you can still keep your purchasing power intact and not lose money, but atleast your wealth remains in the crypto world. By exchanging it into fiat money you are comitting treason against the Gods of the Blockchain

It better if the money just flows between 1 crypto and the other, than to flow out and go back to fiat.

[Pierre11]

What do you mean rebuild themselves? Tell people not to fixate on the current price but it's potential value in the future. Bitcoin is more than just a currency it's an entire network that many industries and companies can benefit from using.

While that is true, Bitcoins will not remain if the Cash value goes down to nothing, we would lose at least 70% of our current users and we would not get any newcomers.

Those who truely believe in the currency aspect of bitcoin will remain if bitcoin goes to dollar parity of $1.

It is only then that it will really act as a currency.

[Aemon]

Those who truely believe in the currency aspect of bitcoin will remain if bitcoin goes to dollar parity of $1.

It is only then that it will really act as a currency.

While that is somewhat true, Bitcoin was a $1 at a time.  The thing that was driving it to increase was the amount of people gathering an interest.  I can assure you, a lot of people are here to try and get rich an don't give a hoot about what Bitcoin is or what it can do.  Once the value is no longer worth it, people will leave.

[BitcoinFreak12]

Those who truely believe in the currency aspect of bitcoin will remain if bitcoin goes to dollar parity of $1.

It is only then that it will really act as a currency.

While that is somewhat true, Bitcoin was a $1 at a time.  The thing that was driving it to increase was the amount of people gathering an interest.  I can assure you, a lot of people are here to try and get rich an don't give a hoot about what Bitcoin is or what it can do.  Once the value is no longer worth it, people will leave.

Nope, i think the African people will really drive up the Bitcoin's price.

There are many unfortunate people in africa, with crumbling economy and very inflated toiled paper money, the desperately need a stable currency and a decentralized one, with all that capital control BS that they have.

Yes a westerner might brag about 5% daily volatility of BTC, but i dont think that an African or a South American will brag about it, where they have 20-30 % inflation and huge volatility.

They would embrace anything onther than their own currency, so just spread the word in Africa and South America, and then you might see BTC to the Moon!

I have faith in those people, they really deserve a better currency!

http://siliconangle.com/files/2012/03/africa-bitcoin.png

[FeelTheBeat]

A lot of villages in Africa are without electricity how are they gonna pay with bitcoin 
I think that for at least 5 years bitcoin won't be mainstream in Africa.

[BitcoinFreak12]

A lot of villages in Africa are without electricity how are they gonna pay with bitcoin 
I think that for at least 5 years bitcoin won't be mainstream in Africa.

The way M-pesa worked, the same way bitcoin could.

Yes they dont have electricity and internet but almost everyone has mobile phones. Yes old Ericson R320, you remember that, well i`m pretty sure every african has access to those old phones.

They are not that trendy in the west anymore with all these smart phone BS propaganda, but the old phones are probalby worth 1-2$ and can be easily purchased by any african person.

They use M-pesa and other services from where you pay with your phone.

If there would be a service where you could do the same, but with bitcoin, then it would gain wider popularity amongs africans aswell.

Oh wait, there is: https://www.bitpesa.co/

Check that out, see, they already though about that. Bitcoins will become very popular in africa in the next years.

Of course offline wallets would be the better, but you are right in villager where is no electricity, its hard to operate an offline storage. But its still better than their local government money

[dsly]

A lot of villages in Africa are without electricity how are they gonna pay with bitcoin 
I think that for at least 5 years bitcoin won't be mainstream in Africa.

Along with electricity, don't they also need an internet connection for bitcoin transactions ?

[BitcoinFreak12]

A lot of villages in Africa are without electricity how are they gonna pay with bitcoin 
I think that for at least 5 years bitcoin won't be mainstream in Africa.

Along with electricity, don't they also need an internet connection for bitcoin transactions ?

M-pesa and the succesor Bit-pesa (with bitcoins) work with mobile phone SMS technology.

They dont need neither electricity or internet, and almost all africans already have some form of older mobile phones where they could use Bitpesa.

Read my previous post man.

[Vessko]

Let me see if I got the reasoning right.

1) The value of Bitcoin will be driven to huge new highs because Bitcoin will be embraced by all those millions of poor people in Africa. Who don't have any money to begin with. Yeah, right. They will drive the price of Bitcoin up with their bids. That's the ticket.

2) They don't have any electricity - but they do have mobile phones. Must be some model mobile phones from an alternate reality - mobile phones that work with coal and steam.

3) Their own currency is unstable and inflating, so they will switch to Bitcoin. And not to US dollars, for instance, which are orders of magnitude more stable. Sure thing.

4) Oh, but they cannot switch to US dollars, because of the capital controls. Uh-huh, while switching to Bitcoin will be a breeze. Because the authorities there are stupid and will say "sure, go ahead, feel free to escape inflation and capital controls with Bitcoin, as long as it is not real currency like US dollars or euros". Personal disclosure: I still have some amount of money frozen in Iceland, which introduced capital controls after its economy (banks, really) crashed. Guess what, trading in Bitcoin (as well as in any  foreign currency) is prohibited there. (I think it is allowed to sell bitcoins that you have mined yourself but that's about it.) And Iceland is a free and democratic country with lots of protection of personal rights. Imagine how it would be under some tinpot dictatorship.

5) M-Pesa was successful because all you needed was an SMS-capable phone (and electricity for it, of course). Not a phone that is capable of doing SHA-256, RIPEM-160, ECC and other crap like that.

6) BitPesa doesn't let you send money to some poor African villager with no electricity. It lets you send bitcoins to one particular company, which promises to deliver Kenyan currency to the recipient of your choice. Tell me again about trustless money transfer with no need for a trusted third party. Still, Bitcoin is indeed suitable for the company that does this - since it allows cheap international money transfer to it. It is not suitable for sending money directly to the poor African villagers with no electricity.

You really ought to get out more. There is a real world out there, you know.

Not dissing Bitcoin or anything like that - it is a brilliant idea with a bright future. But the wide-eyed crazies promoting it as a solution to every world problem are really doing it a disservice. It is a mistake to try to impose it as money or a national currency or whatever. Where it really shines is as a payment method. The guys who started using it internally to allow cheap remittances for the Filipino workers in Hong Kong back home got it right. Bitcoin is suitable for them - not for the poor Filipino workers. Trying to get those workers to transact in Bitcoin would have been stupid and would have failed miserably.

[BitcoinFreak12]

Let me see if I got the reasoning right.

1) The value of Bitcoin will be driven to huge new highs because Bitcoin will be embraced by all those millions of poor people in Africa. Who don't have any money to begin with. Yeah, right. They will drive the price of Bitcoin up with their bids. That's the ticket.

You confuse money with wealth. Yes they dont have money because their currency is crap, but they have wealth, every single able bodied african can create a product or a service that can be sold to bitcoin.

Bitcoin value is not going up just because USD and EUR as injected into it, it can also go up if products are denominated in BTC and sold in it.

How many slave factories are there in africa where they pay them 10 cent/hour? You know those poor people could do just the same on their own, and get paid in Bitcoins, futhermore they keep all the profits and not share any of it with their slavemaster employers.

I dont know they could just grow vegetables and fruits and sell them inbetween eachother, that could also grow the BTC market cap, it doesnt necesarly have to be FOREX injection.

Wealth is the one that drives up prices not money, the fiat currencies are also a representation of wealth. Just as labour, and other work, can create wealth.

2) They don't have any electricity - but they do have mobile phones. Must be some model mobile phones from an alternate reality - mobile phones that work with coal and steam.

Have you ever heard of batteries ? Its a great invetion, it makes electricity portable, google it if you dont know what it is.

3) Their own currency is unstable and inflating, so they will switch to Bitcoin. And not to US dollars, for instance, which are orders of magnitude more stable. Sure thing.

The USD is in a huge ponzi scheme debt bubble, its days of being a reserve currency are numbered, people will need some alternatives, besides USD transaction comissions are huge, i dont think that poor africans enjoy 10-20 $ comisions, when their daily wage is less than the comission they have to pay.

So yes BTC is better for poor people.

4) Oh, but they cannot switch to US dollars, because of the capital controls. Uh-huh, while switching to Bitcoin will be a breeze. Because the authorities there are stupid and will say "sure, go ahead, feel free to escape inflation and capital controls with Bitcoin, as long as it is not real currency like US dollars or euros". Personal disclosure: I still have some amount of money frozen in Iceland, which introduced capital controls after its economy (banks, really) crashed. Guess what, trading in Bitcoin (as well as in any  foreign currency) is prohibited there. (I think it is allowed to sell bitcoins that you have mined yourself but that's about it.) And Iceland is a free and democratic country with lots of protection of personal rights. Imagine how it would be under some tinpot dictatorship.

Yeah like the authorities there will care, they can only seize what they see, sure they can seize banks and other stuff there ,but BTC is more underground, unless they go house to house and check everyone's phone i highly doubt it.

5) M-Pesa was successful because all you needed was an SMS-capable phone (and electricity for it, of course). Not a phone that is capable of doing SHA-256, RIPEM-160, ECC and other crap like that.

Who said that it has to contain the blockchain? Just like smartphones do, you create an online wallet and you only need internet.

Well for older phones you could use the sms technology to send tokens that will validate the transactions, but all BTC will be stored in some online wallet.

If Bitpesa could collaborate with Blockchain.com or Coinbase.com and create an API for SMS transactions then it could work very easily.

6) BitPesa doesn't let you send money to some poor African villager with no electricity. It lets you send bitcoins to one particular company, which promises to deliver Kenyan currency to the recipient of your choice. Tell me again about trustless money transfer with no need for a trusted third party. Still, Bitcoin is indeed suitable for the company that does this - since it allows cheap international money transfer to it. It is not suitable for sending money directly to the poor African villagers with no electricity.

More obstacles, Kenyan currency is only available in Kenya but BTC could be available in all Africa.

[Vessko]

You confuse money with wealth.

I most definitely do not. However, an argument was made that a) people in Africa don't have money and b) their use of Bitcoin will drive the price of Bitcoin up, so I pointed out the idiocy of that argument.

Bitcoin value is not going up just because USD and EUR as injected into it, it can also go up if products are denominated in BTC and sold in it.

Yeah, right. And when it drives the price down instead, people will say that it's because the sellers of products convert BTC to a currency of their choice (like US dollars or whatever else doesn't fluctuate by 5% per day), putting a selling pressure on BTC. Or that the market is manipulated. Or that it's all a secret government plot. Or whatever.

How many slave factories are there in africa where they pay them 10 cent/hour? You know those poor people could do just the same on their own, and get paid in Bitcoins, futhermore they keep all the profits and not share any of it with their slavemaster employers.

Uh-huh. Why don't the slave workers in China do that already? Bitcoin is much more popular there, you know.

I dont know they could just grow vegetables and fruits and sell them inbetween eachother, that could also grow the BTC market cap, it doesnt necesarly have to be FOREX injection.

Lulz. I don't think that you understand what a "market cap" is.

Wealth is the one that drives up prices not money, the fiat currencies are also a representation of wealth. Just as labour, and other work, can create wealth.

This is an interesting hodge-podge of economic theories, some of them right, some of them wrong. Wealth drives prices up - false. Money doesn't drive prices up - true. Currencies (not just fiat) are only a representation of wealth - true. Labor creates wealth - partially true, in the sense that it's only one of the factors.

2) They don't have any electricity - but they do have mobile phones. Must be some model mobile phones from an alternate reality - mobile phones that work with coal and steam.

Have you ever heard of batteries ? Its a great invetion, it makes electricity portable, google it if you dont know what it is.

So, they do have electricity, only it's portable? Okey-dokey. Of course, a phone battery lasts only a few days (even if the phone isn't used), so they must have easy and convenient way of replacing or recharging them. Recharging them requires electricity. Replacing them requires a store, which also requires electricity.

The USD is in a huge ponzi scheme debt bubble, its days of being a reserve currency are numbered

Lulz. You clearly do not understand what a "reserve currency" means. All competing currencies will fail first and while nothing lasts forever, you and I might be lucky enough not to live to see it. Well, at least I. I'm considered somewhat old already.

people will need some alternatives

Uh-huh, like something in which they can park 150 freaking trillions worth of US dollars (we are talking "reserve currency", remember?). Alternatives like US dollar-denominated US Treasurys and.... OK, you got me, I can't think of anything else suitable for the purpose.

besides USD transaction comissions are huge, i dont think that poor africans enjoy 10-20 $ comisions, when their daily wage is less than the comission they have to pay.

For international transfers, yes. For day-to-day small exchanges it costs nothing; you only need to have banknotes. Oh, yes, and you need a government that would let you use them.

Yeah like the authorities there will care

Trust me, governments do care, especially when money is involved. It's not like I have millions frozen in Iceland. It's the equivalent of some silly $10k US dollars. (Well, was the equivalent of that when they blocked it; by now inflation should have eaten most of it.) I even hired a lawyer to petition the central bank to allow the transaction, because it's such a small amount. No can do, said the central bank, "it would destabilize the krona". Are you freaking kidding me?! If a currency would be "destabilized" by such a pitiful exchange, it surely isn't very "stable" to begin with, no? But, hey, that's governments to you...

sure they can seize banks and other stuff there ,but BTC is more underground, unless they go house to house and check everyone's phone i highly doubt it.

They can seize the payment processor that accepts BTC, like BitPesa, and I think I already explained to you why direct BTC transactions with poor villagers with no electricity is a phantasy.

5) M-Pesa was successful because all you needed was an SMS-capable phone (and electricity for it, of course). Not a phone that is capable of doing SHA-256, RIPEM-160, ECC and other crap like that.

Who said that it has to contain the blockchain? Just like smartphones do, you create an online wallet and you only need internet.

It's not the blockchain size that is the problem - most mobile phone wallets don't contain it, either. But you still need to do the crypto stuff on the phone, in order to sign your transactions and to verify the incoming ones.

Well for older phones you could use the sms technology to send tokens that will validate the transactions,

Do you even know how M-Pesa works? SMS can't "validate" anything. SMS just tells your "money holder" (who knows your phone number and whom you must trust) "send this amount of money to the account of that phone number".

but all BTC will be stored in some online wallet.

Uh-huh, and then you get

• "We were hacked" (read: the CEO ran away with your money)
• "Government closed us down and took all the money"
• "But Coinbase is tracking my purchases!"

Oh, well, whatever. Keep dreaming.

[MikeCoin]

Bitcoin is dropping every day.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Bitcoin is dropping every day.

True story

[BitcoinFreak12]

Bitcoin is dropping every day.

So what it needs a more stable price for merchandise. That doesn't mean that it will be destroyed, it means just that the 1000$ BTC was too overvalued and the market needs to adjust. The lower BTC is the real BTC, not the speculative inflated bubble price, that was in 2013, that was ridiculously high, of course it will drop from there.

I think it wont drop below 300$, that will be a stable price.

[Crypty3]

Well this escalated quickly.....

Bitcoin created new winners a year ago, now it's creating new losers who still on the boat 

he's young
he's Mike
he talks a load of shite

tulip mania
tulip mania

I'm the man with crypto profits made a year ago, you are a newbie account feeding whales 

You are the man that is soooo negative.
Do the community a favour.
Take your profit and get out of this forum as nothing you say is worthwhile

[sdersdf3]

Do you guys think Bitcoins will rebuild themselves here?  It seems rather scary and hard to get people invovled with Bitcoin continually going down for the last year.  Everyone I try to talk to tells me they don't want to get involved because it will crash

What do you mean rebuild themselves? Tell people not to fixate on the current price but it's potential value in the future. Bitcoin is more than just a currency it's an entire network that many industries and companies can benefit from using.

If that were true and we assume the market is a halfway decent discounting mechanism, this would be priced in. Instead, the market is treating bitcoin like just another pump-and-dump altcoin. All the big trading action these days is in shorting it.

[Crypty3]

Do you guys think Bitcoins will rebuild themselves here?  It seems rather scary and hard to get people invovled with Bitcoin continually going down for the last year.  Everyone I try to talk to tells me they don't want to get involved because it will crash

What do you mean rebuild themselves? Tell people not to fixate on the current price but it's potential value in the future. Bitcoin is more than just a currency it's an entire network that many industries and companies can benefit from using.

If that were true and we assume the market is a halfway decent discounting mechanism, this would be priced in. Instead, the market is treating bitcoin like just another pump-and-dump altcoin. All the big trading action these days is in shorting it.

I also think the selling pressure from merchants is having downward pressure on the market. I struggle to see how this downward pressure will be adverted without large money coming in. I also doubt this large money won't be in BTC anytime soon, due to the fingers burnt a year ago.

[mlferro]

Bitcoin is dropping every day.

True story

really, what remains is expected to rise and so sell we buy this low of epoch

[Aemon]

Of course Bitcoin is dropping everyday.  People are panicking and selling and the supply is becoming more great than the demand.  What we need is for people to start buying and hoarding coins so they are hard to get so it increases the value. 

[needFREElunch]

Do you guys think Bitcoins will rebuild themselves here?  It seems rather scary and hard to get people invovled with Bitcoin continually going down for the last year.  Everyone I try to talk to tells me they don't want to get involved because it will crash

What do you mean rebuild themselves? Tell people not to fixate on the current price but it's potential value in the future. Bitcoin is more than just a currency it's an entire network that many industries and companies can benefit from using.

If that were true and we assume the market is a halfway decent discounting mechanism, this would be priced in. Instead, the market is treating bitcoin like just another pump-and-dump altcoin. All the big trading action these days is in shorting it.

I also think the selling pressure from merchants is having downward pressure on the market. I struggle to see how this downward pressure will be adverted without large money coming in. I also doubt this large money won't be in BTC anytime soon, due to the fingers burnt a year ago.

I would argue that merchants accepting bitcoin is going to have a net positive affect on the price and chances of sucess of bitcoin. Many people that end up spending bitcoin are going to have to buy bitcoin on an exchange and may not spend all the bitcoin they purhcase

[Kipsy89]

Yeah, it really revolutionizes everything! Only you yourself are in control of your money. This is insane. It took me a couple of months to really "get" Bitcoin to be honest, but once you start to grasp the whole concept and the implications, you do realize what an amazing technology it is!!!

[elephantas1]

Of course Bitcoin is dropping everyday.  People are panicking and selling and the supply is becoming more great than the demand.  What we need is for people to start buying and hoarding coins so they are hard to get so it increases the value. 

its impossible to stop them because there always be such people who sells it the one thing we need is to attract new investors who would buy it

[Aemon]

Of course Bitcoin is dropping everyday.  People are panicking and selling and the supply is becoming more great than the demand.  What we need is for people to start buying and hoarding coins so they are hard to get so it increases the value. 

its impossible to stop them because there always be such people who sells it the one thing we need is to attract new investors who would buy it

It is super hard to get people into something that has been sliding for over a year.  As any investor would look at this and say, Bitcoin will crash with in 1 year, why should I invest.  It is way to hard to get new investors

[thetimeisnow001]

I made a video on why I think Bitcoin is a strong investment, check it out, your feedback is welcome!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-7IjeQvFVU

[freedombit]

The people here clearly do not understand what "investment" is.

Investment is a claim on long-term cash flow from a security. Bitcoin has no cash flow. You cannot "invest" in Bitcoin - or in gold, or in a fiat currency, for that matter. You can save, hoard or speculate in these things - but you cannot invest in them.

If you bought bitcoins because you thought they were going up in price, you were speculating. If you bought them because you thought they were useful technology and the future belongs to them, you've made an expenditure - just like when buying a new computer or an electric car or whatever.

If you are staring at your "paper loss" because Bitcoin is now worth less in some fiat currency than when you bought it, you've just made an unsuccessful speculation. Live with it - speculators do that all the time. If you think that Bitcoin is less useful now than when you bought it (or hasn't served your needs for the time you've owned it), then you've simply made a bad purchase - people do that all the time. If neither is the case, then why would its exchange ratio with fiat currencies matter to you?

Thank you.

[NandChipProvider]

The people here clearly do not understand what "investment" is.

Investment is a claim on long-term cash flow from a security. Bitcoin has no cash flow. You cannot "invest" in Bitcoin - or in gold, or in a fiat currency, for that matter. You can save, hoard or speculate in these things - but you cannot invest in them.

If you bought bitcoins because you thought they were going up in price, you were speculating. If you bought them because you thought they were useful technology and the future belongs to them, you've made an expenditure - just like when buying a new computer or an electric car or whatever.

If you are staring at your "paper loss" because Bitcoin is now worth less in some fiat currency than when you bought it, you've just made an unsuccessful speculation. Live with it - speculators do that all the time. If you think that Bitcoin is less useful now than when you bought it (or hasn't served your needs for the time you've owned it), then you've simply made a bad purchase - people do that all the time. If neither is the case, then why would its exchange ratio with fiat currencies matter to you?

now finally some words with sense.
#longterm #cheapcoin #investment

[sdersdf3]

Do you guys think Bitcoins will rebuild themselves here?  It seems rather scary and hard to get people invovled with Bitcoin continually going down for the last year.  Everyone I try to talk to tells me they don't want to get involved because it will crash

What do you mean rebuild themselves? Tell people not to fixate on the current price but it's potential value in the future. Bitcoin is more than just a currency it's an entire network that many industries and companies can benefit from using.

If that were true and we assume the market is a halfway decent discounting mechanism, this would be priced in. Instead, the market is treating bitcoin like just another pump-and-dump altcoin. All the big trading action these days is in shorting it.

I also think the selling pressure from merchants is having downward pressure on the market. I struggle to see how this downward pressure will be adverted without large money coming in. I also doubt this large money won't be in BTC anytime soon, due to the fingers burnt a year ago.

Problem is that BTC is not giving enough people enough good reason to buy enough of it. Needs a killer app. Ethereum, Counterparty and NectarCoin seem to have the right ideas in that regard.

[sdersdf3]

Of course Bitcoin is dropping everyday.  People are panicking and selling and the supply is becoming more great than the demand.  What we need is for people to start buying and hoarding coins so they are hard to get so it increases the value.  

its impossible to stop them because there always be such people who sells it the one thing we need is to attract new investors who would buy it

It is super hard to get people into something that has been sliding for over a year.  As any investor would look at this and say, Bitcoin will crash with in 1 year, why should I invest.  It is way to hard to get new investors

+1

Anyone looking at a historical chart would not find bitcoin to be a reliable store of value, to say nothing of a good investment, but maybe we're looking at the capitulation that comes before a bounce.

Still, one thing to get really worried about is the risk of a big holder throwing up his hands and mega-dumping, like Winkelvosses or Satoshi himself.

[sdersdf3]

The people here clearly do not understand what "investment" is.

Investment is a claim on long-term cash flow from a security. Bitcoin has no cash flow. You cannot "invest" in Bitcoin - or in gold, or in a fiat currency, for that matter. You can save, hoard or speculate in these things - but you cannot invest in them.

If you bought bitcoins because you thought they were going up in price, you were speculating. If you bought them because you thought they were useful technology and the future belongs to them, you've made an expenditure - just like when buying a new computer or an electric car or whatever.

If you are staring at your "paper loss" because Bitcoin is now worth less in some fiat currency than when you bought it, you've just made an unsuccessful speculation. Live with it - speculators do that all the time. If you think that Bitcoin is less useful now than when you bought it (or hasn't served your needs for the time you've owned it), then you've simply made a bad purchase - people do that all the time. If neither is the case, then why would its exchange ratio with fiat currencies matter to you?

now finally some words with sense.
#longterm #cheapcoin #investment

This is mostly true except that currencies are in some limited sense an investment in that you're investing indirectly in the ecosystem behind them. The US dollar's strong when the US economy's relatively strong and vice versa. Same goes for most currencies in other countries.

One of the reason's bitcoin is weak is because it lacks a killer app and the ecosystem isn't as strong as it should be. Adoption is the big issue - it's lacking big time.

[Balls]

Of course Bitcoin is dropping everyday.  People are panicking and selling and the supply is becoming more great than the demand.  What we need is for people to start buying and hoarding coins so they are hard to get so it increases the value. 

its impossible to stop them because there always be such people who sells it the one thing we need is to attract new investors who would buy it

It is super hard to get people into something that has been sliding for over a year.  As any investor would look at this and say, Bitcoin will crash with in 1 year, why should I invest.  It is way to hard to get new investors

Or maybe they can see the potential in its future value. Bitcoin could/can still be huge and there are entire industries that can benefit from it. Personally I think people just need patience as it's not going to happen over night, but just remember the risks if you are investing. Bitcoin is still an experiment really and only time will tell whether it's successful.

[sdersdf3]

Of course Bitcoin is dropping everyday.  People are panicking and selling and the supply is becoming more great than the demand.  What we need is for people to start buying and hoarding coins so they are hard to get so it increases the value. 

its impossible to stop them because there always be such people who sells it the one thing we need is to attract new investors who would buy it

It is super hard to get people into something that has been sliding for over a year.  As any investor would look at this and say, Bitcoin will crash with in 1 year, why should I invest.  It is way to hard to get new investors

Or maybe they can see the potential in its future value. Bitcoin could/can still be huge and there are entire industries that can benefit from it. Personally I think people just need patience as it's not going to happen over night, but just remember the risks if you are investing. Bitcoin is still an experiment really and only time will tell whether it's successful.

Replace Bitcoin with blockchain technology

[LOBSTER]

You saw the potential of Bitcoin.

It's a great intervention with unlimited possibilities for everyone.

[Aemon]

Unfortunately the potential doesn't mean much.  Far as I see it everything has potential to be great, and Bitcoin was for a short time.  It seems to be falling extremely quick and I don't think it will make it the rest of the year.  Here is hoping to it actually working though!

[Zhan21]

Bitcoin is dropping every day.

True story

I want to make money, but the loss has been formed.