Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks

[cynicSOB]

Are you successfully gonna kill a dead coin? 

I didn't realize it was dead when I decided to do it
anyway, the point is that I only use 0,07% of the available supply...

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[cynicSOB]

ok, the block explorer has now updated with all my blocks. Since block 339807 up to 339899 they are all mine.
You can see they all come from addresses with 10 APEX which all were split from one large address in this transaction: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/tx.dws?506936.htm

oh, and I made a triple spend in the way.

[Daedelus]

Nice. But what does it show on a dead coin? There will be a handful of nodes, no one staking... hardly representative. Top 20 coin next time? 

[cynicSOB]

Nice. But what does it show on a dead coin? There will be a handful of nodes, no one staking... hardly representative. Top 20 coin next time?  

according to this: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/#!extraction  10% of supply was staking. Not that bad. Consider that it has a minimum stake of 1 day

PPC has a minimum of 30 days: this means most stakeholders cannot put their PPC holdings at stake even if they wanted to. The problem is PPC's market cap is almost 7M USD. The 3% or 4% I would need are still a lot of money....

And you don't need 90 blocks in a row as I did: you only need 3 blocks for a PPC double-spend on some exchanges.

I had a devastating 90 blocks with a ridiculous 0.07% of the supply.... and I didn't even try to "brute force" the stake modifier...

[Daedelus]

Are you spreading your stake thinly across multiple accounts and waiting for the coin age to build?

10% is good? Ok  

Keep it up, research is good. A paper would be good, eventually.

[cynicSOB]

Are you spreading your stake thinly across multiple accounts and waiting for the coin age to build?

yes
but just to be sure and to make it easier I overdid it. If an exchange waits for 6 confirmations, you would only need to split it in 6 (maybe 7, not 400 like I did).
I'm researching more advanced stuff like brute-forcing the stake modifier until I get 6 blocks in a row with a high probability of winning against the main chain with much less stake.

Keep it up, research is good. A paper would be good, eventually.

thanks... with this technique alone, I could do Reddcoin (26 in coinmarketcap, which includes ripple and other stuff) for 12k USD or about 60BTC - less than 2% of market cap. Still too much for me...

the method is simple, and the only modification to the client was adding the ability to stake without publishing blocks (and then publish the private chain all at once), and to enable/disable listening of blocks and tx from other nodes. This allowed me to spend on one node while using the same coins for minting a parallel chain on another node.

[Daedelus]

I think Peercoin has implemented checkpoints to guard against this. BCNext recognised the attack and that's why Nxt doesn't use coin age. 

It is good you have proved him right (if you have, I didn't check  ), I'm not sure that has been done before.

Do you know any Java?

[cynicSOB]

It's true that the last checkpoint for APEX was months ago, but checkpoints wouldn't help against this because I'm rewinding only the few last blocks.

I know some Java, and I'd like to do Nxt eventually - it doesn't have coin age but it has something similar: the time since the last block makes your target easier as time goes by... I think this can be exploited in a similar way. Split, and then decide (brute force) which of your accounts will you use to mint in order to get more chances on the next block.

[cynicSOB]

bittrex disabled apex deposits and withdrawals as soon as the first reorg happened...

[Daedelus]

If you have got an attack that isn't listed here (or you think they are wrong)...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897488.msg10152632#msg10152632

...then comment at the bottom of the thread.

[cynicSOB]

I sent all the small batches of 10 APEX to a single address AHh8p4b9Pw9mBY2vNfgi6DE6FmBe4Jw3Pz to prove that they all belong to the same person. This is an address from cryptsy, and I'll try so spend those one more time.
They have a value of about 1USD and it's not like I'm stealing: I'm willing to give it back

[Come-from-Beyond]

lots of people complain about the quantity of coins and how the forum is flooded... some proposed ideas to clean it up....
I'll show you how it's done - I'll start attacking weak coins accelerating their death

just wait and see the results, I'll soon show the first victim. Let's start with PoS coins: some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend.

the point of this thread is to see how people react to this: I won't steal from anyone, but some may lose "money".

Some questions:

1. is this a good idea?
2. would you donate so I can attack more POS coins? (maybe spare some coins you are bagholding)
3. would you pay to know the time of the attack and the victim in advance?
4. would you pay for "double spend as a service" (in this case you decide coin and the timing of the attack)?
5. is this legal?
6. do you think someone would pay to have me killed?

go!

update: apexcoin attack successful witih 0,07% of available supply

Why do you copy speech style of FrictionlessCoin? I've ran a small program that showed high correlation with that guy.

[cynicSOB]

Why do you copy speech style of FrictionlessCoin? I've ran a small program that showed high correlation with that guy.

really? I don't know who that is... I wonder how I correlate to other users...

[Crestington]

Interesting, wouldn't checkpoint servers and checkpointing every block combat this though? I like the research, should never give bad credit to finding exploits

[cynicSOB]

Interesting, wouldn't checkpoint servers and checkpointing every block combat this though?

yes, but it wouldn't be a decentralized currency! it would be a system controlled by a centralized checkpointer.
If you did decentralized checkpointing every block then the network would split and wouldn't work.

[cynicSOB]

Why do you copy speech style of FrictionlessCoin? I've ran a small program that showed high correlation with that guy.

really? I don't know who that is... I wonder how I correlate to other users...

anyway, please ignore the messenger and pay attention to the message!

[Come-from-Beyond]

I wonder how I correlate to other users...

There are high correlations with some other users, but they can be sockpuppets of the guy. Ok, keep posting, I'll rerun the analysis in a month when get more your posts.

[cynicSOB]

If you have got an attack that isn't listed here (or you think they are wrong)...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897488.msg10152632#msg10152632

...then comment at the bottom of the thread.

I will comment there, but I think it falls under the "Short-range attack" category.

[djm34]

I wonder how I correlate to other users...

There are high correlations with some other users, but they can be sockpuppets of the guy. Ok, keep posting, I'll rerun the analysis in a month when get more your posts.

are you opensourcing your program...(or just care to share a few informations about) that sounds very interesting and clearly more than anything on that thread...

[Come-from-Beyond]

are you opensourcing your program...(or just care to share a few informations about) that sounds very interesting and clearly more than anything on that thread...

I don't open-source it yet. It works very unreliably with texts written by non-native speakers, because they tend to copy phrases of other people (it's caused by learning of new words).