Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks

[speedy1987]

lots of people complain about the quantity of coins and how the forum is flooded... some proposed ideas to clean it up....
I'll show you how it's done - I'll start attacking weak coins accelerating their death

just wait and see the results, I'll soon show the first victim. Let's start with PoS coins: some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend.

the point of this thread is to see how people react to this: I won't steal from anyone, but some may lose "money".

Some questions:

1. is this a good idea?
2. would you donate so I can attack more POS coins? (maybe spare some coins you are bagholding)
3. would you pay to know the time of the attack and the victim in advance?
4. would you pay for "double spend as a service" (in this case you decide coin and the timing of the attack)?
5. is this legal?
6. do you think someone would pay to have me killed?

go!

update: apexcoin attack successful witih 0,07% of available supply

Do NXT pls and PM me a result. Will donate a bit if successful.

yeesss please.
NXT is badass.

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[ArticMine]

The real test for NXT will come if someone sets up a ponzi using NXT.

[stevegreer]

I have a valid question, that I'm surprised no one has asked yet. What gives you the right to decide that any coin at all needs to be attacked? It shouldn't matter what your opinion is of any particular coin, there are people who have money tied up in those coins, and you are bragging about having the ability to kill those coins and cause people to lose their money. The fact that you are publicly posting this threat is either incredibly bold, or incredibly stupid.

If however the point you are trying to make is to be some way beneficial to the devs and can be used to strengthen the block chains to prevent attacks like this from happening, then more power to you.

[Hueristic]

I have a valid question, that I'm surprised no one has asked yet. What gives you the right to decide that any coin at all needs to be attacked? It shouldn't matter what your opinion is of any particular coin, there are people who have money tied up in those coins, and you are bragging about having the ability to kill those coins and cause people to lose their money. The fact that you are publicly posting this threat is either incredibly bold, or incredibly stupid.

If however the point you are trying to make is to be some way beneficial to the devs and can be used to strengthen the block chains to prevent attacks like this from happening, then more power to you.

[EvilDave]

The real test for NXT will come if someone sets up a ponzi using NXT.

I have a funny feeling someone did.....
Yep, they did.
and then...
Someone else did it, too. Twice.

Moving swiftly on....I reckon it would be a good idea to give cynicSOB a go on the NXT TestNet. That way, we can provide him with as much TestNXT as he needs to carry out an attack, without worrying too much about incurring real-world costs. And, if any of this works out, we should discuss a bounty.....

Have the Apexcoin devs shown any reaction, thanks or communication about the attack ?

[stevegreer]

I have a valid question, that I'm surprised no one has asked yet. What gives you the right to decide that any coin at all needs to be attacked? It shouldn't matter what your opinion is of any particular coin, there are people who have money tied up in those coins, and you are bragging about having the ability to kill those coins and cause people to lose their money. The fact that you are publicly posting this threat is either incredibly bold, or incredibly stupid.

If however the point you are trying to make is to be some way beneficial to the devs and can be used to strengthen the block chains to prevent attacks like this from happening, then more power to you.

Please tell you I didn't say what?

[CryptoClub]

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

[stevegreer]

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

+1

[Crestington]

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

Best when these things are open because it solves the issue quicker, MintCoin survived and is stronger because of it.

[Damelon]

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

Best when these things are open because it solves the issue quicker, MintCoin survived and is stronger because of it.

Plus: I hardly think we're going to convince him nót to do it.

I'd rather conserve my energy and learn what we can if he's going to do it anyway

[ArticMine]

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

People should be afraid of POS. It is at a very fundamental level no different from Apple, or a wall street bank, without the safety net provided by the government regulators. POS is a bad emulation of wall street. POW is a good emulation of gold.

Edit: This is not as simple as a code vulnerability that a dev can fix. It is very fundamental.

[kiklo]

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

People should be afraid of POS. It is at a very fundamental level no different from Apple, or a wall street bank, without the safety net provided by the government regulators. POS is a bad emulation of wall street. POW is a good emulation of gold.

Edit: This is not as simple as a code vulnerability that a dev can fix. It is very fundamental.

POW is less safe than POS, because all you need is over 51% mining and you can double spend .
Miners start dropping off as POW mining no longer keeps their profit margin high enough.
POS miners profit margin to stake does not force them to shut down like a POW miner.

If all of us trust government , there would be no cryptocoins.
Cryptocoins exist because less people trust their governments everyday.

 

[esotericizm]

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

People should be afraid of POS. It is at a very fundamental level no different from Apple, or a wall street bank, without the safety net provided by the government regulators. POS is a bad emulation of wall street. POW is a good emulation of gold.

Edit: This is not as simple as a code vulnerability that a dev can fix. It is very fundamental.

POW is less safe than POS, because all you need is over 51% mining and you can double spend .
Miners start dropping off as POW mining no longer keeps their profit margin high enough.
POS miners profit margin to stake does not force them to shut down like a POW miner.

If all of us trust government , there would be no cryptocoins.
Cryptocoins exist because less people trust their governments everyday.

 

I suggest you read through the thread.

I don't particularly like that investors may loose money over this but its far better than the alternative which is the OP having enough initial funds to really do damage to a larger coin and then keeping the exploit secret.

if OP can successfully demonstrate an exploit on a coin with a larger market cap then all the power to him because it will lead to change for the better.

[ThomasVeil]

People should be afraid of POS. It is at a very fundamental level no different from Apple, or a wall street bank, without the safety net provided by the government regulators.

You somehow managed to completely miss the point of cryptocurrencies.

POS is a bad emulation of wall street. POW is a good emulation of gold.

Yes, because gold miners can double-spend the gold they own.
I'm starting to think you're posting drunk.

[kiklo]

I suggest you read through the thread.

I don't particularly like that investors may loose money over this but its far better than the alternative which is the OP having enough initial funds to really do damage to a larger coin and then keeping the exploit secret.

if OP can successfully demonstrate an exploit on a coin with a larger market cap then all the power to him because it will lead to change for the better.

Explain how an exploit works is all that is needed to get some coins to make changes.
Then it falls to the coin community to make the change or risk the damages.

Example:
A Guy tells you it is not safe to fall out of a 5 story floor.

Do you think he has the right to push you out of the window of that 5 story floor to prove it to the other people in the office.

Informing is good, causing harm to prove the point is wrong , if you can't see the difference.
Then you have your own issues to deal with.

 

[tx42]

I have a valid question, that I'm surprised no one has asked yet. What gives you the right to decide that any coin at all needs to be attacked? It shouldn't matter what your opinion is of any particular coin, there are people who have money tied up in those coins, and you are bragging about having the ability to kill those coins and cause people to lose their money. The fact that you are publicly posting this threat is either incredibly bold, or incredibly stupid.

If however the point you are trying to make is to be some way beneficial to the devs and can be used to strengthen the block chains to prevent attacks like this from happening, then more power to you.

Your first paragraph was my original response. But I read past the first 3 sentences and realized that this is a valid cause. The bad coins should be attacked. This is noble work. It's not done out of malice or a general hatred, but to cull the herd or at least toughen the coins that remain standing after the attacks.

Hopefully the OP will share his findings and we will learn more about PoS crypto. I'm very interested in the results.

[ArticMine]

The "Second Pirate Savings and Trust" attack on Proof-of-Stake. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897488.msg10182752#msg10182752

[tx42]

The "Second Pirate Savings and Trust" attack on Proof-of-Stake. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897488.msg10182752#msg10182752

Nothing about that "attack" necessitates proof of stake.

If it was a real attack, why don't you do it and prove it like the OP has done with apex? I'll tell you why: because it won't work. Show us the money or STFU.

[ArticMine]

The "Second Pirate Savings and Trust" attack on Proof-of-Stake. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897488.msg10182752#msg10182752

Nothing about that "attack" necessitates proof of stake.

If it was a real attack, why don't you do it and prove it like the OP has done with apex? I'll tell you why: because it won't work. Show us the money or STFU.

If one reads the whole attack there is a Proof of Stake specific part and a countermeasure. The countermeasure is the reason I am not launching the attack. Proof of Stake can work, but only with the help of the state. The OP's attack for example could be used as the Proof of Stake specific part / exit strategy so could any other attack on a POS coin that requires stake.

Edit: This is no different from the fiat system Take the state out of the equation and it collapses. This is what nearly happened in 2008. Banks are for the most part proof of stake organizations.

[stevegreer]

Your first paragraph was my original response. But I read past the first 3 sentences and realized that this is a valid cause. The bad coins should be attacked. This is noble work. It's not done out of malice or a general hatred, but to cull the herd or at least toughen the coins that remain standing after the attacks.

Hopefully the OP will share his findings and we will learn more about PoS crypto. I'm very interested in the results.

Perhaps you read something that I missed then. In his OP he states his reasoning is because of the "quantity" of coins, not the "quality." Personally I see no reason to attack coins, especially ones that meet his own agenda and not the consensus of the entire crypto community. History has shown that most all shit coins will die natural deaths anyway. Let the herd cull itself instead of having some wannabe savior of the crypto world launch attacks on whatever coins he chooses.