Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks

[Este Nuno]

So, found any holes the Nxt devs missed in their implementation? 

I think so... but as I said, I need some time to implement the attack and completely understand the implications... attacking still requires a lot of stake, looking how to improve that...

Were you not able to gather enough testnet stake to test your theories?

[1714145445]

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[1714145445]

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[cynicSOB]

So, found any holes the Nxt devs missed in their implementation? 

I think so... but as I said, I need some time to implement the attack and completely understand the implications... attacking still requires a lot of stake, looking how to improve that...

Were you not able to gather enough testnet stake to test your theories?

I didn't even get to the part were I know how much I need. Patience! remember it took me some time with Apex but I delivered.

[Hueristic]

Keep going, This is what keeps me interested while all my coins plummet.

[ed_teech]

This looks interesting, reminds me of BCX and Monero

[microbial]

these poor coins are in trouble 

[cynicSOB]

This looks interesting, reminds me of BCX and Monero

what happened with that? was there an attack or not?

[Nxtblg]

This looks interesting, reminds me of BCX and Monero

what happened with that? was there an attack or not?

There was an attempted attack, but it fizzled.

[ArticMine]

So, found any holes the Nxt devs missed in their implementation?  

I think so... but as I said, I need some time to implement the attack and completely understand the implications... attacking still requires a lot of stake, looking how to improve that...

Which is why borrowing state becomes an option for someone wishing to attack a POS coin. That is the essence of the "Second Pirate Savings and Trust" attack.

[Hueristic]

This looks interesting, reminds me of BCX and Monero

Not even close, BCX was full of shit.

[YarkoL]

Which is why borrowing state becomes an option for someone wishing to attack a POS coin.

So where can one lend large amounts of PoS coins?

[xyzzyx]

Which is why borrowing state becomes an option for someone wishing to attack a POS coin.

So where can one lend large amounts of PoS coins?

Nxt allows balance leasing.  The coins stay with the original account, but the PoS power goes to whom the balanced is leased to.   One Nxt is a simulated Bitcoin mining rig so think of it as a simulation of a Bitcoin pool.

[Este Nuno]

So, found any holes the Nxt devs missed in their implementation? 

I think so... but as I said, I need some time to implement the attack and completely understand the implications... attacking still requires a lot of stake, looking how to improve that...

Which is why borrowing state becomes an option for someone wishing to attack a POS coin. That is the essence of the "Second Pirate Savings and Trust" attack.

I think borrowing coins/leased forging and such is the only major danger that I've seen thus far to a solid PoS set up like NXT. In general I think PoS communities need to be vigilant about discouraging mass lending as it seems to be the only plausible way that an attacker could gain a sufficient amount of stake.

[achimsmile]

So, found any holes the Nxt devs missed in their implementation? 

I think so... but as I said, I need some time to implement the attack and completely understand the implications... attacking still requires a lot of stake, looking how to improve that...

Which is why borrowing state becomes an option for someone wishing to attack a POS coin. That is the essence of the "Second Pirate Savings and Trust" attack.

I think borrowing coins/leased forging and such is the only major danger that I've seen thus far to a solid PoS set up like NXT. In general I think PoS communities need to be vigilant about discouraging mass lending as it seems to be the only plausible way that an attacker could gain a sufficient amount of stake.

Agreed.
But there is not enough economic incentive in Nxt forging to form such large pools.

1M Nxt would have earned about 68USD if forging 24/7 over the whole last year.

[LiQio]

^

I believe that ArcticMine typically assumes some kind of super-ponzi-scheme to get a huge amount of stake/borrowed stake.
(The economic incentives would be based on this illusion/fictive returns)

[achimsmile]

^

I believe that ArcticMine typically assumes some kind of super-ponzi-scheme to get a huge amount of stake/borrowed stake.
(The economic incentives would be based on this illusion/fictive returns)

True, but he forgets how anally fixated large stakeholders are.

There are already promising assets such as supernet or Jinn, which aims to revolutionize CPU's, by going from binary to trinary data processing (in theory it can beat any CPU manufacturer in terms off efficiency. disclaimer: I don't own any Jinn assets)

All of these super promising projects did not attract a large percentage of overall NXt. I don't know what would.

Certainly not "a digital hedge fund that promises weekly returns of up to 7%" like pirate40's.
Remember that there is a lot more money in bitcoin, so 5,6M$ was not a lot of overall bitcoin stake.

I would never invest in such a fund, and I bet larger stakeholders wouldn't either.

[LiQio]

^

I believe that ArcticMine typically assumes some kind of super-ponzi-scheme to get a huge amount of stake/borrowed stake.
(The economic incentives would be based on this illusion/fictive returns)

True, but he forgets how anally fixated large stakeholders are.

There are already promising assets such as supernet or Jinn, which aims to revolutionize CPU's, by going from binary to trinary data processing (in theory it can beat any CPU manufacturer in terms off efficiency. disclaimer: I don't own any Jinn assets)

All of these super promising project did not attract a large percentage of overall NXt. I don't know what would.

Certainly not "a digital hedge fund that promises weekly returns of up to 7%" like pirate40's.
Remember that there is a lot more money in bitcoin, so 5,6M$ was not a lot of overall bitcoin stake.

I would never invest in such a fund, and I bet larger stakeholders wouldn't either.

We believe the same.

Plus, ideas like his could kill PoW coins as well: create very attractive mining pools, attract a lot of hashrate by asking for zero fees (use the typically lagged payout as your resource to pay the servers), as soon as your pools reach critical size, make bets against the coin with big leverage and then effect a 51% attack... not really gave it too much thought, but something around those lines.

[Este Nuno]

^

I believe that ArcticMine typically assumes some kind of super-ponzi-scheme to get a huge amount of stake/borrowed stake.
(The economic incentives would be based on this illusion/fictive returns)

True, but he forgets how anally fixated large stakeholders are.

There are already promising assets such as supernet or Jinn, which aims to revolutionize CPU's, by going from binary to trinary data processing (in theory it can beat any CPU manufacturer in terms off efficiency. disclaimer: I don't own any Jinn assets)

All of these super promising project did not attract a large percentage of overall NXt. I don't know what would.

Certainly not "a digital hedge fund that promises weekly returns of up to 7%" like pirate40's.
Remember that there is a lot more money in bitcoin, so 5,6M$ was not a lot of overall bitcoin stake.

I would never invest in such a fund, and I bet larger stakeholders wouldn't either.

We believe the same.

Plus, ideas like his could kill PoW coins as well: create very attractive mining pools, attract a lot of hashrate by asking for zero fees (use the typically lagged payout as your resource to pay the servers), as soon as your pools reach critical size, make bets against the coin with big leverage and then effect a 51% attack... not really gave it too much thought, but something around those lines.

That's exactly what happened with Ghash too. Zero fees and >50% hashing.

And then before that we had Deepbit over 50, and BTCGuild dangerously close to 50%.

Maybe PoS isn't in it's final fully robust form yet, but I think it sounds pretty solid. Someone could borrow or rent miners in PoW too. Or hack a pool like Ghash. And in PoS people get bent out of shape when they see a single account with 4-5% of supply when Bitcoin itself has had 3 separate mining pools around 50% already.

[ed_teech]

This looks interesting, reminds me of BCX and Monero

what happened with that? was there an attack or not?

BCX threatened Monero and their price fell, but nothing happened after a while.

[Eadeqa]

Watching

[cynicSOB]

hey, there's no sendmany in nxt? If I want to split my nxt in 50 accounts then I have to pay 50 NXT in fees, right? that's a bummer....

I post here because I don't have my nxtforum password with me right now....