Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks

[Argon18]

If they had invited you to a forum and you spent a few days testing your theory which would benefit them by helping secure their network , they would owe you something for your efforts.
And I would call them welchers too.

With the evidence we have so far, CfB's 30GH/s attack on bitcoin is just as possible as cynicSOB's is on Nxt.

Do you see the problem?

I like what cynicSOB is doing and hope he finds something, and I'm glad to donate some Nxt if he found a flaw,
but you shouldn't trust just words from strangers on the internet.

Don't trust just words , but what he did to apex was proof it can be done.
And if you follow the numbers he did it with 20% of apex stake weight.
Nxt could have said let's pick a 3rd party both trust to hold the bounty and received the info ,
if it turned out to be true, cynicSOB is paid by 3rd party and 3rd party relays the info to NXT,
if it turned out false 3rd party returns the bounty to NXT and deletes the info cynicSOB sent them without giving it to NXT.

The 3rd party would make the decision if it was true or not, just pick someone both sides agree too.

[1714912238]

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[1714912238]

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[Come-from-Beyond]

Nxt could have said let's pick a 3rd party both trust to hold the bounty and received the info ,
if it turned out to be true, cynicSOB is paid by 3rd party and 3rd party relays the info to NXT,
if it turned out false 3rd party returns the bounty to NXT and deletes the info cynicSOB sent them without giving it to NXT.

The 3rd party would make the decision if it was true or not, just pick someone both sides agree too.

The 3rd party must decide on the amount too in this case. I believe his attack is not worth 200k NXT.

[Argon18]

And I would call them welchers too.

You seem to be from the future where time machine is an ordinary device and bets are paid before the evidence is provided. In our time we used to go the other way around.

You Found me Out ,
 Yes I am from the Future where we Know NXT can't be trusted.
  What you get to ponder is just how soon before that future is your present.

[LiQio]

@Argon18

WTF, why are you trolling here?

Just read what was written...
IMO, NXT developers haven't had welching tendencies ever.

Being skeptical until proof is produced is normal.

[Come-from-Beyond]

You Found me Out ,
 Yes I am from the Future where we Know NXT can't be trusted.
  What you get to ponder is just how soon before that future is your present.

Low-quality trolling. You all in the future degraded too much. 

[Argon18]

@Argon18

WTF, why are you trolling here?

Just read what was written...
IMO, NXT developers haven't had welching tendencies ever.

Being skeptical until proof is produced is normal.

Not Trolling , just don't like Welchers.
Skeptical is fine, but if you read there forum they said they would figure it out themselves, but only after he brought it up, they would have not even know to look for it.
NXT=Welchers
So last post here, so you know I am not trolling.
__________________________________________________________________

Just to show you are not as smart as you think you are Come-from-Beyond
That Post did not come from me, so you insulted my IQ , but was proof yours is lacking,
since I did not send you a post!

Editing the Last Post is still the last Post ,Come-from-Beyond.
or are you too limited to see that, and want to pull more words from a dictionary.
You just ill, because you were wrong!
And now see me everywhere, sad.

Funny 7 posts after this one , still trying to dispute NXT=Welchers
Insults , will not change the facts, so keeping adding posts to support your weak arguments.

[Come-from-Beyond]

So last post here

Now, after you suddenly got a lot of free time, you could spend it on a little education. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy, you'll find a lot of revelations here.


PS: Oops, looks like I made him upset because right after my reply I got such the PM:

idiot.

So many sockpuppets around these days... (ab592726692ce7ce3999a4f59e53b3616f8a8416a869203c57de56a1e38c5ad3)

[achimsmile]

Don't trust just words , but what he did to apex was proof it can be done.

By breaking a bike lock I don't proof that I can crack a safe.

[LiQio]

[...]
Skeptical is fine, but if you read there forum they said they would figure it out themselves, but only after he brought it up, they would have not even know to look for it.
[...]

Jones said "Doubling the staking power is interesting, I'll do some more thinking and try to figure this out for myself, my bounty is 0 though Smiley"

1. He is not "they", he is Jones and Jones obviously likes to dig deeper (I'd like to remind you that NXT is decentralized)
2. And that does hardly have an influence on a possible bounty if CynicSOB found a real flaw and gives proof.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Just to show you are not as smart as you think you are Come-from-Beyond
That Post did not come from me, so you insulted my IQ , but was proof yours is lacking,
since I did not send you a post!

Oh, you have come back to edit your "last" post? I bet you don't know what "integrity" is...

[Daedelus]

If you choose to troll in this way, you have to affect an air of indifference to maintain any credibility in your baseless claims. Unfortunately,  you failed as it painfully obvious you are desperate for "Nxt=Welchers" to be seen as the truth

I am waiting for the modified client tests. If proven, I have never seen a bounty not be paid in this situation.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Editing the Last Post is still the last Post ,Come-from-Beyond.

It's a novel trick! Guys from the future are not that bad as I judged looking at you. 

[achimsmile]

want to pull more words from a dictionary.

Yes!

Welcher = someone who refuses to pay his or her debts after a bet

[Daedelus]

The desperation is palpable...  

Come on Cynic, prove your theories and let us pay you for them 

[cynicSOB]

with 10 confirms, the chance of a person with 20% staking power forging 10 consecutive blocks would be (0.2)^10 would take over a million blocks to happen.

Not (0.2)^10. Look at bitcoin's original paper: if I mine my own private chain the chances are much higher.
20% with 11 confirms gives a probability of 0.1%
So, 1 in 1000.
1000 NXT blocks is about 10hs one double spend every 10 hs
EDIT: 1000 NXT blocks is about 30hs, one double spend every 30 hs

I'm not asking to be paid in advance: we haven't discussed the terms yet (escrow or not? show code to everyone or just devs? etc), I just want to know how much would I get so I can decide if it's worth the effort or not.

There are two different attacks, that might or might not be combined.

1) Double spending with only small % of the supply

This is a private chain attack. This is by design and it applies to all POS implementations.
I've read some people say that NXTs are like simulated POW mining rigs. The analogy works for many situations so think of it like this: coins that are not forging are like mining rigs that are not powered on - useless. So the total network hashrate that I need to beat it not the total supply: it's only the total amount of coins that is actively forging at the specific time of the attack.
Now if NXT coins work like simulated POW miners you can read Satoshi's original Bitcoin paper and see how to calculate the probability of a double spend with only a few % of the network's hashrate. That % of the network's hashrate translates to a % of the actively forging coins (NOT THE TOTAL SUPPLY).
Good news is this can be mitigated by waiting for more confirmations. Bad news is it cannot be really completely fixed. Some say "transparent forging" or "economic clustering" can fix this, but I say they can't because they would open new attack vectors.

I can demonstrate this With 2M testnet (can be leased) or 50M mainnet (can be leased too), but I need to modify the client first.

2) Staking weight inflation

I can exploit how NXT works so I will forge more often than I should. I could make 1M NXT forge as often as 2M should. This might allow a 51% attack with only 25%.
I can demonstrate this against others in testnet: make an account with 206K and have it forge. My 206K account with my secret sauce will forge more blocks in the same time (we should let it run for a few days to make sure there is an edge and it's not just luck). I still need to modify the client first and until I test it in practice I don't know exactly how much will the advantage be. Estimations are that I can double my weight.
This can be fixed, and I would give the code used to attack and the idea on how to fix it.

[iGotSpots]

This thread is an example of someone who thinks they understand something a lot more than they actually do

[Come-from-Beyond]

I can exploit how NXT works so I will forge more often than I should. I could make 1M NXT forge as often as 2M should.

This is a well-known stake vs computations trade-off. Effective stake asymptotically approaches 200% if burned electricity approaches infinity.

[G2M]

I can exploit how NXT works so I will forge more often than I should. I could make 1M NXT forge as often as 2M should.

This is a well-known stake vs computations trade-off. Effective stake asymptotically approaches 200% if burned electricity approaches infinity.

Curious, is the number of computations capped in the network, or potentially infinite as well? Can multiple stakers compete for this 200%?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Bad news is it cannot be really completely fixed. Some say "transparent forging" or "economic clustering" can fix this, but I say they can't because they would open new attack vectors.

By its very definition activated "Economic clustering" can't open new attack vectors in technical domain. Socioengineering attacks - yes, political attacks - maybe, but technical ones - unbelievable.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Curious, is the number of computations capped in the network, or potentially infinite as well? Can multiple stakers compete for this 200%?

If multiple stakers compete for 200% then the quotient is lowered from 200% to, say, 180%. If all the stakers compete then it's back to 100%.