[GLBSE] BFLS.RIG - BFL Hardware mining & Sales

[Inaba]

If you haven't already, you may want to visit GLBSE and put your name in to release the info for the asserts to me. 

If you don't do this, I'm not sure I will be able to verify the number of shares you are holding of BFLS and BFLS.RIG.  I am not recommending you do this, because who knows what they will do with that information, but I've done it and hopefully we'll get some sort of resolution soon.

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[Rino]

What about those who cannot remember exact number of shares ? Would "a few" do ? And why do you even need to confirm emails and addresses sent to you by glbse ?

[Inaba]

As soon as GLBSE releases the asset info, it won't matter.  I requested the info in case GLBSE doesn't come through.  Supposedly they are suppose to be releasing it.

I will also need the BTC address to send weekly payments to, which I don't think will be included in the GLBSE data.

I have the script mostly done to automate the weekly payments, so it shouldn't be much of a transition once I have the data.  As a side note, I will be selling more stake in the upcoming ASIC hardware, if anyone is interested in a large chunk purchase, I would potentially be interested in that.  However, I don't want to sell a bunch of small chunks, as it's just too much hassle, so minimum order would be at least 100 shares.  I haven't decided how much, if any, I am going to sell on the ASIC rigs yet.

[server]

Josh, I know you're busy with everything you do over at the Butterfly Labs company but don't you feel
the need to inform your shareholders of the BFLS & BLFS.RIG company about your actions against GLBSE/Nefario ?

Another month passed and all we know is that you wrote one mail to Nefario.

I do not need to remind you that we bought shares from you and you're responsable.

 

[Inaba]

There is nothing I can do until GLBSE gives me the information.  I'm not sure what updates you want: nothing has changes as of yet thus no updates.  If something happens in that sphere, I will be here providing an update.

[server]

There is nothing I can do until GLBSE gives me the information.  I'm not sure what updates you want: nothing has changes as of yet thus no updates.  If something happens in that sphere, I will be here providing an update.

I would like to know for example what steps you took to get the information you need. Besides asking Nef friendly in an email...

I bought shares from you and you're the one that refuses to pay dividend.

You know the number of shares I bought from you. I have screenshots and glbse csv backup data.

We had contact before IPO and I paid with BTC and $ to your bankaccount, after this you transfered the shares to my account.

 

[toffoo]

We had contact before IPO and I paid with BTC and $ to your bankaccount, after this you transfered the shares to my account.

How would he know that you didn't later sell them?

[server]

We had contact before IPO and I paid with BTC and $ to your bankaccount, after this you transfered the shares to my account.

How would he know that you didn't later sell them?

Because I have complete account GLBSE history of every single transaction to proove this.

"account_history.csv" -> [type,timestamp,btc_amount,asset,quantity,account,address,fee_note]

Josh can check everything.

[Inaba]

I have been pursuing other avenues of acquiring the information, but so far they've been fruitless. 

I'm hoping that the data will come through, otherwise I may have to look at what data I have and if it matches up close enough with what I think it should be, just pay people out of that, but I really want to avoid that, because there will inevitably end up people complaining about something.

[Epoch]

We had contact before IPO and I paid with BTC and $ to your bankaccount, after this you transfered the shares to my account.

How would he know that you didn't later sell them?

Because I have complete account GLBSE history of every single transaction to proove this.

"account_history.csv" -> [type,timestamp,btc_amount,asset,quantity,account,address,fee_note]

Josh can check everything.

Server, most BFLS shareholders are in the same boat as you. I sympathize. But you need to realize that ANYONE can create or modify a .csv file to 'prove' anything they want (and I am not suggesting you have done so). I hate to say it, but the fact that you have a .csv file proves nothing about how many shares you currently have, or how many you may or may not have purchased or sold over time.

I purchased BFLS shares directly from Josh; he and I both know how many I purchased. I still have them all. But can I prove that I haven't sold them (or added to them) in the time since then? Not with a .csv file that anyone may have created or modified.

Unless that asset information comes directly from James, it is going to be difficult (but perhaps not impossible; at least in some cases) to prove who has what. A .csv file provided by the 'shareholder' is not proof of anything, I'm afraid.

[server]

I have been pursuing other avenues of acquiring the information, but so far they've been fruitless. 

I'm hoping that the data will come through, otherwise I may have to look at what data I have and if it matches up close enough with what I think it should be, just pay people out of that, but I really want to avoid that, because there will inevitably end up people complaining about something.

Understand you want to avoid this also because it involves a lot of work.

But I think it would be wise to come up with decent plan and timetable to avoid problems with your shareholders.

I can see this waiting game is working out fine for you and Nefario, but you play with other peoples money.

What did your lawyer say ?

 

[server]

Server, most BFLS shareholders are in the same boat as you. I sympathize. But you need to realize that ANYONE can create or modify a .csv file to 'prove' anything they want (and I am not suggesting you have done so). I hate to say it, but the fact that you have a .csv file proves nothing about how many shares you currently have, or how many you may or may not have purchased or sold over time.

I purchased pre-IPO BFLS shares directly from Josh; he and I both know how many I purchased. I still have them all. But can I prove that I haven't sold them (or added to them) in the time since then? Not with a .csv file that anyone may have created or modified.

Unless that asset information comes directly from James, it is going to be difficult (but perhaps not impossible; at least in some cases) to prove who has what. A .csv file provided by the 'shareholder' is not proof of anything, I'm afraid.

I'm not convinced Josh is trying very hard

[Epoch]

I'm hoping that the data will come through, otherwise I may have to look at what data I have and if it matches up close enough with what I think it should be, just pay people out of that, but I really want to avoid that, because there will inevitably end up people complaining about something.

Yes, that would surely be welcomed by the shareholders ... It may be difficult to sort out the honest shareholders from false claims: if BFLS has issued 15k shares, and you get 20k shares worth of claims, there is a problem since 5k of those claims are fraudulent.

There may be a way to support (if not outright prove) at least some peoples' holdings: in my case, for example, I have withdrawn the entire weekly dividend payment from BFLS to the same wallet address. Those transactions are in the blockchain. If you take those payments, divide by the dividend/share award from BFLS during that week, you will get the # of shares I owned at that time. In my case, I have always had the same # of shares so that calculation will return the same number week to week ... up until the very last GLBSE payment before closure.

So I think anyone in a similar situation (withdraws full amount weekly to same address; share calculation returns same # each week) can reasonably demonstrate how many shares they owned. Not 'proof', to be sure, but that's the best I can come up with at the moment. What do you think of this idea?

[Inaba]

That's a good idea Epoch!  I wonder how many people withdraw their full amount each week?  

Server:  I have actually been working quite a bit on an automated payment program for BFLS shares.  It is, for the most part, ready to go, I just need to get verified share information.  I have run a number of tests on it and it's been working fine through the built in bitcoind sendmany rpc call.  The only thing I need now is verified share data; I put that in the DB backing the program and everyone gets paid properly each week (I will probably increase that from weekly to every couple days actually, since it's all automated).

I have not been idle since GLBSE went down.

[Epoch]

That's a good idea Epoch!  I wonder how many people withdraw their full amount each week?  

Inaba, for those shareholders who can support their claimed holdings through blockchain transactions to your satisfaction, would you consider re-starting dividend payments to them ... or do you think it would be better to wait?

[Inaba]

Well, I would like to and I have no problem with it, but my one reservation is that if I start it for some and not for others, its' going to be some tough accounting to get everyone caught up if and when GLBSE does come through with the data or I institute a program without the GLBSE data.  I'm open to suggestions on how to handle that, though.

[server]

Server:  I have actually been working quite a bit on an automated payment program for BFLS shares.  It is, for the most part, ready to go, I just need to get verified share information.  I have run a number of tests on it and it's been working fine through the built in bitcoind sendmany rpc call.  The only thing I need now is verified share data; I put that in the DB backing the program and everyone gets paid properly each week (I will probably increase that from weekly to every couple days actually, since it's all automated).

I have not been idle since GLBSE went down.

Ok, hearing some information from you is better than weeks of silence.

But why don't you use a lawyer to push Nefario out of his comfort zone ?

I think: use one week of mining revenue for a lawyer -> sue Nef -> result

Or just use the money to pay Nefario -> get data -> make shareholders happy

[Inaba]

One week of mining revenue is less than $600 or so, if that.   Nefario is also in another country.  Basically, all the accumulated fund of BFLS right now would go towards paying a lawyer who may or may not be able to get anything done and even then, the money probably wouldn't be enough to actually get something done. 

[server]

One week of mining revenue is less than $600 or so, if that.   Nefario is also in another country.  Basically, all the accumulated fund of BFLS right now would go towards paying a lawyer who may or may not be able to get anything done and even then, the money probably wouldn't be enough to actually get something done.  

$600? BFLS.RIG weekly div was over 1000 bitcoins..

And the second option, we pay him ?

Maybe we can set an example that other asset issuers will follow and Nefario will be rewarded for all his hard work.

I know we paid allready for the full glbse experience...but sometimes paying a little extra can make a big difference.

[Epoch]

One week of mining revenue is less than $600 or so, if that.   Nefario is also in another country.  Basically, all the accumulated fund of BFLS right now would go towards paying a lawyer who may or may not be able to get anything done and even then, the money probably wouldn't be enough to actually get something done.

$600? BFLS.RIG weekly div was over 1000 bitcoins..
And the second option, we pay him ?
Maybe we can set an example that other asset issuers will follow and Nefario will be rewarded for all his hard work.
I know we paid allready for the full glbse experience...but sometimes paying a little extra can make a big difference.

I don't want to take this too far off-topic, but it is Nefario who is not fulfilling his obligations to GLBSE shareholders and issuers. You are suggesting to pay him for something he is obliged to do anyway (morally, if not legally). Pay him to release something that is ours to begin with, that he is holding hostage for unknown reasons? The phrase 'we do not negotiate with terrorists' comes to mind here ...

James has not paid out all BTC owed to GLBSE users, and he has not published the asset list to the issuers. I hesitate to use the word 'criminal', but at the very least he is acting in bad faith.

So my view is that until he meets his outstanding obligations to GLBSE shareholders and issuers, paying out all BTC and publishing the asset list, I'm not inclined to pay him anything. Especially not with BFLS user funds that Inaba is holding for us.

If James comes clean in the next few weeks/months, everything will be fine. If not, the time for waiting will be over. Inaba mentioned that, as a last resort, he may have to look at the data he has on hand and figure out who has what and start payments again. I think it is too early for that step, but it may come to that.

We should continue to wait and see how the Nefario saga continues to unfold.