Bitcoin Ponzi scheme or not

[flipstyle]

Not a Ponzi scheme.  Just a technology majority used by scammers and fraudsters solely because of its anonymity and transparency.  Big difference, but the end result is essentially the same.

[Cranky4u]

No more than the fiat system...

[pumawolf]

to me its just a  giant atm  machine  that  planet earth chooses to use or not. even if  u get in late and get dumped on,ur coin still has value, it can still do good shit.

[zooyaa]

Guys please keep the conversation coming. I really want to know what everyone think about bitcoin.  Also, username (mayax) you owe me 2 bitcoins for wasting my time reading two stupid articles.

For the rest of you guys THANK YOU and KEEP the conversation coming. Love you ALL

12P1pvUj1biaGGEGVURqBb8bJNdk7a4zmJ

[HYPERfuture]

Not a Ponzi scheme.  Just a technology majority used by scammers and fraudsters solely because of its anonymity and transparency.  Big difference, but the end result is essentially the same.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Also you are saying scammers use bitcoin because of its transparency? That makes zero sense. In raw dollar figures something like 99% of scams, frauds and ponzis are in fiat. I saw on the news the other day a forex company disappeared with 10 billion USD of funds. That is more than the worth of ALL bitcoins put together.

So much misinformation around the forums these days

[Bit_Happy]

I want to know if anybody in the Bitcoin community think that Bitcoin is a big ponzi scheme like Bernie Madoff. If so please vote Yes or No. Also, please explain why you think that.

No!
Not a Ponzi, but we do struggle with the issue of "huge riches for the early whales" and people discussing the need for "new money" to come in soon.

[flipstyle]

In the world of cybercrimes, it is a LOT more transparent and anonymous than using any other form of money transfer.  Fiat is a moot point in this discussion.  We're talking about cyber technology, and this is why bitcoin has become a safe haven for fraudsters and scammers alike.   Let's not live in a dream world here...about half the threads in the for sale section, large IPO'S, and loan sections are potential or already exposed scams.  Why?

Silkroad v1 and v2? lol

Because the scammer can just generate a new bitcoin address with the click of a mouse button, and get paid instantly and cash out without a single trace of information regarding their name, address, or location.    How many of the scammers on here have been caught and prosecuted? lol

And there is ZERO recourse for them scammed.  Sure, they can go on a witchhunt trying to piece together IP locations and make an educated guess...but the bitcoin blockchain isn't going to refund them.  And local authorities will laugh at them.  

It's basically a western union moneygram with much greater anonymity. At least with moneygrams, you still have to provide identification and legitimate documentation. With proxies or a shared computer, scammers can basically leave a non existent paper trail with bitcoin.


And that includes people that we trust the most (exchanges).  So basically, if you can't trust exchanges or a fellow peer on a forum (because you don't even really know who they are)...what good is bitcoin?

At least with a local bank you can choose which ones are FDIC insured and backed by the government so you can get your money back in the event of a heist.

Not a Ponzi scheme.  Just a technology majority used by scammers and fraudsters solely because of its anonymity and transparency.  Big difference, but the end result is essentially the same.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Also you are saying scammers use bitcoin because of its transparency? That makes zero sense. In raw dollar figures something like 99% of scams, frauds and ponzis are in fiat. I saw on the news the other day a forex company disappeared with 10 billion USD of funds. That is more than the worth of ALL bitcoins put together.

So much misinformation around the forums these days

[HYPERfuture]

In the world of cybercrimes, it is a LOT more transparent and anonymous than using any other form of money transfer.  Fiat is a moot point in this discussion.  We're talking about cyber technology, and this is why bitcoin has become a safe haven for fraudsters and scammers alike.   Let's not live in a dream world here...about half the threads in the for sale section, large IPO'S, and loan sections are potential or already exposed scams.  Why?

Because the scammer can just generate a new bitcoin address with the click of a mouse button, and get paid instantly and cash out without a single trace of information regarding their name, address, or location.    How many of the scammers on here have been caught and prosecuted? lol

And there is ZERO recourse for them scammed.  Sure, they can go on a witchhunt trying to piece together IP locations and make an educated guess...but the bitcoin blockchain isn't going to refund them.  And local authorities will laugh at them.  

It's basically a western union moneygram with much greater anonymity. At least with moneygrams, you still have to provide identification and legitimate documentation. With proxies or a shared computer, scammers can basically leave a non existent paper trail with bitcoin.


And that includes people that we trust the most (exchanges).  So basically, if you can't trust exchanges or a fellow peer on a forum (because you don't even really know who they are)...what good is bitcoin?

At least with a local bank you can choose which ones are FDIC insured and backed by the government so you can get your money back in the event of a heist.

Not a Ponzi scheme.  Just a technology majority used by scammers and fraudsters solely because of its anonymity and transparency.  Big difference, but the end result is essentially the same.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Also you are saying scammers use bitcoin because of its transparency? That makes zero sense. In raw dollar figures something like 99% of scams, frauds and ponzis are in fiat. I saw on the news the other day a forex company disappeared with 10 billion USD of funds. That is more than the worth of ALL bitcoins put together.

So much misinformation around the forums these days

Fiat isn't a moot point you said most scammers use bitcoin and I just explained to you that most scams are in fiat. And you're on this forum why?

[flipstyle]

In the world of cybercrimes, it is a LOT more transparent and anonymous than using any other form of money transfer.  Fiat is a moot point in this discussion.  We're talking about cyber technology, and this is why bitcoin has become a safe haven for fraudsters and scammers alike.   Let's not live in a dream world here...about half the threads in the for sale section, large IPO'S, and loan sections are potential or already exposed scams.  Why?

Because the scammer can just generate a new bitcoin address with the click of a mouse button, and get paid instantly and cash out without a single trace of information regarding their name, address, or location.    How many of the scammers on here have been caught and prosecuted? lol

And there is ZERO recourse for them scammed.  Sure, they can go on a witchhunt trying to piece together IP locations and make an educated guess...but the bitcoin blockchain isn't going to refund them.  And local authorities will laugh at them.  

It's basically a western union moneygram with much greater anonymity. At least with moneygrams, you still have to provide identification and legitimate documentation. With proxies or a shared computer, scammers can basically leave a non existent paper trail with bitcoin.


And that includes people that we trust the most (exchanges).  So basically, if you can't trust exchanges or a fellow peer on a forum (because you don't even really know who they are)...what good is bitcoin?

At least with a local bank you can choose which ones are FDIC insured and backed by the government so you can get your money back in the event of a heist.

Not a Ponzi scheme.  Just a technology majority used by scammers and fraudsters solely because of its anonymity and transparency.  Big difference, but the end result is essentially the same.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Also you are saying scammers use bitcoin because of its transparency? That makes zero sense. In raw dollar figures something like 99% of scams, frauds and ponzis are in fiat. I saw on the news the other day a forex company disappeared with 10 billion USD of funds. That is more than the worth of ALL bitcoins put together.

So much misinformation around the forums these days

Fiat isn't a moot point you said most scammers use bitcoin and I just explained to you that most scams are in fiat. And you're on this forum why?

Was your counterpoint supposed to be some refreshing revelation? Of course fiat would be first, because it's also the most widely used and accepted form of payment worldwide.   Again, I'm referring to cyber crimes...or are we not on an internet forum?  I'd also go on to argue it's probably one of the most rampant forms of payment used in scams on a percentage basis (based on how many are out in circulation) of any other cyber payment used, for those same points I noted earlier.


I'm on here for the same reason you are.  To share ideas/discuss.  Oh, I forgot.  Anyone against your 'agenda' isn't welcome, amirite?  Nothing like a pump shiller dictatorship.

[HYPERfuture]

In the world of cybercrimes, it is a LOT more transparent and anonymous than using any other form of money transfer.  Fiat is a moot point in this discussion.  We're talking about cyber technology, and this is why bitcoin has become a safe haven for fraudsters and scammers alike.   Let's not live in a dream world here...about half the threads in the for sale section, large IPO'S, and loan sections are potential or already exposed scams.  Why?

Because the scammer can just generate a new bitcoin address with the click of a mouse button, and get paid instantly and cash out without a single trace of information regarding their name, address, or location.    How many of the scammers on here have been caught and prosecuted? lol

And there is ZERO recourse for them scammed.  Sure, they can go on a witchhunt trying to piece together IP locations and make an educated guess...but the bitcoin blockchain isn't going to refund them.  And local authorities will laugh at them.  

It's basically a western union moneygram with much greater anonymity. At least with moneygrams, you still have to provide identification and legitimate documentation. With proxies or a shared computer, scammers can basically leave a non existent paper trail with bitcoin.


And that includes people that we trust the most (exchanges).  So basically, if you can't trust exchanges or a fellow peer on a forum (because you don't even really know who they are)...what good is bitcoin?

At least with a local bank you can choose which ones are FDIC insured and backed by the government so you can get your money back in the event of a heist.

Not a Ponzi scheme.  Just a technology majority used by scammers and fraudsters solely because of its anonymity and transparency.  Big difference, but the end result is essentially the same.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Also you are saying scammers use bitcoin because of its transparency? That makes zero sense. In raw dollar figures something like 99% of scams, frauds and ponzis are in fiat. I saw on the news the other day a forex company disappeared with 10 billion USD of funds. That is more than the worth of ALL bitcoins put together.

So much misinformation around the forums these days

Fiat isn't a moot point you said most scammers use bitcoin and I just explained to you that most scams are in fiat. And you're on this forum why?

Was your counterpoint supposed to be some refreshing revelation? Of course fiat would be first, because it's also the most widely used and accepted form of payment worldwide.   Again, I'm referring to cyber crimes...or are we not on an internet forum?  I'd also go on to argue it's probably one of the most rampant forms of payment used in scams on a percentage basis (based on how many are out in circulation) of any other cyber payment used, for those same points I noted earlier.


I'm on here for the same reason you are.  To share ideas/discuss.  Oh, I forgot.  Anyone against your 'agenda' isn't welcome, amirite?  Nothing like a pump shiller dictatorship.

Shelter companies and offshore bank accounts would have way more money in them from the proceeds of cybercrime than the worth of all the bitcoin put together. I can see by a quick glance at your post history you are here to tell everyone how bad bitcoin is. Have fun with that

[flipstyle]

In the world of cybercrimes, it is a LOT more transparent and anonymous than using any other form of money transfer.  Fiat is a moot point in this discussion.  We're talking about cyber technology, and this is why bitcoin has become a safe haven for fraudsters and scammers alike.   Let's not live in a dream world here...about half the threads in the for sale section, large IPO'S, and loan sections are potential or already exposed scams.  Why?

Because the scammer can just generate a new bitcoin address with the click of a mouse button, and get paid instantly and cash out without a single trace of information regarding their name, address, or location.    How many of the scammers on here have been caught and prosecuted? lol

And there is ZERO recourse for them scammed.  Sure, they can go on a witchhunt trying to piece together IP locations and make an educated guess...but the bitcoin blockchain isn't going to refund them.  And local authorities will laugh at them.  

It's basically a western union moneygram with much greater anonymity. At least with moneygrams, you still have to provide identification and legitimate documentation. With proxies or a shared computer, scammers can basically leave a non existent paper trail with bitcoin.


And that includes people that we trust the most (exchanges).  So basically, if you can't trust exchanges or a fellow peer on a forum (because you don't even really know who they are)...what good is bitcoin?

At least with a local bank you can choose which ones are FDIC insured and backed by the government so you can get your money back in the event of a heist.

Not a Ponzi scheme.  Just a technology majority used by scammers and fraudsters solely because of its anonymity and transparency.  Big difference, but the end result is essentially the same.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Also you are saying scammers use bitcoin because of its transparency? That makes zero sense. In raw dollar figures something like 99% of scams, frauds and ponzis are in fiat. I saw on the news the other day a forex company disappeared with 10 billion USD of funds. That is more than the worth of ALL bitcoins put together.

So much misinformation around the forums these days

Fiat isn't a moot point you said most scammers use bitcoin and I just explained to you that most scams are in fiat. And you're on this forum why?

Was your counterpoint supposed to be some refreshing revelation? Of course fiat would be first, because it's also the most widely used and accepted form of payment worldwide.   Again, I'm referring to cyber crimes...or are we not on an internet forum?  I'd also go on to argue it's probably one of the most rampant forms of payment used in scams on a percentage basis (based on how many are out in circulation) of any other cyber payment used, for those same points I noted earlier.


I'm on here for the same reason you are.  To share ideas/discuss.  Oh, I forgot.  Anyone against your 'agenda' isn't welcome, amirite?  Nothing like a pump shiller dictatorship.

Shelter companies and offshore bank accounts would have way more money in them from the proceeds of cybercrime than the worth of all the bitcoin put together. I can see by a quick glance at your post history you are here to tell everyone how bad bitcoin is. Have fun with that

I'm actually here to open eyes from all the blind one-sided shilling and nonsensical posts that's rampant on this forum. 

BTW, I still have some BTC holdings. 

But coolstorybro.  Your agenda is pretty clear from your sig.  Self promotion is so hawt right now.

[42t]

Voted Yes.

I like poisoning the results of poorly thought out and researched polls.

lol

[mayax]

Bitcoin is like a ponzi scheme.
No new comers, the price is falling ,right?

More new comers, the price is raising  same for HYIPs. they last as long there are new comers.
Yes, the Bitcoin system itself can last but useless if nobody is using it.
When there will not be any new fouls to "invest" in Bitcoin, the system will collapse.
The exchangers will not be interested to accept and then....death

Now, Bitcoin is used for cyber crimes and speculative investment(short period of time).

[HYPERfuture]

Bitcoin is like a ponzi scheme.
No new comers, the price is falling ,right?

More new comers, the price is raising  same for HYIPs. they last as long there are new comers.
yes, the Bitcoin system itself can last but useless if nobody is using it.

Now, Bitcoin is used for cyber crimes and speculative investment(short period of time).

Seriously are you guys getting paid for this or something? I don't see why people would waste their life on a forum just to trash talk something all day.

There more people using bitcoin than ever before and the price of a bitcoin is irrelevant when it comes to the technology.

[cryptocult live]

ponzi because once the buying stops we see bearmarkets like this

[HYPERfuture]

ponzi because once the buying stops we see bearmarkets like this

So by your reasoning the USD is a ponzi too? Forex markets work the same way.

[cryptocult live]

ponzi because once the buying stops we see bearmarkets like this

So by your reasoning the USD is a ponzi too? Forex markets work the same way.

except other commodities don't suffer such high inflation while being sold as hedge against inflation and equivalent to gold. I think the marketing for btc is fraudulent/missleading so yes it's a ponzi.

[Bitcoinpro]

Ponzi refers to a scheme OP

so your post is so effectively

painting itself as rubbish

because Bitcoin is an idea

[flipstyle]

Bitcoin is like a ponzi scheme.
No new comers, the price is falling ,right?

More new comers, the price is raising  same for HYIPs. they last as long there are new comers.
yes, the Bitcoin system itself can last but useless if nobody is using it.

Now, Bitcoin is used for cyber crimes and speculative investment(short period of time).

Seriously are you guys getting paid for this or something? I don't see why people would waste their life on a forum just to trash talk something all day.

There more people using bitcoin than ever before and the price of a bitcoin is irrelevant when it comes to the technology.

You seem vexed.

[LiteCoinGuy]

What is this crap? The whole forum has been over this many times, it is not a ponzi scheme. This honestly just seems like a troll account to ruffle some feathers.

only Paybase and Paycoin is a Ponzi (see your sig  ! )

-------

Wikipedia defines a ponzi scheme in the following way:

"A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the operator. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme."

Now let's see if that fits bitcoin:
-Does bitcoin have central authority? No.
-Does bitcoin pay returns to its investors? No.
-Does bitcoin require an ever increasing flow of money to sustain it? No.

Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme. It's a true innovation in computer science and solves a well known problem called the Byzantine Generals problem.

It's a new type of monetary system based on mathematics and rare numbers. That's why it's a game changer. That's why we see 5-10 million investments to bitcoin startups every week. It has nothing to do with a Ponzi scheme.

---------

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/world-bank-bitcoin-not-ponzi-scheme/