Miners are killing bitcoin

[MarketNeutral]

If 1 BTC = 5 USD = NO miner

I will mine, and so will others. In fact, I've never sold a single bitcoin that I've mined, and I've been mining since 2010.

Low difficulty? No problem. Open the Bitcoin console and type "setgenerate true" and keep the hashes coming.

People are panicking now, because the price is falling. When price rises again, people will feel differently.

Mining isn't going away.

you will be on loss. I am not sure why someone would do that.

One miner alone can earn up to 1-2 BTC per month

calculate yourself :    http://blockchained.com/profit/index.php

It's only a loss if I sell, and I have never sold. I mine because I like to mine.

maybe you are an eccentric millionaire and you want to have some "fun" (i am not sure where it is the fun to mine..in the end, it's your choice) BUT 99% from miners are doing it for pure profit. They mine, the mining has a cost and they sell for a price.

If they get a lower amount than the costs, that means bankrupt.

You're right.

(And you're not the first person to call me "an eccentric millionaire." haha.)

As you said, 99% of people mine for profit. This is probably true.


Who are the rest? I don't know. I suspect there are a few people located in countries with currency and capital controls who mine as means of diversifying their assets. They can't buy bitcoins at a good rate or dollars at a good rate or anything at a good rate except for the state-imposed currency, but they can buy mining equipment.

There are also probably a few people who use ill-gotten money to purchase mining equipment as a means to launder their cash, whereby they create fresh bitcoins.

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[mayax]

If 1 BTC = 5 USD = NO miner

I will mine, and so will others. In fact, I've never sold a single bitcoin that I've mined, and I've been mining since 2010.

Low difficulty? No problem. Open the Bitcoin console and type "setgenerate true" and keep the hashes coming.

People are panicking now, because the price is falling. When price rises again, people will feel differently.

Mining isn't going away.

you will be on loss. I am not sure why someone would do that.

One miner alone can earn up to 1-2 BTC per month

calculate yourself :    http://blockchained.com/profit/index.php

It's only a loss if I sell, and I have never sold. I mine because I like to mine.

maybe you are an eccentric millionaire and you want to have some "fun" (i am not sure where it is the fun to mine..in the end, it's your choice) BUT 99% from miners are doing it for pure profit. They mine, the mining has a cost and they sell for a price.

If they get a lower amount than the costs, that means bankrupt.

You're right.

(And you're not the first person to call me "an eccentric millionaire." haha.)

As you said, 99% of people mine for profit. This is probably true.


Who are the rest? I don't know. I suspect there are a few people located in countries with currency and capital controls who mine as means of diversifying their assets. They can't buy bitcoins at a good rate or dollars at a good rate or anything at a good rate except for the state-imposed currency, but they can buy mining equipment.

There are also probably a few people who use ill-gotten money to purchase mining equipment as a means to launder their cash, whereby they create fresh bitcoins.

you said "investment". BTC was 1000 USD a year ago. Normally you should have sold your BTC at that time.

This is an investment, the action of investing money for profit.

 You cannot launder cash if you buy mining hardware which will be useless in 6-9 months it's like you trow the money away and the laundering assume that you will recover the these money.

 There are much better ways to real launder the cash.

[manselr]

No. False design. Inflation. Miners can't change the number of coins they mine, not their fault at all.

You are a god damn fool.

These corporations are setting up shop pumping out more bitcoin than they even have a demand for.

He's no fool. People need to eat and will secure their well being, mining under a crashing price is not on their interests. In any case, if you call the greed card, Satoshi should have predict this scenario, hence design flaw.

Let's have hope tho, the war ends at 0.

[Chris_Sabian]

25 bitcoins are created every 10 minutes regardless of the number of miners on the network.

How exactly are miners / mining killing bitcoin?

[rax]

25 bitcoins are created every 10 minutes regardless of the number of miners on the network.

How exactly are miners / mining killing bitcoin?

Well, as far as I understand the biggest miners could actually "kill" the blockchain if most of them shut down their operations at the same time. Especially if they did it shortly after a difficulty update.

[the joint]

I'm shocked by some of posts in this thread.

Let's look at a few examples:

No. False design. Inflation. Miners can't change the number of coins they mine, not their fault at all.

Having a predictable supply of money is good.  Having the ability to inflate the money supply if necessary is also good.  Inflating the money supply irresponsibly is bad, but inflation itself needn't be.  

These corporations are setting up shop pumping out more bitcoin than they even have a demand for.

Lmao, what?  Dunce cap?

Inflation is the biggest factor at the moment. It takes a ton of new money each day to keep prices at the current level.

Not even close.  Inflation didn't stop the ridiculous rally to >$1,100, did it?

Bitcoins design is faulty from economic standpoint. Logical mistakes in it. Inflation kills it.

Mentioned above, the ability to inflate a currency when necessary is extremely beneficial.  Only irresponsible inflation is bad.

The point is,THEY ARE PRODUCING BITCOIN AT A ALARMING RATE.

Hilariously stupid comment.

I think this is the biggest problem facing bitcoin right now.  Selling pressure + non profitable mining is not a good situation in this very pivotal time.

There's really nothing useful or informative about this assumption.  We already know that mining tends towards an equilibrium between difficulty and price.  Since we've been near equilibrium for some time now, we can expect the difficulty to drop if the price continues to drop (which it will, and it already has).

I'll stop there.   Those were just from the first page, and I didn't even make it all the way down.  Based on this, I'm almost just tempted to say people in general are too stupid to form their own economy, at least democratically.  Democracy --> mediocrity.

[the joint]

25 bitcoins are created every 10 minutes regardless of the number of miners on the network.

How exactly are miners / mining killing bitcoin?

Well, as far as I understand the biggest miners could actually "kill" the blockchain if most of them shut down their operations at the same time.

Only to the extent that it would take longer to reach the next difficulty adjustment.  Yes, mining is tending towards centralization, but it's in no way centralized enough such that transactions would never confirm if the big miners called it quits.

[runningfree]

If everyone is not careful, fear will kill Bitcoin!

[rax]

25 bitcoins are created every 10 minutes regardless of the number of miners on the network.

How exactly are miners / mining killing bitcoin?

Well, as far as I understand the biggest miners could actually "kill" the blockchain if most of them shut down their operations at the same time.

Only to the extent that it would take longer to reach the next difficulty adjustment.  Yes, mining is tending towards centralization, but it's in no way centralized enough such that transactions would never confirm if the big miners called it quits.

This I don't know. What I can actually see is the ridiculous explosion of hashing power deployed throughout 2014 (hover your mouse over the flat line, note that pre-2014 the trend was already exponential).

As I said I don't know how many oversized mining operations are out there. If there are just 6-7 of these and they are 90% responsible for this last year's difficulty spike Bitcoin is screwed, as stopping them would mean that mining a new block would take hours instead of 10 minutes. And mining 2016 new blocks to reach the next difficulty readjustment would take forever. This would mean game over, because in this scenario transaction confirmation would take days or weeks, thus rendering the coin unusable. If there are tens of thousands of operations like these I guess Bitcoin's future is safer and could still ultimately prevail.

At any rate, these big miners need to dump their fresh coins to cover their operational costs, thus pushing the price further down and slashing their margins even more. So we know they will be shutting down soon. I believe we're about to see how it all pans out  

[LordSonjai]

Bitcoin is fine. Miners help give it value.

You noobs need to get used to price fluctuations.

I'm sorry you all bought higher than the current spot price, and therefore cannot sell your bitcoins for a profit, but everyone here knows Bitcoin, as an investment, is high risk. You ALL knew that.

Many people are doing just fine with the current price. Sure, a higher price would be nicer, but some of us bought BTC at $5 and $10 and $20 each. Or GPU mined a ton of bitcoins.

The noobs are panicking and making a noise about their losses. Ok. Then maybe you're not ready for bitcoin.

Here's a novel suggestion, use Bitcoin to buy and sell things. That's what a lot of us do. Ask people if they accept bitcoin or are willing to accept it. Don't just camp out on the exchanges all day. Use it for goods and services. Satoshi gave us this gift of bitcoin. It's amazing technology. Use it.

Nah to hell with that,unless its drugs I'm not buying anything with my bitcoin I'm trying to cash out.

[rax]

Nah to hell with that,unless its drugs I'm not buying anything with my bitcoin I'm trying to cash out.

Is this you?   Watch out for these wild mood swings.

[LordSonjai]

If you are going to attack me you should at least educate me,you keep redirecting.

I know for sure small miners are not producing a lot of bitcoin it has already been said a few times in this thread,so I don't see a argument.
Wait,I see the argument it is the argument you make up just to argue. Petty.

Im not talking about the small miners,I'm talking about the corporations with hangers filled with these huge towers rigs.
All they are doing is producing as much bitcoin as they possibly can even if they aren't going to sell all of them they don't give a fuck.

It has also said here that they manipulate price,so how am I wrong?

No miners no bitcoin,no shit.

But these miners I am talking about are like the bitcoin hiv.

[LordSonjai]

Nah to hell with that,unless its drugs I'm not buying anything with my bitcoin I'm trying to cash out.

Is this you?  Watch out of these wild mood swings.

Stop it,you are going to make me blush.

😊

[Razick]

These corporations are setting up shop pumping out more bitcoin than they even have a demand for.

Just for our education and amusement, how much more bitcoin are they pumping out these days, than say in 2013?

So much more. Way more gigahashes worth of Bitcoin.

This is funny. I assume you are being sarcastic here, but the sad thing is not everyone understands that hash rate doesn't change how much Bitcoin is mined.

[cryptworld]

so do you think that the bitcoin halving next year will help this to be established?

[LordSonjai]

so do you think that the bitcoin halving next year will help this to be established?

I don't know ,since the "experts" have been wrong. So what the hell would I know,I just take a guess,just like the "experts". You know,the guys that set up those elaborate graphs that all end up being wrong?

Anyway. Um. My guess is bitcoin will recover. I hate to say it but,you know,when I bought in at 350 I said to myself. "Bitcoin is in a downtrend why am I buying now?" Oh,my impulsive tendency got the best of me again. Anyway. Uh. Lets see,where were we? Yes the halving the halving.

I don't think it will even matter to be honest unless by that time we have a larger network of bitcoin adapters. So what if it halves ?Yes it will be more difficult to obtain/produce but so what if it has no use anymore right?

[rax]

so do you think that the bitcoin halving next year will help this to be established?

I don't know ,since the "experts" have been wrong. So what the hell would I know,I just take a guess,just like the "experts". You know,the guys that set up those elaborate graphs that all end up being wrong?

Anyway. Um. My guess is bitcoin will recover. I hate to say it but,you know,when I bought in at 350 I said to myself. "Bitcoin is in a downtrend why am I buying now?" Oh,my impulsive tendency got the best of me again. Anyway. Uh. Lets see,where were we? Yes the halving the halving.

I don't think it will even matter to be honest unless by that time we have a larger network of bitcoin adapters. So what if it halves ?Yes it will be more difficult to obtain/produce but so what if it has no use anymore right?

Dude, seriously... Shut up. Chill. Listen. And read up.

[saddampbuh]

so do you think that the bitcoin halving next year will help this to be established?

assuming all the mined coins get sold instead of needing 800k new $ daily to keep the price stable we will only need 400k, still looks pretty grim to me

[MarketNeutral]

I'm shocked by some of posts in this thread.

Let's look at a few examples:

No. False design. Inflation. Miners can't change the number of coins they mine, not their fault at all.

Having a predictable supply of money is good.  Having the ability to inflate the money supply if necessary is also good.  Inflating the money supply irresponsibly is bad, but inflation itself needn't be.  

These corporations are setting up shop pumping out more bitcoin than they even have a demand for.

Lmao, what?  Dunce cap?

Inflation is the biggest factor at the moment. It takes a ton of new money each day to keep prices at the current level.

Not even close.  Inflation didn't stop the ridiculous rally to >$1,100, did it?

Bitcoins design is faulty from economic standpoint. Logical mistakes in it. Inflation kills it.

Mentioned above, the ability to inflate a currency when necessary is extremely beneficial.  Only irresponsible inflation is bad.

The point is,THEY ARE PRODUCING BITCOIN AT A ALARMING RATE.

Hilariously stupid comment.

I think this is the biggest problem facing bitcoin right now.  Selling pressure + non profitable mining is not a good situation in this very pivotal time.

There's really nothing useful or informative about this assumption.  We already know that mining tends towards an equilibrium between difficulty and price.  Since we've been near equilibrium for some time now, we can expect the difficulty to drop if the price continues to drop (which it will, and it already has).

I'll stop there.   Those were just from the first page, and I didn't even make it all the way down.  Based on this, I'm almost just tempted to say people in general are too stupid to form their own economy, at least democratically.  Democracy --> mediocrity.

'the joint' knows what he's talking about. Listen to him.

[nwfella]

Far more than just mining killing BTC price atm.  You think the fella that stole 5.5 million worth of BTC from bitstamp gives a rat's ass what he sells at?  Or hashie.co, or any of the myriad other hack-jobs, HYIP ponzis and whatever other scams that are constantly going on in this space.