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Author Topic: [ANN] BTCDice.com - The Best Bitcoin Game in the World! - Better Payouts  (Read 10025 times)
BTCDice
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September 12, 2012, 08:56:20 AM
 #61

I'm performing update on bitcoind and site is offline. Will be on soon.

Update done. Back online.
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xblitz
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I see what you did there!


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September 12, 2012, 05:08:29 PM
 #62

I just bet 1 btc on this one:

less than 16000    1BTCDiceVit4ZoX62ksdLCbD3fsUww1hX6       24.4141%    4.064x    1.650%    98.35%    0.0010    50.0000    203.0000

which states it has a multiplier of 4.064x ..

and I only got back 3.996444 btc ...

if i do my calculations  1 x 4.064 = 4.064 - 0.0005 (txfee) = 4.0635  ..

is my math wrong?
BTCDice
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September 12, 2012, 08:42:46 PM
 #63

I just bet 1 btc on this one:

less than 16000    1BTCDiceVit4ZoX62ksdLCbD3fsUww1hX6       24.4141%    4.064x    1.650%    98.35%    0.0010    50.0000    203.0000

which states it has a multiplier of 4.064x ..

and I only got back 3.996444 btc ...

if i do my calculations  1 x 4.064 = 4.064 - 0.0005 (txfee) = 4.0635  ..

is my math wrong?

Minus the house percent.
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I see what you did there!


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September 12, 2012, 09:48:19 PM
 #64

I just bet 1 btc on this one:

less than 16000    1BTCDiceVit4ZoX62ksdLCbD3fsUww1hX6       24.4141%    4.064x    1.650%    98.35%    0.0010    50.0000    203.0000

which states it has a multiplier of 4.064x ..

and I only got back 3.996444 btc ...

if i do my calculations  1 x 4.064 = 4.064 - 0.0005 (txfee) = 4.0635  ..

is my math wrong?

Minus the house percent.

I thought the house percent already included in the multiplier?  can you explain the real calculation behind the payout?

seeing a 98.35% payout, I thought BTCDice had better payout than SatoshiDice ..
but the same bet at satoshidice:  1btc at the less than 16000 (24.4141%)  gave me 4.00219600 (which is 4.002696 - 0.0005 fee)
so SatoshiDice is actually giving me the multiplier displayed in the table minus txfee
see this one:
http://www.satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=51c6edd2e6ba5d459bf527912f77ce088bad85b305454417c4588b33a7f42257
yet on BTCDice this is what i got:
http://btcdice.com/details.html?q=38368


 
BTCDice
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September 13, 2012, 02:37:37 AM
 #65

I just bet 1 btc on this one:

less than 16000    1BTCDiceVit4ZoX62ksdLCbD3fsUww1hX6       24.4141%    4.064x    1.650%    98.35%    0.0010    50.0000    203.0000

which states it has a multiplier of 4.064x ..

and I only got back 3.996444 btc ...

if i do my calculations  1 x 4.064 = 4.064 - 0.0005 (txfee) = 4.0635  ..

is my math wrong?

Minus the house percent.

I thought the house percent already included in the multiplier?  can you explain the real calculation behind the payout?

seeing a 98.35% payout, I thought BTCDice had better payout than SatoshiDice ..
but the same bet at satoshidice:  1btc at the less than 16000 (24.4141%)  gave me 4.00219600 (which is 4.002696 - 0.0005 fee)
so SatoshiDice is actually giving me the multiplier displayed in the table minus txfee
see this one:
http://www.satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=51c6edd2e6ba5d459bf527912f77ce088bad85b305454417c4588b33a7f42257
yet on BTCDice this is what i got:
http://btcdice.com/details.html?q=38368

Multiplier is calculated by (65536 / Game Lessthan). Previously, that number was rounded down then truncated after 3rd digit, but now it is either rounded up before truncate, or simply truncated.

I take house percentage after multiplier is calculated as doing it other ways (ex. as part of multiplier) are inconsistent in results. Edit: To make clearer, it makes results inconsistent from game to game, or with largely different bet amount, and not always in favor of user.

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

I don't run satoshidice so I can't say how they do their backend maths, but I know payout (housecut, etc) is not consistent from game to game on their site.

Mine is: ((Bet * Multiplier) * (.9835)) - 0.0005
xblitz
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I see what you did there!


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September 13, 2012, 03:08:43 AM
 #66

Multiplier is calculated by (65536 / Game Lessthan). Previously, that number was rounded down then truncated after 3rd digit, but now it is either rounded up before truncate, or simply truncated.

I take house percentage after multiplier is calculated as doing it other ways (ex. as part of multiplier) are inconsistent in results. Edit: To make clearer, it makes results inconsistent from game to game, or with largely different bet amount, and not always in favor of user.

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

I don't run satoshidice so I can't say how they do their backend maths, but I know payout (housecut, etc) is not consistent from game to game on their site.

Mine is: ((Bet * Multiplier) * (.9835)) - 0.0005


Ah now i see that you have just fixed them to the right number..  so my math was good.. but seems you have just fixed it.. thank you!
BTCDice
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September 13, 2012, 03:41:33 AM
 #67

Multiplier is calculated by (65536 / Game Lessthan). Previously, that number was rounded down then truncated after 3rd digit, but now it is either rounded up before truncate, or simply truncated.

I take house percentage after multiplier is calculated as doing it other ways (ex. as part of multiplier) are inconsistent in results. Edit: To make clearer, it makes results inconsistent from game to game, or with largely different bet amount, and not always in favor of user.

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

I don't run satoshidice so I can't say how they do their backend maths, but I know payout (housecut, etc) is not consistent from game to game on their site.

Mine is: ((Bet * Multiplier) * (.9835)) - 0.0005


Ah now i see that you have just fixed them to the right number..  so my math was good.. but seems you have just fixed it.. thank you!

Yes, I changed rounding to be more favorable to the user (made it round up where it was rounding down) and changed calculation slightly.
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September 13, 2012, 05:00:31 AM
 #68

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

Your help page at http://btcdice.com/howitworks.html says:

If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier and that amount is sent back.

But that's not correct.  If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier, then the house edge is subtracted, and that amount is sent back.

It would be best if you showed the actual multiplier the user gets.  i.e. take the house edge off the prize multiplier before stating it.  That way people can compare your odds with SD's to easily see which is better odds.

For example, on "lessthan 16000", instead of saying the payout is "4.096x", calculate 4.096*(1-edge/100):

Code:
>>> 4.096 * (1-1.650/100)
4.028416

and state that the payout is 4.028x.

That way people can make a direct comparison with SD's quoted multiplier of 4.003x.

xblitz
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I see what you did there!


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September 13, 2012, 05:08:59 AM
 #69

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

Your help page at http://btcdice.com/howitworks.html says:

If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier and that amount is sent back.

But that's not correct.  If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier, then the house edge is subtracted, and that amount is sent back.

It would be best if you showed the actual multiplier the user gets.  i.e. take the house edge off the prize multiplier before stating it.  That way people can compare your odds with SD's to easily see which is better odds.

For example, on "lessthan 16000", instead of saying the payout is "4.096x", calculate 4.096*(1-edge/100):

Code:
>>> 4.096 * (1-1.650/100)
4.028416

and state that the payout is 4.028x.

That way people can make a direct comparison with SD's quoted multiplier of 4.003x.

Yeah I think your suggestion is the best thing to do....  less confusion! Smiley
BTCDice
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September 13, 2012, 11:01:32 AM
 #70

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

Your help page at http://btcdice.com/howitworks.html says:

If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier and that amount is sent back.

But that's not correct.  If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier, then the house edge is subtracted, and that amount is sent back.

It would be best if you showed the actual multiplier the user gets.  i.e. take the house edge off the prize multiplier before stating it.  That way people can compare your odds with SD's to easily see which is better odds.

For example, on "lessthan 16000", instead of saying the payout is "4.096x", calculate 4.096*(1-edge/100):

Code:
>>> 4.096 * (1-1.650/100)
4.028416

and state that the payout is 4.028x.

That way people can make a direct comparison with SD's quoted multiplier of 4.003x.

Yeah I think your suggestion is the best thing to do....  less confusion! Smiley


I will update help page, but not going to change math to something inconsistent.
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I see what you did there!


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September 13, 2012, 12:17:59 PM
 #71

no don't change the math , it's perfect,  hes talking about how the "effective" payout multiplier is written on the game table  ...

so on your "Less than 32768, 50%"  pays 2x minus house percent [ 2 * 0.9835 = 1.967 ]  so in the table you should write 1.967x multiplier
but for the ones that the payout minus house percent give a long decimal number , still use the correct math , but round up the displayed number on the table page.

looks at this comparison table

odd/65536Even multiplierEffective multiplierDisplayed multiplier
16553664454.65664454.656
23276832227.32832227.328
41638416113.66416113.664
881928056.8328056.832
1640964028.4164028.416
3220482014.2082014.208
6410241007.1041007.104
128512503.552503.552
256256251.776251.776
512128125.888125.888
100065.53664.45465664.455
150043.690666666742.96977066742.970
200032.76832.22732832.227
300021.845333333321.484885333321.485
400016.38416.11366416.114
600010.922666666710.742442666710.742
80008.1928.0568328.057
120005.461333333335.371221333335.371
160004.0964.0284164.028
240002.730666666672.685610666672.686
320002.0482.0142082.014
3276821.9671.967
480001.365333333331.342805333331.343

So for the page aesthetics you can display a rounded effective multiplier to 3 decimals so it looks nice.. but don't change the real math behind the calculation of the payout!

I hope this helps out Smiley
dooglus
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September 13, 2012, 04:30:45 PM
 #72

I will update help page, but not going to change math to something inconsistent.

The payout multipliers you're quoting aren't the payout multipliers you offer.

What you're doing would be like a casino saying "we pay out 38x on a single roulette number" (because that's what they would pay out if the house edge was 0%, but it isn't).

Then someone hits a single number and the casino pays out only 36x.

The player complains "you said 38x but I only got 36x", and you reply "you forgot the house edge!"

What really happens is the casino tells the player "we pay out 36x on single numbers".

That way it's clear what you're getting.

BTCDice
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September 14, 2012, 12:58:45 AM
 #73

I will update help page, but not going to change math to something inconsistent.

The payout multipliers you're quoting aren't the payout multipliers you offer.

What you're doing would be like a casino saying "we pay out 38x on a single roulette number" (because that's what they would pay out if the house edge was 0%, but it isn't).

Then someone hits a single number and the casino pays out only 36x.

The player complains "you said 38x but I only got 36x", and you reply "you forgot the house edge!"

What really happens is the casino tells the player "we pay out 36x on single numbers".

That way it's clear what you're getting.

I updated help page to reflect order of operation. The multiplier on the page is what the actual multiplier is.
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September 14, 2012, 06:42:58 AM
 #74

I updated help page to reflect order of operation. The multiplier on the page is what the actual multiplier is.

I give up.

BTCDice
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September 15, 2012, 04:34:27 AM
 #75

I updated help page to reflect order of operation. The multiplier on the page is what the actual multiplier is.

I give up.

Good. Fight you wont win is not worth fighting.  Grin
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September 18, 2012, 09:23:56 PM
 #76

Site down. I would like to get bitcoins back to my wallet.
BTCDice
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September 21, 2012, 11:12:42 PM
 #77

A switch died at the NOC and bets are not process while it is having replacement. It will be fixed very soon.
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September 22, 2012, 01:40:30 AM
 #78

Good. Fight you wont win is not worth fighting.  Grin

The only fight that seems to be occurring here is your fight against reality.

Dooglus is one of the sharpest people on here, and his point appears to be valid.  I don't think I can trust a site that operates the way you seem to be operating, and I am pretty sure other potential players here have reached the same conclusion.
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September 22, 2012, 07:11:36 AM
 #79

Good. Fight you wont win is not worth fighting.  Grin

The only fight that seems to be occurring here is your fight against reality.

Dooglus is one of the sharpest people on here, and his point appears to be valid.  I don't think I can trust a site that operates the way you seem to be operating, and I am pretty sure other potential players here have reached the same conclusion.

Indeed. I PMed BTCdice a whike back about the double commission he was charging compared with satoshidice and the false advertising of a seemingly better rate compared with satoshidice and after a short exchange where I provided similar evidence including matching bets from both BTCdice and satoshidice, and BTCdice stayed in denial and refused to accept my points.

I just stopped using them. Recommend others do too until they fix their payouts or at least accept what both Douglas and I are saying as the truth.

Can provide PM logs if anyone wants.

Will

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September 24, 2012, 06:45:28 AM
 #80

Good. Fight you wont win is not worth fighting.  Grin

The only fight that seems to be occurring here is your fight against reality.

Dooglus is one of the sharpest people on here, and his point appears to be valid.  I don't think I can trust a site that operates the way you seem to be operating, and I am pretty sure other potential players here have reached the same conclusion.

Indeed. I PMed BTCdice a whike back about the double commission he was charging compared with satoshidice and the false advertising of a seemingly better rate compared with satoshidice and after a short exchange where I provided similar evidence including matching bets from both BTCdice and satoshidice, and BTCdice stayed in denial and refused to accept my points.

I just stopped using them. Recommend others do too until they fix their payouts or at least accept what both Douglas and I are saying as the truth.

Can provide PM logs if anyone wants.

Will

Im afraid btcdice is no longer welcome on my list until they rectify their payouts.
It seems clear this confusion is to the advantage of the house and quite possibly done on purpose to mislead the player.
I shall update its listing tonight to "SCAM".

btcdice admin, if you decide to correct your payout listing please let me know.

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