BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!)

[edric]

BurtW was recently arrested. The indictment (located by Raize):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/248973784/Bitcoin-indictment

Is there anything we can do to help him? There's a site with a donation address, though I'm a little suspicious that the site might be fake. (The arrest itself is very likely real.)

 Why did they keep his money?  I have heard that the government charges property separately from the individual.  Was the money found guilty or what?

[edric]

The indictment says:

involved the transport and transmission of funds that were known to the defendant to have been derived from a criminal offense and were intended to be used to promote and support unlawful activity

I wonder what that's about. I doubt that he was knowingly helping the Silk Road or anything like that...

The thing is... Why do people pay a premium for bitcoin when they can just buy it from an exchange by linking their bank?  There are a lot of people that intentionally want to remain anonymous because they are laundering money or made the money illegally.  I have asked some borrowers before why they can afford such high interest rates and they have told me the about their customers.

This angers me more than anything else I read.  Burt never transported or transmitted funds known to be derived from a criminal offense or known to be intended to be used to promote unlawful activity.  That was an absolute lie on the part of the feds to obtain a sealed search warrant.  The phrase is part of a Patriot Act statute revision that enables the feds to act in secret so the feds use it liberally even when there are no facts to support it.  The case was dismissed because (1) Burt did NOT need a business license and (2) he never knowingly obtained funds or sent funds that he knew were earmarked for a criminal activity.  

Our family's reputation has been forever damaged because of the lies and slander by AUSA Michele Korver and S.A. Arran McWhirter and we can never sue the bastards.  The least you people could do is quit perpetuating the lies.

FYI -- people new to Bitcoin like to trade in person because it gives them a chance to learn more about Bitcoins and the community.  It's social.  Like going to garage sales to chat.

I get it.  I used a bitcoin ATM when I first bought bitcoin. But them I opened an account with  a wallet service and linked my bank.  Why do so many traders have repeat customers and such huge volume?  People make a living off this stuff.  You were found innocent but I understand why people have to be concerned about this stuff.   

[BurtW]

BurtW was recently arrested. The indictment (located by Raize):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/248973784/Bitcoin-indictment

Is there anything we can do to help him? There's a site with a donation address, though I'm a little suspicious that the site might be fake. (The arrest itself is very likely real.)

 Why did they keep his money?  I have heard that the government charges property separately from the individual.  Was the money found guilty or what?

My criminal defense attorney estimated that going to trial was going to cost me between $75,000 and $100,000 in addition to what I had already paid him.  Even if I was totally acquitted of all criminal charges there was a chance that they would not drop the civil charges that they had filed against all of the property that they had seized.  My civil asset forfeiture attorney, at totally separate law firm from the criminal defense attorney, also wanted an additional $50,000 to go to trial.

So instead of going to trial we agreed that I would pay them an extortion forfeiture, about $40,000 in cash and $40,000 in Bitcoins in order to get them to totally drop the criminal charges against me AND all the civil asset forfeiture cases against the stuff they seized.  Since we did not go to trial I never get to see all the "evidence" they supposedly had against me - some of it is still sealed to this day. 

[BurtW]

I get it.  I used a bitcoin ATM when I first bought bitcoin. But them I opened an account with  a wallet service and linked my bank.  Why do so many traders have repeat customers and such huge volume?  People make a living off this stuff.  You were found innocent but I understand why people have to be concerned about this stuff.   

Anyone selling any amount of BTC using localbitcoins in the United State under the current martial law without a license needs to be concerned.

[2112]

I wonder how this current Bitcoin legal situation compares to how the regulation of pawnbrokers and swap-meets evolved in the USA. I can't even find out if the pawnbrokers are regulated federally or locally by the states/counties/municipalities.

I've drawn a blank in my circle of friends with legal education.

I couldn't find anything sensible on http://www.nationalpawnbrokers.org/ nor on http://www.californiapawnbrokers.org/ , the top two results from the search engine.

Edit: I've found something on Wikipedia (copied from Encyclopedia Britannica) under
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pawnbroking . It seems that explicit licensing under common law started in 1785, so in effect USA imported their laws from UK.

On the related note about "martial law in the United States": not long ago I returned about 24 empty beer bottles to claim the deposit. I didn't have to sign anything to receive money, but I've noticed that most people (who were returning much larger quantities) had to sign something. Does anyone know what kind of fraud could be perpetrated on the recyclers?

[TheButterZone]

On the related note about "martial law in the United States": not long ago I returned about 24 empty beer bottles to claim the deposit. I didn't have to sign anything to receive money, but I've noticed that most people (who were returning much larger quantities) had to sign something. Does anyone know what kind of fraud could be perpetrated on the recyclers?

There have been a number of instances of beverage containers marked redeemable, taken in semis from one state where there is no redemption program, to a state with one. In other words, no deposit was paid in the state of origin. This could be remedied if the beverage containers were labeled based on the state they were to be sold in, but that's probably too much of a burden (not that CA.gov gives a shit about causing any extra burden whatsoever on businesses). Also, saw this at a recycling center recently: http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/Publications/Documents/1479%5C20131479.pdf

[2112]

There have been a number of instances of beverage containers marked redeemable, taken in semis from one state where there is no redemption program, to a state with one. In other words, no deposit was paid in the state of origin. This could be remedied if the beverage containers were labeled based on the state they were to be sold in, but that's probably too much of a burden (not that CA.gov gives a shit about causing any extra burden whatsoever on businesses). Also, saw this at a recycling center recently: http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/Publications/Documents/1479%5C20131479.pdf

Thanks for the explanation.

So this situation in California is somewhat similar to the historical cross-border empty beer bottles trade between East and West Germany. Enterprising German kids would buy beers in East Germany, drink it, wash the bottles to remove East German labels, affix some torn/fake West German paper labels and redeem the bottle deposit in the West. The arbitrage would not only pay for endless beer supply but also cover the fuel required to drive cross-border twice.

Germans took care of this crime by dismantling The Wall. I don't know what Californians will have to do.

[TheButterZone]

There have been a number of instances of beverage containers marked redeemable, taken in semis from one state where there is no redemption program, to a state with one. In other words, no deposit was paid in the state of origin. This could be remedied if the beverage containers were labeled based on the state they were to be sold in, but that's probably too much of a burden (not that CA.gov gives a shit about causing any extra burden whatsoever on businesses). Also, saw this at a recycling center recently: http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/Publications/Documents/1479%5C20131479.pdf

Thanks for the explanation.

So this situation in California is somewhat similar to the historical cross-border empty beer bottles trade between East and West Germany. Enterprising German kids would buy beers in East Germany, drink it, wash the bottles to remove East German labels, affix some torn/fake West German paper labels and redeem the bottle deposit in the West. The arbitrage would not only pay for endless beer supply but also cover the fuel required to drive cross-border twice.

Germans took care of this crime by dismantling The Wall. I don't know what Californians will have to do.

Wait until CA.gov begins genociding and the rest of the U.S. decides it's time to stop appeasing this fucking secessionist state that ratified the US Constitution, put similar clauses in the state constitution, then proceeded to violate them with impunity for over a century.

[BurtW]

If you live in the Denver/Boulder/Longmont/Niwot Colorado area please stop by the Powder Keg Brewing Company on Sunday, October 11, between 3:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. for great music, good food, good beer and a short talk by yours truly concerning my case between the two bands.  Details here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wjj00pq83nn33d/Oct%2011%20Fundraiser%20and%20Celebration.pdf?dl=0

For more information about my case:

www.burtw.com
www.jmwagner.com

Homeland Security agents and their confidential informants, cooperating witnesses and local law enforcement minions are welcome to join us.

For them there will be a very large cover charge - everyone else gets in free.

[everaja]

If you live in the Denver/Boulder/Longmont/Niwot Colorado area please stop by the Powder Keg Brewing Company on Sunday, October 11, between 3:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. for great music, good food, good beer and a short talk by yours truly concerning my case between the two bands.  Details here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wjj00pq83nn33d/Oct%2011%20Fundraiser%20and%20Celebration.pdf?dl=0

For more information about my case:

www.burtw.com
www.jmwagner.com

Homeland Security agents and their confidential informants, cooperating witnesses and local law enforcement minions are welcome to join us.

For them there will be a very large cover charge - everyone else gets in free.

Thanks for the invitation man !!
Wish you a good Life ...

[farfiman]

.....snip
Homeland Security agents and their confidential informants, cooperating witnesses and local law enforcement minions are welcome to join us.

For them there will be a very large cover charge - everyone else gets in free.

LOL  priceless!

[spazzdla]

I still can't believe the pigs can get away with this theft.... such pigs..

Gave you .01 btc.. I know not too much but I figure every little bit helps..  I hate the pigs for reasons like this..

[jbreher]

If you live in the Denver/Boulder/Longmont/Niwot Colorado area please stop by the Powder Keg Brewing Company on Sunday, October 11, between 3:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m.
Homeland Security agents and their confidential informants, cooperating witnesses and local law enforcement minions are welcome to join us.

For them there will be a very large cover charge - everyone else gets in free.

I sent a Facebook invite to (a plausible) SA Arran McWhirter: https://www.facebook.com/events/792407427535424/

[CoinCidental]

The indictment says:

involved the transport and transmission of funds that were known to the defendant to have been derived from a criminal offense and were intended to be used to promote and support unlawful activity

I wonder what that's about. I doubt that he was knowingly helping the Silk Road or anything like that...

The thing is... Why do people pay a premium for bitcoin when they can just buy it from an exchange by linking their bank?  There are a lot of people that intentionally want to remain anonymous because they are laundering money or made the money illegally.  I have asked some borrowers before why they can afford such high interest rates and they have told me the about their customers.

It could be that, or a million other reasons too

Why do people like privacy in general? Nobody likes to be observed and recorded even if they have done nothing wrong...
Why do people not just use their real name or social security number as forum handles to post on the Internet?
Why does tor have any users?
Why do we still use cash for transactions when a card system would be cleaner and more efficient and eliminate the need to carry notes and coins around?   (at least in 1st world countries it would work flawlessly with today's technology )

[QuestionAuthority]

The indictment says:

involved the transport and transmission of funds that were known to the defendant to have been derived from a criminal offense and were intended to be used to promote and support unlawful activity

I wonder what that's about. I doubt that he was knowingly helping the Silk Road or anything like that...

The thing is... Why do people pay a premium for bitcoin when they can just buy it from an exchange by linking their bank?  There are a lot of people that intentionally want to remain anonymous because they are laundering money or made the money illegally.  I have asked some borrowers before why they can afford such high interest rates and they have told me the about their customers.

It could be that, or a million other reasons too

Why do people like privacy in general? Nobody likes to be observed and recorded even if they have done nothing wrong...
Why do people not just use their real name or social security number as forum handles to post on the Internet?
Why does tor have any users?
Why do we still use cash for transactions when a card system would be cleaner and more efficient and eliminate the need to carry notes and coins around?   (at least in 1st world countries it would work flawlessly with today's technology )

Cash is going the way of the dinosaur quickly anyway. People will either use some kind of anon coin (Bitcoin, darkcoin, whatever) directly bartering, or they won't have any anonymity. The sleeping giants finally figured out that fiat money is taking away their power and they're scared. Cash is the last battlefield and WWIII has already begun.

[BurtW]

GOOD NEWS TODAY!!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1004863.msg13399046#msg13399046

[wachtwoord]

GOOD NEWS TODAY!!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1004863.msg13399046#msg13399046

Indeed! Hope you're doing well dude!

[unamis76]

GOOD NEWS TODAY!!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1004863.msg13399046#msg13399046

Good news indeed, but this doesn't seem to stop investigations on people selling and buying coins on LocalBitcoins.

Also:

Nevertheless, we’re talking about a status quo in which law enforcement takes and often keeps “cash and property from people who are never convicted – and in many cases, never charged – with wrongdoing.” And at least for now, this practice will be less common.

Emphasis on the bolded part. I think what happened to you can still easily happen again, unfortunately, but at least it seems there will be less incentive for local police enforcement to do it.

[BurtW]

The Bitcoins taken from me by Homeland Security (plus some dust given to Homeland Security by the Bitcoin community) are still just sitting here:

https://blockchain.info/address/1Eu38i1DkRAPAJhSqbseVroJDpMRfJbAx3

The ending of equitable sharing is great news for the country in general and a step in the right direction but bad for me personally.

Under the nefarious equitable sharing program my local Sheriff's department was slated to receive up to 80% of the funds taken from me once my Bitcoins were auctioned off.

I had hoped to argue that since my family was the only victim in the case the local sheriff should return to me his share of the take in the theft of my property as victim compensation.  That might have lead to the return of up to 80% of the funds taken from me.  However, now that the equitable sharing program has been terminated I would have to argue the victim angle directly with Homeland Security and the Federal Justice Department.

More expensive and much less likely to work.

Yes, this is just a step in the right direction but it is a very big step.

It will not end the practice of civil asset forfeiture but it will stop local and state law enforcement from helping the feds steal in those states (like Colorado where I live) where civil asset forfeiture is not legal by state law.

[rpietila]

I again voice my support and continue to wonder how it ever became the norm in your country that "if you are the police, you can just take whatever belongs to others and keep it regardless of everything". It never got this bad before the American Revolution. Not even close.