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Author Topic: Your cryptocoins were stolen and you called the police? WTF? Are you serious?  (Read 6083 times)
alexanderanon
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July 29, 2012, 01:05:44 AM
 #41


When everyone has a gun, there is less fighting. You apparently advocate having hidden guns so that you can empower users of deception and coercion (very non-libertarian).


??

How does gun concealment create deception and coercion? Notice how cops have their guns holstered for all to see while hackers use pseudonyms? I think you are trying to peddle some perceived hacker mantra without truly understanding the foundation of this entire movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography
Cryptography (or cryptology; from Greek κρυπτός, "hidden, secret"; and γράφειν, graphein, "writing".
"Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own." -- Satoshi
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Matthew N. Wright
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July 29, 2012, 01:10:11 AM
 #42


When everyone has a gun, there is less fighting. You apparently advocate having hidden guns so that you can empower users of deception and coercion (very non-libertarian).


??

How does gun concealment create deception and coercion? Notice how cops have their guns holstered for all to see while hackers use pseudonyms? I think you are trying to peddle some perceived hacker mantra without truly understanding the foundation of this entire movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography
Cryptography (or cryptology; from Greek κρυπτός, "hidden, secret"; and γράφειν, graphein, "writing".

The "movement" is a military one. You think anonymity will protect you? Imagine everyone being anonymous. Wow. That's a fun world to live in. Who are your parents? Who are your friends? Who is your president? Who are the police? Everyone can commit any and all crimes against you and you have absolutely no recourse. Go peddle your thieving mantra somewhere else. Bitcoin is about transparency to end coercion, not about anonymity. Anonymity is a different battle, one that I do not at this point see any point in supporting.

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July 29, 2012, 01:17:44 AM
 #43


When everyone has a gun, there is less fighting. You apparently advocate having hidden guns so that you can empower users of deception and coercion (very non-libertarian).


??

How does gun concealment create deception and coercion? Notice how cops have their guns holstered for all to see while hackers use pseudonyms? I think you are trying to peddle some perceived hacker mantra without truly understanding the foundation of this entire movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography
Cryptography (or cryptology; from Greek κρυπτός, "hidden, secret"; and γράφειν, graphein, "writing".

The "movement" is a military one. You think anonymity will protect you? Imagine everyone being anonymous. Wow. That's a fun world to live in. Who are your parents? Who are your friends? Who is your president? Who are the police? Everyone can commit any and all crimes against you and you have absolutely no recourse. Go peddle your thieving mantra somewhere else. Bitcoin is about transparency to end coercion, not about anonymity. Anonymity is a different battle, one that I do not at this point see any point in supporting.

I think you are just suffering from a fundamental cognitive failure. Anonymity is a powerful recourse, not a social imperative. It protects the weak from the oppressive, by making the weak faceless. And I don't imagine a world with a president or police. Perhaps that's where your problem lies, in your support for the state --- a true "thieving mantra".
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July 29, 2012, 01:26:55 AM
 #44


When everyone has a gun, there is less fighting. You apparently advocate having hidden guns so that you can empower users of deception and coercion (very non-libertarian).


??

How does gun concealment create deception and coercion? Notice how cops have their guns holstered for all to see while hackers use pseudonyms? I think you are trying to peddle some perceived hacker mantra without truly understanding the foundation of this entire movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography
Cryptography (or cryptology; from Greek κρυπτός, "hidden, secret"; and γράφειν, graphein, "writing".

The "movement" is a military one. You think anonymity will protect you? Imagine everyone being anonymous. Wow. That's a fun world to live in. Who are your parents? Who are your friends? Who is your president? Who are the police? Everyone can commit any and all crimes against you and you have absolutely no recourse. Go peddle your thieving mantra somewhere else. Bitcoin is about transparency to end coercion, not about anonymity. Anonymity is a different battle, one that I do not at this point see any point in supporting.
To many +1 for one thread? LOL

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iCEBREAKER
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July 29, 2012, 01:27:29 AM
 #45

Now one thought exercise: I pay taxes and I DEMAND that the police investigates if I ever get "cryptocoins" stolen from me. What are you going to do about it?

Well, first I'd have to laugh at the idea of you attempting to explain the multiple advanced concepts necessary to understand cryptocoins to your earnest reporting officer (who has much more important matters pending his limited attention than your nerd drama).

Then I might write a comedy sketch about your vain attempts to fill out a police report, press charges, and further escalate the matter.
Quote
"Describe the property stolen"
" 015ee09d20887701c404e9c3076b449f965656f6e72175a3b4725496149e75c2"

"Who do you suspect stole the property?"
"I'm 52.11212% sure 1MiHJFq2Nk8sdAAKSKgLUzi7zp4N3ZcVwz stole it, and 47.88788% sure it was 14uDeJYMp3Fr2Wm7biCvwqmf6To8rLt3hJ (the dirty bastard)."

"I'm sorry we can't understand WTF you're talking about, much less help you."
"OK then I'm filing a complaint, and getting a lawyer, and DEMANDing my taxes back."

"That's great buddy.  Good luck with that."

You can't steal a number, despite what Sony's IP lawyers may have contended regarding 46-dc-ea-d3-17-fe-45-d8-09-23-eb-97-e4-95-64-10-d4-cd-b2-c2 (until proven wrong in a most humiliating public fashion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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alexanderanon
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July 29, 2012, 01:29:24 AM
 #46


When everyone has a gun, there is less fighting. You apparently advocate having hidden guns so that you can empower users of deception and coercion (very non-libertarian).


??

How does gun concealment create deception and coercion? Notice how cops have their guns holstered for all to see while hackers use pseudonyms? I think you are trying to peddle some perceived hacker mantra without truly understanding the foundation of this entire movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography
Cryptography (or cryptology; from Greek κρυπτός, "hidden, secret"; and γράφειν, graphein, "writing".

The "movement" is a military one. You think anonymity will protect you? Imagine everyone being anonymous. Wow. That's a fun world to live in. Who are your parents? Who are your friends? Who is your president? Who are the police? Everyone can commit any and all crimes against you and you have absolutely no recourse. Go peddle your thieving mantra somewhere else. Bitcoin is about transparency to end coercion, not about anonymity. Anonymity is a different battle, one that I do not at this point see any point in supporting.
To many +1 for one thread? LOL

I think your poor grammar is indicative of the quality of your judgment in general.
Matthew N. Wright
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July 29, 2012, 01:29:37 AM
 #47

Perhaps that's where your problem lies, in your support for the state

Support for transparent organization != support for state

You think the world survives without organization. Have fun trying to work with others to build/create/better the world when you don't know how to contact them, can't get the work from them that you paid for, get robbed by them, and are raped by them in the night. Yay, anonymity!

iCEBREAKER
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July 29, 2012, 01:33:56 AM
 #48

Bitcoin was created by anarchists libertarians and for anarchists libertarians. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

Great comment, barely needed fixing.

/came for the circlejerk


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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alexanderanon
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July 29, 2012, 01:38:40 AM
 #49

Perhaps that's where your problem lies, in your support for the state

Support for transparent organization != support for state

You think the world survives without organization. Have fun trying to work with others to build/create/better the world when you don't know how to contact them, can't get the work from them that you paid for, get robbed by them, and are raped by them in the night. Yay, anonymity!

As I said, anonymity is not some social imperative that prohibits someone from having a real-life name, or something else ridiculous. When did I say that anarchy is utterly without order? Heard of spontaneous order? I began my comments on this thread by arguing against the notion that bitcoin and libertarian ideology can be separate. You have proceeded to then heap your own misunderstandings and conflated definitions upon each other to come to this conclusion, which I would describe as reductio ad absurdum, if not for the fact that it has had precisely the opposite of that intended effect.  Perhaps you haven't had the chance to read up on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_anarchism

I hope this level of ignorance isn't indicative of all bitcoinforum staff...
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July 29, 2012, 01:40:09 AM
 #50

Bitcoin was created by anarchists libertarians and for anarchists libertarians. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

Great comment, barely needed fixing.

/came for the circlejerk

I have read that those words are synonymous outside the U.S.
alexanderanon
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July 29, 2012, 01:41:19 AM
 #51

Bitcoin was created by anarchists libertarians and for anarchists libertarians. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

Great comment, barely needed fixing.

/came for the circlejerk

I use libertarian and anarchist interchangeably, because I assume my readers aren't so daft as to think I mean libertarian socialist, or collectivistic anarchist. There is only market anarchy.
Raoul Duke
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July 29, 2012, 01:42:12 AM
 #52

Now one thought exercise: I pay taxes and I DEMAND that the police investigates if I ever get "cryptocoins" stolen from me. What are you going to do about it?

Well, first I'd have to laugh at the idea of you attempting to explain the multiple advanced concepts necessary to understand cryptocoins to your earnest reporting officer (who has much more important matters pending his limited attention than your nerd drama).


What makes you think the officer doesn't know what Bitcoin is?
Also, the only thing he needs to ask me is: How much was it worth?
When I tell him it was worth more than €2500 the procedures change as those cases require special investigation and will automatically be passed to the FBI equivalent in my home country, most likely to the cybercrime division given the typology of the crime at hand.

You assume too much...

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July 29, 2012, 01:51:25 AM
 #53


When everyone has a gun, there is less fighting. You apparently advocate having hidden guns so that you can empower users of deception and coercion (very non-libertarian).


??

How does gun concealment create deception and coercion? Notice how cops have their guns holstered for all to see while hackers use pseudonyms? I think you are trying to peddle some perceived hacker mantra without truly understanding the foundation of this entire movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography
Cryptography (or cryptology; from Greek κρυπτός, "hidden, secret"; and γράφειν, graphein, "writing".

The "movement" is a military one. You think anonymity will protect you? Imagine everyone being anonymous. Wow. That's a fun world to live in. Who are your parents? Who are your friends? Who is your president? Who are the police? Everyone can commit any and all crimes against you and you have absolutely no recourse. Go peddle your thieving mantra somewhere else. Bitcoin is about transparency to end coercion, not about anonymity. Anonymity is a different battle, one that I do not at this point see any point in supporting.
To many +1 for one thread? LOL

I think your poor grammar is indicative of the quality of your judgment in general.
The fact that you reference to grammar as a sign of good or bad judgment, only shows just how intransigent and uncompromising you really are. You break down your opponent’s by belittling them with every opportunity, and adhere to egregious ideologies that don’t correlate with reality or modern day society. You sir in my opinion, are the perfect example of everything that is wrong today with Bitcoin.

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iCEBREAKER
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July 29, 2012, 01:55:28 AM
 #54

I use libertarian and anarchist interchangeably, because I assume my readers aren't so daft as to think I mean libertarian socialist, or collectivistic anarchist. There is only market anarchy.

Anarchists reject the need for, and inevitability of, a State.

Libertarians accept the need for, and inevitability of, a State (albeit a minimal, non-coersive one).

It's not a trivial difference, hence the terms are not interchangeable. 

Readers who aren't daft will be confused, or tempted to correct such misuse.

The only place where libertarian means anarchist is France, for historical reasons.

Here's an easy way to remember which term to use: libertarians have jobs and take showers, anarchists just mooch and smell bad.




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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
repentance
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July 29, 2012, 02:03:57 AM
 #55

Now one thought exercise: I pay taxes and I DEMAND that the police investigates if I ever get "cryptocoins" stolen from me. What are you going to do about it?

You can't steal a number, despite what Sony's IP lawyers may have contended regarding 46-dc-ea-d3-17-fe-45-d8-09-23-eb-97-e4-95-64-10-d4-cd-b2-c2 (until proven wrong in a most humiliating public fashion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number

If someone cleans out my online bank account they are transferring to themselves a set of numbers which they can then spend or redeem for cash.  Those numbers to not correlate to specific $20 or $50 dollar bills which are "mine" - it is the transfer of value belonging to me (same applies to cash - I don't "own the bank notes in my wallet but the value the represent) which is the offence.


All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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July 29, 2012, 02:10:35 AM
 #56

Keep your politics/ideologies out of my bitcoins.

+1
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July 29, 2012, 02:36:32 AM
 #57

The courts and police use DNA tests without fully understanding everything about that. Why would anyone need to explain how Bitcoin cryptography or transfer systems work? All they need to know to deal with a crime is that they were stolen, when, how and details like that.

It's not like art collectors have to prove why a Rembrandt has value or a historian has to explain the significance of an important document in order to report a crime of theft. It's not hard to point to the value of a Bitcoin.

Whether they can do anything depends on the circumstances. It's not like the brain power isn't out there. They do shutdown botnets and other complex stuff. Only a kid could entertain the notion that the police can't deal with Bitcoin.

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July 29, 2012, 02:41:56 AM
 #58

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

So what exactly is the problem with reporting the theft then? Even in an anarchist society there would be private security companies doing the job of the police (minus the many violations of civil liberties that's becoming common these days).



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July 29, 2012, 03:27:48 AM
 #59

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

So what exactly is the problem with reporting the theft then? Even in an anarchist society there would be private security companies doing the job of the police (minus the many violations of civil liberties that's becoming common these days).



What makes you think Private companies won't commit the same violations to civil liberties?

They are controlled by money at the end of the day you know...

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July 29, 2012, 04:02:09 AM
 #60

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

So what exactly is the problem with reporting the theft then? Even in an anarchist society there would be private security companies doing the job of the police (minus the many violations of civil liberties that's becoming common these days).



What makes you think Private companies won't commit the same violations to civil liberties?

They are controlled by money at the end of the day you know...

Yeah they could, should've stuck a maybe in there somewhere.

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