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Author Topic: Coinbase CEO: bitcoin is far ahead! Altcoins are distractions!  (Read 10400 times)
Beymond
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February 24, 2015, 05:17:05 PM
 #41

That is Pretty right and straight forward Undecided
Possum577
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February 24, 2015, 07:11:33 PM
 #42

I couldn't agree more, Bitcoin is the first and only. The others are just noise, wastes of time...

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February 24, 2015, 07:20:03 PM
 #43

I agree! If they do offer an advantage over Bitcoin, it is negligibly small. Bitcoin itself offers a lot of advantages and is itself something completely new compared to the traditional financial systems, it's got the first-mover advantage and doesn't need shorter block times or anything.

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February 24, 2015, 07:20:14 PM
 #44

Looks like a wanna be Bankster crying.

Coinbases "rick rolling" stunt was a HUGE red flag.  

I think they have some pretty serious issues going on.

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - Trade altcoins & Bitcoin Testnet coins with real Bitcoin. Fast, private, and easy!
https://FreeBitcoins.com/faucet/ - Load your AltQuick exchange account with free Bitcoins & Testnet every 10 minutes.
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February 24, 2015, 07:24:51 PM
 #45

This thread is like a who's who of shitcoin pushers.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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February 24, 2015, 07:25:41 PM
 #46

All altcoins are by nature, just copycat, pump and dump coins.  Pump the price a few points, gone tomorrow.  Gimmicky features, gimmicky logos, proof of stake 10%, oooh 10 second confirmation times must be good!

That's a very sweeping generalisation that does no justice to the complexity of the altcoin market.

First - there are 2 very different contexts in which bitcoin can be appraised:

[1] - monetary context

[2] - technology context

In other words, in a monetary context bitcoin can be perfect (meet all the requirements for high quality monetary medium - like gold does) but in a technology context it may not be (like gold isn't:not very portable and not very transmittable).

Even in a monetary context, however, bitcoin has 1 missing property: fungibility. The fact that coins can be tracked on the blockchain detracts from bitcoin's suitability as a monetary medium by adversely impacting on its fungibility. Several altcoins address this deficiency directly and there is no sense in which that feature can be described as a "gimmick". It is a fundamental property of sound money and the market will endorse that fact.

Secondly, although bitcoin's deficiencies in a technological context may not detract from its marketcap or monetary suitability, they will detract from its useability. There are all kinds of areas where this is true. Take, for example, the "shares" based algos where shorts in pegged digital assets are matched against a natural demand for stable currencies for use in retail. This is a fundamental monetary mechanism which has been in use in societies for eons. Despite that, there's no way bitcoin itself will ever meet that market requirement, it's a completely different monetary animal.

Nor are sidechains ever likely to meet these requirements because the idea isn't remotely scaleable enough for the reasons I outlined here (and even if it was it wouldn't address the demand for genuinely de-coupled alt currencies).

In my opinion, many alt coins haven't even approached 10% of their potential value against bitcoin. Some of them could well exceed Bitcoin in marketcap even if BTC remains the cryto "reserve".

We won't know until adoption takes off because while there's no widespread adoption the altcoin's technological advantage is redundant and speculative only.

With widespread adoption however, there we'll see entire markets for which Bitcoin simply isn't suitable for practical reasons - too slow, too precious, too transparent, too whatever. At that point, I expect that some of the alts will rocket in value to fill the gaps.


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February 24, 2015, 07:32:43 PM
 #47

All altcoins are by nature, just copycat, pump and dump coins.  Pump the price a few points, gone tomorrow.  Gimmicky features, gimmicky logos, proof of stake 10%, oooh 10 second confirmation times must be good!

FUD FUD FUD FUD  ALTCOINS ARE THE SHIZ FUD FUD FUD


TLDR move on to DRK coin instead!!!


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February 24, 2015, 07:34:39 PM
 #48

Monero is not a clone of Bitcoin and it offers something that Bitcoin does not - unlinkable & untraceable transactions using ring signatures. I find it useful and more interesting than bitcoin at this point.


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February 24, 2015, 08:59:49 PM
Last edit: February 24, 2015, 09:13:26 PM by jimmothy
 #49

I doubt very much that sidechains will prove a satisfactory substitute for truly independent, free-floating alternative cryptocurrencies.

For a start, welding the "alt" into a pegged straightjacket in Bitcoin creates more problems than it solves because it needs to 'hijack' a portion of the bitcoin money supply to generate the alt-coins giving rise to all kinds of liquidity problems (in Bitcoin, by taking coins out of supply and in the alts by limiting their ability to respond to market demand).

Not all sidechains will be one way pegged, like micropayments/merchant sidechains, therefore it won't reduce the coin supply. Though I've never heard of reducing the coin supply being a real issue as btc is infinitely divisible.

When sidechains increase the uses of bitcoin, the adoption should increase along with liquidity.

Quote
Bitcoin is already deflationary enough as it is - the altcoin market is a very nice way to address the need for a natural elasticity, monetary growth
and technological diversity without bitcoin developers constantly hammering out code and hardforks. Bitcoin can still form the reserve currency which "backs" all other alts (it's already is doing that - we price the 'alts' in BTC).

The only thing that sidechains couldn't do is change the distribution/monetary growth. But at this point I think the only people who feel those are issues are those looking to get rich quick.

Quote
Secondly, what you see right now is the market working: it's showing you what the future's going to be. In other words, you can bolt on all the "warts" you want to Bitcoin physically but there will always be an altcoin market.

Are you sure about that? Only a few months ago the combined shitcoin market cap was ~25% of Bitcoins market cap. Now it's closer to 10%. That would suggest the altcoin cesspool is shrinking and hopefully will be completely phased out.

Quote
There's just too much diversity in the world to be able to architect the future into a single technology. It reminds me of the 1990's when Microsoft tried to monopolise the browser market by making Internet Explorer an extension of Windows so the user had "everything in one platform". Sorry - no can do, even though your the biggest technology company in the world with 95% of adoption, your never bigger than people's imagination.

Sorry but that's just patently false.

Look at the internet, a single protocol which 99.999% of people use. There's no reason bitcoin can't become the internet of crypto and have innovations/inventions built upon it.

Quote
Sidechains is the kind of idea that someone has as a metaphor for what the market's doing already. It's a nice idea as an economic model but not remotely implementable in practice if the crypto-economy ever gets to a significant size because markets will just blow it away with things like decentralised exchanges which perform the same function but without all the liquidity and technology restrictions of sidechains.

Decentralized exchanges can only trade between crypto and only need to exist if shitcoins are a thing. With sidechains there would be no need for a decentralized exchange because you could seamlessly send btc from sidechain to sidechain.

Nor are sidechains ever likely to meet these requirements because the idea isn't remotely scaleable enough for the reasons I outlined here (and even if it was it wouldn't address the demand for genuinely de-coupled alt currencies).

Please do elaborate because you didn't explain at all how sidechains are not remotely scalable.
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February 24, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
 #50

And the flame war rages on, people is so predictable...

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February 24, 2015, 09:28:06 PM
 #51

I guess he forgets the important fact that AltCoins, collectively, far superseede Bitcoin in total $$ trades.

Bullshit. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/volume/24-hour/

Bitcoin's trading volume makes up 83% of all cryptos trading volume. That percentage is only increasing as time goes on.

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He also forgets that many/most people only use Bitcoin to obtain AltCoins?

Most people only use bitcoin to obtain shitcoins? What kind of fantasy land are you living in?

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He doesn't understand that Bitcoin has general appeal whilst AltCoins have niche appeal?

Agreed. Altcoins have the get rich quick scheme niche appeal.

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Although I'll agree that no-mining coins kill the purpose of cryptos, Bitcoin will at some point no longer be the "über alles" of cryptos.

So far all my predictions in cryptos have happened, so let me make some more crazy predictions.

Ever since I was born, every prediction I made has come true. (true story)

I predict that Bitcoin + sidechains will completely wipe out the shitcoin cesspool.

Quote
Afloudist on that jackass!

Glad I don't trust them with any of my coin.

Yea, why would anyone want to trust this legally compliant/insured/audited exchange backed by the NYSE, USAA, and BBVA, when we could be using one of the many shitcoin exchanges created by sketchy anonymous basement devs in their spare time.
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February 24, 2015, 09:50:47 PM
 #52


Please do elaborate because you didn't explain at all how sidechains are not remotely scalable...+ various other points

I'm not saying sidechains can't work - I'm saying you can't remotely expect them to displace alt coins because they are *not* altcoins.

Of course, nobody can know how this will all go in the future, but I think one of the things that characterises your view and doesn't mine is your comparison of Bitcoin to TCP/IP.

Such an analogy is a big mistake.

Bitcoin is not at all like the fundamental internet network layers. For a start it isn't an international technological standard, it is a private monetary brand. I wouldn't even liken it to a high level protocol (of which there are many such as http, JSON, SMPT etc).

The market can come up with new decentralised currencies anytime it wants and have them incrementally adopted. What matters isn't whether it's mechanically interfaced with bitcoin but rather that it's economically interfaced with it by way of a market value.

Maybe sidechains will have a future and maybe they won't, but I don't think it will have any bearing on the future for alts. Cryptocurrencies are already extremely fluid and interchangeable - far more so than fiat currencies. That fact alone implies there will be a comfortable co-existence to mutual benefit of bitcoin as a reserve and altcoins as a kind of "transport / liquidity layer".

Only a few months ago the combined shitcoin market cap was ~25% of Bitcoins market cap. Now it's closer to 10%. That would suggest the altcoin cesspool is shrinking and hopefully will be completely phased out.

It would suggest no such thing. Bitcoin lost 80% of its marketcap against fiat last year. Are you concluding from that that Bitcoin has no future, is "shrinking and..will be completely phased out" ?

And why are you calling it the "shitcoin market" ? Do you want to be taken seriously or not ?

Bitcoin has survived as long as it has because that altcoin market exists. Altcoins have demonstrated that blockchain technology is not limited to the monetary and technological properties that bitcoin alone exhibits. It has served as a stepping stone and a liquidity engine for bitcoin trading as well as all kinds of innovative tech evolutions. The reason its marketcap declined is exactly the same as the reason bitcoin's declined - speculative consolidation and profit taking. Technical development, innovation and market involvement however are more active than ever.

I don't know why I'm even defending this point of view because it's so self evident. The idea that alts are not going to have a huge role if the crypto-economy blows up is ludicrous. Of course they will - bitcoin has already been left in the dust by altcoin technology and sidechains are not even on the drawing board.

As I say - BTC will likely have the role of a cryptocurrency monetary reserve, but any alt that has a value measurable in bitcoin which is infinitely more practical in specific markets is not going to disappear.
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February 24, 2015, 09:58:36 PM
 #53


I wouldn't even liken it to a high level protocol




Sure looks like a Protocol stack to me.



So what ? Bitcoin lost 80% of its marketcap





Uhm....is DRK Coin even trying to be a Cryptocurrency?

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February 24, 2015, 10:00:33 PM
 #54


Sure looks like a Protocol stack to me.

It may look like one to you but it isn't one.

If you can't tell the difference money and a communications protocol then I can't help you, but be advised that markets sure can.
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February 24, 2015, 10:05:37 PM
 #55


Sure looks like a Protocol stack to me.

-rubbish-



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February 24, 2015, 10:16:17 PM
 #56



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February 24, 2015, 10:18:54 PM
 #57

I'm not saying sidechains can't work - I'm saying you can't remotely expect them to displace alt coins because they are *not* altcoins.

I can expect exactly that. Sidechains are just altcoins without the get rich quick scheme.

Please do tell which specific altcoins features cannot be implemented as sidechains.
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February 24, 2015, 10:20:48 PM
 #58





Nice, you finally see the light!  Please come over from the DRK coin basement where no one trades and no one outside of that basement knows it exists.  Step into the BTC light my liege!


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ColdScam
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February 24, 2015, 10:33:47 PM
 #59


Nice, you finally see the light!  Please come over from the DRK coin basement where no one trades and no one outside of that basement knows it exists.  Step into the BTC light my liege

It might surprise you to find out that the majority of my crypto holdings is in BTC - not alts.

Like I said - I've always seen Bitcoin as being "the one" and have had plenty of arguments in the distant past where I took your side.

But things are not black and white. The last 2 years have told us somethings which we would be stupid to ignore. What they've told us is that the economics of crypto and the technical evolution of crypto are 2 distinct paths. The alts have carried the technology forward while Bitcoin continues to carry the value forward.

In the face of that you can't just say that "alts are dying". The advance they've made technologically over bitcoin is massive. Nor will sidechains address the technology issue because - as I've already banged on about - it leaves the market wide open for decentralised alt-currencies that are not sidechained to bitcoin but still carry bitcoin's value (like they are doing today). So all I'm saying is that however "nice" sidechains look from a bitcoin perspective, they don't look that great from a market perspective.
Fiatcrisis
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February 24, 2015, 10:38:35 PM
 #60

To further some points I've read so far... altcoins pertaining to specific markets are useful & perhaps more practical. - This seems to be a common argument many are making and I would have to agree with it. An example is Amazons implementation of "amazon coins." They see the benefits of crypto, their high level execs which are paid millions of dollars a year decided it is most beneficial to create a coin rather than use an existing one.

And I think that's true for many niche markets. You can tailor the code as you see fit. For these reasons altcoins are not "distractions," but they will not replace bitcoin. Bitcoin is a first-mover and as such has experienced many issues that other second-mover altcoins were able to avoid. However, the future of crypto will be determined by the adoption of bitcoin. There are many people with great stakes in bitcoin and their push for mainstream adoption will couple with bitcoins inherent value to raise the price and further investor confidence
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