Coinbase CEO: bitcoin is far ahead! Altcoins are distractions!

[cuddaloreappu]

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/569914763263606785

"Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains"


Seems he is a bitcoin maximalist!

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[pedrog]

He just started the flame war!

[God27]

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/569914763263606785

"Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains"


Seems he is a bitcoin maximalist!

When you start mentioning others publicly in a negative way.... you're in trouble. 



MySpace was way too far ahead of Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and etc.  They must be failures with hardly any users today.

[koelen3]

Maybe coinbase should try some Alts

[ticoti]

Hey coinbase ceo,let's say obvious things 

[DonDev]

He is is right though and I agree with him. The average Joe on street or even my friends have a hard time understanding bitcoin and the concept behind it. Now imagine explaining the reason behind crappy altcoins like jackpotcoin or potcoin lol.

[NoahWL1]

I guess that's pretty much true.  Although altcoins are fun and there's definitely money to be made if you know what you're doing, I hardly believe that they will ever compare to Bitcoin if Bitcoin is adopted as a worldwide currency, as it ought to be.

[Joshuar]

With Coinbase's attitude, they're gonna get replaced by another exchange that understands Bitcoin is just as alternative a currency as any other altcoin, as the dominant currencies are FIAT(USD, EURO, etc).

Let's face the reality. Most "good" altcoin devs want to have a place in history, they want to make money, and they want to leave an impact on the world, and they can't do that through sidechains. Not to mention the huge economy based on other cryptocurrencie besides bitcoin, quite similar to stocks. Do you actually believe that they would give up on profitable trading for the sake of Bitcoin development? I think not. Bitcoin has flaws, and some people are out there to improve upon them down to the protocol level(Which is impossible to do with sidechains).

Good Luck Coinbase CEO, with that attitude I'm positive your exchange will not be the dominant one in the future.

[Beliathon]

MySpace was way too far ahead of Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and etc.  They must be failures with hardly any users today.

Totally apples to oranges comparison there. Myspace is neither a network protocol, nor a form of currency.

With Coinbase's attitude, they're gonna get replaced by another exchange that understands Bitcoin is just as alternative a currency as any other altcoin,

Rofl, what a monumental logical failure. First, Coinbase isn't even an exchange (yet). Second, they are the only service with 70 million dollars backing.

Bitcoin has flaws, and some people are out there to improve upon them.

HTTP has flaws too, but for some strange reason no other protocol ever rose to compete with it. Why do you suppose that is?

I'll give you a hint, both HTTP and Bitcoin are protocols which change and evolve over time. You don't need alternate versions of an entity which itself is capable of change.

There's a reason neanderthals are extinct, they were an inferior version of an evolving entity, utterly redundant. Natural selection did its work then, just as unnatural (market) selection will do to altcoins now.

[Joshuar]

MySpace was way too far ahead of Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and etc.  They must be failures with hardly any users today.

Totally apples to oranges comparison there. Myspace is neither a network protocol, nor a form of currency.

With Coinbase's attitude, they're gonna get replaced by another exchange that understands Bitcoin is just as alternative a currency as any other altcoin,

Rofl, what a monumental logical failure. First, Coinbase isn't even an exchange (yet). Second, they are the only service with 70 million dollars backing.

Bitcoin has flaws, and some people are out there to improve upon them.

HTTP has flaws too, but for some strange reason no other protocol ever rose to compete with it. Why do you suppose that is?

I'll give you a hint, both HTTP and Bitcoin are protocols which change and evolve over time. You don't need alternate versions of an entity which itself is capable of change.

There's a reason neanderthals are extinct, they were an inferior version of an evolving entity, utterly redundant. Natural selection did its work then, just as unnatural (market) selection will do to altcoins now.

Is coinbase not a USD-BTC exchange? Do you really think Bitcoin has a future? Exactly why should people use bitcoin Beliathon? You seem like just another overhyping, clueless, bitcoin fanboy.

"There's a reason neanderthals are extinct, they were an inferior version of an evolving entity, utterly redundant. Natural selection did its work then, just as unnatural (market) selection will do to altcoins now." - Quite the opposite reaction will occur.

[gentlemand]

There are plenty of alts with merit, but at some point there has to be consensus about what to get behind, especially with something that can be replicated like BTC.

So far the weight of numbers have settled on bitcoin and a leading company in the space would be pretty dumb to start dabbling in weaker systems.

It's similar to domains. Why did .com become the most prestigious? All the others work just as well. It's only because people en masse decided to award it value.

And I don't think Ripple/ Stellar are bitcoin alternatives. They're a different beast.

[saddambitcoin]

This thread should be moved to the Altcoin Forum.

 

[Beliathon]

Is coinbase not a USD-BTC exchange?

Well, now Coinbase has an exchange, but this is a very recent development.

Do you really think Bitcoin has a future?

Has a future? No, I think Bitcoin is the future [of money].

Exactly why should people use bitcoin Beliathon?

Loads of reasons, chief among them being that unlike fiat scrip, bitcoin is not backed by state violence.

You seem like just another overhyping, clueless, bitcoin fanboy.

Cool story bro. Spoiler alert: No one cares what you think of me, least of all me.

Quite the opposite reaction will occur.

Why? What reasons do you have for believing that altcoins will grow and bitcoin will shrink, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

Altcoins are dying is because more and more people are finding out how easy it is to create a new coin and try to profit from it. That results in a large supply of altcoins, there are dozens of altcoins coming out daily on bitcointalk.org. Altcoinland is dominated by get rich quick scams, pumps and dumps, lies and deception. As more people get scammed by investing in a scamcoin the liquidity of the altcoin market decreases because traders are left with a sour taste in their wallets. When liquidity decreases so do the prices and marketcaps. Lets look at a comparison of altcoin marketcaps back in 2014 compared to altcoin market caps today.

[Joshuar]

Is coinbase not a USD-BTC exchange?

Well, now Coinbase has an exchange, but this is a very recent development.

Do you really think Bitcoin has a future?

Has a future? No, I think Bitcoin is the future [of money].

Exactly why should people use bitcoin Beliathon?

Loads of reasons, chief among them being that unlike fiat scrip, bitcoin is not backed by state violence.

You seem like just another overhyping, clueless, bitcoin fanboy.

Cool story bro. Spoiler alert: No one cares what you think of me, least of all me.

Quite the opposite reaction will occur.

And why is that?

Look, the average person does not care about decentralization, the blockchain's benefits(permanent record etc), or your conspiracy theory that FIAT money is backed by state violence. Since you're this clueless, I'm not even going to elaborate further.

[Beliathon]

your conspiracy theory that FIAT money is backed by state violence.

Rofl.

Since you're this clueless, I'm not even going to elaborate further.

I accept your forfeiture of the argument. Good day sir.

[Bit_Happy]

Maybe coinbase should try some Alts

If an alt does somehow pass BTC, then you can count on companies like Coinbase competing to serve the "new" territory. 

[Joshuar]

Is coinbase not a USD-BTC exchange?

Well, now Coinbase has an exchange, but this is a very recent development.

Do you really think Bitcoin has a future?

Has a future? No, I think Bitcoin is the future [of money].

Exactly why should people use bitcoin Beliathon?

Loads of reasons, chief among them being that unlike fiat scrip, bitcoin is not backed by state violence.

You seem like just another overhyping, clueless, bitcoin fanboy.

Cool story bro. Spoiler alert: No one cares what you think of me, least of all me.

Quite the opposite reaction will occur.

Why? What reasons do you have for believing that altcoins will grow and bitcoin will shrink, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

Altcoins are dying is because more and more people are finding out how easy it is to create a new coin and try to profit from it. That results in a large supply of altcoins, there are dozens of altcoins coming out daily on bitcointalk.org. Altcoinland is dominated by get rich quick scams, pumps and dumps, lies and deception. As more people get scammed by investing in a scamcoin the liquidity of the altcoin market decreases because traders are left with a sour taste in their wallets. When liquidity decreases so do the prices and marketcaps. Lets look at a comparison of altcoin marketcaps back in 2014 compared to altcoin market caps today.

I couldn't resist.

Back in 2013, when Bitcoin reached a price of $1200, this gave rise to new interest in Bitcoin and naturally drew in more developers, users, investors, etc. So of course, there would be more altcoins near Bitcoin's peak price(early-middle 2014), than now. So frankly, your logic makes no sense.  Of course to the inexperienced eye such as yours, you're quick to dismiss things evidently after first sight, without fully grasping it's true nature. In Bitcoin's years, I'm sure you were one of those that addressed it as nothing more than play-money, missing out entirely on a new technology, and the same will happen to you again.

[Beliathon]

Of course to the inexperienced eye such as yours

Perhaps you missed the fact that I've been around here much longer than you have?

I couldn't resist either, noob. Now why don't you fuck off back to your altcoin ghetto where you belong? Your shitcoin friends need you to keep pushing their "XCurrency" scam.

[randy8777]

Maybe coinbase should try some Alts

If an alt does somehow pass BTC, then you can count on companies like Coinbase competing to serve the "new" territory. 

but we know this isn't going to happen in the near future.
bitcoin is and will stay nr 1 for plenty of years.

[bryant.coleman]

Maybe coinbase should try some Alts

Why should they?

He is perfectly right. Altcoins are parasites leeching off Bitcoin's success. They don't have any merits or advantages over Bitcoin.

[jimmothy]

Bitcoin has flaws, and some people are out there to improve upon them down to the protocol level(Which is impossible to do with sidechains).

Please do explain why you can't use sidechains to improve upon the protocol instead of creating a new get rich quick scheme altcoin for every new idea.

[Joshuar]

Bitcoin has flaws, and some people are out there to improve upon them down to the protocol level(Which is impossible to do with sidechains).

Please do explain why you can't use sidechains to improve upon the protocol instead of creating a new get rich quick scheme altcoin for every new idea.

Bitcoin was a "get rich quick scheme" itself if you wanna go that route. There is no incentive for notable developers to work on sidechains, period. I'll let you figure out the rest for yourself. One big reason for legitimate "altcoin" developers is that they want to improve upon Bitcoin itself on a protocol level, as well as other areas (Substitues for mining, Improving distribution of coins: Satoshi holds 1million bitcoins, etc), and they cant do that through sidechains.

After all, Bitcoin, and every other cryptocurrency out there is still in Beta stage. Bitcoin has under 10million users(I suspect far lower, as low as 1million since blockchain.info has less than 5 million accounts created), so it's stupid to rule out anything as of now.

[Lauda]

Bitcoin was a "get rich quick scheme" itself if you wanna go that route. There is no incentive for notable developers to work on sidechains, period. I'll let you figure out the rest for yourself. One big reason for legitimate "altcoin" developers is that they want to improve upon Bitcoin itself on a protocol level, as well as other areas (Substitues for mining, Improving distribution of coins: Satoshi holds 1million bitcoins, etc), and they cant do that through sidechains.

After all, Bitcoin, and every other cryptocurrency out there is still in Beta stage. Bitcoin has under 10million users(I suspect far lower, as low as 1million since blockchain.info has less than 5 million accounts created), so it's stupid to rule out anything as of now.

LOL distribution again. I would expect these altcoins dumb fucks would sing a different song by now.

As for the "incentives" to work on sidechains, you must be dumb as fuck if you think there is none.

The argument that Bitcoin itself was a "get rich quick sheme" is just so weak. This is just wrong. Bitcoin differs in many things from ltcoins.
Coinbase is right. Altcoins have been leeching off of the market cap and pushing away users with scams and whatnot.
(coming from someone who was into altcoins 1 year ago).

[jimmothy]

Bitcoin has flaws, and some people are out there to improve upon them down to the protocol level(Which is impossible to do with sidechains).

Please do explain why you can't use sidechains to improve upon the protocol instead of creating a new get rich quick scheme altcoin for every new idea.

Bitcoin was a "get rich quick scheme" itself if you wanna go that route. There is no incentive for notable developers to work on sidechains, period. I'll let you figure out the rest for yourself. One big reason for legitimate "altcoin" developers is that they want to improve upon Bitcoin itself on a protocol level, as well as other areas (Substitues for mining, Improving distribution of coins: Satoshi holds 1million bitcoins, etc), and they cant do that through sidechains.

After all, Bitcoin, and every other cryptocurrency out there is still in Beta stage. Bitcoin has under 10million users(I suspect far lower, as low as 1million since blockchain.info has less than 5 million accounts created), so it's stupid to rule out anything as of now.

LOL distribution again. I would expect these altcoins dumb fucks would sing a different song by now.

As for the "incentives" to work on sidechains, you must be dumb as fuck if you think there is none.

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-21-million-funding-will-drive-bitcoin-development/

I'd love to know how this company managed to raise $21 million if there are no incentives. That single investment round in a sidechains company is more money than the market cap of all but 2 shitcoins. (3 if you include ripples obviously fake market cap)

[celestio]

The funny thing is that you're all wrong. Bitcoin is unsuitable for micropayments/transactions, even Gavin Anderson said so. However, an altcoin named cryptonite makes that possible through it's miniblockchain. Bitcoin is unsuitable for instant transactions, however an altcoin named Darkcoin makes that possible through masternodes, and finally Bitcoin is unsuitable for anonymity, but however a altcoin named Monero makes that possible through it's RingSignatures.

Bitcoin has no use cases. It's useless for micro transactions, its useless for anonymity, and its useless for instant transactions. Sidechains won't help that, as another use pointed out, developers of altcoins come to improve upon bitcoin, not work with Bitcoin's flaws. And as another user said, Bitcoin is an altcoin, and it's in Beta stage with hardly any userbase compared to even apps on Google Play.

Get realistic.

That single investment round in a sidechains company is more money than the market cap of all but 2 shitcoins. (3 if you include ripples obviously fake market cap)

Yea, and a single app on Apple Appstore/GooglePlay(Snapchat, and many others) is worth over 4x as much as Bitcoin's marketcap.

[celestio]

The funny thing is that you're all wrong. Bitcoin is unsuitable for micropayments/transactions, even Gavin Anderson said so. However, an altcoin named cryptonite makes that possible through it's miniblockchain. Bitcoin is unsuitable for instant transactions, however an altcoin named Darkcoin makes that possible through masternodes, and finally Bitcoin is unsuitable for anonymity, but however a altcoin named Monero makes that possible through it's RingSignatures.

Bitcoin has no use cases. It's useless for micro transactions, its useless for anonymity, and its useless for instant transactions. Sidechains won't help that, as another use pointed out, developers of altcoins come to improve upon bitcoin, not work with Bitcoin's flaws. And as another user said, Bitcoin is an altcoin, and it's in Beta stage with hardly any userbase compared to even apps on Google Play.

Get realistic.

That single investment round in a sidechains company is more money than the market cap of all but 2 shitcoins. (3 if you include ripples obviously fake market cap)

Yea, and a single app on Apple Appstore/GooglePlay(Snapchat, and many others) is worth over 4x as much as Bitcoin's marketcap.

Holyshit, and Facebook net value is worth mutiples of Snapchat.


Wait, did you just tell everyone on here that you're just a dumb fuck?

Are you making any sense? Bitcoin is supposed to be a currency. Currencies are supposed to be multi-billion to trillion dollar entities. A single app being worth over 4x as much as Bitcoin's marketcap should tell you something.

[celestio]

The funny thing is that you're all wrong. Bitcoin is unsuitable for micropayments/transactions, even Gavin Anderson said so. However, an altcoin named cryptonite makes that possible through it's miniblockchain. Bitcoin is unsuitable for instant transactions, however an altcoin named Darkcoin makes that possible through masternodes, and finally Bitcoin is unsuitable for anonymity, but however a altcoin named Monero makes that possible through it's RingSignatures.

Bitcoin has no use cases. It's useless for micro transactions, its useless for anonymity, and its useless for instant transactions. Sidechains won't help that, as another use pointed out, developers of altcoins come to improve upon bitcoin, not work with Bitcoin's flaws. And as another user said, Bitcoin is an altcoin, and it's in Beta stage with hardly any userbase compared to even apps on Google Play.

Get realistic.

That single investment round in a sidechains company is more money than the market cap of all but 2 shitcoins. (3 if you include ripples obviously fake market cap)

Yea, and a single app on Apple Appstore/GooglePlay(Snapchat, and many others) is worth over 4x as much as Bitcoin's marketcap.

Holyshit, and Facebook net value is worth mutiples of Snapchat.


Wait, did you just tell everyone on here that you're just a dumb fuck?

Are you making any sense? Bitcoin is supposed to be a currency. Currencies are supposed to be multi-billion to trillion dollar entities. A single app being worth over 4x as much as Bitcoin's marketcap should tell you something.

No dumbshit, currency isnt supposed to be an entity. Go learn what currency is.

Are you legitimately retarded or trolling? Serious question. It seems you dont know what the word entity implies in that context. Regardless, I don't have time to respond to idiots. Ignored.

[jimmothy]

The funny thing is that you're all wrong. Bitcoin is unsuitable for micropayments/transactions, even Gavin Anderson said so. However, an altcoin named cryptonite makes that possible through it's miniblockchain. Bitcoin is unsuitable for instant transactions, however an altcoin named Darkcoin makes that possible through masternodes, and finally Bitcoin is unsuitable for anonymity, but however a altcoin named Monero makes that possible through it's RingSignatures.

Bitcoin has no use cases. It's useless for micro transactions, its useless for anonymity, and its useless for instant transactions. Sidechains won't help that, as another use pointed out, developers of altcoins come to improve upon bitcoin, not work with Bitcoin's flaws. And as another user said, Bitcoin is an altcoin, and it's in Beta stage with hardly any userbase compared to even apps on Google Play.

Get realistic.

Another shitcoin enthusiast who doesn't understand sidechains. I'd suggest you do some research before sidechains rolls out because it's going to make your worthless shitcoins even more worthless.



The nice thing about sidechains is that it doesn't require using the bitcoin protocol. That means there can be entire sidechains created for micropayments/merchant transactions/anonymity/etc. If it turns out that cryptonite, darkcoin, or monero bring features people want, they can be simply implemented as sidechains.

[Kprawn]

This might be a bit controversial, but in a sense, what he is saying has some merit.

Bitcoin is seeking mass adoption, and if people new to crypto currencies get burned on some "pump n dump" coin {not saying all Alt coins are} ....they might get discouraged, to adopt BTC too.

The problem with this is, that Alt coins imo are the testing area for BTC for many NEW innovative features and we are just human. {Not everyone wants to drink Coke, some like Orange juice}

Yes, BTC is the de facto and strongest currency, and it should be easier for NEW people to only have one option, but Alt coins should also have a place in the sun.

Do we need 900+ Alt coins? {Well that is a subject on it's own}

[celestio]

The funny thing is that you're all wrong. Bitcoin is unsuitable for micropayments/transactions, even Gavin Anderson said so. However, an altcoin named cryptonite makes that possible through it's miniblockchain. Bitcoin is unsuitable for instant transactions, however an altcoin named Darkcoin makes that possible through masternodes, and finally Bitcoin is unsuitable for anonymity, but however a altcoin named Monero makes that possible through it's RingSignatures.

Bitcoin has no use cases. It's useless for micro transactions, its useless for anonymity, and its useless for instant transactions. Sidechains won't help that, as another use pointed out, developers of altcoins come to improve upon bitcoin, not work with Bitcoin's flaws. And as another user said, Bitcoin is an altcoin, and it's in Beta stage with hardly any userbase compared to even apps on Google Play.

Get realistic.

That single investment round in a sidechains company is more money than the market cap of all but 2 shitcoins. (3 if you include ripples obviously fake market cap)

Yea, and a single app on Apple Appstore/GooglePlay(Snapchat, and many others) is worth over 4x as much as Bitcoin's marketcap.

Holyshit, and Facebook net value is worth mutiples of Snapchat.


Wait, did you just tell everyone on here that you're just a dumb fuck?

Are you making any sense? Bitcoin is supposed to be a currency. Currencies are supposed to be multi-billion to trillion dollar entities. A single app being worth over 4x as much as Bitcoin's marketcap should tell you something.

No dumbshit, currency isnt supposed to be an entity. Go learn what currency is.

Are you legitimately retarded, or trolling? Serious question.

Funny you ask because i was wondering the same thing.

Can you put a market cap on a currency and say that currency is worth X? No stupid. Currency isnt a product or company.

Ok, I just had to respond to your outright stupidity. Bitcoin is not being treated as a currency, it's being treated as a speculative investment incase you didn't know. So yes, you can and it does have a marketcap on Bitcoin, which as of right now is not behaving as a currency should. It's behaving like an investment or stock.

Go back to school please, take economics, take english classes, take counseling. Do something, please! And with that, I bid you farewell, troll.

[celestio]

The funny thing is that you're all wrong. Bitcoin is unsuitable for micropayments/transactions, even Gavin Anderson said so. However, an altcoin named cryptonite makes that possible through it's miniblockchain. Bitcoin is unsuitable for instant transactions, however an altcoin named Darkcoin makes that possible through masternodes, and finally Bitcoin is unsuitable for anonymity, but however a altcoin named Monero makes that possible through it's RingSignatures.

Bitcoin has no use cases. It's useless for micro transactions, its useless for anonymity, and its useless for instant transactions. Sidechains won't help that, as another use pointed out, developers of altcoins come to improve upon bitcoin, not work with Bitcoin's flaws. And as another user said, Bitcoin is an altcoin, and it's in Beta stage with hardly any userbase compared to even apps on Google Play.

Get realistic.

Another shitcoin enthusiast who doesn't understand sidechains. I'd suggest you do some research before sidechains rolls out because it's going to make your worthless shitcoins even more worthless.



The nice thing about sidechains is that it doesn't require using the bitcoin protocol. That means there can be entire sidechains created for micropayments/merchant transactions/anonymity/etc. If it turns out that cryptonite, darkcoin, or monero bring features people want, they can be simply implemented as sidechains.

It's funny that you say that because for all intents and purposes, Bitcoin was the very first "shitcoin" and is currently the #1 "shitcoin". Satoshi Nakamoto mined aprox 1million Bitcoins, most early adopters bought tons at ridiculously "low" prices, and most of all Bitcoin's entire price increase history was because of an illegal trading bot using nonexistent fiat cash to buy bitcoins on MtGox.

You're trying to defend your investment in Bitcoin, I know, but it's all in vain when you look at the details.

[jimmothy]

It's funny that you say that because for all intents and purposes, Bitcoin was the very first "shitcoin" and is currently the #1 "shitcoin". Satoshi Nakamoto mined aprox 1million Bitcoins, most early adopters bought tons at ridiculously "low" prices, and most of all Bitcoin's entire price increase history was because of an illegal trading bot using nonexistent fiat cash to buy bitcoins on MtGox.

You're trying to defend your investment in Bitcoin, I know, but it's all in vain when you look at the details.

What you just said made absolutely no sense.

You know bitcoin isn't a shitcoin when the NYSE, USAA, and BBVA invest in a bitcoin company.

Or when Microsoft, Dell, Newegg, Virgin Galactic, Paypal, Ebay, Square, Stripe, Namecheap, Wordpress, Cheapair, etc, start accepting bitcoin.

[toknormal]

I doubt very much that sidechains will prove a satisfactory substitute for truly independent, free-floating alternative cryptocurrencies.

For a start, welding the "alt" into a pegged straightjacket in Bitcoin creates more problems than it solves because it needs to 'hijack' a portion of the bitcoin money supply to generate the alt-coins giving rise to all kinds of liquidity problems (in Bitcoin, by taking coins out of supply and in the alts by limiting their ability to respond to market demand).

Bitcoin is already deflationary enough as it is - the altcoin market is a very nice way to address the need for a natural elasticity, monetary growth
and technological diversity without bitcoin developers constantly hammering out code and hardforks. Bitcoin can still form the reserve currency which "backs" all other alts (it's already is doing that - we price the 'alts' in BTC).

Secondly, what you see right now is the market working: it's showing you what the future's going to be. In other words, you can bolt on all the "warts" you want to Bitcoin physically but there will always be an altcoin market. There's just too much diversity in the world to be able to architect the future into a single technology. It reminds me of the 1990's when Microsoft tried to monopolise the browser market by making Internet Explorer an extension of Windows so the user had "everything in one platform". Sorry - no can do, even though your the biggest technology company in the world with 95% of adoption, your never bigger than people's imagination.

Sidechains is the kind of idea that someone has as a metaphor for what the market's doing already. It's a nice idea as an economic model but not remotely implementable in practice if the crypto-economy ever gets to a significant size because markets will just blow it away with things like decentralised exchanges which perform the same function but without all the liquidity and technology restrictions of sidechains.

[Twipple]

Yes altcoins are distractions. But lets hope ethereum brings about a change next month.

[deepestfear]

That's also the position that some prominent VC's such as Fred Wilson of USV take
Incidentally, USV is an early investor in CB

[Q7]

To certain extent, I do agree that cryptocurrency future still lies on bitcoin. Altcoins though in the past have being used as a way to introduce new technology but unfortunately it has been severely manipulated especially those created as scamcoin. In a way or another bitcoin's reputation has suffer as a result mainly because when people view crypto, the first thing they will see is bitcoin and we are getting all the blame. It's time we go back to bitcoin.

[Beliathon]

Anyone who invests in any shitcoin - this includes "Lite"coin and Doge by the way - will be sucking dicks for satoshi dust within 2-3 years.

[World]

 I totally agree with him.

[GigaBit]

I guess he forgets the important fact that AltCoins, collectively, far superseede Bitcoin in total $$ trades.

He also forgets that many/most people only use Bitcoin to obtain AltCoins?

He also forgets (of fully understands) that his remarks only really benefit those with fat wallet?

He doesn't understand that Bitcoin has general appeal whilst AltCoins have niche appeal?

Although I'll agree that no-mining coins kill the purpose of cryptos, Bitcoin will at some point no longer be the "über alles" of cryptos.

So far all my predictions in cryptos have happened, so let me make some more crazy predictions.

Afloudist on that jackass!

Glad I don't trust them with any of my coin.

[ChuckBuck]

Coinbase CEO: bitcoin is far ahead! Altcoins are distractions!

Well he's NOT wrong!   

All altcoins are by nature, just copycat, pump and dump coins.  Pump the price a few points, gone tomorrow.  Gimmicky features, gimmicky logos, proof of stake 10%, oooh 10 second confirmation times must be good!

[Beymond]

That is Pretty right and straight forward

[Possum577]

I couldn't agree more, Bitcoin is the first and only. The others are just noise, wastes of time...

[HarmonLi]

I agree! If they do offer an advantage over Bitcoin, it is negligibly small. Bitcoin itself offers a lot of advantages and is itself something completely new compared to the traditional financial systems, it's got the first-mover advantage and doesn't need shorter block times or anything.

[BayAreaCoins]

Looks like a wanna be Bankster crying.

Coinbases "rick rolling" stunt was a HUGE red flag.  

I think they have some pretty serious issues going on.

[Beliathon]

This thread is like a who's who of shitcoin pushers.

[toknormal]

All altcoins are by nature, just copycat, pump and dump coins.  Pump the price a few points, gone tomorrow.  Gimmicky features, gimmicky logos, proof of stake 10%, oooh 10 second confirmation times must be good!

That's a very sweeping generalisation that does no justice to the complexity of the altcoin market.

First - there are 2 very different contexts in which bitcoin can be appraised:

[1] - monetary context

[2] - technology context

In other words, in a monetary context bitcoin can be perfect (meet all the requirements for high quality monetary medium - like gold does) but in a technology context it may not be (like gold isn't:not very portable and not very transmittable).

Even in a monetary context, however, bitcoin has 1 missing property: fungibility. The fact that coins can be tracked on the blockchain detracts from bitcoin's suitability as a monetary medium by adversely impacting on its fungibility. Several altcoins address this deficiency directly and there is no sense in which that feature can be described as a "gimmick". It is a fundamental property of sound money and the market will endorse that fact.

Secondly, although bitcoin's deficiencies in a technological context may not detract from its marketcap or monetary suitability, they will detract from its useability. There are all kinds of areas where this is true. Take, for example, the "shares" based algos where shorts in pegged digital assets are matched against a natural demand for stable currencies for use in retail. This is a fundamental monetary mechanism which has been in use in societies for eons. Despite that, there's no way bitcoin itself will ever meet that market requirement, it's a completely different monetary animal.

Nor are sidechains ever likely to meet these requirements because the idea isn't remotely scaleable enough for the reasons I outlined here (and even if it was it wouldn't address the demand for genuinely de-coupled alt currencies).

In my opinion, many alt coins haven't even approached 10% of their potential value against bitcoin. Some of them could well exceed Bitcoin in marketcap even if BTC remains the cryto "reserve".

We won't know until adoption takes off because while there's no widespread adoption the altcoin's technological advantage is redundant and speculative only.

With widespread adoption however, there we'll see entire markets for which Bitcoin simply isn't suitable for practical reasons - too slow, too precious, too transparent, too whatever. At that point, I expect that some of the alts will rocket in value to fill the gaps.

[ChuckBuck]

All altcoins are by nature, just copycat, pump and dump coins.  Pump the price a few points, gone tomorrow.  Gimmicky features, gimmicky logos, proof of stake 10%, oooh 10 second confirmation times must be good!

FUD FUD FUD FUD  ALTCOINS ARE THE SHIZ FUD FUD FUD

TLDR move on to DRK coin instead!!!

[saddambitcoin]

Monero is not a clone of Bitcoin and it offers something that Bitcoin does not - unlinkable & untraceable transactions using ring signatures. I find it useful and more interesting than bitcoin at this point.

[jimmothy]

I doubt very much that sidechains will prove a satisfactory substitute for truly independent, free-floating alternative cryptocurrencies.

For a start, welding the "alt" into a pegged straightjacket in Bitcoin creates more problems than it solves because it needs to 'hijack' a portion of the bitcoin money supply to generate the alt-coins giving rise to all kinds of liquidity problems (in Bitcoin, by taking coins out of supply and in the alts by limiting their ability to respond to market demand).

Not all sidechains will be one way pegged, like micropayments/merchant sidechains, therefore it won't reduce the coin supply. Though I've never heard of reducing the coin supply being a real issue as btc is infinitely divisible.

When sidechains increase the uses of bitcoin, the adoption should increase along with liquidity.

Bitcoin is already deflationary enough as it is - the altcoin market is a very nice way to address the need for a natural elasticity, monetary growth
and technological diversity without bitcoin developers constantly hammering out code and hardforks. Bitcoin can still form the reserve currency which "backs" all other alts (it's already is doing that - we price the 'alts' in BTC).

The only thing that sidechains couldn't do is change the distribution/monetary growth. But at this point I think the only people who feel those are issues are those looking to get rich quick.

Secondly, what you see right now is the market working: it's showing you what the future's going to be. In other words, you can bolt on all the "warts" you want to Bitcoin physically but there will always be an altcoin market.

Are you sure about that? Only a few months ago the combined shitcoin market cap was ~25% of Bitcoins market cap. Now it's closer to 10%. That would suggest the altcoin cesspool is shrinking and hopefully will be completely phased out.

There's just too much diversity in the world to be able to architect the future into a single technology. It reminds me of the 1990's when Microsoft tried to monopolise the browser market by making Internet Explorer an extension of Windows so the user had "everything in one platform". Sorry - no can do, even though your the biggest technology company in the world with 95% of adoption, your never bigger than people's imagination.

Sorry but that's just patently false.

Look at the internet, a single protocol which 99.999% of people use. There's no reason bitcoin can't become the internet of crypto and have innovations/inventions built upon it.

Sidechains is the kind of idea that someone has as a metaphor for what the market's doing already. It's a nice idea as an economic model but not remotely implementable in practice if the crypto-economy ever gets to a significant size because markets will just blow it away with things like decentralised exchanges which perform the same function but without all the liquidity and technology restrictions of sidechains.

Decentralized exchanges can only trade between crypto and only need to exist if shitcoins are a thing. With sidechains there would be no need for a decentralized exchange because you could seamlessly send btc from sidechain to sidechain.

Nor are sidechains ever likely to meet these requirements because the idea isn't remotely scaleable enough for the reasons I outlined here (and even if it was it wouldn't address the demand for genuinely de-coupled alt currencies).

Please do elaborate because you didn't explain at all how sidechains are not remotely scalable.

[pedrog]

And the flame war rages on, people is so predictable...

[jimmothy]

I guess he forgets the important fact that AltCoins, collectively, far superseede Bitcoin in total $$ trades.

Bullshit. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/volume/24-hour/

Bitcoin's trading volume makes up 83% of all cryptos trading volume. That percentage is only increasing as time goes on.

He also forgets that many/most people only use Bitcoin to obtain AltCoins?

Most people only use bitcoin to obtain shitcoins? What kind of fantasy land are you living in?

He doesn't understand that Bitcoin has general appeal whilst AltCoins have niche appeal?

Agreed. Altcoins have the get rich quick scheme niche appeal.

Although I'll agree that no-mining coins kill the purpose of cryptos, Bitcoin will at some point no longer be the "über alles" of cryptos.

So far all my predictions in cryptos have happened, so let me make some more crazy predictions.

Ever since I was born, every prediction I made has come true. (true story)

I predict that Bitcoin + sidechains will completely wipe out the shitcoin cesspool.

Afloudist on that jackass!

Glad I don't trust them with any of my coin.

Yea, why would anyone want to trust this legally compliant/insured/audited exchange backed by the NYSE, USAA, and BBVA, when we could be using one of the many shitcoin exchanges created by sketchy anonymous basement devs in their spare time.

[toknormal]

Please do elaborate because you didn't explain at all how sidechains are not remotely scalable...+ various other points

I'm not saying sidechains can't work - I'm saying you can't remotely expect them to displace alt coins because they are *not* altcoins.

Of course, nobody can know how this will all go in the future, but I think one of the things that characterises your view and doesn't mine is your comparison of Bitcoin to TCP/IP.

Such an analogy is a big mistake.

Bitcoin is not at all like the fundamental internet network layers. For a start it isn't an international technological standard, it is a private monetary brand. I wouldn't even liken it to a high level protocol (of which there are many such as http, JSON, SMPT etc).

The market can come up with new decentralised currencies anytime it wants and have them incrementally adopted. What matters isn't whether it's mechanically interfaced with bitcoin but rather that it's economically interfaced with it by way of a market value.

Maybe sidechains will have a future and maybe they won't, but I don't think it will have any bearing on the future for alts. Cryptocurrencies are already extremely fluid and interchangeable - far more so than fiat currencies. That fact alone implies there will be a comfortable co-existence to mutual benefit of bitcoin as a reserve and altcoins as a kind of "transport / liquidity layer".

Only a few months ago the combined shitcoin market cap was ~25% of Bitcoins market cap. Now it's closer to 10%. That would suggest the altcoin cesspool is shrinking and hopefully will be completely phased out.

It would suggest no such thing. Bitcoin lost 80% of its marketcap against fiat last year. Are you concluding from that that Bitcoin has no future, is "shrinking and..will be completely phased out" ?

And why are you calling it the "shitcoin market" ? Do you want to be taken seriously or not ?

Bitcoin has survived as long as it has because that altcoin market exists. Altcoins have demonstrated that blockchain technology is not limited to the monetary and technological properties that bitcoin alone exhibits. It has served as a stepping stone and a liquidity engine for bitcoin trading as well as all kinds of innovative tech evolutions. The reason its marketcap declined is exactly the same as the reason bitcoin's declined - speculative consolidation and profit taking. Technical development, innovation and market involvement however are more active than ever.

I don't know why I'm even defending this point of view because it's so self evident. The idea that alts are not going to have a huge role if the crypto-economy blows up is ludicrous. Of course they will - bitcoin has already been left in the dust by altcoin technology and sidechains are not even on the drawing board.

As I say - BTC will likely have the role of a cryptocurrency monetary reserve, but any alt that has a value measurable in bitcoin which is infinitely more practical in specific markets is not going to disappear.

[ChuckBuck]

I wouldn't even liken it to a high level protocol

Sure looks like a Protocol stack to me.

So what ? Bitcoin lost 80% of its marketcap

Uhm....is DRK Coin even trying to be a Cryptocurrency?

[toknormal]

Sure looks like a Protocol stack to me.

It may look like one to you but it isn't one.

If you can't tell the difference money and a communications protocol then I can't help you, but be advised that markets sure can.

[ChuckBuck]

Sure looks like a Protocol stack to me.

-rubbish-

[toknormal]

[jimmothy]

I'm not saying sidechains can't work - I'm saying you can't remotely expect them to displace alt coins because they are *not* altcoins.

I can expect exactly that. Sidechains are just altcoins without the get rich quick scheme.

Please do tell which specific altcoins features cannot be implemented as sidechains.

[ChuckBuck]

Nice, you finally see the light!  Please come over from the DRK coin basement where no one trades and no one outside of that basement knows it exists.  Step into the BTC light my liege!

[toknormal]

Nice, you finally see the light!  Please come over from the DRK coin basement where no one trades and no one outside of that basement knows it exists.  Step into the BTC light my liege

It might surprise you to find out that the majority of my crypto holdings is in BTC - not alts.

Like I said - I've always seen Bitcoin as being "the one" and have had plenty of arguments in the distant past where I took your side.

But things are not black and white. The last 2 years have told us somethings which we would be stupid to ignore. What they've told us is that the economics of crypto and the technical evolution of crypto are 2 distinct paths. The alts have carried the technology forward while Bitcoin continues to carry the value forward.

In the face of that you can't just say that "alts are dying". The advance they've made technologically over bitcoin is massive. Nor will sidechains address the technology issue because - as I've already banged on about - it leaves the market wide open for decentralised alt-currencies that are not sidechained to bitcoin but still carry bitcoin's value (like they are doing today). So all I'm saying is that however "nice" sidechains look from a bitcoin perspective, they don't look that great from a market perspective.

[Fiatcrisis]

To further some points I've read so far... altcoins pertaining to specific markets are useful & perhaps more practical. - This seems to be a common argument many are making and I would have to agree with it. An example is Amazons implementation of "amazon coins." They see the benefits of crypto, their high level execs which are paid millions of dollars a year decided it is most beneficial to create a coin rather than use an existing one.

And I think that's true for many niche markets. You can tailor the code as you see fit. For these reasons altcoins are not "distractions," but they will not replace bitcoin. Bitcoin is a first-mover and as such has experienced many issues that other second-mover altcoins were able to avoid. However, the future of crypto will be determined by the adoption of bitcoin. There are many people with great stakes in bitcoin and their push for mainstream adoption will couple with bitcoins inherent value to raise the price and further investor confidence

[calme]

Obama and other world leaders should give speeches to their nations about how all these damn alts are distracting from the BTC technology

[toknormal]

I can expect exactly that. Sidechains are just altcoins without the get rich quick scheme.

Please do tell which specific altcoins features cannot be implemented as sidechains.

That isn't the question. The question is "what altcoin would you *want* to implement as a sidechain". Sidechains are a solution looking for a problem - one which doesn't exist IMHO.

Take a look at this article: http://insidebitcoins.com/news/sidechains-could-turn-bitcoin-into-the-reserve-currency-of-the-internet/27132

The title of the article is "Sidechains Could Turn Bitcoin into the Reserve Currency of The Internet".

There are 2 problems with this title in my opinion.

1: A reserve currency is an monetary concept, not a technology one
2: Monetarily, Bitcoin ALREADY IS the reserve currency of the internet because all other currencies are priced in it on exchanges

Also, I wouldn't agree with the idea that "the real world tends towards one currency". In fact the real world tends towards diversity in all aspects. Just because you have "common" currencies doesn't mean they can't be diverse.

Re. this....

In other words, you have to deactivate bitcoins if you want to issue a new currency on a sidechain. This means that the new cryptocurrency is effectively backed by bitcoin. For example, you could freeze ten bitcoins and create 40 litecoins on a sidechain. Those litecoins then trade at 0.25 BTC rather than having their own exchange rate

...what's to stop the market independently valuing the sidechained alts where there are liquidity deficiencies in one sector and excesses in another ? I realise that Bitcoin's value just gets adjusted in response and everything evens itself out, but that's what happens at the moment anyway. I don't need to "lock up" any bitcoin to know that my alt currency is backed - I can see the exchange value in the markets.

Having sidechains dangling off Bitcoin just makes for a messy, ambiguous currency that's lost all its fungibility because some parts of the money supply are in demand and others aren't.

If you look at an alt currency like say Bitshares, you'll see that it already implements a concept like sidechains except much more elegantly in that it makes a proper distinction between economic value and technological value. Collateral in one currency is locked up against liquidity in another (just like sidechains proposes to do), there is no limit to the number of collateralised currencies (or "digital assets" as they're known) you can collateralise and they are potentially pegged (economically, not technologically) to a fiat value or other real world asset. The difference with bitcoin is that the Bitshares blockchain is *designed to support this economic model*. It supports all the mechanics required to properly collateralise and maintain the liquidity in the secondary asset currency. Not only that it can support a peg against an external asset (as opposed to sidechains which peg against bitcoin - the base asset) and allow it to inflate in exchange for a revaluation of the underlying currency.

All the sidechains concept is doing economically is backing an altcoin with bitcoin and guaranteeing the existence of the underlying collateral - something that can be done by 3rd party enterprises and markets (such as the Winky ETF).

[bcoinbilly]

This is great advice. Sidechains are an innovative platform that will takeover a struggling ecosystem when problems arise and keep it built up for future generations to prosper with.

[koelen3]

Maybe coinbase should try some Alts

Why should they?

He is perfectly right. Altcoins are parasites leeching off Bitcoin's success. They don't have any merits or advantages over Bitcoin.

Yes! they clearly do not have any advantage over bitcoin and they never will!
But also some altcoins just cannot be ignored like LTC , Doge ...

[Sindelar1938]

I think Armstrong is right about alts but think that side chains have an important role to play in making blockchain tech useful and scalable

[TheMage]

Whats going on over here? 

[Nagle]

Here's the world of alts, all 572 of them. How many still have active blockchain servers running? Below #294, MalibuCoin, the market cap is below $1000. Is anybody keeping the lights on for those losers? Somebody has to keep at least one miner running for each alt to keep its blockchain alive.

Below Bitcoin, Ripple, and Litecoin, it doesn't look good. Below Darkcoin at #5, there's so little volume you couldn't really trade them or use them.

Paycoin, at #10, is now down to 75 cents. Remember how the Paycoin price was going to be maintained above $20 by "strong hands"? Paycoin was a pump and dump; no question about that now.

[maurya78]

Amen to that, Brian. Well said.

[BayAreaCoins]

Here's the world of alts, all 572 of them. How many still have active blockchain servers running? Below #294, MalibuCoin, the market cap is below $1000. Is anybody keeping the lights on for those losers? Somebody has to keep at least one miner running for each alt to keep its blockchain alive.

Below Bitcoin, Ripple, and Litecoin, it doesn't look good. Below Darkcoin at #5, there's so little volume you couldn't really trade them or use them.

Paycoin, at #10, is now down to 75 cents. Remember how the Paycoin price was going to be maintained above $20 by "strong hands"? Paycoin was a pump and dump; no question about that now.

CLAM is a interesting one to watch that is bellow your "radar".

Everyone who had Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin on May 12th 2014 already has CLAM.

Interesting test of PoS based on PoW.

I don't understand why people dislike Alts.  I mean Bitcoin is a alt currency as well really and it is a good thing that most of these Alts base of their value against Bitcoin.  

Plenty of people buy Bitcoin just to buy alts as well or use Bitcoin to cash out.

[toknormal]

I don't understand why people dislike Alts.

+1

[cuddaloreappu]

Litecoin creator's comment regarding this

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/2x2f5z/charles_lees_response_to_brian_armstrongs_recent/

[Beliathon]

Like I said - I've always seen Bitcoin as being "the one" and have had plenty of arguments in the distant past where I took your side.

"Distant" past? When would that be, three years ago? Or four?

Calling it now, bitcoin will account for 99%+ of all crypto transactions within five years.

Don't let yourself end up as a bagholder for some shitcoin, reader. You've been warned

[croato]

Sure Bitcoin is and will be main cryptocurrency, i dont think lot of alts will survive in long run, maybe few with some fancy feature like anon or faster coins for small transactions when Bitcoin becomes big.

[bitpop]

Litecoin is a joke

[ChuckBuck]

Litecoin is a joke

You know Litecoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it:



The fact that Charlie Lee works for Coinbase, probably the largest Bitcoin based company, is a joke in itself.

[mayax]

Sure Bitcoin is and will be main cryptocurrency, i dont think lot of alts will survive in long run, maybe few with some fancy feature like anon or faster coins for small transactions when Bitcoin becomes big.

BTC is smaller and smaller.  aprox 200,000 unique BTC address are used per day. Part of these belong to the same owners(internal transfers). So, what is Bitcoin? Around of 100K users per day and a lot of media buzz

[bitpop]

Coinbase is a joke for hiring a shitcoiner, thankfully there's circle

[ChuckBuck]

Sure Bitcoin is and will be main cryptocurrency, i dont think lot of alts will survive in long run, maybe few with some fancy feature like anon or faster coins for small transactions when Bitcoin becomes big.

BTC is smaller and smaller.  aprox 200,000 unique BTC address are used per day. Part of these belong to the same owners(internal transfers). So, what is Bitcoin? Around of 100K users per day and a lot of media buzz

Wrong.

[mayax]

Litecoin is a joke

You know Litecoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it:



The fact that Charlie Lee works for Coinbase, probably the largest Bitcoin based company, is a joke in itself.

that's correct. they all are a gang. they all are related. Don't you see?

Charlie Lee(Litecoin owner) works for Coinbase. Coinbase has shareholders same guys who are shareholders for Bitstamp, BTC-China, Ripple and many others.
The same shareholders are the sponsors for many news media websites which promote Bitcoins.

Take the ones from the so called "Foundation"(Bitcoin developers) and you will find that they are connected with the exchanges and their shareholders as well. Not that they know each other but the are interconnected by running the same businesses.

Only a very stupid person should not see the facts.

[mayax]

Sure Bitcoin is and will be main cryptocurrency, i dont think lot of alts will survive in long run, maybe few with some fancy feature like anon or faster coins for small transactions when Bitcoin becomes big.

BTC is smaller and smaller.  aprox 200,000 unique BTC addresses are used per day. Part of these belong to the same owners(internal transfers). So, what is Bitcoin? Around of 100K users per day and a lot of media buzz

Wrong.

please read again my post. it's saying unique BTC addresses not transactions.

And even so, do you think approx. 100K transactions per day is a success after all the media that BTC had during these years? it's a failed project

Imagine that other payment system would have these media exposure...I think it will have millions of transactions per days and at least 10 millions users in 5 years.

[Beliathon]

Take the ones from the so called "Foundation"(Bitcoin developers) and you will find that they are connected with the exchanges and their shareholders as well. Not that they know each other but the are interconnected by running the same businesses.

Only a very stupid person should not see the facts.

Do you reject all technologies that have business interests promoting them, or only Bitcoin?

[ChuckBuck]

Litecoin is a joke

You know Litecoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it:



The fact that Charlie Lee works for Coinbase, probably the largest Bitcoin based company, is a joke in itself.

that's correct. they all are a gang. they all are related. Don't you see?

Charlie Lee(Litecoin owner) works for Coinbase. Coinbase has shareholders same guys who are shareholders for Bitstamp, BTC-China, Ripple and many others.
The same shareholders are the sponsors for many news media websites which promote Bitcoins.

Take the ones from the so called "Foundation"(Bitcoin developers) and you will find that they are connected with the exchanges and their shareholders as well. Not that they know each other but the are interconnected by running the same businesses.

Only a very stupid person should not see the facts.

Not sure what your point is, but sure I'll bite.

Dudes from silicon valley and dudes from wall street run in the same circles, so they form one huge massive circle jerk with splooge all over their faces.  Amirite?

In this threads context, I think you made a positive remark though, instead of your intended negative slant.  Synergy between tech companies and financial companies, and extending the ecosystem is always a good thing.

[ChuckBuck]

Sure Bitcoin is and will be main cryptocurrency, i dont think lot of alts will survive in long run, maybe few with some fancy feature like anon or faster coins for small transactions when Bitcoin becomes big.

BTC is smaller and smaller.  aprox 200,000 unique BTC addresses are used per day. Part of these belong to the same owners(internal transfers). So, what is Bitcoin? Around of 100K users per day and a lot of media buzz

Wrong.

please read again my post. it's saying unique BTC addresses not transactions.

And even so, do you think approx. 100K transactions per day is a success after all the media that BTC had during these years? it's a failed project

Imagine that other payment system would have these media exposure...I think it will have millions of transactions per days and at least 10 millions users in 5 years.

I'm guessing you're just ignoring the transactional graph that's trending in the up direction for a currency started 6 years ago...

[mayax]

Take the ones from the so called "Foundation"(Bitcoin developers) and you will find that they are connected with the exchanges and their shareholders as well. Not that they know each other but the are interconnected by running the same businesses.

Only a very stupid person should not see the facts.

Do you reject all technologies that have business interests promoting them, or only Bitcoin?

I can only see a big gang behind Bitcoin... having the same interests. money.

 It's OK but they are posing like being Messiah not a horde who looks for profit only.

I saw many so called BTC evangelists who wanted decentralization. no taxes, anonymity  but now they want regulations(so taxes, reporting).

[mayax]

Sure Bitcoin is and will be main cryptocurrency, i dont think lot of alts will survive in long run, maybe few with some fancy feature like anon or faster coins for small transactions when Bitcoin becomes big.

BTC is smaller and smaller.  aprox 200,000 unique BTC addresses are used per day. Part of these belong to the same owners(internal transfers). So, what is Bitcoin? Around of 100K users per day and a lot of media buzz

Wrong.

please read again my post. it's saying unique BTC addresses not transactions.

And even so, do you think approx. 100K transactions per day is a success after all the media that BTC had during these years? it's a failed project

Imagine that other payment system would have these media exposure...I think it will have millions of transactions per days and at least 10 millions users in 5 years.

I'm guessing you're just ignoring the transactional graph that's trending in the up direction for a currency started 6 years ago...

I am guessing that you are ignoring "Imagine that other payment system would have these media exposure...I think it will have millions of transactions per days and at least 10 millions users in 5 years"

If you think that 100K BTC users per day is a success AFTER all the media exposure then...it's without words

100K users per day has medium  online referral program     

[tss]

not just a distraction but gives crypto a bad name with all the scams, lies and pump and dumps.

[Beliathon]

I can only see a big gang behind Bitcoin... having the same interests. money.

I'm one of the many people supporting bitcoin. We are not a monolith. That said, most of us love reason and loathe violence, so calling us a "gang" is hardly fair.

I'm also an anti-capitalist and not in bitcoin for profit. Satoshi has not traded any of his/her/their BTC for fiat. If he was interested in money, he would have sold some of it by now.

[mayax]

I can only see a big gang behind Bitcoin... having the same interests. money.

I'm one of the many, many people "behind" bitcoin. We are not a monolith. Most of us love reason and loathe violence, so calling us a "gang" is hardly fair.

Satoshi has not traded any of his/her/their BTC for fiat. If he was interested in money, he would have sold some of it by now.

Alright, FEW persons are still decent...

When I say gang, I am referring to what i said above.

[jeffhuys]

I don't think altcoins will ever surpass bitcoin. I think bitcoin will be the "main" cryptocoin and altcoins can be used, for example, in games.

[ChuckBuck]

Sure Bitcoin is and will be main cryptocurrency, i dont think lot of alts will survive in long run, maybe few with some fancy feature like anon or faster coins for small transactions when Bitcoin becomes big.

BTC is smaller and smaller.  aprox 200,000 unique BTC addresses are used per day. Part of these belong to the same owners(internal transfers). So, what is Bitcoin? Around of 100K users per day and a lot of media buzz

Wrong.

please read again my post. it's saying unique BTC addresses not transactions.

And even so, do you think approx. 100K transactions per day is a success after all the media that BTC had during these years? it's a failed project

Imagine that other payment system would have these media exposure...I think it will have millions of transactions per days and at least 10 millions users in 5 years.

I'm guessing you're just ignoring the transactional graph that's trending in the up direction for a currency started 6 years ago...

I am guessing that you are ignoring "Imagine that other payment system would have these media exposure...I think it will have millions of transactions per days and at least 10 millions users in 5 years"

If you think that 100K BTC users per day is a success AFTER all the media exposure then...it's without words

100K users per day has medium  online referral program     

Does Bitcoin even have media exposure?  I don't know what the heck you're talking about?  Is there an ad campaign or TV spot you can point me to?  Did a commercial showing Bitcoin play during the Super Bowl?

You're not talking sense, man.

[Beliathon]

For any of you noobs who haven't seen this older Trilema post, it's relevant to this thread:

http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/

[bitpop]

For any of you noobs who haven't seen this older Trilema post, it's relevant to this thread:

http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/

Too bad mircea is a clown

[allthingsluxury]

ALT coins certainly aren't in the spotlight like they once were. A lot of bubbles, but its a free market and people are entitled to choose whatever currency they wish to use.

[Lauda]

ALT coins certainly aren't in the spotlight like they once were. A lot of bubbles, but its a free market and people are entitled to choose whatever currency they wish to use.

Sure, as long as they don't cry afterwards and say that Bitcoin is a scam, or cryptocurrencies in general, after they get burned in the altcoin market.

[Beliathon]

For any of you noobs who haven't seen this older Trilema post, it's relevant to this thread:

http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/

Too bad mircea is a clown

Clowns have feelings too, man.

ALT coins certainly aren't in the spotlight like they once were. A lot of bubbles, but its a free market and people are entitled to choose whatever currency they wish to use.

Sure, as long as they don't cry afterwards and say that Bitcoin is a scam, or cryptocurrencies in general, after they get burned in the altcoin market.

These scams do damage bitcoin's brand because average joe news listener probably doesn't make the distinction between any given shitcoin and bitcoin.

They don't yet know even the most fundamental Bitcoin (protocol) vs bitcoin (currency) or the fact that every altcoin from Litecoin on down is just a self-aggrandizing knockoff of Bitcoin (the protocol)

[toknormal]

These scams do damage bitcoin's brand because average joe news listener probably doesn't make the distinction between any given shitcoin and bitcoin.

Bitcoin is subject to just as many scams, lies and robberies as alts are - if not more. Scammers don't limit themselves to any particular generation of cryptocurrency.

Some people posting on this subject are like an obsessive bunch of howling hyenas...."it's gonna be bitcoin ! it can only be bitcoin !!...alts are scams !...there's only room for one..!

Put a sock in it and accept the fact that the world is a diverse place (and that includes the CEO of Coinbase who has no business attempting to quell the natural course of innovation as if it's some kind of threat to growth).

There are 500 odd altcoins out there - they aren't going away. Some of them will disappear and others won't. Scare stories about 50% attacks and rocketing difficulty "killing all coins except bitcoin" are hypothetical nerd garbage. These things get solved by the markets and the general evolution of technology.

Alts will grow in diversity and marketcap for no other reason than they have to and that bitcoin needs them. They will be backed by bitcoin's value but not its blockchain which would otherwise just get strangled in a spaghetti of mismatched monetary demand, code, technology and adoption.

It's nature. Accept it.

[moriartybitcoin]

he's a clown but he's right that altcoins are a waste of time.

[ajareselde]

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/569914763263606785

"Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains"


Seems he is a bitcoin maximalist!

altcoins are useless ripoffs of bitcoin, if bitcoins technology is to succed in some other project besides bitcoin, it certanly wont be some coin, but rather something entirely different.
people are sometimes confused with all the fuss about 999 altcoins, making them believe that bitcoin can be copyed,and for that reason has little value, but the hard fact is that only bitcoin has interest, comunity and infrastructure to make it, and all other alts are just feeding on bitcoin image like parasytes.

cheers

[toknormal]

he's a clown but he's right that altcoins are a waste of time.

 • so solving Bitcoin's lack of fungibility is a waste of time ?
 • improving on its epic 30 minute confirmation speed is a waste of time ?
 • exploring alternative inflation rates is a waste of time ?
 • testing un-mineable algos are a waste of time ?
 • supporting asset exchanges on a blockchain is a waste of time ?
 • addressing the need for a stable exchange with fiat is a waste of time ?
 • trying to match the demand for risk assets with stable currencies is a waste of time ?
 • addressing the need for contract rule-bases is a waste of time ?

If you really think that the Bitcoin blockchain or even sidechained cryptoes have a snowball's hope in hell of addressing all those demands - even on an experimental basis, never mind a production one - then I'd say stick with fiat because we're all at base camp and you've yet to look out the window.

[coblee]

Litecoin is a joke

You know Litecoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it:

The fact that Charlie Lee works for Coinbase, probably the largest Bitcoin based company, is a joke in itself.

You know Bitcoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it. :p

The "there can only be one" camp of Bitcoiners do not understand that altcoins supporters don't necessarily think that any altcoin will overtake Bitcoin in value. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe that Bitcoin will always be the "one" cryptocurrency, the crypto reserve currency.* But there will always be room for a few more cryptocurrencies that are adopted widely just like Bitcoin. These cryptocurrencies will have independent economic models and not pegged to Bitcoin and will have a free-floating market price. As toknormal said, the market has already decided that altcoins have a future. The market is smarter and more efficient that any one of us. You can say "shitcoins are dead" a million times, but that doesn't change the fact that Litecoin has a $60M market cap and that people are willing to trade them at ~$1.80 a coin today. This doesn't guarantee that Litecoin will survive in the long run. But one thing I know for sure is that there will always be altcoins.

For those that think Bitcoin and sidechains (pegged Bitcoin) will cause market cap of all altcoins to go to 0, do you also think that all countries should adopt the USD or peg their currency to USD?

* And that is why I work for Coinbase.

[Velkro]

For me its words of wisdom.
Whenever it cause someone got angry or not.

[darkota]

Litecoin is a joke

You know Litecoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it:

The fact that Charlie Lee works for Coinbase, probably the largest Bitcoin based company, is a joke in itself.

You know Bitcoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it. :p

The "there can only be one" camp of Bitcoiners do not understand that altcoins supporters don't necessarily think that any altcoin will overtake Bitcoin in value. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe that Bitcoin will always be the "one" cryptocurrency, the crypto reserve currency.* But there will always be room for a few more cryptocurrencies that are adopted widely just like Bitcoin. These cryptocurrencies will have independent economic models and not pegged to Bitcoin and will have a free-floating market price. As toknormal said, the market has already decided that altcoins have a future. The market is smarter and more efficient that any one of us. You can say "shitcoins are dead" a million times, but that doesn't change the fact that Litecoin has a $60M market cap and that people are willing to trade them at ~$1.80 a coin today. This doesn't guarantee that Litecoin will survive in the long run. But one thing I know for sure is that there will always be altcoins.

For those that think Bitcoin and sidechains (pegged Bitcoin) will cause market cap of all altcoins to go to 0, do you also think that all countries should adopt the USD or peg their currency to USD?

* And that is why I work for Coinbase.

Words of wisdom, makes sense.

[PenguinFire]

They are distractions when they are all based on the price of bitcoins.

[Lauda]

he's a clown but he's right that altcoins are a waste of time.

 • so solving Bitcoin's lack of fungibility is a waste of time ?
 • improving on its epic 30 minute confirmation speed is a waste of time ?
 • exploring alternative inflation rates is a waste of time ?
 • testing un-mineable algos are a waste of time ?
 • supporting asset exchanges on a blockchain is a waste of time ?
 • addressing the need for a stable exchange with fiat is a waste of time ?
 • trying to match the demand for risk assets with stable currencies is a waste of time ?
 • addressing the need for contract rule-bases is a waste of time ?

If you really think that the Bitcoin blockchain or even sidechained cryptoes have a snowball's hope in hell of addressing all those demands - even on an experimental basis, never mind a production one - then I'd say stick with fiat because we're all at base camp and you've yet to look out the window.

Everything listed could have been done, without leeching off of the market cap.

How are altcoins addressing this (bold)?

[toknormal]

Everything listed could have been done, without leeching off of the market cap.

Are you serious ? Leeching off what marketcap ? Nobody owns this market. Altcoins have attracted their own markets through distinctive technologies that others do not support. They haven't "leeched" off anything.

How are altcoins addressing this (bold)?

There are 2 "flavours" of fiat pegged alt currencies - 1 which uses supply restricted algorithms to manage the flow of coins to market and another who's blockchain supports the dynamic creation of pegged currencies by the matching of short and long positions in that currency - sort of like very granular banking.

In the latter case, as the adoption of the pegged asset increases, so does the value of the underlying collateral. This makes for a very elegant solution because it satisfies 2 disparate market requirements in a complimentary way - 1. The demand for risk assets which deliver a return on investment 2. The demand for a stable trading currency for use in retail and commercial markets.

You only have to look at coinmarketcap.com to see that they work:

[darkota]

Everything listed could have been done, without leeching off of the market cap.

Are you serious ? Leeching off what marketcap ? Nobody owns this market. Altcoins have attracted their own markets through distinctive technologies that others do not support. They haven't "leeched" off anything.

How are altcoins addressing this (bold)?

There are 2 "flavours" of fiat pegged alt currencies - 1 which uses supply restricted algorithms to manage the flow of coins to market and another who's blockchain supports the dynamic creation of pegged currencies by the matching of short and long positions in that currency - sort of like very granular banking.

In the latter case, as the adoption of the pegged asset increases, so does the value of the underlying collateral. This makes for a very elegant solution because it satisfies 2 disparate market requirements in a complimentary way - 1. The demand for risk assets which deliver a return on investment 2. The demand for a stable trading currency for use in retail and commercial markets.

You only have to look at coinmarketcap.com to see that they work:

.
The points you have presented are valid, LaudaM just lost $ trading Darkcoin, and is "mad" at all altcoins. Shame.

[Bobsurplus]

Here's my take on it!

https://twitter.com/EMC2Whale/status/570767517016309760

 

[ChuckBuck]

Dang, you know shit just got real when CobLee dusts off his Bitcointalk account trying to defend his invention!  

Not trying to incite an alt-riot, but shouldn't you focus your disdain on your boss and put him on blast instead?

It's your employer's words that brought about this thread.  Maybe prove your superior wrong, not the people here?

[bitcoin_bagholder]

Dang, you know shit just got real when CobLee dusts off his Bitcointalk account trying to defend his invention!  

Not trying to incite an alt-riot, but shouldn't you focus your disdain on your boss and put him on blast instead?

It's your employer's words that brought about this thread.  Maybe prove your superior wrong, not the people here?

Chuck knows better than to overly rock the boat. He's expendable.

By "Chuck", I mean Charlie(Chuck), not you, ChuckBuck. 

[mayax]

Litecoin is a joke

You know Litecoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it:



The fact that Charlie Lee works for Coinbase, probably the largest Bitcoin based company, is a joke in itself.

that's correct. they all are a gang. they all are related. Don't you see?

Charlie Lee(Litecoin owner) works for Coinbase. Coinbase has shareholders same guys who are shareholders for Bitstamp, BTC-China, Ripple and many others.
The same shareholders are the sponsors for many news media websites which promote Bitcoins.

Take the ones from the so called "Foundation"(Bitcoin developers) and you will find that they are connected with the exchanges and their shareholders as well. Not that they know each other but the are interconnected by running the same businesses.

Only a very stupid person should not see the facts.

Not sure what your point is, but sure I'll bite.

Dudes from silicon valley and dudes from wall street run in the same circles, so they form one huge massive circle jerk with splooge all over their faces.  Amirite?

In this threads context, I think you made a positive remark though, instead of your intended negative slant.  Synergy between tech companies and financial companies, and extending the ecosystem is always a good thing.

in the same circles is one things and running the SAME business is other thing.

Coinbase has shareholders same guys who are shareholders for Bitstamp, BTC-China, Ripple and many others. Don't take my words. Make a search.

You will observe that they own/share the same businesses; same exchanges, same news media websites(these are very important in promoting their shit).

Who? around of 6-7 people.

In other words, this gang is controlling the Bitcoin  

[jimmothy]

The "there can only be one" camp of Bitcoiners do not understand that altcoins supporters don't necessarily think that any altcoin will overtake Bitcoin in value. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe that Bitcoin will always be the "one" cryptocurrency, the crypto reserve currency.* But there will always be room for a few more cryptocurrencies that are adopted widely just like Bitcoin. These cryptocurrencies will have independent economic models and not pegged to Bitcoin and will have a free-floating market price. As toknormal said, the market has already decided that altcoins have a future. The market is smarter and more efficient that any one of us. You can say "shitcoins are dead" a million times, but that doesn't change the fact that Litecoin has a $60M market cap and that people are willing to trade them at ~$1.80 a coin today. This doesn't guarantee that Litecoin will survive in the long run. But one thing I know for sure is that there will always be altcoins.

For those that think Bitcoin and sidechains (pegged Bitcoin) will cause market cap of all altcoins to go to 0, do you also think that all countries should adopt the USD or peg their currency to USD?

* And that is why I work for Coinbase.

I don't see what point you are trying to make with your USD analogy. Fiat is a source of wealth for governments (printing money doesn't increase a countries wealth, but it increases the printers portion of the pie). Now why would China for example want to give the United States the ability to constantly decrease China's portion of the pie?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, why create entire new coins/distributions for every new idea/feature/use (micro/merchant transactions, smart contracts/properties, anonymous transactions, etc), when those features could simply be built upon Bitcoin's rock solid system/distribution?

[ChuckBuck]

Litecoin is a joke

You know Litecoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it:

The fact that Charlie Lee works for Coinbase, probably the largest Bitcoin based company, is a joke in itself.

that's correct. they all are a gang. they all are related. Don't you see?

Charlie Lee(Litecoin owner) works for Coinbase. Coinbase has shareholders same guys who are shareholders for Bitstamp, BTC-China, Ripple and many others.
The same shareholders are the sponsors for many news media websites which promote Bitcoins.

Take the ones from the so called "Foundation"(Bitcoin developers) and you will find that they are connected with the exchanges and their shareholders as well. Not that they know each other but the are interconnected by running the same businesses.

Only a very stupid person should not see the facts.

Not sure what your point is, but sure I'll bite.

Dudes from silicon valley and dudes from wall street run in the same circles, so they form one huge massive circle jerk with splooge all over their faces.  Amirite?

In this threads context, I think you made a positive remark though, instead of your intended negative slant.  Synergy between tech companies and financial companies, and extending the ecosystem is always a good thing.

in the same circles is one things and running the SAME business is other thing.

Coinbase has shareholders same guys who are shareholders for Bitstamp, BTC-China, Ripple and many others. Don't take my words. Make a search.

You will observe that they own/share the same businesses; same exchanges, same news media websites(these are very important in promoting their shit).

Who? around of 6-7 people.

In other words, this gang is controlling the Bitcoin  

Hmm, I know a pair of identical dudes that own 1% of all Bitcoins in existence, have a competitor exchange to Coinbase, don't own any stake in BitStamp, BTC-China, Ripple, and don't run in the same circles as these 6-7 people or have any link to these media outlets.

These 2 aren't part of this "gang".  I'm pretty sure their launching a Bitcoin ETF soon after their Coinbase competitor exchange.

I forget their names, it escapes me...what's their names again?!  

[Lauda]

They haven't "leeched" off anything.

There are 2 "flavours" of fiat pegged alt currencies - 1 which uses supply restricted algorithms to manage the flow of coins to market and another who's blockchain supports the dynamic creation of pegged currencies by the matching of short and long positions in that currency - sort of like very granular banking.
In the latter case, as the adoption of the pegged asset increases, so does the value of the underlying collateral. This makes for a very elegant solution because it satisfies 2 disparate market requirements in a complimentary way - 1. The demand for risk assets which deliver a return on investment 2. The demand for a stable trading currency for use in retail and commercial markets.

You only have to look at coinmarketcap.com to see that they work:

In my view, they have (taking in consideration the people I've worked with in the past). One could say that they have created their own market as well I assume.
Interesting. So you'e saying the current exchanges can be deemed as unstable?

Such contributions to the discussion definitely won't go unrewarded. Welcome to the ignore list.

[PenguinFire]

New crytocurrency in this day are not going to account to anything.  Maybe next year, or the year after but not in the short term future.  Does anyone agree? 

[TheMage]

This thread certainly disintegrated into the same dribble that always happens, and that is both sides yelling at each other with each side hoping they are the louder one ergo the correct one.


For anyone interested, here you go http://coinfire.io/2015/02/24/litecoin-association-director-challenges-coinbase-ceo-to-public-debate/



Would love to have the same discussion with anyone here if you would like too (without the yelling of course) .

[toknormal]

It's your employer's words that brought about this thread.  Maybe prove your superior wrong, not the people here?

I don't think you understand.

His "superior" would never be so unprofessional as to express such overt commercial dogmatism in public if it was genuine.

What that tweet was was a trial balloon to test the mood of the market and coax some informed opinion out of the woodwork to help him establish future business priorities  

[The Chainmaker]

Ripple and Stellar do suck. 

Just Coinbase alone is better than both of them combined. 

That isn't to say that Bitcoin will always be the best, but yeah, Ripple and Stellar get way to much attention. 

[koelen3]

Ripple and Stellar do suck. 

Just Coinbase alone is better than both of them combined. 

That isn't to say that Bitcoin will always be the best, but yeah, Ripple and Stellar get way to much attention. 

How is Ripple and Stellar connected to coinbase , AFAIK , Ripple and Stellar are payment gateways while coinbase is more like an Exchange and wallet combined , though it works as a bitcoin payment gateway for business's but i don't really believe that

[The Chainmaker]

Ripple and Stellar do suck. 

Just Coinbase alone is better than both of them combined. 

That isn't to say that Bitcoin will always be the best, but yeah, Ripple and Stellar get way to much attention. 

How is Ripple and Stellar connected to coinbase , AFAIK , Ripple and Stellar are payment gateways while coinbase is more like an Exchange and wallet combined , though it works as a bitcoin payment gateway for business's but i don't really believe that

I have USD and I need Euro's.  I go from US bank account -> coinbase -> buy bitcoin -> transfer them to my European Coinbase account ->cash out. 

In Ripple/Stellar I go from my US bank account -> Snapswap US -> buy my Ripple Snapswap USD -> ask the Ripple network and pray there is a good market maker that won't rip me off that will trade SnapSwap USD for SnapSwap Euro -> Send those snapswap Euros to SnapSwap Euro and cash out.  Oh yeah, and along the way I got to grant trust to SnapSwap and hope they don't screw me over.

Coinbase alone does a better job for getting USD to Euro than the whole Ripple network.  And there are lots of other options other than just Coinbase.   

[Hamuki]

If it wasnt for altcoins, then BTC would not be alive since over 80% of all transaction in BTC is from BTC to Altcoins or Altcoins to BTC.

[ChuckBuck]

If it wasnt for altcoins, then BTC would not be alive since over 80% of all transaction in BTC is from BTC to Altcoins or Altcoins to BTC.

Proof or link?  We'd like to believe you and all, but need some facts before you put some numbers out there.

[evansearle42]

If it wasnt for altcoins, then BTC would not be alive since over 80% of all transaction in BTC is from BTC to Altcoins or Altcoins to BTC.

This is not true lol. The altcoins are taking value from bitcoin because people are selling bitcoin in order to speculate on useless altcoins. Many people that trade altcoins simply keep their bitcoin on an exchange

[mayax]

Ripple and Stellar do suck.  

Just Coinbase alone is better than both of them combined.  

That isn't to say that Bitcoin will always be the best, but yeah, Ripple and Stellar get way to much attention.  

How is Ripple and Stellar connected to coinbase , AFAIK , Ripple and Stellar are payment gateways while coinbase is more like an Exchange and wallet combined , though it works as a bitcoin payment gateway for business's but i don't really believe that

I have USD and I need Euro's.  I go from US bank account -> coinbase -> buy bitcoin -> transfer them to my European Coinbase account ->cash out.  

In Ripple/Stellar I go from my US bank account -> Snapswap US -> buy my Ripple Snapswap USD -> ask the Ripple network and pray there is a good market maker that won't rip me off that will trade SnapSwap USD for SnapSwap Euro -> Send those snapswap Euros to SnapSwap Euro and cash out.  Oh yeah, and along the way I got to grant trust to SnapSwap and hope they don't screw me over.

Coinbase alone does a better job for getting USD to Euro than the whole Ripple network.  And there are lots of other options other than just Coinbase.  

Ripple has the same shareholders as Coinbase, BTC China, Bitstamp

[bitpop]

Forget Litecoin, why is Coinbase in a secret location? The photos are staged. Where does Charles really work?

[Beliathon]

Forget Litecoin, why is Coinbase in a secret location? The photos are staged. Where does Charles really work?

Is this in reference to http://blog.coinbase.com/post/82766793207/weve-moved-to-a-new-office ?

I'm confused, care to enlighten?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2x165r/coinbase_just_locked_my_account_and_demands_i/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2v02vm/coinbase_has_stopped_blocked_me_too/

You can keep your coinbase.

We'll also keep every satoshi of the wealth bitcoin siphons from your snakeoil shitcoin of preference, XMR over the next eighteen months.

This is the natural way of the market.

[Beymond]

This thread certainly disintegrated into the same dribble that always happens, and that is both sides yelling at each other with each side hoping they are the louder one ergo the correct one.


For anyone interested, here you go http://coinfire.io/2015/02/24/litecoin-association-director-challenges-coinbase-ceo-to-public-debate/



Would love to have the same discussion with anyone here if you would like too (without the yelling of course) .

Well! no ones shouting here , they are just giving their views quite violently
I would like to fill you requirement on non-loud ?
So what side are you on ? Altcoins are distractions or not ?

[bitpop]

Forget Litecoin, why is Coinbase in a secret location? The photos are staged. Where does Charles really work?

Is this in reference to http://blog.coinbase.com/post/82766793207/weve-moved-to-a-new-office ?

I'm confused, care to enlighten?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2x165r/coinbase_just_locked_my_account_and_demands_i/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2v02vm/coinbase_has_stopped_blocked_me_too/

You can keep your coinbase.

We'll also keep every satoshi of the wealth bitcoin siphons from your snakeoil shitcoin of preference, XMR over the next eighteen months.

This is the natural way of the market.

Yes that was a photo shoot, those offices don't really exist.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2tw4l0/coinbase_doesnt_even_really_have_a_sf_office_rick/

[solid12345]

Funny how everyone keeps calling alt coins useless, scams or shitcoins yet sidechains wants to steal all the ideas and innovation that has evolved from the alt market.  

Sidechains is nothing more than a ploy by BTC whales to save their investment, which is a ridiculous fear anyway because there is room for multiple cryptocurrencies, it's like saying there shouldn't be a Euro because the world has the US dollar.

[BayAreaCoins]

Forget Litecoin, why is Coinbase in a secret location? The photos are staged. Where does Charles really work?

Is this in reference to http://blog.coinbase.com/post/82766793207/weve-moved-to-a-new-office ?

I'm confused, care to enlighten?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2x165r/coinbase_just_locked_my_account_and_demands_i/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2v02vm/coinbase_has_stopped_blocked_me_too/

You can keep your coinbase.

We'll also keep every satoshi of the wealth bitcoin siphons from your snakeoil shitcoin of preference, XMR over the next eighteen months.

This is the natural way of the market.

Yes that was a photo shoot, those offices don't really exist.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2tw4l0/coinbase_doesnt_even_really_have_a_sf_office_rick/

From a Twitter of the CEO's it has been narrowed down that Coinbase might have their office in 444 Market Street (also known as 1 Front Street.)

I think they are full of shit.

Here is Charlies response to their office thing.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938514.msg10285298#msg10285298

Sounds 100% full of shit just like most everything else Charlie says when he is being full of shit.

Coinbase is nothing but Scammers, Leeches and wana be Banksters.  They want to hid in a secret office for a reason.

[solid12345]

Sounds 100% full of shit just like most everything else Charlie says when he is being full of shit.

Coinbase is nothing but Scammers, Leeches and wana be Banksters.  They want to hid in a secret office for a reason.

The fact Lee has worked at Coinbase for over a year now and hasn't convinced his superiors to accept Litecoin is telling. I think LTC was created to be a Chinese pump and dump by the Lee brothers, I never believed it when Lee said he only had "a couple" Litecoins.

[ajareselde]

Sounds 100% full of shit just like most everything else Charlie says when he is being full of shit.

Coinbase is nothing but Scammers, Leeches and wana be Banksters.  They want to hid in a secret office for a reason.

The fact Lee has worked at Coinbase for over a year now and hasn't convinced his superiors to accept Litecoin is telling. I think LTC was created to be a Chinese pump and dump by the Lee brothers, I never believed it when Lee said he only had "a couple" Litecoins.

Litecoin is worthess piece of bits and bytes, and the only reason for any value at all is because its related to bitcoin (as in, it is an alt)
People want to invest in bitcoin, they research, and tiny number that reads from bitcoin research finds out about litecoin, and decides to invest some cents in it, and since amount of bitcoin investments is
huge, that tiny bit of people actualy give litecoin value, until they realise that its useless.
This is how much people are actually interested in litecoin:



Any other altcoin is the same, more or less, and if you trully believe that some fancy extra options make it worth something, ull get burned the minute the organised pump and dump finishes.

cheers

[Btcvilla]

Altcoins do have advantages... One reason its hard to buy stuff (phyiscal buying it, not online) with Bitcoin is the confirm time, I would not wait an hour for my Bitcoin transaction to confirm so I can buy a coffee. I currently use Dogecoin because of its fast transaction times and for its great community. I used Litecoin too.

[solid12345]

Any other altcoin is the same, more or less, and if you trully believe that some fancy extra options make it worth something, ull get burned the minute the organised pump and dump finishes.

cheers

I disagree, there are great alt coins out there advancing blockchain tech everyday, one I am following with interest is Sapience which is building a decentralized database and AI scripting platform,  however I think Litecoin was just garbage, how does changing the algo and increasing the transaction speed make it worth $40 a coin at its height?

[mayax]

without China, BTC would be down

[FUR11]

The first mover advantage is far bigger than many people may even think. It's the single most important advantage Bitcoin has over any altcoin there is. And this advantage is so freakin' huge that there has to be yet an altcoin to bridge this gap. I don't think it will ever happen!

[TheMage]

This thread certainly disintegrated into the same dribble that always happens, and that is both sides yelling at each other with each side hoping they are the louder one ergo the correct one.


For anyone interested, here you go http://coinfire.io/2015/02/24/litecoin-association-director-challenges-coinbase-ceo-to-public-debate/



Would love to have the same discussion with anyone here if you would like too (without the yelling of course) .

Well! no ones shouting here , they are just giving their views quite violently
I would like to fill you requirement on non-loud ?
So what side are you on ? Altcoins are distractions or not ?

I'm Andrew, what do you think 

[ajareselde]

Any other altcoin is the same, more or less, and if you trully believe that some fancy extra options make it worth something, ull get burned the minute the organised pump and dump finishes.

cheers

I disagree, there are great alt coins out there advancing blockchain tech everyday, one I am following with interest is Sapience which is building a decentralized database and AI scripting platform,  however I think Litecoin was just garbage, how does changing the algo and increasing the transaction speed make it worth $40 a coin at its height?

who is to say that bitcoin will remain only as an value exchange? there is no limit to option bitcoin can take in its development if the market shows enough interes, and the allready built up infrastructure
would provide an instant kill to the opposing alt? the only thing bitcoin wont change for sure is the 21 mil coin max limit, everything else is there to be improoved, atleast i see it that way.
but i am sure that any service built on blockchain tech with some kind of virtual currency in it will be definetly left behind once the dust settles.

cheers

[tss]

Altcoins do have advantages... One reason its hard to buy stuff (phyiscal buying it, not online) with Bitcoin is the confirm time, I would not wait an hour for my Bitcoin transaction to confirm so I can buy a coffee. I currently use Dogecoin because of its fast transaction times and for its great community. I used Litecoin too.

you obviously dont actually have or use btc. 

you dont need to wait an hour to buy your coffee.  when i send my coin from wallet to wallet it takes seconds to show up as an incoming transaction.  you dont need to wait 6 confirmations for $2.50.

if i send a $1m across the globe it will be there instantly and confirmed within an hour.  no one can beat that,

[toknormal]

you dont need to wait an hour to buy your coffee.  when i send my coin from wallet to wallet it takes seconds to show up as an incoming transaction.  you dont need to wait 6 confirmations for $2.50.

if i send a $1m across the globe it will be there instantly and confirmed within an hour.  no one can beat that,

I think the point here that everyone's missing is this:

What happened 20 years ago when eMail started arriving on the scene en masse ? Did it kill the post office services ?

No.

What happened is that a whole new layer of communications fired up that wasn't there before. The post office continued to exists and flourish, it just didn't get any cut of the new "cake".

Similarly, alt-coins which are genuinely distinctive in the features they support will give rise to new markets which are supported by those features.

If you just look at things in terms of "what is money doing now ? = that's what digital currencies will be doing in the future" then you're of the mindset that says eMail is going to displace the post office and nothing more. The mindset that doesn't see incidental conversation as a market, that doesn't see mobile texting as a market, that doesn't see online eCommerce help as a market, that doesn't see realtime gaming as a market.

In dismissing the altcoin landscape as a "distraction", Brian Armstrong has exposed his vision as being categorically of that mindset because "sidechains" are no more than a proxy for bitcoin at a technical level. What's required are proxies for bitcoin at a monetary level which are liberated from it at a technical level.

That is the altcoin domain.

[koelen3]

Sounds 100% full of shit just like most everything else Charlie says when he is being full of shit.

Coinbase is nothing but Scammers, Leeches and wana be Banksters.  They want to hid in a secret office for a reason.

The fact Lee has worked at Coinbase for over a year now and hasn't convinced his superiors to accept Litecoin is telling. I think LTC was created to be a Chinese pump and dump by the Lee brothers, I never believed it when Lee said he only had "a couple" Litecoins.

Litecoin is worthess piece of bits and bytes, and the only reason for any value at all is because its related to bitcoin (as in, it is an alt)
People want to invest in bitcoin, they research, and tiny number that reads from bitcoin research finds out about litecoin, and decides to invest some cents in it, and since amount of bitcoin investments is
huge, that tiny bit of people actualy give litecoin value, until they realise that its useless.
This is how much people are actually interested in litecoin:



Any other altcoin is the same, more or less, and if you trully believe that some fancy extra options make it worth something, ull get burned the minute the organised pump and dump finishes.

cheers

Well said! litecoin is as worthless as any other alt

[bitpop]

Sounds 100% full of shit just like most everything else Charlie says when he is being full of shit.

Coinbase is nothing but Scammers, Leeches and wana be Banksters.  They want to hid in a secret office for a reason.

The fact Lee has worked at Coinbase for over a year now and hasn't convinced his superiors to accept Litecoin is telling. I think LTC was created to be a Chinese pump and dump by the Lee brothers, I never believed it when Lee said he only had "a couple" Litecoins.

This, his brother is pumping and dumping Litecoin in China using an exchange he owns, btcchina

[bitpop]

Altcoins do have advantages... One reason its hard to buy stuff (phyiscal buying it, not online) with Bitcoin is the confirm time, I would not wait an hour for my Bitcoin transaction to confirm so I can buy a coffee. I currently use Dogecoin because of its fast transaction times and for its great community. I used Litecoin too.

Typical ignorant pump lately also used by the paycoin scammers.

1 Bitcoin confirmation = 4 shitcoin confirmations

It's a joke, Dell isn't going to take a fucking light or dog coin. Or paycoin or xxxcoin, or quarks or any shitcoin. Shitcoiners only dilute their own investment by using alts, use one and you open the door to the current thousands. Go buy some foodcoin or weedcoin or cannabiscoin or hashcoin or boolberry, choose your scam.

Grow some balls and join one team, one community, Bitcoin. You're trying to fight us at your own detriment. Embiciles just like the paycoiners. Their greed cost them all their money. Idiots bought the fast confirmation bs. Guess what, Homero got your money and now you're giving it to Charles and his brother.

Guess what Litecoin is an alt of an alt, choose your shitcoin here http://mapofcoins.com/bitcoin

[toknormal]

Grow some balls and join one team, one community, Bitcoin.

Apply for a job at the EU Troika. You'd be well put to use  

(Alternatively you could "grow some balls" yourself and endorse technical innovation and market diversity).

[bitpop]

Grow some balls and join one team, one community, Bitcoin.

Apply for a job at the EU Troika. You'd be well put to use  

(Alternatively you could "grow some balls" yourself and endorse technical innovation and market diversity).

Sure let's support the industry scam innovator Homero garza

I'll stick to real innovation https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/571130787694841856

[toknormal]

Sure let's support the industry scam innovator Homero garza

LoL.

I don't have much disagreement with you there but I think your letting your Paycoin induced "red mist" colour your vision of an entire industry. Lighten up - there are also some fresh flowers in the garden.

I'll stick to real innovation https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/571130787694841856

Good stuff alright, but that's called "maintenance", not innovation to those of us that know anything about software 

[bitpop]

Sure let's support the industry scam innovator Homero garza

LoL.

I don't have much disagreement with you there but I think your letting your Paycoin induced "red mist" colour your vision of an entire industry. Lighten up - there are also some fresh flowers in the garden.

I'll stick to real innovation https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/571130787694841856

Good stuff alright, but that's called "maintenance", not innovation to those of us that know anything about software 

You just gotta remember that innovation especially to newbies is solely used to pump. We don't need that crap.

[picolo]

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/569914763263606785

"Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains"


Seems he is a bitcoin maximalist!

I see his point. Bitcoin has the better chance of success compared to any other altcoins. It even has a better chance of success of all other existing altcoins combined.

[toknormal]

You just gotta remember that innovation especially to newbies is solely used to pump. We don't need that crap.

With clueless remarks like that, I'm starting to think your avatar does you justice.

[Q7]

Altcoins do have advantages... One reason its hard to buy stuff (phyiscal buying it, not online) with Bitcoin is the confirm time, I would not wait an hour for my Bitcoin transaction to confirm so I can buy a coffee. I currently use Dogecoin because of its fast transaction times and for its great community. I used Litecoin too.

But it is not growing. Nobody is going to take a meme coin seriously and you expect some major brands or companies are going to accept some dogecoin? Let the bitcoin confirmation time stay at it is. If you are paying some small amount of money, as long as you already seen the first confirmation, I supposed, it's enough to move on.

[toknormal]

But it is not growing. Nobody is going to take a meme coin seriously and you expect some major brands or companies are going to accept some dogecoin?

This argument applies equally to Bitcoin.

The only reason it looks as if it doesn't is because we are like wee sardines in a tin and there's one big sardine in it. Meanwhile out in the "real world" they're dining on whale, squid, haddock, shark, cod, ling and sole.

From out there, all the sardines are still in the tin and they all look the same.

Mass adoption in Bitcoin as a store of value will lead to niche market adoption of alts as currencies because bitcoin simply isn't remotely equipped to serve as a currency on a day to day basis for many markets.

For a start, it's not stable against fiat - some alts are. It's slow as f*ck to confirm - some alts are fast. It's expensive and deflationary if you need a lot of liquidity - many alts are not. It doesn't natively support digital assets - some alts do. With bitcoin there's no transaction privacy - with some alts there is.

The world financial system is a huge place. It never has and never will been able to function with only 1 form of money or 1 currency. With the arrival of digital currencies it's only going to diversify.

[jimmothy]

But it is not growing. Nobody is going to take a meme coin seriously and you expect some major brands or companies are going to accept some dogecoin?

This argument applies equally to Bitcoin.

The only reason it looks as if it doesn't is because we are like wee sardines in a tin and there's one big sardine in it. Meanwhile out in the "real world" they're dining on whale, squid, haddock, shark, cod, ling and sole.

From out there, all the sardines are still in the tin and they all look the same.

Altcoins aren't sardines, they are parasites leeching off the one sardine. (bitcoin)

Mass adoption in Bitcoin as a store of value will lead to niche market adoption of alts as currencies because bitcoin simply isn't remotely equipped to serve as a currency on a day to day basis for many markets.

For a start, it's not stable against fiat - some alts are. It's slow as f*ck to confirm - some alts are fast. It's expensive and deflationary if you need a lot of liquidity - many alts are not. It doesn't natively support digital assets - some alts do. With bitcoin there's no transaction privacy - with some alts there is.

Why do you keep repeating this broken argument? Do you think that it will make sidechains go away?

Confirmation time - sidechains can have instant confirmations.
Digital assets - sidechains ALREADY does this. It's called Counterparty.
Anonymous transactions - sidechains can easily do this.

I get it, you love get rich quick schemes and sidechains is going to ruin that niche for you. But please try to come up with a better argument than "sidechains can't work because I said so".

The world financial system is a huge place. It never has and never will been able to function with only 1 form of money or 1 currency. With the arrival of digital currencies it's only going to diversify.

"The world of information is a huge place. There will never be 1 internet protocol." - toknormal

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=970687.0

Nice market astrology you got there. I too can make things up about graphs.

[pitham1]

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/569914763263606785

"Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains"


Seems he is a bitcoin maximalist!

I see his point. Bitcoin has the better chance of success compared to any other altcoins. It even has a better chance of success of all other existing altcoins combined.

People are still waiting for that one bright idea.
The altcoin which can emerge as a bitcoin killer.
That is why they keep investing in alts.

[Exther2]

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/569914763263606785

"Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains"


Seems he is a bitcoin maximalist!

That's just a Twitter of Brian Armstrong.
Bitcoin is #1, that's a fact, anyone can see that.
Stellar? That's not a coin, you cannot mine it.
Some serious alt coins are still in game and it is still Bitcoin leadership.
But once digital currency gets adopted, it will be clear which one will stay.

[Q7]

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/569914763263606785

"Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains"


Seems he is a bitcoin maximalist!

I see his point. Bitcoin has the better chance of success compared to any other altcoins. It even has a better chance of success of all other existing altcoins combined.

People are still waiting for that one bright idea.
The altcoin which can emerge as a bitcoin killer.
That is why they keep investing in alts.

People are there mostly to make quick buck and nothing else. It's not about the future of the new altcoin that matters but it's about who gets in first and who gets out fast and finally the difference is who ends up winner and the other bag holders. Sadly this has been the scenario surrounding all the altcoin thus far.

[uki]

People are still waiting for that one bright idea.
The altcoin which can emerge as a bitcoin killer.
That is why they keep investing in alts.

Which is fully correct approach. I think both communities (bitcoin-only and altcoiners) have the common root and should not waste time on meme wars. that brings nothing. Instead developing bitcoin on one hand and thinking about new solutions on the other is what will benefit all of us , in this so far,  fiat currency-based world.

[noelmal]

Litecoin is a joke

You know Litecoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it:

The fact that Charlie Lee works for Coinbase, probably the largest Bitcoin based company, is a joke in itself.

You know Bitcoin is a joke when it's lead developer and creator stops developing for it. :p

The "there can only be one" camp of Bitcoiners do not understand that altcoins supporters don't necessarily think that any altcoin will overtake Bitcoin in value. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe that Bitcoin will always be the "one" cryptocurrency, the crypto reserve currency.* But there will always be room for a few more cryptocurrencies that are adopted widely just like Bitcoin. These cryptocurrencies will have independent economic models and not pegged to Bitcoin and will have a free-floating market price. As toknormal said, the market has already decided that altcoins have a future. The market is smarter and more efficient that any one of us. You can say "shitcoins are dead" a million times, but that doesn't change the fact that Litecoin has a $60M market cap and that people are willing to trade them at ~$1.80 a coin today. This doesn't guarantee that Litecoin will survive in the long run. But one thing I know for sure is that there will always be altcoins.

For those that think Bitcoin and sidechains (pegged Bitcoin) will cause market cap of all altcoins to go to 0, do you also think that all countries should adopt the USD or peg their currency to USD?

* And that is why I work for Coinbase.

Words of wisdom, makes sense.

Strange reply from the forums biggest litecoin troll, author of the lets get as much attention for my psychological troll disorder thread "litecoin is officially dead" that deletes any positive litecoin posts?

[viboracecata]

All that altcoins' features can be merged to bitcoin, the only difference is the network power

[Enzyme]

All altcoins are useless and their features should be incorporated into Bitcoin.

The only coins which have a future are:
Dogecoin: Easy Adoption
Darkcoin: Anonymity and Instant TX.

[BayAreaCoins]

All altcoins are useless and their features should be incorporated into Bitcoin.

The only coins which have a future are:
Dogecoin: Easy Adoption
Darkcoin: Anonymity and Instant TX.

 

Dogecoin: Litecoins lil bitch that coughs up 3000 BTC a year fo eva.
Darkcoin: Yet another anon P&D coin.

[picolo]

All altcoins are useless and their features should be incorporated into Bitcoin.

The only coins which have a future are:
Dogecoin: Easy Adoption
Darkcoin: Anonymity and Instant TX.

Bitcoin is the best coin by so far that the coinbase CEO has a point.

[bitpop]

All altcoins are useless and their features should be incorporated into Bitcoin.

The only coins which have a future are:
Dogecoin: Easy Adoption
Darkcoin: Anonymity and Instant TX.

There's your problem, everyone chooses different shitcoin so you dilute yourself and waste money, effort, time, skill and marketing. While you give away your Bitcoin. There's a new shitcoin every hour.

[BayAreaCoins]

All altcoins are useless and their features should be incorporated into Bitcoin.

The only coins which have a future are:
Dogecoin: Easy Adoption
Darkcoin: Anonymity and Instant TX.

Bitcoin is the best coin by so far that the coinbase CEO has a point.

I honestly think there has to be a better option for a large group of people.

Bitcoin has some seriously fucked up shit with it atm.

I think Bitcoin just has the most blind cheerleaders who have become so used to the fact that some mystery owner out there has millions of Bitcoins for near free, No telling what MTGox actually walked with and who the fuck knows how much cocaine the USA Government actually sold for BTC early in the game.

Then you got the argument of the 1MB vs 20MB... I think Bitcoin is in a really good position to get what I call the "Blackberry Effect". 

It's not about a ALT vs BTC thing to me tbh. It seems like a contest with a lot of the alt tards or Bitcoin fan boy fgt wanna be banksters.

I do understand about the spreading to thin thing.  Altcoins are bad as far as that... That's why I fux with CLAMS that where given out for free to all Bitcoin, Litecoin and Dogecoin addresses that where over dust.  I see this move as a way to bring a lot of folks under one roof per say... which is pretty much what Bitcoins main power is anyways.  Proof of stake based on proof of work is a interesting way of testing PoS anyways at least.

As long as Cryptos work hand in hand to make each other better rather than see it as a contest I think it will make for a much better Bitcoin future.

[MilesJohan]

I thought altcoins were only used as proof of concept and for bitcoin to improve upon. I don't see them as distractions.

[OpenOcean]

With Coinbase's attitude, they're gonna get replaced by another exchange that understands Bitcoin is just as alternative a currency as any other altcoin, as the dominant currencies are FIAT(USD, EURO, etc).

Let's face the reality. Most "good" altcoin devs want to have a place in history, they want to make money, and they want to leave an impact on the world, and they can't do that through sidechains. Not to mention the huge economy based on other cryptocurrencie besides bitcoin, quite similar to stocks. Do you actually believe that they would give up on profitable trading for the sake of Bitcoin development? I think not. Bitcoin has flaws, and some people are out there to improve upon them down to the protocol level(Which is impossible to do with sidechains).

Good Luck Coinbase CEO, with that attitude I'm positive your exchange will not be the dominant one in the future.

If only for the sake of them wanting to have a place in history, and trying to do so by reinventing Satoshi's wheel, then I am going to have to go with Bitcoin and Sidechains.

Satoshi was smart enough to not let people know who he was so that everyone can remember than Bitcoin was not just about him being rich and famous (I'm pretty sure he's rich, and will be famous when he comes out after Bitcoin possibly becoming the status quo - at least he still had the patience to wait and test the waters).

Furthermore, making a Sidechain that solves or adds value is another way to have a place in history. To argue otherwise would be like saying all of IBMs achievements belong to Alan Turing. Yeah, IBM owes its success to the giants that shouldered them, but let's not be naive.

I am not for or against alt coins, but I am for utilizing cooperation. I think sidechains could do this.

[Joshuar]

With Coinbase's attitude, they're gonna get replaced by another exchange that understands Bitcoin is just as alternative a currency as any other altcoin, as the dominant currencies are FIAT(USD, EURO, etc).

Let's face the reality. Most "good" altcoin devs want to have a place in history, they want to make money, and they want to leave an impact on the world, and they can't do that through sidechains. Not to mention the huge economy based on other cryptocurrencie besides bitcoin, quite similar to stocks. Do you actually believe that they would give up on profitable trading for the sake of Bitcoin development? I think not. Bitcoin has flaws, and some people are out there to improve upon them down to the protocol level(Which is impossible to do with sidechains).

Good Luck Coinbase CEO, with that attitude I'm positive your exchange will not be the dominant one in the future.

If only for the sake of them wanting to have a place in history, and trying to do so by reinventing Satoshi's wheel, then I am going to have to go with Bitcoin and Sidechains.

Satoshi was smart enough to not let people know who he was so that everyone can remember than Bitcoin was not just about him being rich and famous (I'm pretty sure he's rich, and will be famous when he comes out after Bitcoin possibly becoming the status quo - at least he still had the patience to wait and test the waters).

Furthermore, making a Sidechain that solves or adds value is another way to have a place in history. To argue otherwise would be like saying all of IBMs achievements belong to Alan Turing. Yeah, IBM owes its success to the giants that shouldered them, but let's not be naive.

I am not for or against alt coins, but I am for utilizing cooperation. I think sidechains could do this.

There have been other digital "currencies" before Bitcoin, so Satoshi essentially reinvented the wheel as well. In fact, every invention that came after the discovery of fire and the making of the wheel, is what we deem "reinventing the wheel", as we base and grow inventions based upon what others invented in the past.

[bitpop]

With Coinbase's attitude, they're gonna get replaced by another exchange that understands Bitcoin is just as alternative a currency as any other altcoin, as the dominant currencies are FIAT(USD, EURO, etc).

Let's face the reality. Most "good" altcoin devs want to have a place in history, they want to make money, and they want to leave an impact on the world, and they can't do that through sidechains. Not to mention the huge economy based on other cryptocurrencie besides bitcoin, quite similar to stocks. Do you actually believe that they would give up on profitable trading for the sake of Bitcoin development? I think not. Bitcoin has flaws, and some people are out there to improve upon them down to the protocol level(Which is impossible to do with sidechains).

Good Luck Coinbase CEO, with that attitude I'm positive your exchange will not be the dominant one in the future.

If only for the sake of them wanting to have a place in history, and trying to do so by reinventing Satoshi's wheel, then I am going to have to go with Bitcoin and Sidechains.

Satoshi was smart enough to not let people know who he was so that everyone can remember than Bitcoin was not just about him being rich and famous (I'm pretty sure he's rich, and will be famous when he comes out after Bitcoin possibly becoming the status quo - at least he still had the patience to wait and test the waters).

Furthermore, making a Sidechain that solves or adds value is another way to have a place in history. To argue otherwise would be like saying all of IBMs achievements belong to Alan Turing. Yeah, IBM owes its success to the giants that shouldered them, but let's not be naive.

I am not for or against alt coins, but I am for utilizing cooperation. I think sidechains could do this.

There have been other digital "currencies" before Bitcoin, so Satoshi essentially reinvented the wheel as well. In fact, every invention that came after the discovery of fire and the making of the wheel, is what we deem "reinventing the wheel", as we base and grow inventions based upon what others invented in the past.

None were decentralized.

[Baghead]

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/569914763263606785

"Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains"


Seems he is a bitcoin maximalist!

If ripple distribution was better then it would not be in as bad shape as it is that is the only reason i would not buy into it, stellar is a good coin and good dev team better distribution and i think will have some big things happen in the future. All in all there are to many good altcoins to mention i would never say never about the top dog being knocked down a peg 

[bitpop]

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/569914763263606785

"Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains"


Seems he is a bitcoin maximalist!

If ripple distribution was better then it would not be in as bad shape as it is that is the only reason i would not buy into it, stellar is a good coin and good dev team better distribution and i think will have some big things happen in the future. All in all there are to many good altcoins to mention i would never say never about the top dog being knocked down a peg 

None of those are decentralized, they're coins made for banks. Don't fall for it.

[Baghead]

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/569914763263606785

"Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains"


Seems he is a bitcoin maximalist!

If ripple distribution was better then it would not be in as bad shape as it is that is the only reason i would not buy into it, stellar is a good coin and good dev team better distribution and i think will have some big things happen in the future. All in all there are to many good altcoins to mention i would never say never about the top dog being knocked down a peg 

None of those are decentralized, they're coins made for banks. Don't fall for it.

Steller is not for banks, and as i clearly said i would not buy into ripple. There are many good decentralized coins though that will shine threw in the coming year or 2. We just need to keep a eye on it which is easier said than done with the amount of alts that are out.

[Joshuar]

With Coinbase's attitude, they're gonna get replaced by another exchange that understands Bitcoin is just as alternative a currency as any other altcoin, as the dominant currencies are FIAT(USD, EURO, etc).

Let's face the reality. Most "good" altcoin devs want to have a place in history, they want to make money, and they want to leave an impact on the world, and they can't do that through sidechains. Not to mention the huge economy based on other cryptocurrencie besides bitcoin, quite similar to stocks. Do you actually believe that they would give up on profitable trading for the sake of Bitcoin development? I think not. Bitcoin has flaws, and some people are out there to improve upon them down to the protocol level(Which is impossible to do with sidechains).

Good Luck Coinbase CEO, with that attitude I'm positive your exchange will not be the dominant one in the future.

If only for the sake of them wanting to have a place in history, and trying to do so by reinventing Satoshi's wheel, then I am going to have to go with Bitcoin and Sidechains.

Satoshi was smart enough to not let people know who he was so that everyone can remember than Bitcoin was not just about him being rich and famous (I'm pretty sure he's rich, and will be famous when he comes out after Bitcoin possibly becoming the status quo - at least he still had the patience to wait and test the waters).

Furthermore, making a Sidechain that solves or adds value is another way to have a place in history. To argue otherwise would be like saying all of IBMs achievements belong to Alan Turing. Yeah, IBM owes its success to the giants that shouldered them, but let's not be naive.

I am not for or against alt coins, but I am for utilizing cooperation. I think sidechains could do this.

There have been other digital "currencies" before Bitcoin, so Satoshi essentially reinvented the wheel as well. In fact, every invention that came after the discovery of fire and the making of the wheel, is what we deem "reinventing the wheel", as we base and grow inventions based upon what others invented in the past.

None were decentralized.

Not the point. The concept of "e-cash" has been around since the 1990s. Bitcoin's very algoroithm, SHA256 was not developed by Nakamoto. So when people say "all altcoins are trying to reinvent the wheel", they're wrong and need to go do some research, because for all intents and purposes, Bitcoin is an "altcoin".

[bitcoinmonk]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

[Baghead]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

Which comes from someone who does not make money from alts because if he did he would know they are more than useless and they in fact a money maker. You are right about them being good for testing out new ideas etc but one of these will creep up before you know it, can't put a lid on better tech for long.

[Beliathon]

The "there can only be one" camp of Bitcoiners do not understand that altcoins supporters don't necessarily think that any altcoin will overtake Bitcoin in value. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe that Bitcoin will always be the "one" cryptocurrency, the crypto reserve currency.* But there will always be room for a few more cryptocurrencies that are adopted widely just like Bitcoin. These cryptocurrencies will have independent economic models and not pegged to Bitcoin and will have a free-floating market price.

All true, except you conveniently didn't mention that the "free-floating market price" of all these reinvented wheels will be free-falling down to zero as bitcoin matures.

[Beliathon]

There have been other digital "currencies" before Bitcoin, so Satoshi essentially reinvented the wheel as well. In fact, every invention that came after the discovery of fire and the making of the wheel, is what we deem "reinventing the wheel", as we base and grow inventions based upon what others invented in the past.

Flatly incorrect. Satoshi solved the byzantine general's problem, a solution which had eluded computer scientists for decades.

[gentlemand]

The "there can only be one" camp of Bitcoiners do not understand that altcoins supporters don't necessarily think that any altcoin will overtake Bitcoin in value. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe that Bitcoin will always be the "one" cryptocurrency, the crypto reserve currency.* But there will always be room for a few more cryptocurrencies that are adopted widely just like Bitcoin. These cryptocurrencies will have independent economic models and not pegged to Bitcoin and will have a free-floating market price.

All true, except you conveniently didn't mention the free-floating market price of all these reinvented wheels will be free-falling down to zero as bitcoin matures.

Sperm is a fun analogy. There are currently lots of swimmers furiously trying to get to the egg of mass adoption. Once the strongest fights its way in the rest will fall away or just swim around forlornly until they're dead.

[Beliathon]

The "there can only be one" camp of Bitcoiners do not understand that altcoins supporters don't necessarily think that any altcoin will overtake Bitcoin in value. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe that Bitcoin will always be the "one" cryptocurrency, the crypto reserve currency.* But there will always be room for a few more cryptocurrencies that are adopted widely just like Bitcoin. These cryptocurrencies will have independent economic models and not pegged to Bitcoin and will have a free-floating market price.

All true, except you conveniently didn't mention the free-floating market price of all these reinvented wheels will be free-falling down to zero as bitcoin matures.

Sperm is a fun analogy. There are currently lots of swimmers furiously trying to get to the egg of mass adoption. Once the strongest fights its way in the rest will fall away.

Well said!

[Joshuar]

There have been other digital "currencies" before Bitcoin, so Satoshi essentially reinvented the wheel as well. In fact, every invention that came after the discovery of fire and the making of the wheel, is what we deem "reinventing the wheel", as we base and grow inventions based upon what others invented in the past.

Flatly incorrect. Satoshi solved the byzantine general's problem, a solution which had eluded computer scientists for decades.

Satoshi did not solve the Byzantine generals problem. He "partially" solved it. It's fully unsolvable as of yet.

There's even a thread on that exact topic.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934626.0

Does HYPERLEDGER really solve the Bizantine Generals problem if it has to assume that 66.6% of nodes are trusted?

I can't say anything regarding this issue.

Well, maybe BGP is not solved yet. Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that Satoshi didn't solve BGP.

Yes, I already agreed to this. Bitcoin only solves the BGP if you assume the network isn't compromised. Strictly speaking, Bitcoin cannot solve the  Byzantine Generals' Problem, but neither can anything else with 100% confidence. This is why it is a "dilemma" or "problem"  and why researchers study probabilistic solutions to solving the Byzantine fault tolerance problems.

[inBitweTrust]

Brian Armstrong must have come to this conclusion after watching this interview with an altcoin developer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0

[bitpop]

Brian Armstrong must have come to this conclusion after watching this interview with an altcoin developer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0

That was a great interview

[ChuckBuck]

Brian Armstrong must have come to this conclusion after watching this interview with an altcoin developer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0

That was a great interview

Best I've seen so far.  Just spot on take by this alt coin developer.  They really get to the nitty gritty and technical focus of why Altcoins matter.

Bitcoin is I'm afraid doomed by this video's developer take on Altcoins.  

[Beliathon]

Yes, I already agreed to this. Bitcoin only solves the BGP if you assume the network isn't compromised. Strictly speaking, Bitcoin cannot solve the  Byzantine Generals' Problem, but neither can anything else with 100% confidence. This is why it is a "dilemma" or "problem"  and why researchers study probabilistic solutions to solving the Byzantine fault tolerance problems.

Strictly speaking, on paper the dilemma may remain forever "unsolvable". However, each and every day of bitcoin's existence, the problem of trust is solved in practice.

And it's getting bigger and more valuable.

[Btcvilla]

I use altcoins all the time (mainly just Dogecoin now). But its annoying when people who love these altcoins say it will take over Bitcoin, That will never happen..

[koshgel]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

They aren't useless but they don't present anything new that would overshadow Bitcoin.

[Herbert2020]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

at this moment, the only use any altcoin out there has is just to put money in a few people's pockets. if you see the price change of any altcoin, you can see lots and lots of pumps and dumps which a few people are getting rich by.

[BayAreaCoins]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

at this moment, the only use any altcoin out there has is just to put money in a few people's pockets. if you see the price change of any altcoin, you can see lots and lots of pumps and dumps which a few people are getting rich by.

Bitcoin is plenty corrupt and plenty of Pump n dumps... last one was cause of Coinbase actually and their Rick Rolling news.  I wonder if Coinbase tries to grab the lime light again on this little rise.

[picolo]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

at this moment, the only use any altcoin out there has is just to put money in a few people's pockets. if you see the price change of any altcoin, you can see lots and lots of pumps and dumps which a few people are getting rich by.

Most the use of most altcoins is indeed to make money to a small number of people.

[Beliathon]

Bitcoin is plenty corrupt and plenty of Pump n dumps...

What's the matter capitalist, the market leaving you butthurt? You don't like the game because other people have more pieces than you do?
Awwww, poor little guy, he still thinks he can win the game! I'm afraid there's no room for you at the top of the pyramid, my child. You will have to remain poor forever.

Harsh reality: If you're not already among the global wealthiest ten percent, odds are high you'll be getting poorer in the coming decades. Automation is a bitch of a thing.
This is the beginning of the end of the nation state and capitalism as we know it. Divesting everything from fiat is your only hope to survive the coming transition.

[ChuckBuck]

Very important video interview!  Brian Armstrong talks with Altcoin developers on how to integrate into Coinbase.

Must watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0

[Btcvilla]

Very important video interview!  Brian Armstrong talks with Altcoin developers on how to integrate into Coinbase.

Must watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0

My sides, that is just amazing, the best version of this is the Minecraft one.

[TheMage]

Very important video interview!  Brian Armstrong talks with Altcoin developers on how to integrate into Coinbase.

Must watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0

My sides, that is just amazing, the best version of this is the Minecraft one.

The vid was pretty damn funny (saw it last night btw unrelated to this thread).


Just an FYI, Brian never answered publicly as far as I know. But I have heard he would rather not take me up on my offer .

[pitham1]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

at this moment, the only use any altcoin out there has is just to put money in a few people's pockets. if you see the price change of any altcoin, you can see lots and lots of pumps and dumps which a few people are getting rich by.

Most the use of most altcoins is indeed to make money to a small number of people.

If an altcoin truly had an innovative feature, I am sure it will get adopted in Bitcoin as well.

[Btcvilla]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

at this moment, the only use any altcoin out there has is just to put money in a few people's pockets. if you see the price change of any altcoin, you can see lots and lots of pumps and dumps which a few people are getting rich by.

Most the use of most altcoins is indeed to make money to a small number of people.

If an altcoin truly had an innovative feature, I am sure it will get adopted in Bitcoin as well.

Burstcoin and Litecoin...

[TheMage]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

at this moment, the only use any altcoin out there has is just to put money in a few people's pockets. if you see the price change of any altcoin, you can see lots and lots of pumps and dumps which a few people are getting rich by.

Most the use of most altcoins is indeed to make money to a small number of people.

If an altcoin truly had an innovative feature, I am sure it will get adopted in Bitcoin as well.

Burstcoin and Litecoin...

Not trying to sound ignorant or an ass, but what is Burstcoin?

[gentlemand]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

at this moment, the only use any altcoin out there has is just to put money in a few people's pockets. if you see the price change of any altcoin, you can see lots and lots of pumps and dumps which a few people are getting rich by.

Most the use of most altcoins is indeed to make money to a small number of people.

If an altcoin truly had an innovative feature, I am sure it will get adopted in Bitcoin as well.

A layer on top might address something. The core development looks to be extremely steady from the outside. I guess it becomes more than an intriguing challenge if you know thousands are watching your every move.

[Possum577]

I couldn't agree more.

Alt coins are hobbies, bitcoin is for real.

[drotto]

People can use what ever form they like, but I would agree that bitcoin is the future right now. All other are just copies to the most extent. There may be a new currency that comes out that is superior to bitcoin that will take the lead, but for now my btc is on Bitcoin.

[MicroGuy]

He is is right though and I agree with him. The average Joe on street or even my friends have a hard time understanding bitcoin and the concept behind it. Now imagine explaining the reason behind crappy altcoins like jackpotcoin or potcoin lol.

What if this was the attitude when people first started using the internet and friends were learning about the first search engine.

Bitcoin needs the competition that altcoins provide to keep it striving to improve. Competition is healthy and highly beneficial to the consumer.

[duckydonald]

I think bitcoin is weak thanks to greed of the alt coins

[Q7]

Well, on a second thoughts maybe altcoins have it use after all. Imagine how boring it were to be if we can only trade between btc and usd. Trading does help to make the crypto scene become more livelier, more news event to write about and that's about it. In general I still think it brings more harm than good.

[Snail2]

Actually technologically NXT is far ahead of bitcoin...

[Beliathon]

I love that so many shitcoin pushers are shamelessly dropping their ads into this thread, like pigeons dropping their turds onto the heads of commuters.

You beautiful bastards are great.  I sincerely wish you all the best of luck in your respective scams. May you sell many shares and dump everything at the perfect moment, take the money and run! 

For all you boring non-scammers out there, best read this: http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/everyones-a-scammer/

[Daedelus]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

at this moment, the only use any altcoin out there has is just to put money in a few people's pockets. if you see the price change of any altcoin, you can see lots and lots of pumps and dumps which a few people are getting rich by.

Most the use of most altcoins is indeed to make money to a small number of people.

If an altcoin truly had an innovative feature, I am sure it will get adopted in Bitcoin as well.

You would never hear of it anyway, the mods ensure anything that isn't bitcoin (even good stuff like distributed computing) is swept under the rug and the forums sanitized. Add the mood music of "all altcoins are scams" and subliminal ignorance is the order of the day.

[shogdite]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

at this moment, the only use any altcoin out there has is just to put money in a few people's pockets. if you see the price change of any altcoin, you can see lots and lots of pumps and dumps which a few people are getting rich by.

Most the use of most altcoins is indeed to make money to a small number of people.

If an altcoin truly had an innovative feature, I am sure it will get adopted in Bitcoin as well.

You would never hear of it anyway, the mods ensure anything that isn't bitcoin (even good stuff like distributed computing) is swept under the rug and the forums sanitized. Add the mood music of "all altcoins are scams" and subliminal ignorance is the order of the day.

Wouldn't go that far, at least we've got an altcoin section here. There were discussions of getting rid of it completely so I think would should at least be grateful for that.

I'm still looking for a decent altcoin forum...

[Daedelus]

Altcoins are basically useless except for demonstrating/testing out new ideas or perhaps as a fork if Bitcoin got too corrupted.

at this moment, the only use any altcoin out there has is just to put money in a few people's pockets. if you see the price change of any altcoin, you can see lots and lots of pumps and dumps which a few people are getting rich by.

Most the use of most altcoins is indeed to make money to a small number of people.

If an altcoin truly had an innovative feature, I am sure it will get adopted in Bitcoin as well.

You would never hear of it anyway, the mods ensure anything that isn't bitcoin (even good stuff like distributed computing) is swept under the rug and the forums sanitized. Add the mood music of "all altcoins are scams" and subliminal ignorance is the order of the day.

Wouldn't go that far, at least we've got an altcoin section here. There were discussions of getting rid of it completely so I think would should at least be grateful for that.

I'm still looking for a decent altcoin forum...

If Bitcoin is developing it, you're allowed to talk about it. If Bitcoin isn't developing it, but might one day, but an altcoin is   Thread will last 2min, even if no altcoin is mentioned.

I posted a thread about ternary logic in distributed computing and it got moved to "Off topic" !!   Not even Technical discussion (I'm sure some would be interested in how Bitcoin could be adapted?) Protocol discussions are moved to altcoin, as though there is nothing that can be learned from other devs.

Innovation isn't considered a useful discussion, but you can have as many about how some guy no one outside this forum has heard of said a nice thing about Bitcoin  

A Crypto subforum, where bitcoin and altcoin discussions could intermingle would be a huge benefit to this forum. As long as "all alts are scams", few bitcoiners will go to the altcoin section. And any thread naming an alt is relegated to altcoin so as not offend the eyes of bitcoiners. So there will always be ignorance.

[achimsmile]

Actually technologically NXT is far ahead of bitcoin...

husshh, you wont find many open ears for technological advancement on this forum.

[Snail2]

Actually technologically NXT is far ahead of bitcoin...

husshh, you wont find many open ears for technological advancement on this forum.

Well, the altcoin scene is a real mix of a witch's brew and a cesspit but sometimes good things can turn up .

[Hazir]

Actually technologically NXT is far ahead of bitcoin...

husshh, you wont find many open ears for technological advancement on this forum.

Do you guys realise that we have good and sufficient technology already. Bitcoin does not need any drastic changes it is fine for today if we deviate from our goal - that is to make bitcoin global currency, and instead we will be technical purists and keep upgrading code, algorithms and other technical specifications we won't achieve anything really...

[Daedelus]

You speak as though technical advancement has no benefit.

Are those guys who work to make engines more efficient or develop new drugs with fewer side effects than existing ones or build taller buildings safer using less materials "technical purists"?


No crypto is perfect. But standing still isn't the solution.

[achimsmile]

Actually technologically NXT is far ahead of bitcoin...

husshh, you wont find many open ears for technological advancement on this forum.

Do you guys realise that we have good and sufficient technology already. Bitcoin does not need any drastic changes.

This is what I meant.

[Braino]

Saying there should be just bitcoin or that altcoins without technological whatever are a distraction is ridiculous. There should be lots of coins just like there are lots of fiat currencies or lots of anything else.

Thinking that bitcoin is the only one and should be the only one is blind faith so you deserve to lose your money when the real champions emerge.

Bitcoin is the proof that the system works, wait until the cloud of alts starts to turn into rain!

[Beliathon]

Actually technologically NXT is far ahead of bitcoin...

husshh, you wont find many open ears for technological advancement on this forum.

Well, the altcoin scene is a real mix of a witch's brew and a cesspit but sometimes good things can turn up .

DO NOT EAT THOSE BROWNIES. THEY ARE NOT WHAT YOU THINK!