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Author Topic: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs  (Read 64039 times)
jjiimm_64
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August 28, 2012, 07:12:53 PM
 #121

I think you make a valid point, and have done some good research.  

a couple of things come to mind in comment:

1.  It really doesn't matter to me if they glue a couple of bamboo sticks together. if it gets 40Gh and the hashes are accepted by pools, i will buy it.
2.  It sounds like you may be able to compete with BFL. Can you?

JIm

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August 28, 2012, 07:25:05 PM
 #122


I think you make a valid point, and have done some good research. 

a couple of things come to mind in comment:

1.  It really doesn't matter to me if they clue a couple of bamboo sticks together. if it gets 40Gh and the hashes are accepted by pools, i will buy it.
2.  It sounds like you may be able to compete with BFL. Can you?

JIm


Indeed.

I don't give a shit what it's made of or how it's made... so long as specs are met.

Actually, I'me even willing to give some degree of leeway on those specs.
kano
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August 28, 2012, 09:24:40 PM
 #123


I think you make a valid point, and have done some good research.  

a couple of things come to mind in comment:

1.  It really doesn't matter to me if they clue a couple of bamboo sticks together. if it gets 40Gh and the hashes are accepted by pools, i will buy it.
2.  It sounds like you may be able to compete with BFL. Can you?

JIm


Indeed.

I don't give a shit what it's made of or how it's made... so long as specs are met.

Actually, I'me even willing to give some degree of leeway on those specs.

Well it couldn't be HardCopy otherwise the following on their web site would be false:
Quote
The BitForce SC processor is the result of our long term development of a multipurpose SHA256 hashing engine in full custom ASIC.
Quote
Why ASIC?   ASIC is the final word in processor design.  There is no next step threatening to change everything.

... and it might matter, since, if it was HardCopy, it would mean that if someone else produced a full custom ASIC, then they would be able to surpass the performance of the SC line of hardware quite easily.

There would be a next step.

though ... is there already a next step after ASIC?
Or is ASIC quite simply the same performance as an AMD/Intel CPU production product?

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Inaba
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August 28, 2012, 09:43:07 PM
 #124

As far as I know, the next "logical" step beyond ASIC is a quantum computer.  I mean, you can expand the ASIC designs to accommodate higher hashrates / better efficiency but it's still ASIC.  Anything you design after that point is just variations on the theme, it's still a chip designed to do one thing very well, very fast. 

I think we're still a ways off from a QC that can hash Bitcoin. 

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
LazyOtto
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August 28, 2012, 10:28:02 PM
 #125

An 8088 microprocessor is an ASIC. So is a Pentium. So is this year's i7.

Are there any significant performance steps between them?
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August 28, 2012, 10:40:59 PM
 #126

Look at specialization. The BFL ASIC is a chip specially made for bitcoin mining. CPU, GPU and FPGA are not specialized for bitcoin mining. Nothing can be faster than a specialized chip, except another specialized chip made in a better way/with more transistors
jamesg
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August 28, 2012, 10:53:00 PM
 #127

except another specialized chip made in a better way/with more transistors

You can still expect mining power to double every 18 months with moore's law. Even with ASIC.
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August 28, 2012, 11:43:51 PM
 #128

except another specialized chip made in a better way/with more transistors

You can still expect mining power to double every 18 months with moore's law. Even with ASIC.

Agreed. The processed used (90nm?) is likely to not be too cutting edge so lots of room for improvements.
crazyates
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August 29, 2012, 12:20:34 AM
 #129

An 8088 microprocessor is an ASIC. So is a Pentium. So is this year's i7.

Are there any significant performance steps between them?

Yes, there are performance leaps and bounds going from a Pentium to an i7. But that's a CPU, a multi-purpose ASIC that as time goes on, is built to do more (not just faster, but more), and carry more and more instruction sets.

A mining ASIC only needs to do one thing - hash. You don't need to worry about newer instruction sets, larger caches, pipe-lining (do you?), or any of the stuff that makes a modern CPU so great.

An ASIC that only has to perform one function would be closer to a sound card, rather than a CPU. A sound card from 2002 will be able to decode an MP3 just as fast as a sound card from today.

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kano
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August 29, 2012, 12:40:36 AM
 #130

... put 100 or 1000, or even more, properly optimised double sha256 parallel lines in there ...

(yes simple proper optimisation of the double sha256 also increases the performance by 6.25%)

If you have 10 times the number in a BFL SC, then it will perform ~10x faster ...

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August 29, 2012, 12:55:24 AM
 #131

I think you make a valid point, and have done some good research.  

a couple of things come to mind in comment:

1.  It really doesn't matter to me if they glue a couple of bamboo sticks together. if it gets 40Gh and the hashes are accepted by pools, i will buy it.
2.  It sounds like you may be able to compete with BFL. Can you?

JIm


+1 other than anchovies(I hate anchovies), they can put anything in it

as long as it mines I don't care, why should I ?
BobbyJo
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August 30, 2012, 06:32:01 PM
 #132

BFL_Josh- you said earlier this week that you were going to concentrate on the BFL website this week, however, can you give an indication of when we will receive an update on the new ASIC products, expected delivery etc.

BFL_Josh
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August 31, 2012, 10:24:21 PM
 #133

I've updated the FAQ section to address some of the more common questions.  I'm also working on a few other things that are not publicly visible yet.  I had hoped to have them deployed this week, but it's already 17:30 here and I don't think I'm going to get to it.    I may work on it over the weekend.

With regards to the update, it is still on track.  As I've indicated in the FAQ, we still expect to start shipments in late October or early November (depending on stock levels) via the 1/3 plan. 

Gyrsur
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August 31, 2012, 10:26:41 PM
 #134

I've updated the FAQ section to address some of the more common questions.  I'm also working on a few other things that are not publicly visible yet.  I had hoped to have them deployed this week, but it's already 17:30 here and I don't think I'm going to get to it.    I may work on it over the weekend.

With regards to the update, it is still on track.  As I've indicated in the FAQ, we still expect to start shipments in late October or early November (depending on stock levels) via the 1/3 plan. 



so this means your ASIC is working or still under development?
ice_chill
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August 31, 2012, 10:36:24 PM
 #135

Wasn't the trade in deadline pushed back to something like March ? and now the FAQ says it's back to January ?
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August 31, 2012, 11:07:11 PM
 #136

Fixed the date, it is indeed 1st of March. 

Gyrsur, as far as the hardware development goes, that's not something we are commenting on at the current time.  We will put out a specific production update when we are ready.
lame.duck
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August 31, 2012, 11:13:25 PM
 #137

I think you make a valid point, and have done some good research.  

a couple of things come to mind in comment:

1.  It really doesn't matter to me if they glue a couple of bamboo sticks together. if it gets 40Gh and the hashes are accepted by pools, i will buy it.
2.  It sounds like you may be able to compete with BFL. Can you?

JIm


+1 other than anchovies(I hate anchovies), they can put anything in it

as long as it mines I don't care, why should I ?

And even if it doesn't mine at all, the japaleno will still warm your coffee. Wink
Gyrsur
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August 31, 2012, 11:15:45 PM
 #138

Fixed the date, it is indeed 1st of March. 

Gyrsur, as far as the hardware development goes, that's not something we are commenting on at the current time.  We will put out a specific production update when we are ready.

thanks for the statement! now I know it...  Wink
SgtSpike
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August 31, 2012, 11:36:01 PM
 #139

How did I miss being in on THIS thread for so long?

Subscribe to ALL the BFL threads!
AndrewBUD
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August 31, 2012, 11:40:42 PM
 #140

Wouldn't being open about your progress on these things net you guys more sales in the long run?

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