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Author Topic: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs  (Read 64039 times)
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September 03, 2012, 06:48:12 PM
 #161

First and foremost, I'm going to get customer service on track and then get production optimized and producing units as fast as possible.  I will also be examining our supply chain and getting that beefed up so we can meet demand going forward. 

I have a question about sending the hardware abroad. I live in Czech republic and I'm wondering if the people who ordered the BFL ASIC in USA will get it earlier because you will send it all in one batch or do you also take into account that you are sending it abroad and it will take a lot longer to get to us then to people in USA.

Thank you
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September 04, 2012, 12:26:43 AM
 #162

BFL_Josh:

After reading https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105494.msg1155021#msg1155021
Will the new BFL hardware have chip sockets if/and/or when they need to be upgraded, due to a change in the bitcoin algorithm ?

If not, what is the plan for those of us who have purchased the SC generation and are left with useless hardware?

IMHO I doubt that BFL would make their devices with socketted chips. There aren't really cheap sockets for the types of packages that they're probably considering (maybe QFN or QFP), especially for high frequency applications. If they wanted to do this their best bet would probably be going with a BGA and trying to source a press in socket similar to most modern CPUs. But, I don't believe BGA is a very popular package for the type of ASIC they will be creating.

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September 04, 2012, 04:24:07 AM
 #163

^^^  This is a really good thought.  Having replaceable chips would at least provide a modicum of protection against any unforeseen changes in the protocol later on.  Also, shipping would be so much simpler for BFL as well without having to produce another device, just send out the chips.
It'd be a terrible idea for BFL.  They have plenty of orders WITHOUT adding extra complications, why would they need to or choose to do something like this?  They have an effective monopoly on the market.

Once there's some actual competition in the market, one of the vendors might give something like this a try to get a competitive edge against the others in the market.
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September 04, 2012, 01:18:51 PM
 #164

It'd be a terrible idea for BFL.  They have plenty of orders WITHOUT adding extra complications, why would they need to or choose to do something like this?  They have an effective monopoly on the market.

Once there's some actual competition in the market, one of the vendors might give something like this a try to get a competitive edge against the others in the market.

Look no further: http://www.btcfpga.com/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=11&product_id=58

If it will be as modular as their previous option then BFL may need to rethink its strategy and not rely on monopoly.

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September 04, 2012, 03:39:32 PM
 #165

This looks promising. Is it available now? and how long does it take to ship? Warranty?
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September 04, 2012, 03:41:50 PM
 #166

This looks promising. Is it available now? and how long does it take to ship? Warranty?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79637.msg1157524#msg1157524

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September 04, 2012, 06:52:57 PM
 #167

This looks promising. Is it available now? and how long does it take to ship? Warranty?

Its a pre-order for November/December shipping dates.

1 Year warranty.
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September 04, 2012, 08:17:31 PM
 #168

BFL- Can you give us some idea of when we are likely to see an update?  It is less than 4 weeks until October, when you have previosuly stated that you would be shipping the first ASIC units.  Are you looking at early, mid or late Oct?  Are you still on track?  Some idea would be nice at this stage.

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September 04, 2012, 08:30:42 PM
 #169

BFL- Can you give us some idea of when we are likely to see an update?  It is less than 4 weeks until October, when you have previosuly stated that you would be shipping the first ASIC units.  Are you looking at early, mid or late Oct?  Are you still on track?  Some idea would be nice at this stage.

They've already quoted a late October/early November ship date. I can' guarantee you they will not be shipping on Oct 1st  Wink .

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September 04, 2012, 08:47:49 PM
 #170

With regards to sockets, the current generation will not have sockets.  It's wickedly expensive and error prone to put a socket on a board. That said, if something were to cause the units to be unsuitable for mining, we would not forget out customers and just say "Oh too bad, all your gear is worthless."  We would do everything we could to get people back into mining shape with the least amount of hassle and cost, just like we are doing with the transition from FPGA to ASIC.  We don't want to leave any of our current or future customers behind.

Quote
BFL- Can you give us some idea of when we are likely to see an update?  It is less than 4 weeks until October, when you have previosuly stated that you would be shipping the first ASIC units.  Are you looking at early, mid or late Oct?  Are you still on track?  Some idea would be nice at this stage.

I would love to give you a hard time frame, but I don't want to be caught in a situation where people quote back and say "You said you'd do BBB on YYY date" when there are many issues that might make that date change that are out of my control.  But I have already been in the planning stages of showing something off fairly soon, but no I'm not committing to a specific date as of yet.  But no, we won't be shipping on the 1st of October - it's late October or early November depending on stock levels come late October.

Things are looking really good though, we just shipped off a metric bucketload of FPGA singles today and we are almost caught up on that front, so our production facility is getting into nice shape and we will be able to crank out lots of ASIC units as well, so things are looking good and are on track right now.


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September 04, 2012, 11:23:23 PM
 #171

....But no, we won't be shipping on the 1st of October - it's late October or early November depending on stock levels come late October.

...
I purchased my BFL SC with bitcoin at a price of ~6$, ~4 months ago (knowing full well the price would rise) . Please do your best to make this extra cost worth it.

Having bASIC with an ETA of early November worries me too.
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September 04, 2012, 11:24:52 PM
 #172

I can't imagine you not being happy with the product when compared to any of the competition.
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September 04, 2012, 11:46:16 PM
 #173

I can't imagine you not being happy with the product when compared to any of the competition.

Actually - that statement is quite meaningless.
Do a VALID comparison and give reasons.
There is no comparison at the moment - and even bASIC has given out WAY more information than BFL regarding their product.

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September 04, 2012, 11:49:47 PM
 #174

I can't imagine you not being happy with the product when compared to any of the competition.

Actually - that statement is quite meaningless.
Do a VALID comparison and give reasons.
There is no comparison at the moment - and even bASIC has given out WAY more information than BFL regarding their product.

There isn't enough information (from any competitor) to even DO a valid comparison.

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September 04, 2012, 11:50:03 PM
 #175

What information has he given out that we haven't?  I'm honestly asking, not being sarcastic.
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September 04, 2012, 11:57:53 PM
 #176

What information has he given out that we haven't?  I'm honestly asking, not being sarcastic.
1) He claims to have a working prototype.  (Thus far unverified - but BFL has not even claimed this yet.)
2) He has explained the rough details as to how he came to have a prototype: Licensed RTL from overseas; hired design experts; fabbed chips at a shared wafer facility; etc.  BFL has stated none of this.

BFL has been a black hole of information other than price and estimated shipping date.  Please prove me wrong.

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September 05, 2012, 12:04:17 AM
 #177

Ok... so again, what information has he given out that we haven't?

Sorry, but a claim to a prototype and an explanation on how he came to have a prototype does not constitute additional information and definitely not WAY more information.

With regards to point 2, though, I had thought that it would be self evident in the announcement.  We have developed our own IP, it's not licensed from anyone and we have not hired our any of our work, it's all 100% original and not subject to potential lawsuits or potential licensing issues. 

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September 05, 2012, 12:13:19 AM
 #178

Quote
BFL- Can you give us some idea of when we are likely to see an update?  It is less than 4 weeks until October, when you have previosuly stated that you would be shipping the first ASIC units.  Are you looking at early, mid or late Oct?  Are you still on track?  Some idea would be nice at this stage.

I would love to give you a hard time frame, but I don't want to be caught in a situation where people quote back and say "You said you'd do BBB on YYY date" when there are many issues that might make that date change that are out of my control.  But I have already been in the planning stages of showing something off fairly soon, but no I'm not committing to a specific date as of yet.  But no, we won't be shipping on the 1st of October - it's late October or early November depending on stock levels come late October.

Things are looking really good though, we just shipped off a metric bucketload of FPGA singles today and we are almost caught up on that front, so our production facility is getting into nice shape and we will be able to crank out lots of ASIC units as well, so things are looking good and are on track right now.
If it's the difference between October and November ship dates, can I just request sooner rather than later?

Also, as long as pre-orders have been open, it'd be nice to see BFL shipping before competitors  Cool
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September 05, 2012, 12:14:57 AM
 #179

Ok... so again, what information has he given out that we haven't?

Sorry, but a claim to a prototype and an explanation on how he came to have a prototype does not constitute additional information and definitely not WAY more information.

With regards to point 2, though, I had thought that it would be self evident in the announcement.  We have developed our own IP, it's not licensed from anyone and we have not hired our any of our work, it's all 100% original and not subject to potential lawsuits or potential licensing issues.
Well, as far as prototypes go, do you have any silicon back yet that's testable on your end? Even a rough mock-up just for testing the wafer layout. Let us know what the specs on that are and if/how they're expected to change for production items.
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September 05, 2012, 01:36:55 AM
 #180

Ok... so again, what information has he given out that we haven't?

Sorry, but a claim to a prototype and an explanation on how he came to have a prototype does not constitute additional information and definitely not WAY more information.

With regards to point 2, though, I had thought that it would be self evident in the announcement.  We have developed our own IP, it's not licensed from anyone and we have not hired our any of our work, it's all 100% original and not subject to potential lawsuits or potential licensing issues. 

bASIC has specifically stated that it is Cell Based ASIC and even gone to the details of saying how they have produced the first chips.

bASIC has specifically stated that they have the chips already and is testing them in a prototype.

BFL's record on this has been to state that it is "Custom ASIC" back when they first released details and quoted figures for MH/s and USB power usage ... but given the BFL history of quoting devices existing when they were simply simulations, that statement has a high level of uncertainly - and seriously no details at all.
bASIC has stated that their performance figures are based on their existing prototype but BFL figures were given back in ...

bASIC has give a delivery date, as has BFL.

The ModMiner Quad was delivered to specs and close to timeframes, that BFL has never done and still states that you will get a BFL Single in 4-6 week which is still known even by yourself to be false.
I know someone who ordered one recently and then received an email stating 9-10 weeks ...

If we were to apply your clearly advertised history to the new ASIC production ...  you need to give better details than what you have - to consider your statement
Quote
I can't imagine you not being happy with the product when compared to any of the competition.
reasonable.

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