[Announcement] Butterfly Labs

[kano]

You are saying that "need" is something I am inventing, but you know as well as I do that without the support of the free miners, BFL would not be where they are today.

Except that while you claim to be inventing, you're forgetting that BFL support came from me, and you and Con only decided to fork it so that you could steal credit for it...
...

LOL, you got in there a little late.

BFGMiner was forked by you from cgminer. Simple fact. Please stop making yourself look ultimately stupid in front of everyone.

... though you stole the name BFGMiner from me also

Where have I or Con ever stolen credit for work you have done?
Where? Where? Where?

I can give a recent example where you have done that exactly to me - where you claimed credit over code I wrote since you had written code to do something similar at the same time ... and later retracted the claim ... and then later put my code in place of your own.

Yes you wrote the first BFL code in cgminer - we all know this - and I don't know where anyone has ever denied that or tried to take credit for doing that.

The closest I have done to that is that the Icarus code was originally copied from the original BFL code by Xiangfu, and then I fixed some bugs in Xiangfu's version and got it working ... and since then I have rewritten almost all the code in Icarus to fix bugs and problems and improve the performance of it and allow it to work on Cainsmore, Lancelot and other Icarus bitstream devices.

I haven't done all code changes, nor has conman/ckolivas or P_Shep or you or anyone else.
Simply go here if you feel the urge to work out who did what or who has done the most in each piece of code ...
https://github.com/ckolivas/cgminer

Edit: In fact, to put the bitforce-firmware-flash.c linux code you have in BFGMiner into cgminer, I went to a lot of trouble to work out how in git to move a piece of code from an unrelated git to another git - just so that the original code shows that it came from you ... you had it, not me - I'm not in the market of taking credit away from someone ...

[1714027375]

1714027375

[kano]

Hi Kano,

I'd like to clarify what has previously been clarified elsewhere more than once.  (maybe you missed it).

It's always been company policy to support as many software miners as possible.  We've paid coding bounties for specific features (Luke Jr) Serge & others, we have extended hardware availability and we have repeatedly offered log in access to equipment (both singles and mini rigs) to anyone wishing to pursue software development.  

We have enjoyed fruitful relationships with the developers of all the major software miners.  You're the only one who's been difficult in any way.  Everyone else including ckolivas has been helpful, kind and informative.  

Regarding the launch of ASIC, we have previously pledged early ASIC devices to ckolivas, ufasoft, bitminter & BFG authors.  

BFL

Hi Josh,
well my entire rant comes from the knowledge that BFL were only supplying remote access to their devices from software development and no devices have EVER been supplied to developers (without expecting the developer to pay for it)

I will also add that ATI do not care if no one was GPU mining - their profits from BTC mining GPUs must be so small that they are probably insignificant.

BFL, on the other hand, has been able to sell every items of stock they have (according to your comment above) and the developers on the different mining software are certainly a part of the reason for that.
Even with the minirig, it's a fact that BFL have only supplied remote access to get software development working on them.
It's not a big cost to supply a single MiniRig card to a developer, but that has never happened.

Yes it is a give and take issue - I just have only seen it as a take issue by BFL - who to this day still does not have a piece of mining software of their own - though as you have corrected me, you did pay Ufasoft to do their implementation.

I will also state the obvious, that you clearly seem to agree with as of yesterday, that developers having the hardware means the software is constantly tuned to increase the performance of that hardware.
When ckolivas has worked on BFL improvements (e.g. the LP abort code that I requested long ago but was not implemented until he did that - that I didn't do due to ... reasons ...) he has certainly not provided the optimum support for the BFL devices simply due to the fact that he doesn't have one. As simple as that.

Oh yeah - and e-penis size may or may not be important to some, but is certainly not relevant to cgminer ...

[Luke-Jr]

You are saying that "need" is something I am inventing, but you know as well as I do that without the support of the free miners, BFL would not be where they are today.

Except that while you claim to be inventing, you're forgetting that BFL support came from me, and you and Con only decided to fork it so that you could steal credit for it...
...

LOL, you got in there a little late.

BFGMiner was forked by you from cgminer. Simple fact. Please stop making yourself look ultimately stupid in front of everyone.

BFGMiner was forked from a cgminer that only supported CPUs and GPUs. Whilest Con was merging BFGMiner back into cgminer, I didn't bother with making independent-but-identical releases, but when he forked cgminer's FPGA codebase out from BFGMiner, I had to begin maintaining it independently. tl;dr: FPGA-capable cgminer is a fork of BFGMiner is a fork of GPU-only cgminer.

Where have I or Con ever stolen credit for work you have done?
Where? Where? Where?

Right in the post I quoted from. You were claiming to deserve stuff from BFL because you claim you wrote the driver for them.

[kano]

You are saying that "need" is something I am inventing, but you know as well as I do that without the support of the free miners, BFL would not be where they are today.

Except that while you claim to be inventing, you're forgetting that BFL support came from me, and you and Con only decided to fork it so that you could steal credit for it...
...

LOL, you got in there a little late.

BFGMiner was forked by you from cgminer. Simple fact. Please stop making yourself look ultimately stupid in front of everyone.

BFGMiner was forked from a cgminer that only supported CPUs and GPUs. Whilest Con was merging BFGMiner back into cgminer, I didn't bother with making independent-but-identical releases, but when he forked cgminer's FPGA codebase out from BFGMiner, I had to begin maintaining it independently. tl;dr: FPGA-capable cgminer is a fork of BFGMiner is a fork of GPU-only cgminer.

Eh? plenty of FPGA code was in cgminer LONG BEFORE BFGminer was created.
Seriously - stay away from silk road!

Where have I or Con ever stolen credit for work you have done?
Where? Where? Where?

Right in the post I quoted from. You were claiming to deserve stuff from BFL because you claim you wrote the driver for them.

Quote me - I'm not seeing it at all ...

[BFL_Josh]

You have absolutely NO CLUE the energy efficiency of my bASIC mining device (it is extremely efficient, and uses less electricity than the ModMiner Quad) and I have serious doubts that you even know the exact energy efficiency of your own device(s)

Furthermore the bASIC mining unit offers a minimum (un-optimized) 27Gh/s of Bitcoin mining speed which will very likely increase substantially with proper firmware and software integration once I get these units into the very capable hands of the Bitcoin communities best and brightest developers.

Now, I do not have the man power, or resources to equal that of BFL I admin that, but The reality of the situation is, the bASIC unit is very good competition for your mid grade SC Single unit and could meet or exceed the speed and/or energy efficiency of that device, and at this point it could not be proven otherwise.

I very much want to keep this competition friendly but we do not want to go down the road of trying to lie and spread mis-information about eachother. As I am sure you would agree it would not be good for either of us, so lets just stick to the truth on both sides until we actually have the cold hard facts ok Inaba?

Absolutely. I apologize for the making the comment (I would go back and edit it, but we've seen where that leads).  So someone quote me, quick, so I'm not accused of editing anything after the fact. 

But in all seriousness, I do apologize for the comment and I will refrain from guessing at your numbers until they are publicly available.

[Luke-Jr]

Except that while you claim to be inventing, you're forgetting that BFL support came from me, and you and Con only decided to fork it so that you could steal credit for it...
...

LOL, you got in there a little late.

BFGMiner was forked by you from cgminer. Simple fact. Please stop making yourself look ultimately stupid in front of everyone.

BFGMiner was forked from a cgminer that only supported CPUs and GPUs. Whilest Con was merging BFGMiner back into cgminer, I didn't bother with making independent-but-identical releases, but when he forked cgminer's FPGA codebase out from BFGMiner, I had to begin maintaining it independently. tl;dr: FPGA-capable cgminer is a fork of BFGMiner is a fork of GPU-only cgminer.

Eh? plenty of FPGA code was in cgminer LONG BEFORE BFGminer was created.

No, before BFGMiner, cgminer was CPU/GPU-only.

Where have I or Con ever stolen credit for work you have done?
Where? Where? Where?

Right in the post I quoted from. You were claiming to deserve stuff from BFL because you claim you wrote the driver for them.

Quote me - I'm not seeing it at all ...
[/quote]

You are saying that "need" is something I am inventing, but you know as well as I do that without the support of the free miners, BFL would not be where they are today.

[LazyOtto]

Absolutely. I apologize for the making the comment (I would go back and edit it, but we've seen where that leads).  So someone quote me, quick, so I'm not accused of editing anything after the fact. 

But in all seriousness, I do apologize for the comment and I will refrain from guessing at your numbers until they are publicly available.

However, you have yet to apologize to me.

I was trying to avoid calling you a liar, but the bottom line is you are lying.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97269.msg1181484#msg1181484

Or, I've missed it and ask you to please point me to your response.

[kano]

Absolutely. I apologize for the making the comment (I would go back and edit it, but we've seen where that leads).  So someone quote me, quick, so I'm not accused of editing anything after the fact. 

But in all seriousness, I do apologize for the comment and I will refrain from guessing at your numbers until they are publicly available.

However, you have yet to apologize to me.

I was trying to avoid calling you a liar, but the bottom line is you are lying.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97269.msg1181484#msg1181484

Or, I've missed it and ask you to please point me to your response.

Oh heck, why not throw myself into another argument

Seriously this one is over the top.

It's been going on for pages about something that is a pure technicality and nothing more.
Worse than mine

Apparently Inaba or BFL_Josh edited a post somewhere or reposted it under the opposite name.

Was it some evil take back of some comment made that turns out to be a lie and he's trying to cover for BFL now?
If not, get over it.

Even me, who can drag things on forever, has gotten sick of the liar argument

So what? Why do you care? Why does anyone care? Why is BluRay purple? Why do I only have one HDDVD that I can play in my HDDVD player? Why can't I wrote software to hash sha256 10x faster than the standard code ... oh wait ...

[P_Shep]

It's been going on for pages about something that is a pure technicality and nothing more.
Worse than mine

...debateable

So what? Why do you care? Why does anyone care? Why is BluRay purple? Why do I only have one HDDVD that I can play in my HDDVD player? Why can't I wrote software to hash sha256 10x faster than the standard code ... oh wait ...

I agree.

Shut it Lazyotto. No-one cares.

[LazyOtto]

Why do you care?

I care because it is an issue of principle and integrity.

Inaba/BFL_Josh unequivocally called me a liar.

I presented evidence for my statements. After which he went silent on the issue.

[kano]

Meanwhile - I keep posting replies to this.
I'm not sure why, other than I seriously wonder WTF he is talking about.

Except that while you claim to be inventing, you're forgetting that BFL support came from me, and you and Con only decided to fork it so that you could steal credit for it...
...

LOL, you got in there a little late.

BFGMiner was forked by you from cgminer. Simple fact. Please stop making yourself look ultimately stupid in front of everyone.

BFGMiner was forked from a cgminer that only supported CPUs and GPUs. Whilest Con was merging BFGMiner back into cgminer, I didn't bother with making independent-but-identical releases, but when he forked cgminer's FPGA codebase out from BFGMiner, I had to begin maintaining it independently. tl;dr: FPGA-capable cgminer is a fork of BFGMiner is a fork of GPU-only cgminer.

Eh? plenty of FPGA code was in cgminer LONG BEFORE BFGminer was created.

No, before BFGMiner, cgminer was CPU/GPU-only.

Seriously dude? WTF are you talking about?

The BFGMiner thread was created April 26, 2012, 10:53:51 PM
I came up with the name BFGMiner in IRC 01-Mar-2012 (UTC+11):

14:18 < kanoi> BFGMiner?
...
14:19 < kanoi> B for bitcoin of course
...
14:19 < kanoi> BFG the most well known acronym to FPS'ers
14:20 < kanoi> but also Bitcoin FPGA GPU


The original BFL code you wrote went into cgminer:
5dfc8b69 » luke-jr 2012-01-08 BitForce FPGA support

Again - WTF drugs are you taking? Stay away from silk road!!!

Where have I or Con ever stolen credit for work you have done?
Where? Where? Where?

Right in the post I quoted from. You were claiming to deserve stuff from BFL because you claim you wrote the driver for them.

Quote me - I'm not seeing it at all ...

You are saying that "need" is something I am inventing, but you know as well as I do that without the support of the free miners, BFL would not be where they are today.

I think that quote right in the middle of it explains why I'm still wondering what on earth you are talking about!

Hell, if you look back I also said that they should send one to ckolivas and put me in the corner for being bad
I'm not claiming any of this phantasy you are indulging in - stop it - I don't want to reply any more on this subject either - stop it!
It's all there in front of you - just read it.
My argument was not specifically about me even ... it was about free miner software developers in general (as the quote above says!)
If that wasn't obvious, then go re-read all my posts again (OMG who would want to do that ;P)

[Luke-Jr]

BFGMiner was forked by you from cgminer. Simple fact. Please stop making yourself look ultimately stupid in front of everyone.

BFGMiner was forked from a cgminer that only supported CPUs and GPUs. Whilest Con was merging BFGMiner back into cgminer, I didn't bother with making independent-but-identical releases, but when he forked cgminer's FPGA codebase out from BFGMiner, I had to begin maintaining it independently. tl;dr: FPGA-capable cgminer is a fork of BFGMiner is a fork of GPU-only cgminer.

Eh? plenty of FPGA code was in cgminer LONG BEFORE BFGminer was created.

No, before BFGMiner, cgminer was CPU/GPU-only.

Seriously dude? WTF are you talking about?

The BFGMiner thread was created April 26, 2012, 10:53:51 PM
I came up with the name BFGMiner in IRC 01-Mar-2012 (UTC+11):

14:18 < kanoi> BFGMiner?
...
14:19 < kanoi> B for bitcoin of course
...
14:19 < kanoi> BFG the most well known acronym to FPS'ers
14:20 < kanoi> but also Bitcoin FPGA GPU


The original BFL code you wrote went into cgminer:
5dfc8b69 » luke-jr 2012-01-08 BitForce FPGA support

BFGMiner started on 2012-01-05 with me replacing the CPU and GPU miner threads with a device driver API (845961a..b9d197d). I'm well aware cgminer merged BFGMiner's changes up until Con forked it around when BFL announced ASICs. I obviously had no reason to make a thread or binaries until that point - it would have been redundant. Perhaps in hind-sight it would have made things easier when Con and you decided to stop merging, to have done that from the start.
While it's a bit cute how you think you came up with the name, you have it wrong: it's St. Barbara's FPGA/GPU Miner; St. Barbara is the patron Saint of mathematicians and miners - quite a nice fit to go along with St. Eligius (patron of coin minters and coin collectors).

[kano]

BFGMiner was forked by you from cgminer. Simple fact. Please stop making yourself look ultimately stupid in front of everyone.

BFGMiner was forked from a cgminer that only supported CPUs and GPUs. Whilest Con was merging BFGMiner back into cgminer, I didn't bother with making independent-but-identical releases, but when he forked cgminer's FPGA codebase out from BFGMiner, I had to begin maintaining it independently. tl;dr: FPGA-capable cgminer is a fork of BFGMiner is a fork of GPU-only cgminer.

Eh? plenty of FPGA code was in cgminer LONG BEFORE BFGminer was created.

No, before BFGMiner, cgminer was CPU/GPU-only.

Seriously dude? WTF are you talking about?

The BFGMiner thread was created April 26, 2012, 10:53:51 PM
I came up with the name BFGMiner in IRC 01-Mar-2012 (UTC+11):

14:18 < kanoi> BFGMiner?
...
14:19 < kanoi> B for bitcoin of course
...
14:19 < kanoi> BFG the most well known acronym to FPS'ers
14:20 < kanoi> but also Bitcoin FPGA GPU


The original BFL code you wrote went into cgminer:
5dfc8b69 » luke-jr 2012-01-08 BitForce FPGA support

BFGMiner started on 2012-01-05 with me replacing the CPU and GPU miner threads with a device driver API (845961a..b9d197d). I'm well aware cgminer merged BFGMiner's changes up until Con forked it around when BFL announced ASICs. I obviously had no reason to make a thread or binaries until that point - it would have been redundant. Perhaps in hind-sight it would have made things easier when Con and you decided to stop merging, to have done that from the start.
While it's a bit cute how you think you came up with the name, you have it wrong: it's St. Barbara's FPGA/GPU Miner; St. Barbara is the patron Saint of mathematicians and miners - quite a nice fit to go along with St. Eligius (patron of coin minters and coin collectors).

Ignoring the MANY others fork comments by Jesus, that I have in my IRC log before this (yes MANY) this one is about as clear as it gets:
Mon Jun 04 00:05:38 2012 (UTC+10)
08:38 < luke-jr> I had no choice but to fork when you let kano revert all my Icarus fixes so it no longer worked for me

[davidspitzer]

And know for something completely different...

BFL,

When you ship the ASIC's will you also have EasyMiner rev'd up so it can mine directly. I may be in the minority but I do not relish thought of poking around with compiling software and tweaking ini files trying to get the ASIC's to mine.  I am hoping that you will ship a complete "turn-Key" setup. Others can use what ever software they wish but I wanted to pass along my thoughts as many I have talked to, just want to invest in your solutions without spending an inordinate amount of time with setup. If not please help Bitminter get its client working with your new ASIC's before you ship  - For me plugging into a USB hub and hitting a big start button is sublime.

Just my 2 cents or my .226 BTC


I have 10 of your SC singles and 10 of Jalapeno's on order - I am looking forward to seeing them in action

Thanks,

David

[SgtSpike]

And know for something completely different...

BFL,

When you ship the ASIC's will you also have EasyMiner rev'd up so it can mine directly. I may be in the minority but I do not relish thought of poking around with compiling software and tweaking ini files trying to get the ASIC's to mine.  I am hoping that you will ship a complete "turn-Key" setup. Others can use what ever software they wish but I wanted to pass along my thoughts as many I have talked to, just want to invest in your solutions without spending an inordinate amount of time with setup. If not please help Bitminter get its client working with your new ASIC's before you ship  - For me plugging into a USB hub and hitting a big start button is sublime.

Just my 2 cents or my .226 BTC


I have 10 of your SC singles and 10 of Jalapeno's on order - I am looking forward to seeing them in action

Thanks,

David

Use Bitminter then.  It's pretty much "plugging into a USB hub and hitting a bit start button".

[davidspitzer]

And know for something completely different...

BFL,

When you ship the ASIC's will you also have EasyMiner rev'd up so it can mine directly. I may be in the minority but I do not relish thought of poking around with compiling software and tweaking ini files trying to get the ASIC's to mine.  I am hoping that you will ship a complete "turn-Key" setup. Others can use what ever software they wish but I wanted to pass along my thoughts as many I have talked to, just want to invest in your solutions without spending an inordinate amount of time with setup. If not please help Bitminter get its client working with your new ASIC's before you ship  - For me plugging into a USB hub and hitting a big start button is sublime.

Just my 2 cents or my .226 BTC


I have 10 of your SC singles and 10 of Jalapeno's on order - I am looking forward to seeing them in action

Thanks,

David

Use Bitminter then.  It's pretty much "plugging into a USB hub and hitting a bit start button".

yes, I use it now  - great software - I was just mentioning it would be nice to have Easyminer also working for people who use other pools but want a turn key solution  - also It depends on BTC assisting Bitminter client software to be ready before the shipment of the ASICs, or have their own solution. It will be depressing to have a whole pile of ASICS and no quick and easy way to get them up and mining.

[Mobius]

And know for something completely different...

BFL,

When you ship the ASIC's will you also have EasyMiner rev'd up so it can mine directly. I may be in the minority but I do not relish thought of poking around with compiling software and tweaking ini files trying to get the ASIC's to mine.  I am hoping that you will ship a complete "turn-Key" setup. Others can use what ever software they wish but I wanted to pass along my thoughts as many I have talked to, just want to invest in your solutions without spending an inordinate amount of time with setup. If not please help Bitminter get its client working with your new ASIC's before you ship  - For me plugging into a USB hub and hitting a big start button is sublime.

Just my 2 cents or my .226 BTC


I have 10 of your SC singles and 10 of Jalapeno's on order - I am looking forward to seeing them in action

Thanks,

David

I take it calculators aren't your thing either .226 BTC @ ~US$11.00 = $2.486

[davidspitzer]

And know for something completely different...

BFL,

When you ship the ASIC's will you also have EasyMiner rev'd up so it can mine directly. I may be in the minority but I do not relish thought of poking around with compiling software and tweaking ini files trying to get the ASIC's to mine.  I am hoping that you will ship a complete "turn-Key" setup. Others can use what ever software they wish but I wanted to pass along my thoughts as many I have talked to, just want to invest in your solutions without spending an inordinate amount of time with setup. If not please help Bitminter get its client working with your new ASIC's before you ship  - For me plugging into a USB hub and hitting a big start button is sublime.

Just my 2 cents or my .226 BTC


I have 10 of your SC singles and 10 of Jalapeno's on order - I am looking forward to seeing them in action

Thanks,

David

I take it calculators aren't your thing either .226 BTC @ ~US$11.00 = $2.486

lol apparently not -  but its probably the right amount adjusted for inflation since the introduction of that phrase

[SgtSpike]

And know for something completely different...

BFL,

When you ship the ASIC's will you also have EasyMiner rev'd up so it can mine directly. I may be in the minority but I do not relish thought of poking around with compiling software and tweaking ini files trying to get the ASIC's to mine.  I am hoping that you will ship a complete "turn-Key" setup. Others can use what ever software they wish but I wanted to pass along my thoughts as many I have talked to, just want to invest in your solutions without spending an inordinate amount of time with setup. If not please help Bitminter get its client working with your new ASIC's before you ship  - For me plugging into a USB hub and hitting a big start button is sublime.

Just my 2 cents or my .226 BTC


I have 10 of your SC singles and 10 of Jalapeno's on order - I am looking forward to seeing them in action

Thanks,

David

Use Bitminter then.  It's pretty much "plugging into a USB hub and hitting a bit start button".

yes, I use it now  - great software - I was just mentioning it would be nice to have Easyminer also working for people who use other pools but want a turn key solution  - also It depends on BTC assisting Bitminter client software to be ready before the shipment of the ASICs, or have their own solution. It will be depressing to have a whole pile of ASICS and no quick and easy way to get them up and mining.

Both BFL and Bitminter have assured Bitminter support at the time of ASIC release.  I'm not worried about it.  BFL knows as well as we do that releasing their ASICs without support from the major existing mining softwares would be a customer service nightmare, and I am sure they will work towards preventing such a situation.

[davidspitzer]

And know for something completely different...

BFL,

When you ship the ASIC's will you also have EasyMiner rev'd up so it can mine directly. I may be in the minority but I do not relish thought of poking around with compiling software and tweaking ini files trying to get the ASIC's to mine.  I am hoping that you will ship a complete "turn-Key" setup. Others can use what ever software they wish but I wanted to pass along my thoughts as many I have talked to, just want to invest in your solutions without spending an inordinate amount of time with setup. If not please help Bitminter get its client working with your new ASIC's before you ship  - For me plugging into a USB hub and hitting a big start button is sublime.

Just my 2 cents or my .226 BTC


I have 10 of your SC singles and 10 of Jalapeno's on order - I am looking forward to seeing them in action

Thanks,

David

Use Bitminter then.  It's pretty much "plugging into a USB hub and hitting a bit start button".

yes, I use it now  - great software - I was just mentioning it would be nice to have Easyminer also working for people who use other pools but want a turn key solution  - also It depends on BTC assisting Bitminter client software to be ready before the shipment of the ASICs, or have their own solution. It will be depressing to have a whole pile of ASICS and no quick and easy way to get them up and mining.

Both BFL and Bitminter have assured Bitminter support at the time of ASIC release.  I'm not worried about it.  BFL knows as well as we do that releasing their ASICs without support from the major existing mining softwares would be a customer service nightmare, and I am sure they will work towards preventing such a situation.

I am sure you are right I heard some intimations that EasyMiner might be upgraded to a full mining client  - my hope is that will occur before ship time