[ANN] Bitcoinica Consultancy abandons customers. Bitcoinica to enter Liquidation

[superfastkyle]

Why do we keep letting employees of bitcoinica give "Announcements" without any proof anything will actually happen. I see no reason to not believe they are going to run off with our money. Every update ever given every minuscule payout has always been it appears to delay and give false hope. They have played on our emotions by passing blame around and causing members of this forum to take sides. The drama regarding bitcoinica is not important to me. They are responsible to give back the remaining percentage of funds they may have and then we should be responsible to sue them for the rest due to their incompetance. If they do not give back the remaining funds they do have anyone associated with bitcoinica should be considered untrustworthy and not allowed to do or get any business from this forum. If they are allowed to stay I see no reason to keep an account here. I don't think this should be a haven for scammers. Bitcoin is not bitcointalk.org

[repentance]

Why do we keep letting employees of bitcoinica give "Announcements" without any proof anything will actually happen.

Tihan is not an employee of Bitcoinica.  A limited partner's status under NZ law is identical to that of a company shareholder.

Users could have forced the liquidation of Bitcoinica but chose not to do so because it would lessen percentage of funds returned to them and slow down the process of those funds being returned.  It's now pretty much impossible for the refund process to continue without the company being liquidated.

[disclaimer201]

Mr Seale, please identify Zhou Tong, would you? It spares us another 50 pages of ongoing speculation in 3 different threads. Thank you!

[Come-from-Beyond]

Allow me to re-ask my previous question, but from a different tangent.

Tihan Seale--Will you go on record stating who was the guy you met in the Chimelong Hotel (Guangzhou) lobby this past February? Which one of the two images below did the guy you met resemble the most? Also, please let the community know that you conducted due diligence researching exactly who is "Zhou Tong" prior to the transferring of payola funds to said previous owner of Bitcoinica, or was it standard operating procedure to pay any Asian boy who simply claimed he built the Bitconica site, with the hope that you got rucky and tipped the right boy.

~Bruno~

Looking to the picture with "Dear Bruno, I'm real" poster, I can't get one thing:

Why Zhou Tong trying to prove he is real? If we believe he doesn't really exist then his ass will be safer, coz noone will try to sue him for recent Bitcoinica hack...

[ydenys]

If you believe the leaked emails, Mr Tihan Seale is the one who suggests using customers’ deposits for company’s expenses in the first place.

We do not know the real shortfall and how much all the hacks (with or without the inverted commas) up to date account for. 5% - 15% of deposits, less?

What we can be sure, however, is that (if this saga is ever to be resolved this way) after paying ‘creditors’ off and all the associated expenses, there would be far less left that it is already there.

Giving poster the benefit of the doubt, i believe current ‘legal way’ plan is (since they had made enough money on the exchange rate already) after ‘sufficient’ time actually process and refund USD deposits to cover their butts, maybe even returning the coins in USD form ‘at the moment of …’ at x% of their current value if the remaining funds/current exchange rate allows.

If they really wanted, there is an easy way to ask customers to resubmit the claims and cross reference them with existing details from Consultancy and Zhou and then simply pay off what’s left of funds to all verified/able proportionally.

The legal way Mr Seale is intended upon would only benefit him and his creditors at customers’ expense, as all ‘legal ways’ do.

[greBit]

Allow me to re-ask my previous question, but from a different tangent.

Tihan Seale--Will you go on record stating who was the guy you met in the Chimelong Hotel (Guangzhou) lobby this past February? Which one of the two images below did the guy you met resemble the most? Also, please let the community know that you conducted due diligence researching exactly who is "Zhou Tong" prior to the transferring of payola funds to said previous owner of Bitcoinica, or was it standard operating procedure to pay any Asian boy who simply claimed he built the Bitconica site, with the hope that you got rucky and tipped the right boy.

Another call for Mr Seale to answer the question and identify Zhou Tong, it would certainly clear a lot of things up.

[repentance]

If they really wanted, there is an easy way to ask customers to resubmit the claims and cross reference them with existing details from Consultancy and Zhou and then simply pay off what’s left of funds to all verified/able proportionally.

The Consultancy has stopped communicating with anyone and there is no way for anyone else to assume control of the remaining funds and the refund process without establishing a legal basis for doing so.

We know that at the time the MtGox breach was announced genjix posted that it was likely to result in a forced 30% reduction in refunds.

We also know from genjix's posts that 38% of funds verified as owing had been paid out by July 20 (as those payments were for 50%, the users who received them represented 76% of all verified user claims).

Of course the value of BTC has shifted since recently and that will affect the total funds available for repaying users.

[aq]

Why Zhou Tong trying to prove he is real? If we believe he doesn't really exist then his ass will be safer, coz noone will try to sue him for recent Bitcoinica hack...

Since almost a year Bruno has some strange obsession about ZT being not ZT. So a long time ago, ZT posted this picture with the "Dear Bruno..." writing on it. As you can see, Bruno is still obsessed. And I am sure he would still doubt ZT being ZT after he had successfully dissected him.

[EnergyVampire]

If you believe the leaked emails, Mr Tihan Seale is the one who suggests using customers’ deposits for company’s expenses in the first place.

Mr Tihan Seale, do you collect Chinese relics?

[unclescrooge]

Time to rigorously boycott Intersango and the "Bitcoin Conference" then?


BB.

No. Bitcoin conference is a major event which should absolutely not be made about the bitcoinica fiasco.

[Nefario]

Time to rigorously boycott Intersango and the "Bitcoin Conference" then?


BB.

No. Bitcoin conference is a major event which should absolutely not be made about the bitcoinica fiasco.

Chiming in on the whole Bitcoin conference (www.bitcoin2012.com) boycot idea, just to let you know that the Intersango guys are not the only ones involved in organising it.

If it's boycotted, all the work, time, effort, reputation and money that I and others(who are not involved with Bitcoinica) have already put into organising this conference will be destroyed. The venue has been paid for, awesome speakers have been arranged, over 100 tickets have been sold(and continuing fast, it's going to be sold out), and we've already got loads of sponsors (small bitcoin businesses mostly).

This event is going to be monumentous, as well as being a fantastic opportunity for bitcoiners to meet up, watch the talks, take part in the workshops, it's going to be a boon for bitcoin related businesses and some major PR for bitcoin itself.

If you guys want to turn this into a Bitcoinica rage then you'll destroy all this(other peoples money) and get nothing in return as a result.

Don't mix the conference up with the Bitcoinica affair, it will bring no good for anyone. It's going to be a great, historical event for bitcoin, and soon enough the world in general.

Nefario.

[BTCurious]

Chiming in on the whole Bitcoin conference (www.bitcoin2012.com) boycot idea, just to let you know that the Intersango guys are not the only ones involved in organising it.

If it's boycotted, all the work, time, effort, reputation and money that I and others(who are not involved with Bitcoinica) have already put into organising this conference will be destroyed. The venue has been paid for, awesome speakers have been arranged, over 100 tickets have been sold(and continuing fast, it's going to be sold out), and we've already got loads of sponsors (small bitcoin businesses mostly).

This event is going to be monumentous, as well as being a fantastic opportunity for bitcoiners to meet up, watch the talks, take part in the workshops, it's going to be a boon for bitcoin related businesses and some major PR for bitcoin itself.

If you guys want to turn this into a Bitcoinica rage then you'll destroy all this(other peoples money) and get nothing in return as a result.

Don't mix the conference up with the Bitcoinica affair, it will bring no good for anyone. It's going to be a great, historical event for bitcoin, and soon enough the world in general.

Nefario.

+1
Please don't destroy the conference over this.

[Mushoz]

Chiming in on the whole Bitcoin conference (www.bitcoin2012.com) boycot idea, just to let you know that the Intersango guys are not the only ones involved in organising it.

If it's boycotted, all the work, time, effort, reputation and money that I and others(who are not involved with Bitcoinica) have already put into organising this conference will be destroyed. The venue has been paid for, awesome speakers have been arranged, over 100 tickets have been sold(and continuing fast, it's going to be sold out), and we've already got loads of sponsors (small bitcoin businesses mostly).

This event is going to be monumentous, as well as being a fantastic opportunity for bitcoiners to meet up, watch the talks, take part in the workshops, it's going to be a boon for bitcoin related businesses and some major PR for bitcoin itself.

If you guys want to turn this into a Bitcoinica rage then you'll destroy all this(other peoples money) and get nothing in return as a result.

Don't mix the conference up with the Bitcoinica affair, it will bring no good for anyone. It's going to be a great, historical event for bitcoin, and soon enough the world in general.

Nefario.

+1000

Please don't boycot and hurt the conference over this. You're just hurting Bitcoin as a whole.

[aq]

Time to rigorously boycott Intersango and the "Bitcoin Conference" then?

Please don't boycot and hurt the conference over this. You're just hurting Bitcoin as a whole.

You have missed, that it could be BitBusters (and quite a few others) agenda to actually hurt Bitcoin.
And that should be an even greater reason for all of us not to boycott it.

[repentance]

Time to rigorously boycott Intersango and the "Bitcoin Conference" then?

Please don't boycot and hurt the conference over this. You're just hurting Bitcoin as a whole.

You have missed, that it could be BitBusters (and quite a few others) agenda to actually hurt Bitcoin.
And that should be an even greater reason for all of us not to boycott it.

The Intersango guys should probably think about whether their attendance would be disruptive to the conference as a whole though.

[BitBuster]

Thankfully, Mr. Murck stepped in as a licensed attorney to broker their receipt. He was subjected to a lot of hazing and invasion of privacy here for doing so.

For the 5th time: Under what legal authority is Murck able to receive and transfer stolen goods?.

Without him, the coins might never have been recovered.

No coins are back in the hands of their rightful owners. Therefore NO coins have yet been recovered.

Tihan, I will join the chorus of people who implore you to answer Bruno's question.

Chiming in on the whole Bitcoin conference (www.bitcoin2012.com) boycot idea, just to let you know that the Intersango guys are not the only ones involved in organising it.

If it's boycotted, all the work, time, effort, reputation and money that I and others(who are not involved with Bitcoinica) have already put into organising this conference will be destroyed.

Nefario, I totally understand where you are coming from. This is why for your own and the sake of the conference, you must immediately jettison any and all involvement with Intersango/Bitcoinica and other actors. Remove them from the administration and sponsorship of the event, otherwise you will all be tarred with the same brush. There could be severe legal conclusions to all this, please save the conference from becoming compromised in this way.

You have missed, that it could be BitBusters (and quite a few others) agenda to actually hurt Bitcoin.
And that should be an even greater reason for all of us not to boycott it.

You are talking out of your backside. My only agenda is the perpetuation and enrichment of Bitcoin, which demands that its real detractors (theifs, hackers, shady operators) be hunted down and made an example of.


BB.

[MagicalTux]

Thankfully, Mr. Murck stepped in as a licensed attorney to broker their receipt. He was subjected to a lot of hazing and invasion of privacy here for doing so.

For the 5th time: Under what legal authority is Murck able to receive and transfer stolen goods?.

As far as I can see, Patrick Murck is acting in contact with Tihan Seale, who is the only known individual known to represent the owners of Bitcoinica LP.

That gives him enough authority to recover whatever possessions that used to be in Bitcoinica's care when whoever stole these says he wants to return [part of] it.

[aq]

Thankfully, Mr. Murck stepped in as a licensed attorney to broker their receipt. He was subjected to a lot of hazing and invasion of privacy here for doing so.

For the 5th time: Under what legal authority is Murck able to receive and transfer stolen goods?.

Why do you even care?

Without him, the coins might never have been recovered.

No coins are back in the hands of their rightful owners. Therefore NO coins have yet been recovered.

Thankfully they have ignored your for-the-5th-time question and the funds are now safe at mtgox.

You have missed, that it could be BitBusters (and quite a few others) agenda to actually hurt Bitcoin.
And that should be an even greater reason for all of us not to boycott it.

You are talking out of your backside. My only agenda is the perpetuation and enrichment of Bitcoin, which demands that its real detractors (theifs, hackers, shady operators) be hunted down and made an example of.

Sure, that is the main reason why you (and others) try to prevent ZT to return the funds. Very logically
You should really contact mlawrence, you are a perfect match to form some "Bitcoin crusade"

[disclaimer201]

Time to rigorously boycott Intersango and the "Bitcoin Conference" then?


BB.

No. Bitcoin conference is a major event which should absolutely not be made about the bitcoinica fiasco.

You are right. This is why I politely call all Intersango staff involved in organizing the conference to step back from their responsibility, just as they have from Bitcoinica. Since the conference will probably be co-sponsored by Intersango, this is not going to happen. And this why the conference will fall under a bad light because they cannot afford to lose sponsors I'm sure.

[BitBuster]

For the 5th time: Under what legal authority is Murck able to receive and transfer stolen goods?.

Why do you even care?

Because it is of absolute importance that any legal effort to return stolen funds is, in fact legal.

No coins are back in the hands of their rightful owners. Therefore NO coins have yet been recovered.

Thankfully they have ignored your for-the-5th-time question and the funds are now safe at mtgox.

"Safe"? Perhaps. Legally? Who knows. Returned to the victims? Certainly not.  Wow, what a righteous victory!

Sure, that is the main reason why you (and others) try to prevent ZT to return the funds. Very logically

If Zhou was not the theif, then the funds are not his to return. He is not legally entitled to handle or transfer stolen goods and nor it seems is Murck. Don't try to bait me on logic. It's clear that you cannot understand the logic that for something to be legally legitimate it must have legal authority.

You should really contact mlawrence, you are a perfect match to form some "Bitcoin crusade"

I have no interest with mlawrence and its clear that you have no interest in factual and sincere discussion of the matter.

Since the conference will be probably be co-sponsored by Intersango, this is not going to happen. And this why the conference will fall under a bad light because they cannot afford to lose sponsors I'm sure.

If as many expect, the Intersango trio are eventually proven to be liable/culpable, it could be argued that the whole conference was sponsored by theives with stolen money.


BB.