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[ArticMine]

The weak point would be to regulate the masternodes as MSBs.

Masternodes are not transacting coins. They can be ran in any country, not just in the USA. And moreover, I think it's guaranteed that some countries (USA very likely being one of them) will make all anonymous coins illegal eventually. At that point, it's imperative that the coin can run hidden under tor/i2p or some other solution.
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Every time I raise the question of regulating the masternodes as MSBs the response is 1) This is a US only issue which it is not and 2) We will "go dark", pardon the pun, to solve the problem. This is nothing more than an admission of defeat and justifies the argument that government regulation of the masternodes is the real Achilles Heel of Darkcoin.

Edit: There is also the argument that "all anonymous coins will be made illegal anyway", which is again a further admission of defeat.

[illodin]

The weak point would be to regulate the masternodes as MSBs.

Masternodes are not transacting coins. They can be ran in any country, not just in the USA. And moreover, I think it's guaranteed that some countries (USA very likely being one of them) will make all anonymous coins illegal eventually. At that point, it's imperative that the coin can run hidden under tor/i2p or some other solution.
...

Every time I raise the question of regulating the masternodes as MSBs the response is 1) This is a US only issue which it is not and 2) We will "go dark", pardon the pun, to solve the problem. This is nothing more than an admission of defeat and justifies the argument that government regulation of the masternodes is the real Achilles Heel of Darkcoin.

Edit: There is also the argument that "all anonymous coins will be made illegal anyway", which is again a further admission of defeat.

No, the response was also that the masternodes are not transacting money. And every anon coin will need to "go dark" eventually.

[oblox]

Collect enough data from enough masternodes and over time one could start to unravel DRK transactions even with blinded masternodes. How resistant are blinded masternodes to this type of Sybil attack?   

What is enough data? I'd say they are extremely resistant. You'd probably need to collect the data from 95% of the masternodes to get any hope of unraveling anything, and the 1000 DRK requirement for running a masternode is exactly for that purpose. To get it expensive enough to gain large enough percentage.

The question becomes what happens when one trades time for the percentage of compromised masternodes? Over a short period of time yes it may take 95% of the masternodes, but what happens where the attacker collects data over say a period of 6 months or longer using a much smaller percentage of compromised masternodes. I am talking here of a regulator or a group of regulators who persuade a fraction of the masternodes to provide the regulator(s) with data at essentially no cost to the compromised masternodes. All of this is of course separate from an attack on the proof of stake aspect of DRK (the 1000 DRK masternode requirement) using "borrowed" stake.

You want to try to piece together a web of tx's with fragments over months? Ok.

And it's not proof of stake for the last time. Proof of service if anything. There is no borrowed stake... no one is going to lend you the coins to create a masternode when they could run one themselves. /facepalm

[ArticMine]

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No, the response was also that the masternodes are not transacting money. And every anon coin will need to "go dark" eventually.

This comes down to 1) The regulators won't do this and 2) It won't matter anyway. The real issue here is this is a real structural weakness in Darkcoin that is not present in its closest competitor, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

[oblox]

The weak point would be to regulate the masternodes as MSBs.

Masternodes are not transacting coins. They can be ran in any country, not just in the USA. And moreover, I think it's guaranteed that some countries (USA very likely being one of them) will make all anonymous coins illegal eventually. At that point, it's imperative that the coin can run hidden under tor/i2p or some other solution.
...

Every time I raise the question of regulating the masternodes as MSBs

I've already answered this but will refresh your memory. At least from the standpoint of CURRENT United States qualifiers to be considered a Money Service Business, it doesn't meet any of the three. Could this guidance change in the future, sure, but I'm living under the present.

[illodin]

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No, the response was also that the masternodes are not transacting money. And every anon coin will need to "go dark" eventually.

This comes down to 1) The regulators won't do this and 2) It won't matter anyway. The real issue here is this is a real structural weakness in Darkcoin that is not present in its closest competitor, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

Sure there is. We could go ask FinCEN's permission if someone feels like it's important for them, or "go dark" as any other anon coin will eventually have to do.

[ArticMine]

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Sure there is. We could go ask FinCEN's permission if someone feels like it's important for them, or "go dark" as any other anon coin will eventually have to do.

Getting a favourable ruling from FinCEN on the masternodes as MSBs issue is the one way to put an end to this. Furthermore this needs to presented to FinCEN by a member of the DRK community with a significant stake in the success of DRK and not by someone who stands to profit from an unfavourable ruling, eg an XMR holder such as myself. As for the "go dark" argument we both know this is simply an admission of defeat in this context.

[Joshuar]

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No, the response was also that the masternodes are not transacting money. And every anon coin will need to "go dark" eventually.

This comes down to 1) The regulators won't do this and 2) It won't matter anyway. The real issue here is this is a real structural weakness in Darkcoin that is not present in its closest competitor, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

Sure there is. We could go ask FinCEN's permission if someone feels like it's important for them, or "go dark" as any other anon coin will eventually have to do.

That's an interesting case. I don't feel the same however. While the currencies themselves offer anonymity(though they vary, Cryptonote>Masternode based), they can still easily be used in conjunction with the law. In Monero's case, there's a viewkey that would allow other's to see your balance if you let them. So say you need to let tax authorities or police or w/e see the amount of Moneroj you have, you can simply hand them your viewkey. Both anonymity and transparency in one.

[illodin]

...
No, the response was also that the masternodes are not transacting money. And every anon coin will need to "go dark" eventually.

This comes down to 1) The regulators won't do this and 2) It won't matter anyway. The real issue here is this is a real structural weakness in Darkcoin that is not present in its closest competitor, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

Sure there is. We could go ask FinCEN's permission if someone feels like it's important for them, or "go dark" as any other anon coin will eventually have to do.

That's an interesting case. I don't feel the same however. While the currencies themselves offer anonymity(though they vary, Cryptonote>Masternode based), they can still easily be used in conjunction with the law. In Monero's case, there's a viewkey that would allow other's to see your balance if you let them. So say you need to let tax authorities or police or w/e see the amount of Moneroj you have, you can simply hand them your viewkey. Both anonymity and transparency in one.

You don't feel the same about what?

So you can hand them viewkey to one of your wallets or addresses, and hide the other wallet or address? And this is somehow better than Darkcoin wrt transparency?

[Joshuar]

...
No, the response was also that the masternodes are not transacting money. And every anon coin will need to "go dark" eventually.

This comes down to 1) The regulators won't do this and 2) It won't matter anyway. The real issue here is this is a real structural weakness in Darkcoin that is not present in its closest competitor, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

Sure there is. We could go ask FinCEN's permission if someone feels like it's important for them, or "go dark" as any other anon coin will eventually have to do.

That's an interesting case. I don't feel the same however. While the currencies themselves offer anonymity(though they vary, Cryptonote>Masternode based), they can still easily be used in conjunction with the law. In Monero's case, there's a viewkey that would allow other's to see your balance if you let them. So say you need to let tax authorities or police or w/e see the amount of Moneroj you have, you can simply hand them your viewkey. Both anonymity and transparency in one.

You don't feel the same about what?

So you can hand them viewkey to one of your wallets or addresses, and hide the other wallet or address? And this is somehow better than Darkcoin wrt transparency?

I read a previous statement of yours that said anonymous coins will be deemed illegal eventually which most likely isn't going to happen. Btw, with Monero you only need one address because for each transaction a new stealth address is created.(You can obviously have more than 1 though). I never said anything about Darkcoin and have no idea what "wrt" means.

[illodin]

I read a previous "statement" of yours that said anonymous coins will be deemed illegal eventually which most likely isn't going to happen. Btw, with Monero you only need one address because for each transaction a new stealth address is created.(You can obviously have more than 1 though). I never said anything about Darkcoin and have no idea what "wrt" means.

Ok, this being a thread about Darkcoin I quickly assumed that presenting a feature of Monero was meant to highlight that said feature as something that is missing from Darkcoin and giving some sort of regulatory edge to Monero.

But as it is, the tax authorities or police won't be able to tell if your viewkey address is your only address, so they can't tell or trust the level of transparency.

[wpalczynski]

It is a challenge to you to put up or shut up.

OK then, I'll be happy to, just as soon as you demonstrate how you can track my web browsing the way google, etc. do.

OR, alternatively, you could claim that because YOU, personally, can't track my web browsing, it must be private and anonymous.

Which is it?

I'll assume neither, but certainly correct me if I'm wrong.

To that end he's my new "product" -- Smooth's Unbreakable Anonymous Web Browsing (who needs Tor?)

Step 1: Wave your hands over your computer and think positive thoughts.

Step 2: Say a prayer to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that your browsing today remains private.

Now, here's the good part. If you think my product doesn't work go ahead and put up or shut up: Deanonymize my browsing!

Can't do it? I guess my product must be good after all. I should start selling it to suckers right?

Reality check dude. If you are disclosing information to third parties (which dark does), and it isn't protected by strong and well-vetted cryptography (which dark does not), it isn't secure.

Good analogy Smooth.  This one made me LOL.

[Lukas_Jackson]

It is a challenge to you to put up or shut up.

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Good analogy Smooth.  This one made me LOL.

Don't make fool of yourself. Read OP

[Johnny Mnemonic]

This is where the "put up or shut up" argument becomes VERY valid.  If DRK's darksend transactions are traceable, prove it or STFU and move on.

You can't even prove that bitcoin transactions are traceable. Why do I even need darkcoin?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Okay, let's be reasonable.

I admit I can't personally unravel darkcoin transactions. Does that mean your ISP can't either? What about the NSA?

Do you expect the NSA to join the discussion and truthfully comment on the matter?

Assuming you're a reasonable person, what criticism would you see as valid, short of the NSA showing up and graciously giving you a demonstration?

[Ingatqhvq]

So no coin is 100% Anonymous?
There lots coins claim they are 100% Anonymous, but most of them just like darkcoin.
Anonymous is not necessary for coins.
Most of people don't really need it.

[rustynailer]

So no coin is 100% Anonymous.

Some are more anonymous than others.

[Este Nuno]

Isn't bloat kind of a non-issue at this point considering even Bitcoin itself is likely going to be moving towards 20mb blocks and beyond? In a sense Bitcoin's existence and continued growth of its blockchain will demonstrate whether or not bloat is really going to be a limiting factor.

Actually, that is MAX block size. For now  most blocks will remain the same size. ~ 1 MB

Yeah, but the general idea is that bloat isn't really going to be a limiting factor for cryptocurrencies from a technical perspective. Only the preference that blockchains be as small as possible to maximize decentralisation by making nodes easier to run. But bloat itself doesn't seem to be much of a concern for cryptos at this point.

[MasterMined710]

Look I get that DRK was created before the cryptonote technology was released and arguably at the time it was the best we had to try to make Bitcoin more anonymous.

 I'll take a closer look at blinding when it is release but from what I've seen so far I expect much the same.

i thought the nsa created cryptonote/bytecoin and premined/released it on the deep web years before drk.

Faked versions of CryptoNote whitepaper & NSA involvement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptoNote#Faked_versions_of_CryptoNote_whitepaper

[MasterMined710]

The US Justice Department is trying to expand federal powers to search and seize digital data.  

Less than 30% of crypto users are subject to american law. Then consider the massive exodus of crypto- related business to more viable nations.

Do keep in mind that America is pretty high on the majority of the globe's shit list on digital matters at the moment. They'll either meet very little compliance, or outright resistance.

I'm not comfortable betting on that though. Mainly because i don't have a crystal ball.
I can only go on what i can see happening here. US has strong alliance and influence with a lot more of the world then you are making out.
And its also, believe it or not, in many ways, a template for many developing countries.

But i'm sure you are smart enough to realise this is not just the US moving to do things like this and i think you will find a fair chunk of the MN in US territory and or influenced countries.
In case you missed the headline on that and the other 40+ articles on the subject "Google warns of US government 'hacking any facility' in the world"
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To get back on topic, Evil-Knievel, can you please give an update into your findings.

I find his proposed de-anonymisation plausible. Is there any resource from the DRK community to fund his research time?

dude, your coin is trying to set up an ebay like marketplace to buy drugs just like cloakcoin was trying to do. do you realize how fast the government will kill your coin  if that ever happens. it gonna end in tears!