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Author Topic: 70 years after the Victory: Lest We Forget (despite every effort to do so)  (Read 6085 times)
Nemo1024
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March 19, 2015, 11:21:57 PM
 #21

I don't think they want to "rewrite history" or are trying to deny the victory, which was in large part achieved by Russian troops winter weather. You seem to be ignoring that it's all about the current situation in Ukraine.

Fix't.

Never forget the rise of National Socialism was largely a reaction to the bloody Bolshevik Revolution in Russia.

The prudent, hard-working Germans weren't going to put up with such Marxist scheiße happening in their country.

Oh, come on, iBREAKER, you are not THAT stupid. Are you saying the winter weather lasted for whole 4 years, including very hot summers?  Grin

#101Life
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“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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March 19, 2015, 11:24:08 PM
 #22

Sorry mate, but this one is a big pile of sh... rubbish: http://stanislavs.org/the-hungarian-amnesia/

Well we true Hungarians used to celebrate the Day of Honour on the 11th of February. Politicians, jews, (aka the Elite) and their brainwashed zombies used to celebrate with you guys. (Be happy with it.) But they are not us, and their heroes are not our heroes, and no we are not at all grateful for exporting democracy and freedom for us :/.

Snail2, I was interested in your reaction. Smiley

Do you mean the whole article, also including:

Quote
The revolution, suppressed on Khrushchev’s orders, cost the Hungarian people 2652 killed citizens. The war on Hitler’s side claimed the lives of 300,000 Hungarian soldiers and 600,000 civilians – 10 percent (!) Of the total population. This is not to mention the following: the Soviet Union “shelved” the facts of Hungary’s participation in punitive operations in 1941-1944 in our country. Executions of women, burnt villages, the executions of the partisans, torture of prisoners of war – tens of thousands of victims. Documents are still kept in Russian archives: take only one case among many. On May 28, 1942 Hungarian soldiers shot 350 people in the village of Svetlov in Bryansk region “for helping the partisans”. Peasant woman gave E. Vedeshina gave testimony about it, the punishers killed her four children – 11, 8, 5 and 1 year(!) old. She miraculously survived, lying in a hole under the children’s corpses. Why am I saying this? Seems like we must forgive these kinds of atrocities, but our mistakes in Eastern Europe, no one at all forgets and is still reminding us about at every step.

#101Life
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“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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March 19, 2015, 11:26:44 PM
 #23

Lest We Forget.
I am not a big fan of people telling me what I need to remember.
That phrase tends to be part of some heavy propaganda...

I took the formulation from here. It ringed true, seeing the hypocrisy that we have today on the global political arena:

http://rocksolidpolitics.blogspot.com.es/2015/03/world-economy-war-one.html?spref=tw

Quote
However, we've never seen complete destruction of economic systems. That's something that is hard to wrap the mind around for most. The best analogy perhaps is the First World War.  Slaughter had never happened before on this scale.The men left for the front lines in a hurry in 1914. Up for the challenge and afraid to miss the big show. They found out all too quickly that the massive slaughter that occurred on those front lines was not any kind of great struggle for a higher cause. What they found was humanity turning on itself in a global slaughter of a generation. Four years later, after unimaginable horror and destruction, the phrase was "never again". Eleven years later mankind did it all over again. When that one was over we had a new phrase: "Lest we Forget". Sometimes ... often times, it seems that our desire to dominate each other is never fully satisfied.

#101Life
Save Donbass

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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March 20, 2015, 09:14:48 AM
 #24

I don't think they want to "rewrite history" or are trying to deny the victory, which was in large part achieved by Russian troops winter weather. You seem to be ignoring that it's all about the current situation in Ukraine.

Fix't.

Never forget the rise of National Socialism was largely a reaction to the bloody Bolshevik Revolution in Russia.

The prudent, hard-working Germans weren't going to put up with such Marxist scheiße happening in their country.

Oh, come on, iBREAKER, you are not THAT stupid. Are you saying the winter weather lasted for whole 4 years, including very hot summers?  Grin

In very hot summers, the winter weather melts and turns into mud.  Which is also not helpful when you are trying to blitzkrieg.   Tongue

Regardless, if the Russians had stopped the Bolshevik Revolution then the Germans wouldn't have freaked out and went all crazy.


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Snail2
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March 20, 2015, 10:09:03 AM
 #25

indeed the NSDAP was/is originally a worker party but history showed us that all these was just propaganda and populism.
without the looting of middle europe germany could never pay their new policies.

Yes, they won the election from the left and then ruled from the right, but they also did a lot to improve the living standards of the working class, and also did a lot of wealth redistribution to re-establish a strong middle class.

Quote
everything the NSDAP and Hitler did was preparation for WW2 and a new 1000 year lasting german reich.
they planned the murder of everyone they deemed to be unworthy of living from the start.

dont think even extreme leftist would actually do it  Roll Eyes

That's actually not entirely true. The first shot in that war was shot by the Jewish World Congress in early 1933 (in that time Hitler wasn't the undisputed ruler of Germany but only a major political figure) in the USA when it declared economic war on Germany and called for boycotting German goods. As it caused more than 10% fall in German export and the freezing or seizure of some German assets abroad of course it pissed off the nazis. When the World Zionist Organization de facto declared war on Germany in 1939 that was oil to the fire. I have no doubt about that Hitler had plans against the jews from the beginning but without the quite hawkish american jewish organizations the situation could have been much more relaxed.
Later Hitler and the some zionist organizations made the Transfer Agreement about transferring german jews to Palestine but that agreement was torpedoed by the Brittish govt by demanding £1000 fee per immigrant. What was quite a lot of money in that time (about 5 years average salary) therefore nearly impossible to obtain. So I think that was clearly an anti-immigration tool.

Some more details here: http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html if someone interested.


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March 20, 2015, 12:52:55 PM
 #26

Sorry mate, but this one is a big pile of sh... rubbish: http://stanislavs.org/the-hungarian-amnesia/

Well we true Hungarians used to celebrate the Day of Honour on the 11th of February. Politicians, jews, (aka the Elite) and their brainwashed zombies used to celebrate with you guys. (Be happy with it.) But they are not us, and their heroes are not our heroes, and no we are not at all grateful for exporting democracy and freedom for us :/.

I thought about your comment a bit more, and I see a big problem in the second part of it. It does not pertain to the article itself, which is about remembrance of how WWII ended, but about a fundamental fault line in Hungary, that can be used implement a divide-and-conquer colour revolution in Hungary. The way you talk about "us and them" and "true Hungarians", is a way to disaster - exactly what we should be on the look-out for if we are not to walk blindly into yet another (final) world war.

There is nothing for me to be happy with - I am an ethnic Russian, and you should remember that the ring-leaders of the red colour revolution of 1917 in Russia were almost entirely of Jewish origin, financed from the West.

Also, I am not entirely sure what you meant by "we are not at all grateful for exporting democracy and freedom for us" did you mean the Western powers? OR the Soviet system (which was definitely not a democracy - an irony, as "soviet" means "council" and in theory implied direct democracy).

The article is about how the outcome of WWII is subtly altered exactly to the sentiments that you expressed in your comment.

Would you say that the following is rubbish as well:

Quote
Stepping carefully on the steep stairs, I climb Mount Gellert: in 1947 there was a monument to 80,000 Soviet soldiers killed in the battle for the capital of Hungary. You can see in my photos what’s left of it – a bronze figure of a soldier with the PCA has been removed, five-pointed star is removed, the names of all 146 who died in the battle for Gellert carefully erased from the marble stella – a monument was simply made impersonal. And not far from another obelisk to the soldiers of the USSR in the center of Budapest (at Freedom Square), there is even a monument to… an ally of Hitler – dictator Miklos Horthy. And even though this initiative is not coming from the government, but from the far-right party “Jobbik”, the closeness is quite disgusting.




I don't think they want to "rewrite history" or are trying to deny the victory, which was in large part achieved by Russian troops winter weather. You seem to be ignoring that it's all about the current situation in Ukraine.

Fix't.

Never forget the rise of National Socialism was largely a reaction to the bloody Bolshevik Revolution in Russia.

The prudent, hard-working Germans weren't going to put up with such Marxist scheiße happening in their country.

Oh, come on, iBREAKER, you are not THAT stupid. Are you saying the winter weather lasted for whole 4 years, including very hot summers?  Grin

In very hot summers, the winter weather melts and turns into mud.  Which is also not helpful when you are trying to blitzkrieg.   Tongue

Regardless, if the Russians had stopped the Bolshevik Revolution then the Germans wouldn't have freaked out and went all crazy.

So, now it's hot summers and not cold winters that were a deciding factor, eh. Let's add to the mix that Soviet Union have several climatic zones, including dry steppe regions in, for example, Crimea. Novorossijsk was bombed by the Germans for two years before they managed to conquer the city.

You are trying to diminish the heroism of the people by trying to find whatever alternative explanation you can and pushing the huge human sacrifice to the second row, or even obliterating it altogether. And this is one of the weapons used by the Western propaganda machine - the weather myth is one of them.

Also, now it's Russians and the destruction of their country that is to blame for the German aggression. The revolution, the red colour revolution of 1917, was implemented by the Western powers. Don't try to shift the blame on the victims.

#101Life
Save Donbass

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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March 20, 2015, 04:17:34 PM
 #27

The revolution, the red colour revolution of 1917, was implemented by the Western powers. Don't try to shift the blame on the victims.

Is there any example at all, in the history of mankind, where the Russians were the aggressors and where they could be rightfully labelled the "bad guys"?

Any example at all? Come on, help me out here. This endless talk of Russian innocence (and bravery, righteousness, fairness, etc., etc.) is getting so tiresome that it almost sounds like yet another military tactic.

I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that the Russians are always the victims.

If they are always the victims, then why are there over 140,000,000 Russians? If they are such victims, shouldn't they would be ALL DEAD by now?!

Why do Russians control the largest country in the world?

How do the Russians manage to be so successful despite being such victims? Do they have some natural, genetic, advantage over other humans that would explain it? How do they miraculously bounce back from their terrible defeats? Are they so tough that, when the enemy thinks that all the Russians are dead, they climb out of their mass graves like zombies? Grin

I could easily believe that some remote Amazonian tribe with a total population of 500 people are real victims -- marginalised by colonists, and their habitat wiped out by corporations. Even if practising cannibalism, incest, and child rape is considered just a normal part of their culture, they can still be considered victims due to the oppressive presence of >100 million Portuguese/Spanish colonists next door. The same can NOT be said about Russia at any time during the last several hundred years.
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March 20, 2015, 05:15:36 PM
 #28

Also, I am not entirely sure what you meant by "we are not at all grateful for exporting democracy and freedom for us" did you mean the Western powers? OR the Soviet system (which was definitely not a democracy - an irony, as "soviet" means "council" and in theory implied direct democracy).
LOL The only democracy the Soviets brought to other countries was the democracy of the party (how I like to call it).
In my country they first imposed special tickets, that allowed you to get appliances. Basically you had to wait in line for days or months, depending on what you wanted to buy and you needed an assignment ticket for a lot of it. If you were a member of the communist party, you were getting a lot of these assignments and somehow didn't have to wait in line like everybody else.
This was the Soviet democracy. A sad joke.

I'm happy that people in my country know what to do with monuments left by the commies.


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March 20, 2015, 07:51:23 PM
 #29

The ticket system you describe, was also in place in the Soviet Union after the war, when the industry and the economy were all but collapsed and shortages were everywhere.

Removing a monument to Lenin is one thing (I wish Russian government got around to getting rid of Lenin's corpse on Red Square). However, it's a completely different thing, getting rid of the monuments, and of memory of the people, who sacrificed themselves to liberate you land of the German occupation.

http://stanislavs.org/the-sorrow-of-a-warsaw-woman-why-poland-is-not-happy-to-be-liberated-from-fascism/

Quote
– 650 thousand Soviet soldiers laid their lives on the Polish soil, – says Cyprian Darchevsky, known journalist and political commentator. – We should look at them as ordinary people, young men who went to death not with a dream to install a tyranny, but with a sincere desire to free Poland from the Nazi invaders.

...

During the Nazi occupation of Poland, it lost 21.4% of its population.

...

Yes, a regime was established for 45 years in Poland, which was not a sweet for us. But nobody destroyed Poles as a nation, their country was an independent state, even under the influence of “big brother” in Moscow. Republic has risen from the ruins in the shortest timespan possible with the Soviet money. But they prefer to simply turn a blind eye on this fact in modern Poland.

#101Life
Save Donbass

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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March 20, 2015, 07:55:04 PM
 #30

A passionate post by Lada, with a subsequent open letter to Merkel, detailing the impact the war left on her family.

Happy Victory Day, Fr. Merkel! My Open Postcard to the German Chancellor
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2015/03/20/happy-victory-day-fr-merkel-my-open-postcard-to-the-german-chancellor/


#101Life
Save Donbass

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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March 21, 2015, 04:16:43 AM
 #31

In very hot summers, the winter weather melts and turns into mud.  Which is also not helpful when you are trying to blitzkrieg.   Tongue

Regardless, if the Russians had stopped the Bolshevik Revolution then the Germans wouldn't have freaked out and went all crazy.

So, now it's hot summers and not cold winters that were a deciding factor, eh. Let's add to the mix that Soviet Union have several climatic zones, including dry steppe regions in, for example, Crimea. Novorossijsk was bombed by the Germans for two years before they managed to conquer the city.

You are trying to diminish the heroism of the people by trying to find whatever alternative explanation you can and pushing the huge human sacrifice to the second row, or even obliterating it altogether. And this is one of the weapons used by the Western propaganda machine - the weather myth is one of them.

Also, now it's Russians and the destruction of their country that is to blame for the German aggression. The revolution, the red colour revolution of 1917, was implemented by the Western powers. Don't try to shift the blame on the victims.

I said it was *BOTH* hot (muddy) summers and cold (icy) winters.  Are you confused by simple logic, or just straining to manufacture inconsistencies in my position?

"German aggression?"  I guess you missed the Polish–Soviet War, and the Bavarian Revolution.

"Heroism of the people?"  Don't make me laugh.   Roll Eyes

Overthrowing the Tsar and murdering his family isn't "heroism."

Allowing the Bolshevik barbarians to destroy a once-great world-leading Empire in a civil war isn't heroism.

Aiding and abetting a genocidal dictator like Stalin as he carves up Poland and starves millions with forced collective farming failures isn't heroism.

Absorbing German bullets until they run out and freeze/cough/starve to death isn't heroism.   Cheesy

If Russians had a higher capacity for being honest with themselves and admitting fault when necessary, they wouldn't suffer so horribly on a regular basis.

Their conceited 'Russia is always right because Russians are the best' bullshit comes back to bite them in the ass, over and over again.

They ate up Lenin's 'death to the kulaks' class warfare BS, then blamed Lenin's ethnicity when the dead kulaks could no longer feed them or their Slavic sister nations.

By supporting the Great October Socialist Revolution, the Russians created the situation which directly victimized not only themselves, but ultimately the Germans and hundreds of millions of others.

Fuck that and fuck them!  Stop being like the Japanese war criminal apologists, grow up, and learn to admit when mistakes were made.

Blaming "The Jew Bankers" is a totally lame excuse, and beneath a people with the capacity for advanced civilization.

You buy into the poor blameless-Russian/guilty Jew Banker conspiracy theory, and have the audacity to accuse any inconveniently anti-Russian facts of being "Western propaganda?"

Give me a break.   Roll Eyes

Be sure to tell the Finns how peaceful the Communists were.  They are apparently also victims of "Western propaganda" and mistakenly believe the USSR invaded and occupied their country in an imaginary event called the Winter War.  Silly Finns, they need to stop listening to Evil Jew Bankers!  They should be grateful the Soviet Army liberated them from the clutches of the bourgeois Jew Banker devils, right?


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Monero
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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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March 21, 2015, 06:48:06 AM
 #32

One cannot ignore these brave men who sacrifice themselves to win the war, but sadly history can produce anniversaries of such death and sacrifice for every day of the year if we look close enough at history and choose to recognise them every ten years.. Centenary maybe then... ?
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March 21, 2015, 11:39:27 AM
 #33

Soviet... Stalin... USSR

I'm just waiting for Patriot Nemo's classic defence that Soviet crimes =/= Russian crimes because the real Russia* was brutally oppressed by millions of USSR™ communists, who all mysteriously vanished when the union collapsed. Perhaps they all went back to Georgia, Czechnya, Donbass, and Kazakhstan?

*However, the Russians can still boast about things like Sputnik, ICBMs, or Chernobyl, which the Soviets could not have achieved by themselves without Russian assistance.
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March 21, 2015, 05:59:38 PM
 #34

In very hot summers, the winter weather melts and turns into mud.  Which is also not helpful when you are trying to blitzkrieg.   Tongue

Regardless, if the Russians had stopped the Bolshevik Revolution then the Germans wouldn't have freaked out and went all crazy.

So, now it's hot summers and not cold winters that were a deciding factor, eh. Let's add to the mix that Soviet Union have several climatic zones, including dry steppe regions in, for example, Crimea. Novorossijsk was bombed by the Germans for two years before they managed to conquer the city.

You are trying to diminish the heroism of the people by trying to find whatever alternative explanation you can and pushing the huge human sacrifice to the second row, or even obliterating it altogether. And this is one of the weapons used by the Western propaganda machine - the weather myth is one of them.

Also, now it's Russians and the destruction of their country that is to blame for the German aggression. The revolution, the red colour revolution of 1917, was implemented by the Western powers. Don't try to shift the blame on the victims.

I said it was *BOTH* hot (muddy) summers and cold (icy) winters.  Are you confused by simple logic, or just straining to manufacture inconsistencies in my position?

"German aggression?"  I guess you missed the Polish–Soviet War, and the Bavarian Revolution.

"Heroism of the people?"  Don't make me laugh.   Roll Eyes

Overthrowing the Tsar and murdering his family isn't "heroism."

Allowing the Bolshevik barbarians to destroy a once-great world-leading Empire in a civil war isn't heroism.

Aiding and abetting a genocidal dictator like Stalin as he carves up Poland and starves millions with forced collective farming failures isn't heroism.

Absorbing German bullets until they run out and freeze/cough/starve to death isn't heroism.   Cheesy

If Russians had a higher capacity for being honest with themselves and admitting fault when necessary, they wouldn't suffer so horribly on a regular basis.

Their conceited 'Russia is always right because Russians are the best' bullshit comes back to bite them in the ass, over and over again.

They ate up Lenin's 'death to the kulaks' class warfare BS, then blamed Lenin's ethnicity when the dead kulaks could no longer feed them or their Slavic sister nations.

By supporting the Great October Socialist Revolution, the Russians created the situation which directly victimized not only themselves, but ultimately the Germans and hundreds of millions of others.

Fuck that and fuck them!  Stop being like the Japanese war criminal apologists, grow up, and learn to admit when mistakes were made.

Blaming "The Jew Bankers" is a totally lame excuse, and beneath a people with the capacity for advanced civilization.

You buy into the poor blameless-Russian/guilty Jew Banker conspiracy theory, and have the audacity to accuse any inconveniently anti-Russian facts of being "Western propaganda?"

Give me a break.   Roll Eyes

Be sure to tell the Finns how peaceful the Communists were.  They are apparently also victims of "Western propaganda" and mistakenly believe the USSR invaded and occupied their country in an imaginary event called the Winter War.  Silly Finns, they need to stop listening to Evil Jew Bankers!  They should be grateful the Soviet Army liberated them from the clutches of the bourgeois Jew Banker devils, right?

About Finland. They were a part of Russian Empire until Lenin proclaimed them a separate state in 1917. Before that they were a part of Sweden. They still learn Swedish as a compulsory second language. He did the same with Latvia, Ukraine, Belorus, all of which were part of Russia and started to exists as separate entities on Lenin's whim, seeding the foundation to the problems that we have now

No, it's you, who are confused. In the first post you fixed things to saying that the war was won by winter weather. When I pointed out that winter does not last for 4 years, you switched to speaking about muddy summers.

"The Jew Bankers" is your words, not mine. I simply stated the nationality of the majority of the coup-makers of 1917. The rest is you attributing something that I did not say to me. A usual trick.

The support for the "Revolution" or coup d'etat of 1917, however you label it, was meagre. Bolshevicks (translates as "majority") were actually in minority, and there was a strong resistance to their coup. They rode on the anti-war sentiment in the society. The reason the coup was at all possible, was the prior 3 years of devastating war, WWI, that Russia had no interests in and was drawn into by the simple act of defence agreement with Serbia. Nikolai II was a bad, weak ruler (praised in the West). If someone like Nikolai I or Alexander III or Paul I (all demonised by the British powers) stood at the helm then, the history would have been different.

By the way, the anatomy of the coup d'etat in Russia in 1917 is similar to that of in Ukraine in 2014 - the pretexts are different, but in both cases a small group took power through intimidation and terror against the population, claiming they act in the interests of said population.

Absorbing German bullets until they run out and freeze/cough/starve to death isn't heroism.   Cheesy

I think a few tens of million people will disagree with you, and this is exactly the reason I started this thread, so as to defend the memory of the people who laid their lives for peace against such poisonous remarks such as yours.

Finally, when you said

Regardless, if the Russians had stopped the Bolshevik Revolution then the Germans wouldn't have freaked out and went all crazy.

you utterly discredited yourself. It's the same as saying that the rape victim should go to jail for seducing and pure and innocent rapist. You also rewrite history. Look up the Versailles conditions for Germany's surrender to see what and who "freaked them out".

Is this the new scenario that the NATO trolls got distributed so as to demonise Russia and to rewrite history in one blow?

I think this will be my last "discussion" with you. Nothing will change you from the passionate Russia-hater, who is prepared to sacrifice truth and tell black is white in order to support your agenda. I won't put up with lies, even when they are directed at my enemies, but I also heed to a very good advice from Dilbert:

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."

PS: If you are such a Russophobe, maybe you should remove the image of the Russian "Arktika" icebreaker from your avatar - people may mistake you for a "pro-Russian".
http://sputniknews.com/photo/20120817/175277385.html




For those interested in some note on heroism in WWII, here is an article about operation "Bagration" - one of the largest assaults on the Belorussian front, conducted in 1944. If, as iCEBREAKER was poisonously insinuating, the Soviet people were simply taking in German bullets, there would not have been anyone left to fight all the way back to Berlin...

http://www.poznaibelarus.by/category/world-war-second/

Quote
In the summer of 1944 there was dealt a severe blow to the Nazi army in Belarus. During the operation, codenamed "Bagration", which lasted from June 23 to August 29, 1944 the main forces of Army Group "Center" were destroyed. The group of troops prepared to attack, included more than 2 million soldiers, more than 5,000 tanks and self-propelled guns, almost 5,000 aircraft.

The operation involved the armies of four fronts: the 1st Byelorussian Front (commanded by Rokossovsky), the 2nd Byelorussian Front (commanded by G.F.Zaharov), the 3rd Belorussian Front (commanded by I.D.Chernyahovsky), 1st Baltic (Commander by I.H.Bagramyan), as well as force the Dnieper Fleet.



105000 enemy troops and 5 divisions got surrounded in the "Misnk cauldron".

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March 21, 2015, 07:13:58 PM
 #35

About Finland. They were a part of Russian Empire until Lenin proclaimed them a separate state in 1917. Before that they were a part of Sweden. They still learn Swedish as a compulsory second language. He did the same with Latvia, Ukraine, Belorus, all of which were part of Russia and started to exists as separate entities on Lenin's whim, seeding the foundation to the problems that we have now

No, it's you, who are confused. In the first post you fixed things to saying that the war was won by winter weather. When I pointed out that winter does not last for 4 years, you switched to speaking about muddy summers.

"The Jew Bankers" is your words, not mine. I simply stated the nationality of the majority of the coup-makers of 1917. The rest is you attributing something that I did not say to me. A usual trick.

The support for the "Revolution" or coup d'etat of 1917, however you label it, was meagre. Bolshevicks (translates as "majority") were actually in minority, and there was a strong resistance to their coup. They rode on the anti-war sentiment in the society. The reason the coup was at all possible, was the prior 3 years of devastating war, WWI, that Russia had no interests in and was drawn into by the simple act of defence agreement with Serbia. Nikolai II was a bad, weak ruler (praised in the West). If someone like Nikolai I or Alexander III or Paul I (all demonised by the British powers) stood at the helm then, the history would have been different.

By the way, the anatomy of the coup d'etat in Russia in 1917 is similar to that of in Ukraine in 2014 - the pretexts are different, but in both cases a small group took power through intimidation and terror against the population, claiming they act in the interests of said population.

Absorbing German bullets until they run out and freeze/cough/starve to death isn't heroism.   Cheesy

I think a few tens of million people will disagree with you, and this is exactly the reason I started this thread, so as to defend the memory of the people who laid their lives for peace against such poisonous remarks such as yours.

Finally, when you said

Regardless, if the Russians had stopped the Bolshevik Revolution then the Germans wouldn't have freaked out and went all crazy.

you utterly discredited yourself. It's the same as saying that the rape victim should go to jail for seducing and pure and innocent rapist. You also rewrite history. Look up the Versailles conditions for Germany's surrender to see what and who "freaked them out".

Is this the new scenario that the NATO trolls got distributed so as to demonise Russia and to rewrite history in one blow?

I think this will be my last "discussion" with you. Nothing will change you from the passionate Russia-hater, who is prepared to sacrifice truth and tell black is white in order to support your agenda. I won't put up with lies, even when they are directed at my enemies, but I also heed to a very good advice from Dilbert:

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."

PS: If you are such a Russophobe, maybe you should remove the image of the Russian "Arktika" icebreaker from your avatar - people may mistake you for a "pro-Russian".

There you go again.  Comparing the murderous Communists, the bloody dictator Stalin, and the aggressive Soviet army with a rape victim.  Shame on you.  Is there no depth to which you will not sink in order to paint Russians as purely innocent eternally blameless naifs set upon by ruthless bourgeois kulaks, disloyal Finn/Polish/Ukrainian separatists and evil Jew bankers?

I didn't "switch to" talking about summers instead of winters.  I pointed out that *BOTH* snow and mud are not convenient to blitzkrieg.  Try using the AND operator, not the XOR function.

I'm no Russophobe.  Rather it is my Russophilia which motivates my hatred for the Communists who destroyed a great nation and lobotomized its population.  We would probably be colonizing Mars by now, if the USSR and its nasty historical entailments had not set back human progress by 50 years and tens of millions of lives.

I will not however avoid pointing out the faults and shortcomings of Russians.  Calling me a Russophobe for doing this is among those faults and shortcomings.   Wink

You never specify why Lenin's ethnicity has any relevance whatsoever.  You are coy about the implication, but we are not stupid and have heard that dog whistle blown before.  Don't be shy, just come out with your silly Protocols nonsense so we can all have a good laugh at you and your shambling, paranoid attempts at deflection.

I agree with the great Russian writer Solzhenitsyn when he says history would have been different if Russians had loved freedom enough to resist the Marxist thugs, and thus deserve the consequences for their treasonous support of the Reds and betrayal of the Whites:

Quote
And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn


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March 23, 2015, 11:24:10 AM
 #36


About Finland. They were a part of Russian Empire until Lenin proclaimed them a separate state in 1917.

Why would he do such a strange thing?

Quote
Before that they were a part of Sweden. They still learn Swedish as a compulsory second language. He did the same with Latvia, Ukraine, Belorus, all of which were part of Russia and started to exists as separate entities on Lenin's whim, seeding the foundation to the problems that we have now

Were their languages and cultures also invented by Lenin? I'm not arrogant enough to think that I know what really happened in that period of history (unlike you, I wasn't alive 100 years ago), but when something smells so strongly of bullshit, it's probably bullshit. It wouldn't surprise me if that fairytale about "ethnic Russians" who mysteriously became Finns, Latvians, Ukrainian, Belarus, etc. "because of Lenin" in your crazy whitewashed history, were actually causing all kinds of problems for the Russian Empire. There was probably a lot of violent opposition, but that was all deleted from your history books.


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seeding the foundation to the problems that we have now

You want to know what's really seeding the foundation for more problems? Russian amnesia.
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March 23, 2015, 12:53:22 PM
 #37

I thought about your comment a bit more, and I see a big problem in the second part of it. It does not pertain to the article itself, which is about remembrance of how WWII ended, but about a fundamental fault line in Hungary, that can be used implement a divide-and-conquer colour revolution in Hungary. The way you talk about "us and them" and "true Hungarians", is a way to disaster - exactly what we should be on the look-out for if we are not to walk blindly into yet another (final) world war.

As most of the "them" are not even considering themselves as Hungarians, I don't see any problem.

Quote
There is nothing for me to be happy with - I am an ethnic Russian, and you should remember that the ring-leaders of the red colour revolution of 1917 in Russia were almost entirely of Jewish origin, financed from the West.

Also, I am not entirely sure what you meant by "we are not at all grateful for exporting democracy and freedom for us" did you mean the Western powers? OR the Soviet system (which was definitely not a democracy - an irony, as "soviet" means "council" and in theory implied direct democracy).

The article is about how the outcome of WWII is subtly altered exactly to the sentiments that you expressed in your comment.

No, I exactly mean the USSR. They also came with the democracy and freedom bullshit when they slowly got rid of the last democratically elected parliament between 1945 and 1948 (with the help of the NKVD) and replaced it with Rakosi and his buddies. (The same stock as the 1917 revolutionary leadership and Porky and Rats today.) Then in 1956 when the ppl revolted against these bastards Khrushchev sent 17 divisions to deal with the "fascist hordes" (cca. 20-30 000 militia and armed civilians). You might see some similar events today... Wink

Quote
Stepping carefully on the steep stairs, I climb Mount Gellert: in 1947 there was a monument to 80,000 Soviet soldiers killed in the battle for the capital of Hungary. You can see in my photos what’s left of it – a bronze figure of a soldier with the PCA has been removed, five-pointed star is removed, the names of all 146 who died in the battle for Gellert carefully erased from the marble stella – a monument was simply made impersonal. And not far from another obelisk to the soldiers of the USSR in the center of Budapest (at Freedom Square), there is even a monument to… an ally of Hitler – dictator Miklos Horthy. And even though this initiative is not coming from the government, but from the far-right party “Jobbik”, the closeness is quite disgusting.

At first, for the non-brainwashed Hungarians Horthy was a war hero and later a great politician who restored order and law during and after the communist revolution in 1919. With his leadership the country successfully recovered from the consequences of the first great war. He also did everything what he could to keep Hungary away from WW2. Unfortunately he wasn't a dictator that's why the "hawkish" pro-German parties in the parliament finally were able to bring the country into a war.

Second. Jobbik isn't a far right party. It's a quite nationalist conservative party what is brave enough to touch some taboos, including holding an accounting about the privatizations in the early 90's. (That was what really blown the fuse in the MSM and in the members or the then ruling parties.) BTW they are that pro-Russian kind of nazis, and the only party in the Parliament what supported and keep supporting the DPR and LPR politically and with donations. (You should read less MSM bullshit, mate Smiley)

That monument is the symbol of more than half century of occupation, suppression and tens of thousands of ppl who died in the basements of the Andrassy Street 60, erected by the most hated government in Hungarian history for a bunch of honest soldiers but for a lot of rapists, looters and murderers as well. Are you really surprised because of we don't like it?

Quote
So, now it's hot summers and not cold winters that were a deciding factor, eh. Let's add to the mix that Soviet Union have several climatic zones, including dry steppe regions in, for example, Crimea. Novorossijsk was bombed by the Germans for two years before they managed to conquer the city.

You are trying to diminish the heroism of the people by trying to find whatever alternative explanation you can and pushing the huge human sacrifice to the second row, or even obliterating it altogether. And this is one of the weapons used by the Western propaganda machine - the weather myth is one of them.

Also, now it's Russians and the destruction of their country that is to blame for the German aggression. The revolution, the red colour revolution of 1917, was implemented by the Western powers. Don't try to shift the blame on the victims.

The weather conditions and the transport network were two important factors in the German defeat indeed. Recently I've seen a youtube video about the these aspects of the siege of Stalingrad, and the German gear was really inferior to the Russian equipment between such conditions. Actually my great grandfather who fought on the eastern front told me the same. They often used captured Russian arms and garments instead of their govt issued stuff because of those were better suited for the local conditions and ammunition was relative easy to collect. Transport... well, many times the supplies were sitting in warehouses some 800 kilometres behind the lines because of on the few available transport routes the Germans prioritized their own supplies and that still wasn't enough
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March 23, 2015, 10:16:16 PM
 #38

At first, for the non-brainwashed Hungarians Horthy was a war hero and later a great politician who restored order and law during and after the communist revolution in 1919. With his leadership the country successfully recovered from the consequences of the first great war. He also did everything what he could to keep Hungary away from WW2. Unfortunately he wasn't a dictator that's why the "hawkish" pro-German parties in the parliament finally were able to bring the country into a war.

Second. Jobbik isn't a far right party. It's a quite nationalist conservative party what is brave enough to touch some taboos, including holding an accounting about the privatizations in the early 90's. (That was what really blown the fuse in the MSM and in the members or the then ruling parties.) BTW they are that pro-Russian kind of nazis, and the only party in the Parliament what supported and keep supporting the DPR and LPR politically and with donations. (You should read less MSM bullshit, mate Smiley)

That monument is the symbol of more than half century of occupation, suppression and tens of thousands of ppl who died in the basements of the Andrassy Street 60, erected by the most hated government in Hungarian history for a bunch of honest soldiers but for a lot of rapists, looters and murderers as well. Are you really surprised because of we don't like it?

An interesting historical account, and I thank you for it. I am not actually that informed about the going ons in Hungary. I try to avoid MSM. AiF is a pretty open platform that gives voice to all kinds of views, and that's what I like about it. From your words, I can see a clear parallel why Jobbik would be demonised, because the same occurred in Russia when Putin came to power and started to clean up in the privatisation mess (the Khodorkovskij and Yukos case are the most publicised)

It's a pity that the symbolism of the War memorial shifted the way you describe it, because really, first and foremost, it is a memory for those thousands people fallen to push the Nazis out. Don't you have some Lenin statues left to declare them as hated symbols of occupation? Wink

When you talk about looters and murderers, are you referring to Soviet soldiers? From what I know, those divisions fighting on the Western front had strict orders about code of conduct, and looting or other untoward activities on liberated territories was punishable by death. (By the way, the fighters of DNR and LNR have adopted the same code of conducts as was used by the Soviet Army during WWII)

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March 23, 2015, 10:24:54 PM
 #39

Medvedev announced today that 12 billion roubles have been set aside from the state budget to pay one-time pensions to war veterans and their widows in Russia, as well as in Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, in commemoration of the 70th anniversary.

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March 27, 2015, 04:58:59 PM
 #40

The following fragment of a comment by Lada Ray to a reader comment to her post here
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/crazy-asylum-called-ukraine-west-wont-give-us-weapons-if-we-have-peace/
is very much worth reading on its own:

Quote
Changing the mindset – here’s a very well known historic example: still in April 1945 Germans, based on Nazi propaganda, not only believed Russia was the enemy, but also thought that German army was winning the war and they just had to wait a few more months for their final victory. By May 2-8, 1945, when Russian army took Berlin, Germans were forming lines to Russian soup kitchens, happy Russians fed them. When several months later most Russian troops were leaving Berlin, locals were running after tanks with flowers and tears in their eyes, sorry to let them go. Communist Party took over East Germany not only because Russian troops were there, but also because people rightly saw that Russians didn’t bomb them into oblivion, after Germans had done so to the Russian cities.

Incidentally, UK and US aviation mass bombed Dresden and other German cities into a pulp, just before Russian army rolled in. You would think Germans and Japanese should hate them, but no, best buddies. That’s why hatred towards a certain people is almost always an artificially induced psychosis that has no connection to reality, and most time absolutely superficial, present in a small %age of the population – others are just parroting. People in general don’t think and they are were good parrots, as we see in Ukraine.
Incidentally, Russians don’t hate Germans, despite what Germans did to Russia during WWII. Because there never was anti-German propaganda in Russia.

I’ve been to Dresden – US/UK bombings completely destroyed the city, which had no military or any other significance other than the fact that it was on the way of advancement of the Soviet Army, to show Russians they could do it. Same as they did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In Dresden, they used napalm and other chemicals too, so the population would burn alive and die from suffocation. Not because it was needed, but because they were trying to intimidate Russians. Hiroshima was also a warning to Russia, which of course didn’t work, as we know from history as Russians had their own A-bomb in a jiffy. Generally, trying to intimidate Russians has the opposite effect.

So, they killed hundreds of thousands and destroyed whole cities to SEND A WARNING TO RUSSIA! And of course so Russians would have to spend resources to raise the city out of ruins later, when peace came, since it was already known that Dresden would be in the Russian occupation zone. They purposefully destroyed something they knew would fall on the Russian shoulders. Same as they are doing now to Ukraine, I might add!

Who is the evil empire again – and always has been? Those of my naive US readers (not you, of course) who think US was at one point or another a nice, gentle, democratic country, should really open their eyes. The documentaries, with footage of the brutal Dresden bombings should be available on YouTube. I am sure after a search one can also find the documentaries with people all over Europe throwing flowers, hugging and greeting Soviet soldiers as liberators.

Again, this info is very thoroughly suppressed by the West; they may even delete documentaries about how Europe greeted the Soviet army. These documentraries are available in Russian on YT I think, if not in English. I saw plenty of such documentaries growing up, because they were understandably not suppressed in Russia.

(As to brainwashing and falsification of history: I have so many facts – too many, as history has been completely and totally falsified – that I could talk for hours.)

All over Europe, Russia was considered THE liberator. That was when people still knew first-hand who did what during the war and before they were brainwashed. Stalin and communist party were the most popular party in most European countries. Italy, Greece, France and some other countries were leaning towards communism. So much so that US/UK/global capitalist elites panicked and started acting fast to ERAZE THE IMAGE OF RUSSIA AS LIBERATOR AND RE-CREATE THE IMAGE OF RUSSIA AS A VILLAIN. What they will never tell you in US or EU (god forbid admitting it) is that in 1945-1955 ALL of Europe was deeply communist, or communist sympathising, because they saw who liberated them and were convinced communism or socialism were the way to go.

Do you know what happened in Italy? After the war, communists had the majority in parliament, but the country was destroyed and people were starving. US gave ultimatum: Italy will get money and food, if they boot out communists. And Italians did, to get US loans. Same happened in some other countries.

Then US moved in with its MSM. And within 10-20 years they completely falsified history and convinced the popualtion AGAIN! that Russia was evil. The Marshall Plan was a bribe and a dangling carrot for Europe, and especially for the elites. Elites, for money and because they had no choice as they had to rebuild the destroyed continent, all started singing ‘Russia is evil’ song for money and percieved US protection. How’s that different from mafia?
Then US MSM took over the whole Europe and the globe. US was the last man standing, and after WWII, US got control over the rich Western Europe. Russia had to rebuild herself after war, and also drag along the poorest countries of Eastern Europe. And still USSR did better than US until…
Then, certain mistakes by USSR, specifically Khrushev, such as allowing dollar to become world reserve currency, created a time bomb we are dealing with now. This is a long story and has to do with Stalin and his death by poisoning.

So, blaming Russia for not doing enough in Ukraine, or for not having enough influence in the EU, or not having a good MSM propaganda, isn’t right, if all facts are understood. Russia had to fight a very unequal fight, which started long before WWII (in fact, 1000 years ago, when the Galactic Night began). But between 1917, and especially after WWII, this fight entered its acute and final phase before the great Earth Shift, or the beginning of the Galactic Dawn, which we are experiencing now.

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“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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