Bitcoin Forum
December 18, 2017, 07:20:01 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Pool Manager Fraud?  (Read 3196 times)
Geremia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462


View Profile WWW
March 18, 2015, 05:11:04 PM
 #1

A pro miner I know, who outputs 2+ ptaHash/sec, said to me "Every major pool had been caught with their hand in the cookie jar."

Is this true? Which pools should I avoid, due to their managers being fraudulent?

BTC tip jar | my BTC wiki, BTC StackExchange, & Twister posts pages | Tox ID: 65C3E8810738AD9D175234808FCB317A1103632903436203D45411AE97C03F54C34861AB6663
Join Kraken. | The best, free book on Bitcoin: Mastering Bitcoin
Nos cum prole pia benedicat Virgo Maria.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513581601
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513581601

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513581601
Reply with quote  #2

1513581601
Report to moderator
1513581601
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513581601

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513581601
Reply with quote  #2

1513581601
Report to moderator
1513581601
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513581601

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513581601
Reply with quote  #2

1513581601
Report to moderator
loshia
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1610


View Profile
March 18, 2015, 06:37:53 PM
 #2

I can recomend following pools the order is random
Bitminter
Kano
Btcguild

Because I trust the people who run the pools. That is a personal opinion of course

I will avoid at any cost a Antpool,  f2pool and so on. I am talking about all CHINESE pools in general

If you feel brave you can go solo take all or nothing Wink you got the jar and the honey if you are lucky

P2pool is ok also but you will face "jar" unrelated issues there....

Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643999.msg7191563#msg7191563
And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D
Geremia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462


View Profile WWW
March 18, 2015, 07:17:05 PM
 #3

I will avoid at any cost a Antpool
My friend uses AntPool, but doesn't truest Eligius for some reason…

BTC tip jar | my BTC wiki, BTC StackExchange, & Twister posts pages | Tox ID: 65C3E8810738AD9D175234808FCB317A1103632903436203D45411AE97C03F54C34861AB6663
Join Kraken. | The best, free book on Bitcoin: Mastering Bitcoin
Nos cum prole pia benedicat Virgo Maria.
loshia
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1610


View Profile
March 18, 2015, 07:18:02 PM
 #4

I will avoid at any cost a Antpool
My friend uses AntPool, but doesn't truest Eligius for some reason…
As I said it is up to you to decide.....
That is all I can say....
All of the above is just my personal opinion.
Not mentioning a particular pool in my list does just means I have no impressions from pool and I have not used it.but once again important part is what to avoid in my oppinion  Wink
Good luck to you

Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643999.msg7191563#msg7191563
And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D
cathoderay
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 379


Welcome to dogietalk.bs


View Profile
March 18, 2015, 07:28:49 PM
 #5

I can recomend following pools the order is random
Bitminter
Kano
Btcguild

Because I trust the people who run the pools. That is a personal opinion of course


Good choices. I'll add to that list of pools to avoid:

BAN
Ghash.io

Both got caught with their pants down...... Cheesy

Have you been a victim of dogie insults, neg-rep'd for no reason or been falsely accused by him? If so, air your experiences here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=905210.0
Avoid manipulative Exchanges - Localbitcoins.com
rkinnin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 318


View Profile
March 24, 2015, 02:46:25 AM
 #6

I pro miner I know, who outputs 2+ ptaHash/sec, said to me "Every major pool had been caught with their hand in the cookie jar."

Is this true? Which pools should I avoid, due to their managers being fraudulent?

I have been mining for a year now, two weeks ago.

What I have noticed is that most Pool Mgrs are part-timers. 

I am curious.....what financial benefit does a reputable pool manager get for their efforts??

bhanu545
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
March 24, 2015, 02:43:49 PM
 #7

I tried almost all the famous pools and i can say pool managers can steal if they want to without getting caught. Everyone has their own versions on the pools they use. So, try yourself and stick to any pool you like. Earnings are mainly affected by pools badluck, good luck. About pool owners stealing candy, no one can trace them Smiley you can consider it as a donation if they are really stealing because, all you can do is nothing  Grin
OgNasty
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2394


Irrational Exuberance


View Profile WWW
March 24, 2015, 08:53:05 PM
 #8

I trust these guys.   Grin

BITSLER                 ▄███
               ▄████▀
             ▄████▀
           ▄████▀  ▄██▄
         ▄████▀    ▀████▄
       ▄████▀        ▀████▄
     ▄████▀            ▀████▄
   ▄████▀                ▀████▄
 ▄████▀ ▄████▄      ▄████▄ ▀████▄
█████   ██████      ██████   █████
 ▀████▄ ▀████▀      ▀████▀ ▄████▀
   ▀████▄                ▄████▀
     ▀████▄            ▄████▀
       ▀████▄        ▄████▀
         ▀████▄    ▄████▀
           ▀████▄▄████▀
             ▀██████▀
               ▀▀▀▀
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄            
▄▄▄▄▀▀▀▀    ▄▄█▄▄ ▀▀▄         
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄      
█  ▀▄▄  ▀█▀▀ ▄      ▀████   ▀▀▄   
█ █▄  ▀▄   ▀████       ▀▀ ▄██▄ ▀▀▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
█  ▀▀       ▀▄▄ ▀████      ▄▄▄▀▀▀  █
█            ▄ ▀▄    ▄▄▄▀▀▀   ▄▄  █
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
█ ▄▄   ███   ▀██  █           ▀▀  █ 
█ ███  ▀██       █        ▄▄      █ 
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  
▀▄            █        ▀▀      █  
▀▀▄   ███▄  █   ▄▄          █   
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀    
▀▀▄   █   ▀▀▄▄▄▀▀▀         
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▄▄▀▀▀▀              
              ▄▄▄██████▄▄▄
          ▄▄████████████████▄▄
        ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄
▄     ▄█████▀             ▀█████▄
██▄▄ █████▀                ▀█████
 ████████            ▄██      █████
  ████████▄         ███▀       ████▄
  █████████▀▀     ▄███▀        █████
   █▀▀▀          █████         █████
     ▄▄▄         ████          █████
   █████          ▀▀           ████▀
    █████                     █████
     █████▄                 ▄█████
      ▀█████▄             ▄█████▀
        ▀██████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██████▀
          ▀▀████████████████▀▀
              ▀▀▀██████▀▀▀
            ▄▄▄███████▄▄▄
         ▄█▀▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀▀█▄
       █▀▀ ▄█████████████▄ ▀▀█
     █▀▀ ███████████████████ ▀▀█
    █▀ ███████████████████████ ▀█
   █▀ ███████████████▀▀ ███████ ▀█
 ▄█▀ ██████████████▀      ▀█████ ▀█▄
███ ███████████▀▀            ▀▀██ ███
███ ███████▀▀                     ███
███ ▀▀▀▀                          ███
▀██▄                             ▄██▀
  ▀█▄                            ▀▀
    █▄       █▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█
     █▄      ▀█████████▀
      ▀█▄      ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
        ▀▀█▄▄  ▄▄▄
            ▀▀█████
[]
Meuh6879
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456



View Profile
March 25, 2015, 12:46:37 AM
 #9

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool.  Grin
Easy.
kano
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2296


Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


View Profile
March 25, 2015, 04:49:03 AM
 #10

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool.  Grin
Easy.
Just remember to setup a good p2pool mining setup as good as the best ones on p2pool.
Otherwise the other miners on p2pool with a better setup are taking some of your BTC ...

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
sgk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204


!! HODL !!


View Profile
March 25, 2015, 08:53:37 AM
 #11

BAN
Ghash.io

Both got caught with their pants down...... Cheesy

I'm not aware of what happened with Ghash.io

Can you please elaborate?

organofcorti
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2044


Poor impulse control.


View Profile WWW
March 25, 2015, 11:09:00 AM
 #12

I pro miner I know, who outputs 2+ ptaHash/sec, said to me "Every major pool had been caught with their hand in the cookie jar."

Is this true? Which pools should I avoid, due to their managers being fraudulent?

This is bullshit. If I were you I'd ask for proof, but I don't think your friend has any chance of providing it. It was probably just hyperbola on his part.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
follow @oocBlog for new post notifications
IYFTech
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686


WANTED: Active dev to fix & re-write p2pool in C


View Profile
March 25, 2015, 05:33:23 PM
 #13


I'm not aware of what happened with Ghash.io


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327767.0

-- Smiley  Thank you for smoking  Smiley --  If you paid VAT to dogie for items you should read this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1018906.0
armedmilitia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 576


We're going to need a bigger heatsink.


View Profile WWW
March 29, 2015, 12:19:53 AM
 #14

I recommend slush, they're the first mining pool ever, still running today.
They have a 2% fee, but they're pretty stable. And low variance too because they have a pretty big market share. (5%)

Always use escrow. OgNasty is pretty sweet.

Help me out with compiling a list of mining datacenters!
Geremia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462


View Profile WWW
April 02, 2015, 10:13:24 PM
 #15

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool.  Grin
Easy.
Wow, thank you for bringing P2Pool to my attention. I'd never heard of it before, but it's an ingenious idea.

What do you mean:
Just remember to setup a good p2pool mining setup as good as the best ones on p2pool.
Otherwise the other miners on p2pool with a better setup are taking some of your BTC ...
?

BTC tip jar | my BTC wiki, BTC StackExchange, & Twister posts pages | Tox ID: 65C3E8810738AD9D175234808FCB317A1103632903436203D45411AE97C03F54C34861AB6663
Join Kraken. | The best, free book on Bitcoin: Mastering Bitcoin
Nos cum prole pia benedicat Virgo Maria.
jonnybravo0311
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Mine at Jonny's Pool


View Profile WWW
April 02, 2015, 10:24:47 PM
 #16

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool.  Grin
Easy.
Wow, thank you for bringing P2Pool to my attention. I'd never heard of it before, but it's an ingenious idea.

What do you mean:
Just remember to setup a good p2pool mining setup as good as the best ones on p2pool.
Otherwise the other miners on p2pool with a better setup are taking some of your BTC ...
?
Kano means that you need to setup your node and ensure it has decent hardware... Is connected to other widely connected nodes... Is ideally on the same network as your mining hardware... You want to ensure that you get as few dead/orphan shares as possible and that you have a low DOA rate.  The better connected you are the better your chances of being successful in submitting viable shares and reaping the full rewards when a block is found.

Also ensure that your miners are submitting stale shares.  The standard firmware on Ants for example discards them... Even though they may be valid solutions for a block.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
kano
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2296


Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


View Profile
April 02, 2015, 10:58:41 PM
 #17

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool.  Grin
Easy.
Wow, thank you for bringing P2Pool to my attention. I'd never heard of it before, but it's an ingenious idea.

What do you mean:
Just remember to setup a good p2pool mining setup as good as the best ones on p2pool.
Otherwise the other miners on p2pool with a better setup are taking some of your BTC ...
?
... and to add more explanation Smiley
A share on the p2pool share chain is pretty much the same as a block on the Bitcoin block chain.
You don't send out a p2pool share and get it every time.
If 2 p2pool shares are sent out, built off the same previous p2pool share, one of them will not be paid.
Add on top of that, the p2pool share chain averages a new share every ~30s instead of ~600s like the block chain, so network connectivity and latency has 20x the effect.

For the Bitcoin block chain, to get the least block orphans, a pool (or solo) must ensure it is well connected, has low block distribution latency to the rest of the bitcoin network, is able to process incoming shares quickly, and, of course, the pool itself isn't struggling to get enough CPU for bitcoind

Thus on p2pool the same issue exists with p2pool share chain shares.
The p2pool nodes with the same attributes above will lose fewer shares.
When you notice that something like 10% of p2pool shares are DOA/Stale you need to realise that is only the average.
So if someone is consistently getting 5% DOA/Stale due to having a good setup, that means 95% of their work is being paid instead of only 90% like the p2pool average.
i.e. they get a better share of each block for the work they submit.

Every new share on the p2pool share chain means you need your p2pool to know about it as quickly as possible and switch your miners to the new work based on the latest successful share in the share chain.
Any delays with those ~30s p2pool share chain updates and that delay represents how much time of the ~30s average you are hashing work that wont be paid.
Using a remote p2pool, of course, exacerbates the latency issue due to the ~30s average.
Using a miner that takes time to switch work also makes that a problem since it is all about what % of ~30s you are working on the latest p2pool share chain share.

...
Also ensure that your miners are submitting stale shares.  The standard firmware on Ants for example discards them... Even though they may be valid solutions for a block.
~95% of DOA/Stale shares on p2pool that are also blocks, are valid bitcoin blocks.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
Mikestang
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994



View Profile
April 02, 2015, 11:44:08 PM
 #18

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool.  Grin
Easy.
Wow, thank you for bringing P2Pool to my attention. I'd never heard of it before, but it's an ingenious idea.

What do you mean:
Just remember to setup a good p2pool mining setup as good as the best ones on p2pool.
Otherwise the other miners on p2pool with a better setup are taking some of your BTC ...
?
... and to add more explanation Smiley
A share on the p2pool share chain is pretty much the same as a block on the Bitcoin block chain.
You don't send out a p2pool share and get it every time.
If 2 p2pool shares are sent out, built off the same previous p2pool share, one of them will not be paid.
Add on top of that, the p2pool share chain averages a new share every ~30s instead of ~600s like the block chain, so network connectivity and latency has 20x the effect.

For the Bitcoin block chain, to get the least block orphans, a pool (or solo) must ensure it is well connected, has low block distribution latency to the rest of the bitcoin network, is able to process incoming shares quickly, and, of course, the pool itself isn't struggling to get enough CPU for bitcoind

Thus on p2pool the same issue exists with p2pool share chain shares.
The p2pool nodes with the same attributes above will lose fewer shares.
When you notice that something like 10% of p2pool shares are DOA/Stale you need to realise that is only the average.
So if someone is consistently getting 5% DOA/Stale due to having a good setup, that means 95% of their work is being paid instead of only 90% like the p2pool average.
i.e. they get a better share of each block for the work they submit.

Every new share on the p2pool share chain means you need your p2pool to know about it as quickly as possible and switch your miners to the new work based on the latest successful share in the share chain.
Any delays with those ~30s p2pool share chain updates and that delay represents how much time of the ~30s average you are hashing work that wont be paid.
Using a remote p2pool, of course, exacerbates the latency issue due to the ~30s average.
Using a miner that takes time to switch work also makes that a problem since it is all about what % of ~30s you are working on the latest p2pool share chain share.

...
Also ensure that your miners are submitting stale shares.  The standard firmware on Ants for example discards them... Even though they may be valid solutions for a block.
~95% of DOA/Stale shares on p2pool that are also blocks, are valid bitcoin blocks.

And this is why I mine in Kano's pool, the fact that he took the time to explain how another pool functions (not because of how p2pool operates).  You have to trust the people who run the pool, otherwise you could be short changing yourself.
Geremia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2015, 06:11:15 PM
 #19

A share on the p2pool share chain is pretty much the same as a block on the Bitcoin block chain.
Conceptually, but certainly not difficulty-wise.

BTC tip jar | my BTC wiki, BTC StackExchange, & Twister posts pages | Tox ID: 65C3E8810738AD9D175234808FCB317A1103632903436203D45411AE97C03F54C34861AB6663
Join Kraken. | The best, free book on Bitcoin: Mastering Bitcoin
Nos cum prole pia benedicat Virgo Maria.
Geremia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2015, 06:13:53 PM
 #20

ensure that your miners are submitting stale shares.
Yes, bfgminer, for example, has the option "--submit-stale".
The standard firmware on Ants for example discards them... Even though they may be valid solutions for a block.
Why does "The standard firmware on Ants for example discards" stale shares?

BTC tip jar | my BTC wiki, BTC StackExchange, & Twister posts pages | Tox ID: 65C3E8810738AD9D175234808FCB317A1103632903436203D45411AE97C03F54C34861AB6663
Join Kraken. | The best, free book on Bitcoin: Mastering Bitcoin
Nos cum prole pia benedicat Virgo Maria.
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!