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Author Topic: [ANN] CoinLab Protected Pool  (Read 93897 times)
CoinLab
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August 09, 2012, 11:08:19 PM
 #1

What is CoinLab Offering?


UPDATE: We have stopped giving out new Loyalty Points as of midnight UTC Sunday 11/25/12.  You may continue to mine on Protected as long as you'd like and continue earning 95/97%.  Redeem pool is being set up now.

The text below will be preserved as-is for archival purposes.


======================================

CoinLab Protected Pool - 95-97% PPS Pool with Protected Earnings
Earn 95% PPS plus Loyalty Points.  When ASICs make GPU mining unprofitable, you can redeem your Loyalty Points to get $2.5 per GH/s per day on submitted shares. Protect the future of your GPU!

97% PPS for users who mine at least 1,125,000 shares in a week (the equivalent of 1 week at 10GH/s with perfect uptime, or 3.5 days with perfect uptime at 20GH/s...).

98% PPS Pool
This is just a simple 98% PPS pool.  No earnings protection is offered.


PPS Pool's rate is now 95%

Worried about GPU Bitcoin Mining becoming Unprofitable?


Many Bitcoin miners are worried about the day when their graphics cards will no longer be able to earn as much as they do now.  When GPUs replaced CPUs for mining, the value of mining on a CPU dropped dramatically, and eventually became completely uneconomical.



We are on the cusp of a new generation of technological improvement as custom chips are being designed for Bitcoin mining (FPGAs and ASICs).  While these new chips are not general purpose computing devices, they are designed to mine Bitcoins at rates 10 to 100 times more efficiently than even GPUs can today.

If Bitcoin prices drop to the marginal cost of mining using specialized hardware, current GPUs could become useless for Bitcoin mining (since you’ll earn less than your electricity costs).

Protect Yourself from a Price Drop

To help protect against a possible price drop, CoinLab is now offering a Bitcoin mining pool, that comes with a minimum price guarantee!  For every share that you mine at today’s prices, we’ll guarantee to pay you the equivalent of $2.50 per GH/s-day ($0.00012427 PPS) in case the current market rate for mining drops below that level.



This is a “loyalty program”; we want to you start mining with us today, and in return we’ll guarantee your income in the future if you stay with us.  We pay a competitive market-rate of 95% pay-per-share (PPS), delivered to you in Bitcoins.  But for each share you earn, you’ll also be able to bank a “Loyalty Point”.  

Example
If you mine with us for 6 months before the price drops below $2.50, you’ll have enough shares to earn the minimum price of $2.50 for the next 6 months (assuming equivalent hash rates during both periods).  Or, you could sell half of your rig, and those loyalty points will last 1/2 the hashing power twice as long: 12 months. Or, double your hashing power and use all of your Loyalty Points up in 3 months.


The current expected earnings from a 1GH/s for 24 hours is $5.37 (using price of $11.7 and difficulty 2190865.9701).  On our 95%PPS pool, you'll be earning $5.10 per 1GH/s per day.

This program gives you protection against three risk factors:

1. Difficulty goes up dramatically - so that earned shares get much fewer Bitcoins per block.
2. The Bitcoin cliff cuts the number of Bitcoins earned per solved block in half (now 50 BTC, new blocks will only pay out 25 BTC) - expected in December 2012.
3. The price of Bitcoins themselves drop to match the marginal cost of mining with custom hardware.

How can CoinLab make this Offer?

We are in the business of building a a world-wide distributed computing service.  While today, you can earn money from mining Bitcoins, we want to be able to bring you other scientific computing jobs that will pay as much or higher than the rate of Bitcoin mining.

So, if you’ll help us build out our network, we’ll commit to providing you with profitable work for your idle GPU cycles.  We’re willing to take the risk that we won’t be able to find higher-value replacement work, in return for your agreeing to join our network.

We’ve identified a number of opportunities to monetize our growing GPU cluster at a higher rate than Bitcoin mining, particularly for NVIDIA cards:  Protein Folding, Computational Finance, and Big Data Analysis, just to name a few. We believe we will be able to monetize computation at a higher rate than Bitcoins before mining profitability takes a serious drop.  However, you probably don’t want to take on our sales risk. If mining earnings drop before our other computation jobs come online then we are willing to eat the difference until then.

We are looking for GPU miners who can give us lots of hashing power with high uptime who are willing to run our custom mining client.  We have structured this program to reward these miners most: the more shares you submit before earnings drop under the price floor, the more Loyalty Point shares you will be able to mine when it would otherwise not be profitable.

The Fine Print

  • For every difficulty 1 share (from here, called a credit) you submit above break even (equal to our price floor factoring in our cut - $2.50 / 1GH/s day / 0.95 = ~$2.63 / GH day), you earn 95% PPS for that credit and one Loyalty Point which lets you sell one credit at the price floor ($2.5 / 1GH/s day = $0.00012427 PPS).
  • For the next couple months, you can earn credits with the miner of your choice.  Once we release it, we will only accept credits submitted by our custom mining client (co-developed with Con Kolivas, the creator of cgminer), as it will allow us to perform other, more valuable compute jobs when available.  
  • Loyalty Point credits can only be redeemed through our custom mining client.
  • We may perform other types of computation with your GPU besides Bitcoin mining.  We will calculate your earnings based on the equivalent number of credits your card would have produced for the same amount of work.
  • Payments for computation will be in Bitcoin, and occur once per week.  This system will be manually administered at first, so please be patient.  We’ll have a self-service system in the next few months which will automate payouts and sign-ups.
  • Payouts will only occur when your balance is at least 1 BTC.  If you wish to withdraw a smaller increment, contact us.
  • If you earn more than $600 worth of BTC in one calendar year and are in the US, we may need to send you a form 1099 to report our payments to you to the IRS (we will need your name, address, and US tax id). Miners in this group also get the option of  receiving US dollar payouts, or a mixture of USD and BTC (you can take your electricity costs in USD and keep your profits in BTC). We’re evaluating a means of waiving this requirement, so we’ll keep you posted.
  • You can redeem your Loyalty Points by mining on the redeem pool.  See the instructions here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99643.msg1350491#msg1350491
    Loyalty Points are redeemed automatically whenever you mine and the market rate for Bitcoin mining is below $2.50 per GH/s-day.
  • Loyalty Points are not transferable.  
  • Loyalty Points expire 2 years after the earnings from Bitcoin mining crosses below the price floor of $2.50 / 1GH/s-day.  If the price swings above the price floor and back down, the expiration date is reset.
  • Loyalty Points expire after 90 days of account inactivity.  Account inactivity is defined as not submitting any shares and not communicating with us.
  • Loyalty Points have no cash value.
  • Bitcoin payouts will only be sent to you.  If you want to send them on to someone else, you need to take possession of them from us first.
  • Users who submit at least 1,125,000 shares in one week will be paid at the increased rate of 97% PPS.  1,125,000 shares is equivalent to 100% uptime with 10GH/s for one week.  Double the hash rate will earn this many shares in half the time.  (Ex. If you have 15 GH/s, you will reach 1,125,000 shares 66% of the way through the week.) The new week begins each Monday.  Early on-request payouts will be credited at 95% PPS unless you have already earned 1,125,000 shares that week.  
  • CoinLab’s services and offerings including this program and the Loyalty Points are subject to Terms and Conditions posted by CoinLab from time-to-time.  Terms related to this offer will made publicly available in the next week.

How do I join?

To sign up for our 95% Protected Pool, go here:
http://pool.coinlab.com/partners/protected/sign-up

To sign up for our 98% 95% PPS pool (no Loyalty Points), go here:
http://pool.coinlab.com/partners/ppspool/sign-up

We'll email you instructions to get started.
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CoinLab
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August 09, 2012, 11:09:26 PM
 #2

Announcements

8/13/12 - Loyalty points now expire 2 years after the price drop, extended from 6 months.

8/20/12 - Users who contribute an average hashrate of 10GH/s over the week (submit a total of at least 1,125,000 shares) will now earn 97% PPS

8/20/12 - Web Interface for checking your mining performance is now live at http://pool.coinlab.com/partners/protected/

9/17/12 - Email idle notifications now available:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99643.msg1199339#msg1199339

9/17/12 - Changed payout period from Sunday at 12:00 AM UTC (Saturday night's midnight) to the following Sunday at 12:00AM.  From next week, the payout amount you receive will match the values seen in the web interface.

10/1/12 - Automated sign-up process now online!

10/2/12 - First version of the custom client is planned to ship 11/1

10/5/12 - Worker Update!  You can now mine with multiple workers, and create workers on the fly: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99643.msg1248241#msg1248241

11/5/12 - Miner PPS Rate Elasticity Experiment begins - we're now intermittently paying rates up to 200% PPS to learn how miners respond to changing PPS rates. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99643.msg1318535#msg1318535

11/21/12 - Loyalty Point Redemption Plan announced: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99643.msg1350491#msg1350491

11/26/12 - Loyalty Points issuance has ceased as of Sunday at midnight UTC on 11/25/12.
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August 10, 2012, 12:36:21 AM
 #3

So is the current Payout $2.50 Per Day Per 1.0 Ghz?

CoinLab
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August 10, 2012, 12:45:19 AM
 #4

So is the current Payout $2.50 Per Day Per 1.0 Ghz?



Current payout is 95% PPS.  When earnings drop below $2.50 per 1GH/s for 24 hours, we pay $2.50.  The number of shares you can submit at the price floor is the number of shares you submitted before it dropped.
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August 10, 2012, 12:55:23 AM
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This smells like a scam. Difficulty doesn't influence price; it's correlated because price influences difficulty. There is not very much reason to expect a major price drop when ASICs are released.

Disclaimer: I run a competing pool, but I consider my argument above to be neutral to that fact.

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August 10, 2012, 12:58:08 AM
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I really hope this isnt the best things to come from coinlab using their investor money.


...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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August 10, 2012, 12:59:36 AM
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So I'd have to mine with you and give up my bonus-pool bonuses constantly for a full six months before getting any kind of fixed price?
Hmmmm.
There are downsides, but I'm still remotely interested - My break-even is at about $1/GH/day looking at electricity costs alone.

Will you be offering some way to mine at some set $ rate for miners who join after ASICs hit production? I could easily sign a contract of several months if the price was right.

Also, the $/GH rate will likely be irrelevant for many calculations (I'm presuming that much of what you do will have nothing to do with SHA256), so how will payouts be calculated in that case?

Also Luke - yes they're right on that point, but if they can find a market for the sort of distributed computing we've been doing for the past year or three then it's an interesting business. I still need some convincing that this'll be successful though, I have to say.
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August 10, 2012, 01:00:43 AM
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$2.50 USD per 24hours per 1ghash.


that's not even good... or am i missing something?
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August 10, 2012, 01:05:07 AM
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$2.50 USD per 24hours per 1ghash.


that's not even good... or am i missing something?

I think looking at the second graph 95% PPS is around $5 per day, is what i'm seeing. If i understand this correctly.

They are saying if the price drops below $2.50 they will still pay you @ $2.50
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August 10, 2012, 01:28:10 AM
 #10

This smells like a scam. Difficulty doesn't influence price; it's correlated because price influences difficulty. There is not very much reason to expect a major price drop when ASICs are released.

Disclaimer: I run a competing pool, but I consider my argument above to be neutral to that fact.
Sooo.... you've never heard about their VC funding? Did you read the part about other paying jobs running via a custom client? I'm sorry, but this shows you to be even more of a fool than usual, calling it a scam without the slightest whiff of proof or even a real reason.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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August 10, 2012, 01:31:41 AM
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Ohhh so you're mining for crap now and more or less paying for an insurance with your mining earnings?


I will take my losses when they come thank you very much Smiley

or maybe buy a gpu per week until that comes around and I won't even notice the difference Tongue
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August 10, 2012, 01:43:44 AM
 #12

Very good idea for a unique PPS pool/monetized distributed computation hybrid.

As regular reader of gpgpu.org, I've been waiting for something like to come along.  Can't bother doing it myself, so cheers to the LazyNet.

Bitcoin establishing a price floor for the market is an incredible catalyst for suchlike.

You're going to need lots of $$$ to be competitive in this space, doing Big Science and whatnot.  Are you talking to VCs yet?

I suggest starting by supporting a couple of well chosen proprietary products, such as Schrödinger Suite 2012.

http://www.schrodinger.com/news/63

Run it cheaper than EC2 and profit!

There's also plenty of open source platforms to host, like GROMACS and BLAST.

CloudBroker was moving towards creating an open market for this stuff, but seems to be down ATM.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XLHUSI0BwDUJ:www.cloudbroker.com/&hl=en&prmd=imvns&strip=1

Be careful.  I've seen many companies enter, fail, and leave this space.  But since Bitcoin, conditions seem ripe for revolution...


The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
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August 10, 2012, 01:49:12 AM
 #13

Are you talking to VCs yet?
How's life under a rock?  Cheesy

CoinLab gets $500,000 in VC for bitcoin-related gaming startup
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August 10, 2012, 02:02:38 AM
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Quote
We are in the business of building a a world-wide distributed computing service.

If this is true, stop piddling around with weird PPS+insurance schemes and get the client out ASAP.

You've got much bigger fish to fry than starting yet another pool.  Keep it (your business model) clean and simple, we have enough pools with strange Byzantine rules (cough, BonusPool, cough).  This thread is already getting filled with ZOMGPonziScam drama. 

To prove that you can scale, try competing with DeepBit and BTCGuild.  You don't want to be Gimmick Pool of the Week.

If I was an investor and saw you using my money for obscure rinky-dink ventures like this, I'd be hella pissed.   Wink

I admire your ambition and having Con aboard is an invaluable edge.  This is an emerging trillion dollar market, so go big or go home.


tl;dr  Love the main idea, can't wait for the client, not interested in the pool.  Refocus plz.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
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August 10, 2012, 02:10:18 AM
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Quote
We are in the business of building a a world-wide distributed computing service.

If this is true, stop piddling around with weird PPS+insurance schemes and get the client out ASAP.

You've got much bigger fish to fry than starting yet another pool.  Keep it (your business model) clean and simple, we have enough pools with strange Byzantine rules (cough, BonusPool, cough).  This thread is already getting filled with ZOMGPonziScam drama.  

To prove that you can scale, try competing with DeepBit and BTCGuild.  You don't want to be Gimmick Pool of the Week.

If I was an investor and saw you using my money for obscure rinky-dink ventures like this, I'd be hella pissed.   Wink

I admire your ambition and having Con aboard is an invaluable edge.  This is an emerging trillion dollar market, so go big or go home.


tl;dr  Love the main idea, can't wait for the client, not interested in the pool.  Refocus plz.


I agree, I should definitely not be giving added value to miners that isnt available to them from the other pools. Shame on me.

I would love to understand how you got to the byzantine part without thread crapping here so if you wish to elaborate on that feel free to pm or post in the bonuspool thread.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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August 10, 2012, 02:12:01 AM
 #16

This smells like a scam. Difficulty doesn't influence price; it's correlated because price influences difficulty. There is not very much reason to expect a major price drop when ASICs are released.

Disclaimer: I run a competing pool, but I consider my argument above to be neutral to that fact.
Sooo.... you've never heard about their VC funding? Did you read the part about other paying jobs running via a custom client? I'm sorry, but this shows you to be even more of a fool than usual, calling it a scam without the slightest whiff of proof or even a real reason.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they're using unfounded FUD to try to get miners to buy in.

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August 10, 2012, 02:19:27 AM
 #17


Hey as long as the music is good I'm happy!   Grin




The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
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August 10, 2012, 02:41:46 AM
 #18

I like this idea and would love to fire up my Nvidia cards. When the client is ready for Nvidia, I'm in!

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August 10, 2012, 07:11:03 PM
 #19

So I'd have to mine with you and give up my bonus-pool bonuses constantly for a full six months before getting any kind of fixed price?
Fixed prices will begin whenever the expected output of 24 hrs of 1GH/s drops below $2.5.   Each share you earn before then allows you to redeem one share at the price of $2.5 per 24hrs at 1GH/s.

Quote
Will you be offering some way to mine at some set $ rate for miners who join after ASICs hit production? I could easily sign a contract of several months if the price was right.

Once we have High Power Compute jobs online, we plan to offer a self-serve pool with BTC or USD payouts for contributing GPU compute to our cluster. Until we are at capacity, we plan to give miners who have been with us longest priority for getting into this program. The first miners to start in this program will be the first to have a chance to do more lucrative HPC work.

We don't plan to offer any programs that ensure a price floor for miners starting after expected earnings have dropped below our guaranteed price floor.

Quote
Also, the $/GH rate will likely be irrelevant for many calculations (I'm presuming that much of what you do will have nothing to do with SHA256), so how will payouts be calculated in that case?
Each compute job will return its own kind of work unit.  HPC work units will be calibrated to earn an equal or greater number of shares as would have been earned from bitcoin mining. 
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August 10, 2012, 07:40:58 PM
 #20

This smells like a scam. Difficulty doesn't influence price; it's correlated because price influences difficulty. There is not very much reason to expect a major price drop when ASICs are released.

Disclaimer: I run a competing pool, but I consider my argument above to be neutral to that fact.

I think you may have misunderstood our offer.  We are talking about the dollar value of a GH for a period of 24 hours.  If difficulty rises and it doesn't influence/cause a proportional increase in BTC/USD price, the dollar-denominated expected earnings of your GH will go down.  

We expect that ASICs will drastically raise difficulty, causing the amount of BTC earned by a GPU miner to drop.  If the price does not rise to follow the increase in difficulty, the dollar value of a GPU miners earnings will decrease significantly.
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