[ANN] CoinLab Protected Pool

[CoinLab]

Another thing which is not really clear to me: If doing HPC work and $/GH/s/day is below 2.5, will the HPC workunits be deducted from my loyalty points? Or do loyalty points only work together with bitcoin mining?

Loyalty Points will be redeemed any time you would have earned less that 2.5 $/GH/s/day from Bitcoin mining, and we are paying you at least 2.5 $/GH/s/day.

We may choose to overpay in some circumstances to incentivize certain behaviors: for example, high uptime or a bonus to all NVIDIA cards.  We don't want to be restricted in our ability to give bonuses (and you should want us to be able to overpay without restriction), so any price above the price floor that we pay when you would have earned less than the price floor counts as redeeming a loyalty point.

If no, at which point is the $/GH/s/day calculated in your current model? In the first step, when calculating the "base value" (this would mean your "earnings protection" will kick in as soon as possible) or in the last step, after adding all bonuses (HPC bonus, AMD/NV bonus)?

It's based on the "base value" you described.

Anytime the 100% PPS rate for Bitcoin mining is below $0.00012427 PPS, you'll redeem Loyalty Points and receive at least $0.00012427 PPS. Neither bonuses or fees are factored into this (we calculate at 100%, not 95%, and HPC or other bonuses do not factor in).

Oh, and another question: Will I always be mining bitcoins if there is no HPC work available? I don't know the market, but I could imagine a 5850/5870 (or think about cards like the 5770...) is unsuitable for most HPC tasks.

For the foreseeable future, yes. Our 'default' setting will always choose the work that earns our miners the most money, so if a 5850 is more valuable performing Bitcoin mining than HPC work, we'll have you mine Bitcoin. We will also have manual controls available for controlling which jobs you want your GPU to perform, if you want to manage this yourself.

[CoinLab]

Monday Payouts have been sent!

Also, a few web interface bugs are being fixed now.  (Weeks now display in order!  )

[GenTarkin]

Question for ya CL...
If BTC dropped below 2.5$/GH .. RIGHT NOW...
would you be willing to pay our garunteed rate at this point in time? Or .. how would that work..

If mining earnings drop below $2.5 / GH/s / day right now, you'll start redeeming Loyalty Points now, earning the price floor ($0.00012427 PPS), with whatever miner you choose.

Our custom client will be out in about two weeks, and once its released, we'll probably give a few week grace period before we'll require it to redeem Loyalty Points.

question about loyalty points:

When we do redeem the points, how many shares do we have to submit per day to equal 1gh?

20,116 diff 1 shares is the expected output of 1 GH/s for 24 hours.

Wait wait wait wait....whoa .. are you saying that when the custom client comes out. If the value of BTC doesnt even drop below 2.5$/GH...your gonna force us to use up all our loyalty points regardless?!?!?
THATS HORRIBLE!....
Please tell me Im misunderstanding...

[jjiimm_64]

Question for ya CL...
If BTC dropped below 2.5$/GH .. RIGHT NOW...
would you be willing to pay our garunteed rate at this point in time? Or .. how would that work..

If mining earnings drop below $2.5 / GH/s / day right now, you'll start redeeming Loyalty Points now, earning the price floor ($0.00012427 PPS), with whatever miner you choose.

Our custom client will be out in about two weeks, and once its released, we'll probably give a few week grace period before we'll require it to redeem Loyalty Points.

question about loyalty points:

When we do redeem the points, how many shares do we have to submit per day to equal 1gh?

20,116 diff 1 shares is the expected output of 1 GH/s for 24 hours.

Wait wait wait wait....whoa .. are you saying that when the custom client comes out. If the value of BTC doesnt even drop below 2.5$/GH...your gonna force us to use up all our loyalty points regardless?!?!?
THATS HORRIBLE!....
Please tell me Im misunderstanding...

your misunderstanding....  please take off the tinfoil hat

[GenTarkin]

well please explain..

[ShadesOfMarble]

@CoinLab: Thanks (again) for the clarification.

Then I have just a feature request: Please include an API in your custom client. I'm doing everything via APIs (controlling miners, controlling pools...) so it would be great if I could do the same thing with your custom client I think I'm not the only one doing this.

[regular]

any beta clients soon for us to test the future Coinlab software?

[jjiimm_64]

@CoinLab: Thanks (again) for the clarification.

Then I have just a feature request: Please include an API in your custom client. I'm doing everything via APIs (controlling miners, controlling pools...) so it would be great if I could do the same thing with your custom client I think I'm not the only one doing this.

custom client is based on cgminer...  has an api

[jamesg]

@CoinLab: Thanks (again) for the clarification.

Then I have just a feature request: Please include an API in your custom client. I'm doing everything via APIs (controlling miners, controlling pools...) so it would be great if I could do the same thing with your custom client I think I'm not the only one doing this.

custom client is based on cgminer...  has an api

Hi Coinlab,

Can you please confirm this?

Thanks,
gigavps

[imsaguy]

@CoinLab: Thanks (again) for the clarification.

Then I have just a feature request: Please include an API in your custom client. I'm doing everything via APIs (controlling miners, controlling pools...) so it would be great if I could do the same thing with your custom client I think I'm not the only one doing this.

custom client is based on cgminer...  has an api

Hi Coinlab,

Can you please confirm this?

Thanks,
gigavps

Ask Con

[GenTarkin]

according to con as of a month or so ago, I talked w/ him in irc about the client. He said its NOT based on cgminer at all.
So, unless thats changed, we can plan on a different animal all together.

[jjiimm_64]

according to con as of a month or so ago, I talked w/ him in irc about the client. He said its NOT based on cgminer at all.
So, unless thats changed, we can plan on a different animal all together.

OUCH, that is what i get for assuming.

which if true..REALLY SUCKS.

It is imperative to have an api access to monitor temps, change clocks, change pools, etc etc etc.

edit:
change volts, change mem, change intensity......  I was really counting on using my current controlling program to maintain the rigs.

edit2:

Con has almost 2 years of work in cgminer that delivers work to gpus in a multi-threaded manner with support for many types of cards. Why would that have to be redone? that does not make sense, especially since the the current  cgminer can use different 'kernels'.  wouldn't it make sense to just leverage something like 'hpc kernal'

[CoinLab]

Wait wait wait wait....whoa .. are you saying that when the custom client comes out. If the value of BTC doesnt even drop below 2.5$/GH...your gonna force us to use up all our loyalty points regardless?!?!?
THATS HORRIBLE!....
Please tell me Im misunderstanding...

You're misunderstanding.

As long as you can mine BTC at a rate above the price floor, you'll continue to earn Loyalty Points.

Loyalty Points will only be redeemed if the BTC mining earning rate is below the price floor.

The Custom Client is required to redeem Loyalty points, but running it will only redeem Loyalty Points if the BTC mining rate is below the price floor.

[CoinLab]

@CoinLab: Thanks (again) for the clarification.

Then I have just a feature request: Please include an API in your custom client. I'm doing everything via APIs (controlling miners, controlling pools...) so it would be great if I could do the same thing with your custom client I think I'm not the only one doing this.

I'll get back to you on this, but if it's a priority for our miners, we'll make it a priority.

EDIT:  Our CTO has confirmed our custom client will have an API.

[jjiimm_64]

@CoinLab: Thanks (again) for the clarification.

Then I have just a feature request: Please include an API in your custom client. I'm doing everything via APIs (controlling miners, controlling pools...) so it would be great if I could do the same thing with your custom client I think I'm not the only one doing this.

I'll get back to you on this, but if it's a priority for our miners, we'll make it a priority.

EDIT:  Our CTO has confirmed our custom client will have an API.

Thanks,
  can you confirm that the custom client will be able to do the following

change volts
change clocks
change mem
change pool
change fan
disable
enable

also monitor all of the above. including hashrate, shares/m, etc etc..

[vess]

Hi all,

I understand the API control is important to you. I think we can commit to having this sort of control in a v1 release, although maybe not in the beta. We have generally planned on having a bit more intelligence baked in to the custom client, and less in Con's core, but what you want matters, for sure.

One thing to note, though, is that this is all bitcoin stuff, there's also the computational market side of control, like how we (and you) will decide to switch over to work that pays differently than bitcoin. I'm more focused on getting this side of it right than fan control right now, because I think the final margins will be bigger.

We're about to get started with a university program that's going to be tapping the GPUs for some large-scale distributed work, so I'd guess in the next eight weeks or so, some of these non-Bitcoin work questions are going to get real. We're shooting to have the alpha/beta client out and to you all for testing before that happens, so that we can make sure mining is working properly first.

Anyway, just to say "I hear you!" and we'll keep you posted on the exact specs. There's no reason internally to not give you sophisticated users the ability to tweak out your setups.

[ShadesOfMarble]

No, an API should be included from the beginning. Why? I use the API to monitor all my GPUs. This way I can make sure I get notified (via e-mail) of a GPU that begins to behave strange, e.g. fan percent going up but fan rpm going down - indicating a failing fan.

If I don't notice a failing fan my hardware may get killed. I don't want that

[imsaguy]

Hi all,

I understand the API control is important to you. I think we can commit to having this sort of control in a v1 release, although maybe not in the beta. We have generally planned on having a bit more intelligence baked in to the custom client, and less in Con's core, but what you want matters, for sure.

One thing to note, though, is that this is all bitcoin stuff, there's also the computational market side of control, like how we (and you) will decide to switch over to work that pays differently than bitcoin. I'm more focused on getting this side of it right than fan control right now, because I think the final margins will be bigger.

We're about to get started with a university program that's going to be tapping the GPUs for some large-scale distributed work, so I'd guess in the next eight weeks or so, some of these non-Bitcoin work questions are going to get real. We're shooting to have the alpha/beta client out and to you all for testing before that happens, so that we can make sure mining is working properly first.

Anyway, just to say "I hear you!" and we'll keep you posted on the exact specs. There's no reason internally to not give you sophisticated users the ability to tweak out your setups.

That's just it..  The 'intelligence' to be able to monitor the setup and make sure nothing's overheating is very much core to the larger setups.  We don't have the luxury of just setting a default settings because it means either 1) You're not pushing the envelope at all and only getting mediocre results or 2) You're losing cards because you have no way to know that a fan is going out.  This hardware is expensive so finding that line as to card performance is every bit as important as finding the job that pays the best.

[jamesg]

Hi all,

I understand the API control is important to you. I think we can commit to having this sort of control in a v1 release, although maybe not in the beta. We have generally planned on having a bit more intelligence baked in to the custom client, and less in Con's core, but what you want matters, for sure.

One thing to note, though, is that this is all bitcoin stuff, there's also the computational market side of control, like how we (and you) will decide to switch over to work that pays differently than bitcoin. I'm more focused on getting this side of it right than fan control right now, because I think the final margins will be bigger.

We're about to get started with a university program that's going to be tapping the GPUs for some large-scale distributed work, so I'd guess in the next eight weeks or so, some of these non-Bitcoin work questions are going to get real. We're shooting to have the alpha/beta client out and to you all for testing before that happens, so that we can make sure mining is working properly first.

Anyway, just to say "I hear you!" and we'll keep you posted on the exact specs. There's no reason internally to not give you sophisticated users the ability to tweak out your setups.

Hi vess,

If you have not already, I would recommend you retain a mining "expert" to help make sure your client is as good as it can be. I would without hesitation recommend both sunbreak, imsaguy and jjiimm_64 as they are very skilled at running large GPU mining clusters.

Best,
gigavps

[jjiimm_64]

Hi all,

I understand the API control is important to you. I think we can commit to having this sort of control in a v1 release, although maybe not in the beta. We have generally planned on having a bit more intelligence baked in to the custom client, and less in Con's core, but what you want matters, for sure.

One thing to note, though, is that this is all bitcoin stuff, there's also the computational market side of control, like how we (and you) will decide to switch over to work that pays differently than bitcoin. I'm more focused on getting this side of it right than fan control right now, because I think the final margins will be bigger.

We're about to get started with a university program that's going to be tapping the GPUs for some large-scale distributed work, so I'd guess in the next eight weeks or so, some of these non-Bitcoin work questions are going to get real. We're shooting to have the alpha/beta client out and to you all for testing before that happens, so that we can make sure mining is working properly first.

Anyway, just to say "I hear you!" and we'll keep you posted on the exact specs. There's no reason internally to not give you sophisticated users the ability to tweak out your setups.

As imsaguy just referenced, it wont help to have expensive work if we just burnt up our cards.

I cannot dont want to even test a miner if i cannot change volts and clocks and mem. None of us run the cards at stock volts, and I am not going to flash 125 gpus every time i want to change configuration.

bitcoin work does not need memory, but the hpc work may need more memory to be proficient.  but we need control over the memory, we cannot have the client changing those params on its own.

.......
edit. dumb questins.
what kind of testing have you guys done? can we get a screen shot?

Not dumb questions.  
Can i assume this will not be open source? will you provide binaries for all the following?  (about 2/3 of my rigs are the old linuxcoin)
Will this client run on linuxcoin? ubuntu? debian? windows?