[ANN] CoinLab Protected Pool

[monstrs]

Will i be able to use those loyality points mining, or doing HPC work, or that HPC will be compleately independent?

[jjiimm_64]

CoinLab, could you check on my account and see about getting a payment sent out? Same username as I am here.
 
Thanks

bump this and proceed with discussion

Did you have at least 1.0 btc mined by Saturday evening?

[CoinLab]

CoinLab, could you check on my account and see about getting a payment sent out? Same username as I am here.
 
Thanks

bump this and proceed with discussion

PMd

[CoinLab]

jjimm_64 this has nothing to do w/ your own profitability past the reward halving (at least when it comes to power consumption) It clearly is said 2.50$/gh/day .. PERIOD.
Another point is, what if BTC price doubles .. and actually stays above the 2.50$/gh/day when the reward halving comes... highly doubt that would be the case, but lets just say...
That would give us potentially a few more weeks till asic changes that.

So, if the above were to happen... that gives another month of my GPU's making loyalty points.

So, therein again, coinlab would be going back on their word they very clearly stated at the start of this thread =(

It really sucks..cuz that would mean another month of income into the ASIC era. Lets say CL takes longer than expected landing these HPC jobs...and we end up running out of loyalty points till they deliver on HPC..well thats a huge problem for people that were depending on them to deliver. Rather than going back on their word.
Actually thats a sign this was all a hoax to begin with.. =(

We have always reserved the right to stop issuing new LPs at any time, and we're sorry it if this was not clear.

We view giving out Loyalty Points as a continuing offer which we have the right to stop offering at any time.  Of course, we view already-earned Loyalty Points as an obligation to you and if we ever wiped your points off your account (without good cause, like you trying to hack our site for your financial benefit or defraud us), I agree that would be "going back on [our] word".

By not giving out Loyalty Points, we aren't hurting you in any way.  Miners have been given consideration as per the terms for every one of their shares they have submitted (earnings+LPs).  We have never guaranteed that miners will be able to earn Loyalty Points into the future.  Our explanation of how points are earned should not be misconstrued as a promise that you'll always be able to earn them.

The reason we may need to stop issuing Loyalty Points is technical: we don't have much time before the reward drop, and we need to get LP redemption working and tested by next Thursday, when the reward drop is expected.  We are strapped for dev time, so we only want to implement and test LP redemption.  We are too busy to build a system that dynamically allows earning of further LPs, and we'd rather spend that time getting our HPC client released and HPC jobs online.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.  If the reward drop doesn't put us below the price floor (huge price spike?), we may issue more LPs.  However, we feel that it is highly likely that we'll cross the threshold next Thursday, and we need to have the tech in place to let you start redeeming immediately.

We're meeting this afternoon to finalize our plans for LP redemption, and I'll post our plan after.

[stoppots]

CoinLab, could you check on my account and see about getting a payment sent out? Same username as I am here.
 
Thanks

bump this and proceed with discussion

PMd

I somehow overlooked it. Received and in my wallet even before I made the initial post.

Sorry for wasting your time and for also being a dumbass.

[GenTarkin]

Will i be able to use those loyality points mining, or doing HPC work, or that HPC will be compleately independent?

As far as Ive understood, they are completely independent.

[GenTarkin]

jjimm_64 this has nothing to do w/ your own profitability past the reward halving (at least when it comes to power consumption) It clearly is said 2.50$/gh/day .. PERIOD.
Another point is, what if BTC price doubles .. and actually stays above the 2.50$/gh/day when the reward halving comes... highly doubt that would be the case, but lets just say...
That would give us potentially a few more weeks till asic changes that.

So, if the above were to happen... that gives another month of my GPU's making loyalty points.

So, therein again, coinlab would be going back on their word they very clearly stated at the start of this thread =(

It really sucks..cuz that would mean another month of income into the ASIC era. Lets say CL takes longer than expected landing these HPC jobs...and we end up running out of loyalty points till they deliver on HPC..well thats a huge problem for people that were depending on them to deliver. Rather than going back on their word.
Actually thats a sign this was all a hoax to begin with.. =(

We have always reserved the right to stop issuing new LPs at any time, and we're sorry it if this was not clear.

We view giving out Loyalty Points as a continuing offer which we have the right to stop offering at any time.  Of course, we view already-earned Loyalty Points as an obligation to you and if we ever wiped your points off your account (without good cause, like you trying to hack our site for your financial benefit or defraud us), I agree that would be "going back on [our] word".

By not giving out Loyalty Points, we aren't hurting you in any way.  Miners have been given consideration as per the terms for every one of their shares they have submitted (earnings+LPs).  We have never guaranteed that miners will be able to earn Loyalty Points into the future.  Our explanation of how points are earned should not be misconstrued as a promise that you'll always be able to earn them.

The reason we may need to stop issuing Loyalty Points is technical: we don't have much time before the reward drop, and we need to get LP redemption working and tested by next Thursday, when the reward drop is expected.  We are strapped for dev time, so we only want to implement and test LP redemption.  We are too busy to build a system that dynamically allows earning of further LPs, and we'd rather spend that time getting our HPC client released and HPC jobs online.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.  If the reward drop doesn't put us below the price floor (huge price spike?), we may issue more LPs.  However, we feel that it is highly likely that we'll cross the threshold next Thursday, and we need to have the tech in place to let you start redeeming immediately.

We're meeting this afternoon to finalize our plans for LP redemption, and I'll post our plan after.

Thanks for the explanation and if its being done for a good reason, then theres no problem. In this case youve stated it will be for implimenting the redemption system which is a good enough reason for me. The fact you also said will reconsider allowing LP to be made if the reward halving does not cause it to go below the stated floor, then thats good as well. =)
Although, it does bug me when a company hides behind their 'we reserve the right to .. ' =/
Either way... thanks for the clarification =)

[CoinLab]

Our redemption plan is almost finished.   However, we realized that it requires us to take on a bit of exchange risk, so I need final approval from our CFO before I can publish.  Will shoot for tomorrow ~noonish.

Sorry for the delay!  I'll post the plan as soon as I can.

[meebs]

I am still kind of curious what kind of HPC work it will be (scientific, economic modeling etc) and what the typical payout will be for a "1gh/s" equivilent of computing power for non-bitcoin work.

That said.. I am glad a company like this has come along to essentially provide supercomuter power on a decentralized basis.

[monstrs]

I am still kind of curious what kind of HPC work it will be (scientific, economic modeling etc) and what the typical payout will be for a "1gh/s" equivilent of computing power for non-bitcoin work.

That said.. I am glad a company like this has come along to essentially provide supercomuter power on a decentralized basis.

Would also want to know abot this. Will it be better to do HPC work if i already have loyality points, or will it be better for me to swith to HPC ASAP ?

[AmDD]

I am still kind of curious what kind of HPC work it will be (scientific, economic modeling etc) and what the typical payout will be for a "1gh/s" equivilent of computing power for non-bitcoin work.

That said.. I am glad a company like this has come along to essentially provide supercomuter power on a decentralized basis.

Would also want to know abot this. Will it be better to do HPC work if i already have loyality points, or will it be better for me to swith to HPC ASAP ?

The way I understand it is HPC will pay more than what we could earn mining bitcoins for the same amount of time. For the times when there is no HPC work todo we will mine bitcoins and this is where I see the loyalty points coming into play.

[GenTarkin]

I am still kind of curious what kind of HPC work it will be (scientific, economic modeling etc) and what the typical payout will be for a "1gh/s" equivilent of computing power for non-bitcoin work.

That said.. I am glad a company like this has come along to essentially provide supercomuter power on a decentralized basis.

Would also want to know abot this. Will it be better to do HPC work if i already have loyality points, or will it be better for me to swith to HPC ASAP ?

The way I understand it is HPC will pay more than what we could earn mining bitcoins for the same amount of time. For the times when there is no HPC work todo we will mine bitcoins and this is where I see the loyalty points coming into play.

That would be nice, and I also hope this is true of ATi GPU's =P

[AmDD]

I am still kind of curious what kind of HPC work it will be (scientific, economic modeling etc) and what the typical payout will be for a "1gh/s" equivilent of computing power for non-bitcoin work.

That said.. I am glad a company like this has come along to essentially provide supercomuter power on a decentralized basis.

Would also want to know abot this. Will it be better to do HPC work if i already have loyality points, or will it be better for me to swith to HPC ASAP ?

The way I understand it is HPC will pay more than what we could earn mining bitcoins for the same amount of time. For the times when there is no HPC work todo we will mine bitcoins and this is where I see the loyalty points coming into play.

That would be nice, and I also hope this is true of ATi GPU's =P

Me too, I have 7 ATI GPUs ready and waiting. I dont want to replace them with Nvidia if I can help it.

[jjshabadoo]

ATI gpu's will be fine, nvidia will just be more efficient, but we're not talking the difference between ati and nvidia for bitcoin mining I don't believe.

The real money for HPC will be in the 6 series nvidia cards because of their low power consumption.

I could see a reasonable plan would be to see what happens with HPC and as it takes off, slowly start replacing your ati cards with nvidia cards. Especially once ASIC's hit since those ati cards are no longer useful.

I would then assume you can redeem your loyalty points in between HPC jobs even with your nvidia cards.

The catch will be how nvidia cards are calculated performance wise when it comes to redeeming loyalty points. If it's based on standard bitcoin hashing power, then you'll need to keep those ati cards around until your loyalty points are exhausted.

Coinlab has said they might use a different formula to calculate nvidia cards hashing power(in bitcoin mining terms) as a way to incentivize people to cross over to nvidia cards over time.

[ShadesOfMarble]

The catch will be how nvidia cards are calculated performance wise when it comes to redeeming loyalty points. If it's based on standard bitcoin hashing power, then you'll need to keep those ati cards around until your loyalty points are exhausted.

I asked this a while ago. It's just not "fair" to compare the 150 MH/s of a 580GTX to the 400 MH/s of a 5870.

[CoinLab]

Loyalty Point Redemption Plan

First of all, we've designed this plan to minimize the amount of developer time needed, so we can focus these resources on HPC. This isn't our ideal system, but we've chosen this in order to get our HPC client out and HPC work online as fast as possible. 

- Midnight Sunday morning, UTC-time we'll stop issuing new loyalty points on the "protected" pool.  We will take a snapshot of the database at this time and use it to determine how many loyalty points each miner has earned.

- We will be creating a new pool for you to redeem your loyalty points on called "redeem".

- You will be able to see how many Loyalty Points you have on the web stats interface for the "redeem" pool.  We plan on getting this online before the reward halving (Mon or Tues of next week) so everyone will be able to know with certainty how many LPs they have earned.

- Shares earned at this pool will be paid at the price floor rate of $0.00012427 PPS (note this is in USD, not BTC), as long as you have remaining loyalty points.  Your balance will be denominated in USD not BTC.

- If you have used up all of your loyalty points, the web interface will display an incorrect balance for your account!  Please stop mining on "redeem" when your loyalty points have been exhausted, it will be ugly for our accounting and we do not promise payment of these excess shares. We intend to credit these shares using an estimate of their value at 95% PPS, but these will not necessarily be credited by the following Monday. In this situation, we have sole discretion of how to estimate the earnings on these shares.  Please do you best to stop mining on "redeem" as soon as you've exhausted your Loyalty Points.

- We will use an impartial method of determining a BTCUSD exchange rate.  Initially, we will use the daily weighted price of MtGoxUSD using the data reported by bitcoincharts.com.  If we find a better source of data or believe that bitcoincharts's data is no longer accurate, we will find another data source for the exchange rate and notify our miners of this change through the forums. Choice of impartial price source is at our discretion. (Currently we'll be using the most recent "Weighted Price" on http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD.  Click "Load raw data" at the bottom of this page to see the value for Weighted Price).

- Payouts will occur automatically every Monday for all accounts with a balance of at least 1 BTC (at current exchange rate). User balances will be converted from USD to BTC at time of payout using the exchange rate described above. Users may request a special payout mid-week, and we'll use the same method of determining the exchange rate for conversion.

- Miners may put a payment hold on their account at their discretion, which will prevent them from receiving automatic payouts.  These miners can request special payouts or ask for us to remove the hold at a later date.

Note:
- The 97% bonus will only be applied to "protected" mining.  "redeem" pool shares will not be counted towards the 1.125M shares needed to get the 97% bonus, and redeem earnings will not receive this bonus.

[CoinLab]

The catch will be how nvidia cards are calculated performance wise when it comes to redeeming loyalty points. If it's based on standard bitcoin hashing power, then you'll need to keep those ati cards around until your loyalty points are exhausted.

I asked this a while ago. It's just not "fair" to compare the 150 MH/s of a 580GTX to the 400 MH/s of a 5870.

I agree - our current system means that it is more efficient to redeem loyalty points with AMDs than NVIDIAs.

Once we have work units online that can be performed more efficiently with NVIDIAs than AMDs, we'll reevaluate methods of adding additional incentive for miners to get NVIDIAs on our cluster.

[CoinLab]

I am still kind of curious what kind of HPC work it will be (scientific, economic modeling etc) and what the typical payout will be for a "1gh/s" equivilent of computing power for non-bitcoin work.

That said.. I am glad a company like this has come along to essentially provide supercomuter power on a decentralized basis.

Our first work unit online will be performing computations related to Gene Sequencing.  I've asked the customer for more information about what the dataset is, what calculations are performed, what the output represents, etc.  I'll post more info about this as it comes in.

We also have a deal coming together related to Image Processing and Video Encoding, but it is too early to say anything more than this now.

[iCEBREAKER]

Our first work unit online will be performing computations related to Gene Sequencing. 
We also have a deal coming together related to Image Processing and Video Encoding, but it is too early to say anything more than this now.

Very cool!

Are the PPS Bonuses coming back anytime soon?  It's been a week since the last one AFAIK.

[CoinLab]

We've temporarily stopped PPS bonuses because our accounting is already going to be challenging with the Loyalty Point bonuses. We'll look at using these again once things calm down again.

In other good news, our HPC client is getting really close!  Our devs are working late tonight and we think we'll have our first stable build tonight. If all goes well, after a bit of internal testing, we're optimistic we'll be able to release the first version to you next week.