Alternatives to the new OzCoin 3% DGM Fee

[evanesce]

[Edit: I've edited this post to allow this thread to become a little more to the point I was originally trying to make]

I have recently become aware that OzCoin will start to charge a 3% DGM Fee.  While OzCoin is free to do anything they like, I wanted to suggest another mining pool that also offers DGM while they are still in the "donation stages". 

I personally felt I was bait and switched over at Oz, and while the merits of my reasoning are up for discussion, still that's how I felt.

Here's my recommended alternative to OzCoin DGM: https://eclipsemc.com

0% DGM fees there, let's bring their hashrate up...  https://eclipsemc.com/graphs/rate_last_hour.php

And please, please throw them a bone and donate a little, so they don't end up like OzCoin!

[1714064631]

1714064631

[1714064631]

1714064631

[1714064631]

1714064631

[1714064631]

1714064631

[1714064631]

1714064631

[roomservice]

You should use the existing thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99300.0

Did you ever compared DGM parameters set on ozcoin and other dgm pools? Then you would realize that you compared apples to oranges.

3% fee is more than reasonable for a pool with such an server infrastructure and the fact DGM on ozcoin parameters decrease miners variance (which can be considered as a financial risk for the pool operator).

[Graet]

wow
Ozcoin miners know - we sent email today
people that read the forum have had warning for days

I wont repeat myself again, just finished
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14085.msg1093306#msg1093306

hope you find a good pool

[evanesce]

Did you ever compared DGM parameters set on ozcoin and other dgm pools? Then you would realize that you compared apples to oranges.

I disagree about comparing apples to oranges.  It's more like granny smith apples to red delicious apples.  

For all intents and purposes the DGM parameter difference is minimal and does not offset a 3% fee that was recently introduced.

[Graet]

yet you came into IRC and said 2.5% was acceptable but 3% is a bait and switch tactic

actually I'm finding this rather amusing, in our time we haven't had one of these threads
I guess we have reached the bigtime, our first DDOS and our first fud forum thread all in the same week

you know if I wanted to be dodgy I would have charged a fee and then told miners, or one of many other things.

Do go on, I'll have a sleep and come back for a laugh in the morning
Thanks
Graeme

[evanesce]

2.5% would have still been a bait and switch tactic, but it would have been one I would have personally accepted.

[Graet]

2.5% would have still been a bait and switch tactic, but it would have been one I would have personally accepted.

lol

[evanesce]

2.5% would have still been a bait and switch tactic, but it would have been one I would have personally accepted.

lol

I came up with that number so that ozcoin would have sustained a competitive advantage to the other major pools out there charging an average of 3% as I see it.  Obviously you don't agree, so why not move along yourself?

[Clipse]

Well obviously Graet is terrible at bait and switch tactics considering it took him over a year to work out this long con. 

[evanesce]

Well obviously Graet is terrible at bait and switch tactics considering it took him over a year to work out this long con. 

A year at 0% fees is a great way to build up the nice hashrate Graet enjoys today to get his hefty sized 3% in upcoming fees, this way he can literally feed off the lazy people that don't bother to switch pools once this happens.

This happens all the time though, 0% interest first year on credit cards, then jack up to 21% with a 50$ annual fee, just one example....  How about google voice, free calls till "who knows when"... then what will the fees be?

[Clipse]

Well obviously Graet is terrible at bait and switch tactics considering it took him over a year to work out this long con.  

A year at 0% fees is a great way to build up the nice hashrate Graet enjoys today to get his hefty sized 3% in upcoming fees, this way he can literally feed off the lazy people that don't bother to switch pools once this happens.

This happens all the time though, 0% interest first year on credit cards, then jack up to 21% with a 50$ annual fee, just one example....  How about google voice, free calls till "who knows when"... then what will the fees be?

Ok let me try again since sarcasm clearly doesnt reflect well on here.

Ozcoin ran at a low hashrate at 0% fee since only a month or two ago, they kept paying over and over out of their own pockets and with few recent double payouts they also did the same.

Now do you think they deserve to get paid for their work ? That is totally up to you to decide however claiming they are out of deliberately cheat you out of bitcoins and thus trying to tar them as scum is just psychotic and void of any reasoning.

Please provide different examples, creditcard rates and google products have nothing to do with the pool service and you know it.

[evanesce]

Ok let me try again since sarcasm clearly doesnt reflect well on here.

Ozcoin ran at a low hashrate at 0% fee since only a month or two ago, they kept paying over and over out of their own pockets and with few recent double payouts they also did the same.

Now do you think they deserve to get paid for their work ? That is totally up to you to decide however claiming they are out of deliberately cheat you out of bitcoins and thus trying to tar them as scum is just psychotic and void of any reasoning.

Please provide different examples, creditcard rates and google products have nothing to do with the pool service and you know it.

Excellent post.  Thank you for helping me to understand.  

Given your post, the only point I have left to make... is that me, myself, personally... don't feel the 3% fee is justified, seeing as I recall someone saying they only needed about 1.5% (reference needed, i'm researching) to break even, when they were pointing out that donations were only averaging 0.6% or something (again, reference needed, i'll look around.. all I know is it was well under 3%).

All in all, Ozcoin is welcome to do whatever they wish, it's a free world, or so I hope.. lol

Edit: http://www.ozcoin.net/content/covering-costs has the statistics I was looking for:

Currently we are running at ~0.8% "donations", to cover running costs this needs to be closer to 1.5%. (~$600AUD or 120BTC per month)

[crazyates]

A year at 0% fees is a great way to build up the nice hashrate Graet enjoys today to get his hefty sized 3% in upcoming fees, this way he can literally feed off the lazy people that don't bother to switch pools once this happens.

Yes, because all of us that continue to mine at ozco.in are just too ignorant to get off our lazy asses and switch pools because you tell us to.

Given your post, the only point I have left to make... is that me, myself, personally... don't feel the 3% fee is justified, seeing as I recall someone saying they only needed about 1.5% (reference needed, i'm researching) to break even, when they were pointing out that donations were only averaging 0.6% or something (again, reference needed, i'll look around.. all I know is it was well under 3%).

All in all, Ozcoin is welcome to do whatever they wish, it's a free world, or so I hope.. lol

Edit: http://www.ozcoin.net/content/covering-costs has the statistics I was looking for:

Currently we are running at ~0.8% "donations", to cover running costs this needs to be closer to 1.5%. (~$600AUD or 120BTC per month)

I don't see how being one of the best pools around isn't enough to warrant a 3% fee that not only covers the 1.5% running costs, but also extra costs for future developments.

[evanesce]

I don't see how being one of the best pools around isn't enough to warrant a 3% fee that not only covers the 1.5% running costs, but also extra costs for future developments.

That is frankly your opinion that it is one of the best pools around.  So for you, it flies.. That's good, however not the case with me.  And the other comment above?  I wasn't telling anyone anything, merely a suggestion

[wknight]

I personally felt I was bait and switched over at Oz, and while the merits of my reasoning are up for discussion, still that's how I felt.

I am very sorry that you feel the services OZCOIN is not worth 3%. We all wish you luck in the future on finding a pool you will be happy with.

However, insulting one of the most honest people that runs a pool (Graet) isnt the smartest thing to do. In fact he has paid out of his own pocket when its come to extra payouts because of database screw ups. Hell did you know that OZCOIN just paid out double on multiple blocks recently? Who eats this? Graet.

Ohh did you know that OZCOIN was hacked one time and lost all the coins in the wallet? Graet took it out of his own pocket to make sure people got paid. However, the community even donated to the pool to help offset the loss.

Its a lot of work to keep this pool going. Making sure things get fixed so it does'nt happen again. Graet has always looked out for everyone in the Bitcoin community even if they dont mine on his pool.

So before you start slinging false information and talk shit about how Graet is now moving over to a fee base to keep the pool open. Look at yourself and ask. "What have I done for bitcoin lately".

[evanesce]

I personally felt I was bait and switched over at Oz, and while the merits of my reasoning are up for discussion, still that's how I felt.

I am very sorry that you feel the services OZCOIN is not worth 3%. We all wish you luck in the future on finding a pool you will be happy with.

However, insulting one of the most honest people that runs a pool (Graet) isnt the smartest thing to do. In fact he has paid out of his own pocket when its come to extra payouts because of database screw ups. Hell did you know that OZCOIN just paid out double on multiple blocks recently? Who eats this? Graet.

Ohh did you know that OZCOIN was hacked one time and lost all the coins in the wallet? Graet took it out of his own pocket to make sure people got paid. However, the community even donated to the pool to help offset the loss.

Its a lot of work to keep this pool going. Making sure things get fixed so it does'nt happen again. Graet has always looked out for everyone in the Bitcoin community even if they dont mine on his pool.

So before you start slinging false information and talk shit about how Graet is now moving over to a fee base to keep the pool open. Look at yourself and ask. "What have I done for bitcoin lately".

I appreciate your post, and for sharing your knowledge of the situation. 

It's possible that just maybe my ways of thinking and views in general are different from the norm more than I had anticipated, but I feel it's appropriate to at least voice my opinion about the whole subject and get some nice intelligent responses in return (most of them were nice anyways heh).

Graet, I mean no disrespect to what you have done for the coin community, and I apologize if anything was taken that way.  I still strongly disagree with the 3% increase, though it appears that I may be the only one to date

[Littleshop]

I personally felt I was bait and switched over at Oz, and while the merits of my reasoning are up for discussion, still that's how I felt.

I am very sorry that you feel the services OZCOIN is not worth 3%. We all wish you luck in the future on finding a pool you will be happy with.

However, insulting one of the most honest people that runs a pool (Graet) isnt the smartest thing to do. In fact he has paid out of his own pocket when its come to extra payouts because of database screw ups. Hell did you know that OZCOIN just paid out double on multiple blocks recently? Who eats this? Graet.

Ohh did you know that OZCOIN was hacked one time and lost all the coins in the wallet? Graet took it out of his own pocket to make sure people got paid. However, the community even donated to the pool to help offset the loss.

Its a lot of work to keep this pool going. Making sure things get fixed so it does'nt happen again. Graet has always looked out for everyone in the Bitcoin community even if they dont mine on his pool.

So before you start slinging false information and talk shit about how Graet is now moving over to a fee base to keep the pool open. Look at yourself and ask. "What have I done for bitcoin lately".

I appreciate your post, and for sharing your knowledge of the situation. 

It's possible that just maybe my ways of thinking and views in general are different from the norm more than I had anticipated, but I feel it's appropriate to at least voice my opinion about the whole subject and get some nice intelligent responses in return (most of them were nice anyways heh).

Graet, I mean no disrespect to what you have done for the coin community, and I apologize if anything was taken that way.  I still strongly disagree with the 3% increase, though it appears that I may be the only one to date

I can understand that a fee increase hurts but it seems to be within reason.  If he had no fee then went (suddenly) to a 5% or 10% fee without warning it would feel like a bait and switch.   3% with notice is not unfair. 

[imsaguy]

Well obviously Graet is terrible at bait and switch tactics considering it took him over a year to work out this long con. 

Clearly Oz is a ponzi.

[mdude77]

I appreciate your post, and for sharing your knowledge of the situation. 

It's possible that just maybe my ways of thinking and views in general are different from the norm more than I had anticipated, but I feel it's appropriate to at least voice my opinion about the whole subject and get some nice intelligent responses in return (most of them were nice anyways heh).

Graet, I mean no disrespect to what you have done for the coin community, and I apologize if anything was taken that way.  I still strongly disagree with the 3% increase, though it appears that I may be the only one to date

I can't see how anyone could be expected to run a 0% pool.  There's no such thing as a free lunch, the money HAS to come from somewhere.  You've got some nerve to refer the miners there as lazy that won't switch when you expect it to stay free.  As of right now, the average user there has 3.4g/h.  That hash power isn't free, and I doubt any of them appreciate you referring to them as lazy.  I'm sure they know what they are doing.

You're free to go where ever you want.  I personally am on p2poolright now  because I like the concept, and recently it's been coming ahead of 0% pools, let alone the 3% or 5% pools.  But ozcoin is my backup, and if p2pool goes south, I'll be back even with 3%.  3% is more than fair IMHO, and anyone who expects it be free needs to examine themselves and consider where their greedy selfish motives are coming from.

M

P.S.  I was on BTCGuild when they were free.   Then they changed to 5%.  They are STILL one of the biggest pools out there, ahead of Ozcoin.  These miners, myself included, know what we're doing, contrary to your opinion.

[evanesce]

I can't see how anyone could be expected to run a 0% pool.  There's no such thing as a free lunch, the money HAS to come from somewhere.  You've got some nerve to refer the miners there as lazy that won't switch when you expect it to stay free.  As of right now, the average user there has 3.4g/h.  That hash power isn't free, and I doubt any of them appreciate you referring to them as lazy.  I'm sure they know what they are doing.

My Apologies for labeling some miners "lazy".  Obviously we're a much smarter bunch than the average consumer.  However, I'm starting to run out of apologies heh...  

I do like how passionate we all are about this currency.  Positive or negative, this sort of passion should fuel this economy for years to come.