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The Quran (Koran, the book of Islam) contains scientific knowledge that could not have been known 1400 years ago. It ranges from basic arithmetics to the most advanced topics in in all the Field of this world. You are invited to go through those miracles. Every Day I will post One miracle of Quran.

Lots Of things That Were Discovered Now, and Few year Back, Was Everything Written In the the Quran 1400 year Ago. It is Only the Thing You should Look into the things Why it is created and what is its purpose.

The Qur'an is the principle source of every Muslim's faith and practice. It deals with all subjects that concern us as human beings, including wisdom, doctrine, worship and law; but its basic theme is the relationship between God and His creatures. At the same time, the Qur'an provides guidelines for a just society, proper human conduct and equitable economic principles.

i was about to post the same exact post :D thanks for that.
we should invite badecker and spendulus into that. just make sure when you post, you put the full quote supporting it as well as the reference..

Thanks for your suggestion I invite everyone here to post in this thread but that must be related to this topic and We will Discuss it here, And Sorry Being Faster than you  ;D
Yeah I will Quote it here with references.

So... Lets see the first "Micacle" from the Quran.
Cant wait for this debate to start..

HOLY QURAN remain safe isn't it an open evidence of presence of ALLAH SUBHANALLAH. everything burnt out .

Holy quran is safe becuase God is the protector of Holy Quran.

https://i.imgur.com/93tGWMj.jpg

Or it could just be reinforced paper..
Since so many have been burning the quran it has been made with a paperlike material so it was harder to set on fire.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/12/23/world/asia/ap-as-tsunami-mosque-as-refuge.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/12/23/world/asia/ap-as-tsunami-mosque-as-refuge.html?_r=0)

https://homelyplanet.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/tsunami-banda-aceh.jpg (https://homelyplanet.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/tsunami-banda-aceh.jpg)


Tsunami Banda-aceh.

28 mosque stood up whilst the whole country was down during the Tsunami.

Miracle #1


The origin of the universe is described in the Qur'an in the following verse:

"He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth."(The Qur'an, 6:101)

This information given in the Qur'an is in full agreement with the findings of contemporary science. The conclusion that astrophysics has reached today is that the entire universe, together with the dimensions of matter and time, came into existence as a result of a great explosion that occurred in no time. This event, known as "The Big Bang" proved that the universe was created from nothingness as the result of the explosion of a single point. Modern scientific circles are in agreement that the Big Bang is the only rational and provable explanation of the beginning of the universe and of how the universe came into being.

Before the Big Bang, there was no such thing as matter. From a condition of non-existence in which neither matter, nor energy, nor even time existed, and which can only be described metaphysically, matter, energy, and time were all created. This fact, only recently discovered by modern physics, was announced to us in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.

http://s13.postimg.org/4rmosedmv/image004.jpg

The sensitive sensors on board the COBE space satellite which was launched by NASA in 1992, captured evidentiary remnants of the Big Bang. This discovery served as evidence for the Big Bang, which is the scientific explanation of the fact that the universe was created from nothing.

Does it say in the Quran that the big bang happend, or does it just support the idea of it.

Because ""He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth."(The Qur'an, 6:101)"
Does not really say much about it..

In 1916, Albert Einstein formulated his General Theory of Relativity that indicated that the universe must be either expanding or contracting.  Confirmation of the expanding-universe theory finally came in 1929 in the hands of the well known American astronomer Edwin Hubble.

By observing redshifts[2] in the light wavelengths emitted by galaxies, Hubble found that galaxies were not fixed in their position; instead, they were actually moving away from us with speeds proportional to their distance from earth (Hubble's Law).  The only explanation for this observation was that the universe had to be expanding.  Hubble’s discovery is regarded as one of the greatest in the history of astronomy.  In 1929, he published the velocity-time relation which is the basis of modern cosmology.  In the years to come, with further observations, the expanding-universe theory was accepted by scientists and astronomers alike

astonishingly well before telescopes were even invented and well before Hubble published his Law, Prophet Muhammad used to recite a verse of the Quran to his companions that ultimately stated that the universe is expanding.

“And the heaven We created with might, and indeed We are (its) expander.” (Quran 51:47)

At the time of the revelation of the Quran, the word “space” was not known, and people used the word “heaven” to refer to what lies above the Earth.  In the above verse, the word “heaven” is referring to space and the known universe.  The verse points out that space, and thus the universe, happens to be expanding, just as Hubble’s Law states.

That the Quran mentioned such a fact centuries before the invention of the first telescope, at a time when there was primitive knowledge in science, is considered remarkable.  This is more so considering that, like many people in his time, Prophet Muhammad happened to be illiterate and simply could not have been aware of such facts by himself.  Could it be that he had truly received divine revelation from the Creator and Originator of the universe?

The Big Bang Theory

Soon after Hubble published his theory, he went on to discover that not only were galaxies moving away from the Earth, but were also moving away from one another.  This meant that the universe happened to be expanding in every direction, in the same way a balloon expands when filled with air.  Hubble’s new findings placed the foundations for the Big Bang theory.

The Big Bang theory states that around 12-15 billion years ago the universe came into existence from one single extremely hot and dense point, and that something triggered the explosion of this point that brought about the beginning of the universe.  The universe, since then, has been expanding from this single point. 

Later, in 1965, radio astronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson made a Noble Prize winning discovery that confirmed the Bing Bang theory.  Prior to their discovery, the theory implied that if the single point from which the universe came into existence was initially extremely hot, then remnants of this heat should be found.  This remnant heat is exactly what Penzias and Wilson found.  In 1965, Penzias and Wilson discovered a 2.725 degree Kelvin Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMB) that spreads through the universe.  Thus, it was understood that the radiation found was a remnant of the initial stages of the Big Bang.  Presently, the Big Bang theory is accepted by the vast majority of scientists and astronomers.

It is mentioned in the Quran:

“He (God) is the Originator of the heavens and the earth…” (Quran 6:101)

“Is not He who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the likes of them?  Yes; and He is the Knowing Creator. His command is only when He intends a thing that He says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.” (Quran 36:81-82)

The above verses prove that the universe had a beginning, that God was behind its creation, and all that God needs to do inorder to create is to say “Be,” and it is.  Could this be an explanation as to what triggered off the explosion that brought about the beginning of the universe?

The Quran also mentions:

“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing?  Then will they not believe?” (Quran 21:30)

Muslim scholars who have explained the previous verse mention that the heavens and earth were once one, and then God caused them to separate and form into the seven heavens and Earth.  Yet, due to the limitations of science and technology at the time of the revelation of the Quran (and for centuries to follow), no scholar was able to give much detail about how exactly the heavens and earth were created.  What the scholars could explain was the precise meaning of each word in Arabic in the verse, as well as the overall meaning of the verse.

In the previous verse, the Arabic words ratq and fataq are used.  The word ratq can be translated into “entity” “sewn to” “joined together” or “closed up”.  The meaning of these translations all circulate around something that is mixed and that has a separate and distinct existence.  The verb fataq is translated into “We unstitched” “We clove them asunder” “We separated” or “We have opened them”.  These meanings imply that something comes into being by an action of splitting or tearing apart.  The sprouting of a seed from the soil is a good example of a similar illustration of the meaning of the verb fataq.

With the introduction of the Big Bang theory, it soon became clear to Muslim scholars that the details mentioned with regards to the theory go identically hand in hand with the description of the creation of the universe in verse 30 of chapter 21 of the Quran.  The theory states that all the matter in the universe came into existence from one single extremely hot and dense point; that exploded and brought about the beginning of the universe, matches what is mentioned in the verse that the heaven and Earth (thus the universe) where once joined together, and  then split apart.  Once again, the only possible explanation is that Prophet Muhammad had truly received divine revelation from God, The Creator and Originator of the universe.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1560/ (http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1560/) Reference.

Hope this answers your Questions ~Hamuki~

But how has this "Heaven" been seperated?
Where is heaven?

Is it like the retarded claim that the moon was once split in two? LOL

since the people at that time did not have astrophysics knowledge AND space was not called space but heaven. you have your answer right into the post. why are you asking me re explain? are you trolling? or did you not even read the post???

No, it was way too long so I did not want to read it.

Thats the problem.. There is so much shit being thrown into your face so even if you want to see what it is people are telling you..
Then its almost impossible because there is so much shit to go through to find the specific info that is needed.

Okay.. So they thought that space was heaven..

the word SPACE did not exist 1400 years back. and people thought whatever was ABOVE the earth was HEAVEN.

Wow such proof. I'm sold. Am now Muslam.  ::)

Only fools will look at the quran or bible and believe anything it has to say, especially regarding anything scientific. Look how you take that one line and project some deeper meaning on to it when all it and the bible explains for the origin of everything is "god did it". Absolute rubbish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ7HiY49P3w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ7HiY49P3w)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEcocSZnk1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEcocSZnk1g)

this one is for you specifically

Maybe ....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/5974296-3x2-940x627.jpg

Proxelistisme has no limit ...

Good bye Quran ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zblTCsThDE

This lowly and humble kaffir has studied lunar geology since 2010, and would like to be educated in how the moon could be split and put back together.

I respect his belief but I think it was a bad choice of words to say "the grand design of the universe" because in saying that you imply that there is a designer which goes entirely against his beliefs.

Really ?

Let's see now, hmm, solid stone building remains while the rickety shacks around it were washed away.

'Tis truly miraculous, no?

:epicrolleyes:

I despise willful ignorance and this thread is already chock full of it before we've even got to the second page. The OP and friends are not interested in actually proving their case, they've already been conditioned to believe without question.

Ahh yeah, I remember that one, that's from the Tsunami isn't it? Like you say cryptodevil they actually took a look at the building and the reason it was left standing was because it had been really well constructed, rather ironic really considering that religious building was likely taking money from all the people around it who could have used that to build some real houses.

The Big Bang theory postulates that neither matter nor energy existed prior to the Bang, hence no thing comprised of matter and/or energy could have existed.  There is no "place outside" of the Big Bang, everything is "inside it."

So there was no "He" existing made from matter and/or energy.

That is an interesting picture, but as cryptodevil said "solid stone building remains while the rickety shacks around it were washed away." However it is a really nice picture, and we consider it a building miracle (thanks to construction workers).

there we go, the speculation i was waiting for .. there were lots of concrete buildings, not talking about houses. buildings that were present before the tsunami and not after it. if you do some research you might find your answers





i would love to know how and what kind of material and scientific tool was used to measure or to know that there was nothing before the big bang?
or if there is something beyond the universe?

as a child i was told pluto was a planet. i grew up with this belief, now they say pluto is not a planet.

my question is : should i trust theories and science or not?

they fed us for over 20years that pluto was a planet then one day says no, its not a planet in our solar system. it is very far.


http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/astronomy-terms/before-big-bang1.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/astronomy-terms/before-big-bang1.htm)

with that being said, science is limited to the intelligence of human beings. can we totally trust science.. hmm that question need to be raised. since they say something and few years later they have other new technology and refutes what was being said before.

Wow, thanks. This video really put things into perspective for me. The Bill Gates question really proved everything about Allah and how great he is /sarcasm. Thanks for wasting 20 minutes of my life. I literally have no idea what you're trying to infer this video proves other than how utterly delusional and nonsensical religious nuts are. There's no substance there but utter waffle and science proves everything he said otherwise but obviously he conveniently disregards that. Can you summarise what point you were trying to make or what I should actually take away from that video because I'm lost? To me 'Dr' Zakir Naik is just a televangelist making money and getting rich off the back of the bullshit he sells to others and probably doesn't even believe himself. Always hypocrites peddling rubbish.

i think this 2 memes describe op and thread pretty good :)

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/158/329/9189283.jpg http://www.knowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Argument-Ancient-Aliens.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhsC9fJ10Ig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhsC9fJ10Ig)

i think that will answer your question

Perhaps the Athiest Nightmare would be a better video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4yBvvGi_2A

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/00/002bfbce7db5edc4622c7b3d13924e3bc1b15a62cbd5fa1daac23a9a0d50fe13.jpg  :D


Sadly this is essentially what these arguments always boil down down. Sad the brainwahsing that goes on from birth with some people.

or mere logic with analytical documents and conduction numerous researches

The quran is as accurate as the bible is as accurate as the torah.

In unix OS terms they are all based on the linux kernel except all 3 took their own direction but at the end they all run on the same engine.

It is fascinating to me how anyone could dedicate themself to any of these religions when you could simply open all 3 of them if you are interested in the old testament.

Please provide me the evidence that the quran is better than the bible or torah. Did the real creator need the torah and bible as the first and second revision before hitting the absolute proof being called the quran?

The only facts around abrahamic religions is that they are all the same thing with different levels of abuse and violence.

i will reply this without any quote and any Quranic sentences.

just pure logic.

when you were in primary did they give you the book you would use in university?

or did they spoon feed you with little by little information till you are able to learn the final book?

this definitly should answer your question

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/158/329/9189283.jpg http://www.knowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Argument-Ancient-Aliens.jpg

 :D

i thought trolling was not allowed on the forum?

Right so you believe that in a dirt-poor place like that there were buildings other than the mosque which were built as well as the mosque?

my last post was not a troll, it was your argument as two images  :)

maybe i should not, right??

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/31/japan.disaster.budget/t1larg.building.afp.gi.jpg (http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/31/japan.disaster.budget/t1larg.building.afp.gi.jpg)
https://arche-nova.org/sites/default/files/styles/galleryformatter_full/public/images/galerien/Sri%20Lanka%20I%20-%202.JPG?itok=BU6YXhme (https://arche-nova.org/sites/default/files/styles/galleryformatter_full/public/images/galerien/Sri%20Lanka%20I%20-%202.JPG?itok=BU6YXhme)
http://gallery.usgs.gov/images/03_30_2010/q74Xo00Nni_03_30_2010/large/IMG_6526.jpg (http://gallery.usgs.gov/images/03_30_2010/q74Xo00Nni_03_30_2010/large/IMG_6526.jpg)
https://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/la-0322-pin04.jpg (https://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/la-0322-pin04.jpg)
http://ak.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/1750748/preview/stock-footage-damage-to-building-after-japan-tsunami.jpg (http://ak.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/1750748/preview/stock-footage-damage-to-building-after-japan-tsunami.jpg)




i wonder how this is an argument? also it is a repeated photo that have already been posted. am i not right on this one buddy?

Nobody knows everything. There is new knowledge being found all the time. What is more interesting is that much of this new knowledge is really very, very old knowledge.

Graham Hancock and several others are showing that people from around 12,500 years ago and before, had more knowledge than any of us have today. General scientific dating agrees with Hancock's time evaluations. While I don't agree with the ages, the things that Graham Hancock has found are very interesting. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcPgIphDWGY and others.

The point? The Arabs and other peoples of 2,000 years ago (or 1,400 years ago) didn't invent much of anything. They might have re-invented some of it. They might have received their knowledge from old book sources that are no longer available. But they were not the first inventors by thousands of years.

While the inventions of the Arabs might have made things easier for many peoples, the peoples of India and China have made many discoveries and inventions. In all cases, it is not the inventions and discoveries that make the people strong. Look at the poverty in much of the Arab world, and certainly in India, and in much of China, as well.

Without the infusion of European and American petrodollars, the whole of Arabia would be in poverty. China and India are starting to pull out of poverty because of American ingenuity.

What is the ONE major thing that America and Europe - especially Western Europe - have that nobody else in the world really has? It is the thing that, when the other nations gain it, they start to pull out of their poverty. It is also the thing that will plunge America into poverty if they lose it.

:)

now the argument is about population and countries. the post was initially about miracles of the Quraan. kindly do not post off topic, thank you :)

Having problems seeing that the miracles of the Quran are not miracles of the Quran? That's the largest point of everything in the miracles-or-the-Quran idea. One of the biggest miracles of Islamites who have studied is that they don't have the understanding to see that the Quran doesn't really provide any miracles.

Other things didn't work. so now the Islamites are focusing on the "miracles" idea. Once people find out that the so-call miracles of the Quran have been around forever without the Quran, they will start to see what a fraud Islam really is.

:)

and then you follow up with this gem ?


Nothing you stated is pure logic. If that is were case then your imaginary upgrade of information point you tried to make simply means the world yet again upgraded from the Quran with the introduction of scientology ? Uh oh, did I just destroy your logic-time-space-continuem.

Then why are you doing the trolling?  :D Just because people mock your beliefs or have opposing ones does not make them trolls or mean you're being trolled. I hate that cop out argument. I think debates on religions are also pointless though because both sides or always steadfast in their beliefs but only one has been brainwashed and is unwilling to listen to arguments or ever change their mind.

The Sound of Muslims https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POJdu4HV-Ng

A fun animated video with a lot of the outrageous stuff that can be found in the Quran.

Actually you should, explain what images of various concrete buildings in different places and from different tsunamis actually has to do with you believing you have successfully delivered a rebuttal of the point I made.

If you've looked around you should realise that Christians haven't had any success with arguing with us constantly about this kind of thing and niether will Muslims, I suspect this will devolve into another 200 page thread before you finally go round the bend and resort to circular pre-programmed logic like all religious people do when directly confronted about their beliefs.

I agree, no sense in debating about religions. It will be just an unending words about who has the greater religion bla bla bla..

True, a debate in essence means both sides could have an overwhelming strong point in order to win the debate.

Religions simply do not have a factual end point thus can not be debated.

then kindly concentrate the debate on the topic rather than threading off topic, it will be more direct to point out form the book what you dont believe in the miracles rather than trolling off subject.. that way the post wont go over 200 pages and i wont bend, turn or whatever you said

Everything I stated is on-topic.

We are all still waiting for factual proof of miracles.

You can start off by defining the scientific meaning of the word miracle backed up by factual evidence and not just hearsay or thumbsucking.

You absolutely outdid yourself showing us this video, pedrog. There are a bunch of videos around it that are just as "funny."

:)

i dont think you understood it, but let me try again:

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/61036354.jpg http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/61036411.jpg

kudos to the meme gen website  ;D

I go through all the above post and Concluded that, People are just Trolling here. They Dont want to argue they are just spamming here. What they are They Just DON'T WANT TO understand Other point of view. Taking only one word from the Whole post and Throwing tons of their Openion on other.

On the other hand, you got some supporters too! That's how bitcointalk is. Similarly to all online forums there are going to be trolls.

That video from pedrog, and the other videos around it in Youtube, show that the Quran is full of just as much or more BS as it might have actual knowledge. Go look, but if you don't, I understand. It's hard to look at the flaws in your pet religion. Here's the link again - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POJdu4HV-Ng.

:)

Yeah These things are Written in the Quran and I believe These are 100% correct without any doubt. So what is your Point? in this video? what you want say you never mentioned in the ^ post? You say These are Flaws why these Are Flaw you never mentioned? If you can Post here any flaw with Solid Reason then I will also Answer your Doubts.

I'm not even a Muslim, but I hate when people hijack threads like that. It's fine if you don't agree with one's beliefs. A joke or two are ok but posting such unrelated toxic replies is the kind of trolling that makes bitcoin communities toxic.

Thanks for posting. Much appreciated, friend!


Thank you. BADecker is doing this for a long time. I have okay with his opinions as it is freedom of speech but not backing up the claimings and also posting a smiley in every post which is weird amd it certainly has a "twisting" effect IMHO.

to be honest with you zakir i dont think badecker has any point at all.
like on the other post he could not prove that muslim or islam from facts that (maybe only he has) the Quraan and the Hadiths tells muslims to BE VIOLENT.

i have shown to him dozens of websites supporting my claims and backing my posts with quotes, facts and science. he only replies with that one post he has from a website that obviously is nurturing his mind in a bad way because of twisted morcels of quotes rather than the full quote itself in its original way.

as far as badecker is concerned he is more of a troll than someone with a brain. and he dares to say people in gunea or africa or amazon people are dumb. try live the way they do then come back to say they have no intelligence.

the human as itself is the most intelligent beings on this planet, they have the ability to think and have their free will. badecker is just poisoning the threads with his obvious islamophobic minded being that he is.

he cannot prove anything nor has he posted anything wise on both thread.

he cherrypick a few words and twist it to make it a comment. i would rather think the guy is trying to get post counts rather than factual posts  :D :D :D :D :D :D

Sure, let's hear about that Moon splitting apart.

http://www.qatarliving.com/forum/politics/posts/moon-split-common-even-nasa-says-so (http://www.qatarliving.com/forum/politics/posts/moon-split-common-even-nasa-says-so)

here you go. its been a while you are asking for this, because all the other accusations and misinterpretations were all wiped out.

 Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."  Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

 

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

 

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

 Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
 

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "  This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes.  It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle.  Not only is this Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption.  (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).  Allah will allow the disabled into Paradise, but will provide a larger reward to those who are able to kill in his cause.

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."  

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

 Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.  Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."
 
Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."  The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad".  The context is obviously holy war.

 Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."  This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

 Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."   "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context.  It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while.  Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."  

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost."  Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad.  The wounded are to be held captive for ransom.  The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims.  Those who kill pass the test.

From the Hadith:

 Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

 Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."  In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy.  This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

  
Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'
 
Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

 Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

 Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'.  And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

 Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

 Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'."


And one of my favorites. but dont worry I left tons of scripture out also, these are just a small percentage of the hate.

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."


 http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/kenya-garissa-4-3-2015.jpg
Christian students massacred on Easter weekend by devout Muslims.

All take from a great site known as http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/


We need more miracles of the Quran cause the first one was bullshit.

Arabs had a grasp on "Space" far before the 1400's and there are numerous famous arab astronomers from 400-500 years before that. They mainly followed Ptolemaic astronomy.

See your muslim bs doesn't work on us, you can't just spout shit off, write a line of scripture and say LOOK LOOK allah created this and it says so here in these 7 words.

Maybe you can tell that to the 16 year old kid who has a 2nd grade education before you send him off to blow himself up in the name of Allah, but your gonna need better than that here.



http://www.qatarliving.com/forum/politics/posts/moon-split-common-even-nasa-says-so

Nasa does not say so, even the wiki page they used as a reference says this.

NASA mis-cited as proof

NASA photograph from Apollo 10 in 1969. A scar on the surface of the moon alleged to be evidence of a healed split

Apollo mission photographs of the Rima Ariadaeus revealed a rift line across the surface of the moon. A 2004 book by Zaghloul El-Naggar reproduces one of these photographs and says that British Muslim David Musa Pidcock told him he had seen a 1978 "program" (sic) in which he claimed that unnamed US space scientists had said that "the moon had been split a long time ago and rejoined, and there is a lot of concrete evidence on the surface of the moon to prove this".[16] This was reported as proof of splitting by news services such as Jafariya News[17][18] and on Internet Web sites. On being asked in 2010, NASA scientist Brad Bailey said, "My recommendation is to not believe everything you read on the internet. Peer-reviewed papers are the only scientifically valid sources of information out there. No current scientific evidence reports that the Moon was split into two (or more) parts and then reassembled at any point in the past."[6]

You even linked a Nasa site which says it is believed to be lava flows LOL

Explanation: What could cause a long indentation on the Moon? First discovered over 200 years ago with a small telescope, rilles (rhymes with pills) appear all over the Moon. Three types of rilles are now recognized: sinuous rilles, which have many meandering curves, arcuate rilles which form sweeping arcs, and straight rilles, like Ariadaeus Rille pictured above. Long rilles such as Ariadaeus Rille extend for hundreds of kilometers. Sinuous rilles are now thought to be remnants of ancient lava flows, but the origins of arcuate and linear rilles are still a topic of research. The above linear rille was photographed by the Apollo 10 crew in 1969 during their historic approach to only 14-kilometers above the lunar surface. Two months later, Apollo 11, incorporating much knowledge gained from Apollo 10, landed on the Moon.

Keep trying.

Lol funny stuff. They should rename the Quran to "Broscience 101, with your host Mohammad Bro Scientist".

Still waiting on the Muslims to explain why multiple links to pictures of damaged concrete buildings in different countries, from different tsunamis, qualify as a valid rebuttal.

You *do* know that the only possible comparison you can make about this sturdy building surviving has to be based on an equally sturdy building nearby which was subjected to the same tidal forces as the Mosque, yet were destroyed, in order to make anything like a reasonable assertions towards the Mosque being somehow 'special', you know, in a 'woo' way.

That picture of the mosque still standing is a perfect example how people will latch on to things whilst ignoring all the rational reasoning around it. Allah floos the place but washes away everything else but the mosque? How many innocent people were killed during the tusnami. How many other mosques have been destroyed in floods before? None? I don't think so. I'm sure plenty have been flattened by bombs before.


Laughed out loud at that. Thanks.

This makes me laugh out loud.  As I mentioned I have studied lunar geology for five years and am using much of it in a book nearly complete.  So you can consider me an expert on the subject to an extent.

Your references were written as "claims" not "proofs" and not only show no understanding of the Moon.  It mis states the actual facts and lies about what NASA has said.  Of course this is men lying, not your Koran.  NASA has said this is a natural feature and many similar ones are on Earth.  Here is a part of the article you linked to:

The report, spread on scientific foundations in different global parts, said that the picture which illustrates splitting of moon confirms that the moon was split into two halves during its geological age. The report said the scientists were unable to give any scientific explanation for happening of ‘moon splitting’ as any such splitting was never happened to any heavenly body prior to what happened to the moon. The geologists assert that it is impossible that such a line appears save the moon was split into two halves and then it was rejoined.

But there is no such "report."  There are no scientists that say they could give no scientific explanation for the Rille, rather the complete opposite.  This is a common surface feature. 

The item in question is the  Ariadaeus Rille.  This feature is near the lunar equator, and slightly each of the centerline of a full moon (6N 10E).   It is perhaps a billion years old.  There are many such features on the lunar surface, both large and small.  From features that the rille overlays and those which are laid down on top of it, the age of the feature can be calculated.

Here is what NASA has to say about the rille.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/lroc_20090928_ariadaeus.html

Experts agree that Rima Ariadaeus, about 300 km (186.4 mi) long, is a fault system similar to those on Earth. A large portion of Rima Ariadaeus is visible in this subset of an LROC frame (below), and the LROC NAC image (above) shows part of the rille fault scarp. A mare surface is visible in the southwest corner of the image, and a defined contact between the rille wall and the rille floor is visible in the northeast corner of the image. Rima Ariadaeus is 5 km (3.1 mi) wide and disrupts the preexisting geologic features.

The stratigraphic relationships between the rille and other surface features can help determine whether the rille is older or younger than these features with respect to relative age. For example, the rille cross-cuts a ridge in the middle-left of the WAC frame (near the arrow in the WAC image below); this relationship suggests that the rille is younger than the ridge, because the rille changed the shape of the ridge. However, in the LROC NAC image, there are small craters present on the rille floor, which suggests that the rille is older than these superposing craters. These types of observations are used to examine stratigraphic relationships and the relative ages of landforms in this region so that scientists can reconstruct the moon's geologic history.

Here are images down to two meters resolution.

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/279

Here is the Wikipedia entry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rima_Ariadaeus

I am happy to read and comment on other articles you may know of whether written by Islamic scholars and or Islamic scientists on the subject of "Splitting the Moon."

Thanks for taking the time to post this. I hope you've protected your anonymity. Muslims and their defenders can be kind of touchy, as your post makes clear. It's a shame we live in a society where people can't openly talk about this without putting their lives in danger.

Finally, BADecker has found company, with fundamenalist nutters just as crazy as him! Who will win, the split moon or the young earth? Or will inbred illuminati bloodlines jump out from nowhere? Find out at bitcointalk.org!

Hi, CoolRunnings21! I haven't seen you in these type of threads earlier. Thank you for posting! It's good to see a person who talk with references. I will try my best to explain. I can also explain word by word if you need. Feel free to ask uncleared doubts and sorry if there was typos/mistakes in my part.


Misinterpretation.

Correct: “And fear not in following up the enemy: If ye are suffering hardships, they are suffering similar hardships; but ye have Hope from Allah, while they have none. And Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.”

Hope that clears your doubt.


“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;”

This is punishment for making mischief in lands. It is regarding Israel.

5:32 - “On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.”

5:34 - “Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”

See? What you quote is out of context and these verses are regarding Israel land.


“Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”

Meaning of smite is heavy blow. That's what happens in a war.


“They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-”

4:90 - “Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).”

See? What you quote is out of context and these verses are regarding peace.


Mistranslation.

4:95 - “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home without reason) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,”


Out of context.

8:55 - “For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.    

8:56 - “They are those with whom thou didst make a covenant, but they break their covenant every time, and they have not the fear (of Allah)”

8:57 - “If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember.”

8:58 - “If thou fearest treachery from any group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms: for Allah loveth not the treacherous.”

This is about peace treaty.


Out of context and mistranslation.

8:66 - “For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah. for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.”

8:67 - ”It is not fitting for an apostle that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.”

8:68 - ”Had it not been for a previous ordainment from Allah, a severe penalty would have reached you for the (ransom) that ye took.”

8:69 - “But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good: but fear Allah. for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”

8:70 - “O Messenger. say to those who are captives in your hands: "If Allah findeth any good in your hearts, He will give you something better than what has been taken from you, and He will forgive you: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”


Out of context.

8:59 - “Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them).”

8:60 - “Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.”

8:61 - “But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah. for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).”


Out of context and you are wrong. It is obvious that these verses tell about commerce(and/or money).

9:18 - “The mosques of Allah shall be visited and maintained by such as believe in Allah and the Last Day, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity, and fear none (at all) except Allah. It is they who are expected to be on true guidance.”

9:19 - “Do ye make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Sacred Mosque, equal to (the pious service of) those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and strive with might and main in the cause of Allah. They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. and Allah guides not those who do wrong.”

9:20 - “Those who believe, and suffer exile and strive with might and main, in Allah.s cause, with their goods and their persons, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah. they are the people who will achieve (salvation).”

9:21 - “Their Lord doth give them glad tidings of a Mercy from Himself, of His good pleasure, and of gardens for them, wherein are delights that endure:”

9:22 - “They will dwell therein for ever. Verily in Allah.s presence is a reward, the greatest (of all).”

9:23 - “O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.”

9:24 - “Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline: or the dwellings in which ye delight - are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious.


Out of context.

8:36 - “The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.”

8:37 - “Verily the transposing (of a prohibited month) is an addition to Unbelief: the Unbelievers are led to wrong thereby: for they make it lawful one year, and forbidden another year, in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by Allah and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their course seems pleasing to them. But Allah guideth not those who reject Faith.”

8:38 - “O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.”

8:39 - “Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things.”

8:40 - “If ye help not (your leader), (it is no matter): for Allah did indeed help him, when the Unbelievers drove him out: he had no more than one companion; they two were in the cave, and he said to his companion, "Have no fear, for Allah is with us": then Allah sent down His peace upon him, and strengthened him with forces which ye saw not, and humbled to the depths the word of the Unbelievers. But the word of Allah is exalted to the heights: for Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.”


Out of context and WHY cut the last part? Important part? You are again wrong, my friend!

25:52 - “Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the Qur'an.”

Arabic verse: فَلَا تُطِعِ الْكَافِرِينَ وَجَاهِدْهُم بِهِ جِهَادًا كَبِيرًا

Here بِهِ means "this" which means Qur'an.


Out of context and this is about women and the punishment is particularly to who harass them.

33:53 - “O ye who believe! Enter not the Prophet's houses,- until leave is given you,- for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah.s Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah's sight an enormity.”

33:54 - “Whether ye reveal anything or conceal it, verily Allah has full knowledge of all things.”

33:55 - “There is no blame (on these ladies if they appear) before their fathers or their sons, their brothers, or their brother's sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the (slaves) whom their right hands possess. And, (ladies), fear Allah. for Allah is Witness to all things.”

33:56 - “Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.”

33:57 - “Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment.”

33:58 - “And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin.”

33:59 - “O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

33:60 - “Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:”

33:61 - “They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy).”

33:62 - “(Such was) the practice (approved) of Allah among those who lived aforetime: No change wilt thou find in the practice (approved) of Allah.”


Nope. It is a test, however, you don't want to kill, just fight. Besides, this is about war. Unbelievers here mentioned are people who make wars with Muslims and why cut some part? If it was in a war, will you try to kill them or try to be friends with them? Also, in verse 4, Allah said to be generous to them. You cut that part or obviously, you just copy-pasted. :)

47:3 - “This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.”

47:4 - “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah.s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.”


Copy-pasted appropriate paragraphs(I am poor at writing):

This is a prediction, not an order for Muslims to kill Jews. The Prophet told Muslims in many Hadith's about how the day of Judgement will be, what will happen during it, what natural disasters will happen, what wars will break out, who will fight against whom. One of these predictions is that Muslims will unite and fight against Jews. These predictions exist in all the three religions. In Torah we can find the prediction about Armageddon battle when the Messiah will return to earth to KILL anti-Christ with the help of Jews and Christians. It will happen at the end of time, before the day of Judgement.

The same man who said this prediction, i.e. Prophet Muhammad, had a Jewish neighbor whom he visited him when he was sick. He stood in respect for a passing funeral of a Jew. Are these the deeds of a man who want his followers to kill Jews?

It's not a hatred speech, it's a prophecy of what will happen at the End of time. Prophet Muhammad told us that before Judgement day, natural disasters will happen, he told us too that reasons will gather to lead to a war between Muslims and Jews, this will happen before Judgement day. It doesn't mean we shall fight them now.

Bukhari 23:399 - “Sahl bin Hunaif and Qais bin Sad were sitting in the city of Al-Qadisiya. A funeral procession passed in front of them and they stood up. They were told that funeral procession was of one of the inhabitants of the land i.e. of a non-believer, under the protection of Muslims. They said, "A funeral procession passed in front of the Prophet and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?"”

Bukhari 34:282 - “The Prophet purchased food grains from a Jew on credit and mortgaged his iron armor to him.”

Bukhari 41:581 - “When my father died he owed a Jew thirty Awsuq (of dates). I requested him to give me respite for repaying but he refused. I requested Allah's Apostle to intercede with the Jew. Allah's Apostle went to the Jew and asked him to accept the fruits of my trees in place of the debt but the Jew refused. Allah's Apostle entered the garden of the date-palms, wandering among the trees and ordered me (saying), "Pluck (the fruits) and give him his due." So, I plucked the fruits for him after the departure of Allah's Apostle and gave his thirty Awsuq, and still had seventeen Awsuq extra for myself...”

Bukhari 41:599 - “.. I had common land with a Jew, and the Jew later on denied my ownership, so I took him to the Prophet who asked me whether I had a proof of my ownership. When I replied in the negative, the Prophet asked the Jew to take an oath. I said, "O Allah's Apostle! He will take an oath and deprive me of my property." So, Allah revealed the following verse: "Verily! Those who purchase a little gain at the cost of Allah's covenant and their oaths." (3:77)”

See? Prophet was kind and just to Jews.


Wrong.
 
Bukhari 52:257 - “During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.”

Bukhari 52:258 - “During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children.”

Abu Dawud 14:2666 - “Thereafter the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) prohibited to kill women and children.”


Out of context.

“Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).”


Problem?


These both are in Chapter 9. Need more time to search about this. Remind me if I forgot to answer. :)


Misunderstanding.

“Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."”

By "slaughter", here it means slaughtering of animals. I am sure you know muslims slaughter animals differently than othera do.


It was released at the time if war. People who die in the war will be in paradise. I am fairly certain you misunderstood this like many others.


No worries as it isn't hatred. :)


Misunderstanding.

“The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to c awl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."”

Prophet use this for showing "how important" is praying in Masjid. There has been circumstances where prophet said similar words to give them more weight or to show how important it is. It is a metaphor.


RIP, brothers! This is pure racism.


Many errors in it. Please look more about the things you quote before posting. It is appreciated. But if you didn't understand, feel free to post here.


Open your eyes, read more and you will see.


Honestly/Truly, it's an honor to meet a lunar expert. :)

I am coming on that part tomorrow. It's 3:19 AM in India now. I had to spend 3-5 hours to reply what CoolRunnings21 posted. I am really grateful to him because his posts made me look further and get more knowledge.

01:54 in Mauritius. yes i do not just sit at home and reply back :D i got other things to do but spend the most of my time i can spare to reply the comments and allegations.

i hope no one finds that terrorism ;) that we are not spending 24/7 on the posts :D

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap021029.html Says nothing about the moon cracking in two.

And the other link is a website that is also islamic.

There is no view of this prooven by a source that isnt Islamic?
Just because there is lines on the moon does not mean it was split.

Show some proof of this that isnt from a Islamic website..

Whats next.. Saturns rings are the tears of the girls Mohammed raped?

Muhammad(PBUH) didn't rape anyone. How can a tear be rings? Also AFAIK gravitational force pull things down not up.

You do realize what those rings around saturn is... Right?

Mohammed(SBUH) did rape a 9 year old.

Regarding splitting of the moon:

I don't think splitting it moons is scientifically proven and as a result, what I say maybe hard to believe. I am not quoting verses if Qur'an ir Hadiths. However, history maybe able to convince you. :)

Legend of a king abdicating his throne to vindicate his certitude is a glorious chapter in any history. There are a number of regional and tribal variations on the tradition of Cheraman Perumal, his abdication of throne to convert to Islam and subsequent pilgrimage to Mecca. The most accepted and popular version is as follows.

Cheraman Perumal, the reigning King of Kerala, with Kodungallur as its capital, once witnessed of the new moon being split into two halves at the horizon. His Court astrologers could not give him a satisfactory explanation. Later when a group of Arab traders on their way to Ceylon met the Perumal, he mentioned about his dream. They explained that this could probably be the miracle Prophet performed at Arabia (Holy Qur’an-54:1-5).

This explanation convinced him and he decided to embrace Islam. His decision to leave for Mecca was kept a secret. He divided his land and assigned various territories to local chieftains to ensure smooth governance. He then left for Mecca, met the prophet and embraced Islam. He spent some years there and while returning home, fell ill and died at Dhufar in Oman. Before his death, he wrote letters to local rulers of Malabar and handed them to his friends. Later, when Malik Bin Dinar and his companions reached Kodungallur, the letters were handed over to the ruling chieftains. They were given permission to construct mosques in different places. The first mosque in India was thus constructed at Kodungallur and Malik Bin Dinar himself was the first Ghazi of this "Cheraman Masjid". After a while he appointed his relative Habib Bin Malik as the Ghazi at Cheraman Masjid and traveled across the length and breadth of Kerala. He established different Mosques in different parts of Kerala. Later, he left for Arabia where he died. It is believed that the old tombs now at Cheraman Mosque belong to Habib Bin Malik and his wife Khumarriah.

---

Chraman Masjid is the first Masjid in India which was built dutung the lifetime of Muhammad(PBUH). This Masjid is about 15.2 km from my home.

Kerala Tourism Website: https://www.keralatourism.org/muziris/cheraman-juma-masjid.php
Official Website: http://www.cheramanmosque.com/

Hope this helps.

And what backs up this story?
Anything that is scientificly prooven?

We Muslims also go to school, college and we do study. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rings_of_Saturn :)


You are talking about 'Aisha. Please read more and post. I kindly request you not to post without researching, this might also be a media intlunce, i.e. you got from somewhere and you posted here. :)

There are books regarding history, you may want to take a look. You can also come and visit the Masjid it you don't believe me. You can visit the burial place of Chraman Perumal also. Read more please...

So, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard once before that originally the Qu'ran was written in a sort of trance (being transcribed by followers of the prophet) as Mohammed meditated in a cave. I heard that these original copies were written without dots (from Wikipedia 'Arabic language': "These dots are an integral part of a letter, since they distinguish between letters that represent different sounds."): I heard that this was the case with the Qu'ran and originally there were 14 different versions of the holy book - each with very different meanings. At some point in history someone or some people decided to burn all but 1 of these interpretations. Does anyone know about this or care to inform me better? Just interested in this part of history not really have an opinion about it either way.

There were only 1 "real" version of Qur'an. Other versions are false which were by non-arabs who converted to Islam.

“After the death of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), and during the time of the Caliphs, hundreds of thousands of non-Arabs converted to Islam.  Consequently, the Quran began to be recited and written in various different dialects and scripts.  One of Prophet Mohammad’s companions, and Uthman’s friend Hudhaifah, whilst on a journey noticed that there were many different recitations of Quran throughout the Muslim Empire.  Hudhaifah suggested to Uthman that there be an official version written in the style used in Medina.

Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) knew the Quran by heart and had intimate knowledge of the context and circumstances relating to each verse.  The Quran had been gathered during the time of Abu Bakr and was in the safekeeping of Prophet Muhammad’s wife Hafsah.

Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) took possession of the originals and ordered some of the most trusted companions to make careful copies.  He then ordered all other unofficial copies to be burned or otherwise destroyed.  Five official copies were sent to the greatest cities of the Muslim Caliphate. Original copies exist to this day in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and the Topkapi Palace in Istanbul, Turkey.”

The only thing you want me to read is the Quran or any other book that is written by the same psycho that wrote the Quran.
If you can only reffere to islamic "proofs" and islamic sources, then I cant seem to find a reason to discuss with you since you are brain washed with that shit.

My friend, did I told you to read Qur'an? Did I tols you to read Islamic books? I told you to refer to historical books. There many libraries, go through one of them. There is proof of existence as the Masjid is still there and burial place of Cheraman Perumal is still can be seenin Oman. :)

Old books = Big influence of religion.

That means its not a trusted source of information

So you want a book written now about the past? Almost all accurate books about a period will be written at that time and other will most probably be estimate/assumptions unless he/she is "supernatural".

P.S. If you can't trust old books, you can't believe no histories.

correct! if you cannot trust amongst the oldest UNMODIFIED books. not those who adapts themselves with time. then you should read asterix and obelix or something like that. its more appropriate for your age hamuki

Ok. Thanks for finding and sharing this information with me. It's always better to have the facts than what I heard from who-knows-where. By the way, where is this information from? Thanks.

 :D

On a side note, I didn't mean him to trust Qur'an because it will be hard for a non-muslim unless you research more without the media influence but he is telling he can't trust "old" books. :-\


Anytime. Here is the link: http://islam.ru/en/content/story/third-caliph-uthman-ibn-affan-ra-0.

Be Cautious: I can't promise you all things in any website I link is true. I read things I take from other websites before I copy-paste content here. I usually do it because of my poor English and when I write, you may not understand correctly. In websites, things are obviously written by people who writes, so their writing will be better than mine!!!

Miracle #2: 

Orbits

While referring to the Sun and the Moon in the Qur'an, it is emphasized that each moves in a definite orbit.

"It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit." (The Qur'an, 21:33)

It is mentioned in another verse, too, that the Sun is not static but moves in a definite orbit:

"And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing." (The Qur'an, 36:38)

http://s16.postimg.org/os9vtx49x/19_orbits.jpg

These facts communicated in the Qur'an have been discovered by astronomical observations in our age. According to the calculations of experts on astronomy, the Sun is traveling at the enormous speed of 720,000 kilometers an hour in the direction of the star Vega in a particular orbit called the Solar Apex. This means that the sun travels roughly 17,280,000 kilometers a day. Along with the Sun, and all planets and satellites within the gravitational system of the Sun also travel the same distance. In addition, all the stars in the universe are in a similar planned motion.

That the entire universe is full of paths and orbits such as this one, is written in the Qur'an as follows:

"By the sky full of paths and orbits." (The Qur'an, 51:7)

There are about 200 billion galaxies in the universe, consisting of nearly 200 billion stars in each. Most of these stars have planets, and most of those planets have satellites. All of these heavenly bodies move in very precisely computed orbits. For millions of years, each has been "swimming" along in its own orbit in perfect harmony and order with all the others. Moreover, many comets also move along in the orbits determined for them.

http://s14.postimg.org/527ixwkpd/20_Orbits.jpg

http://s29.postimg.org/sekfp33fr/halleys_comet.jpg

The orbits in the universe do not only belong to celestial bodies. The galaxies also travel at enormous speeds in computed, planned orbits. During these movements, none of these celestial bodies cuts across another's path, or collides with another.

Surely at the time the Qur'an was revealed, mankind did not possess today's telescopes or advanced observation technologies to observe millions of kilometres of space, nor the modern knowledge of physics or astronomy. Therefore, at that time, it was not possible to determine scientifically that space is "full of paths and orbits" as stated in the verse. However, this was openly declared to us in the Qur'an that was revealed at that time:–because the Qur'an is the word of God.

So which part of that quote implies that the planets of our Solar System orbit the Sun?

Reads to me like a geocentric perspective.

By the way, still waiting on someone to acknowledge and concede that claims towards the 'miracle' of the mosque still standing after the tsunami are not sound. Are you guys even interested and open enough to be willing to recognise when you are reasoning incorrectly?

Or are you just pushing your own theist 'miracles' with no intent towards actually being intellectually honest about your claims?

For me it is only a mracle, as I said only a miracle and I also love that picture! It is extremely significant for me :).

So that's a resounding, 'yes', then? You aren't interested in actually being intellectually honest in this discussion at all.

just bumping this because looks like cryptodevil just took a post from page one to elaborate rather than sticking to the latest post...

So you're ignoring the valid point made about your claim towards the mosque and now you want to move on to the next 'miracle' which is a bit of text which sounds like the author still believed the sun went around the earth, but you want to claim it is actually to do with the Sun's own orbit within our galaxy, even though there is no text which suggests that is what was being described.

Why do you assume that this knowledge could not have been available at that time? I think you miss a lot of high cultues in your theory.

And regarding what was written... its like with Nostradamus. You read into it what you want to believe it means.

No Im not assuming this Knowledge is there but It was Not Discovered, In the Quran Hints are Provided Some one Just needs to look into things where it is hinted? why it is so?

No, this is false.  You have not found understanding of Kepler and Copernicus's concepts of astronomy in the Koran.  You have not even showed in the Koran a level of understanding close to that of the ancient Greeks, who built computers that could predict many things.

Ankithera Mechanism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

The fact that you have to split the meanings of words of the Koran to be able to assert it's "knowledge" shows not the strength of your argument, but it's weakness.  Else show where Mohammed laid down the equations of motion please.

I have a suggestion for Muslims that would like to prove that the Moon has been split apart and rejoined.

You have countries that are quite wealthy, just build spaceships and go to the Moon.  This would have all kinds of benefits.  Since you'd need hundreds of thousands of engineers and scientists, you'd need to improve education and eliminate illiteracy.  You'd need to build advanced aerospace manufacturing plants.  Probably have to put all those punks with guns in their hands shouting "allah Akbar" to actually work at jobs.  Machinists, perhaps.

Come back from the Moon with evidence - hard, scientific facts - as to where the Moon was split and where it rejoined.  Leave a marker, a tribute to your Prophet. 

But be prepared to come back having failed to find that miracle.

The actual miracle would have been wrought in your people's advancements.  From the hundred thousand projects that together accomplished a very difficult goal.

You have heard my challenge.

the knowledge that I had probably not been able to discuss things like this .because I have not read it. :'( but that I know the Quran is the answer to every question, al-Quran is  the perfect holy book ..difficult to understand but all the miracles that will happen is already described in the Quran

Astronomers knew planets were orbiting away before the Quran was written it is called the Ptolemaic system.

Miracle #2 = bullshit aswell.

Maybe get off the planets on try 3.

I have a miracle of the Quran.

Goons actually believe this bullshit and are murdering innocent people all over the world in the name of Allah.

I will take your advice of trusting old books and make sure not to drift to far into sea.

I really dont want to fall off the edge of the world and those monsters in the sea really scares me.

These damn old books, too many facts in them to even consider laying them down.

P.S. You do know the Genesis in the cookierun is simply a slightly modified version of the old testament genesis ? Plagiarism at its best really.

Im sure you are well aware that religion is not seeking facts but go by the mighty words of George Michael and that is, "You gotta have faith, faith, faith"

You missed one.

The orbits in the universe do not only belong to celestial bodies. The galaxies also travel at enormous speeds in computed, planned orbits. During these movements, none of these celestial bodies cuts across another's path, or collides with another.

Damn sure do run into each other.  We know because we've seen asteroids hit planets, comets hit Jupiter, binary stars obviously can easily fall into each other, and galaxies collide with galaxies.

You couldn't get clearer examples than this forum of early middle age patterns of thought if you had a time machine.

Wrong. The first verse proves that sun isn't stationary. It isn't about planets. :)

Wrong. Islam doesn't tell anybody to kill. Some people do it. In fact, they ain't muslims because they contradicts Islamic rules/teachings.

Wrong, the Ptolemaic system is about the earth being stationary and everything else orbiting around it.

Wrong, thats what they say about you, they said your an armchair keyboard muslim who is to puss to jihad.

They said go back to the Quran, the struggle does not mean  hitting traffic on the way to the mosque.


Put that in your hookah and smoke it!

Fortunately, that system is also wrong.

Like I said, they can't prove this from Islamic rules/teachings and also Jihad means to strive; to struggle.

Tell them to study arabic.

Unfortunately, I don't smoke.

OMG no shit the system is wrong but it proves that humans and arabs knew that the moon and the sun were orbiting long before the Quran was wrote, so no it is not a miracle.


They said stop sucking the tits of the zionist western infidel invaders, come to Iraq or Syria and they will be more than happy to go over arabic with you.

So that is two for two successful challenges of your claimed 'miracles' so far. You keep ignoring the simple rebuttals of your weak assertions in favour of reposting the vague 'holy' text as though repeating the same massively flawed vague description is providing for a different answer than the first time you failed to make a valid point with it.

Let me ask you again, where in that text about the Sun and the Moon orbiting is there anything which suggests the author meant that the Moon orbited Earth, but that the reference to the Sun described it as being on it's own orbit within our galaxy?

You are talking a small thing from the system and telling they "knew". Their system is wrong.

It is like:

Person-1 (AD 200): I am cycling and when I do, I am spinning and my tyres are stationary.

Person-2 (AD 1000): I am cycling and when I do, my tyres are spinning and I am not.

Person-3 (AD 2015): @Person-2: Cycling was know way long before you did.

^^^ ::)

I think we need to forget it..
They are so brain washed that when you ask for trusted sources they give you the Quran and other "holy" books to read a verse from.

Its like that one retarded kid at school who does not give up even though he has been prooved wrong, and he knows that what is he saying isnt true.

The moon split in two.. It was known only from the Quran that space was a thing and all knowledge come from it. And they keep bitching about that because of islam we have computers today because of an algorithm that was made by a muslim. It was made by a man.. Not by Islam.

If I find more shit, ill add it to a list.
I might even make a thread so we can see if we will get some valid sources from them.

The Mosque is likely a photoshop and I haven't researched or seen more about that news. So I can't comment on it but it is oikely a false one.


21:33 - “It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all swim along, each in its orbit.”

What's the doubt?

Like I said, there isn't scientifical proof for it. However, if science can't proove it, it doesn't mean it is wrong but you may not be able to believe without it.

There is historical proof like the one I gave but you said you can't trust old books. Yet, you say I gave you verses from holy books.

We are being told to read verse's that you post here.
You dont have a valid source that is neutral to show proof from.

You are telling us that we are wrong.. And you are right.

Your honesty is the doubt.

I believe the quote is actually, ""It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit."

Each in AN orbit. Given that the moon and the sun are both being cited, in the same sentence, as being in an orbit, which is more likely, that the author believes both to be orbiting the Earth, or that the moon orbits the Earth but the Sun orbits a point within our Galaxy?

Which is more likely? If you want to cite your 'holy' book as being a miraculous source of knowledge centuries before its time, then you can only cite the text within it, not simply choose to infer from vague ramblings the basis for advanced scientific knowledge.

As has been said, Muslims have contributed to mankind's knowledge throughout history, but that knowledge was not because they were Muslim, it was because they applied scientific and mathematical principals which could be objectively supported and proven, you know, exactly what 'Science' is.

THIS is the exact quote :

21:33 - “It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all swim along, each in its orbit.”

learn arabic to know the exact meaning of words, not fake translation

AFAIK except for splitting of moon, we can give scientific proofs but for splitting of moon, only history proofs but you don't believe in old books.

not just historical proofs from the Quraan.. but people in different region at that time also gave testimony that they saw it.. if you roll back you will see i gave some proofs from those people. and history writes about them.

So are you calling the Muslim, irfan_pak, and thousands of web hits on google as being wrong? Cos I'm not getting much in the way of hits on the phrase as you claim it to be.



So is irfan_pak wrong on this quote, too?

Because if that is a direct quote, where the hell would a 'resting place' be in an orbit?

It reads, YET AGAIN, like the author sees the Sun setting on the Horizon and thinks it it actually moving around the Earth.

So if common sense clearly shows the text to be implying, incorrectly, that the Sun and Moon are orbiting the Earth, where is the clear clarification that, instead, it is actually saying something else entirely?

Although, to be honest, both of you are choosing to miss out this little clanger I found when looking for a version of the quote with your preferred grammar:

"It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the night outstrip the day, each just swims along in its own orbit."

One word: Eclipse.

Sooooooo, yet another 'miracle' bites the dust.

NEXT!

36:38 - And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.

36:39 - And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.   

36:40 - It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).

These tells about day and night and also tells that they are travelling through it's own path.

you actually do your own judgements yourself and rate your own comments.. LOL

keep commenting, am laughing my ass off here :D

Read more. Here you go: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse

A pic:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Lunar_eclipse_diagram-en.svg/1280px-Lunar_eclipse_diagram-en.svg.png

^^^ "A symbolic orbital diagram from the view of the Earth at the center, with the sun and moon projected upon the celestial sphere, showing the Moon's two nodes where eclipses can occur."

Because I'm the only one presenting objectively reasoned facts to prove your claims towards 'miracles' in your book as being utter tripe. You just keep on repeating the same text as though that somehow qualifies as an answer.

http://www.foundalis.com/rlg/Quran_and_science.htm

Seeing as you did the same thing with the first 'miracle' of the mosque, I'm assuming you want to do the same thing with the 'miracle' of the absurd Sun/Moon quote, so I'm saying go for it. Let's have the next one seeing as you have nothing to challenge my take-down of your 'miracles.'

These are interesting Quran verses, then who "wrote" them knew all these things before other. Then I think this is really awesome, and also a prove that the quran is not only a book but a really "knowledge" of everything.

Have you took the time to read what you quoted?


Wrong understanding.


Tries to catch up? You must be kidding! In Qur'an it is mentioned "not permitted to sun to catch up moon". You are making mistranslation.


Right.


Read the verse correctly. It never said sun tries to catch uo the moon. Blatant lie!


I can't comment on "Mosque" as it looks like photoshopped. However, it may or may not be true. I haven't researched about it.

Stop being so dishonest. You know damn well that to claim the Sun is not PERMITTED to do something is to imply that it may otherwise attempt to.

I forbid you to float up into the air! There, you are not permitted to float up into the air. Does that make me somehow the being responsible for you not being able to float up into the air?

you really need to read your comment before you post them. you twist lines so much that in the end you make fun of yourself.

There's no reason to suspect it is photoshopped, simply understanding basic science would explain why the MOST SOLIDLY built structure in the vicinity managed to survive while those NOT BUILT TO THE SAME STANDARD as the mosque, were swept away.

just to reply this quickly, there were hotels around....

Oh, ok, you're just sticking with "I know you are, but what am I?" level of infantile response.

Thanks for the debate about how great your book is. You managed to prove without doubt that it isn't by way of your failure to rebut any of the objectively reasoned challenges made towards your 'miracles'.

Built to the same top-quality standard that the neighbourhood mosque would be? Prove it.

dude hotels.. HOTEL their quality standard are far better than how mosque are built.

now, do you mean mosques are built in the highest quality standards? probably i should built my home that way :D even if a tsunami comes to the island, i will be safe inside :D

You are asserting something you have yet to provide evidence for. Some hotels might be better built than SOME mosques but, in general, especially in poverty-stricken areas, the local mosque is built of top quality stone and marble because, you know, god n'all.

For your assertion that an equally-strong hotel was destroyed near the still-surviving mosque, please circle within that picture where the hotel once stood. We should at least get an idea of the type of building material the hotel was constructed with.

I'm betting it wasn't solid stone and marble.

There is a slight difference in "Sun tries to catch up moon but it isn't permitted" and "It isn't permitted for Sun to catch up moon".

Don't twist verses according to your likes. Qur'an consists of some of the excellent poetry too. Don't pretend to be a fool, I know you are not.

I don't know how you will twist this:

36:39 - And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.

I'm not twisting anything, the phrase "It isn't permitted" implies that permission is not given for something, would you at least agree with that so far? In that you claim that the author of your books says your god did not give permission for the Sun to catch up with the moon, would that not be as asinine as me not giving you permission to float up into the air?

Which part of that quote suggests anything other than ignorance about our Solar System?

You, as most theists tend to do, are the one cherry-picking small quotes (bad ones at that) and attributing meaning to them they simply do not possess and, when taken in the wider context of the surrounding text, generally prove that the book is full of much ignorance and woo.


I don't know how you suggest this is even meaningful. Is this meant to be another 'miracle' or are you still hacking away at the dead horse of the Sun/Moon absurdity?

Agreed.


Aha! Now I understand where you are wrong. It is God's words, not a human's. There is no author for Qur'an, what you see is God's words. However, it was earlier orally transmitted from one person to other and when people who learned fully started dying, it was bundled as a book.


Which part of that quote suggests anything other than ignorance about our Solar System?
[/quote]

It is regarding Allah and the solar system. This is hard to swallow for you.

Qur'an never ignores solar system. If yes, these verses shouldn't even be there. It is poetical verses. You shouldn't understand directly.


You can't find mistakes. Don't you even know how "poet" looks? There will be metaphors too.


It is a metaphor. Think about it. If you know different shapes of moon and how old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk looks, you will understand. :)

Hate to burst your cookierun bubble but you keep apparently quoting the use of the word orbit in arabic in the cookierun.

Sadly the first use and definition of the word orbit came long after the cookierun were written so your assertion that they even used the word orbit is pure speculation and yet again your own interpretation of whatever the hell the arabic word should mean today.

Origin
Mid 16th century (in sense 3 of the noun): from Latin orbita 'course, track' (in medieval Latin 'eye socket'), feminine of orbitus 'circular', from orbis 'ring'.


That said, all holy scriptures read just like the entries in Nostrodamus daily diary. Vague as shit and can be interpreted in a thousand different ways.

FFS, please decide whether you want to play your 'miracle' cards as "amazing science facts nobody could have known about at the time" and "Hey, lighten up, it's just a metaphor, it has meaning and depth and . . .[insert equally vapid nonsense here]"

You can't have it both ways. Either you are presenting 'miracles' of there being scientifically-sound assertions within that book or you're wanting to discuss metaphors and poetry, which isn't the topic of this thread.

Do you know what intellectual integrity means? Serious question.

That close to the ocean, how would you have a good foundation?  It's not impossible, say they dug ten meters down and started piling rock up to the surface, then built the mosque.  Just unlikely. 

IF IT'S NOT PHOTOSHOPPED....then let's have the location of that beach and mosque and we'll look at it on Google Earth.

Can I ask you , where is the problem if someone think those things are a miracle because they are written a lot of years before "the civilization[/in]". Everyone's free to believe at whatever he wants or am I wrong? The only things he should not it is to force other people to believe to those things.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, they are not entitled to their own facts.

If you start a thread titled, "Miracles of Quran", expect to be asked to objectively prove your claim. Otherwise you're just demanding we all stfu and listen to the bullshit 'wisdom' being spouted by the delusional and intellectually dishonest.

No problem! It is good to hear others opinions too. What you said is true but you are mistaken. If your mother tongue is Arabic, for example, you won't translate Arabic to English for your brain to understand. You will understand Arabic by hearing/reading it.

 This is the same mechanism which works here. Humans were same earlier too except a few hanges happened regarding lifespan, height etc... So when Arabs here these verses, they will understand what it means. Besides, "path" itself is enough.



I am not discussing about "poetry" in this thread. However, when you misunderstood it, I said about it.

You can say miracles in poetic way too. I don't think miracles should only be told in simple English.

Like I said, I haven't believed in it. I will have to research more about it but atm, I am using mobile. Will try to post here about the source of that image and whether the mosque is real etc...

True, but 7th century Middle Eastern people knew astrology.  The Islamic calendar was used to predict eclipses, so they had knowledge of the lunar cycles.

There are arcane rules based on the relative sky position of the sun and moon determining what day starts each month in Saudi Arabia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar

Saudi Arabia uses the sighting method to determine the beginning of each month of the Hijri calendar. Since AH 1419 (1998/99) several official hilal sighting committees have been set up by the government to determine the first visual sighting of the lunar crescent at the beginning of each lunar month. Nevertheless, the religious authorities also allow the testimony of less experienced observers and thus often announce the sighting of the lunar crescent on a date when none of the official committees could see it.
....
Before AH 1420 (before 18 April 1999), if the moon's age at sunset in Riyadh was at least 12 hours, then the day ending at that sunset was the first day of the month. This often caused the Saudis to celebrate holy days one or even two days before other predominantly Muslim countries, including the dates for the Hajj, which can only be dated using Saudi dates because it is performed in Mecca.

For AH 1420–22, if moonset occurred after sunset at Mecca, then the day beginning at that sunset was the first day of a Saudi month, essentially the same rule used by Malaysia, Indonesia, and others (except for the location from which the hilal was observed).

I'd hazard a guess that Mo wasn't quite so enlightened. According to reports he, metaphorically speaking, crapped his pants when he experienced a Solar eclipse.

This diagram is completely wrong.  The moon never goes "backwards" in it's orbit around the Sun.   It goes backwards in it's orbit around Earth, but it's velocity is much lower than the Earth.  The Moon moves about 1 kilometer per second relative to the Earth and the Earth relative to the Sun about 30 kilometer per second.

The Moon has an elliptical orbit around the Sun, then with a velocity relative to the Sun of 29 - 31 kilometers per second.  

This link shows why the drawing is in error, and what the correct path is like.

http://www.wired.com/2012/12/does-the-moon-orbit-the-sun-or-the-earth/

No, I am not demanding to "stfu" and listen to all their "miracles"; only a little bit of respect of the other opinions, and I know some people can't agree in something ... this is normal, but I also think that there are a lot of way to reply.


The photo is real ;), check the article of the various online newspapers .

@Spendulus: Why bumping post which is answered and discussed earlier? If you have any questions, ask it rather than spreading doubts.

I don't respect opinion that is doggedly maintained in the face of objectively reasoned facts which contradict said opinion.

I also don't respect intellectual dishonesty or logical fallacies.

You will see that I generally challenge the content of the post, not the poster, except when the poster continues to ignore the facts they are being presented with and simply repeats the same fallacious reasoning they started the discussion with.

@Zakir, by the way, don't think we can't see how you keep trying to avoid the facts of the posts concerned so you can complain about how they are being reposted.

Pro-tip: Try actually responding to the content of the challenge to your claims, instead of pretending like you already did.

I'd guess he had sort of the common man's understanding of eclipses, that they were awesome and important events in the Heavens.  Maybe that some wise men could predict them.  Translated in the mindset of that time to "God spoke to the wise men."

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran#Stars_are_Missiles_Shot_at_Devils

I think the biggest miracle with the Quran is people actually believe it. Though you can same the same with any other religion really.

It's okay to spread doubt, where doubt should exist.  This is the nature of critical examination of a subject.
 
I have not seen any evidence here from the Koran of a level of knowledge of astrology higher than a common man might have had from looking at the skies.  I have seen zero knowledge of astronomy in the modern sense.

These claims have been made, but they are not supportable.

The Koran does not have amazing miraculous revelations about astronomy.

Thanks for the tip. It will be helpful if you can direct me to the "challenges".


Muhammad(PBUH) didn't said it and it isn't mentioned in Qur'an too.

You know we are shooting through space which has no scale (both sides infinite if considered).

We are nor small or big, we are just present.

INFINITY.

Sad to see the limitations set upon yourselves, regardless of what religion or book.

Qur'an came to us a long time ago. Even things in Qur'an was found recently(in the past 400 years or so). A common man can see it easily now because he studies it in School. :)

No, we have much written material from the 7th century, and before and after it.  We have the Greek works on science, nature and the cosmos. 

I don't know about all theories of that time but some of them is already proved to be false like the system cryptodevil mentioned.

So everything is wrong except whats in the Qur'an?

Even a child could tell you that it takes an enormous amount of force to get into space. Simply by trying to throw a rock up to the moon, something as infantile as that, would result in acknowledging that the only way to make your stone go far enough would require a tremendous amount of force, far beyond that which you can give it.

See? A child's logic would come up with with the same thing. What's so miraculous about that?

This is not a "miracle", do you know the meaning of the that word?

1. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God.
2. One that excites admiring awe; a wonderful or amazing event, act, person, or thing. See Synonyms at wonder.
3. A miracle play.

Miracle 3#

The Pairs in Creation

"Glory be to Him Who created all the pairs: from what the earth produces and from themselves and from things unknown to them." (The Qur'an, 36:36)

http://s1.postimg.org/dr3rru79r/37_Prof_Paul_Dirac.jpg

Although the concept of ''pair'' or "couple" commonly stands for male and female, the statement of ''from things unknown to them'' has wider implications. Today, one of the implications of the verse has been revealed. The British scientist Paul Dirac, who proposed that matter is created in pairs, was awarded the Nobel Prize for physics in 1933. This discovery, called ''parité'', maintains that matter is paired with its opposite: anti-matter. Anti-matter carries the opposite properties to matter. For instance, as opposed to matter, the electron of anti-matter is positively charged and its protons are negatively charged. This fact is stated in a scientific source in this way:

"...every particle has its antiparticle of opposite charge… …and the uncertainty relation tells us that pair creation and pair annihilation happen in the vacuum at all times, in all places."8

Did I say that? I said "some".


See? You are telling this because it is wildly-known now. As I have mentioned, at that time these things weren't doscovered. Now kids study in school and you are thinking same as the current knowledge was same at that time.


Both first and second definition fits here. Don't think the world 1,400 years ago was same as of now. :)

No school studying needed. Cavemen would have had a go at throwing rocks up to the Moon and they, too, would have figured it clearly was going to take far more force to get a stone up there than they had.

No miracle. Pointing out the obvious is not miraculous.

The point In this is that Do you Know It before It was Discovered By someone? In the Quran It was Written 1400 years Ago. Yes! Every childeren Knows It but after the Discovery, Am I right? @ cryptodevil, Now your Turn

Why was Gravitational Force discovered in 1697 and that too because of an apple? Why didn't people knew about it earlier or even great scientist like Newton think earlier about it?

You want to somehow proove this is false and it isn't a miracle, no matter how it is. Even pointless things like above will be given for it.

Now you are just being willful again. No, you are not right, you have simply decided you are right and then repeated your assumption that only long after that quote was written did mankind figure out that it was *real* hard to get stuff to go up into the sky and stay there.

In actual fact, long *before* that quote, man would have tried flinging stuff up into the sky, only to see it fall back down again. It doesn't take education, only testing by doing, to show that the more force you put behind the throw, the further it went, but it never seemed to go far enough to get up into 'the heavens'. So, eventually, even the most dim-witted of bronze-age goat-herders would have understood that fact, way before that 'miraculous' quote appeared.

The scientific Theory of Gravity is a whole lot different from the general understanding that stuff doesn't stay up in the air on its own.

the blindness is real with this one.

Yes it came to "us" a long time ago, in fact most the stolen content come from this book , the Christians used the Jewish scripture and the Muslims just continued on that and stole from the Christian and Jewish books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament

Wow such a dishonest post.

The science about how gravity works was only disected at that time. People knew before then that you are stuck to planet earth, they just did not know exactly why.

Because a force to pull down is there. You missed this. This is why it is a miracle as Gravitational Force was discovered later.

LoL , the only miracle in this thread is you Muhammed Zakir.

The fact that you have managed to survive this long and not run into someone who convinced you to hand them your kidney,liver or heart in the name of the prophet Mohammed - Peace be not upon him.

Daily I realise just how frustrated Christopher Hitchens must have been throughout his life dealing with imbecile non-argumentative gherkins like yourself.

Actually you say miracle number 3 but you're going to mess up the flow of existing rebuttals in the series:


Let me just stop you there a sec because, indeed, some of your Muslim scholars believe the actual quote to be: "“Glory be to Him Who created all the sexual pairs, of that which the earth groweth, and of themselves, and of that which they know not!”

So, you know, this whole idea of your 'miraculous' book kinda falls apart if it can't even communicate sufficiently to be unambiguous in definition.

But, anyhoo, let's look at this next bit, right alongside that discarded crowbar you left behind:

Do you even see what you are guilty of there? Taking something rather vague which was said previously and deciding that it *must* refer to something specific known in the present. That's the same technique 'astrologers' and other scammers use.

Wrong. Prove it if you say yes.


Nope. It was 1400 years ago. People didn't even thought about going to Space and also here "tremendous force" explains about it. That is a miracle. Even if people thought you are stickies to earth, they didn't even think about flight and how much force is needed etc...

lmfao.

Wrong again, there is mass text about Indian history of flying objects. They knew about the concept of flight for thousands of years, just not how to achieve it.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vimanas/esp_vimanas_4.htm

Please try again.

PS. if you are too lazy to look at the link: "The ancient Indian epics go into considerable detail about aerial warfare over 10,000 years ago."

Nowhere in Qur'an or Hadiths says it and nobody can convince me such lie.

My post did not reflect cookierun content just how gullable you are and would probably hand over your crap to anyone who asks for it in the name of the "profit"

So we can keep track of the 'miracles'  :D


Pretty much every monotheistic religion claims their god created the Universe, so what makes you think your book saying your god 'did it' is a miracle?

Verdict: No miracle, just a repetition of every other super-god story.


The quotes concerned make no mention of the Sun being in a galactic orbit, merely that both the Moon and Sun are in an orbit which, given the widespread ignorance of the time, probably indicates the quote came from someone who thought the Sun went around the Earth.

Verdict: No miracle, especially the suggestion in the second quote that the Sun has a 'resting place' - Bizarre and absurd.


Even children of the time would know this simply from something as basic as trying to throw a stone at the Moon.

Verdict: No miracle, common knowledge even bronze-age goat-herders would have figured out.


Dispute over the exact phrasing of this quote amongst Islamic scholars themselves and, in any event, vague enough to disregard and certainly not specific enough to align with modern knowledge.

Verdict: No miracle, just another 'glory be to . . .' hand-wavy bit of reverse-engineering the 'facts' to fit your preconceived notions.

So, let's have it then, what's number 5 going to be?

It was prophet instead of profit, wasn't it? No, I wouldn't. Prophet has said not to do such things.

I believe it is a play on words Mr Zakir, in that your religion, like most, is primarily interested in earning a profit from the followers of their prophet.

It is a religious verse.


I explained earlier. You want to avoid it. Take a look.


You are avoiding "tremendous force"? You have anything to proove children/people knows this?


Perhaps, you should learn Arabic. Arabic is a bit different when translating unlike most languages. It is not a reverse engineering.

:o How can you say that? Muhammad(PBUH) didn't did things so that prophet could earn profit from followers. In fact, many things like "interest" was abolished. If it was for profit, such things shouldn't be abolished.

They damn sure did think about flight and how much force was needed.

I'll tell you why.

Birds roasted over a fire are tasty.  Your family will owe you big time if you bring them tasty birds.  If you could reliably get them you'd be more likely to get the girl you want to marry.  Tasty meals are very, very important.

Now to get them you need to hit them with your arrows.

No it is PROFIT, its not a typo but thanks for trying to correct me. Religions start and end at their base of activity, the center point. Do you have any idea how much money is being robbed from you and other muslims by the muslim elders ? Billions upon billions a year in donations. Same goes for the other religions.

Thus, you follow rediculous religions filled with "profits"

Interest for the common believer was removed and made illegal so that the common man cant get empowered.

Those in control get a constant flow of money from the fellow followers. It is a different take on the 99% vs the 1% , capitalism cloaked in a blanket of good will.

Perhaps you should learn science and engineering.

I dont think he needs to educate himself at all, clearly not his goal in life.

What I do think is that he should stop pointing at some miraculous facts while having absolutely no understanding of the subject.

No the cookierun is not a factual evidential peer reviewed unbiased document.

Mr Zakir I will leave you a brainteaser as I do with every other religion. When you or any family member get really sick, do you simply keep praying and waiting to get healed or do you go to the best hospital that you can afford to get proper care ? 99% of people wont think twice to to the hospital, where is your god now or is your god only right when it is convenient for you to say so ?

Before you claim the cookierun provided the science for the medicine today, let me stop you before you even try make that claim. No, the cookierun did not provide the medcine we have today, nothing, not even close, zilts. If they had such facts about our universe as you keep on claiming, why did it take us until the mid 20th century to have any clue about neuroscience. Does your god only provide unprovable science meanwhile ignoring human science ?

Photoshop?

http://www.crystalinks.com/Seti1AbydoCeiling.jpg

http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html

 :D

Thank you! I meant about theories and all. It was my mistake to say "think" there.


Nope. It was abolished for all. Not just common man.


I will try my best. :)

Yes, it does tell people to kill.

Stoning adulteresses.

Yes abolished for all was my whole point, are you really clueless or do you deliberately read things however you wish them to be ?

My point was, no interest allowed for everyone. The 99% simply give the 1% their donations. Vuala, now the 99% have no way to earn on their investments so they remain dirt fking poor , take a look at the 99% in the middle-east, literally dirt fucking poor.

I have always thought that Islam was a major cause of the incredible poverty and illiteracy in the middle-east, but never considered the ban on earning interest on investments as a cause.

Interesting concept - how would banning interest affect a culture?

If the rulers banned interest and inflated their currency, they'd be rich and the people would be dirt poor.

IM just Going To lock This thread: http://www.harunyahya.com/en/books/870/Miracles-Of-The-Qur%E2%80%99an/chapter/1847/Part-1---The-Scientific-Miracles-of-the-Quran-(1/3)

You People Can find here more Miracle that are mentioned in the Quran

Im locking it Because: I dont Want to go for religious Fitting Which i saw in last 100 comments.

Thanks