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Silk Road creator Ross Ulbricht is due to be sentenced in less than a week.  How much jail time do you think he will receive?  The mandatory minimum for his 'crime' is 20 years hard time.  He could spend the rest of his life behind bars, depending on the judge's discretion ..

whats the fucking mandatory minimum for all the fraud shit you pulled btw mr eddie?

Do you think or do you think he deserves? Since the first question doesn't really make sense here; that would be a question to law school students, not bitcoin enthusiasts. How would we know without a good knowledge of law?

So I'm going to answer the second;

Honestly I think 20 years is enough for this type of a crime. However, to discourage future criminals, I think a higher sentence is okay too.

whats the fucking mandatory minimum for all the fraud shit you pulled btw mr eddie?
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Stay on topic please. This thread concerns Ross Ulbricht, not me.

He did nothing wrong, he never handled drugs directly, he just acted as a medium for the crime to happen, the US government allows for hundreds of people to die each year, do we see Obama being thrown into jail?
but honestly, he is probably gonna get life in prison

That IS wrong.... it's like saying you never killed anyone, you just hired a murder to kill that person. You did nothing wrong.

Also, just because some criminals aren't caught, doesn't mean that no criminals should be caught. That's a logical fallcy.

He did nothing wrong, he made a website and allowed people to buy and sell items, it just turned out that most of these things were illegal, do you think that if he took silk road down that would put a dent in drug trafficking? there are tens of sites out there like silk road, if the real law breakers weren't on silkroad, they would be somewhere else, doing the same thing

Sigh. I already pointed out your logical fallacy in my other post. Do you think that if you put a single murder in jail, that would put a dent in homicides around the world? There are tens of murders in the world. If you caught one, the rest would be somewhere else, murdering people.

So let's not catch any of them. Right???? Man, think before you form an opinion.

I think they will throw the book at him and give the maximum penalty.  To make an example for others who might start a similar site.  Of course it won't make a difference, but that is what I think they will do.

Ok so bitcoin was used in all the transactions, should they track and throw Mr. Satoshi in Jail? Some motels across the United States are used as hubs for underaged prostitution, should these motel owners go to jail?
The real problem here is that they should go for the actual people that caused 6 confirmed overdose deaths, not Mr. Ulbricht


There are many more sites like silk road on the internet, for every 1 the authorities take down, 2 pop up

Stay on topic please. This thread concerns Ross Ulbricht, not me.
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scammer

Dude, think before you speak. Do you really not see the difference between Ross Ulbricht and Satoshi Nakamoto?

If the motel owners are willingly and knowingly facilitating underaged prostitution at his property, YES, he should go to jail.

He's the first of his kind. That makes him "example boy". Life in prison.

He's gonna be nailed to the fuckin wall. They are inevitable anyway, but darkmarkets are nightmarish for The Man. Anyone they can pull out from the shadows will be ravaged in public.

As for this 'free Ross' stuff, i could get behind that if silk road had been directly linking buyers to poppy and coca farmers and chemists. That would've made it a genuine step towards a better world. As it was it was largely just another outlet for scum and murderers.

When the authorities in the real word find something wrong, they attack the problems (the prostitutes and their pimps) but in the digital world, they take down anyone that they can hang on to, the guy didnt do anything wrong, he made a site, he didnt sell drugs, buy drugs or sell/buy anything illegal

>meanwhile, millions of non-violent people in prison for personal use drug possession.

That is against the law, they should go to jail, with drugs, they can switch from being non-violent to violent in a seccond

What Ross did was also against the law. See? By your logic, he is completely guilty.

It is impossible (by my logic) for one to do something in the digital space, dont the police have other people to arrest like murderers, rapists and serial killers? They are just wasting your tax dollars to take this guy down, he is not the king, he is just a pawn on the board

Max

he will be an example.

40-years-to-life in prison will be his sentence. They will make an example out of him.

20 years is the minimum, I'm sorry for him. He have to spent his rest time in jail.

He will die relatively soon for the "crime" of saving many lives that would have otherwise been snuffed by drug violence.

That's enough of a reason to put him in prison. If bitches can just get their drugs online and work regular jobs how is the local pimp ever supposed to be able to sell me some teenaged junkie pussy?

I think he will get max penalty as to set an example of the whole thing.

The U.S. government does not like it when someone get's in their business/way and doesn't work for them.

Wait...what happened to the appeal based on the crooked agents getting busted for blatant fraud, stealing, etc?

While I don't agree with the way he spoke and acted while in talks to kill a few people, I do agree with you that he also saved many lives from not getting jacked on a deal and killed to getting relevantly decent/clean gear.

OP the poor guy will get 30years to maximum sentence, here in the UK the 30 years he would have been out of prison for murder in that time. He still has the trail for other charges for hiring to murder, he will never feel freedom again  :-\

So much of the "evidence" against him was fruit of the poisonous tree, I wouldn't be surprised if he was framed for the fake hits by government agents taking control of his accounts and pulling his PGP secret key out from under him.

The worst violence happens further down the supply chain towards the roots. Silk Road did absolutely nothing to address that and by dint of its existence actively encouraged it.

It's the manufacturing and wholesale movement of the drugs where the majority of poor saps end up buying the farm.

I've known loads of people who buy drugs from their local dealer and not one ever had the slightest problem.

Your jolly nightclub coke deal is backed by a blockchain of suffering and blood.

I didn't vote. Even if all the counts were proven, he doesn't deserve more than 5 years in Jail. I mean, what will you give for murder, when a guy gets life for a non violent crime. This is completely ridicolous! What makes his crime so awful, that he deserves a life sentence? He didn't kill someone! Heck, he didn't even beat someone! All the "murder charges" were not part of the sentence, so what has he done to deserve a life in jail?

I read a wired article on the Silk Road Case waiting for part 3
But from part II there was also the planned murder of one of his associates who was caught by the police and then killed (staged of course) and that is aside from the drug issue so I doubt he will get a minimum if he does they could raise the planned murder from the coffin to put him in jail even longer.
My best guess is between 30 years to life.
With a chance at parole in 2025-2030

Related but different articles
http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/
http://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/

Probably, especially since this is the first of its kind. I think he'll get between 20-40 years. He'll appeal but if he's lucky he may even get a retrial because of all the shenanigans that went on with the corruption of the law enforcement officers.

Who was harmed that much, that he deserves a life sentence?

I think 20 years should be all that he will get. However, it is possible that the judge will sentence for a longer time but I can't see the benefit in that.

Since nobody has come forward and produced a connection to Ross, whereby Ross harmed anyone or damaged the property of anyone, Ross deserves whatever they give him, simply because he agreed with it in advance, by not requiring the harmed or injured party to step onto the stand, make the accusations against him directly, show how he did it, and be cross examined by Ross.

:)

Depends on the facts. If it's true that he attempted to hire people to kill others then I'd say he deserves life but only for that, not for setting the site up of facilitating the sale of narcotics. I think he's going to get a hefty sentence because of the various crimes he committed. He's essentially a drug kingpin whether he wants to admit it or not.

Yes, it depends on the facts. It also depends on the government following its rules for condemning him.

If Ross was indeed a perpetrator of some kind of illegal activity, government can do exactly as they are doing. In fact, government can make up the whole story if they want, and if they can get away with it. But there is only ONE thing that condemns Ross. It is his acceptance of the things that Government says.

If Ross were to NOT accept government, and were to get up and require government to bring a harmed or injured accuser forward, have the accuser get on the stand in court and make the charges verbally, and then show the connection that proved that Ross did the harm and injury, and have an impartial eye witness to the fact, only then could Ross be found guilty. Basic, standard American law.

Since Ross did not require any of these things, he is essentially agreeing with whatever government says. He deserves what he gets, because he is leaving it in the hands of government, rather than require to face his accuser and probably be set free.

:)

I have bolded the part that is going to be screamed in court and after on the news, Ross for bla bla bla 'controlling' x amount of millions worth of hardcore drugs you was the drug kingpin of the new kind in the cyber world and we have no choice but to give you the sentence of 50 years, so that is what I voted. Does he deserve it? Probably not he was just a young man out of his league wasn't he. Good luck Ross!

What the hell are you talking about? I think you live in a fantasy land. There doesn't have to be a 'physically harmed or injured accuser'. He broke the law in various ways and got caught and there's mountains of evidence against him, hence why he's fucked. Claiming some rambling nonsense about nobody being harmed wouldn't ever get him out of jail.

Drugs are bad. Hell I nearly fucked my life over with some of the shit I used to buy off SR. Without SR I would never have had access to any of it. Honestly I can trace back to where everything started going wrong - it was precisely when I discovered the Darknet. Am I going to pass the blame to someone else? No. I'm the idiot that didn't know better and actually ordered the things I ordered, nothing too heavy, but I slipped into a real bad place because of all the repercussions.

(I'm doing absolutely fine these days. Clean as a whistle, and never felt better!)

It's a very tough decision on how much I think they should blame Ross for. I do not think those 6 overdoses should hang over his head at all. He didn't sell the drugs to them nor does he even know who they are or what they ordered. At the end of the day it's your body, you should be allowed to whatever you want with it in the confides of your own home. You should also know your limits. It's another matter when addicts start affecting society by robbing/stealing for drugs. But still, not the dealers fault. Addicts need help not punishment.

However, Ross is guilty of a number of crimes though, crimes that he will be punished for. I just really hope for him that he doesn't get life. I think a life sentence is reserved for a very small portion of criminals. Which Ross does not belong to IMO. 20 years is mandatory minimum, but I think they will give him more than that.

That's just my 2 satoshis.

Neither Ross nor Silk Road is to blame for any of your troubles. If you don't know how to take care of yourself, then it is your problem. I had an account with SR for a long time. But I never ordered any of the "shit" from there. That said, SR had a lot of vendors who dealt with useful items, such as cash-on-mail and bullion.

Life in prison! It doesn't mean he deserves that though imho but we all know what will happen, will be made an example of and plastered everywhere to show the power of the state. Great like we didn't already know they have us by our balls. If I was judge he would be getting released or maybe if the pressure was to much minimum sentence whatever that maybe.

If you read the rest of the post instead of just the first sentence you'll see that he isn't blaming anyone but himself for his troubles.

I voted for life because of the whole paying to have people killed thing!

Thank you. Yes I had some genuine life problems at the time, and was prescribed medication by my doctor, to help with sleep. When I couldn't get any from my doctor I bought them off SR. They were totally legal (prescription) meds, albeit from a very illegal source. Never touched anything worse than a bit of weed otherwise.

Like I said - I'm all good these days. And yes I am an idiot, I learnt that the hard way ;)

This is a very grey area and I think those charges have been dropped since. It was pretty much a setup, apart from the fact he stated he has had other hits done 'for cheaper'. Read into the Carl Force case...

It may have been a set-up but pretty much all murder for hire prosecutions are. They have to have made the first move to hire a hitman and its when they do that law enforcement step in. What is unclear from the SR/DPR case is whether the corrupt undercover cops suggested the hitmen first to him. If they did that's entrapment. Regardless of that, it still looks bad on DPR because the intent was there.

Where's the zero years / abolish prison for non-violent offenders option?

Here's what I am talking about. Standard court law in America if one invokes it is:
1. There has to be an accuser; in Ross's case it is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Google the indictment;
2. There needs to be one who is accused; in this case it is Ross (maybe);
3. There needs to be an impartial witness;
4. There needs to be evidence.

If any of the above fails, there is no case. If a judgment is handed down anyway, it is a void judgment.

Regarding the above 4 points:
1. If Ross stands as a man, unrepresented in any way, his accuser must be a man who can take the oath or affirmation, get on the stand, and state how he was personally harmed or injured (injured means damage to property). In this case, the accuser, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, will be unable to take the oath or affirmation, get on the stand, and utter anything by voice. No case because of this.
2. It is obvious that Ross is the defendant. However, if Ross had stood as a man in court, and filed a claim in the same case, requiring his accuser (in this case THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA) to come forward and testify so that Ross could pay for any harm or injury done, Ross's claim would have to be heard first. Since THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA couldn't do any of these things (as explained in #1), because THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA isn't a man or a woman, Ross would be found innocent of any wrongdoing, and would have won the case.
3. Where in all of this was an impartial witness who saw Ross do any of the things the plaintiff, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, was claiming? There might have been evidence that a witness saw after the fact. But there was no witness that actually saw Ross do any of the wicked evil wrongdoings. Ross wins.
4. The evidence is insecure because all kinds of folks had opportunity to tamper with the evidence. Ross wins.

If Ross got up and stood present as a man without any form of representation whatsoever, not even representing himself, and if he said words to the effect that he did not understand any of the legal system and law, (thereby placing himself outside of it), and even if he said that he did those illegal things, but where is the man or woman claiming harm or injury, if no man or woman comes forward, Ross wins.

This is standard American law. The reason things seldom happen this way is, few people ever do it this way. If they did, they would win, except that the 4 elements at the beginning of this post were present:
1. Man/woman accuser actually had harm or injury;
2. Defendant;
3. Impartial witness (man/woman) who saw Ross do the harm or injury;
4. Secure evidence not tampered with.

If you don't believe this, see http://voidjudgments.com/ for the legal sites.

If you want to understand how this works, listen to the first video and the first 3 audios at the right side of http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html.

Then get your friends who have been sent to prison out, because of their void judgments.

:)

How old is he right now ? also do he still have the Bitcoins stored somewhere ? :o because if he is young and they give him only 20 years with the money still in his possession then i'd say it's a pretty good deal for him and he could get his life back when he come out  ::)

Dafuq :o I've seen last time a link here which lead to a link to an Interview of CNN with his parents ... when they talk about him , He looks like the most friendly guy on the planet ...

This is what sentence you think he will get not what you hope he will get.


Allegedly. And the charges were dropped so not relevant to this sentencing.

Well he did something no one else had done before and I kinda sympathise with him. I really hope he gets only 20 years. But what do I know, maybe he's a monster.

You can't judge by looks. This guy looks like a total pussy that couldn't harm a fly but he killed and ate 17 men over a 13 year span.

http://cp91279.biography.com/1000509261001/1000509261001_1115307976001_Bio-MB-Dahmer.jpg

I learned a lot on the standard American law just by reading your post. Are you an attorney or something? :)

--

If the United States of America, the accuser, couldn't stand in the court as a man, then there should be no case, right? Ross Ulbricht wins this case if ever, because it is already stated by the law. But what if the judge continue sentencing Ulbricht? Will it be voided because apparently, the accuser couldn't stand on the court and take the oath? Also, the witness part intrigues me. Who are the witnesses during the time Ulbricht ordered to kill 6 people? Man, this legal thing really amuses me.

EDIT: Sorry for the long quote. The whole quote interests me, and the whole point of the quote as well.

Indeed , so correct .
About my question , what's his age ? and also anyone of you guys know if he held some money ? :o If he have a brain wallet , I don't think he will remember it after 20 years or more :o

He's over 30 now but in his late 20s when he ran SR. I don't think anyone knows if he stashed some Bitcoin away. I assume he did and had it protected.

Maximum sentence to be made an example of. Then he has the other charges to face up to, it is not going to be his year  :'(

I'd say from 50 years to the life in prison...

I had to go with you that is exactly what I think. He will never be released, kind of unlucky where he decided to set up shop, some parts of the world he would be put of of his misery, other places he would not go to jail after paying out others ten to twenty years. Lets see what he gets.

True. My jaw hit the floor when I found out it was an American - on American soil that was running the show. I mean fuck, come on! Why didn't he relocate to a mansion in a country where he could be protected?!? He'd be the 21st century pablo escobar ftw.

He probably thought he was invulnerable like everyone else who gets caught. It does boggle the mind a bit. He should've done a runner a long, long time before.

Even if he'd shut it down, he must've been aware that law enforcement would be relentless in trying to catch him.

It's always the ones who break new ground who end up without the rewards and all the problems.

He shouldn't spend a second in jail...  The law is so criminal when looking at the constitution...  it is sickening.

A void judgment can be nullified any time by the one the judgment is against.

In the case of a corrupt judge, things are tricky. But here is the base. The judge is a man. If a man harms somebody, the person harmed has a right to compensation. Ross would have to bring a common law suit against the man who was playing judge. He can't bring it against the judge, because judges are protected. He would have to bring it against the man.

Listen to the Karl Lentz audios in the above link, and you will see the basics of how this is done. Don't try it yourself without getting a clear understanding, and without having a court-experienced paralegal friend with you in court. If you can get an attorney as a friend, who will advise you "under the table," all the better. But most attorneys will not do this because they might lose their license to practice. Money is better than justice.

:)

He should have put his bitcoins through a mixer at a minimum.

He will probably get life with no chance of parole IMO. He pleaded guilty to setting up the silk road, but innocent to running it. That innocent plea will be the thing that ensures he is never released.

Christ, you have no idea what you're talking about. I'll discuss the problems one by one.


I don't know what you mean by "standard court law in American." This is federal court. That's federal law, federal rules, federal procedure.


The entity prosecuting Ulbricht is the United States. This is correct.


Your "maybe" is incorrect. Ulbricht is indeed the named defendant in this case.

This is patently incorrect. Witnesses need not be "impartial." "Impartial" is not a legal term of art, so I'll assume you're giving it the colloquial meaning. The credibility of witnesses is for the trier of fact, in this case, a jury. Witnesses often have "stake" in a case, and juries evaluate that witness's credibility in light of their stake. For instance, many, many (most?) cases in federal courts and probably even more in state courts have only police officers as the witnesses in the case. Are they "impartial?" Not in any colloquial sense of the term I would give it. They are paid by the State to investigate crimes.


Correct. Evidence need not be direct, however, and can be circumstantial.


You are incorrect. See above. I also don't think you're using the term "void" correctly, but that's another matter. We don't really use "void" in criminal law. It's a term that's often used in contracts though.


Ulbrichted is represented by counsel. He is not "unrepresented in any way."


This is so wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

If the government chooses to call witnesses at the sentencing hearing, then yes, they must take an oath. But the government need not call witnesses, though it appears that they plan to, inasmuch as I can see that they have said as much in their recent filing.

The babble about the United States not being able to take an oath is the kind of crap I see from the sovereign citizen gold-flag fringe folks, and I need not address that bag of crazy further.


You are incorrect. Defendants in criminal cases in federal courts cannot file "claims" in a pending case.


This is your similar rubbish as above.


See above regarding witnesses and circumstantial evidence.


Mere opportunity to tamper with evidence is simply rank speculation. Ultimately, any evidence that the government ever possesses could be tampered with. If the government found drugs in Ulbricht's house and locked them in a locker pending trial, they could have been tampered with, but mere possibility is not evidence. That's speculation.


Ulbricht can be respresented by counsel, or he can represent himself. He cannot do neither.


This is incorrect.


This is incorrect.


Hmm. I should have read through this more thoroughly before responding, since you're clearly a crazy sovereign citizen type. The reason criminal defendants don't do what you suggest is that it's a sure way for them to lose their case, and probably be found in contempt to boot.



Persons should seek the advice of licensed counsel in dealing with their criminal matters, not bullshit on the internet.

I don't care about american laws or the american constitution. All I know is he enabled networks of drug and perhaps other harmful substances for trade around the world, that possibly harmed many families in the process. He definitely deserves to be punished.

Just because there are people or governments that have committed worse crimes than he has is not a reason to let him go unpunished. Two wrongs don't make a right, as they say.

You think all the Silk Road sellers were incapable of growing their own marijuana, poppies, coca, picking mushrooms that grow on lawns? LOL. Back when I was a drug warrior, I lived next to a guy who grew marijuana in a pot on his balcony. Even though it was in plain sight and pre-Prop 215, no law enforcement ever touched him.

It's not about what Ross agrees with. It's what his lawyer told him to do.
And you know why his lawyer told him to do that?
Because he was probably threatened to do so by "someone"....  ::)
Or he is a bad lawyer....

I don't know....
What do you think?

In this case his lawer was no help at all.

How his lawyer is going to help if all evidences leads to him :o I'd say he will take only 20 years

He's a lawyer not a miracle worker or magician. No lawyer would have been able to get Ross off his charges. He was caught red handed at his computer with a diary journal on how he created Silk Road. Gut was foolish. Had he not got caught red handed and managed to encrypt or destroy his laptop successfully he might have had a leg to stand on but he shouldn't have been operating it from the United States as well. He should have used his bitcoins and gone live in some exotic country that the US can't touch so even if it all went tits up he'd be safe or much more so than he was.

I agree i dont see what he did wrong, he should be let free and be offered a consulting role within gov or something if they do have any legitimate gripe however i've not read any.  This kinda power abuse stuff will continue until we change the system.  Makes me want to just go and take him via force tbh.

He might not be a miracle worker but he is definitely not a good lawyer IMO.
Apart from that, I doubt that there's any place in the world that the U.S. government agencies cannot touch - legally or otherwise  ;)

It's arguable what he did wrong but lol at getting a job at the government. From the leaked chat logs he did more than just facilitate their sale (which is a massive crime in the eyes of the USG) and whilst he may never have handled the drugs directly he did actually personally get involved in helping set up a few drug deals. There's also the money laundering and attempted hits as well..

Of course there are places. USA has lots of enemies and if the US doesn't have extradition treaties with that country then there's nothing much they can do. US LE agents can't even legally set foot in a country to arrest him because they'd be powerless so they need the help of that countries LE. Oh, and look at Edward Snowden. He's pretty safe and out of reach of the US.

I agree about the dumb idea to safe all files and logs. Without these, there would be no case. Like I already said: In Germany he would have got 5-7 years with these proven counts. With good behaviour he would have been out in 2/3 of the time.

There is something really wrong with the current US judiciary, if a man is punished with a life sentence, when the only wrongdoings were to gain a commission in a (at that time not even considered "money") digital currency for providing a web service where people can sell and buy anything. He didn't sell or touch any of the drugs and buyer like seller were responsable of their use of the service. Now if I find an entry of a child porn site at Google, is the CEO of Google responsible and can be accused for distributing CP?

Why should Ross be sentenced just like a mass murderer who was lucky to live in the right state?

Not entirely true. In fact, Ross was actually the first drug seller on there. He grew some Magic Mushrooms and used them to get the Silk Road going as detailed in his writings found on his computer.


Using a mixer doesn't matter much when you get caught redhanded with the wallets that contained hundreds of millions of dollars worth of btc.


He didn't harm any person or families as he didn't force anyone to buy drugs; they made that choice. It should be a fundemental human right for people to take or buy any drugs they wish and SR enable that which was a good thing. It's none of the state's business what drugs someone should be allowed to take and if a person is not harming anyone else by doing so then no crime was comitted.

But they need proof, not only some letters in his computer..

How much proof do you want? (not to mention him admitting it) There is mountains of evidence against him. Even the LE said the evidence they had and then found on his computer was as good as they ever could get. Open and shut case.

Still he didn't hurt anyone and shouldn't get a life sentence just because he sold drugs. The guy on my avatar surely is a candidate for a life sentence, but a guy like Ross? Cmon...

That's pretty ironic you would make that comparison. As far as I'm aware Manson didn't kill anyone either, just allegedly ordered or influenced others to do so, much like what allegedly Ross did.

Only that 6 people were really dead after beeing killed. There are no dead people in Ross' case.

That's besides the point. He still arranged the hits so his intent was clear even if it was a sting operation. As long as it wasn't entrapment then he's essentially attempted to have someone murdered of his own volition (though even if it was entrapment he still should have known better and was still willing to have someone killed to protect his interests).

I think the judge is going to make an example out of him, and give him more than a minimum jailtime. The guy deserves it, because he didnt care what was selling there, as long as he
made profits from it. He should get lifetime with hard labor imho.


My female friend (also a mother of a 4 yo girl) acted as a medium aswell , the deal was ~5 grams of weed, and she served 2 god damn years in jail. The girl lost her job, and probably any chance for a good future just because she was a medium for a 5 gram weed deal. I know the law is different per country, but just try to compare this case with Ross Ulbricht; they're gonna skin him alive, trust me

cheers

Hard to say. The judge is a white female and Ross is a middle class white kid and has done his groveling and saying sorry the other day so he might get a lighter sentence. I could see the 20 years being handed out. If he was a poor black or Mexican drug lord then I'm sure he'd go away for life. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Problem is: When you take LE out of the game, there would be no murder story. Even this murder wasn't intended by Ross at the start. It was his mentor Variety Jones ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=935434.0 ) , who convinced him to order the hit, after Ross wanted only his money back.
I agree with you in the point of his intentions at the time of his decision to actually "kill" people (if it was really proven it was him ---> Maryland indictment still to come ). He should get a bonus round for that one, like 5 extra years on top of 5 ys for the drug dealing. 10 years is a very long time in prison
If you have 6 people dead and someone is responsible: life (or even death sentence). If noone is killed: Give him a few years in a cell together with some tough guys and he will learn some important things about life in general, hrhrhr.

Not necessarily. If it was Variety Jones that suggested the murders and he still went ahead (unless VJ is LE). Even so, he still agreed to the hits and this is something he should have 100% been against especially given his so called libertarian principles. I also think the murder for hire charges will likely be dropped especially considering the corruption of the officers involved with setting them up.

Was any reason given for them dropping those charges? I never really caught that detail.

Probably corruption of the involved with it. Doubt they will have had time to go through what evidence was admissible or not, though I think I may have read the charges are still standing but in a different state so maybe he;ll face that trial some other time. Probably not given how the sting was set up.

Well he will for sure get the maximum that the brought judge can give him imho He has to be made an example of doesn't he or the second he is given minimum sentence the dark web will be flooded with wanna b king pins. what is 20 years when the potential to have earned millions and millions are at stake, the next dude should use his head and read up on different laws around the world and head to the most lenient of the countries. I vote 50 to life.

Sorry for picking on you, but a lot of people have problems with what constitutes "proof" and "evidence."

"Evidence" is a term of art. Evidence can be "direct evidence," or "circumstantial evidence." Let's say Defendant Dave is charged with murder, specifically killing Victim Valerie. Witness William sees Dave pick up a gun, aim it at Valerie, and shoot her. This is what we would call "direct" evidence.

Now, let's say William is in one room by himself, and the door is closed. He hears a gunshot coming from the other side of the door, and he opens it up, and sees Dave with a gun in hand, and Valerie on the floor, bleeding. This is what we might call "circumstantial" evidence.

You can use both direct and circumstantial evidence to "prove" a case, but there is no specific type of "proof" required for most types of criminal cases. Ulbricht's case is not one of these special cases.

***

Imagine further, that we have a missing person. It'll be Victim Victor. Victor has been missing for many days. Defendant Daisy walks into a police station, and says she'd like to speak to a police officer. She says that she strangled Dave, she buried him in a park, she brings the police to the park, and shows them Dave's body. Is that "proof"? Sure, it seems to be that a confession corroborated by some physical evidence is pretty good.

Imagine yet further that we have the same missing person. The police search Daisy's house and then find a letter. The letter says, "I strangled Dave, his body is buried in the park, over here." The cops go the park and find the body. Is that enough? Sure, I'd think so too.

This is just insane. Entire life destroyed for possessing just 5 grams of cannabis? Was she involved in selling weed for a profit? At least be happy that this incident didn't happened in Indonesia, Singapore or Saudi Arabia. Had this occurred in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, then the following would have been the end result.

http://217.218.67.233/photo/20140904/377672_saudi-beheading.jpg

USA is not too far away from the countries you named in terms of punishment.

like aaron schwartz he will be considered as an example to prevent future great silk road

know your facts. its a crime for raping and murdering his daughter and niece... nice way of spreading the FUD against the country and i suppose "Islam" was the target? as usual

I don't know WTF you are talking about.

In Saudi Arabia, possessing even minute amounts of soft drugs can get you the death penalty. So far this year (in 5 months), Saudi Arabia has beheaded close to 90 people, and most of them were given the death penalty for the possession of drugs.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/26/saudi-arabia-passes-execution-total-2014-88th-death

And I never mentioned Islam or anyone's name anywhere. Who is the guy who raped his daughter and niece?

Whatever his sentence,  I think the 'kingpin charge' will be overturned on appeal - eventually.  I wish Ross the best ..

the photo you produced was that of a man.


so its ok to have drugs then?

I doubt it. Why would they overturn it? He was caught redhanded.


He's probably referring to the crime of the person being beheaded in the image.

Hopeful crowd ... It was sad to see the man pleading. Makes me think though that that's the likely outcome. Sadly.

It's his last option. Anyone would swallow their pride and do it if they were in his situation. He's doing what he can to save himself life in prison or at least shave some of his jail time off - not sure how effective it will be though.

What else would the average human be expected to do?

That would not be the moment to start bellowing about his libertarian ideals. That's all over for him. The Man don't give a fuck anyway. 

Was he found guilty of facilitating murder for hire and people were actually killed?

The murder thing was never raised or charged. As far as I can remember one 'murder' was supposedly staged by law enforcement. Others were paid for but the police never found any evidence or trace of anything actually happening. It's rather easier to accept a load of money and pretend to kill someone than actually do it.

I think you hit the nail on the head. He was way too cocky in his own cleverness. I mean reading the Wired article of the FBI agent's account of events shows he was over confident. On the day of the arrest the agent realized too late he was walking right past Ross looking like a cop, carrying a laptop, and Ross didn't even notice him. I mean, come on.

"We're told we need safety; which is precious, yes,
but can a society that can enforce all its laws ever progress?

Hindsight shows that many figures guilty of "thought-crime"
turned out to be luminaries and heroes, before their time.
But if a surveillance state had reigned then in this form and design
Just think of all the progress we may've all been denied..."

-Juice Rap News

I still think the feds chose to bust his ass cause Ross was turning into a greedy pig upping the vendor fees yet again. lol

I picked 30... it maybe more than that though.

I imagine they will appeal it.

I'm sure they wont appeal, he has given up on fighting, he wrote a letter to the judge asking for as little time as possible

So ...

This is the procedural phase of a federal prosecution that we call sentencing. The defendant has been found guilty by a jury. The judge then sentences the defendant according to the now-advisory U.S. Sentencing Guidelines. During sentencing, the government and the defense make arguments to the judge tending to aggravate or mitigate the conduct that the defendant committed. It is only after a sentence has been handed down (judgment has been entered) that a defendant can appeal.

So, I fully expect the defendant, Ulbricht, to appeal. And simply because he is arguing for leniency at sentencing does not mean that he is no longer going to appeal. In fact, it is entirely in the normal course of things for a defendant who has lost his trial but still intends to appeal to argue as he has at sentencing.

It was an administrative hearing trial and jury. As you said, Ross can appeal.

Look at the 7th Amendment. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution:
Since the verdict can be appealed, it wasn't a common law verdict. The 7th Amendment says that common law jury verdicts can't be appealed.

Certainly the amount of money involved is more than $20. Ross needs to stand up any time during the appeal and require a common law court trial. Things change in common law. They aren't done the same as administrative. In common law, Ross could easily win.

:)

Do you think that someone should be beheaded for just possessing 5 grams of weed? I don't think so. Anyone should be free to use alcohol, drugs or tobacco. What I am doing with my body is nobody else's buisness. Honestly, I believe that the money which is currently being spent on the "war on drugs" should be spent elsewhere.

There were no actual murders because DPR paid for the hits but the 'hitmen' were undercover cops who then staged the photos of the murders to prove to DPR they did it. However, those same cops were also corrupt officers so the charges likely wont stick or be dropped but this doesn't change the fact that DPR ordered the hits and was seemingly ok with it once they'd happened.


Of course he will appeal. How has he given up fighting? The apology is the only thing he can do before his sentencing to try reduce the amount of time he gets. The appeal then comes after.

I obviously have no connection to him but I can't help but feel sorry for him.
Sure he was earning a shit load of money but he never actually handled any drugs himself.
He acted as an intermediary for dealers.
He provided a service that eliminated violence & gangs off the street.
If anything he was cleaning up the drug trade, cleaning up the streets.
He's ruined his life though & unfortunately he'll pay for it with a very, very long jail term.
Hopefully no longer than 20 years, people get out in less time for murder.
 

Not in America you don't. When on holiday somewhere like Norway or the Netherlands I would think nothing of pushing a granny off a cliff if she was spoiling my view. I wouldn't do that in the Grand Canyon. You don't want to get embroiled in the US 'justice' system.

It sucks for him but he took the risk and should've been well aware of what might happen. He should also have kept in mind how desperate the authorities would be to make an example of him.

Murder is a totally different thing.
Depending who has been murdered, it doesn't really get in their way of doing business.

But drugs is a serious thing.....
Do you know how much money they spend on the "war on drugs"?  ::)

The United States alone spends more than $15 billion every year, on its "war on drugs". That money would have been better spent elsewhere. For example, with that much money, every starving child in the world could be fed three times a day, for a complete year. Also, one million people, who are currently imprisoned (the vast majority of them being in the US), could be set free.

I know.
The war on drugs is a joke.
It always has been.
And the funny part is that more than 90% of drugs has been created by the CIA, or at least that's what I heard.

You continue to have no idea what you are talking about. This was not a "suit at common law," which is a civil suit, but rather a criminal trial.

Additionally, you utterly mangle the rule of the 7th amendment, which is that one cannot appeal a factual finding, but one can in a civil suit, appeal the law. Thus, if a judge instructs a civil jury incorrectly, and that jury renders a verdict, you can appeal the legal error of the jury instruction and get a new trial, even when that means overturning the jury's verdict.

I don't think you should just go by 'what you heard', especially without checking the facts. The claim that 90% of drugs have been created by the CIA is complete nonsense. The war on drugs is just about politics and money and being able to lock people up for using or selling them. Everyone knows the war cannot be won and its just a massive waste of money. They should admit defeat legalize drugs then the so called war on drugs will be ended over night.

He has been set up in the first place, I mean he was robbed and framed for a few bits. So if they have gone to the trouble of doing all of that why would they give him anything else other than maximum sentence. 50 years to life in prison which is not right but the world is far from right.

How so? What was he set up on? I think he was caught pretty much red-handed and he incriminated himself in many damning ways. The only thing he might have been set up on was the murder charges but I still think he was guilty of attempting to have them done regardless of who influenced him or suggested it to him in the first place.

Prisons around the world (perhaps with the exception of those in countries such as Norway and Sweden) can be extremely dangerous for common people. I don't think that Ross Ulbricht will survive more than a month in prison. The bankers will eliminate him, using whatever means possible. So the length of his sentence hardly matters.

Lolwtf? Why would the bankers want him killed? He's meaningless to them. He's not going to get killed in prison.

He won't get killed but he will find a boyfriend and be able to goatse in no time. lol

If I was going to be in prison for 20-40 years I'd want a boyfriend haha. Will help pass the time at least. I doubt he's going to get locked up with gangbangers any way. He'll probably be in a prison for white collar criminals and nonces.

Yeah, he is even teaching yoga and math to his new friends.

If they are going to make an example of him, they are going to place him with terrorists and murderers to deter anyone from doing what he did

the problem is.  is that nobody *HAD* to die. 

if the gunman *knew* Jesus Christ he would have just simply taken the money and not killed anyone.  but because of this bozo this guy gets death for killing him surreptitiously via a third person.

What are you talking about? he isnt being charged for the alleged murders

You know this, that must have been the easiest scam ever by the friendly chemist, yep I think it was him all the way from start to finish reading the messages. All to scripted, anyway that aside the judge will deal with the facts before him not conspiracy and the judge is no doubt ready and waiting to give him max sentence. 50+ years this sentence.

You completely disregard the fact that, if a defendant in an administrative hearing is asked anything, even to plead, that all he need do is require pen and paper to write his answer, and then notice the court on paper that he wishes his accuser to appear and present, under oath, on the stand, the harm or injury that the defendant did to him, so that he, the defendant, can pay his accuser what he owes him. This effectively throws the whole case into common law, where the rules are different than the administrative side.

:)

EDIT: The things you say about the 7th Amendment, are administrative law understandings. Once the case goes into the common law of the people, this understanding is no longer relevant, because it is no longer administrative law that is involved.

You continue to have no idea what you are talking about.

This is not an "administrative law hearing," or "administrative law." Administrative law is a large body of law generally referring to Article I and Article II tribunals, rulemaking, etc., etc. This is a criminal trial in an Article III Court, and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

It's sad that you're peddling this sovereign citizen shit to people who might be ignorant and not know enough and actually follow this crap.

Everybody found guilty of the "kingpin" charge ends up in ADX Florence or other supermax type prison, plus they will want to keep him from talking to the media and getting any more attention. His new tier mates will be the Unabomber and imprisoned spies like Robert Hanssen.

Since when are Article III courts not administrative? Government can do anything that they want under administrative. Anybody that wants to be accused, and convicted or freed under administrative is welcome.

When folks opt into common law courts, they get to face their accuser. If he doesn't appear and take the stand, the defendant wins. If the guy looks guilty, from the accuser and the witness and the evidence, then the jury does what it wants, up to and including finding him innocent even if he is guilty, AND judging the legality of the law... whether or not it should continue to exist, and even determining the sentence.

It isn't your fault that you don't know this. Standard legal studies are directed towards administrative process. That's essentially all attorneys are trained in. And to really jumble things up, the courts have administratively decided to call the court cases common law. This is entirely administrative. It is NOT the common law of the people.

You can get an idea here http://voidjudgments.com/ as to what common law is really about.

:)

EDIT: Big business, the banking industry, and the elected politicians generally don't want the people to know this. If the people find out how easy it is to remain free under common law, and still do the things that they want, it would change the whole face of America. The government would shrink to almost nothing.

If you go to trial in the federal system, you get the max sentence if you lose.

I'm pretty sure it's written in the federal guidelines somewhere.


His sentence length will automatically put him at a max security prison with just those kinds of people.  He can work his way down to a medium in a year or two probably but he will never be in a minimum security with white collar criminals untill he has 10 years or less on his sentence (assuming he doesnt get life)

If he is actually sent to the ADX Florence, then it will be good for him. Although he will be locked up 23 hours a day, he will be under constant surveillance and will not have to face attacks from murderers and rapists. On the otherhand, imagine what will happen, if he is sent to the Louisiana State Penitentiary (Angola).  ;D

I've just been praying for him and his whole family all night.

I think the Undercover doing what he did is going to fuck the case up for the FEDS in the end.

That should help. 

Prayer - the last refuge of a moron. 

Fuck yourself.

I got a lot of free time and it isn't going to hurt anything.  ::)

I kind of doubt it.
Ross will get his penalty no matter what.
The undercover cop will get his.
At least that is what I think.

i voted for max all life in a jail and this kind of sanction will be an example for other and will be the justice in real meaning.

I just read his letter to the judge today asking to give him his old age. I dont think the letter will help its a real shame.  Seeing as the attempted murder charges weren't brought against him in court officially i think he should never have gone to prision.

"Fuck yourself"

 What religion are you anyway? ROFL

Why pray for a criminal anyway. If you got the time, pray for me to get rich.

Jesus says that the people in prison will be released, the captives set free. So you don't have to pray for them. Pray for the other people. Jesus doesn't talk about releasing any of the others.

 ;D

Because criminals need it.

Sure I'll pray you work hard and make something that changes the world for the better. If you can do that you'll probably get rich. If you are expecting some spaghetti monster in the sky to magically hand deliver you cash because I spoke to myself I dunno what to tell ya :D! 

I'm Christian, but I don't think you need to be religious to pray and I doubt I catch to much grief for telling some little fgt to go fuck himself. :)

Ok silly athiest fgts let's stay on the task at hand! When is his sentencing?

"Silly atheist faggots" I was raised a southern baptist but I like your brand of Christianity. Maybe I'll convert. LOL

His sentencing is today at 1800 UTC.

Just be sure to give your 10%!  We can donate to that guy who wants to be rich, so we can buy his faith.  ::)  ;D

It's REALLY important! *says sarcastically*

(Raised southern Methodist here.)

Tyvm for the time.

Him being a criminal only in the eyes of a US gov.  If there asn't so much corruption going on perhaps we could take some of these judgements semi serious.

Although I believe praying is a waste of time and dangerous - just as speaking alone is - Ross is not a criminal. If you want to get rich then perhaps you could do like him and offer freedom to thousands of people worldwide.
Karpeles, steals hundreds of thousands of BTC: Free, no fine, nothing
Ross, offers freedom to people: Life in prison

It's sad to see people in this thread bashing him. Witch hunt at its finest.

I think the judge is going to give him life in prison. There might be a chance that he gets 50 years. The judge is going to be under a lot of pressure to make an example out of this man. Regardless of if he only gets 20 years in this case, he still has another case in Maryland. I think he serves out his natural life in prison. Sad world we live in but the United States is the land of prisons. We love to throw people in jail and throw away the key. Kind of sucks there is no parole for federal prison. They abolished that in the late 80's.

He's a criminal in the eyes of the law. Money laundering, facilitating the sale of drugs and ordering hits. All acts of criminality.


That is life. Life sentences don't usually mean you'll stay in prison till you die but a 50 year sentance will take him to 80 something which I doubt he'll live that long cooked up in prison.

What time is the trial? It's today, right?


It's funny that you say it's a witch hunt again Ross but yet you're perfectly fine having one for Mark. Where's the evidence Mark had anything to do with the money going missing? It could have absolutely nothing to do with him for all you know. Whereas there's a lot of evidence against Ross. A lot of people feel betrayed by him because he was essentially a phoney freedom fighter. You can't claim to be a libertarian when you try bump off people just to try protect your multi million dollar business.

so much good and wrong so much religions,

How about we leave each other alone and let druggies be druggies.

do we really have to navigate people their whole life?  Laws are made by man to allow man to break them is that not the reason man make laws they are not to keep order they are meant to temp us.


sentence a man to prison for x amount of years while many more are roaming the land none of this makes any difference at the end of the road, we need a better solution.


how about instead of building monumental buildings to house these individuals why not kill them off?  wait is that not moral?

how about any little crime whether it be stealing to murder why not sentence them to death if found guilty why keep feeding and housing them? for what, because killing a human is not the norm?

or maybe if we build a world such as that there would be more black markets more rebels and more killings...


why are all of you giving ideas of anything it does not matter what you have to say regardless if he killed any one by his own hands or by his own money.   you are not law makers likely all of you are law breakers yet you assume you can have a say to a mans fate.

The trial has occurred. The sentencing is today at 1 PM. There was a scheduled Fatico hearing at 9 AM, but I believe that was submitted on the papers. The docket does not reflect any changes since this morning.

Whoops, yeah, I meant sentencing. Is that 1pm New York Time?

My bet is 50 years, goverment will make example of him :|

today is judgment day for poor Ross!  I am guessing 30 years .. we will know very soon

Yes.

he should have not used his real name when running a drug site obviously

Life sentence. http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/29/8687583/prison-sentence-ross-ulbricht-guilty-silk-road-dread-pirate-roberts

aka "commit suicide you libertarian bitcoin bastard"

We called that one.

I knew they were going to give him life. They wanted to make an example out of him. If this was a state charge he might have gotten a lesser sentence. The feds don't like to mess around to much. I am not sure why the U.S. likes to send so many people to jail and forever. He better hope for a presidential pardon later in life or something.

He just can't give up. That's really key at this point.

That's what I was thinking, but I'll bet that no future USA president would touch this case.
This will only happen if evidence comes out that he truly isn't DPR and they make an HBO documentary about him. Lol.

He'll give up after his retrial, or denial of one. I can't blame him to be honest. If he's locked up for life without the hope of parole what's the point? The sentence seems harsh especially considering the murder for hire charges were dropped or not included in this one.

So how about Blake Benthall now?

Life sentence too?

I doubt it. He will likely pursue his appeal to the 2nd Circuit.

More than likely unless the prosecutor wants to give the guy a deal. If they offer anything like 20 years or so I would jump on the offer. But I don't know if the prosecutor is going to offer any deals. I think they want to make these guys an example.

The decision was life in prison after all saw it on Al Jazeera
It is likely just a matter of time until a few documentaries are made on this.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/5/29/silk-road-ross-ulbricht.html

Probably. One thing I know is he's probably crying in his jail cell now. I was wondering what was going to happen to Blake yesterday as the media seems to have completely died off around him. Maybe it'll pick back up again now Ross has been sentenced. Does anyone know when Blake's trial is set for?


A documentary has already been made and is airing on TV sometime soon IO believe. It's called Deep Web by Alex Winter.

Most of us knew this was going to happen.
They wanted to make an example of him.
And of course they did.

I thought I heard that Blake was out of jail.

There is absolutely ZERO percent chance for a presidential pardon, if Hillary Clinton or Jeb Bush becomes the POTUS. If she can, Hillary will try to kill Ross inside the prison, just like she eliminated her rivals such as Vince Foster. But I can see a very small chance of a pardon, in case Rand Paul becomes the POTUS.

Life?  That's bullishit.   Why the fuck aren't a good portion of the CIA in prison?  It's well proven they're the biggest drug dealers on the planet.

Why would he be out of jail already? I'm not sure if it'll go to trial though since he owned up to everything when caught unlike Ross. Maybe that will work in his favor but he'll still likely get a harsh sentence to further prove a point. I have no idea when his sentencing is but I'd like to know myself.

Is drug dealing worse than cold blooded murder? People like OJ Simpson and Oscar Pistorius have avoided any jail term at all, despite murdering innocent people. NATO bombed schools and kindergartens in 1999 (Serbia) and killed thousands of people. But no one were punished for that act. So it is not about drug dealing or money laundering. Ross was given LWOP because he dared to oppose the system.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3312868/

I believe it's actually on TV in the US today. I'm sure it will be available to download from all your favorite warez sites by tomorrow.



Eh? didn't Oscar Pistrious get five years in jail? A light sentence for the crime he committed but he's still in jail as far as I'm aware.

Oh... got my facts wrong. Oscar Pistrious is currently in jail, but he will be out in just three months time.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-wants-work-disadvantaged-5669679


Honestly, I thought that he'll never go to prison, as he has got "contacts" higher up. So it is nice to see him serving at least a part of his prison sentence (although it is only for a 10 months).

wanted to BTCump this old thread again as there was a tweet from Ross Ulbricht yesterday telling us that it is now exactly 3000 days in prison :P

https://i.ibb.co/8Xp41HW/58753172.png
https://twitter.com/RealRossU/status/1471896472010514437 (https://twitter.com/RealRossU/status/1471896472010514437)

2 more years to go(?)

Keep bumping.