Bitcoin Forum

Hey guys,

You've probably seen this topic already. I've been advised to make my own scam accusation thread.

I'll try to TLDR this as much as possible.

My account MurderousKirk (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=182223) (Developer of Swing (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.0)) was stolen while I was inactive. The thief managed to sell it to Altcoin4Life (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=345352) for 0.13 BTC as collateral in a scam loan (which he has since defaulted on). This happened as a result of Altcoin4Life not requesting a proper signed message for the account being used as collateral.

The only lead we have on the thief is:


Here is proof that I own MuderousKirk


I initially refused to provide a signed message to Altcoin4Life due to a misunderstanding on my part. I thought theymos used blank signed messages for account recovery, and that this was what Altcoin4Life was requesting. I saw this as a security risk and flat out refused till whywefight set me straight. This misunderstanding caused a lot of stress and tension between Altcoin4Life and I. I believe it's part of the reason he has yet to return the account.

So it's been proven that I'm the actual owner of the account.

After I provided proof Altcoin4Life decided not to return the account unless I purchased it from him to help cover his loss.


I have refused to buy my stolen account back. I have also publicly stated before his payment request that upon successful return of the account I will leave a positive review of his credibility, and tip him to help cover his loss if/when my btc portfolio grows from its current state of 0.01 btc. This is the only opportunity Altcoin4Life has to receive any money from me to help cover his loss.

Altcoin4Life up to this point has refused to return the account without payment.

Should any changes be made via MurderousKirk (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=182223), especially to the Swing altcoin thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.0) I want it to be made public that Altcoin4Life is currently responsible for any actions taken by MurderousKirk (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=182223), and will continue to be until I give a digital signature proving I have regained access.

I also want it to be made public that I do not think Altcoin4Life intentionally agreed to give a loan on a stolen account, nor do I think he has had any malicious intent (aside from telling me to buy my account from him).

Thanks.

Well i guess you should've been more active then since it was a dev account. Since no one was informed that the account was stolen/hacked/etc, Altcoin4Life had every right to do whatever he wants with the account. Being careless on your end shouldn't cause damages to others. He's only trying to recover what he had lost.


I dont think this is fair either. Whoever owns MurderousKirk would be responsible for any actions made.

I believe there was warning rep on the account and users warned him before he made the loan. He said he didn't see the rep on the account. I think it was added shortly before he sent the loan. He did however see users making warning posts in his threads.

I guess I should also point out it was only a period of 14 days that I was inactive on bitcointalk. I was however active in my slack group.


So that would be Altcoin4Life at this point in time. He is the only one with access.

Well i hope you guys settle this issue by coming up with some terms or something via pm instead of having a ton of threads open here. Theymos will never recover it, so your only option is to speak with Altcoin4Life

I'd prefer to keep things public at this point.

I've made this thread to consolidate his 3 into 1 place and have a clean post to include as reference in rep reports.

If Altcoin4Life is willing to continue discussions he can post here. If not so be it.


I'd also like to point out that being careless on his end doesn't transfer his lost btc to my debt. I'm only trying to recover what I've lost.

Like I said, I intend to tip him as I can if the account is recovered by his kindness. I do not intend to buy it from him in order to have it returned. A: I can't afford it B: I feel this is not right. I believe this is fair and if he refuses and wants to keep my account that's his choice.


Side note. It's a shame how little faith everyone has in the account recovery of this forum. I've heard this over and over even before my account got stolen. I'd love to see Theymos start proving everyone wrong. To be frank I find it a bit ridiculous that tracking down the new account holder and paying him off is the most likely method of account recovery on a respectable money forum. :-\

Here's some posts from community members showing support. Thanks guys! You're awesome.  :)

Wow, have to be more careful. Wish your account was returned, but have no idea how it would be fair to both sides.

Nice useful post.

It seems to me both parties are at fault here.

Do we have any idea how the original account was hacked? Was it brute forced? Was it a keylogger/virus/malware on the original account holders computer? Was it a weak/common password?
If the password was real secure it would have been a virus/malware on the original account holders computer, this puts the blame more towards SwingDev IMHO. If the password was weak SwingDev should have made it more secure, especially on a Hero Member account.

As for Altcoins part in this, ALWAYS make sure you get a signed message from a stacked address, this is the ONLY way to make sure the user is actually the REAL account holder.

I think taking a 50/50 on the loss here is fair for both parties as it's very obvious they both made mistakes:

- SwingDev: hacked account so it obviously wasn't secure or your PC was infected
- Altcoins4Life: you should have made sure you got a signed message from a stacked address

Split it guys - 50/50, that's my advice.

Unless Theymos changed their mind this is how he thinks about a similar situation:


Not the "I'm not going to try to enforce it" part. You really do have to work it out with Altcoin4Life. And that (usually) means compromise.

Also for future reference these are the password changes on the account:


On a side note: is there any evidence that the account was hacked? Or are we to believe you on your word?

Altcoin4Life is at the losing end here, if Altcoin4Life keeps MurderousKirk account, he can't use it anyway since the account is already tagged or it's known that it's an account used for a loan scam. Altcoin4Life can't sell it as well for same reason. Maybe the best option here at least is just to return the account back to the rightful owner Swingdev and Swingdev at the very least give something in return to Altcoin4Life as a token of returning the hacked account. Token should not be at the rate of like buying back the account.

This is not the first time I've seen Altcoin4Life not doing proper due diligence. On the other hand I dislike the whole account collateral scheme so my opinion is obviously biased. I just don't see how either side here can claim any moral high ground. SwingDev - I'd suggest to suck it up and move on. It's just an account. It doesn't really have a tangible value unless you were planning to sell it or scam with it or something.

Altcoin4life has some issues indeed.First be was bragging about the signed messages.Once they were provided ,now he is whining to get paid in order to give the account back.@Altcoin4life,how difficult it is to understand this ? The rightful owner of the account is asking his account back,just give it already.Its because of your "GREED" you've lost your money,why project your losses on swingdev?Mexxer did mention ,not to trade with him and despite of that you took risks involved.Accept your mistake and move on.If you were so much concerned about your money,you shouldn't have given the loan in the first place.

@SwingDev: That account is useless anyway.No one is paying shit for it.Make a new account and continue.If you're planning to pay altcoin4life to get your own account back,please make sure you don't pay anything more than 0.001(that would cover up the transaction fees ).Jokes only. Get my point.Move on.

Hi Swing

Thanks for your comment, let me know if theymos does contact you and give you your account back.

I WILL BE MUCH MORE CAUTIOUS FROM NOW ON.

Cheers
Altcoin4life

Wow.. that's a shame Altcoin4life.

I'm going to update my rep review to negative since you are refusing to return it unless I buy from you. If you return the account I'll update it.

So the conclusion is that both of you failed to compromise. That is sad indeed; it means you both lost fully where you had a change to both reduce your losses.

I suggest locking the relevant topics as this issue seems over.

I offered to work towards helping him cover his loss as I was able to. I actually intented to ask him for a public addy where I could slowly try to cover his loss. I was hoping to try to cover it in full if I was able. Even my community was looking to help in this. I am unable to pay him up front and refusing to return the account unless I do is just greedy.

My offer is still open for now which i feel is generous and fair at this point. Please do not close this thread. A4l still has a chance to change his mind. If he does not within a reasonable amount of time I would like a place to publicly close and end my offer. Admins can lock the other threads If they want.

I'm not looking to have him hang my offer over my head a year from now.

At this point I've accepted the loss and plan to work on building the rep of this account since it seems I won't be able to correct murderouskirk.

Hi Swingdev

You still have not made it clear what you mean in terms of recovering some of the loss.

IF I DID HAND OVER THE ACCOUNT NOW... how would this loss be recovered?

How much would you actually pay?

How long would it take to pay this figure?

My payment address is 1HbPkpQiKgq48mCpL5BTxyVsHf4fjM8uop if you need it in the future.

You need to explain a bit more about this potential payment after i give the account.... please give details.

Let me know on this thread.

Also have you had any emails from theymos yet?

Thanks
Altcoin4life

So you bought an account without proof that it was not hacked (collateral/bought whatever you want to call it)? Altcoin4life is at fault here plain and simple. He did not do his due diligence so he should take the small loss as a lesson and move on.

I agree with Blazed and everyone else here.  I think it's a total asshole move on Altcoin4life's part to keep the account after he fucked up the due diligence.  It's the wrong thing to do and this forum remembers things like that.  By doing this, Altcoin4life is placing a very, very specific value on his integrity, and that value appears to be quite small.  Just sayin'.

Hi everyone

YES I AGREE MY DUE DILIGENCE WAS NOT UP TO STANDARD

But does Swingdev have no part to play in this? He did not make a scam accusation until 1 week after? Can Swingdev explain the delay?

Also how was it hacked in the first place? Bad password? Malware downloaded?
I really would like to know how the account got compromised in the first place.

Also i did not say i will NEVER give the account back, i wanted to know about these details first.

Finally can swingdev explain what he means that he will pay something back after i hand over the account?


Let me know swingdev

Thanks
Altcoin4life

I agree that AltCoin4Life failed to do due diligence. I'd call it careless.

I also would like to state that there has been 0 evidence that the account was actually hacked. Maybe I'm too cynical but it could be a possible scam. Emotionally I'd say in this instance it's not a scam but I have no evidence to back this up.

Assuming the account was hacked somehow then the victim of the hack has been careless. That leaves us with two parties being careless. Why should one party in that scenario take the full loss?

If it was a scam then the situation is much easier and the collateral would belong to AltCoin4Life.


Either way, I'm pretty much done with this issue by now. If no new facts are uncovered I still maintain the opinion that they should compromise.

I have changed my rating for neutral for now and hope you guys work something out then. To me, it sounded like you were unwilling to hand the account back without demanding full payment.

Hi Blazed

We are trying to sort this out now.

The issue was that he was refusing to give a signed message until recently, until whywefight persuaded him to give one.


Thanks
Altcoin4life

Hi

So if Swingdev is reading this, i would ask that you please answer my questions here.

1) Why the delay in reporting this hack? Why not open a scam accusation straight after?

2) When did you realise it was hacked? How do you think they hacked the account? What security where you using? was it phishing/malware/keylogger?

3) Please explain if i give the account back... you say there may be some sort of payment after ? Within what time frame? How much? do you mean if your swing coin increases in price you will give some of this profit to me?

4) How do you respond to abitnut's point that there is no proof that it was hacked? Is it true that you Swingdev and marcos the hacker could be the same person?

Anyway i hope we can FINALLY SORT THIS OUT as it has been dragging on TOO LONG.

Please post a reply on this thread, with your answers

Thanks
Altcoin4life

Dude.. please.. just end this. Return the account or don't. I've been waking up and going to sleep stressed about my account for almost two weeks now. Stop coming back with more repeat questions just decide and let me know.

You can say yes, you can say no. At this point I just want you to make up your mind and stop stringing me along like a bad date. Every time I start to get hopeful you come back with more delays and questions. I've honestly like 90% given up at this rate.

If these answers are really that important for me to answer over again so you can decide then fine. Here it is again.



Plus.. you know.. you asked me to keep the situation contained to PM's in your very first message to me.


I'm not going to bother digging for a quote on this one. You already know the answer to this. I've stated repeatedly I didn't realize till I made this account. Just check the date of my first post if you want to know.

I've also stated that I do not know how they got the account. I wish I did. Soon as I found out I went and blew my money on new HD's to remove as much lingering malware risk as possible. There were no signs that my machine has been infected. I've been going around adding 2fa to every email and other account possible along with changing passwords and have not found any trail yet. I wish I knew man


I feel I've made this pretty clear but I'll spell it out.

No time frame. Completely at my leisure as I manage to get more BTC. Right now I have 0.1 (Sorry that was an error. I just checked and I have .011 BTC) to trade with. The rest of my portfolio is invested in my altcoin Swing (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.0) and I'm extremely hesitant to sell on my holders at laughably low prices for an alt with less than 700k coins in circulation (https://i.imgur.com/FVyr3NQ.png) to get an account back when I can use this one just as easily. If I'm able to focus on swing and increase its value (which I'm obviously incentivised to do) you will end up with some BTC as thanks.

Though to be frank the longer this drags on and the more you stress me out the less generous and timely I'm starting to feel.

If you provide a unique bitcoin address everyone can see what gets sent your way. You'll end up with somewhere between 0 and 0.1612 BTC (0.16 being what you were owed and more than what you lost) with my reputation being reflected on by the amount and time of payment(s).

I'm not giving you a date so you can tell me I've "defaulted" on my own account or something.

The reality is I'm poor and you're asking me to cover much more than I have free in BTC or am willing to spend buying BTC.

You can take the offer and potentially get something next time my portfolio grows, or keep my account and get no BTC from me ever.

I mean he's correct there is no proof. I don't know how my account was taken all I know is you have it now and hunches as to how it was taken.


How about you try to put together a scam report that makes sense of why I would throw away three years worth of reputation building and the dev position of my own cryptocurrency (technically three if you count swaps, Greed -> Greed Evolved -> Swing) for only 0.13 BTC. Then I might dignify that accusation with a proper response.

And I honestly do apologize if I've been coming off as irritated and stressed at you during this situation. It's the result of me actually being pretty irritated and stressed at trying to get my dev account back for two weeks straight with literally zero word from the admins I've contacted for help and provided all the necessary proof to. Surely you can understand this. I've tried to be as polite and professional as I can muster in this situation.

Also I want to point out that (as explained in the ann) this was due to my misunderstanding and inexperience with using digital signatures to prove account ownership. I thought both were supposed to be blank messages and saw this as a giant security risk.

Whywefight helped me realize my misunderstanding and I promptly provided a signature on the 27th. Also posted in the ANN.

Now if you'll excuse me for a few hours I'm going to bed stressed and irritated about this for the 12th (13th?) day in a row.

You'll forgive us if we don't pity you for stressing out over something so inconsequential as a message board account. Your arrogance is not a good trait in this scenario, someone else has lost money because of your incompetence and you want to walk away for free. This is your fault at the end of the day, at the least you did not use a secure password on your account and at the worst you have stolen a loan.

There are two options that I can see: You pay altcoin half of what he lost to have the account returned or have the account returned for free, but receive a tsunami of negative rep making it useless.

I also missed a way .I am just giving you out an example so don't give up some bad comments after it.

Suppose if murderouskirk/swingdev had already set up a plan to get up with a default loan plan.Even if he gives up a signed message .there is also possibility that he thought that he would get a loan and later on default it and again can claim the account later by proving ownership.But the point is altcoin4life still lost his money that way and he succeded with his plans.

I am not swingdev/murderouskirk did this but it could be a scam attempt if seen from this angle

Also if he is holder of murderouskirk dont forget that is a hero member.Will it not be a foolish thing to make a scam accusatipn thread so many days after it came into light.also he didnt created it even after he messaged about itto altcoin4life

Also i think altcoin4life was a little bit loose.He should have checked the last posts of murderouskirk

We can't go into rush atm .i think we should wait for the admin message


Yeah those are right questions exactly what i would like to ask swingdev.He also didnt stated how he was hacked.He only mentioned he was hacked.Was that enough ??

That's what you get for not securing your account.

I don't blame alt coin for not giving it back, he should resell it to cover his losses.  You're irrelevant in this matter.

Am I the only one who recalls this whole forum was offline some six or eight months ago and all of us were sent an email stating we had to change our passwords upon restarting of the forum due to a bulk password hack attack?

Altcoin4life

You are handling stolen goods.  Think about the real world consequences of that crime.

SwingDev

I can only take you at your word your account was hacked.  If it transpires later on you loaned / sold / gave away / borrowed to another / left your account open at a cyber cafe and walked away / took a dive / or some other thing that wasn't having your account hacked, I won't be very impressed with you.

Hi Swingdev

OK i have made a decision. I WILL GIVE THE ACCOUNT BACK SUBJECT TO CONDITIONS.

THIS SITUATION HAS BEEN GOING ON FAR TOO LONG.

THEYMOS WILL PROBABLY TAKE A LONG TIME AS IT LOOKS LIKE HE IS NOT RESPONDING.


I WILL GIVE THE ACCOUNT BACK ON THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS

1) WHEN YOU ACTUALLY DO PAY SOMETHING IN THE FUTURE TO ME = YOU MAKE A POST ON THIS FORUM - STATING HOW MUCH YOU PAID - WITH PROOF TO MY ADDRESS 1HbPkpQiKgq48mCpL5BTxyVsHf4fjM8uop

ONCE YOU HAVE DONE THIS I WILL REPLY CONFIRMING TO EVERYONE I HAVE RECEIVED SOMETHING

2) YOU PM AND REQUEST THE FOLLOWING USERS TO REMOVE THEIR NEUTRAL AND NEGATIVE FEEDBACK, THEY SHOULD CONFIRM THEY WILL REMOVE THEIR FEEDBACK.

Blazed
suchmoon
Lutpin
SwingDev

THEY SHOULD IDEALLY POST ON THIS THREAD CONFIRMING THEY HAVE DELETED FEEDBACK.

ONLY ONCE HAVE THEY DONE THIS I WILL GIVE YOUR ACCOUNT BACK.

I WILL PM YOU AFTER, IF I DO NOT RETURN IT ASAP THEY CAN AGAIN LEAVE ME NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FOR GOING BACK ON MY WORD.


So then Swingdev, let me know if you agree and hopefully this issue will be solved.

Thanks
Altcoin4life

Will you stop with CAPS AND RED.

Don't drag me into your shit. My trust feedback is factual and there is no reason to remove it. It's not about your dispute with SwingDev, it's about your unsafe lending practices. Using it for bargaining with SwingDev leads me to trust you even less.

Hi suchmoon

Swingdev was refusing to provide a signed message until a few days ago, this was the main reason for this situation.

Now that he has given a signed message proving he is the owner and we have pmed each other, i have decided to give back the account.

I would please request you remove your feedback as i will now definitely give the account back to swingdev as he has given proof now.

Many Thanks
Altcoin4life

My neutral feedback for you has nothing to do with you giving (or not) the account back. It's factual and will stay. Don't use it for bargaining.

My negative feedback for murderouskirk may be revised to neutral after the original owner gets it back if I can be reasonably sure that actually happened. At this point in time the feedback is factual and is staying.

I have left the following negative trust for Altcoin4life


I am not sure I will remove if the account is returned.

Insults aside, the fact that you see a compromised developer account with download links and such being pushed to users of this forum as inconsequential says a lot about you. I don't care about the account this is not why I'm stressed. I'm stressed because I want to be sure the developer account doesn't start passing out infected links in the future.


I wouldn't be very impressed either but I didn't do those things. Somone managed to get my password or recover my account through other means. That's what happened.

---

Altcoin4Life, I have no power over other people's rep reports. I probably wont be able to get them to remove the rep on either of our accounts.

I will update my rep to positive on your account, I will give you the little BTC I have, and if I manage to get more BTC I will try to send more your way. I would have like to send half immediately upon return but unfortunately I don't have that much BTC atm.

To be frank at this point I'd be just as happy with you helping me link the old thread to a new one and destroying access to the account. My only concern in this matter is the security risk to my holders. If it was "something so inconsequential as a message board account" as fortify over here says I would have given up long ago.

Hi Swing

OK if you do find you can transfer some money that would be good in the future some time.

THERE IS NO SECURITY RISK AT ALL OF ME SENDING MALICIOUS LINKS TO ANY OF YOUR COIN HOLDERS ...0% RISK.... IMPOSSIBLE


DID YOU NOT NOTICE THAT I HAVE NOT EVEN LOGGED IN TO MURDEROUSKIRK ACCOUNT  SINCE 14 JANUARY??

MURDEROUSKIRK
Last Active:   14 January 2016, 22:45:01



OK please remove your feedback, i will also remove my negative as well.

Once you have done this let me know.


Let me know

Thanks
Altcoin4life

Done.

Also I just meant that it'd be at risk if you decided to sell it to recover your losses.

I did not mean to imply you would try to infect my community my apologies.

Once you return the account I will be sure to post positive rep from both SwingDev and MurderousKirk.

OK thanks

I HAVE NO INTENTION OF SELLING THIS ACCOUNT.

ALSO ONCE YOU GET YOUR ACCOUNT BACK YOU CAN CONTACT THE USERS THAT LEFT MURDEROUSKIRK NEG TRUST TO CONFIRM YOU HAVE GOT YOUR ACCOUNT BACK AND CAN THEY PLEASE REMOVE THEIR NEG TRUST THEY LEFT KIRK.

I WILL GIVE THE ACCOUNT BACK TO YOU, PLEASE WAIT.

ONCE YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE ACCOUNT PLEASE POST HERE AS WELL AS YOUR DEV THREAD CONFIRMING THE ACCOUNT HAS BEEN RETURNED TO YOU SO THAT THE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN YOUR SWINGCOIN WILL KNOW.

Thanks
Altcoin4life

murderouskirk, when you get your account back please post a signed message here in this thread.

Oh the fucking irony.  This is totally scammer logic--if you're too stupid to keep your stuff locked up, it's OK to steal it.  It's his account, period.  All the other whining and bargaining that Altcoin4life is doing is trying to put unwarranted blame on the scam-ee.  Swingdev might have been lax, but that's the extent of the blame on his end.

Hi Altcoin4life,

That's great!

When and where can I expect my account info?

Altcoin was only exacerbating the situation. In reality, there is no point of trying to sell it back to Swingdev. By returning the account, it shows good character and although 0.13 BTC is a lot of money that had been lost, it can be recoverable. It'll just make you look bad.

At least Altcoin4life is returning the account. Props to him for recognizing the situation.

glad to see altcoin4life is returning it.

I guess he went to bed. Not seeing anything from him yet. Checked my email and nothing from him or Theymos. No messages either.

He has also not removed the negative rep on this profile, which I don't care about, just pointing out that he said he would after I did and has since responded.

He must have gotten busy and forgot to remove it.

I don't think you understand what irony is. Let's just be clear here: There is no evidence that Swingdev/Murderouskirk was hacked. It would not be the first time that a priviledged member here went rogue and came up with a woe me story to extract some cash from people - many times he mentioned having no money. Scammer logic? How do you know he didn't sell the account and then decided to go back on it? They both share the blame.

Hey Altcoin4Life, are you willing to release the whisper logs with marcos012 / MurderousKirk intruder?

I'm curious what that conversation looked like.

---

Exactly how in the negative feedback trust that you have left on my wall have I scammed you out of 0.13 BTC ?

Or SwingDev , or suchmoon or Lutpin for that matter?


You Altcoin4life are a lying - we have never traded.

Well I got a neg too, even though my feedback for Altcoin4life was neutral and reflected on his/her lending practices, not the pissing match with SwingDev.


I guess the plan was to promise to return the account and get the feedback removed... but not necessarily actually return it. For now you're getting a neg for trust abuse. Note that this is still not about your account dispute but rather about your behavior and trustworthiness (or lack thereof) in general.

Here is the relevant PM:

Hi swingdev

Just to let you know i have removed the neg trust from your profile

Also to the others who have left me neg trust.....

I ACCEPT MY LENDING PRACTICES WHERE NOT UP TO STANDARD. THIS IS A GOOD REASON WHY II AM GIVING THE ACCOUNT BACK!


BUT YOU SHOULD BE PATIENT WHILE ME AND SWINGDEV TRY AND TALK AND SORT THIS ISSUE OUT.

INSTEAD YOU HAVE DECIDED TO LEAVE NEG TRUST AND YOU ARE THE ONE DOING TRUST ABUSE.

ALSO I KNOW THAT THE FEEDBACK SPAMMERS HAVE NOT LOST MONEY.... BUT THEY ARE SIMPLY LEAVING NEG TRUST WHILE THE ISSUE HAS NOT BEEN SOLVED.

Thanks

It is true that they have not lost money, but they put a risked amount of 0 BTC. You claim you had risked 0.13 BTC with suchmoon, which is not true (unless you were dealing in PMs).

Hi Altcoin4Life,

How / when do you want to proceed?

Thanks.

So you honestly left me 2 negative feedbacks for "FALSE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK SPAM",
whilst all I did is posting a neutral comment on your profile, regarding this issue?

You are more and more looking like a clown here, your feedback to me (and others) says "while me and the original owner of hacked account are trying to solve the issue"
but from all I read, you are stonewalling SwingDev here, and only delaying the positive resolution of this whole mess.

Just as a reminder of the situation: You did something stupid, you made a mistake! And as an answer for a comment I made about this on your profile page,
you leave me 2 negative feedbacks?! Claiming a lost amount of 0.13btc in one of them?

I honestly believed in a positive end of this, but seeing that you just went rouge with all your feedbacks, I might have to let this go, and leave you a neg after all (which I still didn't do, get your facts straight, you clown).

suchmoon , Lutpin and myself have now received a second negative trust - this time the trust doesn't carry a dollar value.



I left my first negative after you responded to this


by saying you would only return the account with conditions attached. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1343710.msg13716500#msg13716500


I was prepared to chage my negative to neutral after reading your private message to me


However as of today


You still haven't returned the account.  I may be fairly new to the business of spotting scammers.  But I sure can spot a temper tantrum when I see one.

You need, as a matter of urgency, to return the account as agreed.  If for no other reason than to save face.

This is bullshit behavior on the part of altcoin, and why am I not surprised here?  He's only in this for himself and only agreed to return this account after people started leaving him (-) trust.  And now he's retaliating.  Fuck that.

Now I have to go to work, so I won't be able to look in for another twelve or more hours now.  I hope this nonsense is resolved before I get back.

I guess .13BTC is worth more than the reputation that he is trying to build, kudos for him for prolonging this sob story.

It might take awhile for him to get those red marks removed and the only users who will be interested in his lending thread are the scammers.

seriously, ruining your reputation and money making service for .13BTC

I don't get what is there to "solve". Altcoin4life, just return the damn account, or not, and move on. Stop mucking around with negative trust and general butthurt, nobody cares.

i was in contact with altcoin4life during the whole "mess" and suggested to hand the account back.

on the other hand and i want to stress out as a lender: no evidence of a hack has been presented. i dont say something happend here like swing just went rouge. i found my self in a situation like this a few months ago and i did the right thing right away. i didnt receive a "thank you" or some "cover" because someone else made a mistake. i can understand both sides.

how about all of us cool down a bit and just wait instead of going crazy like 5yr olds?

just my 2 cents

mexxer warning him about the collateral/account right away, Altcoin not asking for a signed message from an address that wasn't only staked moments before, I could continue the list,
there were enough warnings/signs of some shady activity, may it be the account being sold or the account being hacked, it was pretty clear the account just changed hands.

We all posted neutral comments on Altcoin4Lifes profile (I even discussed with some other guy via PM whether or not it should be negative, and then opted for a neutral one instead),
and he started retaliating this with negative feedbacks, first one with a lied "risked amount" and then a second one that is just a straight utterly lie.
Hence, the only person currently acting like a 5y/o (one that previously has gotten his lolly taken away) is Altcoins4Life.

And dont misunderstand me, I can completely understand his pov. But I also think he made several mistakes going along with this current situation.

yeah, thats why i said, just lets wait a bit.

Hi. I just wanted to point out that I semi-agree with you guys and take no offence. I've seen plenty of clever scams and known figures going rogue as well. I appreciate you looking at the situation from all sides. Things are not always black and white and I like to think that judging by these typed of posts you guys are willing to look at the pros and cons from all perspectives. I can respect that.

I do however stand by my story confidently. I didn't sell it or anything and I'm not going rogue for .13 btc. I think even trying to piece together circumstantial speculative evidence against me would be tough. You'd be trying to piece together a false story, and when that's the case conflicting information on the accusations will always remain prevalent.

Sorry guys, I know everyone in this community everyone loves the drama of a known figure popping but that's not the scenario playing out this time.

Hoping to hear how you want to proceed soon Altcoin4Life. If you've changed your mind and want to keep the account fine. I just ask that you help me direct the old Swing thread to one actually controlled by me, that way I can request a lock on the old on and have a forwarding link in the ANN. I'd strongly prefer not to have my Swing thread locked unless there's a forwarding link. No forwarding link in the ANN is shit tier SEO and and would cause versioning problems in the future. If you don't return the account and wont help me update the ANN I'll be stuck keeping to an un-editable thread.. that would impact a lot more people than just me.

Though It felt like we came to an agreement that time. I am curious what the delay is. I'm still not seeing any emails from Theymos yet so I can safely assume you still have access to MurderousKirk yes?

If it's rep issues you're waiting on I've done all I can on that front. If you want people to remove your negative rep resulting from this situation you will have to deal with them directly, just as I will have to do with MurderousKirk.

The only other thing I can think of is if you're attempting to invest in Swing  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.0)to profit on the good news of a returned account and current low prices. If that's the case I suggest buying up the sell side and getting it done with. Large sales are uncommon at these rates.

i think you should get it back soon

Hi Swingdev

Thanks for your post.

THIS IS TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I WILL ONLY GIVE YOUR PASSWORD AND ACCOUNT BACK BY PM TO SWINGDEV ACCOUNT AS THIS IS THE ACCOUNT THAT PROVIDED THE SIGNED MESSAGE.

YOU REQUESTED I SHOULD EMAIL IT, BUT I AM NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

YOU WILL NOW RECEIVE THE ACCOUNT BACK BY PM TO SWINGDEV.


I agree with you that you have no control over others leaving me negative or even neutral trust.

TO THE USERS SAYING WHO LEFT ME BAD FEEDBACK AND SAID I LIED ABOUT THE AMOUNT LOST, YES THIS WAS A MISTAKE, I WAS SIMPLY REFERENCING THE AMOUNT I LOST ORIGINALLY TO MURDEROUSKIRK SCAM.  THIS WAS NOT MY INTENTION TO SAY THAT YOU PERSONALLY SCAMMED ME OF 0.13 BTC, I WILL REMOVE THIS REFERENCE.


FINALLY SWINGDEV, ONCE YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE PM, PLEASE CHANGE THE EMAIL AND THE PASSWORD (PLEASE CHOOSE A LONG SECURE NEW PASSWORD) OF MURDEROUSKIRK ACCOUNT ASAP.

FINALLY PLEASE MAKE A NEW SIGNED MESSAGE FROM THE ACCOUNT SAYING IT HAS BEEN RETURNED BACK TO THE ORIGINAL OWNER FROM ME, PLEASE POST IT HERE.

YOU WILL RECEIVE A PM WITHIN 24 HOURS. PLEASE POST HERE CONFIRMING ACCOUNT HAS BEEN GIVEN BACK.



Many Thanks
Altcoin4life

Ok. Ready when you are.

HI

I HAVE NOW SENT A PM TO SWINGDEV WITH THE PASSWORD FOR MURDEROUSKIRK.

PLEASE CAN SWINGDEV CONFIRM THEY HAVE SECURED IT ASAP.

THANKS
ALTCOIN4LIFE

SWINGDEV, ONCE YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE PM, PLEASE CHANGE THE EMAIL AND THE PASSWORD (PLEASE CHOOSE A LONG SECURE NEW PASSWORD) OF MURDEROUSKIRK ACCOUNT ASAP.

PLEASE MAKE A NEW SIGNED MESSAGE FROM THE ACCOUNT SAYING IT HAS BEEN RETURNED BACK TO THE ORIGINAL OWNER FROM ME, PLEASE POST IT HERE.

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
This is murderouskirk posting from murderouskirk. Altcoin4Life has returned my account! 11:44PM EST 1/20/2016 - \o/ Hooray!
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71
H/tljcNY6VUWgEy7UB0S3m+hH24CNXCgnGByl81j/Oi6DFNJWGS7Y7Mfxr/9I66xLugx4kkpcxBieWvDDrPYbqc=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Location of addy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.msg12788990#msg12788990

Done!

Thanks for coming through Altcoin4life. Much appreciated man.

Please post your address again for me.

(All of my personal messages have been wiped, but w/e I'm just happy this has come to a close  ;D)

verified (http://coinig.com/?adr=1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71&msg=This+is+murderouskirk+posting+from+murderouskirk.+Altcoin4Life+has+returned+my+account%21+11%3A44PM+EST+1%2F20%2F2016+-+%5Co%2F+Hooray%21&sig=H%2FtljcNY6VUWgEy7UB0S3m%2BhH24CNXCgnGByl81j%2FOi6DFNJWGS7Y7Mfxr%2F9I66xLugx4kkpcxBieWvDDrPYbqc%3D)

Message checks out. Take good care of your account and tip Alcoin4life generously. I revised my feedback for both of you.

Hi murderouskirk/swingdev

If you decide to pay something in the future, my address is

1HbPkpQiKgq48mCpL5BTxyVsHf4fjM8uop

Thanks
Altcoin4life

It would seem at this late hour that Altcoin4Life is stalling in removing his fraudulent accusation that I have scammed him for BTC 0.13 in the feedback / trust that he has left on my trust wall.

@The Pharmacist
You get a hacked account as collateral, basically losing 0.13 BTC ($50)
Somehow the original owner comes out of nowhere and says it was hacked.
Suspicious?
People start leaving you negative trust and not the owner of the supposed hacked account.
Basically; Lost $50, Lost collateral, Get negatives for not wanting to lose your money
Obviously he will leave feedback for those who left it for him.
How do we know that the original account isn't the one who just used that story to get a free 0.13?

So out of nowhere you jump into the conversation ? I suggest you study the topics and the situations thoroughly before posting comments .Let me clear that one for you.

So the hacked account tries to scam me for 0.50.I spread the word (through mex) and surprisingly the hacked account had already started his scam attempts .So Mexxer and few others (including me) left warning on his account .At the same time,the hacked account posted a request of 0.13 loan in altcoin4life's lending thread and the next post was mexxer's warning altcoin4life to not given him the loan, since the account is hacked.Ignoring the warning,altcoin4life took the account as collateral (without acknowledging the warning) and gave the loan.Loan gets defaulted with negative trust to the collateral.

Now when the real owner finds out about this,he messages altcoin4life to get his account back.He provided signed message on request and everything else to prove he is the true owner of the account (which he is).So how come its the owner's fault ,that his account got hacked ? Instead of giving the account to the rightful owner ,Altcoin4life did all sort of drama including asking money to cover up his loss.In which damn books of law this makes sense ?Whatever altcoin4life did was his and only his mistake despite of the big fuckin warning by mexxer-2.Now he is all whining about it and giving negative feedback to people who posted against him(including me).

Once again, Altcoin4life,
remove your bullshit negative feedback from the accounts you have tagged for whatever idiotic idea of how the feedback system works you have.
This situation seems solved right now, and I guess we would all be ready to only leave a neutral comment about it on your trust page,
however, with you leaving others and me 2 negatives for basically nothing, that's not how this situation will unfold.
Currently, you got all the cards in your hand (you returned the account, admitted making mistakes), but if you continue to stonewall and stall,
this might change.
Be smart over here, don't be a stupid, stubborn donkey

If it wasn't for Altcoin4life , I wouldn't have found this multi users / alt of using the same wallet

BiTZeD , chanlance , SAMKUSH , kaomaxx all using the same wallet 15tatYMrey4ycztame4BkCV89fuDHv7rYW and all claiming from the same give away archived here http://archive.is/NrBDK

15tatYMrey4ycztame4BkCV89fuDHv7rYW

---

---

---

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1289315.0 (Locked thread) BiTZeD again...

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---

---

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---

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1233416.msg12845106#msg12845106 (locked thread)


...and two posts below that is another wallet by SAMKUSH

SAMKUSH


... and one post below that by BiTZeD https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1233416.msg12845145#msg12845145

---

BiTZeD , chanlance , SAMKUSH , kaomaxx all using the same wallet 15tatYMrey4ycztame4BkCV89fuDHv7rYW and all claiming from the same give away archived here http://archive.is/NrBDK

Altcoin4life : Any closer to removing the fake negative trust that you left me and some others?

Good eye sniffing those alts out buddy

Heh thanks - Have just discovered chanlance 's account is being held by Altcoin4life - I wonder if there will be tears?

Tomorrow, I'll pick another of Altcoin4life 's customers - pick another user one below them and do the same.

On the same page that Altcoin4life loaning shanerc563 funds and the four aforementioned alts being found out...

---

I've found this


and a quick check of the wallet reviels a second user using the same wallet.

---

In summary, Sarahiko is an Alt of chichidori with both wallet 17oQEWXUs2sy1QxMbzfTMpWt193rcD38KE and Twitter : https://twitter.com/kikoben (https://twitter.com/kikoben)

---

Found due to Altcoin4life loaning shanerc563 funds.

I just didn't felt that it is any serious issue but it so annoying as I see people putting it all over the lender.I mean what the fuck did the developer learned in his years of crypto experience if he is unable to prevent a simple hack ?

He is running a Coin and suddenly a gap of 2 weeks ?

However,the password is changed for the first time on 6th and if that was the time of hack then what the heck was the hacker waiting for and why wanted to pull off the scam while hacking it 8 days before ? Doesn't makes sense.

Lets assume the above reset was done by dev itself and he had complete control on the account.The next reset is on 13th and just one day before the loan,its not a single reset but was done thrice.However the user/hacker tried to scam in a variety of ways and urged others to send first.I am pretty sure all this process might have involved several pm's and he might have also received a pm from Altcoin4Life too(can be confirmed) but afaik you receive a pm notification to your e-mail but the dev ignored/missed this too ? lol but he is suddenly active as the loan is processed.I don't find this story to be a coincidence but i wouldn't conclude that he a pulled a scam.

If the dev would have been active in the mean time then he could have reported and no one would have ever loaned the hacker,right ? but you reported right after the loan was processed.Not convincing.

Now why would Altcoin4life be wanting information about accessing someone's wallet *after* having sold the private key?

Advice about sweeping or importing private key for specific btc address - How? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1345013.0 - http://archive.is/11O9T

Altcoin4Life I have sent you all of my bitcoin.

I only had 0.01108945.

I understand this is laughably small. I'll send more your way as I get it.


You're making some failed assumptions.

Why would the intruder fail to change my email? If it was still tied to my original email address (which i have access to) I probably would have been able to get back in.

BitcoinTalk does not email you when your email address has been changed. Try it yourself if you don't believe me. (It's a little absurd I know..)

The last email I got from a message was 12/17/15 from one of my holders discussing volume.

I got nothing after that and especially didn't get emails containing the intruders PM's...

And in regards to


Swing doesn't pay the bills man. I've been trying to find an income for myself. You don't have to be employed with a quality job and 100% free time to make a cryptocurrency.

It was a nice try but you'll have to do better to put together a logical accusation against me.

---

Also,

I have removed the neg's left on users like Mexxer etc.. done by the intruder. I took a screenshot of those that left me warning negs and will be adding +Rep to anyone that correctly placed a warning on the account before the account was returned.

Altcoin4life loaned rajat08 some BTC


after having been unable to get a loan elsewhere...

---

The wallet is also used by sellaccount99

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sellaccount99 is an Alt of rajat08

---

​Altcoin4life doesn't appear to be very careful in who he loans BitCoins to.

Hi Swingdev/murderouskirk

Many Thanks for the small tip you gave to my address like you said you would.

https://blockchain.info/tx/2066340c72bc17f3a38f660994bd674b97d1c9d68c51abce3fbc8946a5f63ce1

I appreciate this is a good gesture and glad you paid something and kept your word.

If you do develop the swing coin much more or you do profit it would be good if you give some tip like you said you would.

Anyway thanks again, and i hope you are back up and running and its good that this issue is solved.

Cheers
Altcoin4life

Hi Timelord2067

I have never loaned rajat08 any coins. I simply sent him a PM to say that i am unable to give this loan.

ALL THE LOANS I HAVE MADE IN THE PAST ARE ACTUALLY AT THE TOP OF MY LENDING THREAD AND CAN BE FOUND BELOW:

THIS LEDGER HAS FULL DETAILS INCLUDING LINKS OF PAYMENT PROOF ETC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1295650.msg13297793#msg13297793

Many Thanks
Altcoin4life

Hi everyone

Just to let you know that i am being much more careful now to who i loan money to including now getting an old staked message as well as taking collateral and looking for other red flags.

I WILL NOW ALSO SEARCH THE BTC ADDRESS THEY GIVE TO FIND OUT ANY INFO ABOUT ANY ALTS THEY MAY HAVE ON THIS FORUM.

Many Thanks
Alcoin4life

All these can be avoided if you guys stop taking accounts collateral. It's what's encouraging scammers/hackers to hijack high ranked accounts and then offering them out again as collateral. Anyway, glad this issue is settled, would also be good if you would revise your rushed feedback left on others.

I have received this mesage in my PM

---

You claim that suchmoon , Lutpin and myself have each scammed you of BTC 0.13

I again ask you to either show proof or to remove your negative trust - both of them.



I consider yo to be little more than a compulsive liar.

I just pointed out the possibilities and this could have been resolved pretty easily if staff involves but they don't ,so its just waste of time as both the parties would eventually get the benefit of doubt.

Though,you coming just after the loan is not a convincing hack story to me but again i wouldn't accuse anyone basing on such low value info.In the end you are definitely not the innocent here and the perfect solution would be to refund half of the coins to the lender,I doubt you would do that ever.

See what blazed did on a similar situation.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1161189.msg12233755#msg12233755

No try ,I would have posted it in the beginning if i had to try anything but i got pissed by other comments against the lender while he is angry about his loss.
Now the edited & bolded words are just proving my points.Do you mean that you planned everything in a professional manner by which you are assuming the difficulty ?

I don't think he is claiming that you people scammed but IMO he is annoyed because of unnecessary interference.The money is just a reference.
However the ratings seem to be edited now.

Why don't you show proof that he has not returned the account and why don't you remove your fake(first) feedback from his profile even after he returned the account to the assumed rightful owner ?

People want to leave a neutral even after the situation is resolved completely but they fear or simply don't like when the same happens to them ? huh...doesn't seems fair to me cause if you think someone is dishonest and leave a feedback then he too has the right to do such.

I didn't knew that someone could use DT3 or force anyone ? I think people just wanted to troll him with the neutral/negative game but sadly he doesn't seems to have enough knowledge about forum drama and started retaliating it simply.I don't see anything wrong if you discuss and resolve the rating issues.

Why? That's pretty cynical of you, not that i really blame you for being that way in the world of bitcoin I guess. Half is only 0.065, so far I've given him all the bitcoin I have (0.011). Not a huge stretch of the imagination or wallet to think I might pass .054+ his way in the future (~$20 USD).

Also like I said in another post I can respect you pointing out the possibilities. I was just showing the holes in the possibilities you presented.

Because you didn't did it when you had a chance to.However, why not do it now ? Give him 0.05 or something similar & I think it would be a lot more pleasing.

Thanks.But there are holes everywhere and i didn't liked people accusing the lender particularly.This was the only point of mine.

Did you read the thread? He stated that he hasn't got the funds liquid right now, easy as that. And you know what, to a point, I believe him. All his known addresses are empty right now.

---

Doesn't change the first quote, that was written yesterday.

He edited that later.The original post is the one I quoted.

i am sick of this, post a fucking address and i will send 0.01... wont make me poor, wont solve it but by doing so we are on a way to silence all the ladys here.....

god damn....

if I'm not mistaking, he posted this & got the guy with the hacked account to send btc here
https://blockchain.info/address/1HbPkpQiKgq48mCpL5BTxyVsHf4fjM8uop
it's on the page before this

Hey Heutenamos that's very smart (er, no, no it's not) splitting my two sentences and interpreting them differently when they were written together.

Quoting for future reference...

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You know what.The big LOL here is that the victim and the lender don't have any grudge among themselves and in fact 'murderouskirk' left a positive feedback for 'Altcoin4life' but those who have no concerns towards the account or the money are just trolling by showing that they too can type and press the submit button on the feedback page.Good Luck,stay in the kindergarten.

Quoted for future reference.

There is still the outstanding issue of the negative feedback / trust that you have left for some of us.

I received a handful of missives from chichidori, the last being:


I then suggested to chichidori that I would modify my feedback to neutral and received this.


chichidori It would help if you post information on the sale of the account Sarahiko here.