Bitcoin Forum

I just thought I would post a thread here as I have an interest in Bitcoin and seasteading. For those that have never heard of it, seasteading is taking the concept of homesteading to the ocean. If your floating home is 12 nautical miles away from a nation's shore, you are not subject to most of the nation's laws outside of mineral rights, oil, and a few other things. 200 nautical miles from any nation and there is are no national laws.

The idea pushed by the Seasteading Institute is that if we set up several of these seastead communities, we can experiment with new forms of government which can rise or fall based upon how good the new government works. With current governments there is not much competition. With thousands of seasteads competing for residents that can pick up and move to a new seastead, there will be innovation in government.

A sound idea also pushed and generally accepted is that the first seasteads will likely be protected by a host nation initially so that we can work through the engineering constraints first before moving further and further out to sea. The Seasteading Institute has partnered with French Polynesia to begin building the world's first seastead in the protected waters of one of their larger islands. The hope is that they will begin building a large structure some time in 2019. Cost estimates for the initial structure have been somewhere in the $30-$50 million range, with each person needing about $500k to $1 million to live there.

My own plan, which is a slight deviation from their plan, is to start small and modularly (not likely a real word). I would also like to start in a protected waterway initially. But I recognize that most people cannot afford such a high price, and their system does not leave much room for picking up your home and floating to a new seastead if you want to. My goal is to follow the tiny house trend initially and build a small modular floating structure that I can keep under $20k for the base price (plus cost of solar panels, water maker, composting toilet, etc.). Basically enough living space as a small boat, but unlike a boat you can attach these units together for more and more living space as can be afforded.

The rise in the bitcoin price has accelerated my plans and at a certain price point I will likely quit my job and pursue this full time. I am not here looking for funding, investment or even a hand out. I have been working on my design for several years now. I have created computer models of it and will focus next on finding the most structurally sound design as possible while keeping it economical. My initial plan will be to move to a low cost country, likely in Asia (Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc.), maybe French Polynesia (more expensive), and work on building my prototype. I will then move it to the ocean and test in a protected waterway, living in the smallest unit to learn and improve the design.

I will be doing this no matter what. I will share my journey with those that are interested and I hope that once I have something proven, people will want to join my journey and become pioneers in this new industry.

A good forum where seasteading is discussed in grave detail can be found here: https://discuss.seasteading.org/

Do not presume to think that I have not considered some obvious thing about living on the ocean or building a seastead or some knee jerk reaction such as waves or pirates. If you go to the seasteading forum you will see that there have been discussions on there back as far as 2008 (when I first got involved) and there is discussion (mostly arguments) about just about every minute detail that may come up. Mostly discussions about things that do not need to be considered until we are 200 nm from any nation.

What are your thoughts on seasteading? Is it something you would consider doing at some point in your life? What do you like/not like about the concept?


Here is a high level overview of my design that I put together a few years ago. I have since improved upon that initial design but the concept is still similar.
https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/my-viva-vivas-seastead-design/921/2

I am toying with the idea a little. Do they have chemtrails over there? If they do, we can always float her elsewhere.

There will come a time that the oceans will turn into red algae because of the pollution. At that time living on the land might be better.  

 8)

This is a very interesting idea. There are some things I'd be concerned about though. How easy would it be to fly of from the stead? Someone might need an emergency procedure done that doctors in the island can't perform requiring a trip back to the mainland. Also, how fast can these thing be moved? If you build them anywhere in the Pacific you'd have to move them a safe distance from projected paths of typhoons. Even far from all the winds and rain of those pesky things, they'd churn up the water, risking the safety of the islands.

I like the idea because it seems to appeal to people who I consider to be problems.  To bad none of them will ever get around to actually doing it.

Typhoons and hurricanes do not exist on the equator.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/cECCC.png

It is interesting, I live overseas and hardly ever see chemtrails. When I saw a picture my brother posted back in the US and saw the sky I was surprised by the amount in the sky. I am still not entirely convinced but such things give me pause. I would say that it likely has more to do with the amount of planes in the sky. Being in Afghanistan there are no planes flying over.

Higher concentrations of nitrogen in the water may be a good thing for some of the algae farms, benefiting the seastead. Such proposals have been made to actually help curb water pollution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN0WF6gNbcA

I like the idea. So how would one set about governing an island like this? I remember a simpsons episode where they instated a mandatory conga-line for people that broke the rules.

How do you see that? How would conflicts be resolved?

Just two things I'd miss if I chose to live like that are space to walk around and freedom to buy stuff I need at any moment.
What if you get sick and need medicine that you don't have in stock? What if a panel controller breaks and you are left with no lights and no way to cook food? Where do you get spare parts and how long will it take?

Well I hope it stay that way. I live in the Philippines and we have a love-hate relationship with typhoons so it was the first thing I started to worry about when I thought about living on water. So basically, after the units are made, it could be placed anywhere on that storm-less band? Are you thinking of multiple settlements on that area? I was wondering where would be the perfect spot that's far enough from any country but close enough to fly to a city for medical emergencies.


I suppose each unit would have their own solar panels. Maybe they can just hook up their electric stove to it should any central generator fail.

There are also remote islands on which people live and have long since adapted to such a life. They have other priorities and ways of survival. So I do not see any problems with that.

Concrete hulled pontoon boats are the cheapest to make. No?    8)

As a libertarian I have my own ideas of governance but considering the first seastead will be within the waters of a nation, there is not much point in deciding now with people who don't actually live on the seastead. I would leave such things to be determined by those who actually take the action of uprooting their lives and live on the seastead. They would know best how things should be run. The initial governance would be under the host nation's governance.

Initially it would be no different than living on a sailboat moored out in the water. You order your parts on Amazon, have it shipped to an address at a harbor address or marina, you take a dingy to the marina and get your supplies.

With many people on the seasteads, there will likely be someone going back and forth almost daily. It would likely be commonplace for people to pick up someone else's mail.

Yes. Concrete is the cheapest and most resilient material against salt water. Most seasteaders choose that as their material. I am fairly certain that The Seasteading Institute plans on creating huge 50 meters platforms out of concrete.

Concrete hulled pontoon boats would be good if they are separate from each other. But concrete is fragile when it bangs against concrete over and over. It would be very difficult to attach them together for a large platform. Anything that would be flexible and strong enough to separate the units would likely degrade in salt water over time.

Steel has been used for ship building for decades. It can also bang against each other over and over without degradation. Also, polyurea adheres best to steel, which is what I would use for coating to protect from salt water.
I address the reason for steel in my design outline: https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/my-viva-vivas-seastead-design/921/2

I, also, would prefer steel over concrete. But the expense of steel would be prohibitive right now, at the beginning.

I say start small, and use concrete. Gradually convert to steel as people come on board and add their funds.

Of course, if funds aren't a problem, do the steel right from the start.

Set it up this way, with the idea of conversion in mind, so that it is built in a way that can be converted more easily.

8)

The cost for the steel required for my initial prototype would be less than $10k. For me that is not cost prohibitive.

If people already begin to live in this way, I am sure that they will take care of the infrastructure and providing them with a large land. After all, this is not a problem in the world of high technology and technological progress.

I am currently in Tahiti for a seasteading conference. Should be interesting. Spent the last few weeks scoping out Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Thailand seems like it has good potential.

Seasteading... one of the weakest "nations" on earth.

So weak that they might be ignored as not-a-threat by other nations in a time of war, or they might be taken out as an easy precaution.

Fun, though, until then.

8)

Wow. Thailand seem a good place to build it, that part of SE Asia don't usually get strong typhoons. Might have to consider the conflict over the South China Sea though. You wouldn't want China to think you're a shill for someone and that the project would be used by other claimants to build settlements on the disputed waters.

How would you be protected from pirates and such? Most countries can't protect their citizen on land and can't effectvally watch all waterflow.

Also a certain nation in Asia(North Korea) has reports of abducting people from boats in sea, they may attack you and the outside world would never know what happened.

And I don't think the nations and people fleeing to live outside their jurisdiction, I think even the "host" nation would be a threat

The prices for steel, particularly stainless, are not realistic.  Stainless is not available for $500 per ton.

For comparison, look at SCRAP prices here:

http://www.scrapmonster.com/scrap-prices/category/Stainless-Steel/151/1/1

Thailand is already well developed, you may consider its neighbor, Burma. I was talking to a Vietnamese friend not long ago, and she's investing in Myanmar. The country's opening up, and there is plenty of opportunities for foreigners with cash in hand.

Pirates? We don't develop near nations where pirating is common.

If any project starts out with "we have to be able to defend ourselves against nations" then it's dead from the start. Imagine if everyone considering buying a boat thought "I can't buy this boat, Korea may attack me".

You have a brilliant idea however you can only realize your idea if you have billions of dollars to construct a community floating in the ocean. Aside from creating a community you must also consider the hazards such as big waves and huge storms that your community will be facing. Your structures must be tough to meet those conditions. Lastly, I can say that your ideas are good but I can foretell that you do not have the resources to make your plans a reality.

Thank you.

These things have been taken into account.

It is true that without people joining the project, or without some wealthy benefactor, the project will fail. But this is the same for any large project.

This is a positive project. It can be made to work. Join us, add your funds, and secure a place. This is only the beginning.

8)

http://weather.astro50.com/images/hiresolution/hawaii-seven-oh.jpg


8)

You are not talking about buying a boat, you are talking about starting a country.

Country that cant defend itself from something as meager as third world pirates is no country.

We dont live 1960s anymore.

But there were way more pirates in the 1860s.    8)

So off grid, they're even off land! (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/218211-2017-05-17-so-off-grid-theyre-even-off-land.htm)


https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/533-0517180756-a.png (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/218211-2017-05-17-so-off-grid-theyre-even-off-land.htm)



Read more at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4500142/Meet-couple-ve-spent-25-years-floating-home.html.


8)

In the west, sure, man. Sure.

But nobody here mentioned sea steading next to New York or Copenhagen  ;) southern Asia is still quite exciting place.

How many armed and motivated Indonesians would I need to take over this sea steading utopia and turn it into large prison for everybody? Ten? Twenty?

http://cimsec.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/ship2.jpg

Or lets say, you like Metal Gear Solid and find Zanzibar to be good starting place. Somalians cant read but they sure know how to operate a rpg.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fCn92bnvegw/maxresdefault.jpg

And then what? Call a mama (aka bad ol´ government)? You cant run on a sea and you sure as hell wont outswim speedboats of these guys.

Actually, this - guns - is exactly a big point why we have the Seasteading idea. What I mean is this.

Look at the guns in the picture 2 posts up. Look what is said about the Somalians: "Somalians cant read but they sure know how to operate a rpg."

I can read. I am reasonably intelligent. But I am not allowed in gun-loving old USA to have an assortment of guns like this. It costs too much. Same said much of western Europe. And that's besides the anti-gun laws.

Seasteading is about freedom. Who gives those Somalians their guns? If they can have them, so can we... and bigger and better guns... out there where nobody denies us our rights.

8)

Mel Gibson-Waterworld

This is an interesting concept.

The types of people doing this type of thing tend to be focused on being entirely self sufficient and therefore rejecting anything that comes from existing states.

I would be interested in the idea but would realize the need to import products from neighboring countries.
I would be interested to know how the economy of such a nation would develop.
Maybe the cost of imports would be offset by exports of fish or other aquatic agriculture?
Maybe a digital economy would form, providing service through technology. (although this raises the question of how to connect)

One of the reasons that various countries of the world will leave Seasteading alone is, if they mess with us, news will report it, and the world will rebel. As long as we don't do big things, and make big "waves" in the world environment, they will leave us alone... because they know that they can take us out any minute of any day. But, this is the same with anybody in any country in the whole world.

They will take out a threat. As long as we don't become a threat to them, they will let us live, even with our petty self-protection from people like Somalian pirates.

8)

What about conflicts between various seasteading colonies? Will these colonies make claim to the sea directly surrounding them much like traditional countries do? These claims could include valuable resources which become an issue of dispute between seasteading colonies.
Maybe a code will need to be written between these outlaw states, like the old code of pirates.

One thing at a time, por favor. Once we get going, this will be voted on. Sure, some of the "founders" have thought of this. But, at the beginning at least, this will be a thing voted on by the members... after we launch.

8)

If nothing else this will make a great plot to a movie or book.
I'm thinking Mad Max but on water.  ;D

I just finished up a week in Tahiti for the first ever Tahitia seasteading conference.

The takeaway is that French Polynesia supports us building the first ever seastead in one of their protected lagoons. They are willing to set up a Special Economic Zone for the seastead that will allow us to have our own economic laws but still require following their criminal laws. So things such as taxes, labor laws, business regulation etc will be handled by us, things such as murder, rape, theft etc will be handled under the current French system. And of course, defense against pirates will fall under the French navy's responsibility.

The legislation should go through by the end of 2017 and then 2018 we can get started. Likely first seastead will be up in 2020.

I will be working with a great team of cryptocurrency experts to see how we can integrate Bitcoin and blockchain technology for things such as title management, equity investments, shares, etc.

I would suggest a SegWit-like additional database, that contains the literal contracts... but at least a reference to them wherever they might exist... as proof.

8)

I like the idea of this developing into a society based upon blockchain.
If the seastead takes off and becomes stable it could create a very rich zone for blockchain development and real world testing, becoming the blockchain equivalent of silicon valley and attracting a lot of interest and investment on the world stage.

There are various groups trying to tie contracts in with the blockchain, to make them solid, and to keep the record very public. Among them are The Omni Layer (http://www.omnilayer.org/) and Counterparty (https://counterparty.io/)... and there are others. The thing we really need is a SegWit-like, additional blockchain, that holds the contract info, and that ties the contract info into the Bitcoin blockchain, so that it can always be found and attested to with indisputable accuracy... and easily transferred by Bitcoin, if desired by the contract makers.

8)

Thats your resolution of conflict between those who have and have nots?

Arm everybody? Ive heard about such story before.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6M3M9tTz3vk/TMi90BatpVI/AAAAAAAAATY/Hgk5V40lat8/s1600/Bioshock.jpg

Perhaps, you will have to one day grow up and realize you are not special snowflake in a vacuum but human being and part of society. Otherwise, I see very little reason to exchange tyranny of atheistic, socialistic governments for tyranny of sea steading atheists, who believe in the survival of the fittest. More likely than not, they are not "fittest" either. If they were, they wouldnt seek refuge outside of society in the first place.

Part of the human race, maybe... but not part of YOUR society, necessarily.

As for 3D printing, we're only at the start of what can be done:

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/218365-2017-05-21-17-incredible-3d-printed-objects.htm

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/218367-2017-05-21-how-metal-3d-printing-works.htm

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/218364-2017-05-21-3d-printed-ceramics-popmech.htm

https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/197262-2016-05-20-carbon-m1-super-fast-3d-printer-demo-publisher-recommended.htm

https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/217813-2017-05-10-scientists-successfully-3d-print-human-cartilage-with-a-breakthrough-stem.htm

https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/217273-2017-05-01-7-amazing-cnc-machines-you-should-have.htm

https://ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-gunner

8)

BADecker,

perphaps you need some time to copy and paste less and think more. You have no alternative to a society you currently live in. You, yourself a christian. This seasteading, if succesfull will put you and many others among non-believing sharks. You talk about new start, but only thing you will manage to do is raising new walls.

Because you were too weak, to live in society you were part of and not strong enough to form a new one.

Sure, lets talk about bitcoin, weed, 3d printing and arming everyone (how many of those concepts are even your own?). That will make for great fundamentals of a new culture.

I will pray for you.

Hey, Okurkabinladin. Thanks for your prayers. But you are entirely mistaken about society in general, and my place with relation to it. Have a re-think.

8)

Seasteading in Paradise (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/218461-2017-05-22-seasteading-in-paradise.htm)


https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/693-0522101103-seasteading-in-aradise.jpg (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/218461-2017-05-22-seasteading-in-paradise.htm)




Read more at http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/21/seasteading-in-paradise.


8)

If you do not believe that you are already living in a world of survival of the fittest you are looking at the world wrong. Those with the weapons run things. Look around.


Why would you care if there is someone somewhere in the world that is free? I imagine if there was someone deep in a cave somewhere practicing freedom you would want to stop this "part of society" from exercising such freedom. Track them down and make them conform. Otherwise what? You couldn't live with yourself knowing that someone else is more free than everyone else?

Freedom Speech Easy Rider
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Gc11mJGre10/hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=246&h=138&stc=true&jpg444=true&jpgq=90&sp=68&bri=0.3&sigh=QGq41XIFAohSPtsL0XMdMEsm-L0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc11mJGre10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc11mJGre10)


8)

Aren't there concerns with safety from hurricanes, tidal waves, etc.? Also even though you would be outside of government influence and taxes you would also not have law enforcement protections.

Tahiti has not had a hurricane or cyclone in over 100 years. The closer you are to the equator the less those things happen.

We would initially be under French Polynesia law protections.

The tone of Quirk's book, co-written with Patri Friedman (grandson of Milton Friedman) is in keeping with the imperialist attitudes that have led to so much of the land in the world being colonized by white men who have no claim to it. Indeed, The Seasteading Institute and movement are vastly dominated by men. Those "seavangelizing" appear to be suggesting that now that they have run out of land to colonize, the seas are next.


Seasteading with Joe Quirk (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/252510-2018-12-06-seasteading-with-joe-quirk.htm)




Personally, I can't wait for this to become a reality enough for more-or-less average people to get into.


8)

Worrying about the sex or color of those creating a new industry seems a bit short sighted. Not to mention racist and sexist.

Those creating a new future are not worried whatsoever about such things, only about those that can actually help make it happen.

Since you are far closer to the actual seasteading scene than am I, I expect that you would know this far better than I. However, two things:

1. The article basically said that the seasteaders were doing what they were doing to better their lives. At least, that is what I came away with.

2. You know better than most what happens when people form an organization. It is hinted at in the article. What it is, is, somebody tries to innocently take control for his own benefit. The governmental infrastructure of any seasteading organization had better be spelled out clearly from a standpoint of freedom. If it isn't, it will simply become another dictatorship in one way or another. People who get into seasteading are somewhat ignorant of the basic principle of freedom, just like all other people. What is this principle? You are free to do anything you want unless you injure someone else or directly threaten him.

Further. A basic, simple history lesson about the USA. Back in the 1700s, the wealthy people in the Colonies were being threatened with taxation by King George and Co.  They were not wealthy enough to buy armies, so they had to do something that united the people in the colonies to fight the King. So, they built a potential government that offered the above principle to all people. But to maintain their control, they hid the clear working of it inside Constitution and the Amendments, so that the common people could feel that it was there, but could never use it in a big way to oppose government.

Today, we use parts of the above principle through the technical wording of the Constitution/Amendments. But most people are totally brainwashed into thinking that it is the Constitution/Amendments where they get their freedom from. Rather, all the Constitution/Amendments do is point to the place where people really get their freedom from.

This is so well hidden in the Constitution/Amendments by the wording (while, also, being right out in the open), that the people fail to see it and use it. This is good because it makes government strong to protect us, but it is bad because it makes government strong to conquer us. In fact, it is because of oppressive government(s) that the idea of seasteading has come into being. People being what they are, the same thing will happen with the government of seasteading, except if the people are really wise in their seasteading governmental structuring.

I'm afraid that Joe Quirk doesn't have the proper understanding of this. He is going to turn seasteading into another dictatorship, even if it is only by accident.

8)

The way it will be done it will be pretty much impossible to become a dictatorship.

That may be the case for some of these mega millions seasteads. At least micro dictatorships.

The first seasteads will be more like individuals building a log cabin in the woods. Then more people also building their cabins in nearby woods. Some deciding to be next to each other, some preferring to be on their own. As it grows bigger there will be those that congregate more in one area while others still choose to be far enough away. There will always be the option to be far enough away. That makes it very difficult for a dictatorship to thrive.

So more like people choosing to move to Alaska to be free. Without the cold but with other challenges.

The mega super structures are a long way from happening and likely slow down seasteading by being the main focus and drain of money that never results in anything being built.

My question is, should seasteading set up the ideas behind its governmental structure from the start?

In the American colonies, people were used to the idea of living their own ways, freely. Yet they formed colonies for protection and help in projects - corn husking bees, barn building, butcher-baker-candlestick-maker.

I would guess that there are many people living out on the ocean in boats, with the idea that they will never go back, as long as the boat holds up. They are doing this privately, or in small groups. Joe Quirk is trying to set up a colony, isn't he? If he weren't, he could simply go live on a boat and develop his own "concrete hulled" island if he wanted.

A colony means government. Government means what? Better get this down clear right now, or it will wind up being a dictatorship faster than one might think, right?

8)

It will grow slow enough so that the first seasteaders are the ones determining their government. Not some people speculating on the Internet.

That will be the early adopter advantage.

It may change down the road as more people come but those early pioneers will be shaping the foundation of seasteading governance.

With just a handful of people all you need are rules akin to a home owners association. They can then decide how they want things from there.

A form of simplified U.S. Constitution with an emphasis and explanation on the Right to Contact and the duty of the jury to use jury nullification might be a good focal point.

Or, they could use the simple government that Dennis proposes here:
Monty Python - Constitutional Peasants Scene (HD)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/t2c-X8HiBng/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEjCPYBEIoBSFryq4qpAxUIARUAAAAAGAElAADIQj0AgKJDeAE=&rs=AOn4CLAO8nyzziZTbmGspVxZq8CckVxidA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c-X8HiBng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c-X8HiBng)

8)

This is a very good notion. I like that. It can be a good breakthrough in human history and would become the 5th "industrial" revolution.

Countless things can be done through blockchain and irs a good place to start something on a notable scale

Agree. Organic (and relatively slow at the outset) growth is the only way to establish this sort of global movement.  Similar in a way to BTC.

Planning and centralisation always put a spanner in the works, and can only have a use in later stages.

The thing you are talking about is do-it-yourself. When you do it yourself, you don't need any agreement. But as soon as you hire someone else to do it for you, you need an agreement with them. Consider all over the world where someone hires a contractor to build it for him. There's a contract, a governing piece of paper.

If you build your own island yourself, and later get together with other folks to attach your island to theirs, you need an agreement of sorts. The agreement governs the operation. It's a government.

Seasteading has an official agreement with French Polynesia, doesn't it? If you join Seasteading, you do so according to the agreement. The agreement governs. The only way there isn't a government is if you do it yourself.

Think the government through well before you sign on the line.

8)

A single company creating a single seastead is working on an agreement with French Polynesia.

Imagine the first person to come up with the concept of a "house". They go to the chief of the little village and negotiate a location for their new technology of 4 walls and a roof. There is an official agreement in that village for a house that is to be built. It will be amazing. All of your dreams will come true.

And then there's another guy thousands of miles away with the same idea. He doesn't even discuss it with his village chief, he just goes into the woods and builds a small house. Or even...has his friends build him a house. In exchange they get some coconuts or some meat from his last catch.

Then his friends decide to build houses near his house.

No government is needed just because a house is built. Same for seasteading. Just build it and live in it. If you want to interact with your neighbors, interact. If you don't like how your neighbor interacts with you...move your house.

It's really that simple.

Seasteading creates these images of fantasy land where all of your dreams come true. That's why I won't be talking about the project I'm working on because unless someone sees it in action the concept of seasteading comes with all sorts of baggage. People either believe it solves all problems or creates all problems. They already have an image in their head of what seasteading is. And all of those ideas are different from everyone else's ideas. But their idea is the best...because reasons.

I like the idea.If I could afford it I would give it a go for sure.There was an ICO related to seasteading few months ago, but it didn't turn out it seems. I haven't checked what really happened and why it failed, Elwar do you know why? NOt enough funds raised?

I liked that idea, not only because you can be quite independent that way and avoid lots of land related problems, but because if the seasteading project would be related to crpyto it could become like crypto incubator for all kinds of ideas and solutions.Perfect place to test in real life anything that comes to your mind.

Like most of the other ICOs it was just bad timing. They missed the boom last year and tried to do an ICO during the bear cycle. They set a minimum raise amount and did not hit that number so they refunded everyone's money.

They also ran into problems in French Polynesia with the government...it was election season so the opposition used Blue Frontiers as an opportunity to turn it into an election time issue making up all sorts of false claims to try to win votes. In the end the party attacking the project lost. But in order to save face the government backed down from their promises during the election and couldn't figure out a way to get back to it afterwards. There is still some work going on there in French Polynesia to have it on one of the remote islands but time will tell. Blue Frontiers started expanding to other countries during the whole thing so hopefully a new destination crops up.

It's probably good that they didn't get enough funding since it was raised in ETH and since this summer the price has crashed. The project would have failed while also taking a lot of peoples' money.

I think the main benefit would be that you would be able to structure your society differently.  For example, you could establish scientific hubs that would not be regulated and can speed up technological progress.  Genetic, stem research, human cloning, nanotechnology, AI etc. come to mind. 

The issue I see is, how do you get funding to get this off the ground.  I guess if you can convince enough smart and rich people to join, it might work.

Then again, when your 'country' becomes successful and develops something worth fighting for, I am sure the US will find a reason to invade you, if not, Russia will find a reason to 'protect' Russian citizens in your enclave to invade your country and run a 'referendum' to join Russia.

Interesting idea, but you have a lot of competition with trillion dollar armies.

That's almost the thing that I have been saying. But consider:

Over the years, all those people who wanted to live free on the waters have done it. A few of them have done it jointly under one kind of agreement or another. Some may even have advertised for people to join them, like Seasteading does.

Seasteading is under contract. The contract is governing law. If people join, because it looks like Seasteading has strength, there should really be strength in the contract... strength for freedom. After all, Seasteading "leaders" don't want to hurt people, do they?

How big was the USA government when the Constitution and the Amendments were ratified? Most of the people agreed with the new USA grudgingly, because it was the lesser of two evils, King George being the greater. Seasteading people aren't agreeing grudgingly. They are jumping right in. Are they doing so without understanding the basics of the contract?

The new USA government happened to be a good freedom form. Is the Seasteading contract?

8)

Every year there is an event called ephemerisle. A bunch of people in a California bay get together and build floating structures and have a week long party.

Some structures form islands and some require that you sign a contract before you can come aboard. The contracts are usually something like "I promise not to hurt anyone, litter, steal, etc.".

Each one has a different contract.

"Seasteading" is not one thing that will be governed by one thing. You might come to my house and I have one set of rules and go to someone else's house and they have other rules. Some people may combine their houses and have an agreed upon set of rules.

I fully expect that if seasteading reaches the point where they are trying to form nations, they will have more nations than currently exist. Think alt coins but in the physical space. There may be some main ones but it will continuously be splitting off into other forms.

Yet, in the Seasteading that exists right now, there is a contract with the French Polynesian Government. Once there are, say, a hundred private structures built, there might be a hundred private contracts for visitors to each private structure. But they all fall under the French Polynesian Government contract.

This underlying Contract might allow anybody to take his chunk of island, and depart, no questions asked, any time he wants. And if it does, great! But if it doesn't, or if there are other rules, are they good rules, and how far into the future are they binding, and any number of other questions.

8)

Ahh, I see. Yes, the French Polynesia thing will have legal contracts and restrictions as agreed upon between Blue Frontiers and the French Polynesian government. But that one is far from happening. Still waiting on the government to get its act together which could be a few years.

The private seasteads (in a different location) will happen sooner than that.

Once we learn how to extract oxygen from the water easily, it will be Seabedding. After that, we will have Sea Wars... Seasteaders fighting Seabedders. The Seasteaders drop the bombs (depth charges). The Seabedders shoot the missiles (torpedoes).

8)

Thank you for the information about the benefits of seasteading, it is a very useful concept that is interlinked with decentralized currency

It would be interesting to see seasteading and aquaculture concepts together in real life. Dolphins the new sheep dogs and tuna the new sheep maybe.

Genesis spar in the water January 3, 2019.

https://i.imgur.com/9xrKu5I.jpg

Hate to say it, but it looks like a boat trailer that got unhitched.

8)

https://ocean.builders/the-worlds-first-seastead-is-in-the-water/

World's first seastead is in the water.

^^^ This is a good thing... if it can be sustained and grow. Ocean-going boats that people live on have been around for a long time.

8)

How much is one of these seasteads in Thailand?

^^^ Whatever you want to pay for it. "Seasteading" is simply a word that holds a deeper meaning for some. Move onto a houseboat, and you just might have seasteading.

How much? Whatever you can or want to spend. Lots of people have taken a nap in a canoe. Move into the canoe out on the ocean, and you just might be seasteading.

8)

Looks like Seasteading has more work to do. But, this could be a blessing in disguise. A group of Seasteaders just might be able to disable and capture one of these, and decompile them... if they aren't booby trapped.


Navy Ready To Unleash Killer Robot Ships On World’s Oceans (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/254727-2019-01-18-navy-ready-to-unleash-killer-robot-ships-on-worlds-oceans.htm)




She's a beauty in that picture, though, isn't she?


8)

Seasteading is not just living on a houseboat. It involves living at least 12 nautical miles outside of a nation's territorial waters.

A house boat cannot just sit in such waters due to the waves.

Ocean Builders seasteads are built on top of a spar which allows you to live above the waves.

As for price...we are targeting $150-$200k. First 20 will get the seastead at cost, and help to decide the way forward for future seasteading.

I agree with the idea of calculating the methods, and implementing something that is practical. I don't necessarily agree with the sovereign part.

Many nations have a 200 mile territorial waters distance.

A collection of houseboats somewhat rigidly attached can take the waves just like a seastead. But what about making them submersible for short periods?

I don't understand the spar. Is it attached to the bottom? Does it float with the bottom merely a flotation device underwater? How is it any different than things that have been attempted or done in the past? What's that famous ocean derrick kingdom called again?

8)

What the inflation did in less then 2 years :P


Joke aside, why are this 2 prices so different? Because you miscalculated back then since you did not understand all the problems or because back then house and everything was planed to be smaller or something like that?

There's the barebones minimum vs fully macked out version.

I figure there will be add ons like A/C, more solar, dynamic positioning system, teak floors, upgraded kitchen, etc.

There are already boating communities.

At 12nm out you have no laws other than things like resource laws (no drilling for oil, etc.) and no interfering with customs. The law of the sea which prevents "egregious acts" such as murder, slave trade, etc.

Twelve nm out? LOL.

When did the U.S. or any other country ever obey their treaty agreements except when they felt like it?

Ages ago the 200 miles was something for most of the nations of the world. They still have it, but it's called the "exclusive economic zone (EEZ)" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone. Changing the name doesn't change the fact that it really is territorial waters.

8)

Not everyone is like the US. Seasteading gets downplayed a lot because it likely cannot happen anywhere near the US. Because of hurricanes, huge waves and the US Navy.

There is a world outside of the US though.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Zonmar-en.svg/1717px-Zonmar-en.svg.png

You are evading the point. The point was the distance that various nations consider to be territorial waters - even though they often call it by another name.

Not all near US coastal waters are plagued by "hurricanes, huge waves and the US Navy." But if they were, so what? Perhaps you are the very first people who want to live on the ocean in exactly this way. And you certainly have my blessing in your project.


My only point is this. If you can do it alone, all by your little Elwar self, great. You don't really need any kind of agreement with anybody if you can do it this way... as long as you don't injure anybody. But if you need other people to work with you, then you need agreement(s) to determine your relationships.

Let's say that you along with a group of people are doing the seasteading thing, because it is too big for any of you do do it alone. Are you going to stay the course if the rest of the group decides on doing something that is completely against your ideas and ideals? Or do you want a way out built into the agreement... one where you don't lose too much of your investment?

Anybody getting in, needs this kind of agreement... a way out. And more than that, since seasteading is designed with the idea of "nation" in mind, what will be the structure of your government? I'm not asking for an answer. I am only stating that such is as important as the seasteading part itself. You need to be thinking this over as hard as you are thinking seastead, so that you are ready to put it in place when the actual seastead comes into practical being.

8)

I don't want seastead nations just as I do not want Bitcoin banks.

Collaborate as you see fit or don't collaborate at all.

I'm not saying "let's end nation states" I'm saying, let's create a better alternative.

All right! Now you are saying it a bit clearer, and more down to the bottom-line basics.

But what will you get when a couple of Chinese battleships slide into your 12mi territorial waters?

8)

Yeah. I know. A big fuel bill for a minute of battleship pleasure.     ;D

a couple scrapes along their hull?

Actually, Seasteading is the start to something better. How's that? Sea level atmosphere has more oxygen, so you breathe easier.

The goal should be to live under water much of the time. Like in a bubble that is open to the water near the bottom of it. With air pressure keeping the water out. This will force more oxygen into your body and brain, making you to be able to think better, so that you can invent all kinds of neat things.

You would come to the surface only long enough to get the euphoric feeling of less atmosphere. You wouldn't need psychedelic drugs any longer.

https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03575/planet4_3575178b.jpg (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/12157503/Humans-will-live-underwater-in-100-years-time-as-the-population-is-squeezed-out-of-cities.html)

8)

Exactly there is way more sea then land. So huge opportunity.

In one of his posts, Elwar said that a Seastead was more like an oil rig than a boat. Consider the Principality of Sealand - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand. It's not really Seasteading in the way Elwar wants. But, it is way more substantial and solid than Seasteading.

A floating oil rig that can be moved wherever is a wonderful concept. And the idea will grow. If some U-boat doesn't blow them out of the water while they are budding, there is a lot of potential.

8)

Actually Sealand is the closest thing to a seastead.

Sealand is only sovereign in as much as nobody is really interested. Same for Seasteading in its beginning. Things will be different when we have 100 billion on earth, and there are seasteads of various kinds all over the place.

8)

Ya, the hope is that early on nobody even pays attention. I wanted to put mine in the water before sharing it with the world because I learned from the Blue Frontiers French Polynesia fiasco that people and the media will paint a scary picture of what seasteading can be. If they see my little house in the water and people try to say it's scary then they'll try to figure out what's so scary about a small floating house in the water.

^^^

https://www.mynewyorkcitylawyer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/bigstock-White-house-in-water-flood-73336216.jpg (https://www.mynewyorkcitylawyer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/bigstock-White-house-in-water-flood-73336216.jpg)


 :D

Well, the platform actually acts as a life raft so hopefully it wouldn't look that bad.

Here it is being prepared for putting on the spar.

https://scontent.fbkk9-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50100564_10155938142371179_2696910265529663488_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeG-WtAZx2u_ABVjEWOO3LdFVXttcA1deXj6gtBC2Bjdz5jSiz7E05oOBGhwa6hws6bwLjxZce3Z2MaPAjw5m6mbqAksoArYkeVRIIvxy-TJUg&_nc_ht=scontent.fbkk9-2.fna&oh=c00953c87b6fc7a537bcd3b3714ff9a5&oe=5CC24B58

Unfortunately we had to call off the raising that day since the wind and waves just got worse throughout the day. Still waiting for some perfect waves, should be some time this week.

Once it is on the spar, will it remain balanced? Or will you have to keep whatever you have on it balanced to keep the whole spar balanced?

8)

That's the key question. No amount of computer models will tell us. The spar is pretty stable on its own. The platform is stable on its own. Hopefully the two combined is stable.

I know. First things first. But do you have thoughts of making a spar that is large enough in diameter to be an access tube to a "habitat" on the bottom end of the spar?

8)

a seastead with a basement. now that would be cool.

Or a string of basements:


8)

It is already a large 2 meter tube 20 meters deep. The water level should not come up to the 7 meter mark.

All of that 7 meters can be utilized. For storage or...I've really got my sights on a very large smoker...for smoking all of the fish I catch. And buying large amounts of meat and smoking it so it lasts longer. Another suggestions was a micro brew.

If the U.N. gets involved, even though the oceans are very large, they will want to control seasteading. A big U.N. ship visiting each small seastead with the command to sign up or die, might be a threat big enough to dissolve the freedom of most seasteaders.

The threat will be hidden, of course, as will be the causes of the natural disasters that overcome the seasteads that don't join.

DuckDuckGo (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=jim+stone+nuclear+tsunami&t=canonical&ia=images) search on "Jim Stone nuclear tsunami" - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=jim+stone+nuclear+tsunami&t=canonical&ia=images - to see that "they" aren't afraid to do whatever they want.


Floating cities once seemed like sci-fi. Now the UN is getting on board (https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/258907-2019-04-04-floating-cities-once-seemed-like-sci-fi-now-the-un.htm#comments)



The question has to do with how large a seasteading "city" can grow and yet remain outside of the gunsights of the U.N.

8)

https://www.businessinsider.com/un-floating-city-housing-hurricanes-2019-4

Knowing the people involved in this, I assume that this "UN roundtable discussion" was a few people gathered around a table at the UN building in New York. They may have had one employee of the UN with them. They discussed seasteading. Then marketed it as the UN wanting to build a floating city.

^^^ Absolutely! Anything the UN promotes will have a contract between them and the people using their promotion. If you don't cross out adverse points, write in your good points, and maintain a line that states that you have the right to withdraw any time for any reason, taking your property with you (and make sure you term your property correctly), you'd be wise to forget the UN.

8)

Hi Elwar,

Can you confirmed this?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30367861


Hope you are doing ok mate.

I'm suitably impressed that Elwar actually went as far as to get something which basically floats rather than just floating some pie-in-the-sky idea and pocketing people's money.

I think one ingredient to setting up a 'sovereign' place is to not do it in someone else's 'sovereign' place.  Doing so seems to be asking for trouble.  Easier said than done these days though.  IIRC, the UN has claimed ownership of all ocean surfaces not listed as territorial waters by the various nation states.

Oh well, there is always outer space.  Surely it won't cost more than a couple thousand to set up shop out there.  Hurry though.  The UN will likely be claiming that to if they have not done so already.  Oh wait...Asgardia already got that first (in their minds at least.)  Maybe they are just claiming low earth orbit.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_UeESh60_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_UeESh60_A)

Ok so it looks like they the Thai government suddenly see Elwar and his seasteading project a threat? This is just purely an attack on seasteading practice since it's slowly gaining grounds.

I would reckon that he and his girlfriend are hiding, you don't want to be thrown in jail in Thailand. And I really hope that he can survived all of this because we all know that Elwar is one of the early investors on crypto and he build his project from his bitcoin earnings.

Perhaps Thailand area waters are the best suited for Elwar's project. Elevations of the oceans can be found here - https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/bathymetry/ - in the event he wants to move. However, there may be reasons that make other suitable elevations to be just as hostile as Thailand.

8)

Two ways to swap 'sovereignty' in the real world (as opposed to the theoretical mind of your average anarchist) would be to defeat a standing claimant in battle and deal with the fallout in terms of global recognition, or to buy it.  Doesn't seem to me that Elwar and his compadres did either.  If they did it was not reported in the news article.

Probably there are cheaper places to buy in.  One suspects the appeal of being a few hundred meters off the shores of Thailand is that opportunities to leave the outpost of danger and boredom for the land of sexual perversion and drugs are vastly greater in that locale than, say, Rongelap atoll.

Seasteading isn't such a crazy idea after all.


The world's first FLOATING CITY could become a reality within a decade under UN-backed... (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/276605-2020-02-10-the-worlds-first-floating-city-could-become-a-reality-within.htm)




8)

Where did you go Elwar? Hope things are good.

Didn't we hear that he was going to Anarchapulco? That's this month. Did it happen yet?

8)

EDIT: Anarchapulco is on right now... until the 16th - https://anarchapulco.com/tickets-2020/.

Meet The Seasteading Couple On The Run From Insane Thailand Trouble! (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/276965-2020-02-17-meet-the-seasteading-couple-on-the-run-from-insane-thailand.htm)


Meet The Seasteading Couple On The Run From Insane Thailand Trouble!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_FzJtZB538E/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEjCPYBEIoBSFryq4qpAxUIARUAAAAAGAElAADIQj0AgKJDeAE=&rs=AOn4CLD6i8wdcLGnpri1uYKM4QVXIRhhhg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FzJtZB538E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FzJtZB538E)


8)

Yup they moved to Panama and project become way more serious now https://ocean.builders/ocean-builders-manufacturing-facility-gets-the-first-pour/    They know where they went wrong in Thailand. And that is what matters.

Elwar said in the video I linked above - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FzJtZB538E - something to the effect of how he is going to show Thailand what they missed out on... a business that could have made them money. But, the UN is talking about getting into seasteading, and Thailand can easily copy anything that Elwar does. And this brings us to a point.

We are staring at a race. The race is, free seasteading vs. formal seasteading by nations. People who are talking seasteading are giving ideas to nations. What if Bangladesh started making a formal Bangladesh-seastead, part of their nation, that could float anywhere, at the same time reducing their mainland population. What will happen when all the nations of the world do this formally?

Note that in the https://ocean.builders/ocean-builders-manufacturing-facility-gets-the-first-pour/ website, they are also talking about building a landstead. What does this all mean for the future?

8)

badecker. have you already forgot the drama...

elwar pretended he was heading up a project and asking for money from loads of people..
he got into trouble and then pretended he was just a guest of someone elses project that had nothing to do with setting up a micronation and that was not his or anyones intent.

did you truly forget all that stuff
come on for someone so obsessed with knowing the bible you must has some kind of recall..

even funier thing even after the elwar drama. the group elwar associated withstill didnt learn the lessons of elwars drama and continued money grabbing and saying to build plots just 20 miles off shore.
....

i for years have been telling elwar the flaws of his project.
1. sanitation (waste disposal and environmental impact)
2. resource/food sustainability vs importing
3. power generation. living space

the 'pod' that was involved in elwars drama was not even fit for sustainable living. even elwar admits that he didnt stay on it 24/4

i think you really need to look for a different guy to be the head guy for truly viable seasteading. elwar is not it.
and for the whole micronation citizenship wishes and promises and hopes.. forget it. elwar has absolutely no clue

here is the funny. elwar is just looking for new projects for the money grab and that has been pointed out over many years.
all he wants is free vacations where he gets others to pay for them under the guise that they are funding elwar to project manage a future home for the investor.. but elwar treats it like donations with no refund policy.

as for the latest project. its not a micronation of a city. its a boat facility making boats the size of under 10metres in any direction.(the ocean builders link you provided hinted at this by their 15-30 dimensions of the facility doing 3 builds at a time)

if you actually do research you will see elwar and his lil gang are not making micronation cities. they are making boats
but still have not solved all the self sustainability and environmental risks associated.

oh and if you think this project is new and revolutionary.. you need to use google more
google image search: floating houses
then realise that elwar and his friends are not even making that. they are making adapted boats

Thanks franky1. I really never knew the details about Elwar. But you had mentioned it before.

You should really look at what they are doing, now. They are setting up a new business to start seasteading. I think their prices are too high, but you have to start somewhere.

Obviously, people have been living on boats for ages. Personally I might like the boat idea better. But if they can make it work, then others can. This is what the world needs... more entrepreneurs.

8)

Yep, Franky is absolutely correct.

What we are building in Panama are house boats. We are not claiming any micronations, no sovereignty other than what any other boater gets to enjoy.

I am fully hopeful that other companies get out and start building because we would all rather be living on these things rather than building them ourselves but nobody is doing so.

I grew tired of the megasuperstructure seasteads that required hundreds of millions of dollars in funding. I kept screaming to the Blue Frontiers people to "just build something already!". So when I met the aeronautical engineer, Rudiger Koch, down in Thailand who had already begun building I was all on board and was happy to test drive his prototype by living on it and promoting the concept of building more.

I will be the first to say that no seastead should, right now, be fully sustainable. Nor should any house or state or nation. I don't think Hong Kong or Singapore are any less sovereign for not producing their own rice or microprocessors for their computers. I don't think seasteaders should focus on having cattle ranches on the sea.

We are building floating homes. We are setting up manufacturing, moving full steam ahead on producing as many of these homes as possible while trying to keep the prices down. We are skipping the early stages that we would have done in Thailand of contracting out the manufacturing to another company (that would gouge us on cost because they could). We are setting up a full manufacturing facility in Panama with an assembly line for getting these things out the door, all within a marina where we can lower them into the water to a well protected location in an anchorage close to the marina.

This is certainly not seasteading, I will be the first to say that seasteading requires some sort of sovereignty. We proved we can build homes in the open ocean in Thailand. Now we're working out the manufacturing process while focusing on having a comfortable living experience for our customers.

We are not doing any fundraising, creating beautiful pictures of a city that will never exist only to collect millions of dollars while we talk about what we're going to do using that money to try to get more millions. We're using our own money to build these SeaPods. We won't collect any money until after our first one is built and people can come down and walk around in it and try it out for themselves. Our goal is building these homes with one or two per month, so if anyone puts down their 20% deposit, they should be able to move in within a month. Ocean Builders is currently taking $100 refundable deposits for people to indicate their interest and reserve their place in line.
Previously we just had a check box on our website for people to indicate their willingness to buy (so we could gauge interest on whether to move forward with building a manufacturing site), while we had over 200 people indicate that they wanted to buy one, we decided to put in the refundable deposit option (following Tesla's example as they did with the Cybertruck) so that we could get a better indication of how serious people are about buying.

Once we have a community living on the water, we will be working with them on future plans. We already have a 1/3rd scale prototype for the open ocean. We are following flagging laws in Panama before putting that prototype in the open sea. We already tested a 1/3 scale prototype for the shallow water version. It's sitting in the marina right now.


We will be building LandPods.
As we began working on these, Ocean Builders' CEO ran into a wealthy land owner in Panama that had plans to build an eco-resort at his coffee plantation. He had plans for some tree houses but after seeing our design said he wanted our homes instead. So we are working with him to build about 10 of them for his resort. With the center tube only being 1.6m diameter, it's great for putting them on the ground in a place where a normal home would not do well, saving the trees from being cut down to make room for the home while being high enough to look out over the trees or be among the treetops with the parrots, monkeys and sloths. His order is helping us to kick start the build process knowing we have orders and can move forward. The design is almost exactly the same so as we move forward on those orders we can replicate the effort for our floating homes.


Whatever happened in Thailand, we proved that you can live on a floating home in middle of the ocean. The genie is out of the bottle on that one. The ocean is the next frontier. Not even the most corrupt navy can take away that fact.

I noticed that yesterday when checking their website. Why not to offer them. Maybe there will be market for them maybe not. More that they will sell cheaper will be average costs and at the end the price. So land "sea" steads can make seasteads cheaper.

There it is, right above your post. Elwar says it himself:
I spend too much time talking in things like this forum. I should be out there doing, right along with Elwar.

8)

elwar. it might have taken you 5 years to come to your senses of things i knew back then. but it seems your finally realising you were over promising and under delivering.

as for the 'landstead'
i hope you have not just sold the land owner an idea. have you even thought about things like if the pods are pre-fabbed in a factory. how the cranes and trucks are going to get between the tree's to position it all.
i cant see a group of men 'heave hoing' a 1.6m diameter and 20-40metre tall metal pole on their shoulders weaving in between tree's and over rocks and roots..

after all to be 'all around parrots, monkeys and sloths' indicate that its more of a forest land and not just some garden/woodland area'

again. electric and sanitation (fresh water/sewage) seem to be area's you are yet again not thinking about.
people carrying in freshwater and carrying out waste..

obviously if the landpod is going to be powered (presuming solar) the pod would nee to be above a tree canopy.
seems you just keep skipping over the basics

and all that it would be used for is just 'watch towers' for wild life fans to use for half a day tour

Are there any pictures of this 1/3rd scale prototype or a video?  I imagine this is just a shell of a seapod or I totally misunderstood you what this prototype is?

source of your all too common statement?

We have a lot of pictures and video but not much on the web yet.

You can see it in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzFxKUxx9nE

We only did the 1/3rd scale of the spar to test the stability. We will build a scale of the pod portion in the next few weeks when we get the 3D printer installed.

your post history for one.

also look at the video you just linked in previous post. at 13 seconds where your fortlifting the spire into the water. all looks good from an open field into the open water.. but just try doing the same thing in a deep forest. you know as you said yourself surrounded by trees and animals and without needing to cut down tree's..

id love to see how you get through the forest with that one

but one very common thing you keep missing is the utilities. water, sewerage and electric.

last time i checked your thailand pod was not even solar powered
even when the army turned up.. no solar power to actually be a running 'home'
https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/10216091d/c7a247c6/thai-navy-dismantles-a-seastead-floating-living-platform-off-phuket-sea-andaman-sea-thailand-shutterstock-editorial-10216091d.jpg

but atleast you admitted . only after you got caught. that you never intended it to be a home or seastead or micronation.. yet post history and blogs and videos before getting caught said the opposite.

Again...source?


You literally just posted a picture of the solar panels on top of the seastead (which ran our water maker which you keep going on and on about).

6 240 Watt panels connected to 6 12V marine batteries, plenty of energy for our refrigerator, lights, water pump, water maker and wall sockets for charging our phones, laptops, repeater (for 22Mbps Internet) and marine radios.


But you do not listen so I am going back to ignoring you and your "you (and the many people working on this project) aren't thinking about "<insert things we're constantly thinking about here>" due to not explaining every little thing to me online (even though I have no intention of ever supporting the project and will only ignore or twist anything you say and make up my own BS to fit my narrative).

Elwar, you are a breath of fresh air in an otherwise stagnant forum.

8)

what i saw was grating and a fuel powered blue generator
but it was pretty interesting in another youtube video how you tried to denounce how involved you were by saying it never intended to be  seastead/micronation. it wasnt your project and how you were just a guineapig couple who volunteerd to stay there now and again

anyway. all i see is you now doing it all over again promising these glamorous pods as homes. but then i see you later retract statements and say nah they just nature watching posts for people to hire for the day as they were never intended to meet 'living' standards

i know you cant see the wood through the trees or you would not even even done concept art of your CGI pods in the middle of a tight wooded area. literally how you gonna gets all that stuff between the trees.
go on retract statements of middle of woodland amungst nature and say how its suddenly only gonna be at the edge of wildlife looking in

i know all your interested in is making money. but can you atleast not oversell things as things they will never become what originally promoted as
do you atleast admit your other mistakes of the past like trying to fundraise to buy a large boat for multiple millions where the end purpose was just going to be for your 'organisation' to have meetings on..

and all the proposals for micronations

You are missing Elwar's point. His involvement has to do with not being involved formally. This means, that as far as he will say, and that as far as anybody in the public knows, he isn't involved. What he does in private is for him and his privacy to know.

8)

and your missing the point. for years. elwar has been on a money grabbing effort.. which affects other people. so elwars private life has nothing to do with anything. its what he is pubicly doing and proposing and trying to show off as being involved an and then retracting later and pretending no promises were made.

elwar is following similar steps as CSW pretending to be one thing. but never delivering but then keepp on trying to raise money


i have nothing against TRUE pioneers of TRUE seastead projects.
but greedy money grabbing snake water salesmen i have something against

How in the world dense are you? People work at Walmart for money. Why? Because they aren't smart enough to "grab" their money in a different way. You don't think that they are there because they like it, do you?

Why not Elwar working in a private business that he isn't telling us that he even has? Formally we don't know that he is working in a private business. If it's public, why don't you show us the paperwork from a government that shows he is actively in a public business? If he is a crook, why don't you show the lawsuits or court judgements against him? All you do is blab.

What about you and me? Are you on some form of money grab by talking about other people being on a money grab? Maybe you are filthy rich and don't care to do this. I sure could use a little more money. But my private info is private. And you can guess all day long about what my private stuff is. But you really should have something legitimate to back it up, shouldn't you.

If Elwar is working a public business, he will have his shingle out. So what? Lots of people are doing this. Lots of people have made mistakes. Some have paid for their mistakes; others haven't paid. In fact, the whole banking industry is ripping everybody off through inflation and creations of new money that they call loans all the time. But you want to pick on poor, little Elwar.

Are you jealous of Elwar that he lived in freedom for a short time in international waters? Are you jealous of him that he was able to escape a whole load of Thailand government pirates who came after him? Are you envious that he travels? Do you think he feels good that his operations fell through, and that he barely escaped with his life?

I feel kinda sorry for you. You seem to be tied to a bitter life of perpetual slavery. Over in the country of Western Sahara, the informal slaves over their have been in bondage to their masters' houses for generations. They don't even know that there is anything else other than slavery. That's how deeply it is embedded in them. But you, at least, can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

You, at least, have an inkling that there is freedom available. You sorta know what it looks like. Why don't you become free rather than picking on other people who are free? You are so funny. You pick on the freedom of other people, yet use your freedom to remain in bondage. Get a life!

8)

lawsuits... hmm.. thai government want him..
trouble.. the military confiscated the pod

as for living free.. yea he promoted himself as one thing to get money from people but without any real understanding of what hewas promising to offer and from the looks of it no intention to actually offer it.

the difference between a walmart worker and elwar is that people know what they are getting for their money. they see a price they go to the checkout and they pay for it.  as for what elwar pretends of offer. people dont get what they are offered, all while he spends their money on vacations.

its called lack of morals and ethics

i personally travel alot. and i do ETHICAL business.. i am even mindful to not promote my business dealings on this forum because i have the ability to actually not want to promote stuff.
my business dealings are legit and ethical.. i know you dont understand those concepts. but it might help you to try learning them.

i am not jealous or envious. i am more of the kind of person that gets pissed off with unethical scammers and morons. pissed off with people who have no clue what they are on about.. yep people like you that has no clue about hw the real law works and has no real clue about religion. but you constantly promote your warped views

no one is or should be jealous or envious of unethical people.

i personally have done some projects about housing real estate, business startups, environmental stuff.. and when i came across elwars project years ago  was interested. but then when i seen all the holes and flaws and crap. i soon learned that elwar was not that interested in what he was promoting he was just interested in the finances and the lifestyle he can live from sch unethical crap.

this aint to do with law or justice. this is about human caring, morals and ethics.. however elwar has also got himself into some legal problems too. so that cant be ignored

anyway i do not find it strange how you follow and fanboy over unethical people. so dont be surprised by me calling them type of people out

So you think you are protecting some people by warning them away from Elwar, right? Or is it that you are only wanting to badmouth somebody, and Elwar happened to be available. Because that's what it seem like. And you haven't provided with any sources as even evidence for what you say, to say nothing about proof. Sounds more like you are slandering him. Slandering people is illegal as well as unlawful. You are getting yourself into big dodo.

8)

I just found out about it. I heard a long time ago about casino ships in countries where casinos are prohibited, but I hear about accommodation for the first time. If you do this, you need to carefully consider where to get food, where to take out the garbage, etc. But the idea is good!

The casinos on ships are not in the countries. The ships might be registered with a country. But when they do their casino activities, they do it outside of the 12-mile limit, so that they are in international waters.

Many governments want to legalize international waters. The UN has been trying to do this for years. The point is that legal anywhere is important only when there is military or police strength to uphold and enforce the legal activity.

Might doesn't always make what is right, but it always makes what exists.

8)

The generator was necessary for running the water pumps that we used to pump the water out of the spar after lowering it to put the platform on top. We used it for some welding as well and decided to keep it there as a backup generator.

You like to mix the 3 different projects I've been involved in to somehow be one project. I worked with a couple of guys about 6 years ago on a project called Marinea. The plan for that was initially to build a large concrete seastead in the Bahamas, we spent about a year planning the design and working on things like "how do we get water, Internet, electricity, food, waste disposal, etc."...typical stuff you discuss when talking about seasteading. We sent letters to some people in government of the Bahamas (by "we", I don't mean we all sat there writing a document). The architect and construction guy had a disagreement with the marketing guy who was in charge so the marketing guy shifted focus to buying a floating hotel that he had been researching for years (he sent his brother down to Florida to inspect it, I saw it once as I drove by but never got on it). With all of the SEC laws that prevent people from raising money, the strategy for raising funds to buy the boat was through some sort of membership deal. Pay $100 for membership and you get some sort of benefits at the hotel (free night, etc.). The marketing guy had big dreams that we'd get tens of thousands of people joining up. Once we were ready to move forward on it I posted a couple of times about the idea (which Franky immediately attacked). I was the only one in that project that actually put money into it. I did not have a huge amount of money but I put $10k toward the project so we could get the website going and pay for things like establishing a company, opening a bank account, paying for some professional renderings of our final design, etc.
They only had about 5 people buy membership which were all refunded after we realized we would not raise the $10 million or so needed to make things work.

Marinea is still trying to exist but it's just one guy and his wife with the dream of buying that floating hotel.

Taking the lessons learned from that experience I moved on to the more prominent project from the Seasteading Institute of Blue Frontiers. I flew to Tahiti to meet everyone involved at their conference. There were about 100 people at the conference and there was a great energy of people wanting to make this happen. So I jumped into that project as a volunteer focusing on blockchain solutions for the seastead. With all of the very intelligent people involved and the Memorandum of Understanding with French Polynesia I was confident that this project would actually happen after 10 years of seastead talk. Fortunately at that time the bitcoin price was going up to $20k and I no longer needed to work at my day job and I was able to retire thanks to bitcoin. I did invest about a quarter million into Blue Frontiers but was only one of several major investors. My role in that company was as a volunteer because I wanted it to work out and put my money where my mouth was. They spent about 10 months working on the funding strategy working with lawyers and ICO companies, they had a call with Vitalik, they were spending a lot of money so they had a lot of high profile individuals involved trying to figure out the whole situation of building in French Polynesia while trying to raise money from every nation in the world, including the US and its draconian laws. Their final solution was a token called Varyon which would be a token used as payment for anything related to Blue Frontiers (an Ethererum smart contract), Blue Frontiers would be in charge of the sea zone so this would allow them to charge for use of the sea zone. I promoted Varyon as much as I could as one of hundreds of people promoting it (everyone else was getting paid to do so, I did it out of passion for the project).
The ICO went live as bitcoin was crashing and the ICO bubble had popped. Part of the smart contract included a signed contract that refunded all of the money if they did not reach X number of varyon purchased. They raised almost a million dollars but fell short of the goal by about $50k (not many people knew about the refund until it was too late). All of the money was refunded (except us initial investors who were left with nothing).

Blue Frontiers still has the occasional meeting and I believe they are still trying to find a country that will give them a sea zone, but they are likely out of money by now.

As I was wrapping things up with Blue Frontiers I met this german aeronautical engineer in Bangok (Rudiger). He had already begun working on his floating platform and explained that his ultimate goal is to build a launch loop for launching payloads into space. I left Tahiti and went to see what he was working on in Thailand. He had the spar and platform being built by two separate companies. The spar was being built by a steel company that was used to building large pontoons for gold mining rigs. The platform was being built by a french boat builder who specialized in large party catamarans.
I arrived in Thailand and stayed on Rudiger's yacht as we discussed seasteading and the idea that if he wants to build a launch loop in middle of the ocean he'll need a full city of floating homes for the workers as well as supporting businesses and structures, etc. He liked that he would be able to go back to his home town and work on his superconductors while my girlfriend and I stayed on the seastead (which was initially meant just as a watch tower for his launch prototype). He thought it would be a good idea to replicate these things and sell them. His goal not being to make any money off of them (he's Vladmir club wealthy), but to get things built up so he can have homes for the workers of the launch loop. I volunteered to help, my gf speaks Thai and English so she was useful in translating with the steel workers. We would visit the sites when he was off working on his superconductor experiments and give him status reports. I brought my full SCUBA gear and he had plenty of his own so we would go diving at the site and sailing, I began some biorock experiments because he wanted to build large structures in the water and we felt that biorock was a viable option as the price of solar comes down. He paid for the full build of the platform and spar. I would catch a check here and there as he was letting me stay on his boat but it was Thailand so I was hardly spending any money (fortunately since the bitcoin price had dipped). I put Rudiger in contact with everyone he needed to talk to through my contacts with Ocean Builders and the Seasteading Institute. After having seen so many crypto projects get started promising the world only to never deliver I stressed that we should not advertise the sale of any of our seasteads until we had one in the water. We were excited about the project as it moved forward but kept it under wraps publicly because we did not want to promise something only for the thing to fail and disappoint a lot of people (like with Blue Frontiers). We also didn't want to waste money on advertising and marketing (avoiding all of the failures of Blue Frontiers) and lawyers and endless money pit meetings, etc. We did contact a few lawyers in Thailand and spoke to the harbor master about what we were doing. Each lawyer told us that because what we were doing was 12nm out Thailand had no say in it. The harbor master didn't want to be bothered by it (it didn't fit into any category he knew how to deal with). So our plan was to prove ourselves to Thailand by building the first structure then getting 20 orders to show Thailand that we would be bringing money to their country. We planned on taking a 1% deposit keeping the first 20 homes at or below the cost to build them. We brought out a group of people from Blue Frontiers who were likely customers to show them the launch of the seastead. Unfortunately the biggest storm in 60 years hit on the week we planned to launch so we had to postpone (still not going public). Joe Quirk brought a camera crew for the event and got plenty of good footage for his videos. Once we got it in the water I started posting blogs and contacting friendly independent media (I had been talking to Reason about it for a while and we've been talking to a journalist at Wired who is still working with us). I posted on bitcointalk but of course Franky attacked me talking about Blue Frontiers and Marinea and how we don't know what solar panels are and have no idea that there are off the shelf water makers that our boat manufacturer has been installing on boats for years.
That venture left me down about $100k worth of stuff in Thailand (my boat, vehicle, all of my possessions on the seastead, etc.).

So now we move forward in Panama. At this point I am more than a volunteer. I am now one of the founders along with our CEO that joined us to move forward on the business side. We are still only taking deposits toward peoples' homes. Refundable $100 deposit which will require 20% deposit when we begin building the customer's actual home (likely to take place this summer). We already have a few people that have reserved their SeaPods. Each of the founders plans on buying one, we have the eco resort guy and we've actually not even started advertising that we are taking deposits yet outside of Anarchapulco and silently updating our website. I have an e-mail list of about 1000 people who have expressed interest on the website that I have not updated yet. We're all still getting back from travel before we begin letting them know. We are busy setting up our factory (the building material just arrived last week). The concrete has been poured for the footings and we pour the floor next week. Our 3D printer has been delayed but we will finally get that in about a month (we've been waiting for that for a while to get moving forward). The coronavirus has delayed our rolling machine and crane for the factory but we're hoping they all get here around the beginning of April (hopefully the factory is finished by then).

Ocean Builders' ultimate goal is a space launch, it always has been. That's why in Thailand I knew that when they were charging us with trying to create a new nation they would not find any evidence of it because that was never the goal. Sure, as a libertarian I am in it for the ability to live somewhere away from territorial law, but as I have stated many times, a seastead nation makes about as much sense as a bitcoin bank. It seems people who supposedly understand Bitcoin don't even grasp that concept.

We're moving forward, all with our own money. We don't actually need investors and Rudiger does not want any (until he's built his small scale launch loop prototype). We've spent around half a million of our own money so far moving this project forward in Panama. Workers are happy, Panama is happy, we are going to make sure our customers get the most awesome homes they've ever seen. If the bitcoin price hits $40k or higher...this project is going to be crazy funded (we are all bitcoin hodlers).

Not sure what to tell ya, we're going to make it happen. You'll just have to sit back and witness history being made from behind your computer screen.

^^^ Thanks for the history and update, Elawr.     8)

and there it is history
starting websites advertising, bank accounts, ICO's, tokens, fundraising.
just proves that was elwars  historical plans. money money money

and nice back track how your now saying the thailand pod was not some part of advertising seasteads sales pitch. but was a already in the works space launch. now saying intended only as pods for workers wanting to work on a space launch project.. hmm.. yet you been advertising it as part of your seasteading projects.

and yes that $10m floating hotel.. only a couple dozen rooms but wanting thousands of investors. promising them rooms for the night. .. can you even basic math that.
especially how you wanted them rooms also available for your project crew as a HQ. meaning less 'guest' rooms available. cold you even basic maths that back then. or was the fake promise worth more to you financially than to actually articulate the problems you'd have if people actually wanted to get what you promised

come on lets use elwar maths
say 5 rooms spare for guests. thats less than 10k nights spread over 5 rooms over 5 years. where each guest wants 1 night only. yep allowed only 1 night. and may have to wait upto 5 years
you want people to invest $1k for 1 night each... and may not even see a night on the boat for upto 5 years
.. oh and thats best case numbers.
needing 10,000 investors and no gaps inbetween where by the staff, cleaning lady and repair guy dont have any delays

...
and again back tracking the promises of the creating a 'self governing cities'
oh and the whole 12nm.. ha ha ha
ill draw it again
______|     O      |______  12nm line
            \ ~~~~ /
________\____/________ land line
(hint. building at 12mn then has a overlap(~) because the 'self governing cities' 12nm overlaps(~) thailands 12nm)
meaning need to be 25nm away to have no overlap(~) and atleast 1nm gap between to have a buffer
heck im not even an expert. nor lawyer but i seen that problem coming up as soon as i heard the distance it was being built at.
it took me 10 seconds of basic maths and no costs to work that one out(and you said you seeked out experts and lawyers who said it was fine)

just like i see your lack of addressing the sanitation problems
i know your more into the desires of real estate profits. you need to really think more about environmental impact of such as that is starting to become the priority number one stumbling block of getting things greenlighted.
for years i have tried to question you on that and you have always failed the test of explanation.

yea you are great at buzzwords and gimmicks to sound good. making it sound like everything is planned. but end results show the opposite.
have you even looked at the hint i gave you about the wood through the forest poke
or are you still just concentrating on getting mailing lists of people wanting to throw money at you
seems thats all you want to highlight mostly. the money side

lots of concept art, lots of memes, lots of buzzwords.
but have you even got a tape measure out to see if a pod can even be forklifted into a proposed wooded area you advertise
or are you just highlighting the mailing list of $100 deposit requirements

Ocean Builders is getting an Erectorbot 3D printer. One of the largest 3D printers in the world.

http://www.erectorbot.com/

Are you getting investment funds to buy this, or are you using your own funds like before? Is this what you are going to use to build your seastead/landstead structures. Please pardon me for sounding like I mean you personally. You have previously explained that you are not part of the business, at least formally.

8)

Ocean Builders' engineer, Rudiger, bought it with his own funds. He is a big bitcoin holder.

As the bitcoin price rises, our project will thrive with it.

Thanks, Elwar.     8)

Here is the latest video in the series: "The First Seasteaders"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OovkeOuZsqU

Is it possible to build boats with that thing?

$10k for 1 week time share... are you kidding me
you havnt even bought a single one and already want to grab money and not even let people own a hole pod in full.

and.. you think you can then get the investor to sub-let that to a airBnB customer for that week
seriously you need to sack your accountant. and project manager. and fundraiser. and lawyer

elwar even now you still just aint getting the point are you
stop stroking your ego trying to make out your sacagewea of the lewis and clarke expedition
not only is it a bad reference. but just .. no.. you aint

to be honest you latest video where you tag the guy 'sea jobs' has a bit more rep then you. maybe its time to take a step back and let people with a real eco-sea passion take over a eco-sea project.

i cant believe you presented the latest video as a anti-gov propaganda piece without realising how legally you were in the wrong, and thinking you were just a couple living in their home being free. .. then getting people around you to then say you didnt build it, own it, you were just staying there a while..
dang. even now you cant even edit a straight narrative together.

i say all this because seasteading and eco projects actually fascinate me both personally and professionally. and years ago i was looking for investments and hobbies. but you elwar have been the thorn in the project that has detracted me from it and even times i thought of suggesting a few things to help.. i then rethought my thoughts and decided you were not worthy of the tips.

but anyways. i digressed.
lets get back to my initial thought of the latest project you are trying to promote.
again dang your time shares are ridiculous especially when your hoping for those investors to make their money back from airBnB.
i still think you need a math teacher
its just as bad as your previous project of wanting millions to buy a boat to use as a HQ/office and occassional one night-guests

seriously try any let someone else be the front man of the project. even that 'sea jobs' guy(grant romundt) sounds better than you

What are you even yammering about. All of us who have an opinion that we express here in the forum are stroking our own egos at least a little.

Does it make you feel good that you can stroke your ego in ways that nobody else even knows what you are talking about? Are you so jealous of Elwar and his successes that you can't even recognize the tremendous stuff that he does? Did you get slapped down so badly by a UK court one time, that all you can do now is yammer and babble, and babble against others?

It seems that you like your comfortable slavery. Is it really comfortable being a slave? Most people have places to go, people to see, and things to do. But all we see from you is places to stay away from, things to remain in the dark about, and people to do.

8)

badecker. your the one in the dark
i go places. i do my research. i invest. and i do things.
just take a look at elwars supposed successes
day one im living free on a seastead. im sacagewea
day 60 i didnt own it i didnt make it i was just a temporary vacation guest, a no body, please dont imprison me for breaking the law

by the way even in the 2 months t was at sea. elwar couldnt even manage to stay there for 60 nights.
he just wanted to borrow a completely different project. fame it up as being the seastead project for a money grab

All you said was a bunch of stuff you don't know about Elwar. Elwar is great. He isn't lying. All the things he says, he says in such a way that he expresses what he wants people to know... without expressing lies, but at the same time keeping his private life private.

With regard to Elwar's high speed, most of us, and especially you, should speed up to stop a little.

8)

We made Grant our CEO a few weeks ago. The plan is to transition things to him as the face of the company for things moving forward in Panama. I am certainly happy to be out of the spotlight. I was more protecting our engineer from the spotlight as he is socially...well, he's a great engineer.

If you want to create your own business and believe you can do it better then great! We are open sourcing our design, we want these in the water. All of us involved just want to live on the ocean so if someone else does it better then that makes our lives easier. I am retired so this is just my passion project.

I would hope that other companies would sprout up creating great homes on the ocean but having been involved in seasteading for a dozen years now I know that it is mainly people just talking on the Internet and nobody actually doing anything. So until that time, we will be the ones actually doing anything while the arm chair quarterbacks sit back and talk about what we should have done while they don't do anything at all.

im glad you finally see my point by your own admissions. that even after a dozen years. all you managed to achieve was to be a guest on a space research pod that was not an actual 'seasteading/bluewater/oceanbuilder' project
(remember you yourself denounced association with its funding/designing/involvement)

so im glad your finally realising your lack of results even after all them investment campaigns and world wide conference tours

I never claimed that I built/designed/funded the first seastead. I'll wait while you provide proof to the contrary.

There is a world outside of Bitcointalk. I seem to be the only seasteader on this forum but there are a lot of people involved in the different projects going on. And our project is certainly not the only one.

Somehow you believe I am the only person controlling all projects and speak for all seasteaders. Big praise but I am not worthy of such a high regard.

I wonder how much you hounded the first guy to test drive a Tesla, telling him he hadn't thought about driving distance or where to charge his battery.

Thank you, franky1. You have given me the best laugh I have had in a while.

Come on. Fess up. You are really notbatman, aren't you.

If you had listened to what Elwar said in other posts and in his videos, you would have caught the point that living out on a spar for months isn't something people generally desire. His boat was always there, to take him to an island that was visible on the horizon (sorry about using "horizon," notbatman).

Real seasteading includes island-like living, only man-made... you know, with grass, and trees, and hills, and rocks, and gardens, etc.

Look at how long it is taking Dubai to build its floating paradise. And they have $billions to work with... maybe $trillions. Do you really want to live on a spar? People who don't have Dubai $billions are simply starting where they can. Have you applied for a job with Elwar's people, yet?

LOL.

8)

Yes it is not about prohibited or not but about paying taxes. There are casinos in Florida so should be slowed also in Miami port. But If ships would allow gambling close to Florida coast then they would need to follow Florida gambling regulations and pay taxes there. 15 years ago I worked on a cruise ship and casinos simply started working after ship go to international waters. Same with the shops. On cruise ships that also makes sense. When on sea everything is open, when the ship dock then people go off the ship. So there is not even need to have casino and shops open. Even most bars are closed during port days. And crew members can go off the ship or take a long sleep.

I've been to one of these casinos in Florida. I got on a ferry that took us 12 miles out to a casino boat. We sat out there gambling all day then came back on the ferry.

I have no idea how they pay taxes or if they do at all.

The thing US seasteaders do not understand is that by living in international waters they are subject to paying US income taxes as if they are in the US. People who live outside of the US get the Foreign Earned Income tax credit which makes it so that their first $100k of income is tax free if they live in another country.
But if you are in international waters you are not in a foreign country. So the default goes back to paying full US income taxes.

This has been demonstrated in court cases, one man on a contract in the Antarctic tried to claim the Foreign tax credit. He was turned down due to not being in a foreign country.

So the whole idea of seasteading being a tax haven is false. You must pay more taxes (as Americans).

Except for one major point. Income taxation in America is voluntary. The IRS even says it in their paperwork.

If taxation is voluntary, why do people lose in court? In the same way that they would lose if they fought anybody incorrectly in court. For example. If I said you owed me $100,000 and took you to court on it, if you didn't fight me, or if you fought in the wrong way, you might wind up owing me $100,000 by court judgment, even if you didn't owe me the money before.

The IRS has done it like this, only in a way that they trick you into losing. They built all kinds of stuff into law so that they confuse the heck out of everybody. People don't know the correct way to fight because of this. Yet even though there is all this IRS law, it has been shown by its own written paperwork to not really be law. So, where is the trick located that binds people into paying?

It starts out in agreements that people make with the IRS. The IRS Form W-4, for example, that a person signs with his employer, is an initial agreement that a person has with the IRS, through his employer. By answering the questions/points on the Form W-4, the person is stating - in a hidden way - that he is making an agreement with the IRS. If, instead, the person filled out Form W-4 with "n-a" on all the lines, wrote "EXEMPT" or "EXCLUDED" across the form, and signed it "non-assumpsit (no contract), signature," the employer is supposed to NOT withhold, and the IRS is not supposed to collect.

If the IRS demands a 1040, the same can be done directly to the IRS by filling out the 1040 in a similar way as the Form W-4... "n-a" on all the lines, "EXEMPT" or "EXCLUDED" across the form, and signed "non-assumpsit, signature."

Notice that most letters the IRS sends, are not signed. But if they are, it's a facsimile signature... not a live IRS person signature. This means that it is harassment. Write to the branch head, and warn him/her that you will sue them personally for sending you harassing letters. The letters will stop. But if they don't sue the IRS sucker personally, man-to-man... and get some money out of him.

In court, never be represented, and make it known that you are not representing yourself. You are standing present. Because you, a man or woman are present, your accuser has to be in form of man or woman, so that you can question them under oath on the stand. Standard USA law.

The IRS almost invariably indicts as THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. So, require that THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (written on the indictment against you) get on the stand so that you can question him/her regarding the damage that you did to him/her. Since he won't step forward (because he is not a man or woman), take the oath, get on the stand, case dismissed. If somebody else comes along and says he is representing the IRS, you need your accuser to be there himself. Standard law.

Now that you have been damaged by being harassed all the way to court, demand payment from them to cover your expenses... at least in the amount that you were being sued for, plus court costs and other expenses.

Don't attempt this until you understand what you are doing, and have at least two helpers who understand it as well.


Not that if you want to be a US taxpayer, pay your taxes.

8)

Just file with paper this year.

Nobody at the IRS will want to open these potential Corona virus letters.

Thanks, Elwar. Never thought of that. I could probably get a high-paying job at the IRS, opening their mail for them. CV and anthrax won't affect me. I have the cures.

I might even be able to become a boss for one special reason. I know how to not pay income taxes on my salary. So, they'll be between "the rock and a hard case" (The Rock 1996) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8apS_ALPM-Q. Pay me or lose it all.

8)

glad elwar is finally becoming more open and realistic to admit that sea steading isnt as independant and free as he first promoted.
i actually think he deserves a merit for that.

but as for badecker thinking he is a IRS/Law expert.. dang.. badecker.. seriously the 'tax is voluntary' is another freeman cult myth. try to find better sources.

paying tax is not voluntary
its about who decides which tax code/branket you fall into and how much tax you pay.

they do not calculate it and demand you are put into a certain tax code.
its up to you to calculate and to put yourself into a tax code

..
if you dont pay. they will then investigate and punish you

think of it as the hunger games
would you prefer someone demand a certain person to do something. or for those to volunteer themselves.
either wa the hunger games will happen but its more peaceful if people just act like a man and own up to what they do and pay what they owe for what they have done.
kind of a shame badecker isnt man enough to take responsibility for his actions nor responsible enough to actually learn what he preaches

people do have to pay tax. or there will be punishments.

You contradict voluntary in what you say, and you don't even know it, do you.

     8)

if i set up a basketball game and said. i want 2 volunteers to be captains
if no one steps forward. that does not mean legally there can be no basketball game
instead i then demand who i prefer to be captains.

maybe try to do search beyond freeman stuff
and you will see how much freeman stuff has limited your knowledge

paying taxes is mandatory. but you volunteering up the information first is alot more peaceful than waiting for the mandatory non tax payment punishments to head your way

But you can only force those who have agreed to play the game with you as the controller. You can't simply go and grab someone off the street and force him to play.


What does your basketball game have to do with my limits of knowledge about the subject of basketball? I haven't contracted with you to play in your basketball game. UCC is freeman stuff... contract law that keeps us free... even from the IRS.



Paying taxes is only mandatory if you owe taxes. The only way IRS taxes are mandatory is if you volunteer to pay them. If you don't volunteer to pay, you don't owe. That's why the IRS calls it voluntary... not because it isn't.

Here is where the basis lies. You might do things or act in ways that are not volunteering in your thinking. But when the IRS sees these things you do, they think that you have volunteered. This is where court comes in, to determine if you have volunteered or not. But if you get an attorney, all you have done is thrown yourself onto the mercy of a couple of attorneys and a judge. Most of the time they will judge against you.

If, however, you stand present in court, unrepresented, and state your status as a man, they must find a man to accuse you of harm or damage that you did to that man. And the man who comes against you must be able to present the damage, evidence and witnesses that you are the one who damaged him. In addition, he has to show you the bill, and the reasons why he has decided the bill is so much and not some other amount.

Otherwise, if you stand as a man, and your accuser is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA on the indictment, the joker who is named THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA better take the oath and get on the stand so you can question him. I mean, you have a copy of the indictment. It says your accuser is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. And it is your basic right in court that you get to question your accuser. So, let that joker take the oath, and get on the stand under oath, so you can question him/her.

You never see this in an IRS court case for two reasons:
1. The IRS dismisses, early in the game (maybe before the trial), in the few cases that come before them like this. So there isn't any record that is understandable as to why they dismissed;
2. Extremely few people stand unrepresented in some way. Most have attorneys, or else they represent themselves propria persona or sui juris or some other way. Few ever stand present as a man/woman.

Of course, this might not be the way it is done in Britain (although it is similar at Queen's Bench). But there are all kinds of wins and losses doing it this way in the States. Marc Steven's people might not do it exactly like this, but they have wins all over the place - https://marcstevens.net/. Check them out and learn.

8)

there you go again
you have amnesia and totally forgot about the stuff in the other topics yet again
you have gone full reversal back to the freeman mantra.

first of all by stepping onto a basketball court means you have shown you want to be involved in the game
by being born as a us citizen or standing on US land/property you are playing by US laws.
wake up

i am a brit. and when not in the US the US laws dont apply. but UK laws do.
however you are american so us laws do apply to you

the voluntary part is for you you volunteering to calculate how much you owe.. its nothing about volunteering if you wish to pay or not.
its about volunteering to hand them information upfront and peaceful or.. wait for them to make the decisions and the consequences of their decisions which are normally less than peaceful

as for you yimmer yammers about standing in court as a man.
you have no clue
again for the respect of other readers that may want to know the truth
an accuser does not have to be the victim. an accuser can be a witness, an associate, a family member or someone concerned and has knowledge of the issue

again to wake you up
if you murder someone
you cannot then when in court demand to see your victim and have them accuse you and explain their accusation. and demand if they cannot speak for themselves than you get away with the murder.
it does not work like that in the real world
other people can accuse you of the crime other than the victim
this means an employee of a company or an agent of a government department can accuse you even if that employee or agent is not personally named 'us gov'

wake up and have a reality check
get away from the freeman cult and actually do some research

I agree that the things that you say there are applicable... but only if they are applicable. Stepping onto a basketball court simply means you know how to walk, unless there are several things that go along with it. You might be the janitor.

Nobody can force citizenship on you. Living or having been born on the land within the land borders of the USA doesn't mean that you are a citizen of the US. It simply means that there might be a paper record of your birth, which record might be the citizen. And if you want to exercise some of the benefits of that document, you must play the game that goes along with the paper.


This is a forum. So we yack this way and that. But check out Mark Stevens at https://marcstevens.net/, and loads of other sites, as well, to see that the way you are playing your basketball game is not the only way to play it.

The IRS dropped me when I went after them for coming after me. I used Karl Lentz reasoning. I know what I am talking about.

8)

EDIT: Probably the best place to start learning about Karl is https://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos. But if you want a really good understanding for starters, listen to the almost 3 hours here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0GFK_5dQFk.

ha ha ha badecker you never went to court. thats obvious
you have failed even the basic of knowledge/experience tests


its like elwar
he said in his projects that he and his team spend year(s) researching design and production and look at things like building materials, location, and even things like how to produce clean water deal with waste.. but when you actually ask him to truly explain how to deal with the utilities such as water and waste. he goes quiet about dealing with waste.

i myself went to some thai islands over the years and they actually ship in clean water from the mainland and ship out the waste
yep i had a culture shock of not only having to shower my ass after using the toilet instead of using toilet paper but also having the hotel remind me not to flush toilet paper down the toilet.  and obviously i had to ask,.. how did they even know.
then it was explained to me how the island works

then later when elwar started talking about his thai 'im free' lifestyle
and it got me questioning, if he actually knew what was involved so i questioned him. and he kept avoiding the answer. all he would ever say was he had a thai girl with him

..
what im basicaly saying is. when i ask a question like 'do you know what really happened behind karl lentz 'lalala' and even months later badecker fails to answer. it not only shows he doesnt know what really happened in court in general, but he doesnt even bother to research karl lentz properly. and so has very very little knowledge/experience and is just a cult follower with blind and yes i mean this blind obedience to follow a group of people without actually thinking independantly

so one more time badecker
the example you have used many times over many topics of you advertising karl lentz examples. explain what happened behind the part where karl lents 'la la la' over a critical part. its a test to see if you really know whats going on

You sound like the atheists. They think that they checked everywhere in the universe, so they KNOW that God doesn't exist. In a similar way you think that you checked all the court records in the world, and didn't find the name BADecker in any of them, so you just KNOW that I never went to court... LOL!


But nobody knows that anything you say about Elwar is true. Why not? Because nobody really knows what you mean by what you say because your language is so convoluted. So even if Elwar admitted that what you said was correct, he doesn't really know. He only thinks he understands what you are saying.



If you had listened to Karl, you would realize that Karl hasn't point blank told us all the answers. He told us that he hasn't told us all the answers.

Do you know why he hasn't told us all the answers? It's because of people like you, who can't even get the easy parts down.

Wanna see one of the easy parts that you can't seem to get down? It's the simple fact that whenever the word "person" is used in law, it doesn't mean man or woman. This is shown right in the Constitution and Amendments. But if a man or woman accepts that he/she is the person in question, then governments and others may also accept that he/she is that person.

But since you can't learn this simple thing, if you tried to use Karl's stuff, for you it would be like the woman who backed into the airplane propeller... disaster.

8)

oh badecker. you are the fool and your soo fooled you dont even realise your the fool and dont realise your even fooling yourself

person = entity of all kinds including human beings

the reason person is used is if they said 'man' then women would say laws dont apply to them.
if a man was an agent of a company. they would say they are not a man but an agent

so person is a qualifier that INCLUDES all foolish loopholes

yep thats right person is used to actually catch you out for trying to claim your not a man or are a man or not a agent or are a agent. either way it still applies to you

you think its a loophole to exclude you.. but the stupid thing you did not realise is that its a thing to include you even if you tried to change your pronoun to describe what you are

so you can try all you like to pronoun yourself as a man, helicopter, or giraffe.. but all that will happen is the court will laugh at you and continue with the case. because its not a pronoun loophole

just go friggen learn it independantly away from your cult scriptures

Time number 500 where Franky takes my words from another project and applies it to another project. Your quote was from when I was talking about the Marinea project. You also try to act like I am the only one on all of these projects making all of the decisions. I wish I had been in charge of these projects, things would have turned out a lot differently. Even here in Panama I am the Chief Operations Officer of Ocean Builders. There is a CEO and above him is the guy with the money that actually runs the company (who has been running it all along) https://ocean.builders/about .

As for how the water, waste, toilets, etc. work. I can always postulate on the final solution (compost, anaerobic digester, incineration, black water disposal, urine diverting toilet, etc.) but it's not until it's actually implemented that it matters. As for water, that's a simple solution that we used in Thailand and many ships have used for decades (desalinator). Of course, the decision was never mine to make so I could only pose possible solutions. The final solution for waste was to let it go into the ocean and feed the fish below. Garbage was easy enough...just take it back into town whenever we were heading in (just like boats do). The key being to try not to bring a lot of garbage out in the first place (get rid of plastic before coming out, leave the packaging on the boat, etc.). We never planned on being fully self sufficient. People don't get that through their heads and still don't get it. I don't know how many ways someone has to say it but you do not have to be fully self sufficient (especially on the prototype model). I think my analogy gets lost when I say "we're not building our own chips for computers on the seastead", but unfortunately I even had someone saying that we should be doing that and make sure we deal with the heavy metals or whichever that we'd be using. Seriously. No nation in the world is even fully self sufficient so why would it be expected that a single home can provide every solution to everything? How many rice patties does Singapore have? Enough to feed all of their people?

As for Franky thinking I don't answer the question. When my answers are manipulated and twisted, it is better to not answer your questions. I am making a mistake by even posting this because now you will look at something I said back in 2009 about wanting to get Ron Paul elected and talk about how much I love Trump because Ron Paul was a Republican running for president and Trump is a Republican running for president so it is all the same thing.

Even after my full explanation of the past 3 DIFFERENT projects I VOLUNTEERED on you still believe it is all one project and that I was running all of them. I also promote Bitcoin and answer questions about Bitcoin. Am I Satoshi?

You write like an attorney.      ;D

it was your words that wanted to do a project which involved your own crypto currency as funding. it was you theat then was promoting trying to buy a boat then you said your team were now talking to some governers of an area. then you were the one saying your doing something in thailand. then you said your doing something in panama

it was you that has been promoting it as a single long combined project of yours where you wanted seasteads.
yep you made a crypto specifically for it.

.. but yes the reality sets in that when i ask about the sewerage and wastage utility and your response is 'it dont matter untill a prototype is made' just reveals how lax you are about planning and researching

put t this way. you cant put a price on a custom built house until its built to know what the actual costs are
you cant plan building unless you know the materials and utilities involved to get permits ad acceptance from certain governors of tropical islands/nations

but you have always been very fast to mention prices. and to make promises that if they hand over say $10k they will get a week vacation.. way way way way way before even having a prototype. let alone knowing if it is functional.

this is why even after a decade of your so called experience you still lack some of the fundamentals. which makes alot of people weary to invest in projects you get involved in.

so again. maybe best you take a step back and let someone else with more resources and knowledge and desire to live on a seastead head up the promotions. because you seem to be just all about the money

mega hint: usually when people ask questions its because they might be interested in investing (think shark tank/dragons den) if you just shout 'shut up you troll im not gonna answer your questions' make it appear more like you dont know the answers or your hiding things.

i am not trying to sell anything so i have no fear in speaking out about whats on my mind. but if you had any business sense and an actual desire for a seastead project and not just a excuse to grab money. you would have been acting alot differently years ago

^^^ Twisty attorney words... even the style.      ;D

Yep. 3 different projects run by many different people. All one long combined project. I am the only person in the world interested in seasteading so obviously I am running it all. I'll be sure to tell the other projects in St. Lucia and San Francisco that they need to start answering to me because those are my projects too.

Here in Panama we are currently in the testing phase. We order samples of what we want to put into the home and try it out to see if it makes sense for the home. To make a final statement of how the bathroom is going to be set up without testing is premature. Even on the first seastead after I talked about composting toilets, urine diverting toilets, etc. the engineer (the guy funding it all, who makes the decisions) told the manufacturer to just let it go into the water since we were 13nm out.

We can give estimates of prices at this point because we have already built the prototype and know the costs of that one. We can safely say that we can build a base model for $195,000. This is based on what we are currently paying for labor, what we paid for the 1/3 scale models, what we are paying for material, etc. We know that we have wiggle room of going from the most basic home with tanks to take care of water and waste and a generator for electricity to the more advanced features of solar, batteries, water maker, incinerating toilet, etc. The price stays the same but how much we can offer for that price can be changed. It will still be a floating home on the water. We can add optional add-ons as needed.

We are not looking for investors. We are funding it all ourselves. No need for shark tank. Our engineer would not accept investors anyway. We have had to turn people away who want to invest in the business. We are building so we're not really worried about marketing. We have enough work for the next year. We assume that after people see these in the water and can walk on them they will want to buy one or a share of one.

Even the first seastead I never talked about it until it was in the water. But at this point a lot of people want to be kept up to date on what we're doing so I let people know. We are not worried about publicity.

Are we giving these homes away? No. I'm not sure what world you live in where asking people to pay for something is some sort of scam. These will not be charity homes. People will need to pay for them. We started asking for a refundable $100 deposit because we had several hundred people telling us that they wanted to buy one but unless they actually have to put a small amount of money behind that we cannot gauge the interest.

Having a price we can build to that price, it gives us constraints on the level of technology we put into it. It lets everyone in the design line know that we're not building $1 million homes so leave that experimental 30% efficiency solar paint that is being designed in the lab behind and focus on the 50 cents per watt solar cells from Alibaba. Leave the untested water-from-air prototype for someone else as we buy a $5,000 desalinator on Amazon. We had an estimate of $70k for that big window shown in the pictures so we are coming up with better solutions.

You say I'm all about the money but this tends to be the number one question we get. How much will it cost?

This is something no other seasteading project ever likes to answer. I'm going to be up front about it. Putting a price allows us to get past all of the dreamers of "I'm going to quit my job and go live on a seastead!" to let them know that they'll actually have to pay for their home. It allows for people who actually want to come down here to begin planning. Because this project is actually building something.

$10,000 for a one week per year share gives an upper bound of $500k for a fully upgraded home with all the bells and whistles. We will likely leave the share management to third party companies but we are already getting people reserving those, so obviously people want it. A group could get together and buy a basic home for $195k and have 2.5 weeks each year. One of our buyers plans on buying one and tokenizing ownership (he's actually coming down to the build site this weekend to check things out). Our focus is on building these and selling them. What people do with them after that we're happy to assist but can't guess at this point all of the different things that will be done after purchase.

the point yet again is before you even made the prototype your already money grabbing
and you just admitted it

you have not even figured out what bathroom functions it will have but already wanting to grab money..
again i said it many times over many posts about this project and many times with your other projects

you lack the understanding of the details needed of a prototype or even a costbase of such construction.. yet very quick to put a pricetag on a project

as a 'chief operations officer' (YOUR CLAIM NOT MINE) you should know more about the operations part and it should be a CFO that is talking about the money side. you have failed answering a question many COO's should know

Source?

as for you pretending to not money grab such as:


see you pretend to self fund now. get some in the water and then when people go on a tour then they purchase
.. but you are already selling time shares and mentioning deadlines of a few months
but all you have so far is a 1/3rd scale model
and still testing the utilities like the bathroom.. again its been your stumbling block of information withhold for years

..
i truly think it might be wort you going bak and re-reading your own words a few times.
because its very funny how on page 1 your first post was about YOUR PLAN and how even as far as page 5 you were talking about not wanting to reveal YOUR PLAN until YOU HAVE YOUR HOME IN THE WATER. yea even badecker done a comedical meme of you words.

you had a picture of the spire.. and then later the big reveal of the thai pod build and you always on scene.. and then when you finally stood on the pod you were gleefully saying 'im freeeee'

..
but later went and retracted everything saying its not your project not your home your just guests and how you had no desire for forming micronations, governments..
(again page 1&2 has you talking about it. infact every page of this topic had you talking about the governance of seasteading)
up until the big reveal and eventual seisure

.. but anyway point being.
your still just testing the toilets. yet you are offering timeshares already.. come on does not sound anything like
'we are not looking for investors'

do you atleast see where your 'governance' ICO TIMESHARE
vs
just a guest of someone elses project. no governance plans. no investment plans
differ

You may want to look up the term 'governance'.


Again, you try to mix and match projects (there is this thing called 'time', there is past, present and future...). In Thailand self governance was part of the project because we were more than 12nm out. In Panama our project is not even seasteading because we are in a nation's territorial waters with no special economic zone.

Of the few different options of toilets, none of them will cost over $5000. That is easy to factor into the cost.

Toilets on a boat are not a new thing. All the people on the project have lived on a boat at some point. Not sure what your obsession is about toilets. We are looking mainly at an incinerating toilet but also exploring the option of composting or just marine toilets with tanks. The priority being that it needs to be convenient for the user (no learning curve required).

We can have a long discussion on toilets and poop and how it breaks down, how long it takes, etc. if you want. Most people are not fans of discussing poop but you seem to be into it.

There are much bigger engineering challenges than that though. Adding a toilet is easy, making a home that can withstand 2-3 meter waves is the one we are more focused on "getting right".


We are allowing people to reserve their homes with a refundable $100 deposit, there is certainly no deadline. Besides Anarchapulco and our Facebook group we have not really advertised this option. We knew people at Anarchapulco would be interested so we wanted to make sure the option was available. We are building a manufacturing facility, we want to make sure that there is actual demand (and how much demand there is). That will factor in how much money we spend on equipment.

Even Tesla asked for a refundable $100 deposit for their truck that they plan on starting to build in 2022.

So...where is this money grab you speak of? $100 from a few people? Is that the whole point of our manufacturing facility, contracts with the marina, purchase of a $150k+ 3D printer, several thousand dollars on scale models, permitting, licensing, paying lawyers for forming a business, getting our homes classified as a houseboat for flagging...

^^^ That's honorable of you, talking to franky1 that way. He IS pretty smart, you know. But that's the trouble with most of us. We know something about one subject, and suddenly we think we know more than we do about all kinds of other subjects. And then we really get going and extrapolate about other people's projects, this way and that.

franky1's probably a great guy. He simply doesn't have experience where he doesn't have experience. But he thinks that he can extend his experience to projects where it just doesn't work his way.

I expect he will wake up sometime, and will become a real benefit to us all, and particularly to those around him in his life.

8)

Have you looked into biodigesters for sewage processing? IMO it would be a good solution to your disposal issues. It essentially has multiple chambers and allows bacteria to break down the waste into less harmful components which can then safely be released into the ocean with minimal impact to the surrounding water quality. It is also a good source of methane which can be used as fuel. There are lots of great examples of builds on youtube.

why is https://discuss.seasteading.org/ down?

In times like this seasteading seems like the way to go, self imposed quarantine. Toilet is not really a issue, imagine when a whale drops its load, all sorts of organism depend on it, like on land the dung beetle. Soaps, shampoo washing detergent is issue but there are options available.

Edit:
Whale poonado
https://youtu.be/r4JJWuHmqPs?t=11

The issue is all the Fukushima radioactive water the Japs are dumping into the ocean.

8)

And the dumping of radioactive waste from lots of country's and chemical company's cheap way of disposing its toxics or paper producers bleach, list goes on

again to address the sewerage waste you keep trying to avoid.
its not about what type of seat a person sits on in a bathroom. i have repeatedly been asking you about dealing with sewerage

do you even know why many Kohs around thailand actually ship in fresh water and ship out sewerage. rather then suck up seawater nearby and desalinate. and drain off sewerage into the sea locally

there are many reasons i know of and can think of. but its strange how you keep avoiding the challenge to answer it
and by the way, before you knee jerk react. actually try to ask your team the question
and  little hint. cruise ships actually have sewerage treatment equipment onboard. and for many countries there are actual rules around what can be offloaded close to the coast(you definitely will want to research that)
and um.. a little hint about the land pods in the forest.. just dumping waste on the ground below.. not good to see it raining faeces and having a pile of faeces at the bottom step people have to walk through to climb up to the pod.
especially if your planning $10k a week time-leasing

if you actually thought about the environment and the user experience of what they need to know/do when they have a pod and what they possibly will be met with as the step into the pod. you would have thought about all this.

but you thinking its just about what type of thing someone sits on as being your answer. your fooling yourself

as for the tesla truck
they actually made a working prototype first. yea it may have failed the bulletproof glass test. but atleast they had a lifesize prototype first of all.

Excellent, it looks like we all want to talk about toilets on boats.

Here are just a few of the options:
Composting toilet
Marine toilet
Incinerating toilet
Anaerobic digester
Urine diverting toilet

Here is a quick primer for seasteading and the #2 question everyone always asks: Seasteading. Where does the poop go? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd2FCpU5wu8)

Composting toilet
This is a very simple solution which can easily be used on a seapod.
Here are our friends the Wynns explaining the intricacies of their composting toilet they had on their RV which they then installed in their boat.
https://www.gonewiththewynns.com/compost-toilet-big-questions
The downside to the composting toilet is that the user experience is not seamless. Good for people living there long term but we do not want people coming to visit for vacation learning a new toilet procedure using coconut husk or sawdust.
There are certainly a lot of different composting toilets, our storage is a few meters below the toilet so we have the benefit of the waste being far below the toilet which helps with smell.

Marine toilet
This is what we had on the first seastead. On that one we chose to use fresh water to flush but on our boats we used salt water. In Thailand all of the boats just flush out to sea so that's what we did as well. Our boat didn't even have a waste tank.
Here in Panama we will not be letting anything into the water so we will have a black water tank (even though the current boats in the marina and anchorage do not follow any sort of clean waste procedure). We will have a service for pumping out peoples' black water tanks. Fairly simple, the technology has been around and proven for decades.
The upside of these toilets is the user experience is the same as being at home. The downside being the need to pay for a service to come pump out your black water.

Incinerating toilet
There are several different types of incinerating toilets, the one we are looking at has the same user experience with a hose that runs down to the incinerator. You just dump the ash every couple of months.
We are leaning toward this one.
The upside is that the user experience is the same as a marine toilet. There is no need for pumping out the black water and for vacationers the maid can just empty the ash periodically.
The downside is the cost and the energy usage. Fortunately here in Panama natural gas is cheap so using a natural gas incinerator may keep the price down for energy usage.

Anaerobic digester
Seasteader, Jeff Frusha, just started his company in Texas creating anaerobic digesters which converts poop into biogas. He has been pushing this for years on the seasteading forums. I have been in contact with him and he is open to adapting his design for the space we have on the seapod.
Here is an explanation of how to build a bio digester.
http://www.solarcities.eu/education/388

Urine diverting toilet
Though not a type of waste disposal system, this can be used with any of the above systems. It helps to separate the urine from the poop. The key being that the mixing of the urine and poop creates the toxicity while poop alone will break down in hours on its own, urine on its own is fairly sterile. Though you need to factor in the prescription drugs that people take along with caffeine and other things so the waste cannot be used for anything useful unless you know that the people living there are not ingesting chemicals that would harm the plants or other things you may use the compost for.


While this is all fascinating stuff, our goal is to have experts in each field focus on these things for us. We will likely buy off the shelf products for our first few models as we use what works as much as possible due to the amount of custom engineering needed for everything else. So our focus is on the incinerating toilet first until we have an expert in toilet technology come down to our incubator (https://ocean.builders/incubator) to design something specific to our design. There is a $4k incinerating toilet that we will buy for the first model that can hose the waste down into the storage area where the incinerator will sit.

We have promised the Panama government that we will not dump any waste into the sea. So, just like almost every other thing here in Panama, we are not following what the locals actually do and we are going above and beyond what most of the world does.

The fish do not get the benefits of our waste thanks to peoples' feelings.

i know your just copy and pasting stuff from a forum..
but here is the problem your not realising

yo have said that your team has made a 1 third scale model and has made a 3d render ready to use on a 3d printer

but if that was the case then you would have already have decided which bathroom facility function to use because for instance if its compost. then you have to measure in onboard storage to keep it and then 'bale' it up to than hand carry off the pod to take back to shore.
if its using a sewerage treatment then you need to have measured in the area for the treatment equipment and then how to handle the matter afterwards
if its just to deposit into the ocean then you also need to have measured into the 3d render a friggen drain pipe for the matter to escape from the pod rather than be stored onboard.

in short its things like sewerage management which if not actually answered about a final design just goes to prove you cant even build the outershell of the pod as you dont even know the dimensions and if it requires a store or drain

it things like desalination and sewerage treatment that then factors in how much roof space is required for solar panels to then power these pieces of equipment
which can then affect the ultimate design
yep years ago you were promoting these micronations self governing seastead village that anyone can moor to and when asked about the growing food which you said is possible it brought up the question of if the roof has a garden then where do the solar panels go..

you are very very quick to sell the dream and pretend its all panned out and all ready to just make. and then ask for deposits.. but when actually asked you then become vague about 'possible options'

again how can you even be ready to 3d print the outer shell if you dont even know if the dimensions are there to store the waste for x days/weeks/months or know how to get it out without tracking it across the internal living area (not happy holiday experience to have to do that). or if the 3d render needs a drain hole in the pre-design render and positioned in the area of where the bathroom would be

..
you keep trying to sell the dream but become vague about how far even a prototype /final design is

i dont need to be an expert on seastead things, but i now enough about how businesses work and how R&D works to know enough and when you become vague or 'optional' about certain factors which do affect overall design. it reveals that your either not ready or not researched enough which makes it show that maybe your not really the person who should be calling himself a COO as you dont seem to know much of the operations

i could have gonna on and knitpicked about how many hours do the solar panels generate to have even needed the blue generator in a true living scenario of 24hour living 7days a week. because even things like do people want to be hearing a generator churning over al night because the solar can nly power the daytime functions.

i could have gone on about many things. again if the 3d render of latest project is just to drain it out upon flush because you have a drainpipe in the render. what about the forest landsteading. do people want poop raining down on the bottom step/ground level

but hey if your not even ready to finalise the toilet facilities then just shows how unready you are even after your own words of over a decade of being in that industry

oh and before saying anything foolish like 'seasteaders are used to the campervan experience of trecking a wate container through their living area' .. um your offering a pricepoint of a ritz penthouse hotel with butler/maid service where its not expected for people to have to scrub their own toilet. but expecting people to be ok with a campervan lifestyle for that price.
which shows you have not even done the research on customer expectations for the price you have alloted
yea humans on vacation for $100 a week can cope with campervan lifestyle. but $10k a week.. they expect the ritz experience

have a nice day

Ok then. Sorry I answered your question. That is about what I expected.

Don't worry. Lesson learned.

Same thing happened to me way back. My own fault, I guess... regarding franky1, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

But, this is a forum, and franky1 loves to forumize people.

8)

but you havnt answered. all you said was possible options
EG
offering a service to take the black waste off
having a maid remove the ash periodically
using an anaerobic process

then you say your goal (thus not yet achieved) is to have (again future tense) experts (thus not yet sure yourself)
which all reveals your not even ready.

yet you kept saying things will be done in next few months and ramping up production to make them in days
yet, from what i see now. your not even at prototype stage because you havnt worked out if you want a drainage pipe or a furnace chimney

and as for
just shows how little you know about some countries law about dumping waste so close to shore.
for instance if your seen dumping waste within 3nm of USA. you'll get fined by the EPA

so goodluck with finding experts but it has been obvious for a while now. you still have a lot of work to do.
and yes there is a little hint above about the legal stuff.

it kinda seems your attentions more wish to seek the 'extra services' of costly maids and waste removals you want to charge ontop the time share fee. i understand the business benefit/profitability of such thoughts. but i feel your motives are more rubbing your hands together at the extra income streams you can achieve for holiday home rentals rather than a true seastead LIVING/HOME lifestyle

and lastly.
self governing (making own laws/rules) is not something you can do when your close to shore like your latest project is trialling.
there is 'self policing' but thats more of just a neighbourhood watch thing. as your still limited to not being able to shoot someone without it causing a bit of legal issue from the mainland law

but it has been fun seeing you side step questions but pretend to answer them
maybe come back when you have final decision answers and not al the ifs and maybes and dreams
in otherwords. finalise what your want in the pod. design it accordingly. and also look for what target market you are actually after. because right now you say its seastead living, but subtly hinting at the vacation market of wanted to be the ritz penthouses of the sea. atleast decide a path and what such user experience is expected to have

I'm sure you are just on the edge of your seat to see our progress in the coming months. As we actually do things instead of talk about them.

I'd welcome you down to come see our progress but...not so much.

franky1 is so funny. You give him an answer, and he doesn't accept it. It's like he is trying to talk you into saying that you don't know what you are doing.

I think what he is really saying, is that he ran into some trouble with his own dealings. And then, instead of pushing on to the next step, he gave up. And it simply bugs the heck out of him to see someone else who is a fighter like he isn't.

8)

badecker i have many successes in life.
i dont promote it due to no need to promote it here

but when asking about what toilet is in the final prototype and the answer is just a random list of possible options which each option would make a change to the outer shell a nessessity. it reveals they are not near even building the outer shell let alone putting in the internals

i already called elwar out on his supposed 10 year seasteading progress,, which has now flipped in to him trying to distance himself from the other projects and say how those projects were not intended to be the project he has been obsessing about for a decade.

just like i called you out on your lack of knowledge about the hidden details of a scenario you handed me. yet you yourself did not understand the scenario when you did so.
so how about you learn what went on behind the 'lalala' of the scenario you kept pressing. and try not to act like you have amnesia and cant remember it. you have been prompted many times to research and answer

and if elwar was to want to be honest and open about a project then it might be worth, if he wanted to retain the COO position to actually research what operations the project is doing.
and the easiest question would be
does the prototype 3d render of the outer shell have a drain pipe, a outer storage door or a chimney

as for the comparison to tesla
before even doing a 'clay' model of the asthetics of a car/truck. tesla would have already calculated the weight of the vehicle to work out the best dimensions of the wheelbase, chassis, if the battery should be front centre or rear which affects the height/space of luggage/passenger area. all of which then form the bases of which shape vehicle to mold
its not like they mold a vehicle and then try to fit everything in afterwards done just by guess work

Regarding the TP toilet issue, your successes must have been by accident. Why? Because you couldn't even figure out that Elwar was telling you that they hadn't decided on the final option, yet, and that they were still inventing a few things, and, in a very nice way, that their internal thinking and operations weren't any of your business.

But there you go. Push, push, push... franky1 style.

Guess what. It still isn't any of your business. Be happy that Elwar told you as much as he did. He's probably happy he found out how pushy you are before he invited you to his operation in Panama.

If you had read and used your head for something besides a hair rack - now don't tell us you're bald - you would have realized that a drain pipe and a chimney are the same thing, only in opposite directions.

Anybody can learn to program. Some of us might be able to learn it as well as you. But most of the rest of us know how to treat people decently, especially people who have done as much as Elwar. Do you think he is lying when you watch his escape-from-Thailand videos? If you do, you still haven't figured out the difference between an actor and somebody who is a scared, cool customer.

That Thailand escape alone is probably bigger than all your successes combined.

8)

badecker

i know he said he hasnt decided yet. and that the friggen point..
before thi he was saying how he has a prototype and a 3rd scale model and the 3d renders ready to print

which if all was true then such renders would already include a drain or a chimney..
so yea im pointing out by him not deciding how to treat the sewerage then he is no where near production

if you read my rebuttles all the way back to the start of this topic you will see that it has been the same thing over and over again
elwar saying they ready to build and read to launch. but then comes back later saying some excuse why they havnt.

even just the most simplist of questions about sewerage treatment seems to get missed by someone that calls himself and appears to have self appointed the title of COO

maybe if you done some research about a few things and maybe start seeing flaws in peoples plans. you would question them and either help them if you feel they are on a good moral path and deserve help. or remain critical of them if they seem too interested in the investment money and free vacations more so than the project itself.
and in this case elwar doesnt seem to be the right person for the COO so i already told him who should be more involved

on other things i have seen people on the right path and have the right desires and interests and i have helped them out.

lets just wait for elwar scenario to play out
the typical 'no this was not my project i was just a volunteer'

Lol.

Next time you are at the bank, and 5 bank robbers with guns come in and say, "Get down on the floor or we will open fire," don't believe them. There are a whole bunch of reasons why they can't or won't open fire. Just go on with your business as though everything is normal, and nothing out of the ordinary is happening. If you happen live, you can write it up in the forum where their flaws were in their thinking.

8)

follow your own advice. and i cant wait to not hear from you again

but until then. im just waiting for you to go full cultist and say stupid things like the typical script of
'my birth certified name is a state construct/corporation given by government'

of something stupidly similar.. then i know 100% you have fallen deep into the cult

Congratulations! You got away from the bank robbers. I bet you convinced them that there were bigger and better profits working with Elwar on Seasteading in Panama.

 ;D

Hey, Elwar. Is CV in Panama interrupting anything in your Seasteading business?

Elwar?

Are you there Elwar?



Do you think CV got him?

 8)

CV is making things a little difficult here in Panama but we started preparing for it ahead of time.

We pour our concrete floor this Saturday so we will be waiting on that for a month anyway so we can let the workers have their breaks and stay home as Panama is recommending. Not sure if they'll allow the pour though. Should have done it yesterday.
I have a video update here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5Mz9bqVhS4

Had to send 2 Americans home yesterday before they close the airports tomorrow.

Thanks, Elwar.     8)

So, Thailand finally is shown to be the country of slavery that it really is.


THE FIRST SEASTEADERS 8: “Today is D-Day for The Thai Navy”
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WYgy88-HI8I/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEiCKgBEF5IWvKriqkDFQgBFQAAAAAYASUAAMhCPQCAokN4AQ==&rs=AOn4CLBYFlT6arw2bJ2x5SY0ssw7bjlNvA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYgy88-HI8I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYgy88-HI8I)


8)

gotta have a chuckle.
now elwar is back to saying that the thai pod was part of seasteading

a. seasteading.
b. no just a project where i was invited as a guest to stay in a pod for aerospace projects. not seastead
c. its a ocean builders seastead project
d. no dont confuse the projects its a previous unrelated project
e. no its a ocean builders seastead project

funny really. a project manager that lies about his projects or doesnt even know what his projects are

so fact check time. was it a pod designed for a project related to aerospace or seasteading.
elwar no more flip flopping. just find one narrative and stick with it.. which is it

Hey Franky, send me a link to the documentary about you. Oh right there isn't one because you are an inconsequential twat.

i do well with my business/income. i just don't need to suck up to people to try plying money out of them pretending things are X when they are actually Y. so i dont need to advertise myself

just because he has a face on youtube does not mean people should just blindly throw money at him.
years ago he asked for millions.. to buy a boat.. turned out that the boat only had a few dozen bedrooms meaning the amount of people he seeked investment from wouldnt even get a room for a single night. yet promised sanctuary and new citizenship. oh yea the boat was actually later said to be a HQ for the project to have meetings on. .. they could have hired an office for thousands, not millions.. which shows their money management lacks many things.

but yea pretending the thai seapod was 100% a seastead project. then backtrack it was not and they just guests on a aerospace project.. then now in latest video back to saying it was a 'ocean builders' project.
it makes me laugh
.. especially how elwar told me to not mix up the projects and treat them as separate projects.. but he himself is mixing them together.
yea i know when things go wrong elwar wants to step away from a project to avoid the consequences of that failure.. but he is very quick to just repeat the same scheme again. as if he hasnt learned from the last one


..
personally i am all for making new homes and even new communities.. but when scammers want to charge $10k for just a week share. just shows the greed
yes his latest project is for vacation homes for the rich. to try driving up tourism of a certain area. but when he whispers the whole 'independent state' of no laws/freedom.. he keeps leaping in and out of things that cant be offered. .. seems even he cant find and stick to the niche, and is just trying to grab as much scope as possible by promising many things to many communities

Of course, F-1 takes so many things out of context, that he really contradicts himself all the time. But that isn't the important part. The thing that is important is that people are catching on to this. And when they catch on, they go back to check what the truth is.

F-1 is actually advertising for other people, through the things he says against them. And when I point this out, I am actually advertising for franky1 to do more of his advertising in favor of the things he is against, as he is doing all the time anyway.

F-1 almost can't hold himself back. He just has to get out there and advertise for his opponents... all the time. Don't we just love it? :D Now he is coming right out and saying "fact check," so you find out for yourself how goofy he is.

So, I am a little puzzled. He is smart enough to bring up all kinds of points. And he is a bit organized in his using of them against other people. And he knows (way down deep) that people will see through him. Is he really against the stuff he talks like he is in favor of? Or is he really, knowingly covertly supporting the things he seems to be against? Or is he simply mixed-up funny farm material?

8)

He really isn't that smart. Don't mistake a trained parrot for a linguist.

dont mistake a grammar nazi(linguist) for a smart person. if the only rebuttal they can make is the linguistic usage of words. but fail to rebuttal the context of the message, then they already lost.

in business having a working prototype is crucial because you have atleast learned the manufacturing process. practised it. trained a team up. worked out basic costs and found all the pitfuls of regulation and building standard requirements.

selling a graphic design model and selling it for $10k a week before you have even made a single thing.. well thats just bad business.
its like selling a new KFC recipe before even bothering to know which herbs work best together or what cooking process/temperature cook it best. just having a image of chicken wont sell many meals

i have questioned elwar many times about how utility supply and sewerage treatment would be handled on all his 'projects' these are things that are normally planned in even at the graphic design stage. you know working out the dimensions of the pod to make sure everything fits and is accessible and ofcourse maintainable.

gotta love one of his responses to just dump the sewerage in the water
imagine it couple paying $10k for what they hope is a paradise vacation in clear exotic waters
'hey babe lets jump off the deck and dive into the water...'
'best not honey leave it a few hours i just flushed the toilet, that curry last night played hell on my bowels'

its the little things like understanding the niche he set himself in of $10k a week. and not understanding the experience that those type of people would expect.
i definetly wouldnt go to las vegas penthouse and want to see a turd in the pool. nor would i want to have to drain out my waste into a large container carry it to reception to dispose of

take for instance 3D printing the outer shell. what he doesnt realise is by not using panels. maintenance will be a kick in the teeth. its like making a new road surface. it looks pretty when new. but when you have to then rip it apart to get to the pipes underneath its a pain.
imagine storm damage, having to take the whole shell off and replacing it.

i can pick many more faults and things elwar has missed. but i dont want to give him idea's i just wanna see if he learns the hard way. or keeps tripping up on himself

Just because you tried it and failed, doesn't mean you always have to badmouth others who are succeeding.

You don't understand, do you, that a little sewage around the seastead, will attract all kinds of colorful fish that you can video for making money on Youtube, do you. :D

8)

whats that. is it a fish, is it a squid. nope its a turd

by the way. turds do not attract fish.. its why you dont see fish in dirty sewerage rivers

You asked Elwar a question about sewage. He answered you with the stuff that is used on boats already... standard methods of taking care of it.

You seemed to ignore what he said, and went right into condemning him for not checking into how to handle the sewage. So, he repeated his answer about boat sewage in more detail, and added a few of his own ideas.

You ignored his answer again, so he stopped talking to you, because you are simply an ignoramus... as shown by the way you ignore things.

8)

elwar didnt anwer it. he gave a bullet point list of possibilities
he even said (future tense) how they would probably buy off the shelf stuff

by not even making a decision nor having the actual 'off the shelf' item in their possession doesnt help with them designing an end product to fit around it.
also (future tense) is to have experts

so again. no plan. no prep. no answers. but just a big $10k a week pricetag
his 10 years in the sector and he cant even pick a toilet.
funny that
lets hope he doesnt build a brick house on land. or it will take 15 years just to decide on the kitchen tiles. and yet will be trying to sell the house before even laying the bricks

EG

Well, what's he supposed to say? I mean, if he is going to walk 20 feet to the door, is he supposed to measure his feet and express exactly the places where his feet will land on the floor... express it in thousandths of a millimeter?

Can't you get it through your head that their plans aren't finalized? Can't you even see that there are loads of options out there? Is it too difficult for you to even understand that his last paragraph says that they will be attempting to revolutionize the industry, but that to start with... "We will likely buy off the shelf products for our first few models..."

Don't you even realize that when he talks about "off the shelf" products, that it doesn't mean he will mount your toilet on a shelf where it might fall off?

Do you have a crystal ball that predicts any future? Why do you pick on Elwar because he doesn't. Get a grip, man (Sorry about that if you are a woman. I mean, REALLY sorry about it if you are a woman.).

Can't you even see that they are working on the project? How do you know that he doesn't have a few samples from a bunch of different companies sitting around? But if he doesn't, their catalogs that have descriptions are easily enough to start with. Do you think he never considered these?

If somebody wants to plunk down a little money without getting any details about what he is buying, isn't it up to that person? If you have to get a turd-counting toilet before you plunk some money down, don't plunk it down until you get what you want. All you are planning to do, anyway, is throw your money down the toilet, right? If you don't like it, don't do it... ah, unless you really want to.

Don't you see that all you are trying to do is take a bunch of people's freedom away, and then blame Elwar for it?

Are we having fun yet? :D

8)

point is. its like building a house
architects actually design the house by knowing the plumbing arrangements and fitting the room space round it

work out wall cavity space and size of rooms and stuff

its the basics like will it be a combined toilet and shower room, would it have a bath. will there be enough room to dry off without kneeing the toilet when you get out the shower
 is it going to be a toilet that pipes out to a separate container or would it be a 'portapotty' that just rolls in and out of the bathroom each time it needs to be emptied

its not just these details needed to design the layout. its also considering the guest experience.
EG
incinerator based sewerage treatment
'hey honey have you burned the toast..
.no dear thats just my turd on the smoker. doesnt it smell pleasant'

you do know that when realters make new homes they do a show home. and then people buy new builds based on the show home
you do know manufacturers make a prototype and then (AFTER) people invest into the company/buy the product

heck even people doing kick starters know to atleast make a prototype and show it works before asking to mega money.
heck asking for timeshare income before they even know the basics.. now thats just very bad/shady business.
especially when he didnt even have the 'experts' hired yet

but it is funny how elwar cannot even make a definitive decision. even after 10 years of time in his supposed 'R&D' exploits of seeking funding for projects

as i said ages ago.
maybe ocean builders might find someone with experience and actual project managing knowhow. but it sure as hell aint elwar. he is a money and waste it kid of guy. loves going on vacation and try getting it as a tax writeoff by calling it R&D yet never shows results

im all for a proper seastead project but elwar just isnt really appearing to be the guy that should be involved. is actual history has done him no favours

The point is that it isn't like building a house. Building a seastead doesn't have anything to do with this thread. That's not what this thread is for, nor any of the others that Elwar posts in.

You might find a thread in this forum somewhere, where a draftsman actually designed a house for someone in detail. But I doubt it. And such isn't what Elwar was doing. All he was doing was answering some general questions, and giving folks some general ideas.

Elwar is probably the best guy for seasteading. He's approximately the only person along with Nadia to have ever done it out in the ocean. If there are others, they are very few. Elwar's experience is beyond just about anybody else.

Then, when you consider that he and Nadia gave the whole Thai nation the slip, I'd say that their practical life experience is far beyond most. He says it; he does it. He has proven it, even in the face of danger.

If you and I want to go out and by new cars, you would absolutely select a different dealership than I would. But badmouthing a dealer (rather than the car) who is showing you his line of cars, is ridiculous. That's all that Elwar is doing... showing you his line of seasteads that he is starting to design.

But there you go badmouthing him every chance you get because he doesn't have his designs completed for you, yet.

If you are really like this in real life, no wonder the UK is going down the tubes. Stay over there. We don't need any garbage like you over here... even if you ARE right about Elwar being some kind of crook.

I'll give you one big piece of credit, though. You have your way set, and you stick to it. You maintain your honor and integrity, even though it is rooted in almost pure, unadulterated garbage. Somebody else would have drowned long ago, trying to maintain garbage like yours.

8)

he and nadia didnt 'do it' they were in their own words just guests on someone elses floating pod

infact in the time from its first night at sea to the night they fled. they didnt even stay there that much in between. so it was not really even a trial of a living experience.

take those training for mars missions. they actually stay in a 'biodome' for months. to work out if they can survive(mentally and physicallly) and what is actually needed to make it a effective living experience.
all in all they just had a free vacation bed to sleep in.

...
here is one thing. elwar has not identified how hard it is to actually supply a pod. after all knowing he might have to travel many dozens of miles round trip would require extra refrigeration. and also stockpiles of spare clothing/bedsheets and other things. just incase you cant get to shore for resupply.
he has not even thought about those basics.

yet even a idiot during this pandemic should realise the issues that occur when suddenly travel and access to certain stores can become less available.

anyway
there are thousands of people around the world that live on floating homes. thousands that live on moored dwellings in the water. heck many live on oil refineries.. and there is even things like freeland and other things.
elwar has not invented anything new. infact he isnt the inventor. and while trying to flip flip in and out of his inability to decide if he is a project manager or salesman. he fails at both.

even elwar has said he didnt invent it and is not the ceo. yet your lack of ability to grasp reality is still struck by the 'wannabe influencer' fangirling mindset

..
the reasons i make these posts is to make people wary of the pitfulls of certain things. because its become obvious that there is too much glossing over the details.
and in my opinion no one should be handing any money via elwar. he will just spend it on vacations but declare it as 'research'

if anyone is interested in sea steading. bypass elwar and actually investigate and research those actually doing it.who are not obsessed with grabbing money before even a prototype is made

Of course Elwar did it. He went to the iron ore fields of northern Minnesota, ate iron ore for breakfast, lunch, and supper everyday for years, and pooped out the metal that he used to make the spar.


Since you don't really have any idea what living on a seastead is really like, you are jealous. Me franky1. Me good. Me very good. Me better than everyone. Me so good that everyone else bad. This why I flap duck bill so much.

8)

in my life i have travelled to many countries. and lived in many different types of dwellings and experienced many cultures.
elwar couldnt even get his teeth fixed until recently

no jealousy at all. im just making people wary of certain things promoted by certain people, where what they say is full of flaws and limited knowledge

when elwar has to pull details about toilets from a blog post. and not from any business plan or specification sheet in the actual head quarters. where even then the blog post is non specific.. it shows how unprepared his promotion is

its like asking a real estate agent how many windows a house has and what type of windows. and they just pull out a blog post of random window types and say 'um we might just pick up whatever one we can find at a store.. we will find out later when we hire window experts'

kinda loses confidence that they even know much about building. let alone actually have a house to sell

..
we already know by now that elwars ploy is the tourist vacation market. because thats what the locals that let them in the area want. they dont want a whole new community of outsiders living their permanently. as it will take their livelihoods away.. they want vacation spots where they can work on them.

but he still tries to subtly hint at the 'seasteading' (its your home on the sea). yet has priced it out of both markets before even thinking about the end user or even the living experience.

$10k a week. is a mega laugh even for las vegas prices

I can't tell you that Elwar doesn't lie. All people tell lies or twist the truth a little here and there. That being said...

What I CAN tell you is, in the same way you trust that other people have truly found a Covid-19 without doing the research yourself, so we all can see that Elwar was a seasteader.

Unless he screwed you personally, all your badmouthing of him is unethical. If he screwed you badly enough, pursue litigation in an international court of law. If he didn't screw you that bad, get over it. He's just a guy trying to start a business like many of us.

We have successes in life, and we have failures. But Elwar's successes are kinda dynamic. Looks like you are jealous.

8)

ive never needed to beg using investment schemes to cover the costs of my vacations.
seems you are a scammer defender..
but hey that just makes you look bad

I see franky1 continues calling me a scammer.

Whichever, slander away if it makes you feel good about yourself.

Actions are what we rely on. I would certainly not encourage someone to buy a seapod without first coming down and seeing for yourself firsthand what we are doing here. As several people already have.

Anyone is welcome (once the lockdown is lifted).

Investment companies are the norm.
Thieves don't beg, either.
You absolutely need defending.
Right. It doesn't pay to defend you, though I try at times.

8)

Elwar. Does it pay to make a Seasteading altcoin to get seasteading moving faster?

8)

I doubt it
On way forward would be to have operational Seaweed farms, have generating income other than tourism.
Ideally all food consumed daily should have a total potential renal (kidney) acid load of about -2.
Tried seaweed is on of the lowest values and a great way to archive a healthy balanced died.
Oysters, steamed

-----------------------------------	PRAL value mEq/100mg
Seaweed, dried	-24,7
Seaweed, pickled	-4,2
Seaweed, raw	-3,6
Seaweed,  with soy sauce	-2,2
.
Apple	-2
.
Oysters, canned	1,9
Jellyfish, pickled	3,3
Mackerel, salted	5,1
Clams, smoked, in oil	5,6
Lobster, cooked	7,7
Crab, hard shell, steamed	8,4
Salmon, baked or broiled	12,7
Sardines, canned in oil	15,9
Trout, smoked	18,8
Shrimp, dried	32,4
Squid, dried	35,5

The most alkaline I know of is Marmite/Vegemite...with -41.9   and dried or dehydrated Chives -50.6
The most acidic I know of is Cheese, (Parmesan) 20-34.2 and  Gelatin powder, dietetic, sweetened with low calorie sweetener, dry with a value of 55.1

I saw a tweet that Tesla plans to launch its rockets from a seastead in the future.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1272972228326379520


SpaceX is building floating, superheavy-class spaceports for Mars, moon & hypersonic travel around Earth


There will be close to shore I guess but should be massive and hopefully will make some research/development that will also help seasteaders.

Any such experiment breaks down from this freedom for all. You built your community, then your neighbors came and captured you, enslaved you, or sold you to other neighbors. What will you do? "The FBI please help??»? All your libertarianism is based on the utopian idea of absolute freedom and is broken down by the oldest "right of the strong". I'm sorry but it's true.

yep.
i said this years ago. he wanted communities that agreed on laws..
funny part is disagreements happen
he replied people can just move away
funny part is. his pods are stuck on poles moored to the sea floor
he had a argument with thai authorities and couldnt simple just move the pod.. he ran away instead

he then replied nonsense.. as he lost grasp of the idea, denying the initial idea was even a thing he was involved in

then he started a new project and hinted to the original plan
then he started another project thats just going to be tourist villa's at $10k a week

Thank you for saying that they did it. I mean, did the owner live on his own seastead? I don't really care who the owner is. Elwar and Nadia lived on the seastead. So, they did it. When you get all twisted up in what you say and think like that, how is anybody supposed to understand what you are even talking about?


Now you are trying to say that Elwar and Nadia didn't even live on the seastead. We have videos. Did they really fake those videos? Are those videos animated cartoon videos? Were they dead as they walked around on the seastead? You sound like you don't like Elwar for some reason. I don't even want to know why.


Lol! :D... That's what I like about you, franky1. You are constantly in the brains of other people, knowing all about what they think. Are you some kind of super AI, that can determine from a person's few words, every possibility of what he might mean by his words, so that you absolutely know every thing that he thinks? Lol. :D

If you are really interested in buying a pod, aren't you going to go down to Panama and talk details with Elwar and the Ocean Builders company? I know. It's so easy to badmouth somebody for nothing. But you enjoy doing it, right?... maybe because it is easy to do, right?... and you like easy things, right?



Next time you want a car, don't go to a dealership and talk to the dealers about the benefits of the various vehicles. Rather, just go out and build you own car, thereby getting your own experience so you can find out what is factual. Lol. :D

franky1, you are such fun. :D

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I noticed by the way that huge number of people in the crypto community have some wild bias towards libertarianism/anarcho-capitalism/anarchism. They think that if they gathered with friends put up three tents and now call themselves an INDEPENDENT COMMUNITY (lol) then no one will touch them. Sometimes it seems that such people are either joking or children 5 years old who built a castle in the courtyard of cardboard and no one broke it, which means (in their opinion) everything works in this world.

That's quite an idea you have. We'll need to ask Elwar if something like that is even a remote consideration. A seastead in the form of a courtyard with a castle in it for 5-y-o children.

You should really be more explicit. Most parents would like to be nearby their children. Would the parents have their own seastead? Or would they simply be living upstairs or down?

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Parents will violate the principle of non-aggression, collapse your house and drive to home to eat broccoli and cauliflower  ;)

The system under which parents live with regard to their children is different than the way they live with regard to other families.

If you want to sink your seastead, why collapse it? Just drill a few holes in the side of the underwater part. The idea of having an underwater seastead is one that has been thought of many times.

Hydroponics is being used for growing all kinds of plants. I haven't heard of growing broccoli or cauliflower with it. However, being on the ocean, seasteading has lots of water and fish, so it might be worth a try.

Most of the time, driving a boat (or submarine if you live in an ocean-bottom seastead) is called piloting the boat (or submarine).

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So that's what happened to that Russian submarine that just sank - it was a libertarian underwater boat!

You forget that they didn't sink their sub intentionally. They weren't prepared. They weren't libertarian. Nor were they seasteading.

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This is a joke, nothing more.
The main idea is that any seasteading is a child's dream "here I will build a castle of boards and live in it!!!", but as soon as the hooligans come to destroy it, children run to their parents.

sleeping in a bed for a week on a vessel. is not seasteading
sleeping a few nights on someone elses vessel does not make you a seasteader
if that vessel was designed for a aerospace/oil rig industry. and you are a guest and your motives are to garner investment and promising people liberties and freedoms and citizenship. but not actually having anything they can actually call their own lifetime home on the sea. and not even in a truly international waters. or even in a new recognised 'civilisation' created by you.. is not the seasteading promise you promote to garner investment

elwars latest project is basically tourist leased "overwater bungalows" just done using resin walls instead of wood
trying to get $10k a week from people.
its that simple

nothing new, nothing not tried before by thousands of others

by the way you can get established ones already for just $1.5k a week. so elwars group has stupidly and greedily outpriced themselves for the market
and he did not even pick up on that hint months ago when i called it out

i feel sorry for the locals in the area he proposes to make they vacation huts in. they want tourism but elwar wants to outprice it for the area and make it imposible for even the locals to afford to buy one and lease out for vacationers. thus he is doing a dis-service to even them, yet promising them soo soo much

So, what do you think the definition of "seasteading" is? Perhaps the things you say are correct. But nobody who does those things alone, has said that he is seasteading. Certainly not Elwar.

Why not simply go to Wikipedia and talk a bunch of facts regarding stuff on the seas? That's all you are doing. You left a big bunch of info about what Elwar did, out of your description of what isn't seasteading. The fact that you didn't mention Elwar in what you said, shows you are simply blabbing some ideas... a thing that any blabber like you can do.


Since others have done it, why not Elwar? It's a business operation with a twist. Just because you are jealous of the fact that he is getting out there and doing something with his life, doesn't mean that you can't use him for a model, and make something out of your life besides a bunch of slanderous criticism and baseless accusations. Your drooling jealousy would cause you to bite yourself in the back of your neck if you could reach. If you act like you talk with friends and family, they have been gone long ago.


Didn't you ever hear of supply and demand? Don't you realize that if his stuff is overpriced that nobody will buy it? What does it matter to you if he fails because of overpricing or some other reason? Do you laugh at other people when they fail? Have you had so many failures in life that you need to get back at the world so that other people can feel hurt like you did? You really need to see a shrink.



Do you have any examples and evidence that Elwar is doing anybody wrong or harm? Come on. Let's see some actual facts from what he is doing and advertising.

This is kinda fun, isn't it? You attempt to tear people down, but don't have any evidence for most of what you say. So, it is easy to contradict you. But it doesn't matter, does it? It's all just blab, at least on your part. Are you honing your skills to become a better lobbyist?

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Mark January 3rd, 2021 on your calendar as a huge milestone towards seasteading.

This is the day when the first offshore floating community opens its doors for full-time residents to move in.

If you haven’t already heard, our friends over at Ocean Builders have acquired a massive 777 passenger cabin cruise ship via their new spinoff company, Viva Vivas. They have named the ship the MS Satoshi and she will be arriving in her new home several miles off the coast of Panama City just before Christmas.
This Saturday at 1pm Eastern join me, Joe Quirk, for a live call with the ship's owner Chad Elwartowski from Viva Vivas and Grant Romundt from Ocean Builders to talk about what life will be like aboard the MS Satoshi.

Signup here to participate: https://oceanbuilders.com/signup

Chad and Grant will also present the never before shown masterplan for the community and you can ask any questions you might have.

Ocean Builders is celebrating the launch of the Satoshi by auctioning off the first 100 cabins. They are offering very special pricing for early pioneers. You can find out more here: https://ocean.builders/cruiseship/.

https://www.seasteading.org/


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