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The idea behind atheism is the non existence of god.  This logic is inherently flawed as itself is a negative.  Non existence does not exist.  To say non existence exists is a fallacy.  It is like a riddle.

Likewise, nothing is nothing.  You cannot be nothing, nor can you become something from nothing, nor can you become nothing from something.  Existence is eternal.

You may conceptualize nothingness, perhaps as darkness or void, but you cannot perceive nothing, for nothing does not exist.

Try not to get hung up on the title, you may perceive atheism to exist, though the basis of atheism itself does not exist.

Former atheist that used to believe in nothing.

Dude - how much longer until you are killed?

You keep saying "soon", but it's just dragging on and on...

It could be a week, it could be months.  Either way, it is soon.

As a stern believer in the non existence of 'starfairies' or whatever you call god, do you wish to discuss the topic at hand, vod?

As I posted earlier, I'm interested in discussing with people that are not psychotic. 

You believe in non existence.  Not to label you, but that belief is delusional.  Psychotic: False beliefs about what is taking place or who one is (delusions).

The basis of non existence is a false belief.  It is a negative.

Tell me, how does something you can think about not exist?

It exists as a concept. You can think of invisible people, which doesn't mean they exist.

According to obama Atheism is a religion it seems.. Hahahaha!
He is never wrong, do not forget that little people!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RELIGIOUS FREEDOM DAY, 2014

BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

A PROCLAMATION

In 1786, the Virginia General Assembly affirmed an ideal that has long been central to the American journey. The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, penned by Thomas Jefferson, declared religious liberty a natural right and any attempt to subvert it “a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either.” The Statute inspired religious liberty protections in the First Amendment, which has stood for almost two and a quarter centuries.

Today, America embraces people of all faiths and of no faith. We are Christians and Jews, Muslims and Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs, atheists and agnostics. Our religious diversity enriches our cultural fabric and reminds us that what binds us as one is not the tenets of our faiths, the colors of our skin, or the origins of our names. What makes us American is our adherence to shared ideals — freedom, equality, justice, and our right as a people to set our own course.

America proudly stands with people of every nation who seek to think, believe, and practice their faiths as they choose. In the years to come, my Administration will remain committed to promoting religious freedom, both at home and across the globe. We urge every country to recognize religious freedom as both a universal right and a key to a stable, prosperous, and peaceful future.

As we observe this day, let us celebrate America’s legacy of religious liberty, embrace diversity in our own communities, and resolve once more to advance religious freedom in our time.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim January 16, 2014, as Religious Freedom Day. I call on all Americans to commemorate this day with events and activities that teach us about this critical foundation of our Nation’s liberty, and show us how we can protect it for future generations at home and around the world.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this fifteenth day of January, in the year of our Lord two thousand fourteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-eighth.

BARACK OBAMA

Atheism isn't a believe in the non-existence of god, it is saying "I don't believe you when you claim that god exists, because you don't have any evidence."

That's all.

Non existence is quite different from invisible people, the former being a negative.

If you can think about invisible people, do they not exist?  Otherwise, how did you fathom the thought of invisible people in the first place?


That's got to be the only thing I've heard from obama's mouth that I agree about.  Disbelief of everything is the same as believing in nothing.

Don't believe is equal to disbelief which is equal to believing in the non existence of something.  Disbelieving creates a negative, false statement.

Look at it like this, if nothing is nothing, then everything is everything.  If the universe is everything, then everything is the universe, right?

And can something exist outside of everything?  Or is everything something?

These are just word games.
It has nothing to do with logic.

<plonk>

What are words but labels that convey logic?

Hey nut job.  Why did you post in this this thread pretending you were an alt?  Just to troll?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=417413.0

Why do you derail every topic with childish insults rather than having an intellectual conversation?

Would you care to first explain how you can think of something if that something does not exist?

Answer the question nut job. Is that your alt account, or did you post just to be a troll?

Answer mine first, you're welcome to leave this thread if you cannot retain to the topic in the OP.

How you can think of something if that something does not exist?

can you*

But you have no problem going into other people's thread and ruining their transactions?  Then you demand people stick to the topic in yours?   ::)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=417413.0

You've sold all your possessions for pot, now suddenly you have a couple R9 290's to sell?

You are either a liar, or a troll.  Personally I think you are both.

I will explain everything shortly after you give a valid response to my question.

And I hate to judge you, but you're quite judgmental, I will leave it at that.

Let's see your word vod, tell me your convictions rather than opinionated negative assertions.

How can you think of something if that something does not exist?

How is this acceptable?  You can't comprehend something so you attack the person saying it with lies and judgment?  I gave my possessions away in 2012, I did not sell them for cannabis.

This community should not operate through defamation.

Please make your own flame dank thread if you wish to continue your belittling attempts of debasing the truth.

And the truth is, you can't answer this question with a logical response: How can you think of something if that something does not exist?

Obviously not all your possessions, liar.

Way too easy.   ::)

You're mixing up nihilism with atheism here.

You're right, by 2013, I was left with my guitar, amp, and clothes.


Sheep, I believe this topic applies to both atheists and nihilists.

Same applies for God. How could he become something from nothing? Nothing can be here without something being prior to it.

Why can non-existence not exist? If you can talk about, it has to be at least something. Some concept in your mind, just a word but something.

Why does this topic keep popping up in this forum???  ::)

God is not something from nothing, existence always has and always will exist.

Exactly!  If you can talk about non existence, then it may be a conceptualization of nothingness, but in of itself, does not exist.  If non existence is something, a concept, then it is not nothing.  You may conceptualize nothing, which would still be something, but you may not perceive nothing, as nothing is nothing.

Trippy stuff.

Because. Bitcoin.

this is so deep I appeared in China :D

if they don't believe in god, and god doesn't exist
then they don't believe in nothing,
you can't believe in something that isn't there

mindblown

but still, this is kind of offensive and you shouldn't have posted  it, denieing someone their religious beliefs can most times cause aggresive responses :D
just don't do it anymore :D

You guys are missing the whole point of this thread.

If non existence does not exist and we live in an infinite universe, logically, god must exist.

Furthermore, if you can think of god, then god exists.  How can you think of something that doesn't exist?  You can't, trust me, I contemplated the void of death as a little kid and it scared the shit out of me because it was impossible to comprehend.

Then that's a sign you have the fallacious belief system, if you cannot adapt to new understandings of yourself.  Religion, or spirituality, is supposed to generate positivity, not negativity, in oneself.

This is why I don't argue with a psychotic.

Only he can understand what he writes.

No, you can't argue with anyone because you don't debate anything.  You defame people rather than opening your mind to listen, think, and respond.  Then maybe you would learn something.

Many people understand what I'm saying, a majority of the population believes in god.

Anyone???

Your logic is flawed because you are basing in on word play based on English words, its like saying glass is half empty, it can never be half empty or even completely empty...

And also atheists believe that God is a fabrication of human mind, like a acid trip, they don't believe in non existence of it....

I can think of unicorns, therefore unicorns exist. Holy shit, that's amazing.

I think you are talking about anti-theism,a person who knows there is no god from choice and knows that other people think there is a god
Atheism is the defualt religion of every born child

Well, no, there are people saying they're atheists while therey aren't and others who ARE REAL atheists.

I'll just run through a few definitions before this topic takes off. If you can't stick to these definitions, don't bother posting because all you are doing is abusing the english language, then telling others they don't understand your inferior interpretation of a dictionary (a book, not written 2000 years ago by a sheep herder).

Theist - Somebody who believes (or even KNOWS) that there is a God or some sort of supernatural entity. To them it a statement of fact.

Atheist - Somebody who is not convinced. They have been subjected to what others are purporting to be 'evidence' and remain unconvinced. Either through not enough evidence, or logic that they consider false. On the subject of a God, they tend to perceive the question as, 'Are you convinced of my God?' The answer is always along the lines of 'Not convinced' from an atheist.

Agnostic - Is really a 'polite' way of saying Atheist. I don't understand why this term is used to pamper to somebody else being offended that you are godless. Essentially, an agnostic looks at the question as being unanswerable. 'Are you convinced of my God?' the answer an agnostic would give would be along the lines of 'We can never know'. The truth is, if they think the question is unanswerable and they do not have a god, they are therefore unconvinced and godless, therefore an atheist. Hence the term 'agnostic-atheist'.

Anti-theist - Somebody who believe (or even KNOWS) that there is NO God or some sort of supernatural entity. To them it is a statement of fact.

----

With those definitions sorted, a Satanist is a theist, as they are the only ones that support a supernatural ideology. An agnostic is really an uncertain atheist that is actually just trying to be polite because they think their thoughts are offending outspoken religious people. An agnostic tends to be more caught up in the question instead of an evaluation of the answer, nothing wrong with that, each have their own way of processing. The conclusion is though, they are both the same at the end.

The theist usually declares themselves the most humble, and all others are ignorant of 'something', then usually quotes a biblical reference from a book that in itself is the very object of contention in the debate. The overwhelming truth is, claiming to know an answer when it is unverifiable is just arrogance, and claiming, 'I am unconvinced' or 'I just don't know' is the most humble approach to take because you are aware, and content, with getting on with your life without filling the gaps in our knowledge of the universe with dehydrated dog shit.

Regards,
Very humble richo.

I do not see the correlation in the first example.

Fabrication of the human mind does not mean it isn't real.  Emotions are fabrication of the human mind, as are thoughts, yet they control every aspect of what we do.  Like an acid trip, everything you perceive is real.  Acid removes the lens that filters your reality, so to speak, and connects you to other dimensions that always have and always will be present.

When it comes to it, everything is a fabrication of the human mind, what is sound but sound waves and color but light waves?

Exactly.


Richo, I've seen a good bit of atheists with a nice touch of anti-theism in their words or mindset.  Regardless, this logic should apply to everyone who does not believe or is unsure if they believe:

Nothing is nothing.

Everything is everything.

The universe (totality of existence) is everything.

Therefor, you are a part of everything, the universe.  Can we agree on this?

I'm sorry, I don't have the time to humour or debate with somebody that thinks taking a mind altering substance that changes brain chemistry is genuinely a journey to another dimension.

I can tell you what is going to happen, you'll say a series of points that are irrefutable such as nothing is nothing, or a chicken is a chicken, then after I've agreed with you for 10 or so points you've made you'll say a chicken is a horse and with some twisted and false logic link it back to previous agreement I have made.

Not interested.

I'm guessing you've never taken a psychedelic to see for yourself?  I'm guessing you've never experienced egodeath, which is the same as a near death experience?

Refusing to debate someone because they used mind opening drugs before..  Well, you know what they say, ignorance is bliss.

Tell me this at least, if you see another dimension that you did not once see, is it not real?

If it is not, please explain how the brain experienced it.

Then you can realize that we are constantly shifting dimensions in every waking moment of the present.

If you have trouble understanding the logic, I will write it out differently.

Nothing is nothing, unless it is something.  Then if it is something, it is not nothing.

Do you see?  Nothing can be described as a concept though the very meaning of nothing is non existence, which does not exist.

dank says many people understand him.

Second call - is there even one person out there?

No wonder there's been a lack of LSD on SR lately..

I don't need to be a grand pianist to understand how a piano works or appreciate music. I don't need to put my tongue in a ban saw to understand machinery or experience pain.

I certainly don't need to take drugs to understand those drugs are making your brain go haywire and cause hallucinations, they certainly did not open a portal to another dimension.

So I'm being educated on 'logic' by someone that is 24/7 tripping off their balls ...

Hey




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Send somthing BTCBTC

Well, to answer the original question, I'm a Roman Catholic, so for sure I would agree that there has to be something out there that is responsible for our existence and we didn't just surface out of nowhere. But if you will speak to an atheist, then they will defend their views and say that there is no God, because if there was then why would He allow pain and suffering to innocent people. So technically, atheism exists, but the truth is that it really doesn't. Some people just don't want to acknowledge a higher power, because they need a tangible evidence and explanation for everything, when in fact, a lot of things in this world remain unexplained. 8)

If only you knew...

It's like explaining colors to a blind person, if you can't see them, you have no room to say you understand them.

I've experienced telepathy on some of my first acid trips at the beach.  Along with a divine feeling of complete peace, but I guess that's just the drugs, right?  Even though I broke into tears of happiness when I arrived home and saw life in a whole new perspective, completely reborn.  Are you going to tell me those feelings weren't real?

Ha back in 2012 maybe.  Your point?  LSD increases the sensory input of your brain, which makes you more aware, unlike mind numbing drugs like alcohol.

Enlighten yourself, connect yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records

Yes, that is just the drugs. Of course it is the drugs, it wasn't the ham sandwich you had for lunch.

Feelings are subjective, the drugs scrambling your brain is objective. They are both 'real'. Objective observations are reality, subjective impressions are perception of reality.

The truth is, you are just a brain in a jar. Your hands, tongue, ears, eyes, nose are all just sensory inputs. Grass is not green, it is every colour but green. We see it as green because we observe the light that was not absorbed. Our senses give us the best information of our surroundings so our brain can compute it as best as possible.

If you want to add mind altering substances into the equation, you can expect all your sensory inputs to become altered. Well, how the brain computes this information.

You have achieved nothing more than altering your perception or reality. You did nothing to change reality.

Unfortunately your brain has clearly taken its toll with the drugs and it is now permanently scrambled.

Everything is perception, everything alters your awareness, everything is drugs.  Psychedelics quite literally expand your senses and open your mind to senses you didn't know you had.


So the dog with two weeks to live from terminal cancer, that I quantum healed, that did not change reality?

The first time tripping with other people at the beach and a lamp jumps off a table, everyone saw it but no one was around it, that did not change reality?

And to my previous point, the thoughts, knowledge, wisdom and peace obtained through exploring the universe within, that did not change reality?

It's changing your reality at this very moment.

Can you answer this:

The universe (totality of existence) is everything.

Therefor, you are a part of everything, the universe.  Can we agree on this?

How about you look up the definition of drugs?
drug  (drg)
n.
1.
a. A substance used in the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of a disease or as a component of a medication.
b. Such a substance as recognized or defined by the U.S. Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.
2. A chemical substance, such as a narcotic or hallucinogen, that affects the central nervous system, causing changes in behavior and often addiction.
3. Obsolete A chemical or dye.

So no, not everything is drugs.

WTF quantum heal, terminal cancer dog?

I think you're still tripping balls.

That is all. I don't believe in any gods because there is no evidence for a god at all. Not a single shred. It would be neat if there was. Also it would be cool if dragons were real.

Everything is a chemical.  Every chemical effects your state of awareness.  The oxygen you breathe, food you eat, the water you drink and the fluoride within it are all chemicals that change your state of being.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-J7cnUV28Q


Your existence is evidence in itself.

Let go of the preconceived notions fed by society that god is one almighty human that lives in the clouds.

God is the universe.  God is all.  God is love.  God is consciousness.  God is positivity.

And you can't have negatives without positives.

Certainly wasn't this dog.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=401658.0

The community rallied to pay for this dog's surgery, while the selfish prick dank injected himself with drugs and did nothing.

But he still claims he can cure dogs of cancer.   ::)

That to me reads "Nothing is something. Not nothing is something"

There may be a God - but in the absence of evidence I remain sceptical.

Great thread - totally bonkers - but great and good humoured.

In fact, I reckon with a few j's I would be peeing myself.

Sadly I don't smoke.

But I could I suppose revisit this thread when I've had a good drink inside me - and piss myself then instead  ;)

All the best
       dreamer

Wtf?  Get out of here you lying shill.  Go defame someone else.

1. Never did I say it was that dog, it was my neighbors dog.
2. Never have I injected myself with any drugs.

Now shoo.


It means just as it reads.  Nothing is nothing - this is the actual state of what nothing is - nothing.  But, if you perceive nothing to be something, then it is something.  But if you are perceiving nothing as something, then it is not nothing, for it is something.

Nothing is nothing unless you perceive nothing to be a conceptualization of nothingness as a void.

The hidden message this brings about is that negativity only exists if you perceive it to exist, otherwise, it's nothing.

Lying shill?

Did you do anything to help this dog the community rallied over?

Nope. All you did was inject drugs and get high.  You are a selfish prick.  Now go get murdered already and create heaven.   ::)

@dank

As far as I know an atom is not a chemical.

This is what makes you a mental person. Of course someone can believe that something doesn't exist, I believe, but can never prove, that Santa Clause doesn't exist as a man who flies in a sleigh at Christmas and comes down my chimney (I have no chimney, that's a riddle!)

The burden of proof does not lie with atheists, simply because you cannot prove the non-existence of something. It's like me asking you to prove that there are no unicorns on earth. Until you have checked ALL of earth, you cannot tell me that there aren't. So the burden of proof would be on me to find one to prove that it exists.

I do, though, think that zealous atheism is a product of religion. People who preach athiesm renew some of the worst features of Christianity and Islam, as they see it as a project of universal conversion.

It's not about accepting one person's view, but allowing people to make a free choice. That said, free will itself as an idea is also 'bible-borne'.

I think the title 'Atheism does not exist' is  a stupid one, and probably not what you meant. I say atheism does exist,  the burden of proof being on me here, because I can bring people to you who have atheist beliefs, whatever you categorise those beliefs as.

I never said you can't believe in negativity, I'm simply stating it is fallacious to do so.  We live in an infinite universe, it is completely improbable that Santa, unicorns and the flying spaghetti monster do NOT exist.

As I said, do not get caught up on the title, Atheism does not exist by the nature of non existence, it does not mean you can't perceive atheism to exist.

You really gotta use both sides of your brain to comprehend the truth through positives and negatives, we are conditioned to use our left side only.


Gtfo, you continue to lie and it's just gross and pathetic.  The fact that you're conscious about it makes you a pathological liar, so congrats, you're a sociopath.  I'll repeat myself as to stop your misinformation defamatory fear mongering, I have never injected myself with drugs.  You're just like the shills in the media that knowingly promote propaganda to instill fear into the population.

But I'm not lying - you are delusional.

You didn't lift a finger to help this dog, yet you claim you can.  EVERYTHING about you is a claim - you have done nothing positive with your drug filled life.

You cannot seriously tell somebody they're injecting drugs in their self multiple times after they said they've never injected their self with a drug.

And you have the audacity to call me delusional?

You're a sociopathic internet shill that's sole purpose of existence is to instill fear, negativity, into humans.

While my sole purpose is to bring world peace, complete infinite positivity to man kind.  And you're going to tell me I'm not doing anything positive?

You're speaking about yourself, please stop posting propaganda in my threads, it's no more than spam at this point.

This is why you can't even discuss with a psychotic - they forget what they have written even a few minutes ago.   :-\

Dank feels he is special.  He knows he will kill himself if he keeps injecting drugs into his body.  But he doesn't want to be just another statistic - so he makes up a story about being murdered soon so he can create heaven for the rest of us. (yup, nut job actually said HE would create heaven with his death!)

Then he claims his parents need money for food after he is gone - doesn't care about them enough to help himself.  Despite saying he would get a job, he continues to sit on his selfish ass and ask others to support him.  He has sold everything he didn't want for drugs, so now has to scam from the community to buy whatever mommy and daddy won't.

He claims he can cure cancer in dogs, but when a real life case comes up and everyone helps, dank sits on his ass and injects more drugs.

On top of all these, he calls other liars and psychopaths, when in his reality he is talking about himself.

Dank, I have done positive things and will continue to do so for this community, so I am not going anywhere.
All you have done is steal from others and lie to get whatever you think you can from this community.    GTFO

You don't say?!


Psychotic indeed, vod, that you are.

I'm not lying.  You have and continue to inject yourself with drugs.  Just because you don't believe they are drugs does not make it a lie.  The rest of the world can see the reality you cannot.

People are free to believe who they want.  I am intelligent, honest and contribute in this community.  You are a selfish thief, dishonest and psychotic.   GTFO dank.   :-*

I'll be dead honest with everybody - I have eaten a good bit of acid in my day.  LSD is the perfect drug in the sense it is the least toxic psychoactive chemical, especially given the amount it diminishes your ego (sense of negativity, fear).  It allows you to reflect upon your life from a collective perspective and let go of your past, it brings you peace.

I have never injected anything into my body.  I've never touched heroin or cocaine, or meth, even when offered free coke on one occasion, I said no.

You are a real character to consistently spout the same lies out your mouth in such a consistent manner.  Sorta disturbing tbh.

What this has to do with thread?  That's right, nothing, you're simply distracting and attacking as you do.

I hope you all can see through the idiocracy and irony of vod's behavior, otherwise, humanity's more lost than I thought.

You are a real character to consistently type the same lies out of your fingers in such a consistent manner.

But that is the definition of a psychopath - someone who has lost touch with reality.   :-\

Next time you are preparing to inject yourself - look at yourself in the mirror and tell yourself it really IS a drug.  Might save your life.  If you even care.

You were saying?

Nothing I post is characteristic of chronic mental disorder.

You on the other hand:

- claim to have cured cancer
- claim to have levitated
- claim to be hosting a million man concert where you will bring world peace
- claim to have talked to a god
- claim government agents are out to murder you
- claim heaven will be created by your death

I won't be bothered going on, as clearly you are psychotic.  (a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal social behaviour)

In the end dank, it doesn't matter if you think drugs are not drugs, or if you think injecting is not injecting.  You can believe whatever you want.  The confusion comes when you try to use your imaginary words in real life conversations.   :-\

When did I claim to have levitated?

And enlighten me, what exactly am I injecting?

Pathological lying is considered a mental disorder, by the way.

I guess Jesus was one psychotic dude, with all his miracles and what not.  Or perhaps just enlightened.

I guess you said you had levitated in a dream.   The rest is still enough to show a reasonable person that you are psychotic.

And here is another beauty I found while looking that up:


 ::)

I have both levitated and flown, on command, in dreams.  Life is but a dream.

"With the power of soul, anything is possible" - Jimi Hendrix

Or shall I say...

https://i.imgur.com/W3BXbZf.jpg

Why are people still actually trying to have a conversation with this guy? I put him on my ignore list almost a year ago now.

Not a good idea my friend, you're going to want to see the announcement of when I'm killed, for you should probably prepare.

So you are planning to get murdered, then come back and post the details on this forum account?

Let's add:

- claims to be able to rise from the dead

 ::)

I think my family and friends are capable of doing so.

But yes, I will resurrect at the music festival to ascend the world into a higher dimension of existence.

Your plan is flawed.  You think you'll be murdered soon - there will be no one to plan and have the concert.

Unless your plan is to be killed 72 hours before the convert, and then rise from the dead three days later?   ::)

Good idea, doing the same now. I thought this would be an intellectual conversation about religion, how wrong I was... ???

But it's not about having no concept of God, it's about not having a belief. That's not just knowing a bunch of stories I heard at school. It's believing in the power they represent and that, physically or not, God exists. I get your point that God can equal a number of things, but I believe in free choice. That doesn't get categorised as God to me.

My son hasn't been baptized, because I wanted him to choose when he is older, which was the same thing that was given to me; Choice. If he chooses to have a relationship with a God, then I will support him and help him in following his chosen path, but won't force it upon him. As I said before Zealous Atheism is practically the same as Christian conversion.

What are you exactly trying to say here OP?

Wait wait, just to be clear ... you took credit for curing cancer with your mind?

Do you even know what 'quantum' is?

Bringing a childs indoctrination into the equation means nothing. Any person that is impressionable can be taught anything as fact. Maturity separates things like jesus and santa clause from reality.

Listening to someone tripping balls and claiming when they are finished curing dogs of cancer (which wasn't published in any medical journal, funny that) they will be resurrected at a music festival is just too much. There needs to be a sitcom based on this guy. I'd pay to watch that. It is just hilarious.

By the way guys, I invented the spoon.

I was never properly rewarded for my invention to humanity so spoon related donations are welcome.

As always, shill vod seems to pull the topic away from what it is, seeing as he hasn't said one logical thing to debate the OP.

I've already proven enough for a reasonable person to see you are psychotic.  I guess it doesn't matter if you don't believe it - your mind is damaged.

No, you have proven your ability to compulsively lie, though.

I cured cancer in one dog, not all dogs.  And how is buddy doing?  That may make it two dogs I've helped.

I was never indoctrinated with any religion.  I grew up atheist.  I found god when I experienced egodeath, nirvana, and saw for myself just how real consciousness in a state of unity is.

What you need to realize is that we live in an infinite universe.  No matter how much you believe in santa or jesus, they still exist.

The power of positives and negatives through words is very useful once you understand how to perceive it.  Saying "unicorns do not exist" is a false statement, keyword not.  Saying unicorns do exist is a true statement, keyword do.

This doesn't mean they're present on earth, but it does mean they exist.  The same applies for god.

These negative perceptions are what create depression in our lives, thinking "I can't do this" or "I'm nothing" or "Nothing goes right" cause you to live in a state of delusion or falsity.  If we simply change the perspective of the world from within, our experience with the world will in fact change.  Believing "I can do this" or "I'm everything" or "Everything goes right" would be true statements and result in a positive shift in your reality.

I'm trying to convey the fallacy of negativity in that it only exists if you believe it does.  This knowledge, properly harnessed, can give you all the answers to your own existence.

Clearly, according to himself and this thread, dank does not exist.   ;D

(or his psychosis makes it impossible to remember one lie from the next)

Just listen to your words.  I never said atheists don't exist, I said their belief is fallacious.

But I think you knew this.  There is no way you're that delusional, you're clearly a negative being consciously spreading fear into public to distract them from the truth.  In other words, you're a shill, just like fox news propaganda pushers, though they can at least add a piece of logic to a conversation rather than spewing defamatory remarks to people with every sentence they speak.

And if you even read the OP, I said non existence does not exist.  I also said everything is everything, meaning everything exists.  So please enlighten me as to how your brain translated that to myself not existing?

You're right about that.


The syntax of that (English?) sentence is flawed.  However, the flaws go beyond cleaning up your English.  The belief that there is no god is just a belief.  It's not a "negative".  Yes, there is a syntactic negation in the sentential statement of that belief.  But even old Aristotle seems to have a better idea than you about how opposition relations (which *do* exist!) feed into natural language statements with negation (cf _The Categories_).


Uh, it's hard to figure out what you mean by that? ^^^.  Non-existance is a quality.  It's the quality of not existing.  Obviously (by definition!) you won't find that quality inhering any extant objects, but geez, is it really throwing you for this hard of a loop?


Dumb, dumb, dumb.  Really?  Existence is eternal?  Ok, so I guess the dinosaurs and the twin towers still exist...


Thanks for the permission to conceptualize nothingness.  Perhaps you might change your mind and allow us to conceptualize that God is something like that nothingness you mentioned.


So you used to be an atheist until you got yourself all confused with some pseudo-metaphysical sophistry?  I think you need a philosophy 101 course, dude.

Its self.  My bad.


"Nothing is nothing, unless it is something"  If non existence, or nothing, is a quality, then it is something, so it must exist as a conceptualization.  How can nothing be something if it is nothing?


In some other reality, yes, they do.  Universe is infinite.

Please explain how energy, which cannot be created nor destroyed, ceases to exist.


That is fine.  You may perceive god to be nothingness, but it is only your own reality that you are perceiving to be nothingness.  And by perceiving god through any amount, whether thought or belief, you are still confirming it's existence.


No.  I used to be an atheist until I experienced a great depression, looked within for answers, came out of that depression and experienced egodeath confirming the existence of god.

Egodeath is when your soul, consciousness, completely separates from the physical plane of the universe.  The fourth dimension is composed of specific and filtered light spectrums to create your reality of space and time, in other words, you see colors which create the illusion of division.  As we have learned, when you combine all these frequencies, colors, together, you get white light.  When you are separated from your sense of self, or reality, your consciousness inputs all frequencies of the universe.

This results in your vision turning to completely white energy of the highest form, consciousness, love, god.  Ego death brings the feeling of infinite love, it is a greater feeling than 1000 times the happiest point of your life, at a minimum.  It is what you experience upon death.

This kid's had multiple near death experiences and he describes the same infinite peace and white light of united consciousness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4LSEXsvRAI



Another testimony:

I don't see how that helps it?  So the sentence is now: "This logic is inherently flawed as its self is a negative." ?


You are mixing logical levels.  See the use/mention distinction.  There is the concept of a dog.  I label it with a term "dog".  This does not mean that the properties of the dog inhere in the term "dog".  The concept of nothing certainly exists and we can label it.  This does not equivalent to locating an instance of nothingness in the real world.  I feel like your logic would lead you do deny the existence of the color blue because the word "blue" has no color.


Ok, but I want to constrain my discussion to the current reality only please.


Who said it does?  I beleive that the old dinosaur energy was converted into non-dinosaur energy in the form of organic material on the Earth.  If you can allow me to believe in the non-dinosaurness of the present reality,  why can't you entertain that someone believes that there is no God in the present reality?


Wait a minute.  Conceptualizing nothingness is not the same thing as conceptualizing that I am nothing.  Who threw me into the nothingness?  Again, you confuse logical levels.   Here we have a person conceptualizing and we have the concept they envision.  Conflating the two things leads to confusion.  If this conflation feels mystical or gives you a religious feeling, that's fine.  But it's not the same as a logical assertion.  You shouldn't expect others to follow you.


Great, if your religion is helping you, I'm not against that.  I think your only mistake is suggesting that these mystical feeling you get from these poems you're writing equates with a logical necessity.  Thoughts are thoughts, people think them.  That some people think that there is no God is simply a belief that some people have.  Perhaps just as unjustifiably as your belief that thinking about the concept of nothing leads to contradictions (it doesn't!). 

This logic is inherently flawed as its self [non existence] is a negative.

How does that not make sense?


I've said this many times, you may conceptualize non existence.  You cannot experience non existence as if non existence existed there would be no way to experience it.

How can non existence truly exist?  It's a blatant fallacy.


If you are conceptualizing that you are nothing, you are clearly something, which is in the act of conceptualizing nothing.  It doesn't make you nothing.


Think about this, what are thoughts?  Do you think perhaps they may be other dimensions us multidimensional beings are able to connect to?  Just like when you dream, we connect to other realities, other dimensions.  Though humans have not evolved to fully connect to these other dimensions, yet.

Everything exists right where you are, there are infinite dimensions/frequencies to tune your mind to, we just need to learn how to do it.


Likewise, if your religion, atheism, is helping you, go for it.  But I don't see very much peace to gain, from experience, with the fallacious belief system that we grow up and die into nothing.  I've contemplated this long and hard as a young kid and the reason it scared me so much is because I couldn't comprehend non existence.  Little did I know, it's because non existence does not exist.

What poems are you speaking of?  I quite literally left my body and the physical realm of reality to see a completely infinite white light of love.  If that doesn't prove something, then idk man, you'll just have to wait till you die to see for yourself.

Non-belief in the existence of the supernatural != belief in the non-existence of the supernatural.

It does not make sense because a negation does not entail a contradiction.  Your statement reads as if all "negatives" are flawed.  I believe there are no elephants in my bedroom.  This is a "negative" (your term), yet I find no contradiction in the statement and I observe no elephants in my bedroom.



You are playing a puerile word game.  Word riddles are cute but don't equate to sound reasoning.  Surely you admit the non-existance of any number of nonsense scenarios I can put forward.  Do you really believe that everything you imagine is 'real'?


Stop it!  I am not conceptualizing that I am nothing.  Its another one of your misdirections.

Don't worry about me and my religion (skepticism).  I'm surprised you think your mystical reports would prove something to me.  I only accept 'proof' in a very small set of circumstances (basically closed world systems).  Your mystical poems are cute, but they aren't logic.  If you admit that, I'll leave you alone.

You seriously have no idea what atheism or even religion even means. Stop talking like a child.

Judging by the responses that seems to have totally ignored the definitions I put forward.... people are still under the impression it is binary what you believe in. You either believe their is, or their is not.

What about those that are just not convinced but if science could prove some prime mover (god, aliens, a large ball of spag etc) caused the universe then they would out of natural curiosity want to investigate it and may adopt that approach? What about the apathists (yes I coined that word), the group of people that just don't give a fuck?

It is not binary. Atheist is just not convinced, the onus if on anybody else with any idea to convince them of that idea. Brand us what you like, just don't try to debate with us any "logic" at the same time. The OP here has failed at the very title of this thread. Had he have said 'Anti-theist' instead of 'Atheist' it may have had some sort of meaning.... to somebody that also had limited oxygen in the womb.

All it really says is 'A person that is not convinced does not exist' ... errr ... wtf?

The idea of atheism is more like :
Believers, believe whatever you want. But remember and adhere to the 11th commandment : Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself!

I know it's a hard to grasp concept for believers, but some people rather base their lifes and decisions upon knowledge or probabilities where sufficient knowledge is unavailable (yet).
And just like believers are better off not trying to "convert" other people, "non-believers" are usually better off not trying to point out all the nonsense in biblical/religious details.

(was forced to do that only once, due to certain "believers" ringing at my door on an unsuspecting Saturday every freaking year for a full decade - at a far-less-than-convinient time in the morning... Within 2 Minutes of talking, I dismantled and blew up the entire foundation of their believes and that entire construct went down within seconds like WTC7. I don't normally do that - but those ladies worked really hard for it and as a result, actually never returned)

Both worlds will have to co-exist on the planet for a long time to come.

http://marcel-oehler.marcellosendos.ch/comics/ch/1992/04/19920406.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGASvVqzOa0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGASvVqzOa0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE8ooMBIyC8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE8ooMBIyC8)
(Caution : religious persons might find these videos highly offending and/or disturbing - for all others it's potentially top quality entertainment ;) )

The point of this thread was proof through mathematics and logic that god exists.

If nothing is nothing, everything is everything, everything exists.

This is a completely valid and true statement.  Add to the fact that we live in an infinite universe, there are infinite dimensions and you are constantly changing dimensions as you read this.  It is statistically 100% improbable that god does not exist, that an elephant does not exist in your room and that we aren't having this exact same conversation somewhere else at this very moment.  It is up to you to tune yourself to that reality and make it exist in your perception.

Also consider widening your concept of god.  Think simpler in terms of ego being negative and god being positive.  God means all, god means the universe.  You are a part of everything, you are a part of the universe, you are god.

But you said Atheism doesn't exist in your title. Lol. Maybe time to close this thread.

*uhm*
Don't know how to break this to ya... but I'm afraid it's back to math school for you.

PS.
If you have 0 Dollars in your wallet, you have nothing there. If everything is everything and everything exists, you'd have an infinite amount of Dollars in your wallet.
=> pseudo-argumentation and flawed & twisted derived logic, I won't recommend anything for you there as it should be obvious. You already described your issues in the original post.

Who created this i have something for you: PLZ RKO yourself!!!!

I think OP meant

Atheism means you shun the idea of God but there for you know there is God but refuse to acknowledge his presence, therefore making the idea of atheism useless.

Atheism does exist, it exists to be mad fun of by people that don't care about the cult of non-belief.

Now God on the other hand. Don't mess with God he will F u up.

quite a one sided argument...
non belief is not a cult and unless he isn't the God that everyone describes him as then he wouldn't be fuckin anyone up now would he?

Religion exists to be made fun of by people that don't care about the cult of belief.

Yes it is true we all choose which group of priests and wizards to believe in.

Atheists choose their board certified doctors, psychiatrists, and committees of scientists that make them feel comfortable with their value system, morality, and emotional priorities.

The religious choose Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, whatever.

Personally i think Jesus would kick Hawkings ass but that is just me.

God F'd up the Caananites, what are you even talking about.

As for atheism not being a cult you are as delusional as the kool-aid drinkers. Once you join you can NEVER leave.

did you get that from the Bible... a book about  God made by man?

Whose side are you, exactly? Jesus is a hypocrite that would use violence against an innocent cripple?

Yes

I am on Jesus' side because he would win. But in all seriousness, my kicking ass comment was clearly mistaken as a physical confrontation, which would be silly because my 5 year old would kick Hawkings ass. What was clearly intended was that Jesus would kick Hawkings ass in any battle of pied-piper cultism.

When in doubt get behind God, he is all poweful.

no this is completely false. it is the opposition to the belief that god does exist. so for example. i recognize that im just one of a billion spec of algae on one of a billion rocks on one of a billion stars in one of a billion galaxies in probably one out of a billion universes. I know that i have no idea whether god exists or not. I know my own limitations.

There are some people out there with the hubris to claim that they know with certainty one way or the other. I oppose those people because they are delusional, egotistical and narcissistic to think that they could possibly know something like that. they have no concept of how dumb they are. i may not be a genius but atleast i have some comprehension of how little i comprehend.

My opposition to this positive beleif on the part of some that "god, with certainty, does exist" makes me an atheist. and i dont want to hear all of this shit about agnosticism or w/e. just break down the word yourself. its a-theist, anti-theist, opposition to theists. not opposition to god, theists are not gods.

We do have the capability to know all because we are god, we have consciousness.  Think in terms of positive and negative.  Your soul, consciousness, awareness, knows all.  Your human part, fear, doubt, does not.  Consciously eliminate all negative thought streams and you are left with unconditional positivity, which is powerful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records

What makes you different from those billon rocks of a billion stars?  They are the same as you.  They are you.

Sutters Mill, if someone believes god does not exist, which there are plenty of people who do, they are basically saying they don't exist.  And again, if you are able to imagine god, there is no reason you cannot believe in what you imagine because you are channeling it's existence into your reality just by thought.

the dunning kruger effect deals with the fact that the more a person knows the more they realize how little they know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

what do you think this says about someone who believes that he can know everything?

is that guy serious, I think he just pretend to be stupid.
Are non believers in santa a religious cult of nonbelief?

You have not achieved this.


It's a meaningless statement, unless you can define those terms and provide context, which you have failed to do in 6 pages and counting.

"Statistically 100% improbable" lol

+1

We are nihilists!  We believe in nothing!!

All I'm thinking is damn, if somebody ever get's as stoned as Dank.. They have to tell the world about being a Philosopher like them.

I hate to say it, but Dank, please leave.

what on earth are you talking about. atheism doesn't claim any knowledge about god. in fact its almost the exact opposite of what you just claimed that it was. it is the claim that people ought not claim to know that god exists. break down the word. a-theist, opposition to theism, opposition to belief IN god. this is not a claim that god doesn't exist.

this is the great lie about atheism.

Even the most brilliant men in the world are specialists, collectively we can know much, but individually we rely on others as do all atheists, they trust and worship the viewpoints the greats among them. Atheism does have a belief system, core values, and strong belief in how life is created and what moral fabric we should wrap ourselves in, just like any religion does. Those things would only become more developed and uniform as atheism progresses.

In time, were Atheism to take over the planet, everything about Atheism would look exactly like what we call a cult today. If you showed any sign that you were a non-non-believer you would be outcast or worse.

and in that strange atheist future world, the mystery of what give chemicals life will still be a mystery and and still be a miracle

what on earth are you talking about.

From wikipedia: Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

That doesn't say ANYTHING about where life comes from or morality. Your parapgraph is like claiming that "most black people like chicken" there for the definition of Black person is "someone with dark skin who eats chicken".

I am glad you can read from wikipedia to counter my point.

Maybe i didn't speak plain enough. Atheists support each other, they look to wise men to support their beliefs, they even now congregate on Sundays to support one another and be edified in their own holy words.

Are you that blinded, Atheism is simply an effort to place their own belief system above others and  eventually atheism will be no different than what you tear down today. You may not ever call your supreme leader God, but you will eventually have one.

Atheism is another round in the constant human struggle of replacing one human control mechanism with another. In this case is is the ultimate ruse, lets demonize religion while we replace it with a religion of our own.

 

You think that if atheists support eachother must be members of a church?

I'll admit, the only thing I can appreciate about religion is it does have value communally, but only for those people that share that orientation ... for example, its charitable to one another, it aims to care for one another, it provides a basic human interaction that we all need, it is cultural ... on the other side it provides an outlet for priests to have a steady supply of children, it is responsible for some of the biggest wars (pre WWI/II) on the planet against those who do not share the same values, it spawned the KKK, it's values are set in something that is infallible and should never be questions (fascism), it is a business model that channels funds to one much larger organisation tax free.

You seem to think that if two or more people meet up in a room to discuss their perspective it is a church. The Alcohol Anonymous Church, The Lawn Bowls Church, The LAN Party Church?

I don't attend any Atheist Club (Church) meetings or whatever you would like to call it. I can tell you this, I'd probably prefer it be labelled as a religion because then we get to do it all tax free, we would get to genuinely rip down all festivities on public property and say 'IT OFFENDS MY RELIGION' then cry, and call you a racist ... because it was the religious neanderthals that somehow merged the word religion and race together.

Atheist does not have a dogma, no text, no commandments, no specific way of life, just an investigative mindset, a curious mindset, critical thought is the only commandment.

If a group of critical thinkers in one room is a church, then MIT and Mensa are now churches.

The reason why religious people want to declare Atheism a religion is so they can effectively try to diffuse our only statement of 'I am not convinced of religion' by saying, 'but you are in a religion'.

Atheism is as much a religion as being bald is a haircut. Or about how if you don't follow football and therefore don't have a favorite football team, 'No Football team' is your favorite team. Or playing a game of musical chairs and being the only left standing, declaring your lack if chair is still a chair ...

Ok I'm sure some atheists do that stuff. so what. that doesn't have anything to do with what atheism is. there for that comment where the word people was replaced by atheiest in the Dunning Kruger effect doesn't apply here. Im sure it applies to some athiests but im sure it also applies to some hispanic people and some gays and some basket ball players. Should we sweep them into such a broad generalization also?

I don't want to be a "church" member; it's insane.  ???

History says otherwise.

Napoleon, China, North Korea, Russia, the list goes on and on.

The first rule in controlling mankind is to take away their religion, doesn't everyone know that????

You can live in a fantasy world that atheism is about being free from religion, but it is a fantasy.

Clearly, you think "Atheism" is a 'thing'. It's not. It's the lack of a 'thing'.

Instead of the term "atheist" try the term "unbeliever". It might help you understand people who have a different view of the world to you.

Can we just agree that the idea of Atheism and Religion is all
subjective/relative?

Christians are so silly!

If heaven is so great then all Christians should be out skydiving and doing dangerous fun stuff.

If I believed in God I couldn't wait to meet him.

Instead, all they do is complain about how the rest of us are going to hell :p

Whether you call atheism unbelief, disbelief, or lack of belief, there is no logical reason to me that one would not believe in everything, for everything surely does exist.

It's like saying, I can see and think of the beach but I don't believe it exists.

If you can experience something, then that something is not nothing, it's part of everything.  So why believe in something but not everything?

its not any of those things. i already told you. its opposition to theism. or opposition to believing that gods exist.

*omg*

Just for a minute.... just for a minute - imagine what kind of world we would live in, IF everybody was actually employing that "logic" (which defies the very definition of logic but so be it).
Imagine everybody tossing out knowledge, common sense and reason and exchange it for.... believes.

*fomg* we'd die like flies...

Pedestrian
Oh, I believe it's safe to cross that road now... BAM hit by a vehicle driver believing noone would cross right now (believe death toll just increased)

Thirsty person
I believe that fluid coming out of that pipe is drinkable... BAM person found dead near chemical plant's release pipes (believe death toll just increased)

Airline Pilot in shitty weather
I believe we're pretty well on track for landing... BAM crashed into ground 5mi short of runway (believe death toll just increased)

Person in the zoo
I believe that wildcat isn't so bad, it looks so sleepy and friendly... BAM visitor devoured by a lion (believe death toll just increased)

Construction worker
I believe these cables should hold the weight I need lifted by that crane.... BAM 5 co-workers killed in freak accident (believe death toll just increased)

NASA 1st stage rocket assembly specialist
I believe those alloys should easily withstand the static and dynamic loads at launch.... BAM rocket explosion on ramp destroys launch vehicle and is major setback in NASA space program

Playing children near frozen lake
We believe that ice is thick enough for us to play on.... BAM tragic accident leaves only one survivor of 6, police divers still locating bodies of missing children (believe death toll just increased)

Mountain climber
I believe that difficulty 5 wall is doable for me... BAM another climber missing on the mountain, rescue teams still searching for clues (believe death toll just increased)

Person with medical issues
I believe those dark spots probably come with age, nothing to worry about... BAM rotten body found in home, neighbours shocked. Probable cause of death could be untreated skin cancer (believe death toll just increased)

Ship's captain
I believe the waters near the islands are deep enough to come close and greet my friends from the bridge... BAM newsflash : Costa Concordia capsized near island, 50 still missing (believe death toll just increased)

This list could go on forever...
Freaks me out there actually could be mentally retarded people roaming the streets betting their lifes on believes. I'd prefer waking up in Zombieland, rather than share the same location with such "believers".

Here's a hint for the OP :
Go diving into an unknown cave without oxygen tanks... Firmly imagine air pockets and oxygen just another 50feet further into the cave. Just keep diving deeper into the cave, because according to your "logic", those life-saving things should exist - because you thought of them, thus they must exist.

This is how they think.  If I look into myself and believe it it must be true.  Climate change is a hoax because that's how I feel.  I don't feel vaccines are safe, my kid will be magically protected from smallpox.  God exists because I feel him.

There's no need to reason with these people, they go off what they feel, not what has been proven.

True...

Their abandoning of reason (with everything that comes from it) IMHO is the primary cause for their irrational/delusional line of argumentation - which outside of religion would get anyone of us into mandatory psychological treatment in no time.

It often seems to me them focussing their entire lifes around these superstitions forces them ever-deeper into delusion, as they could never accept they wasted their entire life "believing" in all that man-made science fiction. As the harsh reality keeps kicking them around, they have to create more and more insane mental constructions & workarounds in order to preserve their beloved believes, regardless of how ludicrous they gets.
Either that, or they feel so terribly insecure about everything they encounter in life that this mental virus appeals tor them (the proverbial saviour), as it at least gives them a false sense of security they otherwise completely lack.

Pretty ironic, one could call them "lost souls" as they are truly lost cases basically...

"I dont understand something"

therefore

"God made it that way, and I don't need to think anymore"

Ignorance is bliss :p

Why oppose anything?  Better yet, why oppose love?  For that is what god truly is, the highest form of energy, consciousness.


And what more is reason than judgement?

What does science explain other than what we are physically able to measure?  Is it any more than law that dictates our own limitations due to what we perceive them to be?  Why does it fail to explain what we experience?  Dreams, thoughts, existence, death?  Love?

For one to realize the true existence of self, one must transcend beyond all language.  Words are created to describe concepts of our existence, do describe the essence of god.  When you are able to find no words, no thoughts, just now, then you will see the true being of the universe.

Judgement alone can be dead wrong, judgement is a follow-up thought process after information being carefully going through the filtering process of reason.
Science explains not only what we are able to measure, but also works the frontier of what is not able to be measured yet. Additionally, science yields the answers to the question why measurements actually come out the way they do under specific circumstances and effectively allows to calculate instead of build & measure.
This allows for planning with an optimum success rate.

Science also does not fail to explain what we experience, the processes of Neurochemistry are pretty well understood by now. I highly advise to get up-to-speed with the current scienfitic knowledge.
Where science does not have definite answers yet, it works on achieving them step by step. This is the natural process of science and not a failure of any kind - after all there's no magic involved and aquiring knowledge takes time.

Also, never confuse "perception" with science, these are two entirely different worlds (and human perception is pretty well understood by science). Again, please get up-to-speed with current scientific knowledge instead of making such clearly uneducated claims.

Note that our existence is not bound to "language" or words/speech of any kind. Words are created solely to communicate and store/pass along knowledge and information - and have absolutely nothing to do with superstitious make-believes/god etc.

When you are able to find no words, no thoughts, just now, then you either should go see a doctor (if it's a repeating occurence) or just take your time. You'll find words eventually (otherwise try to improve your language skills and boost your vocabulary).
The true being of the universe has absolutely no relation to literally anything you wrote.

Technically speaking, you either suffer from a severe condition or are what some people call a "religious robot". If have no better explanation for the utterly senseless stuff you write that is bursting from flawed pseudo-logic and absurd claims and false conclusions.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean science hasn't explained it.  It just means you don't understand it.  When religious people say that the human eye is so complex it must be formed by god, it just means that they aren't smart enough to go research how it formed over time.  Oddly enough, you're just as clueless how your smart phone works, but you don't think god made it for some reason.

There is no proof of god therefore by your logic god does not exist.

Your logic however is flawed. The one who is trying to prove a negative is always the religious person in a given debate.

The atheists simply point out that the concept of god has no predictive capacity. You have the burden of proof with no proof.


Game Over.

Religious people also completely ignore the scientific method, which is also a non-starter.

So you don't oppose the willful torturing of new born babies?

Either you do not oppose the willful torturing of babies or you do and you would say something like "why oppose anything?" anyway. Either way its pretty good evidence that you are mentally ill. I'm not saying that to hurt your feelings. Im saying it because recognizing something is the first step towards correcting it.

I understand that we live in a world of lies where more than half of everything we are ever told from friends, families, authorities, and even scientists is fiction. Sometimes its easy to go to far is lashing back against this. Considering the sorts of things that you occupy your mind with you really ought to consider engaging in a deep study of epistemology. It may help you to regain some rooting in reality. Hell with the way your mind works you may even be able to add something to the field. But you HAVE to be rigorous and that means that you have to look for, identify, and REJECT paradoxes. You can not passively accept paradoxes.

comments like this make atheists sound like idiots

Scientific law is just that, law.  And you know what they say about rules, right?  They're made to be broken.  I have first hand experience that it is possible to exploit the laws of physics.  Once we abandon their stronghold against our dreams, our dreams will become as real as life itself.


As to that, please try meditating yourself before throwing outlandish phrases at an individual.  Any Buddha, monk, yogi or truly enlightened individual has experienced life without thought.  When you are devoid of thought, you are truly in the present and focused on this reality.  This is how people fall in love, with them selves or others, through feeling, not thinking.


This thread is not about proof.  It's about logic.  If everything is everything, then everything exists.  God is everything.  God is the universe.

You are the one proposing a negative, if you haven't noticed. 

You are the proof, but I cannot make you realize this.  You must look into yourself, find your consciousness and you will have all the proof you could ever ask for.  You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink it.


There are two sides.  The divinity in me sees all actions taken upon the universe as perfect, as nothing is good or bad, everything just is.  This is not to say I condone the actions taken, but rather accept them as they are.  I'm taking a bullet by the government in order to prove the truity of my words.  Would I rather we all just grow up and get along?  Yes.  Though I accept things as they are, as they are perfect and part of the divine order of the universe, otherwise fate.  It's clear there is no true way to convince others to believe in their selves, you all need proof.  Alas, this is why I must be murdered, so you can have proof and grow as a being.

Then the human in me, well it's like this, "Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

But this is just the law of karma.  All negativity you output into the world comes around back to you.  Same with positive energy.  Once we understand how to harness the positive energy in a manner where a feedback loop is created of more positivity, you will find feelings of peace you did not know were possible and you may find that you really can do anything you believe with no one casting their shadow of doubt onto your realm.

But let's be real, contrasting torturing babies to opposing a belief is completely absurd.

This is just confusing ???

i never contrasted those things. they were completely unrelated. I was using torturing babies as a means of applying the Socratic Method to the statement that implied that things ought not be opposed.

Don't oppose the fact that things shouldn't be opposed!

Interesting. Tell me, how many joules is this energy of which you write?

Karma is just a law. And you know what they say about rules, right?  ;) I have first hand experience of breaking the law of karma. So  :P

You know what they say about people who say they break the laws of physics?  That they don't understand the laws of physics.

*uhm*
What you're suggesting is that physics is something man just made up and written up as a "law" like a lawmaker... This is truly one of the most unknowledgeable things I've read in a long time.
But for starters, since it's (according to you) just a law man made up, try exploiting gravity and move up just a few thousand feet away from the planet in altitude. You'll immediately notice a small problem to your logic ;)
Physical laws are mathematic descriptions of our environment to our present best knowledge, nothing more. And they can change (usually extend) under certain circumstances, that's how science works by its own definitions.

Again, I'm noting you are lacking the most basic education here. Could it be you never went to or finished school?
If you think you have first hand experience that this is possible, what are you still doing here arguing on the internet ?! Take your best shot and give proof to the scientific community. Oh wait, I bet you a year's pay or equivalent that you just fooled yourself.


I really don't know how to break this to ya... But as opposed to religious people of any kind (or yourself), I actually am quite focussed on reality. Given the severe nonsense you've written up so far, it would appear being "devoid of thought" isn't exactly something positive or desirable. Unfriendly people define that state of mind as "being brainless stupid" and technically speaking, they're spot-on. You yourself are giving the best example.
I merely analyze you and present you a mirror to see yourself as you really are - something you're persistently closing your eyes to... = delusional.

You very precisely fit the symptoms that are found in many "convinced believers" (which by itself is a 100% self-contradiction that evades most religious persons). Severe lack of education, severe lack of common sense or reason, generally an almost infantile "logic" garbled and twisted beyond comprehension. That's what I call a "religious robot", a person easily infected and clinging onto make-believes due to complete lack of mental capabilities to comprehend its own environment. The believes serve to cover-up a psychological defect that is best described as a general phobia against everyday reality and the severe insecurity resulting from it.

PS.
I'm normally noone to judge others but "feeling" certainly serves its purposes. However, what you're suggesting is that feeling is all you need to go through life - this is a very, very, very foolish idea because it's so wrong on so many levels. It would explain your behaviour, though.
When was the last time a Buddha, monk or yogi made any globally relevant breakthrough discovery? After all, according to your "logic", these people must be the absolutely clearest and brightest heads mandkind has.
Oh wait.... they never did. No clergyman of any modern religion has, no matter how hard they meditated. The arguably best that ever came from some of such people is Philosophy, which is highly debatable by its own nature. You'll be the judge of that.

If it wasn't clear we're talking religion here, your statements would (at best) cause friendly hints like "dude, don't do drugs! It's obvious they're bad for you".
This is how bad religion can become on some people. After all, even the destructive effects of most hard drugs can be treated - religious infection however usually can't.

Anyway, go ahead and continue potentially ruining your life by solely "believing" and "feeling". Good luck - you'll seriously need it, wandering around mentally blind in this world.

And this is where one is able to transcend karma through singularity, otherwise, after your dead.


Falcon, you're confusing induced peace and presence in this moment with pure thoughtlessness.  Clearly I am not thoughtless, or I would not be having this conversation.  Calling meditation brainless stupid is quite ironic as you yourself have not explored past the surface of your mind to know how it works or what it is capable of.

As for saying yogi's, Buddhas, monks and the like have not contributed anything is completely false and they provide one of the most overlooked achievements of humanity.  While everyone is out and about destroying the earth to build bigger machines, weapons and wealth, these people have realized that none of those are essential to life at all and are honestly counter productive to achieving inner peace.  And that is the most valuable, or invaluable, achievement to exist.  Positive energy, love, peace, you would be nothing with out it.

Perhaps the reason it is so unappreciated is because we have been raised in a society that flaunts egotistic thought processes of material and mathematic law while completely ignoring the rest of the functioning mind.  We are not taught to use all of our brain as children.


Yes, please enlighten me as to how it was physically possible for a lamp to jump off a table in the middle of the room with many people observing it fall but no one being near it.


Can anyone please debate the words I said rather than ridicule them?  I feel like I'm still talking to vod.

Don't get me wrong, some people derive positive things from meditation (I know that) so there's a place for that.
A thought isn't simply a thought, however... Thoughts can be right, wrong or outright non-intelligent, depending on how much brainpower and consideration went into them.
While you can't know it, I'm using far more than just the surface of my mind - which in turn allows me to think far deeper and analyze, where others long failed/gave up and surrendered to "believes".


I didn't say they contribute nothing... But they're serving an isolated niche of human desires/needs and offering alternative way of life - if you prefer that.
Note though, they do realize just as well that inner peace doesn't feed them nor keep them warm in winter ;)
They have their spot on the planet for sure, but alot of things can never come from them. If the question is to be answered how to i.e. feed 7.1 Billion people on this planet or support them with energy, how to explore space or how to treat diseases, then they're clearly out of their league (apart from probably offering their philosophy).


That's a statement I can agree with.
The majority of humanity is unfortunately revolving around rather less humanitarian issues. But to be honest, it has always been that way since the dawn of time of our earliest ancestors and I don't see that changing.
In order to think different (which I do) however, I do neither need mentors, teachers or religion of any type. I have my own mind, values and principles which I freely use by my own will. No external support needed, certainly no "believes" of any type.
In general, I think it's safe to say it doesn't require any religion/believes to be a good person and do good, even if it means swimming against the biggest mainstream of primitive egoistic, material possession-hunting apes. I happily do that anytime I see fit, with great peace of mind (not requiring any tools like meditation or alike).

Can anyone name famous scientists that were atheists and others who were believers? Or believing in God makes you less of a scientist?

Being a scientist makes you less likely to believe in god.

I don't care if any of my workmates believe or not, as long as they aren't trying to tell me my own attitudes to life are invalid.


Only if you have trouble holding two conflicting or contradicting ideas at once. Most people can do this with ease.

That's a fallacy, science and spirituality don't have to conflict at all.  Science is the study of ego and spirituality of the soul.  Different perspectives, same universe, same being.  One looks in, one looks out.  Duality.

Einstein believed.

No, it isn't. I've never studied either of them.

Then you don't understand what they mean.  Ego in this case is the material world.  Soul is what you feel/see from within.

Why don't you just save us all some time and say "anything means everything but also nothing"

Sorry.  As a scientist I can tell you that 'study of ego and spirituality of the soul' is in fact not the current definition of science.  See the Wikipedia article 'science'. 

+1

As I said, science is the study of the physical world, what we can measure.  Think in broader terms, science is ego's outer perspective of the universe, philosophy is consciousness's inward perspective.

The "spirituality of the soul" cannot in any way be construed as a study of the physical world.

I think you read it wrong, I was referring to spirituality separate from science.

A friend on facebook posted this, so I'm quoting for truth.

"It's logically impossible to prove there is no God. You'd have to be everywhere in the universe at the same time. You'd have to be....God."

It's impossible to prove god isn't a spaghetti monster.

Which is why the flying spaghetti monster is one of infinite gods.

This is what you wrote:

Is there another way to read that?

I have a PHD in fuck and this is fuck.

Science is the study of ego, and spirituality of the soul.

To be more clear, science is the study of the ego.  Spirituality is the study of the soul.

Ah, I'm sure wars have been started over misplaced commas!

Crazy is a word for lack of understanding.

I'm actually talking to a doctor in hopes of her being able to help communicate the spiritual nature of the universe to my parents.  She told me this term of anti-psychiatry today in which the world is insane and the people considered crazy in today's world are the sane ones.

If you'd just take a look at what our society consists of, this is clearly evident.  Legalized theft.  Legalized murder/war.  No right to chose what goes in your body.  Slaughtering of mass amounts of animals through machines.  Humans stuck in a cycle of eating other beings that are in fact the same being as you.  Injecting neurotoxic drugs into nonviolent teenagers against their will.  Depletion of earth's resources, purposeful pollution of earth's environment.  Governments spying on their own people.  Governments killing their own people.  Governments creating enough nukes to blow up the planet 40 times.  Governments engineering biological weapons.

Yeah, I'd say she hit the nail on the head with that one.

Oh shit, then it must be true!!

You should add this to the end to make it seem even more valid

It's logically impossible to prove there is no God. You'd have to be everywhere in the universe at the same time. You'd have to be....God.
- Friend from Facebook.

You sir, are without a doubt, the biggest idiot I have every met.

Who's the idiot?  The one who judges words based off who said them or the one who judges words based off what they mean?

Hmm... Again, please recheck your definitions.
Yours may perfectly fit a crazy person pondering why the reality surrounding him doesn't seem to add up nor understands him.

I find it irritating that you label someone considering "help communicate the spiritual nature of the universe" a doctor. A person fulfilling such a task is clearly not a doctor.
The only thing possibly more disturbing is that you hope to infect your own parents with the same viral infection that took hold of your mind (with by now very obvious, catastrophic consequences - which you fail to even recognize -> which unfortunately partly fits the actual definition of crazy).
Being religious alone isn't much of a problem, being religious to the point where the mental virus starts its host to spread it (parasite begins to exhibit aggressive polyvirulence) is really where things go from bad to worse for an infected person.

Ironically, I actually see the 2nd half of your post above occuring as you write it. However, no matter how bleak the view or outlook on society may be or become - no reason to surrender to make-beliefes or any other pseudo-comforting surreal constructions. To a sane and clear mind, none of these are ever required.
Going from a troubled/decaying society and unknown future to build up fear and insecurity is the typical tool for religion to infect a weak mind. That's how churches filled their houses with sheeple for many centuries.

The key is to understand that this (in some form or another) has always been or seen this way - yet we're still alive.
Like and most presumably more like any other lifeform on this planet, humans are designed and built to endure, adapt & survive by nature. So far, the design surely has limits but it is quite successful.

lol wut?  She's not a doctor because she believes we are a unified being?  Are you serious?

I didn't know you couldn't believe in anything but science to be a doctor.

You really don't seem to understand that god is not an infectious disease, it is a perspective.  There are two perspectives to everything.  I will contrast the negatives to positives for you through the terms ego and soul.

Ego              Sad Hate Fear Confusion Separation Materialism

Soul Happy Love Peace Understanding Unity Spiritualism

Do you see the correlation?  Do you really believe trying to help my parents become more positive and at peace with their selves is a bad thing?  If you do, I'm going to assume you're still on the left end of this spectrum and have not experienced the true divinity of living in the moment disregarding all ego.  I've experienced levels of happiness that people won't experience until they die and I think it's only fair I give everyone the knowledge and wisdom I have learned so they can embark on their own journey of finding their true self.

Maybe you're not affected by seeing your parents dwell in complacent negativity, but I can't just watch people suffer and not try to help them.

Again... Science is not a believe. Science is knowledge. Try to get that into your head.


Something that doesn't exist isn't a perspective - it's called delusion.


Yes, some have a direct correlation. Some don't. Based on the few correct ones, that's called language. Has nothing to do with religion or believes of any kind.


First of all, I don't "believe". I either know or where sufficient knowledge is unavailable, assign realistic probabilities based upon all available information - fully knowing decisions based on these are done at max. in a high confidence band (mathematically speaking) and may require re-assessment at any time.
Trying to "help" your parents again has nothing to do with religion in the 1st place. Unfortunately, that's something believers can't get their limited minds around and thus that detail escapes them.
When I see people suffer, I do help them as well. How can that be? Oh wait... it doesn't take make-believes and superstition to do good or be a good person.

Oh, and please spare me of your "knowledge and wisdom".
Knowledge you clearly do not possess (how could you, you're a believer, which contradicts knowledge in the 1st place) and general lack of education you have demonstrated more than enough.
If you call your writing wisdom, then you just reasserted yourself as a lost case.

I surely don't know what PTSD or other psychological craters were once bombed into your mind (soul if you want to label it that way) concerning your Ego - but whatever that was, you sure couldn't handle it at the time - and not today.
It's none of my business but you show very clear signs of these. A very good psychatrist might help you, but there's no guarantee involved with that.
Your call to continue dwelling in self-complacent religious delusion - or (no offense intended) lift your arse and goddamn do something about it.

So you're telling me you don't believe you know something?  Have you experienced every instance and occurrence of scientific experimentation to form your knowledge?  Because if you're not basing your knowledge on what you have solely experienced, than you are, yes, having faith in the word of others.  Believing.


Are you telling me you feel no love, no peace?

And I think we should take a step back to where I said non existence does not exist.  Everything is everything, therefor everything exists.  To believe something does not exist in an infinite universe is delusional.


Care to share your perspective what words and language are?  Could it be science and spirituality are different forms of languages that describe our universe?


Sure you believe.  Maybe your ego, your false self doesn't believe, but I know part of you does.  You believe in the computer you see, you believe you're having a conversation with me, and I'd bet you believe that you exist.  Is that fair to say?

You know only what you experience, I have experienced things in the physical realm that confirm my beliefs.  I have acquired wisdom from deep within my mind, anybody is capable of doing so but it is up to you to let go of your negative side restraining you from accomplishing that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records

I don't know why you're throwing the word religion around, nothing I have talked about in this thread has to do with religion except atheism.  I believe in positivity, which just so happens to be the same thing as god though the later term has been grossly perverted by personification.  What is negativity without positvity to contrast it to?

Oh boy, you really are a thickie, aren't ya.
The whole purpose of science is that every other scientist can reproduce a scientific study under described conditions and... *drumroll* verifiy it.
This how it's done and has nothing to do with believes.
The pure knowledge to be able to confirm science by checking on its validity and independent publications (short of experimenting yourself) is what makes the process transparent.

No matter how hard you try to link science to "believe" , it's in vain, as it defies the very definition of science.
It's also clear you don't even know the most basic foundations of science (lack of education), thus your cedibility writing about it is reduced to zero.


What does lack of delusional behaviour have to do with human emotions? You're mixing stuff that is in relation to each other again.


That sentence was complete and utter nonsense when you first wrote it, and it still is today.


Care to understand that words and language have nothing to do with "perspective" ?
Could it be you're writing nonsense again? Science is there for you to confirm 1st hand or let others do it. It isn't a language but relies on mathematics to transport its core message.
Religion isn't a language either, just a make-believe mental virus that infects weak minds. Apart from that, it only exists in some infected humans heads. In reality, nothing of it exists.


*ugh* do you even read correctly?
As you're obviously incorrect, you believing you know I would "believe" in something proves your so-called knowledge is false and free of any coherent logic. State of denial at best.
I don't "believe" in computer I see, it's actually there and I know how it works (duh, small but big difference). The conversation we have - we have (obviously) and if I didn't exist... guess what, we wouldn't have this converation, now would we ?!

Seriously, you need a psychatrist or stop doing drugs.


...really don't do drugs. At least cut back on them. If no drugs involved - see a psychatrist ASAP.


Why do I not wonder you don't even remember what you wrote just hours earlier?
Your "logic" is so terribly incoherent, inconsistent and incomprehensible... I suspect you're really a special need person.

Anyway, I'm outta here, this is worthless. Lost case, religious nut.

I think you're missing what I said.  Beliefs formulate your reality.  Whether you believe in your thoughts, theories or everything, you're still believing in that something to take presence in your reality.  You don't think you have beliefs, rather believe you have thoughts.

Do you really consider love delusional behavior?  Because that's what god is, love, positvity.  Forget your preconceived notions that god is solely one magical humanoid being, god is all.

Please explain how everything is everything is nonsense.  Saying everything is not everything seems like complete nonsense to me.

Are you kidding?  Everything has to do with perspective.  One person can say one thing and someone else might interpret it totally different, it's all perspective.
I am also communicating mathematics through logic of true and false statements.  Mathematics, nor science, does not disprove god.  You may even find they support it.
Keep in mind atheism is a religion.  As much as you'd love to think you have no beliefs, everyone does, subconsciously or not.

What you fail to realize is while that computer is actually there, so is everything else fathomable to the mind.  Everything exists everywhere.  This is why people that have had egodeath or near death experiences have encountered the white light.  Your brain is like a radio tuned to one station, imagine the frequency opened up to every station possible, you would have pure noise.

You don't seem to know the difference between a religion and spirituality.  A religion is a set of beliefs that have to do with the creation and existence of the universe.  Atheism is a religion.

Spirituality is when you look for the answers by yourself, within yourself.  Religions are based off the spirituality that a few experience and translated into words as a guide for others to find their nature of the universe, they are not law.  Just like science.  The universe has no bounds, the universe has no law.  You are limited by the walls you build yourself, you are limited to your own beliefs.


Though this is not about winning, this is about uniting as the singular being we are.

I'll try to sum up that nonsense you wrote (simply because your religious state of denial makes it useless to dissect and destroy every single one of your flawed pseudo-arguments) :

You actually think that everything is revolving around believes and you actually have not even a concept of the difference between knowledge, probabilities and believe.
You actually believe everything the human mind can fathom - exists.

[Yoda]Terribly mistaken you are, young padavan[/Yoda]

You believe - I know. That's the difference. Hughe difference. A difference which implications your mind will predictably fail to grasp.
Considering what you wrote about your "knowledge and wisdom", if you weren't such a sad example of a mentally incabable homo sapiens, it could actually be funny.

“You must unlearn what you have learned.” - Yoda

You must remember I used to be an atheist just like and you and share a viewpoint just like yours.  I stumbled upon hidden knowledge within myself and I'm sharing it with you.  You can doubt it or attack me if you wish, but you can never render my ideas false.

If the universe is infinite, please explain to me how something can not exist.  I've been asking this question throughout this thread.

Whatever you "found within yourself" is not "hidden knowledge". Definitely something you couldn't handle, so much we can safely assume.

The statement "you can never render my ideas false" gives you away, as ideas can always be false. They're just ideas and essentially 0 cent a dozen.

btw, who told you the Universe was infinite? That's what people thought some 20 years ago. We don't know yet, but there are some interesting mathematical models pending scientific verification.
Even if the universe was infinite, who is telling you there is any atomic mass outside... say 20 Billion lightyears from us? Maybe there isn't even a single photon out there, or the temperature is absolute 0 deg Kelvin (indicating the compete halt of time/4th dimension as we know it).

This answers your question. That's how easy something can not exist (even time).

PS.

I'm not an atheist. I belong to no group related to any type of religion or religous thinking/believes, so much I must insist upon despite some natural similarities.
And no, you weren't sharing a viewpoint just like me, because you (based on your line of argumentation) always lacked the entire education, analytical logic, critical thinking and common sense I have.
Most importantly, you simply lacked the mental stability to withstand whatever event occured to you. When a singular event can change your entire viewpoint, then your viewpoint hasn't been the most accurate all along, to say the least.

I'm pretty sure you are atheist. If an inability to believe magic superstition is atheism, then I'd have to say you're atheist and more generally anti-irrationalist. Or maybe just rationalist.

You are attacking me and not the words I say.  The statements I make are positive, true statements.  You can see this simply by looking at the polarity of each word.

As I contemplated death as a kid, I also contemplated the existence of our universe.  One night I had the seemingly frightening realization that if we live in a box, or a bubble, then what is outside of that box?

You should also recognize that we are not limited to this dimension.  Astral travel and out of body experiences are both occurrences that involve separating consciousness from the physical hold of your body and can be practiced by anyone who truly puts their mind to work - or more accurately, at ease.  Dreams are an example of our multidimensional nature.  Thoughts are alternate realities we connect to, and while we are unable to connect to them fully, there is no reason to think a rapid evolution of understanding within the mind could not occur, making dreams become as real as life itself.

The fact that you can think of something proves it's existence, no matter how limited you may believe it's existence is, at the very least it's a concept that can be construed and comprehended, which is something.

Again, your words demonstrate negativity.  If a single event can change someone's viewpoint to the point they can let go of negative thought patterns, they are truly humble and there is only wisdom to be gained.  When one experiences egodeath and not only see's complete white light, but feels infinite amounts of peace, it will change their life and perspective.  You may always revert to your old ways when confronted by the truth, or you can adapt, evolve, and grow as a being.

I'm not even going further today...
The statements are mostly utter and complete BS. I can see this simply by looking at all the logical errors, contradictions, countless flaws and general gibberish you put there.

Seriously, your "believer nut" writings are no different from the mumblings of a severely suffering drug addict in his final, untreatable delirious end stadium. Both make no sense because both have lost all connection to reality.
If you consider yourself "evolved" - oh boy, did you get "evolution" wrong. Seriously - wrong way. Severely degenerated is what you present yourself like.

PS.
Don't bother answering since as of today, I'm running out of mood to discuss anything with mentally challenged drug addicts or alike (whatever reason their complete mental failure was, none of my business).

PPS.
A bit methaphorical but fitting well.
These Videos are basically like your world and in this world, everything makes sense to you.
Cows Cows Cows (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FavUpD_IjVY)
Chimpnology (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBBvXth-O_g)

...just don't wonder too much why it doesn't make sense to others, you wouldn't understand.

Alright. Let's say I was never born. In that case, did NixZiZ ever exist? NO!

You can think about the said NixZiZ, but at that point, the person is a concept, not an actual physical object.

Sort of like a character in a book.

I'm going to answer just to point out that your entire reply consisted of attacks and completely avoided any meaningful conversation.


Why would you have not existed?  There are currently infinite other NixZiZs at this very moment and from thereon.  Just because we can't remember our experiences before this life doesn't mean they don't exist.

Just lay off the drugs dank, go to a group and sober up please.

Get well soon

I see the basic difference between us now!

I start with "what is there evidence for?" and then follow where the evidence leads.

You, on the other hand, start with "what can I imagine?" and then follow where your imagination leads you.

It's a small difference, but I think all will agree that it's a vital one.

Excellent exposition comrade.

I too started with what is there evidence for.  Evidence directed me down this path, so I followed.

With strong atheists, and with those who wish to push atheism as an ideology.
And no, this is not based on any evidence, proof, or anything else. It's a faith-based call....

You've missed the first part of your sentence there. Can you go back and edit to to make sense?

Dank is a crazy-person.  The sad thing about this thread is that:

a) He purports to be a student of logic and reason
b) People keep taking him up on his invitation to argue

All you have to do is read the many pages in the thread to see that Dank is arguing from his own Willie-Wonka worldview---not at all interested in dividing fact from fiction or even simply keeping track of what is known and what is imagined.  Comeon y'all, leave Dank alone to write another love song, don't go to his philosophy class, it just doesn't make any sense.

Yet your post consisted of little more than your narrow perception attacking something you don't understand.

So I have still contributed more meaningful content in this thread.

So does this mean you'll start meaningful contributions?

The answer to your own existence lies within this thread.  Is that meaningful to you?

Really? I thought we had already concluded it was the ramblings of a schizophrenic drug addict?

Only in your perception.  Others would conclude it was the ramblings of god, truth.

Converse my words, not what you don't know.

Your comma use is confusing me again. Do you mean "the ramblings of god-truth", or "the ramblings of god and the ramblings of truth"? Because neither of them make much sense to me.

I seem to make sense of your phrasing okay.

I'm using them interchangeably.  God and truth are one.  God is positivity, ego is negativity.  Every wave has a crest and a trough.  Everything is some form of wave, energy.

If "truth" is an anthropomorphic personification of truth, shouldn't it be "Truth"? i.e. "the ramblings of God and the ramblings of Truth".

If you noticed a few posts ago, I don't feel the need to capitalize god.  I feel that it's somewhat egotistical as it's simply a concept for unity.

and "truth"/"Truth"?

Language is primarily about communication. If you use an ideolect that seems crafted to mislead, don't be surprised when people misunderstand you.

Idiolect crafted to mislead?  I really see no difference from truth or Truth, for truth is truth.

Dank, get off the internet and go start your cult please.

Dank, don't listen to him. If your threads didn't exist, what else would I do when I'm bored?

But if it didn't exist, would it really not exist?! Don't think ego, think soul!

 ::)

Exactly. If you can imagine dank's posts here on the forum, then they already exist. Frankly, dank doesn't ever even need to post here any more.

+1

Guess you were talking to me.  Erm, I provided quite a serious dissection of your ramblings a few pages ago.  Since then I've learned that you respond to meaningful inquiry and clarification by tossing out yet more meaningless drivel.  So now I feel very unmotivated to reason with a person who has shown himself to be thoroughly unreasonable.  You feel me on that?

you can't prove atheism doesn't exist.

True. After all, if anyone can imagine Atheism, then it must exist according to dank's own "logic" (which I think we can all safely assume is a far stretched use of that word in this context).
So in a sense, his irrational statements even directly contradict his own thread title by now o.0


User : dank
http://www.falconfly.de/temp/zomb.gif
Achievement unlocked : no-brainer
persistently demonstrate complete lack of logic, reason, common sense or any sign of intelligence ::)

I addressed this in the first post.  "you may perceive atheism to exist, though the basis of atheism itself does not exist."

The point of this thread was to show how atheism is a fallacious belief system because it is based off negatives, or false beliefs.  I cannot help if you chose to believe in negative constraints to your reality.

I'm pretty sure atheism is not a belief in a negative god.

I can pretty damn well imagine an entire universe where no gods exist at all, so Atheism does exist.

Replace the word god with universe and say that statement again.

I'm pretty sure this should be in line with dank's view of the universe:

I can imagine a universe where atheism exists, so atheism exists.

Edit: For dessert I can also imagine a universe where imagination doesn't exist.

I can also imagine a universe where the universe doesn't exist. So no one exists.

If you are perceiving, or imagining, the universe not existing, how can you perceive it at all?  If you are perceiving it, then something clearly exists in that picture.

Do you see how that statement is illogical?  The universe exists for the universe is everything.  To say everything is nothing or the universe doesn't exist is a complete fallacy.

Damn, dank stumbled across the primary Cartesian observation.  He's right for once.  Dank imagines therefore he exists!
OK, now he's back to nonesense...I enjoyed the moment of clarity while it lasted.

Atheism is knowing but not acknowledging there is a god, therefore it defeats the purpose of having an atheist in the first place.

Bullsheeee-it.

Atheism is not having a reason to believe there is a God. Prove God's existence to me and maybe then I'll be religious. Just like I won't believe in Santa Claus until you provide some conclusive proof.

"asanta is knowing but not acknowledging there is a Santa, therefore it defeats the purpose of having an asanta in the first place."

Still sound ok?

To further add to the Santa analogy.

I woke up with presents under the tree, and I have been told by the people I trust and through ritual yearly discussions that it was in fact a fat man in a suit that came through the chimney.

Therefore, I refuse to apply logic and sense, and will take the minuscule evidence (that presents exist) and use it to validate ludicrous claims that have been drilled into me throughout my early childhood, instead of using a more reasoned application of logic and sense (that comes with brain development) and find the most compelling and realistic theory.

The only real difference between the God/Jesus and Santa stories is all children eventually let go of the Santa story.

Just because Santa doesn't exist on this earth doesn't mean he doesn't exist.  We live in an infinite universe with infinite dimensions.

Easy. I imagined a black nothingness that is so black you can't even see it.


How does something that exist in another dimension in any way relevant to things that exist in ours? And what proof of infinite universes to you have? At most it's a speculative theory.

Refer to the first post.  You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.

We are multidimensional beings.  All thoughts you connect to are different dimensions that you channel, so it's very relevant.  In fact we are constantly shifting dimensions at every waking moment, whether you're aware of it or not.  How great each dimensional leap you make is is up to you.

Proof of an infinite universe?  Look around, how can the universe not be infinite?  Even if we live in a bubble, there will still be something outside that bubble, forever and ever.  Space aside, if you are able to tune your mind to different frequencies, you would see there are infinite dimensions right where you sit.  Everything exists everywhere.

Incorrect. Anyone who has received a sufficiently damaging brain trauma will be unable to perceive anything.

But... I can. I can quite literally make myself percieve nothing. Does that mean that nothing exists?

...and you know this from first hand experience?

You're not making yourself perceive nothing, you're making yourself perceive a conceptualization of nothing.  Again, how could you perceive nothing if you are there perceiving it?

Personally, no. But if you remove someone's brain from the brainstem up, I guarantee they will be able to perceive nothing. They will have no perceptual organ left.

Your brain is but a tool that connects your true self (consciousness) to the world.

I turn off, or rather actively ignore, all my senses, and stop myself from thinking about anything at all. Completely blank mind. So, yes, I am perceiving nothing, meaning there is nothing in the universe.

It looks like this is going nowhere...

Extreme -
Atheist - There is no such thing as god. You can prove it to me be beyond a reasonable doubt; I will refuse to acknowledge your proof and I would rather kill you than believe in god.

* Everything in between

Middle -
Agnostic - I was born an inquisitive being; I learn things using a scientific process. I would believe in god if you could prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that god existed; likewise, I would accept that god might not exist. If I die and go to heaven; great. If I die and just cease to exist; then that's just how it is...

* Everything in between

Extreme -
Religious - God is absolutely real. I don't have to prove it because I believe it and I want to force you to believe it in order to "save your soul." I will die if I must in order to force you to believe in god.

From the perspective of existence the OP is correct; existence is eternal. However; only that which existed before the big bang is infinite. Eternity will eventually end and this eternal plane will no longer exist.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed from within our Universe. This indicates a lack of equilibrium and hints that an inverse of energy must exist for existence to be possible. Equilibrium is infinite until acted upon by an external force. Recent tests at the Hadron Particle Accelerator reveal that when an atomic particle is "smashed," the pieces can no longer exist and form a black hole. The creation of a black hole at such low energies is indicative of an alternate plane containing the inverse of energy and mass. Black holes are the equilibrium of energy.

http://www.livescience.com/27811-creating-mini-black-holes.html (http://www.livescience.com/27811-creating-mini-black-holes.html)

http://www.livescience.com/27888-newfound-particle-is-higgs.html (http://www.livescience.com/27888-newfound-particle-is-higgs.html)

If you are perceiving nothing, no perceiving can take place.  What you are perceiving is nothingness.

Even if you're meditating as you say, which I have practiced letting go of my senses, you're still perceiving everything rather than nothing.  You still hear your heart beat, your breath, see the colors in your eyes.  You are just becoming one with it all, transcending beyond the physical realm of what we perceive something to be and into a state of unity with the surrounding energies.  Absorbing and merging with the very noise of the universe, if you will.

You should try astral projection if you really are practicing letting go as you say.

And it does! Even before the hadron Collider experiments, we figured out that there are equal parts matter and antimatter in our universe. You put everything together, and it will all cancel each other out. Hadron Collider experiments substantiated that by showing that mini big bangs happen on a quantum level, which also have both matter and antimatter.

There is as much proof that an non-physical spirit exists as a god-like being exists.

Yes, I am "perceiving" nothingness, which means the universe is nothing. When I do that, I don't hear anything, see anything, or feel anything. No colors, no sounds, not even pitch black emptiness. I just turn off my mind, and get nothing from my outer senses, and no thoughts in my mind. I just can't do it for very long.

You clearly have never had an OBE (outer body experience).

Rassah, if you want to believe the universe is nothing, that's fine.  From my experience there is much more peace to be felt by believing in something rather than nothing.

Regarding perceiving nothing, if you were to somehow perceive nothing, you would be unaware you perceived nothing, thus, it would never have happened, for, for you to perceive nothing, your perception would have to cease completely and you would have no recollection of perceiving nothing.  I sorta have this feeling that you're just pulling strings to defend your perspective, but I'll take your word.

No such thing as an OOBE (that's actually "out of body experience"). No one that has reported such an experience has ever been able to show knowledge of something that couldn't be known another way. Therefore, the OOBE is no different to imagining something. It's not proof that you can experience something without a brain.

If you think you can show knowledge through an OOBE of something that would have been unknown, you can earn yourself an easy million dollars.

That's the new question...

There must be equal parts of matter and antimatter; this is true. However, the absence of observable antimatter within our Universe has lead to the theory of multiple Universes. The key that I'm referring to is not the creation of black holes in small particles; it's the creation of a black hole with an energy density 1 quadrillion times less than was originally thought to be possible based on General Relativity. It's just very interesting...

How are you going to tell me there's no such thing when I have literally gone to other dimensions through astral travel?

Life is a dream created by your imagination.  Don't get fooled by how real it seems, sure it's real, but it's also an illusion created by our consciousness.  Everything is energy, light waves, sound waves etc., you mind manifests it to be as it is.  And you control your mind as much as you believe.

I do not doubt that you have imagined something of the sort. But there's nothing to indicate that you are experiencing anything other than a fevered imagining.

Otherwise, feel free to astral travel over to my place. I just wrote a message just for you and put it on the fridge. Report it back here and I'll admit an OOBE might be valid.

And I can say the exact same thing about life.

Feel free to astral travel over to my place. I just wrote a message just for you and put it on the fridge. Report it back here and I'll admit an OOBE might be valid.

10 coins if you get it right.

Your atheist definition is wrong many levels, firstly nobody has proven any religion beyond a responsible doubt. The very definition of faith is belief without evidence. If you wish to use the legal term of beyond reasonable doubt, you will require a great deal of irrefutable evidence, which religion provides none. Religion doesn't even come close to the balance of probabilities threshold.

Atheism merely means not convinced. The extreme version would be, extremely not convinced.

Your definition may be more suited to an anti-theist. Somebody that "KNOWS" there is no God

Its bad to see OP banned.BTW I liked this discussion and I support religion so does over 95% of my fellow humans.I'm muslim BTW.

Why do you think dank has been banned?

Congratulations on supporting religion.

This thread was not started as a religion support thread, it was a put down for atheism thread.

People have had evidence through supernatural encounters, I wouldn't have believed in god to the extent I do if I had not experience something impossible.

Wouldn't agnostic mean you're not convinced?  The root of atheism (A) signifies a negative, that it is the same as anti-theism.


Still here bro. :)


It was neither, it was a thread to push those who read it to become conscious of their ego (negative side) and let go of it to think and live using their soul (positive side) more.  This thread was more intended to point out the fallacious nature of negatives, for negatives create false statements.

My goal is not to put anyone down, rather to lift everyone up.

No, the difference between Atheism and Agnostic is not your concern. It is a difference in interpretation of the question, not the outcome of answer.

Atheists think they are not convinced, Agnostics think the question is unanswerable (therefore are not convinced) and Anti-theists adamantly think there is no God as narcasistically and arrogantly as you think there is a god.

So any argument pertaining to the fact that Atheists are telling you that you are 'wrong' or that there 'is no god' is not exactly what Atheism is about. Sure I get frustrated when you knuckle draggers try to ruin the education system with your lack of evidence based drivel designed to dumb the gene pool. I might say you are a total fuck tard from time to time, and I might outright say that you are just wrong. The truth is, I am just not convinced, because nothing you say it in any way shape or form at the slightest compelling.

You are in fact, the most uninteresting, and uncompelling human being that I have had the dishonor of contacting.

True.. most of people believe in what they need ir see(hear smell and so on) if you need someone to tell your secrest you go to priest.. well kinda same as talking to god :D you can believe or no.. i dont rly give a shit :D

The difference between the three doesn't really matter here.  What I'm conveying is proof through simple logic that god exists.

Nothing is nothing, therefor, everything is everything.  Can we agree on that?

Take the word therefore out of it.

Nothing is nothing
Everything is everything
Speaking shit is speaking shit

Red is red therefore
A fridge is a fridge

The word therefore creates some sort of reliance on the previous nonsense  statement like a fridge couldn't be a fridge if the color red did not exist. While both statements on there own are obviously true, connected, they just make the person speaking them sound like a brain cripple.

Well, I've been trying to get you all to understand that statement for 14 pages and so I thought I'd mix it up with a therefor.

Now that we came to an agreement that everything is everything, I ask, you are part of everything, right?

You're mixing up words and meanings again.

The letters in the word "everything" are equal to the letters in the word "everything", just like the book I am holding is equal to the book I am holding. You could even stretch a point and say that the meaning of everything is equal to the meaning of everything.

However, what you can't do is say that the categories referenced by the word "everything" are equal to all the other categories referenced by the word "everything". That would be like saying language is language and then expecting everyone to understand swahili.

I agree with organ regarding meanings, but for the sake of the forum I think I'm going to bite the bullet and answer danks questions the way he wants, after all he has said himself 14 pages have gone by without him being able to set off his scripted nonsense bomb.

Ahem.

Yes dank I am part of everything.

Noting the prefix uni (one) and the definition "totality of existence," can we also agree that the universe means everything?

Not a definition; more of a range from one extreme to the other with Atheist being on one end and highly religious on the opposite.

<-----Atheist--------------------------Agnostic--------------------------Religious----->

There's no level that I'm wrong on. It's not hard to find references to support the extreme polar opposites that I'm describing. Heinous crimes have been committed in the name of every religion except Agnosticism, and that's just because it can't even be described as a conventional religion.

Your definition of Atheism is different from mine, and conflicts with my definition of Agnosticism.

Atheism is a belief; it establishes a single absolute conclusion to the same question.

Agnosticism is not a belief; There is no conclusion drawn because of a lack of supporting evidence. When god can be proven or dis-proven mathematically or personally then a decision will be made.

Other religions are beliefs; drawing absolute conclusions without verifiable explanations.

Arguable, some may interpret the universe as more a container.

Such as, "everything in the universe" as opposed to "the universe is everything".

For the purpose of this exercise, I'll agree with you

The difference between atheism and agnosticism is artificial and of recent origin.

Most people who are not religious now, are not religious for the same reason: There is no proof that a god is required for the universe to exist.

Any reasoning person, when shown incontrovertible evidence of something, must come to accept that same something. It's how science works.

Show me simple, repeatable and verifiable proof that god exists, and I'll be a believer.

I can't agree. "Uni" does mean "one," and "totality of existence," but it doesn't mean "only." The Universe only means that which we have the ability to observe; or the contents within our Universe. The content within other Universes may not be observable to us outside of its interactions with the fields contained within our own.

With the verification of the Higgs Boson particle; we now know that our Universe has a finite lifespan. As time reaches infinity the Universe will no longer be able to bond atoms together, and then when all the atoms have been broken down, the subatomic particles will fall apart. Everything that once existed will no longer exist in it's current observable state. The result will be a new big bang and a new Universe formed with new matter. Quantum tunneling will cause propagation at various central points all moving relatively together. Time will not exist as it's a non-linear function with no observers moving at un-relative speeds.

The matter within the Universe will become mass-less; the energy is converted to velocity (galaxies are speeding up) and the physical laws of our universe will become null. Without the interaction of the Higgs Field, all atoms will burst into the subatomic particles that compose them.

I wouldn't consider the difference between Atheism and Agnosticism artificial.

It's the difference between "I don't believe in God" and "I don't know if God exists, or in what manner or form God may or may not exist."

I view it as the difference between choosing an answer and searching for an answer... This isn't a time sensitive question where the lack of an answer counts as a "no."

Or, it's the difference between "I don't believe in God because I've seen no evidence a god exists" or "I don't know if God exists, or in what manner or form God may or may not exist because I've seen no evidence a god exists".

It's no good trying to define a way of thinking without defining its basis. Saying "Atheists don't believe in god" without referring to why they don't believe in god provides no insight into what atheism really is.

In the example I gave above atheism == agnosticism. You'll be able to give an example where  atheism != agnosticism. This is why I call the distinction artificial, since adding a reason for the statement changes the meaning of the statement.

I feel like this is one of those awkward debates where both of us actually agree on the topic at hand, yet we both use clever wording which forms a distinction between our points that allows the debate to actually continue...

I'll continue our little agreement/debate:

"I don't believe in God because I've seen no evidence a god exists" is along the same lines as making the assumption that X + 40 = 42. Unless you know the value of X you shouldn't consider your answer to be correct.

"I don't know if God exists, or in what manner or form God may or may not exist because I've seen no evidence a god exists" is comparable to saying X + 40 = Y. You don't know the answer so you leave it as a variable.

(X + 40 = 42) != (X + 40 = Y)

Atheism is a belief based on a lack of evidence and parallels religious belief.

No, I disagree.

"I don't believe in pink unicorns because I've seen no evidence pink unicorns exist"

Is this also a belief based on a lack of evidence and which parallels religious belief?

By the nature of your disagreement you've actually complimented my argument...

Have you observed all observable life within the Universe? Because we don't have pink Unicorns on Earth doesn't mean they don't exist. It simply means that we have never observed of a pink Unicorn on Earth.

Statistically, with the amount of time, energy, and matter available in the Universe; it's highly unlikely that a pink Unicorn has never existed anywhere within the Universe. In fact, it's plausible because you can envision what a pink Unicorn might actually look like should one exist.

In that case, how do you figure out what things exist and what don't? What level of proof do you need? Do you often carry a pink unicorn poop scoop just in case?

My point was that the statement is "pink unicorns exist" unable to be falsified unless a pink unicorn is detected. If a statement is unfalsifiable, then arguing its merits is pointless.

Unless you're religious, in which case unprovable somethings are the basis for an enjoyable afternoon's debate.

The answer is simple; until you know everything, never discount the probability of something. That doesn't mean you should carry around a pink Unicorn poop scoop; unless of course you have a reason to suspect that you might find a good use for it.

The Higgs Boson particle was theorized in 1964 but humanity lacked the technology to verify it's existence. It took scientists 49 years to develop the knowledge base that allowed for the verification of this particle. The existence of this particle was therefore un-falsifiable from the time is was theorized until the time when the technology was developed that allowed it to be verified and observed.

My point is; when dealing with questions that we can't know the answers to we shouldn't answer them incorrectly just because un-answered questions naturally bother us.

That's fine when a probability is quantifiable, as in your higgs boson example. What is the probability of the existence of god?

 

idk what i just read but... okay then

The probability only became quantifiable once a separate problem was solved; allowing scientists to draw up a new question using a better understanding of the old question.

until we can account for all of the variables surrounding the creation of our Universe and the events that took place upon the creation of our Universe the probability can never be anything more or less than 50/50.

For as long as there is a single "wild card" the probability will be un-quantifiable and will revert to basic odds that the existence of God will be either true or false.

Hypothetically, even if you have a probability of 99.99999% that God does not exist and yet you also have a single variable with an unknown magnitude then you still can't answer the question certainly as the entire equation is still off-balance.

The probability that I personally assign to God existing in some manner or another is much greater than pink Unicorns existing. Still, un-quantifiable...

Which is it, p = 0.5 or p = NA ?

There's a difference between ones personal inclination towards a subject expressed as a ratio or probability to illustrate an un-quantifiable thought and a real scientific probability which can be expressed and verified.

It's an oxymoron. I obviously wasn't making a claim to know the probability of either; I thought the context of the statement was clear. I chose the best way to compare the two unknown probabilities in a manner consistent with our previous conversation...

I was providing you with my personal opinion as to the outcome of the question in the form of a comparison.

I can't answer your question where p=probability because I don't know all of the conditions or variables. I can tell you that the raw probability of a yes or no statement is 50/50 as there's no third conclusion to the question.

The probability is a priori unknowable. Until someone can make some falsifiable hypothesis about god that is not made false by the evidence, the question of god is uninteresting - unless you're religious, of course.

Well the question about god may be uninteresting but I think it's the wrong question to ask at this time, given how little we know... I'm Agnostic.

I think a few more interesting questions would be,

- Do the laws of the Universe allow God to exist?

- If the laws of the Universe do allow God to exist, then what can God do that we cannot do and by what process?

- If God existed would God be trans-dimensional? Would God be subject to the laws regarding time?

- If God exists within our Universe, what then will happen as our Universe unravels and eventually ceases to exist?

- Do living things have souls?

- Is the subconscious brain in some manner connected to other living things? Is it further connected to God?

- Is life the birth of a new soul or the continuance of a timeless one? Both? What decides?

Just a few questions...

But it's 4:00 AM here and I'm done for now.

Good debate!

I think a more relevant question is "Why do you think there needs to be a god to investigate?". Belief in gods have added nothing to our knowledge of the universe; why should that change?

Thomas Aquinas says it best when he presents a point of view against which he is arguing:

"Further, it is superfluous to suppose that what can be accounted for by a few principles has been produced by many. But it seems that everything we see in the world can be accounted for by other principles, supposing God did not exist. For all natural things can be reduced to one principle which is nature; and all voluntary things can be reduced to one principle which is human reason, or will. Therefore there is no need to suppose God's existence."

I completely agree with this and in some ways it summarises my views. What point is there of a god if that god has no measurable effect?

BTW, Aquinas' answer to this is wrong since it assumes nature is directed than otherwise, when it's clear now that nature is not directed and does not need a god in order to exist.

Sleep well, bud.

Regarding our differing of 'definition'. This is the most accurate definitions. I am not debating your reasoning, I do not appreciate an 'anti-theist' as they are CERTAIN and will insult somebody else for their views. Just like a religious person is CERTAIN and in the past, collectives have killed others for their views.

-------
antitheist
Web definitions
Antitheism is active opposition to theism. The term has had a range of applications; in secular contexts, it typically refers to direct opposition to organized religion or to the belief in any deity, while in a theistic context, it sometimes refers to opposition to a specific god or gods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitheist
-------
atheism
ˈeɪθɪɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
noun: atheism
1.
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
synonyms:   non-belief, non-theism, disbelief, unbelief, scepticism, doubt, agnosticism, irreligion, godlessness, ungodliness, profaneness, impiety, heresy, apostasy, paganism, heathenism, freethinking, nihilism More
antonyms:   belief, faith
Origin

late 16th cent.: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos, from a- ‘without’ + theos ‘god’.
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agnostic
agˈnɒstɪk/
noun
1.
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.
synonyms:   sceptic, doubter, questioner, doubting Thomas, challenger, scoffer, cynic; More
antonyms:   believer, theist
adjective
adjective: agnostic
1.
relating to agnostics or agnosticism.
synonyms:   sceptical, doubting, questioning, unsure, cynical, unbelieving, disbelieving, non-believing, faithless, irreligious; More
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theism
ˈθiːɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
1.
belief in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe.
"there are many different forms of theism"
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Just type into google, Atheist definition.

Then you will realise, an atheist is merely not convinced. It is an antitheist that wants to tell another they are wrong. You can only tell someone they are wrong if you know what is right. Atheists don't know what the answer is, we humble in not knowing, we are (well some don't care) in the pursuit of that answer and we don't have a desire to fill in the gaps with dogma and superstition that we see no evidence backing it.

This guy only smokes the dankest reefer. Whatever that means and then posts.


In your reply to me you stated that I am the one that is try to prove a negative.


You cannot simply take anything as a given. You take the existence of your deity as a given.

You can watch this, and if you understand it, we can talk about logic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9BfsHsVGNg

i recommend the wikipedia article on atheism for some basic infos for you

Ah, It is this thread again, yeah probably no one here can prove anything so move on, nothing to see here.

PS Why the only option to see if GOD exists is to die?

Because otherwise the clergymen would have to deal with a whole lot of dissatisfied customers wanting their money back ;)

Fuck that's depressing. Might throw a wrench into my future plans of getting a rickety old cargo hauler space ship and taking up a life of space piracy :(

Do you know of any sources to your claim? Not disputing, just want to read up some more.

That's not what unfalsifiable means (and I suspect you know that). Even if we had no means or tools for getting for the Higgs Boson at the time, we knew what kind of tests could be done to disprove, or falsify it. Regardless of technological ability, everything in science can be proven wrong with the discovery of something that contradicts established theory. God is unfalsifiable, because there is nothing that we can discover that will disprove god. He could always be just out of reach, just like pink unicorns.


None of those questions s are interesting, BTW, since as of yet, none of them have any bearing on our lives or reality. One might as well ask "Do fairies shit in Avalon?"

There *are* ways to estimate the probability of an event whos actual probabililty is not known.  One common such method is maximum likelihood.  In this case, I've never seen any God observations, so p=0 even with MLE. :)

This thread is so much more serious now that dank has given up.  I was just coming here for the lolz and now you guys are all thinking your brains off about this.

The maximum likelihood estimator for the existence of god? This is awesome - please share this estimator!

Can you tell us hot to it pls? Im not good with estimating unknown things...:(

 "Non existence does not exist.  To say non existence exists is a fallacy..." I'm confused!

How does such a pointless OP get 15 pages of replies?

Come on, obviously atheism exists...

Simply untrue.

Check with any dictionary, and you'll discover that "Atheism" does indeed mean that you don't believe God exists... as Webster's puts it:

a :  a disbelief in the existence of deity
b :  the doctrine that there is no deity

I disagree, however, that there's anything wrong with believing in the non-existence of something. (Not that I'm an Atheist, mind you!)

What's the difference between "I don't believe that god exists" and "a disbelief in the existence of a deity?"

clause vs noun phrase

Took a break from this thread.

Okay then.  Let's assign two words for the concepts of negative and positive, those being ego and soul respectively.  Soul is interchangeable with god.  Any other words you prefer will do, nothing and everything.

So since the universe is everything, totality of existence, you are a piece of the universe.  You are a piece of everything, you are a piece of god.

Furthermore, every human has negative and positive feelings derived from their own mind, fear and love.  We each have an ego and soul, yes?  Negative and positive side?

Does this make sense?

just_me - the word for the people like you is "fool".   :-\

"Christos" is a Greek work, if memory doesn't fail, for "suffering". So indeed an early follower of Yeshua, assuming Yeshua ever existed that is, wouldn't be calling himself "Christian" as such word wasn't yet attached to him.

For those that are so worried about trying to 'prove a negative' consider that it is quite common to do so.  One of the classic techniques is to remove the negation and the show that that assertion leads to absurdity.  Consider the famous proof that the cardinality of the set of prime numbers is not finite.  The statement to be proved contains a negation:

1) The cardinality of the set of prime numbers is *not* finite.

The technique for the famous proof removes the negation from (1) and shows that (2) leads to absurdity:

2) The cardinality of the set of prime numbers is finite.
3) Therefore, there is a largest prime number, call it _p_
4) Consider a new number, _q_, which is the product of all the primes (including _p_) + 1
5) _q_ is obviously larger than _p_ and by hypothesis must be composite (not prime)
6) The factorization of _q_ cannot include any known prime therefore either _q_ is prime or the factorization of _q_ includes a prime larger than _p_.  In either case, _p_ is not the largest prime number.
QED

Perhaps I made a mistake recreating the proof, but reductio ad absurdam is a standard logical technique which uses the negation of a statement to proof the assertion.  Because of the law of universal negatives, this is sound.  Note that P = not(not(P)) for propositional negation.

Oooh, let me help you understand ... My 1-million bitcoin wallet is "non-existent". But since non-existence is not a possibility, then my 1-million bitcoin wallet actually does exist. ... Now ... I just have to remember where I put it.