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Ledger is planning to release their new hardware wallet device called Ledger Nano S Plus in early 2022, and it will have some improvements compared to regular Ledger Nano S wallet.

What we know about Ledger Nano S Plus so far?

- Bigger memory to support more coins and apps.
- Bigger and clearer screen for better user experience.
- No Bluetooth connection.
- Two control buttons on top.
- USB-C connection.

What can we speculate about Nano S Plus?

- Added battery.
- Price between 59€ and 119€

https://i.ibb.co/S0Nr0sJ/imgf8f96095db42cde23bf178cf096b0e84.jpg
https://twitter.com/_pgauthier/status/1471137009272074245

That would be totally pointless without Bluetooth or a microSD card reader and re-designed software. They have already denied this guess (https://twitter.com/Ledger/status/1469271453199708163) on Twitter.

They've just mentioned a few minutes ago that "it'll have about the same storage as the Nano X (https://twitter.com/Ledger/status/1469296403432280067)", so it's slightly less than 1.8 Mb and despite really hating how they've been dealing with certain issues, a part of me wants to get one of these when it comes out ^{[assuming that it'd come with a reasonable price tag]}.

Judging by its feature, I have a feeling it'd be around €89 while also providing discounts to those who have purchased the Nano S lately.

I don't understand their business policy, because this move doesn't make sense to me at all - because currently X costs around 120 EUR, and S around 60 EUR, so this S plus will cost around 90 EUR - but wouldn't it be more logical to lower the price of X? They are developing a product that users allegedly want, and they already have one, the only problem is the price and the problem with the battery.

I wonder who would even think of buying an X if they don't need a BT and a battery - well, I would have bought this model if it had existed a few years ago - which means that they are deliberately sending X into history - real geniuses👎

Anything known about what security elements will be used?

Will it be the same Nano S with increased memory, or will the stuffing come from model X?

Idea for those trying to guess the price:
- Create a topic with rates and whoever guesses the price of a new S+ most accurately takes the bank.  ;)

Yes, they mentioned that as well here (https://www.ledger.com/blog/ledger-op3n-conference-product-launches-updates-our-next-milestones). It should be equipped with the ST33K1M5C secure element. According to this thread of Secure Elements in Hardware Wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5304483.0), Ledger used ST31H320 and ST33J2M0 in their other hardware wallets (Nano S and Nano X). From what I can see on that list, no other hardware wallet currently uses this particular model.

I saw they posted this on twitter but on image and videos they posted you can clearly see a battery symbol in upper right corner of the screen, so I don't know what's the purpose of that.

There is no information about that yet, but I suspect they will probably use the same secure element like in their current devices, that is ST31H320 or ST33J2M0.
We don't know device dimensions yet but they will use some stuff from old devices for sure, to reduce production cost.

This is their business model, similar like smartphones are doing, make old devices obsolete, stop updating and release new more expensive devices :)

They just used a display picture from Nano X for this presentation - miracle of photoshop ;).


This model is used by almost all companies nowadays. The business wants to receive an endless stream of customer money. That's interesting to me. If the Ledger stops supporting Nano S, how will the users react? As far as I can subjectively judge, Ledger may have sold millions of devices. Discontinued support can create a crowd of disgruntled users for a company. Ledger has not had a deficit of dissatisfaction in its address lately  ;). Wouldn't that create an excess of discontent?

The screenshot looks like it's similar to the Nano X screen.
In my opinion, the features of the Nano S plus are still below the Nano X with a different target market.

Not all users like hardware wallets that come with batteries.

https://i.ibb.co/9hfm7zs/58688681.png
https://shop.ledger.com/pages/ledger-nano-x

They have already released information about the secure element in one of their blog posts that highlighted everything that happened on the Ledger OP3N conference they just held. There is a link to the article in my previous post. For better visibility, let me quote the part where they mention the secure element:

https://www.ledger.com/blog/ledger-op3n-conference-product-launches-updates-our-next-milestones

It's lame if they actually showed image from Nano X with Nano S plus label, and that battery icon is what got me confused in the first place.

Hmm that is interesting information I missed, and I didn't expect they would change secure element, but it's from the same French manufacturer ST.
I will have to add that info in my topic for Secure Element tracking, what I noticed is that this new chip has 1.5 Mbytes of User Flash memory (Nano X has up to 2 Mbytes), and 64 Kbytes of User RAM (Nano X has 50 Kbytes of User RAM).
I can't find the exact price but it's possible that this chip is a bit cheaper than model ST33J2M0.

https://www.st.com/en/secure-mcus/st33k1m5c.html#overview

I doubt that price is going to close to €60. I predict it will cost €90-€100.
Haven't bought Nano X, not planning to buy Nano S Plus. Bluetooth - only place where I connect my Ledger is PC, so Bluetooth isn't needed for me. Pay more just to have, I think it's not worth.
Same memory as on Nano X is good thing. But now I don't significant reasons why people would buy Nano X instead of Nano Plus S. Battery - I doubt it's significant reason.
For me who keep just BTC in general, Nano S with it's tiny memory is enough.

Well, now it's general trend in business. Even things like fridge is now isn't made to work forever. Otherwise nobody wouldn't buy new ones. It's not something what I like, but it's difficult to blame them.

Your behavior doesn't fit in with the Ledger marketing strategies. Your device must be destroyed and you have to buy a new Nano S+.  :) 

But seriously, what will you do if one day the manufacturer stops releasing updates for your nano S? Are you going to risk using this hardware wallet for your savings or do you decide to buy a new one? It seems to me that it is time for users to prepare an action plan for such cases. 

I was thinking about it a few years ago so I decided it wouldn’t be bad to have a spare HW, then the Nano X with a 35% discount seemed like a good solution. Despite all the problems with the new devices, I have no objections to how the devices work - but given Ledger's very amateurish behavior with user data and the reactions after that, I wouldn't buy any HW from them anymore - as far as I'm concerned their reputation was ruined without the possibility of repair.

Fortunately, they are not the only company producing such devices - and as a last resort (and the safest) anyone can make airgapped devices and keep their private keys without trusting any company.

If Nano S support ended on Monday, that doesn't make the hardware wallets that so many of us have vulnerable from Tuesday. They can still be used just fine. You can always follow what is going on with the development, discovered bugs, and new vulnerabilities with their newer devices and make up your mind when it's time to find an alternative. Maybe a Trezor, a Coldcard, or maybe a Bitbox. I have never given any serious thoughts to an alternative HW because so far I didn't need to. 

I plan to do so, unless some important vulnerability is found.
And afterwards I will order a new HW or will just use a Tails stick as cold storage/offline signer if I don't get a good deal.

I think that the proper prep is to just make sure the seed is safe and it's the right one (for the expected addresses).

Yeah, I'm bad customer :/. I also don't change my phone every year when new model is released
That's good question. If Ledger will stop supporting Nano S, you still will be able to use. Same like you still can access funds on other obsolette Ledger wallets. But probably I just will get new hardware wallet and I'm not sure that it will be Ledger. Any way, I expect that Ledger will support Nano S for few years at least.

Ok guys, it's enough speculations about the looks of new Ledger Nano S Plus device.
This image was posted by Ledger CEO Pascal Gauthier and now we finally know how it looks in real life and how big the screen is compared older Nano S and Nano X.
We can see that two buttons are in similar position like on old nano S, but we still don't know what the price will be for this new device.

https://i.ibb.co/S0Nr0sJ/imgf8f96095db42cde23bf178cf096b0e84.jpg
https://twitter.com/_pgauthier/status/1471137009272074245

The following things caught my attention:

• Despite having a larger screen, looks like it's still not going to display the full address:
  
  • Nano X has "four" lines of text ^{[screenshots: #1 (https://miro.medium.com/max/700/1*4DiiGAJ_YDyAOySgx-VE5g.jpeg) and #2 (https://miro.medium.com/max/700/0*4AHXcuCv3Hyo181r.jpg)]}, but this one has only "three"!
    
    
• The screen they've used looks cheap ^{[the displayed text isn't that sharp]}!
  ^{- In other words, little to no improvement over the Nano S [apart from its size].}

Judging by its overall build quality, it has to be cheaper than what I initially thought it was going to be.

Screen does look cheap but that is nothing new and I wrote before that you can order new display for regular Nano S from China for just few dollars, I don't think that this display is much more expensive.
It appears like there is only 3 lines of text like you say, but maybe there will be more characters that can fit the whole address...so let's wait and see.
If nothing else, bigger memory and new usb type c connection is some improvement from old nano s model.

Exactly... The same goes for the noticeable gaps beside the left and right arrows ^{[those gaps almost don't exist on the Nano X, hence why it could fit more characters on each line]}.

If it's possible to replace its screen with one that supports a slightly higher resolution, then that might actually work ^{[without having to wait for the Ledger to make some adjustments on its firmware]}.

Judging by the image you've posted the other day, I counted 14 characters for the Nano S Plus, whereas on the Nano X is 18 characters.
^{- A reduced font size might do the trick as well.}

We still don't know how the Nano S Plus will display addresses on the screen. For example, if they got rid of the first line that says Address, like it does on the Nano X, they could fit the whole address in one go. The first line is unnecessary anyway and doesn't have to display the address part. It could also be displayed just for a few seconds and then switch to the actual address or you need to right-click to move from the address line. All in all, it's easily fixable. 

Little update:

While I was searching for new information on google, I stumbled upon two of its "official resellers (https://www.ledger.com/reseller)" from the Netherlands... Both of them are showing the price as €119,95 ^{[considering that the price of Nano S remained the same, I was hoping it'd be closer to that]} and the delivery date on the first week of April:

• BTCDirect (https://shop.btcdirect.eu/en-gb/products/ledger-nano-s-plus/) ^{[archived (http://web.archive.org/web/20220215133426/https://shop.btcdirect.eu/en-gb/products/ledger-nano-s-plus/)]}
• Cryptomaan (https://cryptomaan.nl/products/ledger-nano-s-plus/) ^{[archived (https://archive.fo/mKcwV#selection-439.0-463.88)]}

Nice find!
I was searching to find any information about release date but all I saw was some claims that new devices will be released soon or in several weeks, so your post is the first real clue for release date.
btw I don't know if anyone saw this, but everything ledger related is now filled with cringe music videos, and Paris Hilton advertising ledger devices :P
Nobody knows how much money they are spending for this crap but it must be a lot, they even brag about it on twitter...

Paris Hilton with her bling ledger:
https://twitter.com/bobbyhundreds/status/1492975295661363200

Saweetie - Closer music video with ledger... oh and notice first comment below this post about defective ledger device  ;D
https://twitter.com/Ledger/status/1493284636700643337

YG - Scared Money ft. J. Cole, Moneybagg Yo (obviously shilling ledger)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGJxTuYJP8o

I think that this propaganda tactics is sadly effective because they are still best selling hardware wallet in the world with millions of sold devices, despite all the problems they have and the fact they are closed source.
They are even tagging Lebron James on Twitter, so they are probably looking for new promoters...

It's probably nothing, just regular keychain strap ledger is sending in package for all their devices, so you can wear it with your house keys, if you are crazy enough to do that  :D
They don't care about customer sensitive information.

https://i.imgur.com/Ejxjcbz.jpg

Thank you... I got annoyed at how they were responding to inquiries, so I had to look for other sources and I got lucky :)

I'm a straight guy but this one looks amazing and it seems that they're trying to take credit for the "custom-made Diamond-adorned version that Greg Yuna (https://www.thehypemagazine.com/2022/02/saweetie-drops-video-for-coser-feat-h-e-r-and-diamond-ledger-crypto-wallet-by-greg-yuna/)" created ^{[a free ad maybe?]}:D
^{- For what it's worth, nothing beats the "18K Solid Gold Nano S design by Litecoin Foundation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZREU_0W9FU)".}

Thank you... Yes, I really wanted to get one as a collectible item, but I think I'll skip this one for now.

I think @dkbit98 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5376279.msg59269083#msg59269083) is right.

I didn't notice before that the two sites are identical. The only difference is that one is created for the British market, while the other one is for The Netherlands and possible Belgium.

They seem to be throwing a lot of money on marketing campaigns right now.
Two days ago they announced a campaign with Hublot, and it will be possible to purchase 50 limited-edition watches. A Nano X is also part of the deal. ::)

https://wwd.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Hublot_Big-Bang-Unico-Ledger_SM.KWBOX_.006.LDG22.01.jpg?crop=0px%2C590px%2C5442px%2C3045px&resize=910%2C511
Source: https://wwd.com/accessories-news/watches/hublot-limited-edition-big-bang-unico-crypto-ledger-wallet-1235077104/?fbclid=IwAR2poYNpzXhdQK4rge8CxFZT-jMm1Ktg_IUwJq6kc-EF5qI33RcTr00JWqM

Yeah I saw that shit, first Paris Hilton, cringe music videos, Lebron James and now Hublot watches ''special edition'', all of that has nothing to do with bitcoin and hardware wallets.
Meanwhile, their reddit channel is full complains like this example when brand new nono x devices go crazy when plugged in with usb cable...
Ledger support suggests draining the battery (bat-pandemic is very much alive) but it's obviously not working... watch the video below:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/su0cs9/faulty_brand_new_nanox_goes_crazy_when_plugged/

Here is one more ledger device having party time after being connected with cable into computer or phone:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/ssqv5k/strange_behavior_when_plugged_into_a_computer_or/

I can't believe they are advertising something that is full of problems like this, and checking their twitter profile page looks more like a page of some prostitute... no offence prostitutes.

Proof they care about sales and not customers.  Unfortunate that we do not have a battle tested Cryptocurrency hardware wallet producer like Trezor and Ledger to care about their clients as well.  This kind of marketing may be giving us a hint that Ledger's sales have dropped significantly against their competitors, they are advertising as a preparation for the new products or they are just getting greedy and care mostly about sales now.

What sucks is that even the new products they are releasing are a more expensive 'collectors' edition of what already exists or a new product that is supposed to be better than the others but is not really.  Some of their customers just want their malfunctioned Ledger to work properly, and they are advertising diamond limited edition versions of it.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

I just saw that Ledger started to open registration for new nono S plus device waiting list, but I would not suggest anyone to use their main email address or pre-order this device.
Obviously nothing changed regarding their licensing and they continue to be closed source, focused mostly on nft, and other shitcoins... not a word about Bitcoin on this page!
Device should have bigger screen and memory with up to 100 apps, but I am afraid it could inherit some of the weaknesses from older model X:
https://shop.ledger.com/pages/ledger-nano-s-plus

Do you think they will lose email address? We can do a little test: create a new mailing address and put it on their website. If phishing offers (or what threats do you expect?) come in, we will know who is to blame. But there is a nuance, it is not known how long this will happen.

I think their marketing department is to blame. They are trying to attract buyers with the help of hype topics. Of course, nft - mega hype of the past year.

I have some internal sources about Ledger Nano S Plus.
The retail price in Europe will be 119 Euros.
So, with increasing Ledger Nano X from 119 in 2021 to 149 euros.
Now this devices is coming for 119 Euros.
I am sure Ledger is going to make a great money with selling this device.
Remember that older brother is only 59 Euros!!!!
Additionally Ledger Nano S release date will be April 2022.
https://walletjoo.com/product/ledger-nano-s-plus/
https://ledgernano.net/product/ledger-nano-s-plus/

As much as I hate to say this, I have a feeling a lot of users will do the latter if Ledger offers such a thing in the near future ^{[especially if it comes with a good discount]}.

Too late (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5376279.msg59260560#msg59260560) ;)

I like this idea! Since I often use purpose-specific email addresses, I already noticed a few times that I get lots of spam on some and none on others, so it does really help identify where it comes from / who is leaking & selling email addresses. Would be interesting to check with Ledger.

That's way too much for what it offers. Set aside all of Ledger's history: who wants a 120€ closed-source wallet with USB connection and tiny screen? There are much better options like Trezor, BitBox (aside AOPP shit), and even $200 Passport will be a better deal than 120 for a Ledger.
For 60 bucks I'd say: in a pinch, maybe get the Ledger, keep a seed backup, and plan to replace it with something better in the near future. But double that.. for what? For a few measly MB of storage? Come on, it's 2022. We have terabytes of flash storage in laptops, phones, tablets, and they ask 120 bucks for 2MB & a few music videos?

---

Now I just got a random idea: collecting lists of how many wallets HW wallet companies have already discontinued and how long they're operating. It seems to me at first sight, that Ledger will be #1.

Ledger: Ledger HW.1, Ledger Nano, Ledger Unplugged (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010500620-Discontinued-products?docs=true), Ledger Blue , (soon? Ledger Nano X)
ColdCard: ColdCard mk1, ColdCard mk2, ColdCard mk3
Foundation: Passport v1
Cobo: Cobo Vault
BitBox: BitBox01
Trezor: -
Keystone: -

Holy cow, they really did discontinue a ton of products and some of these were expensive as hell.  It is like they keep creating something new with no new features added just to keep us spending on their crap.  But what the hell is going on with that price of the S Plus?  I feel like I am looking at a bad remaster of a game.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

Does anyone know when this model will be in the mark?

---

I see that how this brand ledger is hated here!!  ;D
Even more the product Ledger Nano S PLus!
But according to this vote on Reddit people prefer to buy it most.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/sclh51/ledger_nano_x_black_box_2022_vs_ledger_nano_x/
What do you think?
 

When they increased the price of Nano X to 149€, "they blamed supply shortages (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/rw8fjs/why_does_a_ledger_nano_x_now_cost_150/hrctsr9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)", so I expect them to also give the exact same "excuse" for the Nano S Plus.

That's strange! Your "alt account (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3449215)", seems to know a lot of details from his/her so-called "internal sources (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5376279.msg59322190#msg59322190)"!

I don't think they will lose anything, and I always use temporary alternative email addresses when I am registering for some testing like in this case.
Some of my old emails are receiving spam all the time, so for anything new I sign up I use new email address.

Is this the same source that told you about ledger store you ''found'' in Iran?  :D
I would not pay 119 euros for nono S plus because it's untested, closed source device and I bet it's going to have similar problems like terrible model X.
Double the price for a bit more memory and larger screen is not a good deal in my opinion.

I wouldn't buy it either. First because I couldn't care less about their DeFi and NFT support, and second because I don't need it to store my Bitcoin. The Nano S works just fine after many years. Yes, I know it's closed-source.

However, your argument that the Nano S Plus shouldn't be bought because it's untested can be used for any hardware wallet or any piece of equipment that is brand-new. It can't be tested before it's developed and released to the general public. So, I would like to expand on your thought process and say that you shouldn't buy any new hardware wallet by Ledger, Trezor, Passport, (insert company name), for at least a few months to a year to give those who know what they are doing enough time to test it and try to break it. Those who can do it themselves, even better.   

Honestly, it's not bad advice in general.
That's where I come in and mention open source code & code 'reuse' though: By Foundation forking off tried & tested ColdCard code, essentially large part of the Passport's codebase is already at least reasonably trustable to be secure.
This is a general concept: if there was more collaboration of HW wallet manufacturers and developers, it would be possible to create a 'master firmware' for hardware wallets that everyone, also new companies, could use & hit the ground running. Beneficial for (new) businesses and users.

If we can assume that Coldcard's code is secure enough and has been put under the microscope back and forth to look for vulnerabilities. I am not saying it hasn't, nor am I an expert in that department, but Coldcard is not even nearly as popular as Ledger and Trezor. I am sure that more security experts have looked at Trezor and Ledger, be it for the right or wrong reasons. Passport will surely add plenty of their own code and improvements in areas they didn't like with the Coldcard. Those new snippets will also need to be checked thoroughly. 

It's still business. And business is competition. Everyone wants to be on top and get the biggest piece of the pie. When it comes to money, the big fish will always go for the small fish. Reusing open-source code is a double-edged sword. You inherit the good, but you also inherit anything bad, assuming there is something bad. If a serious vulnerability gets found in Coldcard, and Passport uses the exact same code, users of both wallets would have problems until a fix is found.

Of course - it's not a safe bet or anything, just saying to take into consideration: 'old code' has always been seen more than 'new code' inherently.

In my experience, to build from an existing codebase, you have to read a lot of it and build an understanding gradually; only when you reach the point where you fully understand it, you can really start meaningfully modifying it. This thorough analysis of the entire code often reveals bugs and programming errors, further enforcing my point to get more people developing and auditing a similar codebase rather than each making their own.

Unless you spot and fix it, but yes, true. The question is though if you wouldn't have made the similar (or another - maybe many other?) programming mistakes when doing it all from scratch.

That's right: if you have one piece of software that everybody is running, you can hit many more users when you find a bug in it.
I believe this is the main counter-argument against my idea of a HW wallet firmware, but on the other hand, we're all running the exact same Bitcoin Core v22.0.... Just saying. Similarly, the Linux kernels of our nodes (and 99% of the internet infrastructure) are most probably all virtually identical. I'm not completely sure if that's good or bad honestly. ;D Recent example of security hole in widely used software: Log4j..

I have the right to say what I want and I have valid reasons for my claims based on experience with their previous models of this company, especially model X that is very similar with upcoming S plus model.
I also don't recommend buying upcoming Coldcard mk4 that is not open source, and I even said similar thing for other hardware wallets, so I don't need to repeat that every time.
This is Ledger topic so I am speaking about ledger devices, and rushing to buy brand new device from whatever brand is not some I would so myself until I see some reviews.

It's not a bad idea in theory but it just wouldn't work in real life.
People have different ideas and sometimes they can start working together but split latter down the road.
I heard that coldcard has only one active developer, so it's just one man who doesn't want to work with others.

True, but Bitcoin Core isn't the only open-source Bitcoin software wallet. It is the main full-node client, yes. But if a serious bug gets discovered in Core, the same vulnerability wouldn't be present in Electrum, for example. Or any other client that doesn't use that exact code. If we had one widely accepted code or a piece of it replicated across multiple clients, we would have exactly that. A longer list of possible targets and victims. 

Yeah, but do other full node programs exist? I don't think anything is widely used besides Bitcoin Core. A serious bug in Core would probably affect everyone, no matter if they use SPV clients or not - after all, those guys very much depend on full nodes. And in that field, there's not much diversification going on, to be honest.

That's true. There are alternatives, but you hear very little discussion about them. Armory was mentioned in the past as one of them. Another one I heard about is Bitcoin Knots. The user cellard made a good list about some other clients in a post from 2018. I am quoting the part that mentions the Core alternatives:

   
I have no objections to this part. If most full nodes go down or suddenly become vulnerable, the entire network will be shaken and decentralization would take a serious hit. 

I have just seen that ledger is collecting emails for KEEPING YOU POSTED on Ledger Nano S Plus!
Would you guess they are going to discontinue Ledger Nano S.  This sentence gives you such a feeling:  "The World’s Most Popular Wallet Just Got Better."

You can see it all here: https://shop.ledger.com/pages/ledger-nano-s-plus

Did you care to check before making a post that someone actually posted exact same information and link few days ago in this same topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5376279.msg59320568#msg59320568)?
We talked all about possible discontinuation for Ledger Nano S and I believe (only my speculation) this is going to happen very soon, like they did with all of their discontinued products Ledger HW.1, Ledger Nano, Ledger Unplugged and Ledger Blue.
I wouldn't buy nono S plus myself, but I would test it if someone gave it to me for honest review and feedback.

[/quote]
Judging by its overall build quality, it has to be cheaper than what I initially thought it was going to be.
[/quote]


Reading all the comments, I have the feeling that this is not going to be a success for ledger!
I was personally thinking the price will end up somewhere around 70-80 euros.
As we see the price gonna be at old nano X price (e.g. 119 euros) - too much!!

---

I would disagree to you as ledger nano s, it the best seller for them anyway-  if they simply going to replace S plus for double the price - they loose a major income. I do not think they are nowhere ready to go for it . Not in 2022.

Sorry for double posting !

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Update:

Ledger just announced "Nano S Plus Genesis Edition (https://twitter.com/Ledger/status/1501231268775747586) ^{[you can still watch the recorded version]}" a couple of hours ago and surprisingly, it's just 79€ instead of what two of their official resellers were showing "at the time (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5376279.msg59260560#msg59260560)"!

• Shipping starts from 21st of March (https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s-plus-genesis-edition)
• The Genesis edition is limited to the "first 10,000 buyers or rather orders (https://shop.ledger.com/pages/ledger-nano-s-plus-genesis-edition)"!
• It'll come with "POAP NFT and the Genesis engraving (https://twitter.com/Ledger/status/1501226243974385681)".
• 1.5 Mb

---

Btw, Nano S will be discontinued when their stock finishes at some point in either the middle or end of this year!

79 euros is not a bad price for pre-ordering, and it appears that ''insider'' seller from Iran was wrong about his price predictions he made some time ago :)
I am not going to buy this device, but I can't wait to see first comments and complains on ledger reddit channel.
Maybe I got everything wrong and this new device is going to work perfectly fine.

Adios nono S.
Can you tell me who said something like this will happen, and was my prediction wrong or what?  
My next prediction is that ledger assholes are going to make old nono S unusable for anything  in near future.
Watch and correct me if I made a mistake :)

Hint:

Exactly, I think it's a fair price... I completely forgot about the user ^{[with multiple accounts]} who had internal sources :D

I think I'm going to change my mind again and get one of these, but I still prefer to not order/pre-order it directly ^{[this may sound weird, but the only other option for me, is to get it from one of Trezor's official resellers that also sells Ledger products]}.

@iancr (https://twitter.com/iancr) mentioned it earlier in their "live stream (https://shop.ledger.com/pages/livestream) ^{[from 5:55 to 7:01]}" and you correctly predicted it :)

Unfortunately, I think that'd be the outcome as well.

I want to argue with you and put forward my argument that this will not happen. At least not now. If the Ledger stops supporting their wallets too abruptly (for a minute, and these are millions of devices sold), then millions of users will be outraged and raise a howl. There will be too many disgruntled and aggressive people who will flood all reddits and forums with their anger. I doubt company management would allow this, especially since they screwed up a few times with leaked databases. This will create an excess of negativity towards company.

Although in theory and in practice (remember past models), I admit the scenario that the company will no longer support old models.

p.s. In fact, I don't know what the Ledger's plans are and don't have insider information. This is just my guess.

The price is OK. I am glad it's not overpriced, but it's not on the top of my shopping list when it comes to hardware wallets for other reasons. It's actually a bit more than €79. When you factor in shipping and VAT, the total price is closer to €90. The shop is showing me €88,52 if I wanted to order it to my current location.

Yeah, they confirmed that once they sell whatever is left of their stock, it won't be produced anymore. I hope they won't stop maintaining it, fixing bugs, and security issues if they pop up. 

You're right, but it seems that they're offering "free shipping (https://i.imgur.com/gzJlO9x.png)" to those who order more than a single unit ^{[only the Nano X has free shipping on single orders]}.
^{- I do know it's not going to benefit everyone, but it could count as a workaround [except for the VAT part].}

Judging by how "ian" responded to some of the questions yesterday, I don't think they'd be offering the above things for more than a year after they stop its production ^{[I hope I'm wrong]}.

So what if they sold millions of nono S devices, they want to sell millions again and this time with nono S plus.
They don't even have to directly stop supporting model S, they can just make all coin apps with much bigger size and say it was mandatory for ''security'' and ''safety''.
Learning from their past behavior we know they will also stop supporting and making github updates for old model, and since it's closed source shit nobody can contribute from community.
Next thing they can do is to give some weird discount for all owner of old models, but you would still need to send them your personal information and I don't want to do that because I still remember data leak.

They have more ''important'' things to do, like adding more shitcoins, nft crap support, making videos and paying celebrities to shill.
If they can't even fix bloody version X for months, how can we expect from them to support their old devices.

Now I understand better what you wanted to say. Some details contributed to this.
Making more profit is not surprising for a commercial company. They just use to their fullest the goose that lays the golden eggs. It surprises and annoys me how Ledger try to make life difficult for their customers. The methods they use are not worthy of respect. Moreover, they leave no choice to their customers and force them to make unreasonable purchases. This is wrong and should be condemned.

dkbit98 doing the right thing by giving information about Ledger and helping to look at their activities from an unpleasant angle.

After what you've said, only dastardly marketing gimmicks can be expected from them. For their future buyers, this should be a reason to think.

Well, €79 for Nano Plus S isn't bad price. Ok, it's a bit more with VAT and shipping, but still, somewhere in the middle between Nano Sand Nano X. Though, maybe it's not worth to compare in such way as we probably should count Nano S Plus as replacment for Nano S. IIRC, Nano S price in past was vsomewhat similar to €79 or maybe a bit bigger.

I'm curious, did they announced it officially? Did they said it during announcement livestream? Whole fact that they discontinue Nano S is not something unexpected, it had to happen sooner or later. Now it's only question for how long they will continue to support this device and give updates.

That's a valid argument ^{[regardless of some of its issues not being software and firmware related]} and I'm already feeling sorry for those who have it.

Yes, it was during a live stream:

• Quote from: SFR10 on March 08, 2022, 09:29:43 PM
  @iancr (https://twitter.com/iancr) mentioned it earlier in their "live stream (https://shop.ledger.com/pages/livestream) ^{[from 5:55 to 7:01]}"
  

---

While I was scrolling through the Nano S Plus topic in their subreddit, I stumbled upon a feature that's not available in the Nano X: The ability to "run your own apps on the S+ (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/t9jysk/the_nano_s_plus_genesis_edition_is_now_available/hzw6gty/)"
^{- Personally, I have mixed feelings about it!}

As long as the person knows what they are doing, it's not a bad thing. If you are a developer, I assume this feature would allow you to create your own app for a coin that is not supported on Ledger for example. Or you can create something you think works better. This is of course an advanced feature and not something ordinary people should play around with.

Actually, many of the apps already supported on the HW are already developed by various crypto communities. They are not all made by Ledger. They have their Ledger Developer Portal (https://developers.ledger.com/) that helps with getting your app tested and approved.

Why no Trezor for example? Should be in a similar price range.

I would generally advise against any product from this brand; they showed time and time again that these devices aren't made to last - both physically and in software. They are also made with subpar materials and quality control, so I don't feel confident recommending Nono S or S Plus or whatever else they are going to release next.

I agree with everything you said, but I'm afraid this might be used by hackers to silently install spyware ^{[or something else]} when it's plugged in ^{[assuming that somehow they'd find a way to bypass the security checks or confirmations]}.
^{- Maybe I'm just paranoid...}

I already have a Trezor One, but I wanted to get another wallet ^{[without breaking the bank]} as a collectible item ^{[and maybe for occasional uses]}.
^{- Unfortunately, you're right about their problems [I would've ignored them if it was going to be my first and only hardware wallet].}

I am not comfortable suggest both Trezor and ledger hardware wallets at the moment, for different reasons.
Trezor is working on creating new device with secure open source secure element, and this could be a real gamechanger.
I consider current Trezor is less secure so I would ratter suggest buying Raspberry Pi Zero and creating something like SeedSigner DIY signing device.
Everyone already knows why I don't suggest ledger, until they improve their devices and switch to open source.

Few days ago people have started to receive Legde Nano S Plus devices they pre-ordered and I am starting to see first unboxing videos and early review coming out.
Decrypt released small article reviewing this device, posting images with process of installation and comparison with older devices released by ledger.
Same aluminum rotating shield is used that protects plastic body that holds bigger screen of this device that has similar size like older model S, but design is more rounded for case and buttons.
Looking at some unboxing videos I saw they are providing protective foil for this screen to protect from scratches, and it doesn't have to be removed.
Package includes new USB-C braided cable with instructions, and memory in this device is 1.5MB but only 1.28MB is available for apps.
Note that Nano S Plus is still closed source and it uses same proprietary operating system called BOLOS.

https://i.ibb.co/CQq5P4X/img71cfb0360cbbdb65034cea4023403fa1.gif
https://decrypt.co/95319/ledger-nano-s-plus-review-a-top-hardware-wallet-refreshed-for-2022

Just finished reading the article + watching a bunch of videos and it appears that all of them are using review units ^{[no "genesis edition" engraving]}, so I did some digging and according to their staff, shipping starts in the "first two weeks of April (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/tk3n7r/ledger_nano_s_plus_genesis_edition_delivery_note/i1o87bv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)":
^{- They never fail to disappoint their users [at least they're consistent] :D}

• Quote from: https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/tk3n7r/ledger_nano_s_plus_genesis_edition_delivery_note/i1o87bv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
  Thank you again for purchasing a Nano S Plus Genesis Edition!
  
  We will be shipping your device very soon, but later than we had hoped. Our final quality assurance steps uncovered an issue that required a fix before shipping. We are updating the firmware on your device right now. Assuming testing goes well we will ship your device within the first two weeks of April. Sorry for the delay! Thanks for your patience, Team Ledger

They have to be idiots to release new devices like this without proper testing, but do you know whats even more interesting?
Surprise surprise and NEW breach and data leak happened with ledger AGAIN, and that is confirmed officially by ledger team, this time because they uses bloody Hubspot that got hacked on March 18.
Let's get ready for millions of new spam emails and letters delivered to ledger customers... oh it must be so much ''fun'' to be a ledger user (not)  :P
I am standing by my words, ledger is the WORST hardware wallet company in the world.

https://i.ibb.co/7zS9qf4/imgf5f29c5ec671d04e76d4f9d3ed77058a.gif
source: ledger.com

Suggestion from legder is .... to ... stay..... c a l m...  ::)

First news and updates are coming from early customers who purchased ledger nono s plus genesis edition.
FIDO app is apparently missing so you can't use is as YubiKey alternative, many applications are incompatible with many third party applications.
If you are interested in shitcoins you should know that Monero wallet is incompatible, also Polkadot and Terra are not supported.

ledger reddit sources:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/tsxj0e/nano_s_plus_incompatibilities/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/tt0pa2/nano_s_incompatible_with_terra_polkadot/

They included a few more missing apps on their website: I CAN'T FIND AN APP FOR LEDGER NANO S PLUS IN MANAGER (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4565436877597)
^{- Regardless of this being a temporary issue, it clearly shows how inferior they are in comparison to other manufacturers!}

---

For those who still want to buy this device, it'll be available next week ^{[source (https://twitter.com/Ledger/status/1509481274569863173)]}.

It's like they have a gun pointed at them and someone forcing them to release software and hardware solutions before they have had a chance to test them properly.

A few days ago it was reported there was an issue with Tezos accounts that affected all 3 Ledger hardware wallets. You would open Ledger Live and your XTZ balance would be 0. According to their support, they have resolved this. Users are being instructed to delete and re-add their Tezos accounts for the problem to be fixed.

So it's even worse than I though, because their latest s plus device is not working with 14 applications in total!
They obviously rushed to release this device as soon as possible and they will fix things along the way, but I am wondering what more ''hidden surprises'' we are going to see in future.
Before I talk more about this issue let's wait few weeks after they release new batch of devices.

btw. I don't know if you see what one of their co-founders aka reddit moderator claimed on reddit recently...
According to him ledger is more open source than trezor  ::) maybe that is true in some parallel universe.

https://i.ibb.co/gmqrCk1/img85a400356a361acf5ae33d49c9745ebe.gif
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/tud0hh/comment/i332lxi/

It's more like their social media and PR managers live in a parallel universe. They say one thing, but the reality is quite another.

Here is another similar example:

Has anyone from the understanding experts looked into their github? It would be nice to hear the opinion of a professional about how the software architecture works and evaluate how much Ledger software is "open source", as they say.

Exactly, this might explain why few of the genesis editions have scratches: Just got the ledger nano S plus in the mail. Slight scratches on the metal. (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/tty5fw/just_got_the_ledger_nano_s_plus_in_the_mail/)

Perhaps he/she completely forgot the firmware and secure element parts :D

---

It seems that apart from its cheap-looking screen, the "buttons feels cheaper (https://twitter.com/mkarpushko/status/1509877479196012563)" than the non-plus version!

You bet it looks and feels cheaper because there is no way they could sell this new device for that price if they used better quality materials.
Things I am mostly worried about is how new screen will hold up compared to old one that died or dimmed after few years of usage, and second thing is their bad quickly made firmware that is almost certainly going to be full of bugs.
I am saying this because they had to use completely new secure element and new main microchip, so firmware was probably still in beta stage, that is why many apps are still missing.

Ledger nono S Plus is now available for purchase on ledger official website, and price is the same like for Genesis Edition, that is €79 plus shipping.
Before anyone decides to purchase this device I would recommend reading previous posts to find information about early issues and apps that are currently not supported by this wallet.
https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s-plus

Ledger removed old model nono S from comparison page in preparation for stopping it's production, so now you can only compare model S plus with model X:
https://shop.ledger.com/pages/hardware-wallets-comparison

Based on "this video (https://youtu.be/P4vt8uAG0Ws?t=74) ^[1:14]", they're claiming the same Nano X screen is being used on the Nano S Plus, so it's probably not going to suffer from those issues, but I'm still wondering why they seem to have different qualities ^{[not sure if something was lost in translation or this is another lie]}?!

---

• Free Ledger Nano S Plus for PREMINT Collector Pass holders! (https://twitter.com/Ledger/status/1518893677241905154)
• Just found out that two weeks ago, there was a "small drama (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/u4awq1/busted_nano_s_plus_is_made_in_china_not_france)" about the product in question!

So the individual board components are manufactured in China and then they get shipped to France where a domestic company puts them together and creates the final product. There really isn't any issue with that besides their unnecessary claims that it's made in France. There is no need to lie about outsourcing certain work to the Chinese because everyone does it and it's cheaper. Lying about it just makes it look like you have something to hide. Considering all the letdowns Ledger has caused in the past, it doesn't surprise me one bit that everything they do now is questioned.     

Interesting video made by ledger, and while I was watching assembling procedure for S plus device, I have to say that it's clear that everything was made in China.
Display is coming from China, and PCB is made by Shenzhen JOVE Enterprise in Shenzhen, China.
Regarding screen for this new device I saw complains from some people reporting there is clearly visible dust (maybe even hair) particles under the screen and it's impossible to clean them... so much about assembling quality of hairy workers (https://i.imgur.com/DifUnaW.jpg) seen in videos.
Fan fact is that ledger spent $100,000 for making of this promo videos  ::)

Here is ledger co-founder aka reddit moderator lying again:
https://i.imgur.com/i359nAG.jpg
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/u4awq1/comment/i4ufk58/

Than he changed his story when presented with clear evidence:
https://i.imgur.com/SE8J4NP.jpg
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/u4awq1/comment/i4wvkkb/

So anyone who own or purchase ledger have to trust that china didn't install some hidden back doors like they are doing with their smartphones.
Good luck with that  :D

It seems that lying has already become a tradition and a hallmark of this company. Curious to see what else will pop up over time.

It seems to me that dkbit98 likes to pump horror and fear into ledger users. :) But this doesn't in the least diminish the likelihood of negative consequences that may arise. On the example of the same backdoor in the HW device, as on chinese-made smartphones. Not the fact that it is, but need to be prepared for such surprises from ledger (this company likes to surprise its users) and take into account the likelihood of this. Think 100 times before buying these devices.

Would you recommend it at the moment based on the reviews?

Assuming what Ledger says is true and they use French pick & place soldering service, they only receive bare PCBs from China.
How would 'the Chinese' install a backdoor on a bare PCB? You know, this kind of stuff:
https://i.postimg.cc/FRPLTmBN/image.png
It's just a bare piece of FR4 with some copper on it; you can't install a backdoor into this.

Personally, I'll never recommend a closed-source device and even if Ledger were to one day release an open-source, verifiable device I'd be highly skeptical due to their track record. So no, I wouldn't recommend Ledger Nano S Plus. There are such great alternatives these days; it's not 2014 anymore where you could only buy Trezor or Ledger. Almost 10 years have passed and the market offers Open Source Hardware Wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288971.0), AirGapped Hardware Wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5361456.0), and even DIY hardware wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5367858.0) which are probably all better options than a Ledger.

Why would I trust anything that people from ledger are saying, when it's proven they are either liars or they don't know facts about manufacturing?
Backdoors are most likely hidden on microchips, not in PCB's, and it could be similar like with smartphones with encryption that can be decrypted by governments.
I don't understand they would invested bunch of money in making videos, music videos, promotional campaigns with celebrities, etc. but they keep hiding origin of their components.
Ledger is Made in China and Assembled in France, nothing wrong with that, just be transparent about it.

I don't trust that myself; I'm just saying, if we assume it's actually assembled in France, and they only get bare PCBs from China, the devices can't have 'Chinese backdoors' on them. Except if they buy backdoored components of course, but as you said, everyone gets their components from China.

If we start getting paranoid about everything that can have Chinese backdoors, we shouldn't buy 90% of the things we own. That includes the monitor you will read this post on, the mouse you open the thread with, and the chair you are sitting in.

All companies lie to protect their business interests and to increase their profits. When they get caught, they will lie about why they were lying. Even when they are not lying, they are intentionally withholding the truth or parts of the truth from their users to protect themselves and their profit margins. And yes, that goes for Ledger's biggest competitor as well.     

It's not just China that has problem, other government parasites are also working on backdoors, so I don't trust any of them.
Fact is that most electronics are now made in China and they have one of the crazy totalitarian ruling system, so that is why I mentioned them previously.

Are you keeping money and keys for your money in monitors, mouses and chairs or not?
It's known fact that smart tv monitors have been used for spying people, same as smartphones and other stupidly smart devices, but I guess people don't have anything to hide and they just shit with toilet door open.
We are talking about sensitive financial information here and yes I don't fully trust any electronics that is coming from China, and from other countries.

My point was that the computer, laptop, or phone you are using was made in China including all of its hardware components. You connect your hardware wallet to this China-made blackbox, access your financial, private data, work-related data, etc. You have a choice to connect a hardware wallet without a secure element that has vulnerabilities, which those with a secure element don't have, or use one with a secure element, which is probably again manufactured in China and closed-source. And no one knows what it does.   

The more paranoid we are, the safer it will be for us. Relaxing and taking words on faith, we become vulnerable. Therefore, it seems to me that a certain amount of paranoia will not be superfluous. It will be better if we count and prepare for the situation (take all possible steps to minimize negative consequences) that Chinese or not-Chinese backdoors will be found in the Ledger's devices than if it turns out that we thought that everything was in order with this HW, but it contained backdoor, which caused us financial damage.

But for some reason, when device manufacturers are discussed, Ledger turns out to be the champion among them in lies. This leads to some considerations about them and about what level of paranoia the users of their products should be. Their closest competitor is Trezor, which has been around for as long as Ledger, but their lies have not been as widely publicized.
 

As of today, I think the chances of getting a computer virus that infect secure-element-less hardware wallets through USB and then extract your seed, are very slim. The main benefit of such a storage chip is still against physical attacks, since it's obviously trivial to read off of a memory chip on a PCB in- or out-of-circuit.
One pretty big mitigation against this is using an airgapped hardware wallet (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5361456.0) instead.

Of course, if you input your xpub into a wallet application on a compromised 'China-made blackbox', the xpub could be stolen through some CPU backdoor. It won't mean a loss of funds but it would hurt your privacy and anonymity.

It's not true though that 'no one knows what it [secure element chip] does'. I noticed a few years ago, more sophisticated secure chips were more 'en vogue'; getting not only the task of secure storage but also being used for seed generation and such. These days, e.g. Foundation Passport, uses a more simple chip that just stores data and nothing else. The RNG is completely open-source on the PCB.

But I digress; for life-changing amounts of money, always feel free to go more paranoid (I don't intend to discredit / discourage when using this word), roll dice, use minimal, open-source software that runs on a RISC-V CPU, and store everything on paper! :)

While I was roaming around in their subreddit earlier, I noticed the following issues with the device in question:

• Misaligned USB-C port (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/unxaez/how_can_i_fix_misaligned_usb_c_port/) - I'm not an expert on this field, but it seems that it wasn't soldered properly to the PCB and AFAIK, there's little to no chance of this happening from the shipping alone ^[CMIIW]!
• Boot problem (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/un970t/nano_s_vs_nano_s_plus/)

---

Minor issue:

• Turns Off When I Try To Withdraw in zillet.io (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/ukbxbu/ledger_nano_s_plus_turns_off_when_i_try_to/)
• screen goes black when I try to collect my rewards or make a transaction while using the zilliqa app (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/umokwc/the_ledger_nano_s_plus_screen_goes_black_when_i/)
  

Posting this here although it's not related to Ledger but to Coldcard. It can still serve the purpose of proving how companies claim one thing, lie, and/or deliberately don't show the whole picture.

So, the new Coldcard Mk4 is out and this is what the manufacturer says about it. "Made in Canada". I actually don't know if it is or isn't, but I doubt the hardware components are made in Canada. We already had that discussion when Ledger claimed something similarly. Just below that, there is a sentence that says, "Lovingly soldered in Toronto, Canada". Soldered and made in are two different concepts. The question is, where do they get their hardware components from that are then soldered onto the board in Toronto? Also from Canada or maybe China or some other country?

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/12/t0ijd.jpeg

https://coldcard.com/

"Made in Canada" should be taken as a marketing gimmick and ignored. And in general, it is better to distrust any loud statement of hardware manufacturers. Most often, this is aimed at drawing attention to their products and increasing sales. For the sake of profit, you can say anything. Each company is trying to "stick out" the nuances of their devices. A simple example, Ledger is "proud" of their closed source code and presents it as the best protection for hardware wallets. Trezor emphasizes open source, also trying to attract buyers, with the feature that it is safer. One way or another, each of these two companies is trying to convince us that it is their device that has the best protection in order to sell exactly their products.

As I said, for a simple user, both options are the same:

Even if hardware wallets in Canada are produced entirely from their own components and assembled there, does this guarantee that there are no malicious programs in the devices? Of course not. Any "Made in Any Country in the World" device can have a backdoor regardless of the place of production.

If you are worried that Coldcard says the device is "Made in Canada" but the components are from China, then this is just a marketing gimmick, nothing more. Such lies are found at every turn.

He's not arguing that making a device in some country makes it more secure than another; but that they're being a little bit dishonest. For example, if you say 'Designed in California, Made in China' like Apple, you just state the facts. But claiming it was 'made' in XY and then arguing semantics ('technically, we made it here'), is a small sign of dishonesty. This, combined with other questionable statements and actions makes you wonder about the trustworthiness of the company and by extension the security of source code.

I keep bringing up this company (while also criticizing what they're doing wrong), since they do a lot of good stuff:

It's only assembled in the US, so it's the honest and right thing to do to write 'assembled' and not 'made'.

I agree with you, but does it solve the underlying problem?

Let us assume that China is manufacturing backdoored components that are part of hardware wallets, and 99% of all hardware parts are delivered from China. You now have hardware wallet vendors who claim two different things. One group says made in <insert country> and the other says assembled in <insert country>. The way they explain the manufacturing process doesn't change the fact they are using backdoored Chinese hardware (let's still assume they are backdoored). If the end-users loss their money to a backdoor, it makes no difference what the website and the wallets' official documentation claimed.

Guys I think it's time to get back on Ledger Nano S Plus topic, and there are other topics for china/other hardware wallets :)

I found several reviews for this model S plus, and I don't know how independent they are, but it's worth checking them out.
There are some youtube videos avout S plus, but most of them are paid shillers so I don't consider them seriously enough.
First review was made and updated on 11th May 2022, and it's good to remember that this device doesn't validate change addresses on the device itself, same like ledger nono X.
https://privacypros.io/ledger/nano-s-plus-review/

Second review was made in April and I like their comparison table, you can clearly see size comparison with older devices.
https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/ledger-nano-s-plus

I keep seeing people report many issues with crazy behavior and glitches for model X, but there are no such reports for S plus model.
Only thing I saw was dust and dirt below screen that can't be cleaned, and few people reporting restarting or shutdown issues with some coins, but nothing major so far.

Maybe I'm just a person who takes special care about words, but to me it's clear that 'assembled' doesn't imply security benefits. I do like to see less overseas production (even if it's just assembly) since in theory it could help with supply chain issues / allow to be more independent and it preserves local jobs. If however someone claims the whole device is made in the US or EU, someone might actually think there's less risk of getting hacked on hardware level.

There's also the aspect that the devices need to be flashed with a secret key to later be able to verify the authenticity of flashed firmwares and such. Since the assembly is in the US, this eliminates the risk that a Chinese bad actor forces the workers to flash a malicious key or otherwise compromises the security of the device software-wise.

It's also a bit a matter of principle for me. As I said before, if someone claims 'made in EU', but it's just assembled there; how much trust can I have in their other claims? How can I trust they treat my customer data safely? How can I trust the source code is secure (especially if it's a wallet with closed source code)?

Thanks for keeping us updated! Happy to see they are having less software issues finally... :D

You mean the change address is never displayed on the hardware wallet's screen? I never paid attention to that while transferring Bitcoin, but I think the Nano S also doesn't display the change addresses, does it? When you are working with Ledger Live, you don't even have access to change addresses. In Electrum, you see them when you construct your transaction, but you have to check yourself that it matches one of your change addresses from the Addressees tab.

The on-screen verification is only for the receiving address and the fees.

AFAICR, I haven't seen a hardware wallet that "directly" validates change addresses, so I guess that's the norm.

There was also a report about "boot problems (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5376279.msg60121993#msg60121993)" but for some reason, he/she deleted its content ^{[here's the "archived (http://web.archive.org/web/20220511125732/https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/un970t/nano_s_vs_nano_s_plus/)" version]}. Honestly, I'm a bit surprised at how much of a difference it has made when they took the battery ^{[and the Bluetooth]} out of the equation.

If I am not mistaken, this only applies for ledger and trezor devices, that is why they are very bad when used in multisig setup, because you can't even verify receiving address in multisig setup for ledger.
I think that Bitbox02 and Keystone don't have this flaw, but I am not sure for other hardware wallets... maybe someone can check how it works for them.
This could be interesting discussion for some new topic, and it needs more research and investigation.

I just checked for Passport (not to shill it again; it's just what I have handy right now and most of the time); it has a screen with amount and destination, another with change amount and change address and on a third screen, it shows the total network fee. After passing those 3 screens, you can sign it and get the moving, resizable QR codes to scan back into phone / laptop / whatever.

Since you mention BitBox02, if memory serves correct, it also shows change address and change amount.

Just bought new device. Being plugged with original cable it hasn't shown any sign of life that  disappointed  me for a couple of minutes. Then I have tried the different cable from  my mobile and, lo and behold, it came to life!

Nevertheless  there are some surprises for me.

Ledger Life has indicated that firmware of the device  is outdated but it doesn't allow me to upgrade it. Why?

More of that, it said that 2.43.1 version is available but the latest release  on   the official github is 2.42.0. Why?

IIRC, someone else also reported that issue on their subreddit last week, but I'm curious to know if the following issue also applies to you: Ledger Wallet won't connect to anything besides Ledger Live (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/vf5y6c/ledger_wallet_wont_connect_to_anything_besides/)
^{- Don't forget to verify them first!}

I'm not a LL user, but have you tried downloading it directly from their website?

You're probably viewing the "deprecated (https://github.com/LedgerHQ/ledger-live-desktop)" one!
^{- There's a "new (https://github.com/LedgerHQ/ledger-live/releases)" one but at the moment, it doesn't have anything in it.}

It must be a bug. I understand you use LL from mobile. I've never tried this from mobile, maybe you can install LL to PC and try from there?
What version of firmware you have now?


2.43.1 is the version of LL, not of the firmware. Your S+ firmware should be 1.0.3, I think.

But about version differences, I've seen that in many occasions for coin apps, don't be too worried about it. The git releases tend to be a little step farther than what published on LL. Why? There can be many reasons, I don't want to guess. You can ask for official info from their support (and that may or may not be the real cause, you know..)

I never saw any electronic device, not just hardware wallets, that have so many issues and problems like ledger devices.
You would probably have more luck buying used stuff on internet and ebay, than ordering brand new ledger wallet.
I can't believe they are now sending bad cables in their packages... ledger quality control = ZER0.

It's common thing for ledger to post many firmware updates, but you first need to update Ledger Live application before you can update firmware.
Don't expect to have smooth ride with any of the ledger updates, I remember having many issues with my old model S each time I had to update firmware.
So to summarize, first download and install Ledger Live app from official ledger website, install it and connect your ledger device and start Ledger Live, than update firmware.
Instructions page is also available on Ledger website:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4445777839901-Update-Ledger-Nano-S-Plus-firmware?docs=true

If nothing else works, last step is to contact ledger support.

PS
I would suggest that you use Electrum wallet connected with your device instead of Ledger Live for managing Bitcoin.
It's much better and you are not going to be tracked like with Ledger Live.

Unfortunately, it doesn't end there... It seems that they're not even checking the display screens properly: Defective Nano S Plus Screen (https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/v4c42n/defective_nano_s_plus_screen/)
^{- Because of the swivel cover + the packaging, I highly doubt it has anything to do with the shipping process.}

Forget about that GitHub repository. It will no longer be updated with release notes for the never versions. SFR10 already mentioned the new one. 2.43.1 is the newest Ledger Live version for desktop. You can see that on the official desktop download page of Ledger Live > https://www.ledger.com/ledger-live/download#download-device-1.

That just is. After being updated to 2.43.1 LL has allowed me to upgrade the firmware of nano s+ .


I have tested my s+ with 6 external apps with no issue on 5 of them. One app, indeed, reported internal error but I think that was related with not ledger itself but with knuckles of devs who coded device's internal  app.


Thanks, surprise for me, really.

Maybe you heard ledger nono S is not going to be manufactured anymore and you are thinking of purchasing their newest model S plus... well thin again.
Ledger never had good quality control, but when you see buttons not functioning in new devices and display problems, it makes you wonder what are they really doing in factory.
I think that someone member satscraper posted recently in forum that cable he received for S plus device also didn't work, so I wonder what's next surprise coming from ledger factory...

New Nano S+ left button not working?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/vil42n/new_nano_s_left_button_not_working/

https://i.imgur.com/Tr86GVC.jpg
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/viafmw/this_happened_to_my_ledger_nano_s_is_it_normal_i/

Thank you for the confirmation that it's not a general problem, but did the error happen on Electrum or Specter wallet by any chance?

They're building products that are capable of transforming normal people into an army of self-reliant robots...

• Ledger products > instead of "be your own bank" > it ends with "be your own technician"!

Nope, it has been related with that app that is rarely utilized by ordinary user. Electrum feels fine with my s+.


Free travel of the left button on my device is less than that one related to the right button. Nevertheless, luckily for me,  it  functions.

I was reading more complains from customers of ledger nono s plus devices, showing that built quality is not very good.
Plastic is poor quality and I saw several reports of plastic parts cracking around the screen similar like with old model S like I reported before:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/vq08bh/ledger_nano_s_body_cracked_and_screen_does_not/

Second issue I noticed was with one of the buttons on this device stops working after short time, that makes it unusable.
You can replace this with new device if it's still in warranty, but question is what happens after warranty expires:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/vq525v/right_button_on_brand_new_ledger_nano_s_plus_not/

It is not clear to me why a company with great resources and experience can't produce a HW wallet with normal quality. This is not a startup offering a prototype device on a low budget. Either this company saves on assembly because of greed and they don’t give a damn about their customers, or I don’t understand something. Most likely it is. Instead of spending money on the marketing department, they are could direct these resources to improve their HW device. Although, stop, why spoil a business model that already brings a lot of profit.

Problems with a low-quality case, buttons, display are not the only ones for the devices of ledger manufacturer. But what about the closest competitor in the face of trezor and its clones?

Of course that selling the one of the cheapest HW and still getting profit has to happen with some shortcuts here and there. Also, Trezor is from Czech Republic, where Ledger is from France. I think that salaries and expenses in France are significantly bigger.

So I think that they've tried and still trying as good as they can to keep the costs down.
And I think that they've been lucky in the beginning and the products - although without proper quality control - were pretty much OK.
Just the luck ran out and the missing/poor quality control shows its real face.

I really think that ledger is 99% made in China and it's only assembled in France.
For Trezor wallet I don't know a single case of customers reporting broken plastic body parts or buttons, and even if that happens you could just 3d print new part with publicly available .stl files.
Quality of most factory made plastic parts is bad these days (not just for ledger), so I searched to find .stl files for ledger devices (case or buttons) and I couldn't find them anywhere.
Only solution for devices with expired warranty would be for someone to make new design files, or buy a new device.

Probably this is due to the fact that the low quality of the buttons on s+ is combined with their reduced functionality as, opposite to s,  one has to press the button every time to modify the display readings. Considering the frequent  pressing and low quality, there is a rapid wear of the buttons on s+.

You can test it yourself like I did. Make up a story and contact their support. They will ask you to prove the claims by sending photos and/or videos showing the problem. Most probably you are going to need a valid ticket ID. If they are satisfied with what you sent them, they will tell you what to do next. Depending on the problem, you might get a free replacement no matter if the device is under warranty or not.

It's simple really. Better quality means greater initial investment in the materials, which reduces their profit margins. As a result, they earn less or they have to increase the price of their devices. If that happened, people would than complain less about the build quality, but would complain about the increase in price.

How downloaded file can be checked? Not so long ago I used to compare its sha512sum hash with that one published  on https://live.ledger.tools/lld-signatures   but now it seems that this method doesn't work as that site does not publishes hashes for fresh releases.

It's not possible to verify the Ledger Live installation binaries right now. When they abandoned the old GitHub repository and moved to a new one it stopped working. But the Ledger team should be aware of the problem and there was talk about this on reddit.

Their reddit moderator knows about it.



https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/vf5mc0/new_old_stock_ledger_nano_s_lots_of_questions/

They use cheapest junk plastic and you can't even find .STL files anywhere for 3d printing.
Since they are already retiring model nono S, I don't know why they don't release everything as open source, so people can repair and 3d print their junk on their own.
They probably can't make any money from doing this, so they just don't care, unlike Trezor and Passport are releasing everything as open source.
I don't understand why would they hide design of their cases for S plus, when someone could probably suggest how to improve them.

Ledger is scoring auto-goals all the time.
First they released firmware as closed source but they brag how their Ledger Live application is open source, now this can't be verified... what a circus wallet this is  :D

At the same  judging by the latest  (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-30/crypto-wallet-maker-ledger-seeks-new-funding-at-higher-valuation) they look for more vestments to achieve "a higher valuation than what it commanded at its most recent financing". Are they going to became a public company via IPO?

Since they have declined to comment on the reasons for the fundraising, all we can do is to speculate. Maybe there is a different source with more information out there besides Bloomberg.

They might need the money for more marketing and promotional campaigns since they have been focusing a lot on that lately. ::)
The article mentions the debacle of Celsius network and some other crypto firms. Maybe they are expecting that some of the users of such custodial platforms will migrate to Ledger hardware wallets and they will use the money to expand production and manufacture an increased number of new hardware devices for such users. 

I heard about this new $100 million deal they are raising, but this is one of the things that turned on my red alert warning.
First there is a bunch of companies that could invest in hardware wallets, BUT they are going to ask something in return and it's not going to be just money.
Whenever you have situation like this you can expect compromises, changed direction and other people pushing potentially damaging stuff into production.
I am not saying this could end up only bad for ledger, but pay attention who are the people and companies that are investing in ledger, if they even make this information public.

A month ago the firmware of ledger nano s+ has been elevated to 1.1.0. The  most important thing (surprisingly for me not mentioned in  the official release) brought to device by new firmware is the ability to install new app namely Security Key which implements Web Authn protocol and, thus, leverages public key cryptography security mechanism to fortify  user's accounts opened on various WEB services. More on Web Authn and on the use of Security Key app can be read on dedicated page of Ledger official blog (https://blog.ledger.com/security-key/).