Bitcoin Forum

If I started my own nation, would you join?
Would you be willing to by military means defend against the country from which we stole our territory from?
We would be a nation with the principles of "Be nice" (yes, marijuana would be legal).
We would be a nation where you only work a few hours a week with communal stuff like farming, fishing or building, and in exchange you'd get a house to live in and organic food (and most of the time you could whatever you want, like: lie on the beach and getting high).
Weapons would be banned unless we were invaded (there would be no reason to have them otherwise).
Hard drugs would be illegal (like heroin or cocain).
We would live in harmony with nature, and our electricity would be 100% renewable.
We would have a direct-democracy, so everyone could get their voice through.
Yeah, basically start an utopia?

Which of you would join?

depends where the country would be located

In a warm place, like the Caribbean! :D

too far away from my family, sorry, nope :D

The same nation with bryant.coleman? No problem with me if you got hot babes in your nation.

It could be, I don't know. This was just an idea I got, so this could be a new island, or an island already claimed by some country.
Well then, I'll make sure there are some hot babes when I start it! :D

will you legalise prostitution? :D

Bitcoinland? I'll join.

Yes, if the prostituted person wanted to be prostituted it would be ok.

Do you guys ever played Bioshock? Have you ever seen Rapture? If yes you will know how this would end, this whole 'utopia country' dream. :(

Nope. It is different. I am trying to build an artificial island in the international waters. He is talking about seceding from an already sovereign nation. Both options have its own advantages, and disadvantages.  ;D

yes, but bryants version is legal and the other one is not

if we want international support and recognition we must do only what is legal :)

Just remember that his idea could be considered illegal according to international law, since none has ever tried that before (I totally support that idea anyway! :)).


Yes, it's true that my country would not be "legal", but then, who decides if it's legal or not? The rest of the world? Sure, they can tell me it's illegal, but that wouldn't change the fact that I had an independent country. This project (which is only hypotecally) would not give a fuck about what the rest of the world thought of us. Sure, they could invade us, but as long as we are willing to defend it against the invaders we could succeed (because if they invade and kill all people in a place that they do not recognize a country, it would be considered murder by the rest of the world).

Yes... I have to concede that right now I am in the grey zone... that is not much is defined. I am still gathering all the available information and studying the legal prospects.  :(

are you serious? join some new county and defend it in military? no way
life is too precious to be on a whim of your business

Don't join then. Hopefully we wouldn't even have to defend it, loss of life is just unnecessary.
However, if they do attack we have to defend, otherwise we cannot build our utopia.

If the country currency is bitcoin,then count me in  ;)

of course, none of us would join if it was otherwise :D

Nice plan, but is it possible ?

Yes, as long as people believe in it (and are willing to fight for it, which they were not in Minerva for example).

If it is so, then how will he take care of the foreign exchange? None of the other trade partners will be accepting BTC. So he will have to convert BTC in to USD or CNY every time he imports something from the outside world.

That's a good point. However, the plan is to be self-sufficient, so there won't be much use of a currency.
Bitcoin could however be declared our official currency as a statement.

That sounds like a nice place to put the island ok why not if it existed

No.

No country in this world is 100% self-sufficient. I will give you an example. Some of the cancer drugs are patented to the US pharma. companies. That means that you cannot manufacture them in your country. You'll have to import them. To do that, you need fiat currency. Bitcoin will not do the job.

doesn't matter

we can create stores that will import those products (they purchase with FIAT) and sell it in our stores for bitcoin

the point is our currency has to be bitcoin

the 90% reason everyone here supports the idea is because we thought the official currency would be bitcoin

of course, we can print out bitcoins to make them more accessible, using the blockchain or however it works

it would be a currency just like any other, we could just rearrange the paper to look like cash, that way everyone would consider it as FIAT currency..

What is the problem of converting btc to any currencies. While we import we will also find ways to export. And we will accept any acceptable currency they will pay. I think would be the ways to survive and become powerful nation in the future if we trade with other nations. It think is very hard to be self sufficient at first. Are you creating a north korea type economy here?

This a least of problem. We need to create an island or any island we can call our new nation.

that isn't the problem,  the problem is that we will knock down the price by selling large quantities of bitcoin for importing purposes

While we will be using bitcoin. We should also have a dollar reserve. Almost every country has this. We will not only accepting bitcoins on our exports thus will have dollar for importing purposes.

that's a good idea

but, for all products we need we could make an offer for companies to sell, we will pay them in bitcoin

eventually one of the companies will realise how great of an opportunity this is because a new nation based only on bitcoin will definitely bring it's price up and might to the job for bitcoins!

we could rely on this for everything we need but still have a dollar reserve just in case..

of course we should firstly try to find companies that accept bitcoin for this, if there are none offer to pay in bitcoin, if no one answers use the dollar reserve but only as a last resort

our goal is freedom, complete freedom we will achieve only with crypto

after years go by ,one day people will start accepting bitcoins as a currency and we will be able to trade without a reserve but until then we will do business this way

We have endless ways the generate money we needs to be creative and practical.

We can run hosting servers, operate cayman type banks, operate exchanges, accept tourist, operate gambling sites, casinos etc the possibilities to earn are endless. The profits can be used to expand the island, security and for our dollar reserve.

but the only currency accepted inside the island has to be bitcoin!

as for tourists, when they enter the island we'll have stores where they could as soon as they enter purchase some coins with their dollars

they will generate great revenue for us, there will be plenty of people willing to see the new utopia without taxes and without centralised currency, bringing money they will convert into bitcoins and spend in our stores, enhance the value of bitcoin (and our bitcoin reserve), put more money in hands of the islanders and increase our GDP :)

I'm sure there will be a lot of tourist, if we do with proper promotions. But we need airports or ports, direct flight to our island. set up embassies to countries.

yes, that was exactly what I was thinking

airports are expensive and that's the problem, this will be a rather large investment

Airports arent necessary at first, we just need to make our island easily accesible.

Yeah, sure, not that we will sign any international copyright treaty anyway, but we won't have the resources to produce medical stuff in our country. And as someone else said, it's not hard to convert BTC to dollars or whatever.

Toursim could contribute to our economy. I know for sure that if I traveled in that area I'd visit a small nation like this.
We'll build a harbour where all boats will arrive, and where we have our fishing boats. We could also let "illegal" sites operate servers on our island, for a small fee (basically anything except child porn).
If we get a big surplus the money will be given to the residents.

Hmm... if tourism catches up, then you don't have to worry much about the Forex reserves. Tourism itself will bring in the much needed foreign currency, be it in USD or in EUR.

How would you even do this?

Good question. Since it's purely hypothetical I don't have a plan that I've really thought through, lol.
Maybe buy an island, develop the island until it's self-sufficient, declare it independent and hope the nation we stole the island from doesn't invade us. And in that case we would shoot until they give up or they've killed all of us! ;D

I think if you make it a nation you should name it True Liberty of America, then next we have to fight for the statue of liberty lol

Hope that they don't kill you, you mean?

Essentially, yes! :D
But I hardly doubt the nation would do much about it (as long as the nation is not a dictatorship). Wouldn't be worth the time and money to invade an island with a bunch of pot smoking hippies (in my imagination that's what we'd be in their eyes).

nope, in their eyes we would be reviolutionaris that want to establish a new world order (no taxes, no centralisation) and they would see us dangerous because our movement could spread to other countries

why was everyone against communism altough it was only the will of the people and equal distribution?

they don't like new things

Well, I didn't plan to establish it in the US you know! ;)
Nah, I think they'd let us live in peace.

About communism, it's a very beautiful thought and ideology. However, it can not be forced onto someone, and it cannot be applied to greater communities and countries, since it's based on everyones will to contribute. Communism isn't meant for bigger communities anyway, the plan is lots of small communities giving each other what they need. According to communism, there should be no state.
I myself could totally live in a communist community for a while.

that's a risk we can't take

I think otherwise  :-\

wouldn't it be easier to ask for a purchase of the island not as a land owner but as a country instead of stealing it away?

Yeah, but that would make it extremely much more expensive. And as a startup nation our budget will be very low.

I think war would cost a lot more..

No, since we would not have a really army, we would only have a few guns to shoot at the invaders.

No. It is not possible according to the international rules. Even if it was possible, no country will allow this. Remember what happened when John Kyle unsuccessfully tried to establish the Principality of Freedonia in Awdal.

Not nearly Libertarian enough, sorry.

yes, i would join your nation as long as you pay my salary in bitcoin.

how about the price of lifes lost?

with just a few guns we would be conquered in a day or two

So without any Navy and air-force, how are you going to defend yourself from the invaders? Even the Somalian pirates are nowadays armed with Rocket propelled grenades.  ;D

I never said it was Libertarian. More of some kind of environmentalistic anarchism.

Read the idea again. No money you know.
That's why I asked in the beginning. Loss of life is unnecessary, and can hopefully be avoided!
Well, I didn't plan to found it in Somalia either! :P
I'm not thinking of a big nation, and I don't think an airport would even fit on the island. And military ships would probably be as big as the island itself.

I think you're thinking that I'm gonna take a 1000ha island or something, lol! ;D
(Which is not the plan)

Or:
step 1) Develop an Iron Man like suit.
step 2) Take the land that you want.
step 3) Enjoy having the upper hand and being able to defend your nation.

How wil u get that kind of cash

May be he'll rise the money from people here, by offering shares for his project. Once it is established, revenue won't be a problem. It will come in from the taxes and tourism.

First you start with all these good intentions and then you will gradually abolish them when you have to confront reality... I guess that's what history teaches us.  :(
You promise a lot of things but offer no explanation how you could keep your promises. If you want me to join your nation, you have to give more thoughtful guidance.

As I've stated numerous times, this is purely hypothetical. I have no thought-through plans.
I don't really see why I would have to abolish any of the rules? As long as the nation doesn't grow to much there won't be any problems. And since it would be direct-democratic everyone could tell how they think our nation should be.

History teaches us nothing.

History teaches us everything

History teaches us what the winners wants us to think has happened in the past.

if you believe what you learn in school, if you take the books yourself and read sources from the winning side and the opposite side, be objective and you'll know, you'll see

"Hard drugs illegal"? You're just as bad as every other nation who forces sumptuary laws (espeically the rules of Christendom) down on the populace. People should be free to do whatever the hell they want in their own private quarters. If they want to OD on meth, they should be allowed to do that. Don't force "natural selection" to happen, just let it happen.

Well, then they can go live on their own island doing as much meth as they want to. I don't care.
The hard drug rule is because hard drugs are really harmful for you, and they can also make you really dangerous to the other people on the island.

well, that is true.

we're consirned about the saftey of other islanders :D

Why don't we just spread the word of love and get the entire earth to share?  Free world > quasi free nation.

And it's illogical.  If we obtained world peace through a world of love, your portion would be infinitely bigger than what you can accumulate through a greed based society.

Greed can give you a small portion of the world, but love can give you the entire universe.  Post singularity, humans will have no restraints other than their imagination.

Sure, if the crime rate is 0%..

Governments only exist if you give them power.  The only have power if we use their financial systems and fear them.  If everyone started sharing as the family we are in unison, governments would lose all power overnight.

These are the requirements to achieve a 0% crime rate:

1. Strong and efficient police force
2. Harsh punishments such as the 3-strikes law
3. Elimination of corruption

they have military forces, we can't take that away unfortunately  :-\

Which are still human.  I'd say your reality is deluded if you think they will just open fire on citizens like robots without a large amount of them turning on their fellow comrades.

You can fight hate with love.

Another way would be to not have any laws! :)
I think none really wants to hurt other humans. The ones that does it does it because they feel forced to do so.
Therefore, convince them that they don't have to do so, and they won't kill.

Pacifism is a failed idea. I am not falling for it ever again. Crime will happen, no matter how much love and affection you shower upon the would be criminals. Nothing can be done about it.

you my friends live in fairytales, that isn't real life

if ordered, they will kill

they do crime even without orders, look at american soldiers which pissed on muslim graves and shot civilians from their aircraft..

what would they do if someone ordered them to kill?

Pacifism is how we should live. And as Ghandi said, "Be the change you want to see". If everyone do their parts the world would be a much nicer place. But thanks to attitudes like your nothing happens, because "there is nothing that can be done about it".
Yeah, they do that, because those people are assholes. But to be fair, not all soldiers murder because they think it's funny. They do it because it's their "duty". However, if they realize it's not their duty to murder a lot of things would change.
It's well known that during WW2 many soldiers just pretended to fire at the enemy because they didn't want to get blood on their hands.
Sure, drones, it's like a video game, and therefore it makes it a lot easier to kill. So let's just ban drones. Simple as that.

get it in your head that we can't make them realize

we should own the mass media and make propaganda for years to come

we can't do that

we may be the change we want to see but others won't, you know that the nice guy always gets fucked up..

that's something you learn in life

There are a lot of Pacifist communities around the world, such as the Mennonites and the Amish. Just look at their history. They have faced intense persecution wherever they lived, and have been on the run for much of the 19th and 20th centuries. Things have stabilized a bit after they moved in to the US, but remember that the US government is acting as a protector there.

I've talked to some soldiers on one occurrence and found quite the contrary.

The Truth About History:
The truth lies somewhere in between all the other lies.  :D

Well there's a good start .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSpV37MFEJc

Then what would be the point? If we started a nation and ran it like all other nations runs theirs, then we wouldn't be different. Someone has to take the first step, simple as that. To quote Candide: "Excellently observed," answered Candide; "but let us cultivate our garden."

Half of the History that we learn is incorrect.

you have no idea what real war is

I live nearly 18 km away from Vukovar the place where they killed over a 1000 civilians, they pushed an old man into boiling water, they've beaten up people just because they're Croats, they raped women just so they can kill them afterwards, all of that just because we're Croats, all of that just because we wanted freedom

77-year old man, 16-year old boy, it doesn't matter to them

after,you'll discover their goverment is hiding the criminals for years to come

the UN will help us?

the UN was there, Russian UNs just got drunk with Serbians along the border others just held the line even preventing us to regain our territory, Serbs entered the city when we moved so the red-cross could pass

over 700 grenades were fired every day at the hospital which had a red cross sign in front of it, they saw the sign, it doesn't matter

this is what war is

and this was an attack on a nation with 5 million residents, how would we the "islanders" with just a few thousand people defend from a much mightier nation?

you know nothing until you live it

I know that my father got shot, I know that they shot at my pregnant mother, I know that they enjoyed torturing people

I would give my life any day for freedom, but don't make stupid decisions, if war can be avoided it must be


we can do whatever we want but it must be in international waters, we can't just occupy someones island

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences from the Balkan war. Horrible things happened and there was massacres from all sides.
But hypothetically, if one of the involved nations had decided not to even have guns, would all the massacres have occurred then? Probably not in that area. Would they have been free? Maybe not, but as long as they didn't make to much noise they'd be left alone. And when the war was over that nation would declare independence using diplomatic means. War will only be avoided if there are no people willing to kill. So if one side decides not to have any weapons, then no bullets will be fired. The citizens could make some kind of civil resistance, refuse to leave the area. Not many nations are willing to get the bad publicity caused from killing defenseless civilians. Especially if they only were in war with a nation that they didn't even recognize.

Building in international waters would be a good idea, if it wasn't for the cost of building stable ground there.

our independence was declared by diplomatic means, but they decided that creating a Great Serbia is much more important then diplomatic fairness


we didn't have any guns, Yugoslavian army was stationed in Belgrade and therefore we had 0 aircrafts, 0 tanks, 0 everything

when they invaded, only thing left to defend with was the police, they were the only ones with guns

but they weren't spared, they massacred 12 officers right in my town, peeling off their skin shows how much they enjoyed it

other nations have forbidden selling guns to any of the Balkan nations but Serbia had the YNA 3rd strongest army in Europe and we were unarmed

but it has been a thousand years since the Croatian kingdom, we wanted independence so bad, we never even thought about surrendering even though we didn't have enough food,water and ammo, we didn't fight only for our country but for our families, the memories in our towns and basically for freedom

we didn't have any bombs so we threw gas cylinders from agricultural planes because we didn't have any aircrafts, we didn't have any army rifles so we used hunting rifles, it took time until we gathered money to gain some weapons but we gained them, that is why we won the war, the will for freedom


that might be true for our island, but here it wasn't as their plan was to establish a Great Serbia from the Mihailovic plans which stated that all unserbs should be removed from the area, that is what their soldiers did
if they couldn't kill everyone they would simply send them go home trough a mine field, some would come, some wouldn't


the city was surrounded for almost 3 months :D
even if someone wanted to leave he couldn't


not from our side, even if we wanted to we didn't have the equipment for massacres

what I learned is that the will for freedom is greater then any armed force in the world
but it costs lives

if we can we should build it in international waters where no lives will be lost :)

What about in Bali, which is the first largest payment for bitcoin

Yes, but Serbia (Yugoslavia) was a country just coming out from years of communist rule. They didn't want Yugoslavia to be divided, they wanted power. Therefore they attacked. This was not a free democratic country.
I don't know about OP:s plan, but I got the impression that he would steal the island from some more "westernized" country that would not be able to do anything.

that is true but they would still try to liberate the island and when we put up a fight they would be forced to shoot..

The truth is that there is no truth and even this sentence might not be true. ;D

How about acting in love instead of fear and moving away from the problem to create more problems.  Love those around you and we can create a world of peace where we are.  Your mindset controls your reality.

Why talk about something that happened more than 2 decades ago? Looking at the casualty numbers from the Balkan wars, more than one-third of the dead were Serbs. That means all the three sides (Muslims, Serbs, Croats) were guilty of committing war crimes. Also, if you dig back the events of 1990s, the Serbs will also remember you the genocides committed by the Ustaše during the WW2, in which close to one million Serbs were butchered by the Croats and their Nazi supporters. 

sorry to say this, but that's complete bullshit

the only war-crimes Croats were occused for is the one in SAO Krajina around Knin where almost 180 000 Serbs fled, but wait

no murders!

you can find plenty of evidence online that Serbs organized a plan to evacuate all Serbs outside the city because they were afraid of operation Storm, and which they did

you can find data, even videos where Serbian soldiers in tanks ran over their own civilians (ethnic Serbs of course) just to flee the area, most Serbs that died there were killed by Serbs and no one else

We did no war crimes in our war of independence, no matter how hard you try to prove otherwise it is not true, that is why the Hague court released our general Ante Gotovina as a free man because there was no organized crime :)

about the WW2, first of all

only Serbs claim these numbers, this is the data that Yugoslavia sent to get bigger war reparations from Germany

in these number were counted all Croats killed in WW2 (500 000 killed by partisans + some killed by Serbian Chetniks + some killed by Ustashe)
total number (official number) of killed Serbs in Jasenovac is 45 000

while partisans killed over 50 000 Croats only in Bleiburg, without mentioning Kočevski rog, other hospitals etc.

that number is even more ridiculous because if a million Serbs were murdered there wouldn't be any of them left

or you're  one of those Serbian mythomans who believe that Serbs discovered America, that they are the first nation in the world and that everyone descended from the Serbs? :D

if you judge the crimes done in WW2, USA should also be punished, they killed over a 100 000 civilians with nuclear weapons

Ustashe killed 45 000

that is the 2WW and I don't see how Ustashe are related to Croatia

How do you compare a quisling goverment with a modern nation that was forged by anti-facist fighting?
Croatian constitution states that the country is forged by anti-facist Partisans and therefor Ustashe don't even have a slighest bit or relation with modern Croatia

if we were to judge modern countries for crimes of their quislings from 2WW, there would be no country that wasn't sued..

this only works if everyone takes it in notice, and the odds of that happening are unfortunately really low  :-\

OMG! Even the Ustase veterans would laugh at those numbers.

Majority wins I guess

80 000 in total

45 000 Serbs

you can even find the list of all victims here sorted by their nationalities, last names etc.

quite a lot of the people with my surname :D

http://www.jusp-jasenovac.hr/Default.aspx?sid=6284


also you can read these estimates..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp


just a question, are you Serbian or Russian? :D
because only one of those 2 nations are capable of believing such bullshit :D

besides I still don't understand what Ustashe have to do with Croatia?

Even Nedićs Serbia sent letters to Hitler claiming "Serbien is juden frei"


Before Yugoslavia,Triune Kingdom of Croatia,Slavonia and Dalmatia in 1910. had only 650 000 Serbs, how could Ustashe kill a million? :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Croatia-Slavonia#Demographics


there are no Ustashe veterans, they were all murdered by partisans

you're not up to date :D

when the german puppet state failed the partisans massacred everyone in relation with the old goverment including neigbours,relatives, friends etc. of someone who used to be an Ustasha :D

so yeah, only around 2% of them lived, by now time has surely ran them over :D

I am from South Asia. I haven't met any Serbs or Russians in my life. I don't know any Serbian or Russian language.

So, according to you, every one in this world except the Serbs and the Russians are pro-US?

what does this have to do with the US?
the US fucked up both nations

destroyed Croatian Republic of Herzeg-Bosnia in the Washington agreement and bombed Serbia for Kosovo..
in 20 years, 30% of Croats disapperead from Bosnia&Herzegovina just because we didn't get our own entity, just a few escaped during war, HVO (Croatian council of defense) liberated over 50% of Bosnia&Herzegovina and we didn't even get an entity which Serbians did, that caused massive moving..

I myself originate from Herzegovina, and the US should be sued for screwing the country up

3 consecutive nations, 2 entities, 1 country
only in Bosnia&Herzegovina..

and how did this get screwed up?
Washington agreement..

sorry about the mistake, but I haven't ever saw anyone except Serbians supporting this theory about a million man death but as they're in a tight relationship with Russians and I saw some of your posts supporting Russians in the politics section just assumed you're Russian and somehow in talks with Serbians caught up in the Serbian propaganda :D

I wasn't trying to be offensive, but quite a lot of Serbians spam around the web with that kind of lies..

The allegations cut both ways. You will argue that the Serbs are lying. Serbs will argue that you are the one who is lying.

yes, not all Serbs, only the nationalist ones

mostly teenagers, they outgrow that phase usually

the million man myth is mathematicaly impossible because there weren't that many Serbs on our teritorry at all

in 1910. (Triune kingdom)

650 000 Serbs

in 1991. time of the declaration of independence

581 000 Serbs

106 000 declaring themselves as Yugoslavs (probably more then half are ethnic Serbs, the rest mixed nations)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Croatian_census

besides, I'v just found some more relevent population data, this is data from wikipedia

https://i.imgur.com/ANIxhL5.png

Source, demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs_of_Croatia

you can see that the decrease of the Serbian population from 1931. to 1948. so before and after the war is only 90 000

there is no disccusion to be made, relevant Serbian historians and politicians know this data is false, only teenagers claim this myth is true as they don't possess enough information

When did this turn into a political thread about Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia?

when we started talking about war :D

someone claimed no one would invade because of freedom, I said it didn't stop the Serbs, and that's how it escalated :D

A typical he says , she says

doesn't matter what someone argues, the demographics data can't lie :D

I don't want to further hijack the original thread. But most of the people will understand the facts.

No thank you I am pretty comfortable here :DD

I hope so :)

Okay, now that we're done with this Yugoslavia thing, where do you think it would be a good idea to locate this nation? (Still hypothetically!)
I'm thinking maybe Belize? Small army, nice and cheap islands in the Caribbean, and it's a democracy with no real problems on civil rights.
Do you have any better ideas? :)

how about Cortes Bank? :D

Nah, I think it's better to just get a non-submerged island. I guess we'd run into trouble for sure if we started dumping sand and stuff on a submerged island within another nations control, at least if that nation is as organized as the US! :D

isn't the EEZ 12 miles?

that means Cortes bank doesn't belong to any country :D

No, the EEZ is 200 miles! :(
Otherwise building a new nation would be an option. Only the territorial water is 12 miles.

ohhh yeah, god damn it..

Saya del Maha is already taken by bryant.coleman we need to find something new :D

Or we take an already claimed island and hope for the best! ;)

so we wait for bryant to build an island and we take it from him? :D

we could do that on the island in Panama we were talking about in bryants thread, or purchase an island in Greece, they might even leave it but I'm not so sure

how do you plan on defending the island?

Yeah, let's steal bryants island! (Don't worry bryant, this is purely hypothetical) ;D
We could maybe do it in Panama or Costa Rica since none of them has an army. But remember that the Belizian army is really small, and also the area is heavy influenced from being a british colony until the 90's.

I think we've been over that defense thing a couple of times, I don't really plan to defend it since I don't think they would care much (unless we were actively breaking laws the Belizian government considered really important). Not breaking them could be considered out "defense policy". :)
Those laws would probably not even collide with ours.

so are we going in this any further?

let's pick an island and make plans how would we make it function and set up defenses if needed :D

First we should probably pick an island and then we could start calculating the costs. We should probably buy the island as well, so we really just occupy our own island.

we should pick an island near western countries so we can focus on tourism sometime in the future

a decentralised utopia with legal weed and no taxes would surely attract some tourists :D

the biggest island on privateislands.com is only 146 km2  :-\

and that one isn't an option it's too close to Brasil..

Therefore the Caribbean would be ideal. Or maybe the mediterranean. But the mediterranean gets cold during the winters and is much more expensive. The positive thing with it would be that we would have less risks of being invaded.

yes, but it would be a small island  :-\

Cebaco island would be a good choise, but not mediterranean and only 14,9 km2

the biggest one in Europe is Dulichium Island, 5.4km2 :D

but it also has around 4000 olive trees :D

The smaller the island is, the easier it would be to get away with it without military involvement.
Otherwise this maybe? Quite big for the size and location! http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/modi-island

An alternative in the Caribbean would be: http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/grenell-and-horseshoe-caye

talking about Dullcium Island or Cebaco?

Dullcium island has a better location but a bigger price too :D

besides, don't you think the EU would be overprotective for Greek islands?

I updated my post! :)

I wouldn't worry much about the EU. Too much bureaucracy for anything to happen. The only thing they would do would be to say we cannot join them. Another scenario would be that the EU tell the Greek government to sell us the territorial island so they get some more money. :D

way too small Modi Island is 0.02km2 and Grenell and Horseshoe (dat name haha :D) 0.1659 km2  :-\

Dulichium Island would be good 5.4km2 , but Cebaco is 3x the size :D

Yeah, but those islands are much more expensive. Also since they're bigger it would be harder to get away with.
I think at least Modi would be enough. And if we need more space we'll just build floating islands around it.

yeah, but 0.02km2..

that's really small :D

how could we build a country there?

our maximum capacity would be a 100 residents or what? :D

We'd have to build apartments houses to support our population. To become self-sustainable on food we'd build farms underground. And if we need more space we'll build floating islands where we can build more buildings!
Also 20 HA is 0.2km2!

oh yeah sorry :D

can we stop quoteing this? :D

still, we can't go far underground (it's an island lol)

we need more space..

at least 5 km2..

this is too small..

there is no room for anything

It's not that small. I mean it's still 200,000 square meters. There are lots of room to build. And if we need more land, we'll just expand the island!

but on the damage of Greece, how long could we push that button? :D

I mean, Greece probably wouldn't do anything but I'm consirned about the EU :D

Nah, Greece will not be able to afford any interventions lol! :D
I don't think the European Union would do anything. As I earlier said, to much bureaucracy. Those pricks in Brussels are so full of themselves that they won't care at all.

It sounds a bit hippie, but I'd join! :)
(I cannot guarantee I would kill though!)

it's okay :D

my trouble is that as it's too small we couldn't build harbors, airports etc.

We could buy an old hangar ship for airport, and the harbour could be built outside from the island in concrete. :)

Why a nation anyway? You would be subject to international laws concerning commerce and human rights,I suggest a property belonging to a church or spiritual order of some type similar to the Vatican, leave out religion, add humanism,  adopt some of the Scientology policy's of governing your people along with some sort of so called democratic process, subject the people that would be a part of the island to the laws of the country they claim citizenship to and give all visitors a lei when they land on it.
Members of such a property would need to come from all points of the earth and there would need to be some sort of sponsor program for people to be considered.

P.S. Please appoint me as your leader  ;)

You mean he should blame it on religious beliefs?

Blame? I read the thread through and have no idea what you mean. care to explain?

Honestly, I don't understand what you mean. Care to explain? :)

I don't think bigger countries would like a new movement starting in their backyard..

I would consider it only If I was able to come and go as I please.  And If if the nation is on this planet( I'd suspect it would be).  Then I'm gonna need a gun for sure.

Why would we keep anyone there if they wanted to leave? :D
And why would you need a gun on the island? Since none else would have a gun there would be none you'd have to defend yourself from!

Would allow cryptos in banks.

What do you mean?

I'm just making sure I ask the question that need asking in regards to my freedom to come and go hehe.  As for the gun I think it would be nice to have some security on my person.  I suspect there will be guards on this island and they would have guns correct?  I think of my on an island with no weapon and I just get a uneasy feeling...

No, I'm thinking no guns at all. If there comes a need for any weapons for civil security purposes, then non-lethal weapons like stun guns would be enough. Of course everyone would be allowed to carry one.
As for guards the plan would be to let the inhabitants be the guards. If someone does something that the community does not approve with (like rape or assault) all inhabitants would be obligated to intervene.

indeed, we would need some guns in order of foreign intervention, just to show we'll put up a fight :D


you mean like a witch-hunt? :D

Lol, not really, people would be free do do as they wish as long as their decisions would not put others and the society at risk. And if someone harms other people that person would have to be neutralized and disarmed. Pretty simple actually.

Ok then i like that idea if the people are the guards and not some separate group, that makes more sense.  I don't wonder about foreign threats more so then attacks form within.  I'm just making sure I'm not joining a cult by asking question really haha.  Seems like a good idea from over here.

Sooo, have you decided where you will place it yet? Just so I know, and I'll come help building the nation for a few weeks during my summer holiday!

I don't think we have? Feel free to come with suggestions! :)

What would our budget be?

A few million dollars tops. We'd need to raise the money first, so the budget would be quite low.

That Greek island you earlier mentioned sounds good to me. Not that expensive, and quite big. At least it's big enough to support a smaller population.

the 5km2 one or the 0.2km2 one?

The 0.2km2 one. The price for the island is good, and the island is also big enough to hold a small population. And since we're on a low budget we have to take what would be the most realistic alternative. Also, the bigger the island is, the harder it will become getting away with declaring it a nation.

Well that is true, but that budget thing got me the most

Yes, it is the most realistic option..

I think you are talking about Monastery.

which monastery does have weed legalized?