Bitcoin Forum

anyone holding over 10 bitcoin today will probably have 1 million USD (in today's purchasing power) in 10-20 years.
most of the fiat pundits who mock bitcoin today will be eating their hat when the USD finally implodes.
be glad you are lucky enough to be here in this moment in time when bitcoin is first invented, it will be quite a story to tell...

The only reason 10BTC would be worth $1,000,000 is because of hyperinflation, in which case I wouldn't sell my coins and would be using them for directly buying stuff instead.

there will never be more than 21 mil bitcoin.

there are (today) 25 trillion dollars (M1).
when bitcoin replaces the dollar one bitcoin will be worth 25 tril / 21 mil = 1,190,476.19048 USD (in todays purchasing power).

Posts like these make me feel wonderful!

Who Is really interested in bitcoins and are hoping them to go over $100k will probably have more than 10 bitcoins because at the current price 10 bitcoins are only over $6k dollars and who can say that It's a lot? Those who think BTC will hop to 100k have at least 100 I think. And those who own 10 or something are just safely experimenting.

Ok so?   They're still worth 1 million.  So you still have 1 million of buying power.  

"Six in one.  Half a dozen the other" ... :)

Pretty sure we're the new wealthy elite.

PS:   F Mark T. Williams.
http://www.coindesk.com/mark-t-williams-bitcoin-bulls-time-will-vindicate-prediction/

I don't know. According to the polls posted here before, most of the users own less than BTC1. Nowhere close to becoming millionaires, even if Bitcoin increases in value by 100 times.  >:(

There is limited room at the top. A world full of millionaires simply means your money isn't worth much.
Also, there are many things in life more important than money....Have you (anyone) thought about that recently?

This forum is full of future millionaires
This forum has a decent number of current millionaires: Congrats on your huge piles of money.  :)

My pile of money is a microSD card :P

EDIT: ... and a paper wallet.

Right now there are some 12,000,000 millionaires in the world. If everyone with more than BTC10 becomes a millionaire, that number is going to increase by less than 1%. Not a major change by any means.

I like what you are saying. Say more, please!



And money makes it possible to devote more time to pursue those things ;)

Knowing that there are over 7 Billion people over all world and 12 million people are millionaires that means  about 0.17 % of the people are millionaires and that doesn't sound much at all.

OK ... Bro


1) Kids ?
- hospital $$$
- education $$$
- food $$$


2) Travel ?
- airplane $$$
- taxi $$$
- insurance $$$


3) The healthy ?
- Bio food $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
- Sport $
- no stressed job $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$





....


So live in a island and cook coconut if you want but you tip in a forum ... so you have PC or usually computer to do and this cost a lot if you don't work for it.

Hehe , interesting. Cant wait till my 10m satoshis are worth 1m $ .
PS. Not going to happen :D

Very good point bro. Actually money is most important thing in life , u almost cant live without it. Except maybe in some cave with some garden and animals to make food :D . But that is not life. So yes , money is most important thing in life.

I suspect 10 BTC worth 1,000,000 USD (in 2014 purchasing power) will happen way sooner than 10-20 years. As for the USD imploding I doubt it, more like USD keeping 95% of today's value or more. As for an implosion, gold is the far more likely candidate in a brutal bear market. The fiat pundits will just sit by and watch a massive transfer of Austrian / Libertarian wealth from gold to Bitcoin.

Fine...In the USA "millionaire" has lost it's once lofty status since we have had a huge increase in paper "wealth" the last 20 or 30 years.
These days in America 1 Million Dollars is not nearly enough to be comfortable for very long.

2~4 years


ah good one, i should probably make a backup on sd as well. probably last longer than USB and easy to carry and hide.

His name was Robert Paulson

Well yes you must be capable to earn money for surviving but It depends how you look at It money Is not important but It's important what you can do or buy with It. Like If you have a job you earn a salary enough to buy food , clothes ect.. and you don't make such big deal about money. But If you say you must have money to barely do anything in this world you are right.

10 mil is the new millionaire. Sad but true.

Agreed. We need to get away from this thinking of "BTC= x USD" because it just promotes the whole get-rich-quick ideology. What we really need to say is, in the future bitcoin will be a viable currency by itself, and those that got into it early will be able to afford to buy themselves homes, cars, etc. It won't need to be converted, or compared to USD or any other FIAT because it will stand on its own.

Perhaps, we also need to have BTC x Gold, to make the price appear more stable to those complaining about the volatility. 

THIS


also as already stated the us dollar is worth shit now
same as pound etc
one bag of shopping in supermarket here in UK is about £25, and no luxuries like booze, fags etc
£120 to fill tank of petrol in car, £9.50 for packet of cigarettes (20)

btc should be way higher now in $ terms as it's so worthless
hopefully 100 bitcoins would last couple decades of good living

we just need sites like bitpremier.com to sell cheap european real estate, nice fincas etc instead of just top end property and midrange stuff

it will come

like it or not prices today are mostly quoted in USD, saying that one bitcoin will be worth X amount of 2014 USD is just a convenient way of saying what one bitcoin will buy in the future.

I hope that I'm a millionaire due to the fact of Bitcoin.

The system is rigged so that everyone does not see the value of goods, they only see the monetary value, not the real value.

Therefore everyone thinks fiat money has value, and thereby makes it so.

Fiat money is worthless, but the fact that so many people believe in its value make it valuable.

Really...10 BTC to make anyone a millionaire sooner then 10 years?  Not doubting it will happen but how soon do you think?

No one can make a solid estimate on how long it might take it might never get there. I find it hard to believe that 10 Bitcoin could make you a millionaire because a lot of people own that amount and it that would be thousands of people would become millionaires in the same few days.

I think you'd be surprised how few people own more than ten. Most of the polls here show a big chunk, maybe the majority, have less than one.

If values keep on going up then they're going to be spent or cashed out and it'll dilute even more.

If the value keeps going up, people will also start to 'scavenge'. Already multiple scams going on. New wave of phishing and hacking will possibly start as well, as the value increases.

10 BTC + 10 Years = $1MM USD = Truth.

How is that sad? A millionaire is a individual or person whose net worth is over a million units in a chosen currency.

It's sad because being a millionaire was every American kid's dream a generation ago.
By the time we got there, its not even that much money anymore.

It's a nice idea, but really I don't believe we'll reach $100,00 USD a coin anytime soon. I doubt it'd even be in my lifetime. It would take massive adoption by nearly everyone in most major economies for us to have the price spike to that point - and realistically I doubt that will be the case until we can convince laypeople to use Bitcoin (considering that most don't understand it).

Agreed, it's a nice idea!

So $100,000/BTC by 2024?

It is actually possible, there will be some Bitcoiners on here that will hold for 10 years  :D

Like to think I'm a fairly logical person, have to concede that valuation is not outrageous

21 mil btc
Means that only 21 mil people will be able to own a full btc at any specific time.
There are lots of people on earth and in a few years pop will stabilize at 10bil if you believe Hans Rosling.

If you own a BTC you are in the minority now and in the future.

It is dangerous to make money the goal of your life.
A better reason to support cryptocurrencies is if you support the advancement of humanity.
Call me a technolibertarian and a techno-utopian or whatever... but if we can have a way for people to live long and healthy with enough food and resources for everyone then what would wealth matter, why would you necessarily want to be richer than anyone else. Already now you can do more than the wealthiest man alive 100 years ago.

I find the people in this thread claiming 10mil is the new million ridiculous. If you have any idea what people like you and me live and survive with in some places of the world the idea of a million dollars (or even $100) would seem like a dream.

Steve Jobs was very rich. Then he got cancer and now he is dead. Working together we may one day solve problems like cancer. Years ago a measles killed so many, now we vaccinate and don't even need to think about it. (In fact the vaccination works so well that some people have stopped believing in measles!)

The problem I have with the focus being on making money is that this way of thinking incubates scammers and fraudsters for who the end goal is money and who miss the bigger picture.
And every added scam and fraud detracts and places obstacles in the way of cryptocurrencies achieving the utility they could.
But hell if you support this and invest purely for personal gain then please do, just keep honest too.

/sermon

That's odd. With one million dollars, I can buy a average house were I live. And at least cover some living expenses for some time.

House - Average where I live is at least 125K-200K. 3-5 Bedroom, possibly 2 bathrooms. A few thousand sq ft, not over 6,000 sq ft  - mansion. Also possibly a few acres of land around it.

Food - Averagely spent on food is $175 a week, according to Google, or in that range. A year is about 52 weeks. $9,100 dollars a year, approximately.

Car - Not really fancy for a car. Thinking off the top of my head, let's say a Hummer. That costs about $10K, and $80 for gas every week where I live. $4,160 a year + $10K for car. For any repairs, let's say a extra $10K.

Clothes - Kind of preppy guy. Going to assume in the $400-$1,000 range. Various sites say $121-$200 range, though, so I'm going with the latter. $200 spent monthly, I guess. $2,400.

Utilities + Health + Leisure - I can't go without Internet, and housing is to take into mind. Plus cable, and other things. At least $665 monthly, which turns into $7,980 annually. Other services, such as my phone bill and such would probably be around $427 a month, $5,124.

Average Total - $213,764. Either I'm missing something, or a million dollars is now the ZWD compared to a dollar.

I completely agree with this statement. Not saying that it couldn't happen, because I want it to, but for the masses to adopt bitcoin it needs to become easier to use and overcome some of its existing limitations. The biggest draw back of BTC is ease of access. Exchanges are not exactly "simple person" friendly as they require a basic understanding of trading and look completely shady. Coinbase is working towards the general user base, but even at this point it takes days to get purchased funds. It almost needs to be dumbed down.

It has always been my opinion that the easiest way of adoption would be a bitcoin debit card that works similar to the current debit card system.  However they wouldn't be tied to actual addresses, but rather accounts. The account would generate a new address when sending as it currently does and a pin would be required to uncover the private key to move funds.

Where bitcoin currently is excelling is in tech savvy people. There has been a small subset who have adopted bitcoin to gamble. Especially in the US. I don't see the masses flocking to BTC for at least another 3 years.

Massive adoption by nearly everyone in most major economies would bring the price of Bitcoin to 1 million USD and more. I don't say it will happen, but if it happens, this is the kind of figure we are looking at. Not 100K.

Strong inflation of the FIAT currencies which is happening right now and accelerating would also multiply the nominal value of Bitcoin over the years. If real inflation reaches more than 20%, which it will, we are looking more into 10 million USD per BTC in the best case scenario within 10-20 years.

But full adoption is not a certainty of course. However, even a 5% adoption can bring the value of bitcoin to 100 000 in the next few years.

Agreed. The thing that boggles me is that they've probably never had a million dollars in their life, but make the assumption it's not that much money 'anymore'. I myself have never held that much money, but have put a few nervous glances in that direction. But saying one million dollars isn't a lot is... Terrible.

its a good perspective.  still, where i live a house is more than that (at least the one my wife wants)....and college tuition for kids..yikes... it eats up lots of moolah quick. 

The reason why I didn't include college tuition is because it depends on what college you go to. For example, where I live we have Community, Private, and University. Same reason why I didn't mention a kid's boarding school tuition, or a private school's.

A million dollars wouldn't even buy me a house in my city, a 60 year old house full of mold & asbestos can be bought for the 'affordable' discounted price in the $1.2 million range.


I don't see how a million can last anyone, even if you moved to a third world country and lived like a Slumlord.

Really? Do you mind me asking what city you live in, and I'm assuming you're in a mega-city, or a more urbanized city?

Yes, a million dollars can't necessarily last everyone - but it'd be foolish to claim it isn't a lot of money.

yeah but even if a BTC = $100,000 or more in USD, what exactly is the USD worth?? Mere fractions of a cent..

I've never thought about that is this argument. What if USD was indeed worth a little then? It's not exactly the highest currency now, with the GBP and Euro. And the price falls sometimes, not as rapidly as thought of, though. So it is possible that Bitcoin could be $100,000, but what if those USD are €90,000 or £80,000?

Yeah exactly, that's why fiat sucks.

HA. Jokes on you. A million dollars today is not what it used to be.

HA, ha. In 10 to 20 years a million dollars will be nothing.

Especially since the US dollar imploded as you say.

<shaking head>

Bitcoin just broke $650 again. So we are 99,350$ away lol

IIRC - I read a study which made the assertion that a million dollars today was only worth the equivalent of $70,000 during President Hoover's Great Depression.  A millionaire back then was actually rich rich.

Seems plausible when you factor in purchasing power parities.  A Coca Cola in a restaurant used to be .5 cents for a very long time, whereas today it costs maybe $1.0 to $2.0 at restaurant now (depending on where you live).

I've witnessed a great deal of inflation in my own lifetime and I'm far from being an old person, let alone middle aged.  At the rate $Fiat is going, a Coca Cola will probably cost $40 per drink in a restaurant by the time I am retirement age.  The concept of saving for a retirement is almost a joke, since any chump change you may save today won't be enough to cover future living expenses.    

Think about that when you hear about pensioners eating dog food - you might assumed some didn't save anything (which could be true for some) but more like most were robbed out of their savings through inflation.

Having one million dollars with you don't guarantee you a comfortable lifestyle for more than 10 years, unless you invest the money wisely. Once you get rich, the government will try to take away your money, and give it to the lower income groups. The challenge is to maintain your wealth, by investing in wise schemes.  ;D

I sure hope so, OP. :P

Nice. 650 you might was well round up to $1000.

That means it just has to 10x twice.

No freakin problem!  :D

3-5 years. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet)

"The Internet's takeover of the global communication landscape was almost instant in historical terms: it only communicated 1% of the information flowing through two-way telecommunications networks in the year 1993, already 51% by 2000, and more than 97% of the telecommunicated information by 2007"

Beliathon, can you explain why/how bitcoin will get that big that fast? 10-20 years seems more realistic than 3-5 years for a price of $100,000 per coin.

Greed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LfZFGcGc_I). Fiat is rapidly becoming worthless. Word travels fast in the information age.

100K and 1 mill are simply arbitrary values with no meaning without mathematics. I simply said 100K because OP was assuming that those with 10BTC or more would have at least 1 mill and I gave a scenario that I was fairly sure would suffice. I doubt anyone would be capable of actually estimating the value of Bitcoin given a specific number of people using it on a day to day basis. For all you and I know it could be 10 million.

I'd tend to disagree with that statement - it seems to be a bit exaggerated. Do you have any maths to actually suggest a USD$10million value in that timeframe?

This forum is full of future post-capitalists.

The math is quite simple.

The Gross Global Product is a bit more than 50 trillions USD today. Let's take pessimistic views and let's assume the Gross Global Product to remain constant in real terms. If we assume a 20% real rate of inflation over the next 10 years, it would be 300 trillions USD in 10 years (USD would be worth 6 times less in real terms).

If BTC reaches full adoption (which is of course a very optimistic idea - and what does it mean exactly?), we can take a very conservative approach and estimate that the market cap would need to be about 50% of the annual gross global product, so 150 trillions USD.

If we assume that the total number of BTC in existence in 10 years will be around 15 millions, we have a very simple calculation : 150 trillion / 15 million = 10 million USD.

Of course these 10 millions would be worth "only" 1.67 million USD in today's real purchasing power.

But in such an optimistic scenario, I believe that the figure of 50% of the global GDP market cap would be too low. Most people would be keeping their wealth in BTC as opposed to FIAT, treasuries and stocks due to the real inflation. So we are looking more into a market cap of 200% of global GDP which would be 600 trillions USD in 10 years or 40 million USD per BTC.

USD has about 2% a year inflation according to the US Federal Reserve. It is very possible for 1 BTC to be worth 100,000 USD before the USD's purchasing power drops below 95% of its 2014 levels.

What about GBP and EUR? :D

2% is the official inflation rate. The real one is about 10% if we use the methods of measuring inflation in the past.
Don't be fooled by "official" stats. Inflation is running at 10% and will accelerate from here.
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42551209

GBP and EUR are also going down the drain.

http://www.emeraldecocity.com/Currency%20Purchasing%20Power%20Decline%20since%202000%20USA%20Canada%20Euro%20Pound.jpg

We will always compare BTC to USD, EUR , GPB or other currencies just like we compare other currencies with each other  like EURO WITH USD or EURO with GPB, and If you mean we must use BTC as a currency to buy things I agree, that would make BTC way to market much more easier but I don't think there Is a problem converting BTC to USD , It will just take time for BTC to infilate.

We will always compare BTC to USD, EUR , GPB or other currencies just like we compare other currencies with each other  like EURO WITH USD or EURO with GPB, and If you mean we must use BTC as a currency to buy things I agree, that would make BTC way to market much more easier but I don't think there Is a problem converting BTC to USD , It will just take time for BTC to infilate.

EDIT: doubled post by accident because of an ERROR.

Conclusion: I should buy a country and make Bitcoin its official currency.

You cannot buy or invade another country. This is the 21st century and we have organizations such as the United Nations to prevent such incidents. The only option for you is to declare independence for the territory where you live, and secede.  ;D

But the problem is noone is looking into future in 10-20 years and noone will holding their bitcoins just to exchange it in 2030, so the quantity of future millionaires here is not so huge.

The UN have a fantastic track record for preventing invasions  ::)

Meh, I won't be one of those future millionaires, not with my strategy :(

Maybe It is possible to buy  a very small Island like Comoros , Samoa or other Island but they are so small. But you  could make bitcoin as official currency there but I don't know If It would be possible to buy It even If you offer a decent amount of money for It. But the idea to own an Island with a official currency called bitcoins sounds awesome would like to visit It :)

Just buying an island or buying and island and declaring it an independent country are two very different things. No country would accept that.

IMHO the way to do it is to build something like Sealand, only much bigger of course.

http://sometimesinteresting.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/sealand-1.jpg

It's funny how the euro was already inflated to 80% of its value by the time it was in active use. Since it only officially released on 2002

Also, look how stable all these currencies are compared to each other. YES OF COURSE they are stable relative to each other, they're all in free fall!

You would either need a very big army or have to know about some old country laws you can exploit to claim some unclaimed land and declare it a sovereign nation. And then wait until you're accepted by the other countries.

And there lies your problem. Why should they accept you? Just look at what's happening in Libya and Ukraine, it isn't easy to convince other nations of the validity of your claims.

But if you literally build a nation from scratch in international waters, then you are not stepping on anyones toes, thus making it easier to be accepted. My own personal utopian dream is that this is Satoshi's grand plan when one bitcoin is valued at one million USD (at 2014 USD value).

That is the best way of doing it, IMO. Invading another nation is not a viable idea nowadays, as most of the world nations either have powerful armies, or are allied to nations which are having powerful armies.

And happy to be part of the next big thing, hopefully HAHA

One thing I regret is selling 300+ BTC way ahead of time...

my prediction: (remember where you heard it first)


Predictions this far in the future are unreliable, but i still think i'll be pretty close.

$5k in August? ;D

What are you smokin this morning

Rolling weed in paper wallets :D

they would still need to accept you, it doesn't matter if you create your own island by digging up sand and mud from the ocean depths and dump it somewhere else in the ocean. It doesn't even matter if you would claim the moon as your own personal country. Or build a country from space debris. As long as other countries don't recognize you as a country, you're simply not a country, period.

By looking at this : https://i.imgur.com/8a9CVD7.png . I must say it looks way to good to be ignored. I just cant get it off my mind :D So good graph.

I don't think it's for certain that loads of people will become millionaires. The opposite could also happen and people become poor after they wasted their time, but I hope this doesn't happen.

I used another graph, but similar.

It may seem outrageous now, but let's see in 2 year how much of my predictions become truth or not.

Well, as most of the bitcoin holders are actually playing the day-to-day trading game, I don't really think we'll see that much millionaires guys here

Yeah lets hope this doesn't happen!  ;)

I think most of the bitcoin holders are just doing that and holding rather than trading.

That's why it's called hodling.

But hell of a lot of people trade daily.

I cant see this happening unless a flaw or something is found. Bitcoin will be around for a while yet.

If 1 bitcoin is valued at $1 million then one satoshi would be worth 1 cent.  Coincidence? I think not.

Man, I hope that becomes true at some point. I'd be a millionaire!  :D I think 1 million per coin is a bit far fetched though.

Why's it farfetched? There's enough satoshis for everyone ;D

We are the 0.1%

Some of us are poor.

Doubt 10 BTC would be enough to become a millionaire but 100 might be.

Final price is going to be at least $100k. Possibly within 5 years or less. Likely less, in fact.

I like this prediction!
It's extremely bullish of course, but at least you also try to predict the "downs" after the bubble tops.
Even though, as I said elsewhere, I see 5000 as such a commonly used value for the next bubble that I think bitcoin will do its thing and surpass it  ;D

What about 41.193725231 BTC?

That's the folly of looking at a logarithm based price graph.  Look at a linear price graph to see what actually happened.  Not saying it won't go up a lot in the future but I really really REALLY doubt were gonna see 5k in August.

I dont think so !

Willy bot working hard to rise up the bitcoin price, and trying to adapt us to the new level price,
but this will be short term, and after that coming final fall and bitcoin the end.
Bistamp or or any other exchange will be shutdown.
(mining factor will be below 1 cents per GH at 24hr)

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7126/vtmsd.jpg (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/vtmsd.jpg/)View Screen Capture (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/vtmsd.jpg/)

When I got into bitcoin my stance was invest now and wait for a few years and see what it will bring. Most people said I was a fool and others said it would be great but they didn't enter.
I also stated I would get out in 2020 just before all coins were mined.
Also I will partially step out if I can buy a nice house here in Europe (with pool) and live the life I would love to live (this still includes working cos I like my work), a half million Euro should be enough ;).
If my perfect scenario pays off I will be doing 2 international vacations per year and skinnydipping in my pool after work :D

Looking at these predictions I will be a multimillionaire in 2016 and possibly a billionaire in 2020 :D

I'm loving this bear market and hope some of these preditions pay off :)

coins will keep being mined until about 2140, not 2020.  Not sure where you got this misinformation from.

I'm not looking but i guess igorr has some kind of red/blue chart with some crazy story about bitcoin going to 0 again.

am i right?

Depends on how long you wait. Let's hope it makes you a millionaire in 2017 ;)

trolling obviously... not sure why though

I have a different way of thinking that seems to be boring everyone.
Every bitcent is important.

If BTC was spread equally to just 1 Billion people then everyone would have 0.02

Crypto has a lot of room to grow but let's not assume that bitcoin will always be number 1...

maybe boring people cause its been said many times before....
and its just another way of saying supply is limited.

I would really like to believe you, but do not keep all your hopes pinned on that happening.

Bitcoin may turn out to be Myspace. 10-20 years is a long time.

Bitcoin is first but doesn't mean its best, i agree with u. Maybe some of better and more perfect alt coins will take over eventually .

Just not the ones with stupid names LOL . Flappycoin , troll coin , farmcoin ... LOL !!!

in fact 0.1 BTC might be enough.

Might is the keyword here.

Good , coz that is all i have atm . So there MIGHT be a chance for me to become millionaire :)
Tnx for cheering me up dude :) .

Technically true but the coins mined after 2020 will be in diminutively small amounts.

still will be 112 coins a day in 2035

Do you mean, "Six of one, half a dozen of the other..."?

Kind of the same meaning as one of my favorites: "Same difference."

test message ignore

I was wondering where you got the numbers from, and there is my chart! How cool is that :P.

I was just playing around and it was just uncanny how nicely all the peaks followed an exponential trend (all bar the early April peak).

We'll know soon enough anyway... ;)

10-20 years?? Omg what is this ridiculous permabear bitcoin hater doing here?

That prediction is a bit hefty, don't you think? I agree that bitcoin is going places, but that doesn't mean it is going to (or has to) become the world reserve currency. One step at a time here, folks....

It's an interesting prediction, but more as an absolute upper bound of how much a Bitcoin can ever be worth. We're lucky if we reach ~5% of that ($50k-$60k), but that would still be pretty good.

Bitcoin is not JUST money. It's also a store of value (digital gold), a payment protocol and a digital safe that can be made as strong as you want it to be. The potential upper bound for bitcoins value is all the wealth in the world.

Thirty years ago if you'd said we'd all have multiple computers each and 90% of them would run one OS people would have thought you mad.

Fifteen years ago if you'd said google would control over 70% of searches people would have doubted you.

five years ago if you'd said Android (which was released 6 years ago) would be on 80% of peoples phones they'd have laughed at that too.

Certain technology takes off

We're all just hoping we've hitched our wagons to the right rocket. (to mangle a phrase)

On top of that, adoption of change is getting faster and faster. Look at what Netflix has done as an alternative to paid cable in less than a decade. And then there's amazon, which has gutted many different markets by keeping things cheap and simple to buy. Disruptive technologies which help the consumer save money catch on really fast. This is why I think the remittance sector will be the first on btc's hit list.

Yep, but by the same token another coin could come along, zip right past us and make gazillionaires out of some other crowd.

Let's just hope it's not the dogecoiners lol

No it can't. You can't just "zip past" 100 petahashes per second.

People said no one could overthrow myspace as the number one social network site.

Apples and oranges, you don't seem to understand how it works.

And the average Myspace user invested zero and switching sites was a case of a few clicks.

It's not quite the same scenario.

I know that, but my point is with technology no one really knows what's going to happen.

Pretty sure we were meant to be flying to work 20 something years ago, wearing silver suits and all our food came in pill form by now.

^^ I'm waiting for a time machine. ;D

True indeed, but when enough people have enough of their own money involved it becomes a powerful incentive to stick with something that's good enough.

I guess the next 3 years or so will show us what's what.

Not to mention the millions of dollars invested in infrastructure around bitcoin, (and litecoin is leeching of some of it), unlike all the other coins.

MySpace did not have all that infrastructure around it.

Imagine if a new coin would arise. All the merchant acceptance would have to start over from scratch. Not likely to happen.

Yeah it would be rly hard for any altcoin to get to where btc is now. There are already better coins but its hard to switch .
Bitcoin cant die , like zimmah said, there is to much into infrastructure, to many people and business accepting and using it, it got and its gaining momentum and then its nearly impossible to stop it.

No there aren't. They take what bitcoin devs have created and copy it with a marketing twist for a quick pump and dump, then discarded. Bitcoin is actually developed. As soon as bitcoin implements side chains, all altcoins become irrelevant, instantly.

Altcoins are actually only useful (apart from speculation) as testing grounds for wild, silly, dangerous ideas which are not in bitcoin. Good ideas then get into bitcoin core. There's no "better" coin, as no coin is static and all can be changed to the 'better' one's code. So the only "better" coin is the more reliable one.

There is no reason why someone can't create another crypto currency with a higher limit.  Simple 'divide US dollars by 21 million bitcoins = $$$$$ WIN' calculations are far to simplistic.

All altcoins are a scam.

1 million dollars for a bitcoin is unimaginable in the current days, but if we look at the past,
when the value was less than 1$, who would have bet on today prices?

When the value was below $1 saying that bitcoin will be worth $100 one day was a funny joke. As it is now with 6+ digits. Not all jokes come true, but some do...

And there is no reason why someone would create alt coin with higher limit. Coz when btc gets to high we can just start using mBTC, uBTC and finally satoshi , there is more than enough units of bitcoin.

I really hope that will be the case, it's a really hopefull prediction.
However it's still a prediction and before it becomes reality, we have a long way to go.
But yeh im trying to atleast get 10 bitcoins, and hopefully more.
Because I believe that prediction can become reality

The only catch is, 10-20 years is a long time.

In the summer of 2004 , the marines invaded falluja. I remember that ridiculous hell like it was yesterday. 10 years will go by very quick my friend.

it would surprise me if it would take that long in the first place

might be closer to 6-7.

Was kind of just murmuring the same thing to myself after reading that...lol..

Don't think BTC will ever replace the USD...but truly running along side of it as a better version of the USD, would be just as amazing.

there is simply no way bitcoin will not replace fiat.
all fiat currencies are in the final years of their lifetime and are being printed to oblivion, the world fiat experiment is about to end in failure any year now.
if bitcoin didn't exist i would say the world would go back to gold, but bitcoin beats gold in every way:

bitcoin is more easily divisible than gold - bitcoin divides down to a unit of 10^-8 bitcoin, try that with gold.
bitcoin is more durable than gold - gold coins can be damaged, gold can be confiscated by force.
bitcoin is more portable than gold - you can instantly send your bitcoins anywhere in the world for next to nothing, transporting gold is alot more complicated.
bitcoin is more fungible than gold - there are no fake bitcoins, verifying gold authenticity requires special equipment.
bitcoin maintains its purchasing power - bitcoins mining is predictable and limited, gold mining isn't as predictable, this means bitcoin has less supply side fluctuations than gold.

for 5000 years the free market has selected gold as money.
this is the first time in history humanity has something better, most of the world is not aware of this fact yet but they are starting to wake up.
anyone who jumps on the bitcoin train right now will be filthy rich when the masses start arriving.

thx for the hope  :D

i believe you're right...its just a question of when.

Bitcoin on Almost Human Sci-fi TV Series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8LqlMzEe-I

(Is this the future?  ;D)

In death, a member of Project Mayhem has a name.


His name was Robert Paulson.

His name was Robert Paulson.

just about every forum is full of millionaires

oh and his name was Robert Paulson.

His name was Robert Paulson.

His name was Paul Robertson.

His name was Robert Robinson

Its rly rly rly fcn long time in bitcoin world.

Hence the phrase HODL!!.. HODL men and women, HODL.  We live a lot longer than 10-20 years.  With any luck(i'm 28) I'll own a golf course by 38 due to my holdings in BTC.  I plan to never retire.. that's boring. Even if BTC utterly collapses and I go to plan B I'll go to a stress free job at 60 till I die.

Such a nice plan. I have similar one. But i cant buy any btc so my plan is starting from sending an .1 btc to cold storage everymonth till it rises high enough. :)

His name was Robert Patterson.

I'm in my mid 40s so I feel I can't wait 10 years...I'll be old then :(

Then the good news is that it will only take 5 years at most unless something catastrophic happens. 3 being more likely.

sure hope you're right, that's why I keep buying more BTC at every opportunity; the more I have, the sooner I'll reach the amount that I need to fulfil my dreams :) When I bought my 1st one, I only intended to buy one, then it was 2, then 3......

Exactly right.  The key to bitcoin riches is buying and holding as much as you can, as every bitcoin is a multiplier of wealth.  Don't wait to 6-12 months from now when it costs more, buy what you can now (but never leveraged or on credit, avoid this).  And keep buying on the major dips.  The day traders think the key to long term wealth is day trading the swings.  Nope.  It's acquiring as much btc as humanly possible.

You know what, I think you're lucky to be in your mid 40s.
I'm still in uni and really can't buy more than what I have now, which is already little.
At least you already are at a stable age and can buy accordingly :)

45 to 55 is crossing the chasm to elderliness? You'd still have a lake full of piss and vinegar at that age.

I think we'll have a strong idea of where all this is heading a long time before then.

Well that can also create problems. If lots of people buy loads of btc and only hold to them , bitcoin price will not go up. Bitcoin needs movement for the price to go up.

I only got involved in mid January this year, but I suppose that was better than getting involved when it was $1200 per coin. I think my average is around $740 - not long until I break even :)

We'll get movement when we hit $1000 again. Then the media coverage will start.

Never thought of it like that but it's a good point.

Oh yeah. When it hit 1000$ media coverage in serbia started and that is how i heard about it and got on the train. :)

How many of you guys have 10+ coins? I just started in april and have 8 coins, you guys are saying I should buy more? I feel pretty good about my average buy in and have already made more than 1k. I also still feel that if bitcoin goes big 8 is enough to make money and if bitcoin tanks then losing the 8 will hurt but I will live kinda thing.


How many do most people recommend? (besides the buy buy buy all you can)

Depends what your risk tolerance is, how much money you want to make, and how much you believe in bitcoin. 

It depends, would you be sorry if it all went to zero? You should put as much into bitcoins as you don't mind losing.

edit: too late

I believe in BTC but want the money sooner rather than later. I could make do with a few but I'd have to wait longer, so I'm prepared to bear more risk.

I've ended up with more than I was initially planning to buy. It wouldn't destroy me if it all fell apart but it would be rather sucky.

The more I've looked into it, the less interesting conventional investments seem to me. That might be a slippery slope. I probably haven't stopped buying yet.

If the loss of the money you put in doesn't make you sweat at night then that's a good start. The amount you've chosen is a good balance. It has a chance to pay off big a while down the line if all goes well without being an insane amount to lay out.

I've chosen to sweat a little more.

I'd rather lose what I have in than know I could have had hundreds of thousands or more if only I'd taken the risk. This way the most I can lose is a few thousand, but if it turned out right & I hadn't invested, I'd have lost the opportunity for a potential fortune.

Although we are all eventually hoping for 1 btc > 100k, I think a much more realistic medium term goal is 10k per coin.  So if you want to your bitcoin stash to be worth $100,000 you would need 10 coins.  If that's not enough for you, buy more  :)

or beggars.

or gazzilionaires.

I would be really happy to have 10...
As others said: spend only what you can afford to lose.
And I'd add: only that, but all of that ;)

Buy buy buy all you can.

No, seriously. It's pretty much certain that the value will keep going up for a while longer. Possibly way up. The only real problem is keeping your private keys safe, which for most of us is doable. The economic side is a no brainer.

Not for long.

That "pretty certan" cam go teribly wrong. So i would suggest only invest what u can afford to lose. Bitcoin market is kinda like gambling.

Btw i have only .1 btc , most i had vas 1.2btc. But i never bought any and never mined.

This guy is right! it is absolutely dangerous to develop a mindset like that. NOTHING is certain! NEVER invest more than you are comfortable with losing. NEVER. EVER!!!

Yes the current people that owns more than 10 btcs are quite low.. and once the bitcoin surpasses 2,000 usd there will be a little people with more than 1 and so on.

Go in with only what you're "willing to lose" on the most promising investment of our lifetime and walk away with $200 profit when it happens. Yawn.

Or invest a reasonably large amount and retire when it happens (which it probably will). Worst case, you're set back a couple months on your savings. I think I'll take door #2, please.

Or go and live the rest of your life in the gutter when the magic internet money fails and you can't pay back the loan you took to buy it. If you are willing to take that risk, then by all means, do it.

There's a difference been being totally unable to afford the loss and it being a hit to your financial future and life going on. I'll take a bit of discomfort for potential returns.

Those going down the loan route are bonkers.

heh, I definitely don't encourage taking loans or cashing out the 401k, but the oft quoted line "don't invest more than you're willing to lose!" makes it sound like this is a spin on the roulette wheel, when in fact we're going into a bull market now and chances are very good that a bubble of epic proportions will take off in the next few weeks. It's not guaranteed of course, but I'm willing to bet more than 2% of my savings (or whatever "experts" are suggesting) on the likelihood of it happening.

Here's my advice:
GO ALL IN

Don't pussy foot it around, you are already late. Making 200$ profit is lame, 2k is lame too. Here's your lifetime opportunity to make a shit load of wealth, don't just test it to see if it really works, you will not get another chance. Paper money has always been worthless, start with that basic knowledge.

BE THE OPPORTUNISTIC DOG:
http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/193069-6/Sledding-opportunistic-dog.gif

Take a student loan if you must. Anything that is not too hard-core to get you in jail. If it all fails you should not have your life or freedom at risk but everything else if needed.

"keeping an eye on the price" is a shit excuse for not buying. But I must admit, I waited 2 months before I bought my first bitcoins at the price of 4.5$ each. And I regretted for not buying when they were 4. Now my friends consider me the most successful high risk investor in my puny little frog pool country.

But then again, one should only give advice when asked. no one asked me and if they did I'd say "you're on your own" :P

Sure, I'm in the same boat. But it still is a gamble in the end though, if it wasn't, there wouldn't be a possibility for profit either :)

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter  ;D

Many wealthy folks went through a few bankrupt businesses before starting the one that ultimately succeeded.  One example is Donald Trump.  You only fail when you stop trying.

EVplus . Iam all in and I spend 30percent of my income on food and 70 percent on Btc .that's how u do it guys . Btc is best oportunity of century .best money ever invented and u think it will somehow fail .wake up !

I agree, it definitely is a once in a lifetime opportunity & I didn't pussy foot around when I first heard about BTC, I bought the very next day.

I only wait for a Delorean. I don't need the flux condenser. ;)

I would just hate to see a forum full of Veronica26 clones instead of millionaires...

I personally let the rocket fly without me back in late 2010, if I hadn't, I would have been filthy rich by now. I've had many sleepless nights since. Back then you would be called a delusional idiot on this forum if you really thought that it would ever go to 100USD :-\ I have now put more money into bitcoins than I like to admit, but at least I will not end up on the street if it really tanks.

I wasn't trying to start a forum war, was just trying to get more opinions. I don't really like the statement "invest only what you are willing to lose" Does anyone want to lose money here? I would also like to clarify again that I have 8 coins with an average buy in around 500 (cause of the last couple of coins) so I have already made over 1k. I think people will always say damn I should have went all in when/if bitcoin skyrockets.

I only learned of bitcoin because a friend told me his sad story about how he was going to invest in 1k when it was really low then it sky rocketed, he could have made a lot of money. I planned on spending 5k but that was back when it was hovering at 420 for a long time and even went down to 350, so I thought maybe bitcoin was going to tank. So I have slowly bought more coins

I could put more money in and I know it would be a risk but is the risk vs investment worth it esp when I already have 8 coins. When then would I at least get my original investment back?

Did. Done. took a loan to reach my minimum coin count. Buying all the way up to 1500. Let's revisit this thread in a year. (whoever necro bumps it by then, please pm me)

You've kicked off an interesting exchange rather than a war. What are your own wants from this? Do you want to just make a decent gain over the course of months to a year or see where it goes in the long haul?

I salute your bravery and truly hope you will earn a shitload of wealth!  :)

Crimea.

I'm with Hyena on this one.  Spent 15 years of my life "playing it safe" and conservative, and it got me nowhere really. While other more daring risk takers during that time made a killing.  No more for me, I've flipped the switch.  Bitcoin will either prove to be the game changing technology and cryptocurrency that many believe it will be, or it will go down to zero.  And I guess if that happens I'll ride it down along with millions of others.  But I just don't see that as the outcome, at least not for the next 3-5 years.  It's going to turn the world of finance on it's head.  And I'm strapped in.

Well I would def consider myself in for the longer run. I work at boeing in seattle/renton area in WA state and have barely a year in, right now I make $17 and in 5 years will jump up to the max pay which will be around 35$ an hour. My credit isn't great but I have been working on it and will be looking to buy a house middle/end of 2016. At that time I would be making close to 20$ an hour and hopefully bitcoin has been good to me so I could use some money for a nice down payment for a house. Depending on how high it goes my house could include a batcave. My gf (prolly wife in a couple of years) makes 40k now, so end of 2016 we will probably have about 80k+ year income. I also have student loan debt to pay off so bitcoin going up could also help me take care of all/most of that. Nice decent house around 250-350k seems like an attainable goal esp if bitcoin goes 5-10k a coin or more that some people speculate.

So basically in 2-3 years I would like to have some money for a house and then with the rest I would be going along for the ride. Maybe continuing to buy more, but I am def considering buying more coins now just want to watch what the price does.

Great post.  I think a lot of us here may be like this.  At least those of us in the 30+ age range.  My best friend is a wealth advisor for ameriprise and has gone the "warren buffet" route (extremely slow returns, gradual, but guaranteed) and he still struggles to do all the things he wants to do.  I was the same way, and when Bitcoin came, something just made me change.  Threw caution to the wind.  I said "f*ck it" and started buying and buying and buying at $80.00.  Friends calling me crazy.   I actually felt like a total fool at the time.  But it became like an addiction.  The more I read about it, the more something inside me *knew* this was going somewhere.  One of my only super powers is shit like this.  I know when I see something that is going to be huge.  Even if everyone around me says it wont.  I have yet to be wrong.  I just have *never* taken the leap because I was afraid to take the risk.   I literally was in the sales office of a new condo complex in 2003 ready to buy as the housing boom was getting started.  It was a gamble.  And I didn't take it.  I could have purchased a place for $120,000 that sold for $750,000 less than a year and a half later.   I *always* miss the boat.  And I always know I'm missing it.  But never had the balls to go for it.  

This time I am "all in".  Because this time I listened to my intuition and decided to take the risk on it.

-B-

I'm just like you. Something, I don't know what, just seemed to tell me that this was the thing that was going to change my life. It's now an addiction for me too; I have no idea how many hours I have spent reading about BTC since January, but it's a LOT. Still, if this isn't a contradiction to what I've just wrote, I won't really believe it until it actually happens & I can buy & do the things I've always wanted to.

I know exactly what you mean.  I have passed on other opportunities in my past, and they have always come back to remind me what an idiot I am.  

My dad passed on a $300K beachfront 3-story house in Charleston, SC in 1997.  That same house now goes for $5.5M.  He also passed on being an early investor in 1986 in a little known company that makes computer operating systems and office software... maybe you know the one?  Hehe.  He also passed early on a little known company where you could rent movies on VHS tape and take them home to watch.  Guess who?

From now on, I'm not gonna be that guy.

interesting...I had this feeling, but not too often. I wonder if a significant percentage of bitcoiners have this possibly genetic trait.
We might be the upcoming X-men...I kid, I kid.
Some theoretical background of the future affecting the past (Aharonov, etc):
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2012/aug/03/can-the-future-affect-the-past

Let me know what else your dad is not investing in  ;D
(dont worry, my dad bought facebook, so I know what your going through :( )

haha

Most here won't resist the temptation to spend. Very few here will actually be millionaires.

Getting out will definitely be the hardest thing to do. I know how much I need to build the house I want, but if & when it reaches that price, I'm gonna be wondering should I hold on, not just to get enough for the house, but in case it goes much higher & enables me to have a higher standard of living. I'd hate to get out at say $50,000 & have to work hard to pay the bills & then see it go to $100,000 or way above. Getting out will be much harder than getting in.

Yeah that is what made most of miners to sell on 50$ , u will always think this profit is good enough. U need to sell at some point but when , that is the 1M$ question.

Sell regularly as price hits new highs.  Aim to keep your total withdrawals at around 10% of the fiat values of your Bitcoins.  Do not buy back in with the withdrawn funds when price drops and you will be protected from a complete failure of Bitcoin.  This gives you most of the price appreciation and some protection in case we suddenly go to 0.

This means any new fiat you receive should go 90% to BTC, and any increases in BTC price should result in a sell of 10% of the profit due to the increase.

I've already taken my profits. No matter what, I've got more than what I put in out of it. It's binary for me now. It either works, or it doesn't. Either I'm rich, or not. Fuck it, let's go.

Im all in as well.  Invested $10k in the $400 range and will keep buying and using btc.  Im 35 and have disposable income.  Im tired of playing it safe.

That is proving to be a very nice entry to the market now. Do you plan on day trading with any of your investment, perhaps leverage using alts? Or are you holding for the long game?

Long.  I want to sell half in 2 years towards a new house.  Or hopefully I can use them instead of having to convert to fiat.  The rest will be held for at least 10 years. 

I'm thinking of taking a huge fucking loan but i'm kinda afraid that my money will get stuck in limbo somewhere/scammed.

I like this article a lot :) I didn't know that Amazon had anything bitcoin-related planned. Hopefully, it'll help bring forward the day when we all celebrate being millionaires  ;D

http://www.benzinga.com/tech/14/06/4605694/actions-by-3-fortune-500-companies-signal-bitcoins-price-may-surge-in-2014

I too am worried that my BTC will be stolen. I keep worrying that my private keys will be bruteforced.

Make an offline electrum wallet. Only way to steal them like that is with physical access to the hardware. And at that point they still need to get past your hopefully strong password (14+ characters, upper and lower case letters, numbers, as random as you can safely remember).

Brute forcing a wallet based solely on the public address would literally require more energy than is contained in the sun. Nonissue.

Then purchase the coins in smaller amount. You don't have to go "all in" on one purchase.

You're still stuck on this?

Why? 

It's completely illogical. I explained the math to you in detail and why it's for all intents and purposes impossible.

I don't understand it either, I have 9 coins with coinbase and if it gets hacked robbed natural disaster I lose all my coins like there was never anything there?

Please do yourself a favor and keep your BTC on a paper wallet or some form of cold storage. You will never have to worry about Coinbase being hacked, or your account itself being compromised, or losing your 2FA. Use BIP38 encryption and make sure to remember the password. Store backups of your private keys in multiple redundant locations as a hedge against natural disasters. Always test with a small amount of BTC first until you are confident in sending to paper wallets and importing private keys to your wallet to spend.

1. boot Tails
2. https://bitaddress.org
3. go offline
4. print

Yep.  Keeping all your coins on coinbase is waiting to get goxxed.
Must educate oneself on cold storage.  Pain in the butt maybe
But the reward is peace of mind and security. Well worth the effort.

coinbase uses cold storage. (They aren't going to get hacked)

Speaking of such things, go to coinbase and talk to them. They have a support person there 24/7 to answer all these question. The charge quite a bit in fees but they handle all of the 'cold storage' for you .

I suggest the use of BitGo.  You get 3 keys, and need 2 of them to spend the money.  They keep one in a secure server.  You keep one offline as a backup.  You keep the last and access it by password on your web browser (client-side).  BitGo only ever sees the first one, and thus cannot spend your money.  You always have access to 2 keys so if BitGo disappears, you still keep your money.  What BitGo offers is the ease of a hot wallet with the security of cold storage.

I agree with what a lot of people here seem to be saying, I believe we'll see a 100K + btc value way sooner then 10-20 years. Try more like 1-5. Things are about to skyrocket in the bitcoin and altcoin world. Major new money is getting ready to get into this market and once that happens you can expect to see some serious movement in the up direction. The same we saw from $50-$1200. I hope you have your DCM BTC and LTC safely secured.

I have spoken with their chat and was going to say the same thing. First thing that came to mind when I read the posts about paper wallet/cold storage is how can bitcoin succeed if a company like Coinbase can not be trusted. Then secondly I am pretty savy tech and spend a lot of time on my pc, but with the little research I have about zero clue how or why I would want to set up a cold storage/paper wallet. For 1 it seems like a hassle and 2 at this point I am a little more concerned with me losing the coins than coinbase. Then finally if someone like me doesn't want to deal with it or fully understand it how can bitcoin be widespread if everyone has go through with the multiple back ups and doing this and that What about the people who no zero or are not tech savy at all?

Shit I can't even find my thumb drive with my bootleg copy of Office 2010 (guess I should have backed it up onto 5 different drives and put them in different places with special maps to remember the locations)

In theory you are right, the industry will need to evolve to the point where there are reliable bitcoin banks.  However, things are still very immature as far as security, best practices, protocols, etc. also coinbase is tiny compared to large banks, not insured necessarily.

And yes, your coins may be safer with them than yourself if you don't know what you're doing.  The die hards will prefer to secure their own coins.  As far as trusted third parties, coinbase seems good...just be clear that you are in fact trusting your money to a third party....maybe meanwhile you can wade into the waters of learning bitcoin self storage.

Another thing (correct me if I'm wrong) is if my coins are all offline I can't just go and sell in a hurry if it shoots up or down. I would have to be home or whatever with my 5 backups and then have to load it all up to coinbase site to be able to sell. Right now I log in with any pc and a quick text to my phone with the coinbase verification I am on coinbase site buying selling making millions.

If there is a easy secure way to keep my coins then fill me in

Agreed! I work in bioinformatics, I work on a $500,000 cluster computer for a living and I stare at a linux terminal 50 hours a week. That said, I STILL don't want to handle cold storage on my own. (was also a programmer for 2 years!) If you want adoption, I wouldn't discourage folks from using such services.

It's just not something I can handle having ~6,000$ on a piece of paper somewhere.

Hodl forever until Bitcoin is a worldwide currency. Then you won't have to sell for USD. ;)

I think it is fine to rely on third party services to store your coins, as long as you realize that as things currently stand right now it is nowhere as safe as storing your fiat in a bank or brokerage account.

Put it another way, if you have BTC savings worth many times the Linux cluster you use at work would you still store the coins in Coinbase?

http://www.bitgo.com is a multi-sig service.  Imagine a safe-deposit box.  There are 3 keys, and you need 2 of them to open the box.  Bitgo keeps only 1, so you are safe from their screw-ups.  But that one, along with a password hash approach to a key you have offers the safety of cold storage with the convenience of accessing your Bitcoins from any internet-connected device.

but that does not solve the problem of the user storing the private keys, which is the weak link. so it makes absolutely no sense, you can just as well store private key yourself and dont send any money to third party, because either way, if your bitgo keys are stolen, your bitcoins are, too. they are assuming you will have one key really secret and the other available, but this can only be suggested for users who know how to keep a key secret, in the first place.

there is only one way to store bitcoins securely for somebody who does not understand anything about computer security, and that is create an offline wallet (paper or otherwise) and send coins to it, without spending. for spending, use something like coinbase with small amounts.

You can store the private keys in a safe deposit box.  Yet you still can access your funds with one password plus Bitgo's key.  Safe and usable.

Online wallets are BAD.

Yes, traditional online wallets are very bad.  Bitgo is not one of these.

Does bitgo explain the user how to print out and save their secret key without it ever appearing on an internet-connected computer? I am afraid they don't, hardly possible.

In that sense, it's not much different from blockchain, which has a second pass. If the server is compromised / xss anything so that their part of the key can be used - only one user's key is needed to spend your money. So it is as secure as the server or the user, again, meaning, vulnerable.

Yes, they do.  It's printed without being displayed to the screen.


Two keys are needed for the money to be spent.  This is multi-sig.  Please research before commenting.  This is not just a backup key.

Right, I need two keys to spend, so either I get both keys from the user, or hack user's browser to send a spend command with the stored key to the bitgo server (which conveniently adds their second key).

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for convinient solutions, people just need to understand that *any* online wallet is vulnerable to theft, because the server, your machine, and connection between them are all weak links.

It is ok to keep some change on bitgo or blockchain or coinbase, any 2FA wallet basically, but they don't approach cold storage in terms of deposit security.

Both keys from the user: That would require accessing his safe deposit box.

Hack user's browser to capture the password: That would require accessing the 2FA code sent to your mobile phone.  If you saw the code sent to your phone and you didn't initiate a spend, you'd know your password was compromised.  You'd move to a new wallet immediately.  The hacker wouldn't be able to do anything before you could move to the new wallet as he'd need that code.

Oh, they also use phone 2FA? That would be interesting, but I didn't see anything about that in the settings. Anyway, if you are paying from the phone sms is not an answer too, there were already real world cases of bitcoin hesists from compromised phones where both 2FA and wallet were on the same device.

The answer there is not to enter the password from the 2FA device.  Login from another computer or phone.  To do otherwise defeats the meaning of "2 Factor".

yea I'm even more confused with the last page of posts and that is why I will probably be keeping all my coins in/at Coinbase.

You must understand then that you don't actually own them. Same as money in the bank. Read about mtGox. When you dont own the private key of your address, you don't have the coins.

I understand what you explained to me, but the one thing that still bothers me is this. As an example, if I told you my password, key etc to something was 6 digits long & that those 6 digits were all between 1-6, you'd be able to work it out a lot quicker than if I told you there were 6 digits chosen randomly from all across the computer keyboard. Surely the same would apply for a bitcoin private key - a supercomputer would more easily bruteforce keys made from the throw of a dice, than those made from any keyboard key. Am I wrong? I hope I am.

Actually they are great to use them as hot wallets (fast wallets) , and small amounts.
They are much faster. No need to waitvfor sync. Ajd if u do 2fa they are pretty safe to. But ofc always save ur keys.

Electrum doesn't need syncing...

Nor multibit. It's not realistic to expect everyone to download dozens of gigabytes and hundreds of megs every day going forward. The future is light wallets that go through big nodes.

Yes, you are wrong!

Like I said before, it doesn't matter if the key is derived from coinflips, dice rolls, or characters.
2^160 is the same size as 6^64... Is the same size as 10^49.... Is the same thing as 62^28.
In the end it's all the same huge number of combinations.....and when you really break things down
Inside how computers work, it's all 0 and 1 at the end of the day.

Since you seem to have trouble grasping this, imagine your password was only 2 characters  long, from a possible choice of 62 chars (26 uppercase letters, 26 lowercase and digits 0-9).  Your total combinations would be 62x62. That's 3844.  Now imagine I also offered you instead, the choice of 5 dice rolls.  That's 6x6x6x6x6.  That's 7776 combinations.  Almost double than with the characters.

Yes. Especially the people who aren't so good with computers.
We that know more don't mind using bitcoin-qt :D

But if my password was only 3 digits made from the numbers 1-6, anybody could crack it with a pen & paper, but if it was made from every character on the keyboard, it would be a LOT harder for them to do so. Do you see what I mean? But I trust what you're saying, so I won't generate new addresses; my BTC have been in there over 2 months so far & haven't been stolen. Let's hope it stays that way. I presume your phrase 'inside how computers work, it's all 0 and 1' may be the bit I don't understand. I've never had a computer lesson in my life!

You're right that more choices (characters vs dice rolls) give you more combinations given the same exponent.  But that's why you roll the dice 64 times. It's a heck of a lot of combinations.

Why not roll the dice 1000 times?  Because 64 is all you need.  There's only 6^64 bit coin addresses!

and to put it in perspective, amount of different 64 dice roll combinations is approximately equal to the number of atoms comprising our planet earth. so imagine you hide your wallet as one atom somewhere inside the planet's core and sleep well.

I would tend to agree that this forum has quite a few millionaires, or future millionaires (at least).  Not necessarily saying that they will be a millionaire due to BTC alone, but mainly because most of the people that have had the foresight to put a decent amount of money into this (as early as possible), are also very active in making their other money "work for them."

I would go out on a limb and say that at least 80-90% of the people here that have 15k or more invested in BTC, also have several other investments going on at the same time (i.e. real estate, precious metals, stocks, annuities, etc).

And...if they haven't already done that, then investing in BTC has opened their eyes in investing in other markets.   

Let's see how everything plays out concerning regulations!

Thanks to all who replied. I had all this explained to me back in March when I put my BTC into cold storage. I was perfectly happy with that until someone on here (I can't remember who) told me a few days ago that my BTC were not safe at all & would be stolen in a few weeks, if not a few days.

If you used a less than random method of creating your private key, like a password, it is possible for the password to be brute-forced with a dictionary attack.  Those using a brain wallet with a short password are susceptible to this.  Just use a randomly generated private key and you are fine as long as you keep that key safe.

Wrt this thread's title, anyone holding at least 1 Bitcoin can be considered a bitcoinaire.  It implies wealth.  The market price for BTC today is very undervalued.  So buy, but don't sell at anything less than a value that implies 1 BTC means wealth.

Yes even for the people who dont have enough money to buy lets say, 5,000 mBTC, if they buy just 500 mBTC they can make a good profit tough and thats not alot of money to invest ,  they will make a good sum of money when btc rises to 5 k or even 50 k.

I'm pretty sure I quoted a future beggar right here.

I might even give you a satoshi or two so you can buy bread once your fiat has became worthless.

Bitcoinaire.

I think you coined a new term. 

Pun intended.

Love it.

How many BTC do you think you need to be a bitcoinaire?  200-250BTC?

One.  The definition is not tied to any amount of fiat value.  It simple infers you are wealthy in Bitcoin.

Just one, but of course the more the merrier.

Just 1 ? U will die od aging before u become milionare. :)

Me? A beggar? Bitch please ;D

I've spent more BTC than you've ever seen.

Bitcoinarie is the new meme, all who have 10+ bitcoins in the future will be bitcoinaries, they will be worth hopefully 1m+ dollars.

Dont spend them!!! Hold to them and spend them in 10 years. :D

if you're going to do that, just make sure to use all the security features coinbase has available to you.

also you may want to enable 2 factor authentication on the email address linked to your coinbase account, i recently saw someone on reddit complaining about a hacker getting into their coinbase account after having their email compromised. and of course make sure to use a unique strong password...never use it anywhere else.

Personally, I'd never use 2FA unless I can use it with my phone.

Yes, Coinbase uses the Authy app, which can be installed on your smartphone.

Or u can set on blockchain.info 2fa with sms. And 2 passwords.

If the polls taken here are to be believed (and they could be as they were anonymous voting), 80-90% of people here own less than 10 BTC.

Very, very few own more.

But that doesn't have to matter much, if 1 BTC hits $100,000.

-B-

Anyone know how to set up a new poll (anonymous of course) so that we could see what the percentage of people with under/over 10 coins now is?

Just make sure that your phone does not become the single point of failure for all your life's affairs. Every time I travel to a different country where I have to use a different SIM card or phone I end up not being able to access half of my accounts.

I just ordered a yubikey. Seems like the perfect solution, sturdy and works all over the world.

From what I've gleaned from numerous polls on here and plenty of comments the large majority has less, often way less, than one coin. And a surprising number of well-established posters have stated that they have tiny amounts.

I was listening to an interview on the radio today. The operator of Bittylicious, one of the best BTC and alt buying services in the UK, has 20 coins to his name. Perhaps interest and commitment doesn't relate to investment as often as we think.

Sounds crazy to me. I have a bit over 10 and think it's too little. Really want 20, and ideally 30. If for no other reason than the SSS plan will have reduced my coin count to a third by the time we hit a million, and half even at 100k.

I have 22.5

I am aiming for 100 by 2015

The first rule of bitcoin hodling is we do not speak of the bitcoins we hodl.

Why?
Let's say you have 22.5 BTC and BTC becomes 100k or more. You will possibly become a target for hackers or gangsters, people kill for less...

Just some stupid advice ....

My mistake.

Every publicly exposed bitcoin thief seems to be walking around completely unharmed and they often have tens of thousands of coins or more and a very compelling reason to be slaughtered.

You may not want those who are around you to know though just for the sake of a quiet life.

True I was expecting Mark Karpeless to be the first person to be killed by a Russian drug lord that had BTC in MtGOX...

Anyway, even though it's fun to say you have a lot of bitcoin, you wouldnt want your life to end before you get to spend it.


P.S. I do think Mark should pay for his incompetence but I do not believe he should be killed for it. I luckily had $0 in MtGOX.

Sure. That's why we care about digital security. And with that kind of money I can hire guards so whatever. More importantly, we do not live in a James Bond movie. I am hereby officially betting my life that I won't need to worry more about my safety when I have millions than I do now. The far, exponentially bigger worry is the state, especially the taxman.

Yeah :D
There were people here who were talking about drilling bank deposit boxes.

We live in a world where anybody can hire american mercenaries to do almost anything. Why not blow up your car when u start the engine? C4, poof

'Murica!

Just move to Europe then. We're still okay here ;)

I have yet to tell a single person I know personally about BTC or that I have some. The only people I talk to about it are you lucky people on here  ;D I know I'm not exactly spreading the word but I prefer to keep quiet about it, just in case it becomes worth a lot some day.

That is rly smart of u. One day when u become milionere nobody will bother u. :) . Im not that smart. I got many of my friends into btc. :)

I told plenty of folks and bought them some too. If they do all gather around me and hack me into little chunks that's going to reflect rather poorly on them.

This sounds a lot like me! When I started with BTC I told a few people and they told me I'm an idiot. Nowadays I own 1k$ worth of BTC (A lot if you ask me!) and haven't told anyone, just laughing the shit out of me for them!

Very true.  Although I think it's pretty ironic that the majority are so sure and convinced that the bitcoin price will hit $50K, $100K or even $1M one day given enough time, but on the flip side are still too scared to invest any more of their money right NOW for fear of it going to $0.  Lol.  

I guess people just want to keep saying "shoulda, woulda, coulda" for the next 3-5 years because it makes them feel safe.

Well the only 'shoulda' I'll be saying is 'I shouldn't have bought so many' if it all goes wrong, but I'd rather lose a few thousands than know I'd missed out on the chance of hundreds of thousands or even millions. The downside is definitely limited but the upside sure isn't :)

Yep. Normally I would just have blown my money on a few months in Thailand or something. If it all goes to bust that's what I end up losing. If not, it could make me enough money to last a lifetime. Easy choice.

If the market cap of bitcoins will equal the Apple one, its value will be around 47000$ therefore we are really future millionaires  :)

And how likely is it that it will one day (hopefully in the not too distant future) equal the market cap of Apple?

I'd need a much higher market cap...
But Apple's would already make me quite happy!

I'd need a much higher market cap to make me a millionaire too (and that's not taking into account the tax I'd have to pay on my profits) :( You'd need 21.27 BTC to make $1m USD at that Apple market cap.

You would only owe tax on what you spend or sell.

Surely you wouldn't convert your coins back to fiat just to have $1M in paper money, would you?

No, but I want to build a nice house, so I'd have to pay tax when I go to do that.

Yes the relation risk-benefit is on our side, we can lose lets say 50% of our investment but if it goes up, it will go up 10x or even 100 times multiplied our bitcoins.  ;D

And anyway, being a millionaire is not so much these days.
A nice house would already be a big chunk of it...

My 2 cents would be to hold at least 10 Bitcents somewhere and if this takes off you're going to be looking at quite a sum.

If you're being ambitious you don't even need anything more than a single bitcoin.

is 600 bucks worth it? I say yes!

I just can't fathom the free-market allowing thousands of crypto-currency early investors the ability to become millionaires (fiat), but I hope Im wrong.

Whats there to alow ? Bitcoin is independent, who was smart he got on a train and become milionare already. Now we, not so early adopters hope there is still chance for us. Since still not so much people use it, we can still be early adopters.

I really wonder how many people are millionaires.. sure there are some.. but i bet most would of been but sold ages ago.. as i did lol...
if only someone invented a time machine :(

Haha... We all woulg go back to 2010 . :D .
I think many pople did already bocome milioners.

bitcoin price can, and probably will surge, main reason is more and more spread, and the fact on hard cap of 21 mill btc.
and dont forget one thing also; every day there are btcs sent to wrong adress that will never be claimed, they are lost for good, making the supply even smaller, and then there are wallets lost/destroyed and so on..
when another halving happens, its gonna storm money, so sticking to crypto seams pretty smart, even with those price drops we see now and then

cheers

Bitcoin can be divided to a single satpshi and o think there is enough satoshis for everybody. :)

If 1 satoshi becomes $1.000.000 we can always edit the client to allow nanosatoshisi transactions, there is no theoretical divisability limit to bitcoin....

Here's a nice read for you: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_Bitcoin
Courtesy of luke-jr.

Some will hold their bitcoins through all the ups and downs the future will surely bring. They will be millionaires.

But most will sell when the price rises to $1000 or $2000 or $5000. Then they will write a post about how they wish they wouldn't have sold and how they would have been millionaires if they had only held on or bought more when the price was "only" $650.

Why not, there were 29 million millionaires already in the world in 2012, probably more now. What a few thousands more?
Total wealth was 223 trillion in 2012.

It's just with any other innovation.
Think of all the domain investors. There will always be stuff happening which generates a big bunch of millionaires at a time.